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Jodi Arias Defense Opens

Aired January 29, 2013 - 20:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip in Vegas and fall hard. But when the flame burns out, they break up. But it`s then she moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism.

But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his home, shot, stabbed 29 times. And just hours after she admittedly stabbed him to death, she`s literally hopping on top of a brand- new boyfriend. Twenty-seven-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day, even photographing the sex, but just minutes after sex, slashes his throat from ear to ear.

Bombshell tonight. We are live here in Phoenix, Arizona. The defense kicks off its case with Jodi Arias`s lover on the stand. But it backfires. He reveals under oath Arias takes multiple gas cans on her trip to visit Travis. For what? To burn the evidence?

And tonight, we learn Arias anything but bored behind jailhouse bars. She`s got a girlfriend!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Jodi because we were in love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your sex life with Jodi Arias involve wearing women`s underwear?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember the first time you and she had sex, though, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do remember, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she was very aggressive, wasn`t she.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were both aggressive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve putting her in schoolgirl outfits and pigtails?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was pretty aggressive. Do you remember saying anything about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not recall saying that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on her face?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve calling her a whore?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A three-hole wonder?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was always taking photographs, period.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was one incident in the shower where she took a picture, yes, once.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she took a picture of you while were you in the shower, right?



GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. We are live here in Phoenix, Arizona, camped out right in front of the courthouse. The defense finally kicks off its case with Jodi Arias`s lover on the stand. But it backfires. The lover reveals Arias takes multiple gas cans with her on her trip to see Travis. But for what? To burn the evidence?

And tonight, we learn Arias anything but bored behind jailhouse bars. Arias has a girlfriend!

Straight out to Jean Casarez, joining me here at the courthouse. She`s been in court all day long. First of all, I want to talk with the defense kicking off with Arias`s lover, her former lover. And it seems to backfire when he starts talking about gas cans.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, I have to wonder whether the defense regrets putting him on the stand. But on direct examination, the defense was trying to show that this was the real Jodi, someone who was loving, who was kind, who wasn`t jealous and who wasn`t violent.

But then on the cross-examination, we learn she wanted gas cans right before she started her trip to Mesa.

GRACE: And isn`t it true, Matt Zarrell, that she actually got testy when the former lover says, Why do you need so many gas cans? Why are you taking them on a trip?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, in fact, Nancy, prosecutor Juan Martinez made a point of asking repeatedly that Arias got very upset when Brewer challenged Arias about why she wanted these gas cans -- these gas cans, by the way, that she never returned, that she borrowed within less than 24 hours from arriving at Travis Alexander`s home.

GRACE: OK. Let`s take a listen to what happened in court in the last hours. This is a bombshell. And remember, this is the witness that the defense themselves has brought on. They brought on yet another one of Jodi Arias`s lovers. I don`t know how much it really helped them. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was asking you for gas cans in May of 2008, at the very end, so that she could make a trip to Mesa, Arizona. Do you remember that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she made more than one call asking you for these gas cans to make a trip to Arizona, didn`t she.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, in the first part of June of 2008, she called you again asking about these gas cans to go to Mesa, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And during the first time that she brought up this issue, in the end of May of 2008, you asked her, Why do you need these gas cans? Do you remember asking her that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she got really testy with you, didn`t she.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not necessarily testy. She said she needed them. She was taking a long trip.


GRACE: I`ve got to tell you, she really does not translate on the television the way she appears in the courtroom. I have just left the courtroom before I came and sat down right here, and she looks much more frail, more pitiful looking. She looks very demure.

She`s constantly pushing her glasses up. She never really looks up. She looks down all the time. Today she was wearing a kind of a sky, periwinkle blue. She looked very demure, very timid. Of course, she had her seat screwed down really low so she looks even shorter than the female lawyer sitting beside her.

And I noticed also, Jean, that when I believe it was Chris Hughes was on the stand, the defense lawyer was having trouble with him regarding an e-mail exchange he had with Travis Alexander. He was getting very combative with Chris Hughes, who I think he plans to call as his own witness.

CASAREZ: That`s right. And that wasn`t even supposed to be part of the hearing because the jury wasn`t present for this. But Chris Hughes sort of opened the door, and so suddenly, the defense gets a dress rehearsal of what he`s going to call and ask him in front of the jury, which was an e-mail that he sent to Travis saying, you know, Just leave her alone. Let her go on in life because you`re not treating her well, and you don`t want to marry her, so just move on.

GRACE: You know, I noticed that the defense was getting combative with Chris Hughes on the stand. That`s never a good sign when your own witness -- when you and your own witness are fighting.

But I got to say I was very surprised with her appearance in the courtroom when I see her in the flesh, as opposed to the way she comes across on TV.

For those of you just joining us, the defense in the last hours has kicked off its case in the Jodi Arias murder one trial, this on the heels of us learning in the last 24 hours that she wanted to plead guilty to murder two. She begged to plead guilty to murder two, swearing under oath that she killed Travis Alexander, that she murdered Travis Alexander.

But when the state refused murder two, would only agree to murder one, suddenly, her defense changed, the truth changed to self-defense.

We are here camped outside the courthouse, and we`re taking your calls. Out to the lines. I believe I`ve got Jimmy in Maryland. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing? Love the show. My question is...

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is what`d she do that`s so horrific? There`s not any other indication or evidence she ever done anything like this before in the past?

GRACE: You mean ever murdered somebody, Jimmy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, as far as being violent, any violent action.

GRACE: You know, that`s interesting that you would ask that because we have evidence dating back to the time that she was just 5 years old that she took a baseball bat to her little brother and beat him in the head with it, OK?

I think that`s compelling. I mean, my twins are 5 years old and they bicker back and forth, but to this date, one has not taken a baseball bat and hit the other in the head.

Now, do I have evidence that she`s murdered somebody else? No. But I think -- and I`m going to go out to Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining me. And go ahead, let`s bring in the lawyers, too. Unleash Randy Kessler, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney in Atlanta, along with Caryn Stark, psychologist in New York.

Caryn, the fact that she beat her little brother in the head with a baseball bat, that`s violent, but then not murdering somebody but slashing the tires, not only of him, of his tires, but the girlfriend`s tires, too, then slashing his tires again, stalking the new people he was dating, sending them scary e-mails that are absolutely traced back to her, hacking into his e-mail and bank account -- it`s proven that she did that. I find those to be acts of violence.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: They are certainly acts of violence. They`re acts of aggression, Nancy. And this is a very aggressive person. When you see that she bashed her baby brother over the head, you are looking, when you`re talking about a psychopath, to see early behavior indicative of violence. And that is not the norm, ever.

GRACE: You know, out to you, Jean Casarez, what was the purpose of putting the lover on the stand when it totally backfired with the gas cans? She was planning to burn the evidence, possibly even the body.

CASAREZ: Or maybe with those gas cans, she did two fill-ups in Pasadena, California, one to get her to Mesa. The gas cans got her to Salt Lake so there would be no evidence, no record at all that she went to Mesa. That`s called premeditation, as you know, Nancy. Now your other question was what?

GRACE: I was asking about why they even put the lover on the stand to start with.

CASAREZ: Yes. I think -- I think to portray her as a victim, that this was a normal relationship, and then once she became under the control, as a victim of Travis Alexander, she became a totally different person.

GRACE: I don`t know if I`m buying into it. Unleash the lawyers again. I`ve got Randy Kessler, veteran trial lawyer, veteran defense attorney Renee Rockwell.

All right, Renee, it doesn`t bode well when you kick off your case with yet another lover -- not that there`s anything wrong with that. I`m not the church lady. I don`t care who she sleeps with.

But when you bring a parade of lovers in front of a jury and then you bring all the pornographic photos of her vagina and her booty -- and I will say no more -- at a certain point when the jury hears all this, it`s really going to be hard for them to believe that she has somehow been taken advantage of. And then the lover blurts out that she got all these gas cans.

I mean, Renee, you go on a long trip to Louisiana all the time. I`ve never once known you to put six or seven gas cans full of gas in your trunk.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, obviously, it shows premeditation. But one thing you have to remember is if she`s a battered woman, the premeditation is all part of it. She feels helpless. She feels like she can`t get out of the relationship.

GRACE: Put her up, please!

ROCKWELL: And premeditation is allowed when you`re using a battered woman`s defense or battered person`s defense.

GRACE: OK. Just hold on.

ROCKWELL: So she thinks she cannot get out of the relationship...

GRACE: Before we go so far out on that limb we can`t get back to the tree, Jean Casarez, how far away from Travis Alexander had she moved? How many hundreds of miles?

CASAREZ: She moved from Palm Desert, California, to Mesa, which is about eight hours away, and that was after they broke up. That`s when she moved to be so very close to him.

GRACE: OK. So Randy Kessler, she lives eight hours away. She is pursuing him. She is driving 1,000 miles to get to him. So please explain to me how does she feel that he was controlling her and she couldn`t get away? She moved away. She`s the one chasing him.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, geographic distance does not keep someone from controlling somebody. If she felt controlled, she has the right to feel the way she felt. The question is not...

GRACE: Put him up!

KESSLER: -- how did she do it. This is not a question did she kill him, it`s a question of...

GRACE: Put him up!

KESSLER: It`s not even a question of why she killed him, it`s a question can we now humanize her? She`s been portrayed as...

GRACE: I`m ordering a psych. I`m ordering a psych exam on the two of you.


GRACE: Here you see this girl slashing his tires. He`s not slashing her tires. She`s calling all the women that he dates and basically threatening them. She is not a battered woman. If anything, he`s the one that`s feeling manipulated, not her.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, they`re trying to save her life. It`s not a guilt/innocence. But this is a mental defense.

GRACE: You mean truth?

ROCKWELL: This is a death penalty case. They`re trying to save her life.

GRACE: Oh, so that makes it OK that they`re lying, they`re lying!



GRACE: As we touch down and make our way to the jail tonight...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can get reading material on our library.

GRACE: I doubt pretty seriously they`re spending a lot of time...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how crisp and clean that is and how...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we make up our own games. We play charades or we, you know, play Twister. Not really much we can do.

GRACE: It smells like elementary school in here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two meals a day here. The first one will be a cold sack. So this one has peanut butter, bread, citrus and a snack.

GRACE: It`s good stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fresh baked bread every day.

GRACE: Do they get this every single day, the same thing for lunch?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five days a week is peanut butter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, we don`t really have any -- I mean, we have family, but we have to become family in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re all in jail. I`m sure they`re not happy being in jail, so naturally, they`re going to support their fellow inmate.


GRACE: We are camped out right in front of the courthouse. And let me tell you, it`s three three-ring circus going on in that courtroom. No matter what happens, Arias sits there all bent over and looking down, far from the sexy blond bombshell image that she projected when she got Travis Alexander hook, line and sinker.

The defense kicked can off today with her former lover, but it all backfired when he says that she borrowed multiple gas cans to take with her full of gas on her trip to see Travis Alexander. For what? To burn the evidence, or as Jean Casarez has theorized, so she wouldn`t have to stop for gas? There would be no trace of her having been around Travis Alexander. That lengthens the time of premeditation.

We are taking your calls, but you just saw that video of us behind bars all day yesterday talking to inmates, talking to jailhouse officials.

And this was one bombshell that we learned. Jodi Arias is anything but bored behind bars. In fact, she`s got a girlfriend, according to sources that we found yesterday.

Matt Zarrell, why is that significant?

ZARRELL: Well, because I think part of it, Nancy, Arias has the ability to charm her way into any relationship and charm her way out of any relationship. And again, we see here a source close to Arias telling us she has charmed again into another relationship, but this time with the same sex, with a female.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped out here in front of the courthouse. We`ve all just come out of the courtroom a couple hours ago.

A lot going on in the courtroom today. The defense kicks off its case, but it was with a sputter. They bring on Arias`s former lover on the stand, who admits, one, that she was aggressive toward him during sex, and two, that she insisted on taking multiple gas cans with her to visit Travis Alexander. For what, to burn the evidence?

We also learned yesterday during our sojourn behind bars at the Maricopa County courthouse that Arias is far from bored. She`s got a girlfriend from behind bars.

Interesting about that. Matt Zarrell was describing meeting people, charming them, always somehow to use them in one way or another.

Back to Jean Casarez. On the stand today, Brewer describing her being aggressive during sex. How did he feel about continuing to pay part of the mortgage and all of the utility bills when Arias could no longer pay for them?

CASAREZ: He didn`t act like it bothered him. But the timeline is very interesting here. They meet in 2001. They start to date. They move in together. And in 2006- remember, she meets Travis June of 2006. Well, after that, the Mormon missionaries started coming to their home in Palm Desert. She then totally changed, saying, no more cussing. We can`t have sex because I`m saving myself for marriage. She got breast implants during that time. And then by fall 2006, they basically had broken up.

GRACE: Now wait a minute. When the Mormon missionaries started coming around the same time as the breast implants, had she already met Travis Alexander?

CASAREZ: Yes. She met him in June 2006, according to opening statements.

GRACE: So bottom line, Jean, she leaves Brewer because she meets Travis Alexander, and immediately after living with Brewer for a period of years, suddenly announced she`s, quote, "saving" herself for her husband. OK. I didn`t know that that was, you know, a renewable resource.

We are taking your calls. Out to Tony in Colorado. Hi, Tony. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. Great show. I have a question...

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks. Was Jodi an active member in the church? I know she lived out in California. Was she -- you know, was she a member there? You know, was she -- was she...

GRACE: You mean, was she a Mormon there? Let`s find out. Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter,

Mormonism has taken center stage in this case. What do we know? When did she become a Mormon?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Right after she met Travis. In fact, it`s because of Travis that she became a Mormon. And as her ex- boyfriend said on the stand today, she really wasn`t religious before that. You know, they spoke about spirituality but nothing else.

As soon as she met Travis, found out he was a Mormon, she converted.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I met Jodi in the fall of 2001. I was employed as a food and beverage director at Ventani (ph) Inn and Spa in Big Sur, and Jodi came as an applicant applying for a job as a server.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did she present herself during her interview with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outstanding. She was on time. She interviewed well. She was dressed appropriately.


GRACE: We are live here outside the courthouse as the defense kicks off its case in the defense of Jodi Arias, charged with murder one in the stabbing and shooting death of her lover, Travis Alexander.

A lot of tears in the courtroom today that I observed. I observed not only that, but Jodi Arias appearing very meek and mild and demure, all hunched down, looking frail and pitiful beside her female defense lawyer. I don`t know if the jury is going to believe that.

One of the first witnesses on the stand by the defense, her former lover. I want to go to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," in court today, along with Jean Casarez.

Beth, I don`t think that the lover helped that much, and neither did Searcy.

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION (via phone): Well, you know what he did, Nancy? She`s never been violent and you know, he certainly brought up that they had a premarital sexual relationship but that she changed. He said she changed a lot in the fall of 2006 when she started becoming a Mormon. So that part didn`t help so much because he said she started to become very irresponsible and she wasn`t paying the household expenses and she just was becoming a very different person.

Now the defense may turn that around and say that`s because Travis Alexander entered her life and he is the one who was changing her. So that`s what the defense may do with that.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute, Beth. Wait a minute, Beth. So Travis Alexander is the reason Jodi Arias was not paying her bills and was having her lover pay all her bills?

You know, to me, it`s just another example of Arias using yet another man. You mean this guy still hasn`t figured out that he got used?

KARAS: Yes, well, they may be making that argument, Nancy, because she was getting involved with prepaid legal and Travis was, you know, a big factor in that. And prepaid legal was making her believe, at least this is what the defense seems to be saying, that she was going to get her fortune, find fortune with the company if she worked hard.

But she really never made very much money at all selling this legal insurance. So it didn`t really work out for her, but I think the defense will say she was kind of under Travis Alexander`s spell, that she never exhibited any violent behavior, anything like what she`s being accused of in this case and admits to, by the way, of course. Admits to.

GRACE: Beth, you`re cutting out on me.

Let me go back to you, Jean, while I get Beth`s satellite straight.

Jean, bottom line, the lover says that she was aggressive during sex with him, that she welched on money she owed, and this went on for a period of months that he carried the mortgage, he paid all the bills. Basically she was living with him while she was dating -- and I`ll put that euphemistically -- Travis Alexander. So we see her using yet another guy and then the gas can information came in.

What about Searcy? There`s something about him that doesn`t all fit together for me, Jean. What was the point of Gus Searcy`s testimony?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, this was the first witness for the defense out of the box, and I think the defense wanted to set the standard that she was a conservative girl. Every time he saw her, she had high necks and long sleeves. She was quiet. She wasn`t violent. They`re just trying to show that contrast before she started being abused --

GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense.

CASAREZ: -- they say by Travis.

GRACE: I mean, Jean, Jean -- let me see Jean, please.

Jean, I appreciate Gus Searcy saying that she dressed conservatively but he only saw her, like, four or five times and all of those but one it was a work related function. I mean, Jean, every time I see you, you`re dressed up to the nose. You`ve got a turtleneck up to your eyebrows. How do I know that you don`t wear mini skirts and stripper boots when I`m not with you? How does he know?

CASAREZ: Well, let me -- let me tell you this, OK. Gus Searcy is in his motor home in Las Vegas. She moves from Mesa.


CASAREZ: She goes to Gus Searcy in Las Vegas. She`s there. And they`re sitting on the sofa, she gets a phone call. It`s Travis. She goes outside, 40 minutes later, comes in, is crying and a shaken mess.

The defense is trying to show she`s trying to move away, who calls her? Travis. She didn`t call Travis, he calls her. They`re trying to show once again through this witness that she is under his control.

GRACE: You know what, Jean, that was very wise of them to do that, but if I were the prosecution here I would argue to the jury, how do I know that he wasn`t calling her and saying, listen, this is the last time. I`m warning you, you leave me alone and quit calling my girlfriend? How do I know that`s not what he said on the other end of the phone?

CASAREZ: That`s a good point. It was not brought out on cross- examination, though.

GRACE: Uh-oh. Well, that`s a seed that needs to be planted if the prosecution wants to win this case.

Everybody, we are taking your calls. Out to Laura in Idaho.

Hi, Laura. What`s your question?

LAURA, CALLER FROM IDAHO: Hi, Nancy. I love your show and I love you, and your children are just so precious, and thank you are for all that you do.

GRACE: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

LAURA: I`m just -- the thought of what she could have had in her mind with those gas cans is so frightening to me because we know she had not good plans with that. But I was just wondering we`ve heard about the one boyfriend she went in and race to after she did murder this one and I`ve not heard of the new one, the 50-something-year-old man.

How -- I`m just curious, when did they decide to bring him in and is he --

GRACE: You`re talking about Gus Searcy?

LAURA: Yes. Is he someone they`re trying --

GRACE: OK. Gus Searcy I don`t think ever -- I don`t think he ever dated her. Gus Searcy. Now they brought in Brewer who was her former boyfriend, her former lover, that she was living with when she started dating Travis Alexander. He wasn`t in his 50s. Gus Searcy is in his 50s. They did not date. It was a professional relationship. I believe he even was with her on four occasions.

They were all work related except one when she stopped by his motor home on her way when she was moving. I think they brought him on largely because he witnessed this conversation that allegedly was with Travis Alexander, the murder victim, in which she started crying. We don`t know really what happened on that phone conversation. I think that was the purpose of his testimony.

Everybody, we are taking your calls but joining me right now is Jensen Clifford, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander.

Jensen, thank you for being with us.

JENSEN CLIFFORD, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thank you for having me, Nancy. It`s wonderful to be here.

GRACE: Jensen, question. I know that you and Travis Alexander were very, very dear friends. What, if anything, did you know about Jodi Arias?

CLIFFORD: Yes, Travis and I were good friends. I had actually -- and it`s very possible I met him after him and Jodi were together. But I never heard her or never heard about her. I never met her.

GRACE: So even in light of your relationship with Travis, he did not loop you in on Jodi Arias. I wonder why. I find that very, very interesting.

CLIFFORD: I find it interesting, too. The first time I ever heard her name was when -- was after the murder. I`ve known -- I`ve heard since then that other friends who had known Travis longer than me had said, yes, we`ve heard of her or we knew her, this and that, but I personally had never heard of her. And I met him in 2006 --

GRACE: That`s really interesting.


GRACE: That`s really interesting.

Everybody, also taking your calls, Jensen Clifford, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. But he never introduced him. He never mentioned her to him. Why?

As we go to break, everybody, we are here outside the phoenix courthouse bringing you the very latest. But I want to tell you the "Family Album" is back with your photos from iReporting tonight.

Here are our Oklahoma friends, the Whistlers. They love the movies, the OKC Thunder, and the OU football.

Share photos through iReport family album at Then just click on "Nancy`s Family Album."



GRACE: This is one of the locations where Jodi Arias has her rec time every day, and I imagine that this is where she mulls what her new defense is going to be. Gets a little sun out here. Gets tanned, rested and relaxed to go back into court.

So we`ve often wondered where she gets her ideas of her various defense theories. Here you have it. This is where the magic happens for Jodi Arias.


GRACE: We are taking your calls here in Phoenix, Arizona. Joining me right now, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation.

You know, Marc, I don`t know if you`re familiar with this or not, but I have gotten my hands on some of Jodi Arias` doodles, as they`re euphemistically called. This one is of Snow White. We know that her expert -- I think it`s Alyce LaViolette -- has a speech that she gives, was Snow White a battered woman? Which really tends to lessen her credibility. But these doodles, courtroom doodle drawings are going for nearly $2,000, Marc.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, this kind of activity is called murderabilia. And it`s a subgenre of collectibles associated with and produced by criminals and other violent criminals. It has absolutely no intrinsic value whatsoever beyond the fact that it was created by killers. Therefore, all the profits realized from the sale of murderabilia which incidentally goes to the seller and to the murderer and their family is based on the crime and the publicity generated by the crime.

So I think the bottom line is, you shouldn`t be able to rob, rape, and murder, and then turn around and make a buck from it.

GRACE: You know, Marc, I was very put off when I saw that these are online on eBay for sale and they`re actually fetching a pretty penny.

I want to go back to Jensen Clifford, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander`s.

Jensen, you knew Travis through the church, correct?

CLIFFORD: Yes, yes. We were in the same ward together.

GRACE: What do you make of Arias` claim that Travis Alexander beat her?

CLIFFORD: It is honestly the most ridiculous thing. I have never known a more levelheaded, calm, mature man. The first time I heard that he had beat her, I thought, are you -- are you kidding me? That`s not possible. He -- if there was any kind of confrontation that he needed to have with someone, it was never even a confrontation. It was him explaining, saying very calmly, you know, let`s understand this together and let`s work out this problem.

There was -- I`ve never seen him fly off the handle or even get overly emotional or overly angry. To me it`s ridiculous that he would -- just the thought of him abusing somebody.

GRACE: And, you know, to Dr. Vincent Dimaio, former chief medical examiner, Bexar County, joining me out of San Antonio.

Dr. Dimaio, here`s the deal. He gets 29 stab wounds and a shot to the head including nine stabs to the back? And she has a couple of scratches on her hands. Sounds like she`s the aggressor. I mean, if she was getting beaten, wouldn`t there be more than that? Why is he dead and she has -- she has a couple of scratches on her fingers. That`s it. How can that be self-defense? I don`t believe it.

DR. VINCENT DIMAIO, M.D., FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BEXAR COUNTY, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It doesn`t make any sense. He`s had very severe, vicious attack. He was attacked from the front and probably initially. Then he was stabbed multiple times in the back, turned over, his throat cut, and then shot because, you know, the shot -- the gunshot looks like the last injury incurred.

And why would you cut a person`s throat and then throw them on to their front and then stab them multiple times in the back? So I think the last two things were the cutthroat and gunshot wound. And he had defense wounds.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Miss Arias as a, quote, "three-hole wonder"?






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve calling her a whore?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A three-hole wonder?



GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to first go to Caryn Stark, and unleash the lawyers, Randy Kessler, Renee Rockwell, and Caryn Stark.

You know, we learned yesterday behind bars that Jodi Arias now has a girlfriend in the jailhouse. It seems as if every person she is with ends up getting used, Caryn Stark, so what is the purpose of a girlfriend behind bars?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Just to keep her company, to have companionship, Nancy. She really does take advantage of people and doesn`t have sincere feelings. And I wanted to say about that whole experience with the ex-lover, her taking pictures of him in the shower is something that she did of Travis, so it`s obviously she has a penchant for that.

GRACE: Interesting, you know, he says she took pictures of him in the shower, that she was aggressive during sex, he was paying all of her bills while she was dating somebody else, and when they asked him, how do you know Jodi Arias, he says, we were in love. So apparently she`s still working her Mojo on him, even with a murder charge staring her in the face.

To Kessler and Rockwell. All right. First to you, Randy Kessler. I just don`t see how logistically this could be self-defense. The last sex photo was taken about 50 seconds before Travis Alexander sustained the first wound, the first slice? Where would she get the weapons in the bathroom? In 50 seconds?

She`d have to be beaten up, run to the kitchen, get a knife and come back to the bathroom? I don`t get it. She had to be carrying the weapons on her, which shows premeditation. That defeats a self-defense claim.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think -- I don`t think her lawyers really think that she can commit the jury with self-defense. That`s something for the jury to hang her hat on. It`s going to come down to her testifying, if she can make herself likeable or if the -- if the prosecution angers her and makes her the victim, the jury can say self- defense.

GRACE: And to the New York control room that insists on showing all the naked photos of Jodi Arias, it`s irrelevant to what we`re talking about right now so you can stop.

All right. Renee, is she going to take the stand?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She has to take the stand, Nancy. We`re trying to save her life as defense attorneys. That`s the plan. She has to take the stand.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army First Lieutenant Salvatore Corma II, 24, Wynona, New Jersey, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal. Mother Trudy, sisters Rose and Donna.

Salvatore Corma II. American hero.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can just arrest you and throw you in jail, but I want to know why. Why did you do this to him?

JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I wouldn`t hurt Travis. He`s done so much for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now you`re kind of in the main --


GRACE: Out to the lines. Irma, Arizona. Hi, Irma, what`s your question?

IRMA, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Nancy, I`ve got a bunch, but I want to know why this girl thinks that Travis is such a threat to her in the shower? He`s got his back to her in the pictures, he`s got his eyes closed, he just looks relaxed. I don`t see how threatening that could be. But I also wanted to know if --

GRACE: Irma -- keep Irma, keep Irma with me. That`s your -- that`s not your question? All right. Go ahead, what`s your question, dear?

IRMA: But there`s more to it, I mean, I`m just wondering, are they going to put the new girlfriend Lisa on the stand, and Lisa is the new girlfriend that Travis was supposed to go to Mexico with? I wonder if she ever had any contact with Jodi, if Jodi ever called her. I mean, just one of the --

GRACE: I believe, as a matter of fact, that they did.

Out to senior reporter with Alexis Tereszcuk is with us. The new girlfriend Lisa is actually on the defense witness list. The state was going to call her and didn`t. What do you make of it? Are they going to call her? I think she could be damning for the defense.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: I think you`re absolutely right, Nancy. They are going to call her. The only thing that she can say is that Travis did not show up because he was supposed to go on a trip with her because Jodi murdered him.

There`s really -- there was no reason for the prosecution to put her on the stand, she had nothing to do with anything. She`s another victim of Jodi`s. But the defense, I`m not really sure why they`re doing it. It doesn`t seem like they have her as somebody who would give information that could help Jodi. She`s probably somebody that they`re just fishing for with the rest of them.

GRACE: Well, I can shed some light on that, Alexis. Whenever I would have a witness that I ended up not using when I was prosecuting, the defense would immediately think, oh, there must be some nefarious reason the state is not using the witness. We`ll call them. There must be something there for us if the state doesn`t want them.

That could be a simple answer. But I would be very careful about calling her to the stand if I were the defense because who knows what bombshell she may have. For all I know, Jodi Arias may have threatened her, too, Alexis.

Everybody, right now, a special good night from Arizona and Missouri friends, Danielle and Colleen. Aren`t they beautiful?

"DR. DREW" is up next, but I`ll see you tomorrow night right here from the courthouse, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.