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Victim`s Ex-girlfriend Testifies for Jodi Arias Defense

Aired January 30, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Is the Jodi Arias defense strategy back firing? Day two of the defense case in her high-profile murder trial brings victim Travis Alexander`s ex-girlfriend to the stand. She says Travis cheated on her with Jodi Arias, the defendant.

But still, no one heard any evidence of Travis ever hitting Jodi. Where on earth is this self-defense argument?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): It`s the battle of the exes in the Jodi Arias murder trial. After Jodi`s ex testified he fell hard for Jodi, Travis Alexander`s ex takes the stand and says she discovered Travis was cheating on her with Jodi. And that Travis sometimes made her feel dirty.

But does that tell the whole story? And do jurors need a score card to keep up with all this canoodling? Will this prove Jodi was sexually degraded by Travis?

Plus we`ll talk exclusively to Jodi`s high school BFF about the guys Jodi dated in high school.

And we`re taking your calls.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Were you shocked to learn that he was not a virgin?


WILLMOTT: While he continued this facade of being a good and virginal Mormon man...

DIADONI: He was cheating on me.

WILLMOTT: Do you know who he was cheating with?

DIADONI: Jodi Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than marry him. She wanted to be him. She wanted to possess him. She wanted to know every breath he took.

DIADONI: As he was talking to everyone, she would be all over him.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: There was sort of a breach of trust in our relationship.

WILLMOTT: It was a way for him to let off some sexual tension. Did that make you feel used and dirty?

DIADONI: I did say that.

WILLMOTT: In reality, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight an explosive day of tears and sexual confessions in the Jodi Arias courtroom as the victim`s ex-girlfriend testifies about her steamy make-out sessions with Travis Alexander and how he cheated on her. But it was an unexpected autopsy photo that sent the courtroom into an uproar.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.

The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat ear to ear, and shot him in the face. But she claims it was all done in self-defense.

Today, as they cross-examine Travis` ex-girlfriend -- there she is going to the stand -- prosecutors pulled a stunner. The prosecutor suddenly whipped out a surprise and extremely gruesome autopsy photo of Travis almost decapitated by Jodi`s knife attack. The picture was far more graphic than these and sent Travis` sister running from the courtroom sobbing. Here`s how it all went down.


JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: With regard to everything that he did to you and how you feel and how you know of the circumstances and the situation that you were in, with regard to exhibit 205, do you think in your mind, because you were the one that was experiencing this...



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Completely irrelevant.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We didn`t show you the photo but that was Travis` family member running out sobbing. Call me: 1-877-JAM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.

Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. Selin, you were in court for this emotional outburst. Take us there. Tell us what happened.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: We were listening to the prosecution cross-examine Travis`s ex-girlfriend on the stand, and it was very unexpected. It was a surprise move by the prosecution. And all of a sudden he shows that autopsy photo of Travis Alexander with his throat cut, slit from ear to ear. It is the most gruesome autopsy photo that we had seen when the prosecution was giving us their evidence in the trial.

And all of a sudden, the courtroom came to a halt, because the sisters burst out crying. They`re hunched over, and then all of a sudden they got up. And one of the sisters was escorted out by another brother. It was enough to make the courtroom stop and look. All of the jury turned their heads and were looking at the front row at the gallery, at the sisters and the brother crying. They just saw a photo of him...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what about Jodi?

DARKALSTANIAN: Practically beheaded. And Jodi started crying, as well. Jodi turned her head and started crying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it was essentially the prosecutor saying, "Oh, you`ve got a defense witness? I`m going to turn that whole scene into a prosecution win by just showing this horrific photo. It puts everything else that was said into context and makes it look pale by comparison."

Today`s key defense witness, Travis` ex-girlfriend, Lisa Andrews. She`s now married. That was the name she had during her time dating Travis Alexander. She`s an abstinent Mormon, sexually abstinent at the time she`s dating him.

She was brought by the defense to try to paint Travis as a cad and a sexually aggressive man who made her feel dirty and used. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you talk to him that sometime you felt that he wanted you just for you your body?

DIADONI: I did say that in the e-mail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did that make you feel used and dirty?

DIADONI: I did say that in the e-mail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had previously told him to not grab your butt.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And especially not in public.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that he persisted in doing it?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you tell him that you thought it was vulgar and unattractive when a man talks about sex as much as he did?

DIADONI: I did say that in the e-mail.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. But then the prosecution turns it around, saying it was Lisa`s own sexual inexperience -- She was 19 and a virgin -- that led her to misunderstand what was happening when they were making out. Travis and her kissing.

We have to warn you, the language is graphic, but it was said in open court. Listen to this exchange about a steamy make-out session between Travis, the victim, and his girlfriend at the time.


MARTINEZ: And during the time that he was kissing -- and again, not to get too much into this, he achieved an erection, right?


MARTINEZ: You did not massage his erection. Right?

DIADONI: Correct.

MARTINEZ: He did not massage his own erection, correct?

DIADONI: Correct.

MARTINEZ: It was a biological response to your lips, wasn`t it?

DIADONI: Correct.

MARTINEZ: And that, that time, because of your inexperience, you thought that he should have controlled his penis from becoming tumescent or getting big just because he was kissing you. You thought that`s what the problem was, right?

DIADONI: Yes. Yes.

MARTINEZ: And it was because of your inexperience, correct?

DIADONI: Correct.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that exchange certainly had the witness blushing. Let`s debate it with our attorneys. Did this witness work more for the defense or for the prosecution?

Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for; and Anahita Sedaghatfar. Let`s start with Lisa Bloom.

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVO.COM: I don`t think this had anything for the defense at all. I think it`s a big zero for the defense. So he was a sexual guy. I mean, he reacted by kissing a girl by getting an erection. What does that prove?

The defense needs to prove that he was violent towards her. That she was in fear for her life. So far we haven`t even moved a half of an inch in that direction.


ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR: I disagree. Jane, I think today was a good day for the defense. Because they did exactly what we anticipated they were going to do based on their opening, and that is sadly putting Travis Alexander on trial.

And they want to show that he led a double life. That he was not this church-going devout choir boy that the prosecution had those jurors believe. That he was a liar. That he was a cheater. That he was manipulative. That he was possibly a sexual deviant. And this is the Travis Alexander...


SEDAGHATFAR: And this is the Travis Alexander that Jodi was afraid of.

HONOWITZ: All right. If getting an erection makes you a sexual deviant. I mean, if everyone who got an erection was a sexual deviant you`d have to arrest everybody in the country. The bottom line is, this witness...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All the men. All the men, Stacey.

HONOWITZ: All the men.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just want to say that. To be accurate from a biological perspective. But continue on. I liked your point, Stacey.

HONOWITZ: I mean, the fact of the matter is this defense witness did nothing. You know, when you say you feel dirty and used, that`s not the equivalent of slitting someone`s throat and shooting them multiple times. It just doesn`t happen. This prosecutor knows exactly what he has to do.

BLOOM: Bottom line is he didn`t have sex with the woman that didn`t want to have sex. He respected her wishes. He pushed a little bit, but ultimately he respected her wishes. Doesn`t sound like a violent guy to me.

HONOWITZ: He is a horny guy. A horny guy does not make one a victim. I mean, that`s what they proved today. He was horny with a 19-year-old. Big deal. It means nothing. We`re going to have to wait and see what the jurors think.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not all they proved. They proved that he was a liar. That he tried to manipulate her. That he tried to control her. And that he was not this devout Mormon who portrayed himself to be a virgin.

HONOWITZ: But he stopped. He didn`t do it all along. You can be a liar all you want but he didn`t do anything to her. She didn`t take the stand and say, "He manipulated me, forced me, hit me and beat me into submission to have sex." She didn`t say anything like that.

She said, "I was inexperienced. I had a make-out session with him. The guy got an erection. I told him to back off, and that was the end of it."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But -- but...

BLOOM: That was a very human story from a guy who`s struggling to be abstinent but is having a hard time with it, because he`s a red-blooded American male.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she did say that he cheated on her. Lisa Andrews broke up with Travis at one point when she found out that he was cheating on her with Jodi Arias. And she wrote him less than 24 hours this very, this e-mail in which she revealed she was very upset. Listen to this.


DIADONI: He was cheating on me.

WILLMOTT: Do you know who he was cheating with?


WILLMOTT: Who was that?

DIADONI: Jodi Arias.

WILLMOTT: He didn`t tell that you Jodi went with him on that trip, right?

DIADONI: Correct.

WILLMOTT: Did you suspect it?


WILLMOTT: Did you tell him that -- that you were sick of hearing about her?


WILLMOTT: And he told you nothing was going on?


WILLMOTT: But something inside of you felt otherwise?

DIADONI: Yes. And that something inside of me was actually his roommate that told me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Beth Karas, this statement that Travis was cheating on his girlfriend with Jodi Arias goes to a couple of points that the defense wants to make. They said in their open, well, Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret. He`s having sex with her while he`s trying to date these good Mormon girl who are virginal and also, that he was cheating and lying.

So can you elaborate on that, Beth?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Yes. Now this e- mail that the defense tried to get in, and they couldn`t actually get the e-mail in but they could question her extensively about it. We learned because a juror asked a question at the end, one of the written questions, when did you learn -- when did you write that e-mail in relation to learning that Travis was cheating on you with Jodi? She said within 24 hours. So this was an angry e-mail.

And the defense was using this angry e-mail, this three-page e-mail where she lists all these things wrong with him and things that are, were abusive in her eyes. That he was arrogant with her and belittled her and didn`t take her seriously enough and wanted a lot of compliments.

But she said they worked through it all, but she was angry because she had just found out that he had been cheating on her with Jodi Arias. So she admitted, it may be a little exaggerated. That`s my word, but she kind of intimated it was a little exaggerated, because she wrote in anger and she was young.

So that was really important that a juror asked a question to clarify that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re going to play some of those juror questions in a little bit.

But I think the point that Lisa Bloom is making, is absolutely true. I mean, even if he is a cad. Even if he is sexually aggressive. That`s not the same thing as hitting her or beating her up to the point where she feels she can kill him in self-defense, almost decapitating him.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to one of Jodi Arias`s BFFs, best friends from high school. And you know that life is high school. So we`re going to really learn about Jodi`s character. The missing piece to the puzzle, right on the other side of the break. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever notice her being violent or having a violent temper?


MARTINEZ: Do you remember the first time you and she had sex though, right?

BREWER: I do remember, yes.

MARTINEZ: And she was very aggressive, wasn`t she?

BREWER: We were both aggressive.

Became infatuated and fell in love.

MARTINEZ: That`s when the defendant...




DIADONI: Jodi and another female had texted and called several times while we were together. Jodi called numerous times. It`s almost as if she knew we were together at the time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s the murder trial that has captured America`s fascination, because we don`t understand why. Why would this woman we`re looking at right there shoot a man in the face after stabbing him 29 times and slitting his throat ear to ear? She claims self-defense but look at this woman. She sounds so petite, and she sounds so demure when she talks. There`s a missing piece here.

So they say life is high school. Right now we`re going back to high school to Jodi Arias`s high school days in Yreka, California, a small town near the Oregon border. And I`d like to introduce our very special guest. Tina Ross, a very close friend from high school. One of your BFFs, Jodi`s BFF in high school.

Tina, thank you so much for joining us.

CALLER: Thank you for having me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: First of all when you heard that Jodi Arias was accused of this incredibly violent crime, knowing that she was your friend from high school, what was your reaction?

CALLER: I was completely shocked and in disbelief.


CALLER: But it was completely out of character from the Jodi that I knew.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let`s go back to high school. They say life is high school and it`s true. Because who you are -- in high school, I was passing out leaflets and literature and talking politics. So nothing has really changed. I`m still debating things.

What was she like in high school? What group was she in? Did she hang in with the jocks and he cheerleaders or was she with the goths? Or was she -- what was her posse?

CALLER: There was just a small group of us. And, you know, I wouldn`t say we were into sports or anything like that. But, you know, there was just a small group of us.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what -- what were you into? Were you into rock music? Heavy metal music? Did she hang out with clean-cut guys or was she hanging out in high school -- did she date in high school?

CALLER: I can remember a guy that she had dated that was not really in our group of people, and it was, it just blew us all away that she had dated this guy.


CALLER: Because he was more Goth type. And, you know, Jodi was very beautiful, popular.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. So she was not an outcast in high school. She was one of the cool kids, to sort of sum it up?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she strike you as a sociopath or a psychopath? We`ve heard stories when she was waitressing, that she left a cat -- we just heard last night a woman said she left a cat in a room for two weeks without giving the cat any attention after saying she would adopt the cat. Does that strike you as an odd thing for Jodi?

CALLER: Yes. She was a kind, caring, a good sense of humor. She was, you know, a good girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So nothing that would indicate in high school that she would ever be capable of something like this?

CALLER: Definitely not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why did she drop out of school in the 11th grade if she was such a good kid?

CALLER: Probably work and, you know, just start her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean, you were there. You went to high school with her. Why -- were you upset that she dropped out?

CALLER: At that point I was actually in a different school so...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, OK. So it was a little younger that you knew her.

OK, look, give me a clue to her character. I mean, you`re saying she was totally 100 percent normal. Was there any problems with her family? I mean, you know, you describe in our research that her family was sort of in business. A good family that had -- I think they were in what? The restaurant business or something?

CALLER: Yes. They owned a restaurant here locally. Her parents were maybe a little strict on Jodi. You know, she had, like, 6 p.m. curfew where other ones -- you know, other people in the -- in our group of friends could stay out until 8 or 9. Her parents expected high things out of Jodi.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tina -- Tina, do you believe her story that she killed him in self-defense? And if so, why?

CALLER: You know, I do believe that just because she wasn`t a violent person. And I believe there was definitely signs of domestic violence, you know, maybe not the physical abuse from Travis Alexander but definitely sexual and emotional abuse.

And I think Jodi just, she snapped. And in a moment of rage, made a huge mistake.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Snapping, is that self-defense? Or is that somebody getting really angry?

Thank you, Tina. Stay right there if you can. We`d love to keep you on to analyze as we continue on. We`re just getting started. Your calls on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see Jodi have jealousy with women that you came into contact with?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had slashed his tires several times. She had slashed his -- he had dated someone earlier that year. She had slashed her tires.




ARIAS (singing): O holy night the stars are brightly shining. It is the night of our dear savior`s birth.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tonight everybody wondering, is Jodi Arias going to take the stand and sing? Or is she just going to sing behind bars?

The defense case, day two. Is the defense case imploding? Most people think she will not take the stand.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Your question or thought, Jay, Illinois.

CALLER: Hi, Jane.


CALLER: I`ve been watching this for a long time. And when Travis was in high school, he was an introvert. He wore flooded pants. His parents were doing meth.

Don`t you think that maybe he had psychological problems behind that and all of a sudden he becomes the greatest person in the world? Maybe he was fulfilling his fantasies. Maybe he did have a separate life.

I mean, everybody is jumping on his case about maybe he was fulfilling fantasies from way back in high school and Jodi was a beautiful woman. You know, no telling what type of aggression he was trying to do, you know, because of his high-school days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? You raise a very interesting point. Beth Karas, take us back to Travis Alexander`s childhood and his parents and their drug problems. Because we forget, it all starts in childhood.

KARAS: Yes, indeed. You know, it was kind of a rough start for Travis Alexander and his siblings. You know, he has four sisters and three brothers, eight kids all together, and his parents were drug addicts. They passed away. They`re dead now.

But the grandmother was -- raised Travis and a lot of the children. So they had a broken home, drug-addicted parents, and he really was quite the success in his family, because there he was with this beautiful home and he was still in his 20s.

Maybe he did have some issues in his past. But he was -- he had no drugs in his system when he was killed. This is not a man who was a substance abuser.

Did he want compliments? Was he proud of himself? Did he feel, you know, he wanted a good Mormon girl? Yes. For sure.

But if he was an abuser, there would have been something in his record. The police would have found something. And Jodi Arias had ample opportunities to tell people, to report him, to tell the police after Travis died, you know, he`s kind of a violent guy. She never did. She didn`t do anything like that until two years after he was arrested.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I think you`ve hit the nail on the head. But I see it as this case, because they probably don`t have any of that, is trying, attempting to break new ground and say, wherefore we have all these images of them engaged in kinky sex, whereas she was sexually abused, sexually degraded. That equals in their mind -- this is their argument. They want to make that equal battered women syndrome and PTSD, post- traumatic stress disorder. And then they`re going to say that`s why she was in fear for her life, and that`s why she killed.

That`s a lot of leaps. That`s a lot of leaps to make to prove their case for self-defense. We have so much more on the other side.

And at 8, Nancy Grace, live from outside the Jodi Arias courthouse. That`s 8 p.m. right here on HLN. Stay right there. On the other side, more from inside court today, and it was a humdinger.


DIADONI: I broke up with him because I felt like if he wasn`t at a point in his life that he did want to be married, that he should explore other options because I was already at that point.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever refer to Jodi Arias as a stalker of Travis Alexander?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did somebody come into the house unannounced?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi called numerous times. It is almost as if she knew we were together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had previously told him to not grab your butt.


JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Did he ever touch you there again?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that he persisted in doing it?

In Jodi, he found somebody who was easily manipulated and controlled; someone who would provide him with that secretive sexual relationship.

MARTINEZ: He never at any time forced you to do anything sexual that you did not want to do.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: He made it a point to keep walking next to me and keep me engaged in conversation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t speak with him again until the night before he was killed.

MARTINEZ: Do you think it is appropriate to take a knife and slash somebody`s throat?


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Fireworks in court today. Day two of the defense case and we`re starting to see the victim, Travis Alexander, was quite the ladies` man. Ok.

Lisa Andrews, that was her name; she is now married. But when she took the stand today, she spoke of her time dating Travis Alexander. We`re going to show you a map of all of Travis` women.

Lisa Andrews is a Mormon. Travis met her through the Mormon Church. They broke up, got back together, broke up. Finally they broke up. But he cheated on her with Jodi Arias, the defendant.

Then there is Mimi Hall, another young woman that Travis met through the Mormon Church. They went on a couple of dates. He was planning to take her on vacation to Cancun, Mexico when Jodi Arias killed Travis.

And of course, there`s Jodi who`s on trial for murdering Travis.

So here`s the thing. At one point in early 2008, Travis was pretty much juggling all three women tame. So let`s bring in three other women, our expert legal panel: Stacey Honowitz, Lisa Bloom and Anahita Sedaghatfar to debate whether showing that somebody -- ok, let`s give that to the defense. He is a ladies` man. He was a ladies` man.

What does that have to do with shooting somebody, stabbing them 29 times and slitting their throat? We`ll start with Stacey Honowitz.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, you just did the prosecution closing argument, Jane. That`s exactly what the prosecutor is going to say. You`re never going to get a jury instruction, ladies and gentlemen, that says if you`re a cheater then you deserve to die. And that`s exactly what the defense is trying to say. He`s a cheater. He`s a philanderer. He has a lot of women. He is horny. He likes to have sex, and he is really a Mormon. Ergo, she was working in self-defense.

That is what the prosecution will say and quite frankly, the defense today made no head way in their self-defense claim.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Anahita Sedaghatfar, your thoughts on that?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: My thoughts are no one is claiming because this guy was a cad or a playboy that he deserved to be killed. Jane, the issue here is self-defense. And in order to prove self-defense, the defense is going to have to show those jurors that Travis Alexander was somebody that Jodi Arias feared.

And how are they going to do that? They are going to do that by presenting evidence to show what he was really like. That he was a deviant. That he was controlling. That he was abusive; and that when he lunged at her that she reasonably feared for her life. That is the point that the defense is trying the make to those jurors.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, though, it`s like they`re on the first stop of a thousand-mile journey and they don`t seem to get past that first stop.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Well, this is the first time I`ve heard that a 30-year-old guy who wants heterosexual sex is a deviant. I mean that`s news to me. I don`t think anybody is a deviant. If they want to have sex, they want to have sex. I don`t see what that has to do with anything.

I think so far the defense in this case is an insult to the jury`s intelligence. I`m surprised the judge allowed all of this in. I think the only reason the judge did is because this is a murder case. There are serious stakes and consequences here. The judge said, all right, you know, I`m going to bend over backwards and let the defense put in what they want to but the jury is not going to fall for any of this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A friend of Travis Alexander`s and also she knew Jodi. Her name is Desiree Freeman. She took the stand today. She talked about she took a road trip with her brother and Jodi and Travis and she said that Travis was acting a little strange. They pull over. Jodi is a photographer, to take some pictures, he drives away and leaves Jodi there. And then when she finally gets back in the car, Jodi makes the comment "not funny" and Travis` response was shocking to this witness.


DESIREE FREEMAN, WITNESS: His response was very -- stark I would say. It seemed a little over the top for the encounter.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So this woman who is a Mormon didn`t seem to want to be a defense witness. She didn`t seem too eager. She is admitting that she was shocked -- Jean Casarez, correspondent, "In Session" -- because Travis was rude to Jodi or maybe disrespectful when they were on a road trip together.

They also established that at the time when they were supposedly broken up, Travis and Jodi were traveling to places like the Grand Canyon and Sedona together and they were acting like a couple. Does that fit into the defense saying she was Travis` dirty little secret?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. I think the whole point of Lisa Andrews, yes, they wanted to dirty up Travis. But I think more than anything they wanted to lay the foundation of the state of mind of Jodi Arias. That she was that person that was kept behind the scenes, in the woodwork, the good girl was the girlfriend that he portrayed to everybody else but he took these secret trips with Jodi Arias.

But also in regard to any angry words that Travis had for anybody including Jodi, under the law that does not allow someone to then believe as a reasonable person that you`re going to be killed or seriously bodily injured and you have a right to then attack them. Words alone will not do it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go out to the phone lines. Gigi, Texas, your question or thought -- Gigi.

GIGI, TEXAS (via telephone): Yes, Jane, I would like to know why is the jury not able to hear the entire story that`s going on like we do? How can they make a fair judgment with only hearing half?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh -- that is one great question. Got to bring back the legal panel here. Lisa Bloom, this is why so often we are dead wrong when we predict the outcome of a case. We`re hearing all this stuff. We`re talking like to Tina Ross, a close high school friend of Jodi Arias and we`re hearing all this, that and the other and we`re talking, we`re hearing this. The jury is not hearing any of that nor should they.

BLOOM: Right. Because the rules of evidence are there to protect all of our rights and people can`t introduce evidence in court that is not directly relevant to an issue in the case. So someone`s lengthy background is probably not going to be relevant. We can`t have hearsay. We can`t have evidence that`s not authentic indicated meaning we can`t be sure what it is. And those rules are there to protect all of us.

Also, trials would go on for a year and a half if we let all this stuff in. So the judge is trying to keep it right to the issues at hand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tina Ross, close high school friend and family friend with Jodi. You say you were shocked by this. Now, when you see her behavior in court, when you see her now wearing glasses with the dark hair, then you see the old pictures of her as a bleached blond. I mean what goes through your mind? Do you see -- is this the person that you knew in high school? Or is this somebody like you go on Facebook and you look at an old high school buddy and go "Oh my God, what happened to them?"

TINA ROSS, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS (via telephone): She seems almost like depressed. It doesn`t seem like the Jodi that I knew. I can tell that she has been traumatized. You know, she seems like an abused person to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tina, do you think she is going to take the stand in her own defense?

ROSS: I don`t know. I don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an honest answer. Neither do we; maybe even Jodi doesn`t know if she`s going to take stand. Maybe they haven`t decided that yet.

We`ve seen Jodi`s paintings going for hundreds of dollars on eBay. Tomorrow right here on this show, we`re going to talk to Jodi`s former art teacher. Yes, she is a pretty good artist. Look at some of her color drawings. That is an exclusive interview right here 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

But we`re far from done tonight. On the other side, a clinical psychologist who analyzed today`s explosive court developments.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were called to testify in Miss Arias`s behalf, would you be happy about that?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she murdered my friend in cold blood.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re hearing more and more about potentially dangerous ingredients in the beauty products we slather on our bodies. You know a hundred ingredients on the back of the bottle, you don`t know what those ingredients are.

My alternative is I make my own: make up remover, perfume, body lotion and essentially what I do is almond oil, very simple. I pour that in and then I use essential oils like tea tree oil and rosemary and lavender. And I mix it all up and put it in various bottles so that I can go on trips, I can go exercise.

People always ask me, what are you wearing? And I say I made it myself.




VERONICA, FORMER CO-WORKER OF JODI ARIAS: Travis was her one and only love. She had this whole life planned out with him with children and the white picket fence and forever and all eternity. This was the only man she would ever be with. Scary I tell you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. So she wanted to marry him.

VERONICA: Marry him? More than marry him. She wanted to be him. She wanted to possess him. She wanted to know every breath he took.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s one of the callers who knew Jodi Arias, talking about her obsession with Travis Alexander. And she says she wanted to own him.

Well, is Jodi now doing sort of a weird similar thing with her attorney? Today in court, we saw Jodi and her attorney color coordinating. Look at this, all right. She looks likes like a mini me for the attorney. They`re both wearing white. Jodi has brown hair and now bangs and her lawyer has brown and bangs.

And this is the first time that we`ve seen Jodi match up like a little Barbie doll matching up to the big sister. Look at all these similar looks. We`re going to show you some while we talk to a psychologist. Clinical psychologist Dr. Judy Ho -- thank you for your patience -- what does this mean from a psychological standpoint?

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Jane, I think it shows that Jodi maybe a little lost in her own identity. When we hear these stories about her trying to take on Travis` persona, wanted to be him and this mirroring of her attorney, it really shows there is probably a part of Jodi. She is a little bit of a lost child. She doesn`t really know what her own identity is so she takes on the identities of people around her that she likes, that she wants to emulate.

And she is taking on their personality traits as well possibly. And so we see this pattern now between both Travis and her attorney today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Selin Darkalstanian, you`re our senior producer there in court and also our resident fashionista on the show. What are you noticing about Jodi`s looks in court?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Well, she definitely does match her attorney a lot. I mean she is dressing very proper, buttoned- downs and sweaters and she is very put together, I would say. Her clothing is extremely loose on her. She is very, very frail and thin. That is one thing I`ve noticed because when she walks into court, she walks in -- you see her walk across the courtroom and she is definitely lost a lot of weight in court. I can tell you that from the clothes she`s wearing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, in Arizona jurors can ask witnesses questions. It is bizarre. But yes, today the jury had a whole bunch of questions for Travis` ex-girlfriend Lisa. Listen to these juror questions and then you tell me if you think the jurors are buying Jodi`s claims that Travis sexually abused and degraded Jodi.


WILLMOTT: Did you ever refer to Jodi Arias as a stalker of Travis Alexander?


WILLMOTT: Did Travis ever call you names?


WILLMOTT: Did you personally feel threatened by Travis?


WILLMOTT: Was Travis ever abusive to you?


WILLMOTT: Did he ask you to have sex with him?


WILLMOTT: Did you feel pressured to do anything?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, what does that say in term of what the jury is thinking right now?

HONOWITZ: Well, I think the jurors want to know all of the questions that we`ve been asking. Where is the claim for self-defense? You`re putting a defense witness on to basically say that he is aggressive, that she had no other choice and we`re not hearing any of that from the witness. That`s what they want to know.

Where is the self-defense? If he didn`t do anything to you, how are we ever going to buy into it? So it`s my feeling as a prosecutor that those questions were quite telling. We want to know, where is the violence? Where`s the aggression? Where`s the name calling? And she had all those answers. She said it never happened to her. And I think this is a real hole in the defense`s case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, we`re going to continue to debate it and we`re taking your calls.


WILLMOTT: Did you talk to him about that sometimes you felt that he wanted you just for your body?

ANDREWS: I did say that in the e-mail.

WILLMOTT: Did that make you feel used and dirty?

ANDREWS: I did say that in the e-mail.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for our "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to Kajun -- you`re raging. Cocobutter -- you are sweet. And, oh, Critter, you are just the best. Kismet, look at that. Love to scratch your belly. Look at that sweetie.



WILLMOTT: Did Travis claim to be a virgin?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he did. We made jokes about it.

WILLMOTT: Did he seem happy to be a virgin.


WILLMOTT: And did he seem proud?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: A friend who is also a Mormon says Travis said he was a virgin. According to the Mormon faith you`re not supposed to get into any tempting situations that would break the law of chastity -- chastity. I`m saying it`s bad for me.

Obviously Travis did break the law of chastity, but that`s not a crime. Breaking the law of chastity is a very different thing from being sexually abusive and being violent.

I want to bring in my expert panel, Lisa Bloom. I think they`re going to try to make the leap, oh, you had kinky sex with her that means you`re sexually abusive, that means you`re a batterer, that means I can kill you.

BLOOM: It`s too many leaps. The jurors can draw on their own common sense. There`s a lot of people who try to abstain from sex for religious reasons who are unable to do it. It really is completely irrelevant in this case.

By the way, I don`t think she`s going to stand because if her attorney put her on the stand, her attorney would be suborning perjury and it`s unethical for us as attorneys to do that, to put somebody on who you know is going to lie. So it`s going to be interesting to see whether she takes the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re telling me you think that they wouldn`t have put Casey Anthony on the stand?

BLOOM: They didn`t. Well, I mean --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They didn`t, but --


BLOOM: Go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, you bring up a good point. I mean when you`re dealing with a client who is a pathological liar, are you supposed to just accept everything that they say, let them take the stand and lie?

BLOOM: You are ethically forbidden as an attorney from putting a client on the stand who you know or reasonably believe is going to lie. So in the criminal justice system there`s a whole procedure for that where if the client wants to testify, they go up there and just talk and the attorney sits down and doesn`t ask any questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. More on the other side. Great explanation, Lisa, thank you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Psychologist Judy Ho, final thoughts?

HO: I want to address the defense`s presentation of her as a conservative, nice girl in her work life and in a past relationship. Just because she was that in a past relationship doesn`t mean that she can`t be capable of something violent in a subsequent relationship.

In mental health problems we have a (inaudible) stress model. Her psychopathic tendencies could have been latent and then when there`s an extreme trigger that`s when it comes out. And so I don`t really think the defense got anywhere today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, doctor. Please come back. I love your analysis.

Thank you, fantastic panel.

Nancy next from Arizona.