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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Jodi Arias Reveals Details of Sex Life
Aired February 06, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: An explosive, X-rated day in court as Jodi Arias reveals graphic details about the nature of her sex life with Travis Alexander and what she claims he did to her right after he baptized her. Is she a victim or is she a vixen using the sex abuse excuse?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias back on the stand with more X-rated shockers, telling jurors Travis Alexander`s sexual demands made her feel like a used piece of toilet paper and a prostitute.
The defense paints Travis as a hypocrite, claiming he had painful sex with Jodi right after baptizing her. So, did Jodi snap and kill him for sexually humiliating her? What impact is all this embarrassing testimony having on the jury? We`ll show you the biggest moments from court today and debate it. Plus, we`re taking your calls.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. He spun me around. He bent me over the bed.
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: While he was supposed to be this virginal Mormon man who didn`t want to have any type of relationship with Jodi and she just wouldn`t leave him alone, in this phone call he talks about his fantasies.
ARIAS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) He did what he called -- at that time he called it grinding.
I trusted what I was told by him, so I didn`t feel like we were sinning.
WILLMOTT: Were you shocked to learn that he was not a virgin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ARIAS: He took out, and you take back (ph). And I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, unbelievable triple-X-rated stories straight from Jodi Arias herself.
The accused cold-bloodied murderer says her ex-boyfriend repeatedly sexually degraded her in the most painful of ways, but is it enough to prove to a jury she killed Travis Alexander in self-defense?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat from ear-to-ear, and shot him in the face, but she claims it was all done in self-defense.
Jodi shocked the entire courtroom when she explained how Travis baptized her into the Mormon church in the morning and then brought her home and pushed her to have kinky sex just hours later.
We have to warn you: this is very graphic material, but it is what Jodi said in open court, and it`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was sexually degraded and abused by Travis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: We were kissing, and I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. Kissing got more passionate, more intense, and then he spun me around. He bent me over the bed. He began to have anal sex with me.
KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you say anything? Did you tell him no?
ARIAS: No.
NURMI: Was it pleasurable for you, physically?
ARIAS: That time it was painful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jaws continued to drop in the courtroom. Look at these folks. They`re clearly shocked as Jodi described how Travis regularly made her feel cheap and used. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute, sort of. I was beginning to think that I`ve been very stupid and he got what he wanted, and he wasn`t interested in me anymore, which I felt -- I didn`t feel very good. I felt like a used piece of toilet paper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, was Jodi a sexually degraded woman who had to kill Travis in self-defense, or is she a willing participant in kinky sex, who is now using it to try to get away with a vicious murder?
What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. You were in court during all of this blush-inducing testimony. It makes "Fifty Shades of Grey" look like a tepid teen romance novel. What was it like to be in the courtroom during all of this?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: I have to tell you, Jane, the most important thing I thought that happened today just happened as court was ending.
It`s when Jodi was describing Valentine`s Day. And her and Travis are dating, and he sends her a gift for Valentine`s Day. And she gets home, and it`s on her doorstep. It`s from Travis. She opens the gift, and there`s chocolates on top. And it`s a really -- it`s a cute, thoughtful gift, right? But when she goes underneath, he also sent her little boy`s underwear, alluding to that he is a pedophile.
And right when she said that, I was looking at Travis Alexander`s family sitting in the front row. Remember, his two sisters, his brother, the aunt, are all sitting there. They`re wearing blue ribbons in memory of their brother. They`re -- they`ve been there every single day of the testimony.
And as soon as she said that Travis sent her little boy`s underwear, you could just see Travis`s sister, Tanisha, and she was, like, nodding [SIC] her head. You could just feel the anger as she was -- she was going like this, like "That is not true. How dare you paint my brother like that?"
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think it was Spider-Man underwear, and we will analyze the significance of that claim. And, remember, these are claims. This man you`re looking at here is no longer around to defend himself or put any of his e-mails or voice mails or photos into context.
Jodi was baptized by Travis Alexander into the Mormon faith. Now, here`s that photo of Jodi and Travis from that very day. We`re going to show it to you in a second. Remember, there it is. They`re in white. This is graphic testimony, but it goes to the point, the central point of the defense case, that Jodi was sexually degraded by Travis.
Today in court, Jodi claims right after this baptism ceremony, where she`s dunked in water and Travis says an incantation of some sort, they stripped out of their white spiritual garments, and Travis had anal sex with her, despite the Mormon religious insistence on no premarital sex. Jodi claims Travis said it was OK because it wasn`t vaginal sex.
Even though a previous boyfriend testified he had the same kind of sex with Jodi, she seemed intent on conveying to the jurors that she was an innocent, hurt and corrupted by Travis`s sexual demands.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: Was it pleasurable for you, physically?
ARIAS: That time it was painful. Somewhat.
NURMI: Given that it was painful, why didn`t you tell him no?
ARIAS: Eventually, I did. If I would just let him continue, but it was -- became too painful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, you and she even enjoyed, I believe, on two occasions, anal sex, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, let`s debate this, because, essentially, we`ve got two story lines that are conflicting, and the jurors could take either one. So, let`s debate it with our expert legal panel.
Is Jodi effectively saying, "I was an innocent. I was corrupted and sexually abused by this man who used sex as a way to control me and who used religion as a cover"?
Or was she a willing participant, as you see here in one of her photos -- we`re not showing you the whole, but it`s -- whole photo, but she`s naked -- was she a willing participant in kinky sex?
OK, let`s bring our attorneys, Jordan Rose, Lisa Bloom, Eric Schwartzreich, Holly Hughes. And I want to start with Holly Hughes.
HOLLY HUGHES, ATTORNEY: OK. I`m game. What do you need to know, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, your opinion. What do you think?
HUGHES: Well, you know, the defense is walking a fine line here. I get where they`re going. And I`ve got to say, I respect this defense team for putting it all out there, because they`re taking a lot of heat, but what they`re trying to do is explain her pattern of behavior, so when that defense expert of domestic violence comes up next week or in the next couple of days, they will say it is very possible that an educated, intelligent, successful woman would, in fact, stay in a relationship like this.
And they are taking their time. They`re getting it all out there. It is graphic, and it`s hard to hear, but they`re going to follow that with a DV expert who is going to explain it is possible.
The only concern I have -- and I see where the defense is going -- is exactly what you hit on. She`s not a complete innocent. She has lived with a man before. She has engaged in sex, possibly anal once before with another boyfriend. So they need to be really careful about painting her too much of an innocent, or it`s going to backfire with the jury, and they`re going to think they`re being disingenuous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for Avo.com.
LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVO.COM: You know, I think she`s really an insult to people who are genuine abuse survivors.
She`s a grown woman. This is a man with whom she had consensual sex. If she didn`t like it, frankly, she should have said no or at least not returned again and again and again to have sex with him.
And it`s very easy for her now, now that he`s deceased, to create stories about those sexual interludes. But, P.S., what does any of this have to do with a murder trial? It`s very interesting. It`s very lurid, but what`s it have to do with self-defense? We still have yet to hear one incident where she was physically threatened by him. I`m still waiting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eric Schwartzreich?
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, ATTORNEY: Jane, wow. Salt-n-Pepa can sum this case up: Let`s talk about sex, baby. And sex sells. The million-dollar question is, is Jodi Arias selling this to the jury?
I don`t know the answer, but I know the questions: Is it anal sex? Is it oral sex? Apparently, according to her, even Mormons love sex.
All this time this trial has been going on, she`s been on the stand three days and not one talk about self-defense. I imagine -- and it`s unfortunate that a lot of women feel like prostitutes sometimes, but this is a self-defense case. Does the sex, do these relationships, does it add up?
And is the defense team and is Jodi selling this, is this self- defense? We haven`t had one mention, nothing, about the self-defense. All of this talk about the abusive relationships, it`s a tactic. And I wonder if all this talk about blow jobs, if that`s blowing the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Blowing the case. Ha-ha. Jordan Rose, your thoughts.
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: How can we even believe anything she`s saying? I mean, we`ve had a couple people testify already, past girlfriends of Travis, that he was an absolute gentleman in their relationships. We`ve had a number of people, both before and after Travis, testify that Jodi was the aggressor, physically.
And so all of this testimony -- if I hear one more time that defense attorney say, "How does this make you feel" to Jodi, I just -- I mean, how did it make Travis feel when she [SIC] was stabbed 29 times? He is not on trial here. He is not here to defend himself. And that`s what they`re doing and it`s, frankly, insulting, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about why Jodi Arias has been allowed to, essentially, take control of this case and this courtroom for three days, talking about everything under the sun. Why is the judge allowing it? There`s an actually good reason for it. That`s on the other side, and we`re taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: We were getting intimate. We were making out, basically. He began to remove my clothes.
I wasn`t expecting that. This was the first time we were kissing.
NURMI: All your clothes?
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: He was texting me after the banquet. He said really nice things. We sat down and ended up talking for a few more hours about just about everything. On the elevator, he leaned in very close as if he wanted to kiss me. And he was licking his lips, and he was staring at my lips. He got right in my face. He licked his lips and said, "I wish you didn`t have a boyfriend."
NURMI: Did you kiss him?
ARIAS: No. He made it very obvious that he wanted to kiss me, but he, like, he was restraining himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Photos of Travis`s penis were entered into evidence today and projected on a huge screen in court. Talk about the blush factor. Imagine how his family felt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Those are pictures of Travis`s erection.
NURMI: And when did you -- or how did you come into possession of these photos?
ARIAS: They were sent to me.
NURMI: How?
ARIAS: Via his phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She says Travis asked her to sext him back, but she wouldn`t send photos of herself.
Once again, she`s attempting to portray herself as the innocent one here, indeed, the victim, corrupted and manipulated by the man that she ended up killing in a very vicious fashion. But this time they actually had photos to support this particular claim.
I want to go out to the phone lines. Joy, New Mexico, your question or thought. Joy, New Mexico.
CALLER: Well, I`m a Mormon. I`m 79 years old, and I`m very sad about how they`re portraying this young gentleman. My question was, what period of time did this take place? He`s supposed to be a CEO running a business, very successful. How come he can have so much time to be in bed with her all the time?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go to Beth Karas, correspondent "In Session," who probably knows more about this case than anyone.
First of all, are there Mormons amongst the jurors? Do we know that? And why is Jodi Arias being allowed to go on and on for day after day talking about everything under the sun? What does it have to do with the fact that this is a death-penalty case, Beth?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Jurors were asked in the questionnaire their religion, but we don`t know the answers. Those -- the answers to the questions in the questionnaires have not been made public, so I can`t tell you if there are any Mormons on the jury. I would highly doubt it, but I can`t say for sure.
Why all this detail? Apparently, the two experts who are scheduled to testify after Jodi Arias, domestic violence and a psychologist -- one will say she suffers from battered women`s syndrome or something like that, and the other one will say post-traumatic stress disorder -- they relied on her entire history, not just her relationship with Travis Alexander, but her relationships with men in general, and the abuse she suffered at the hands of her parents, who would hit her as part of their discipline when she was a child and a teen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, how does she make the leap from all of this sex talk -- oh, she was coerced, not physically, but she was encouraged to have anal sex with him and all sorts of other things that I don`t want to repeat unnecessarily, but you know. We all know what we`re talking about here. How do you make the leap from that to she killed him in self-defense?
DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think what the -- what the defense is trying to paint is that this is a person who`s gone through multiple instances of abuse in her life: by her parents, by past boyfriends. And she stuck around, because a lot of times what we know about victims of abuse is that they gravitate towards the familiar, even if it`s bad. And so this would explain why she keeps going back to Travis, even though he mistreats her.
But even if she is telling the truth, and she was an abused individual, there are many people abused who have post-traumatic stress disorder, who have these symptoms, and they don`t go out killing people.
And so I think they`re trying to paint her as the victim, but it`s really hard when they try to do that unilaterally when she seems to have driven so much of their relationship.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman?
JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes. And we have to put it into perspective, Jane. The reality is Jodi Arias could take the stand right now and say Travis Alexander had three heads, for example, and she would go unchallenged right now. So, we really have to keep it into perspective.
This cross-examination will be legendary. Mr. Martinez is scribbling down notes for every question, and the longer that Jodi Arias stays on the stand, the longer the cross-examination into all of her lies is going to be.
We`re only up to, like, March of 2007 right now. She could be up for another day or two just on direct examination.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We haven`t even gotten to the sex tapes yet. Supposedly a long, a great amount of sex tapes that we`ve got to hear between, allegedly, Travis and Jodi. We thought we were going to hear them today. We didn`t. So, we`ve got that to look forward to.
More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: Was he treating you as a girlfriend in front of these people and not in front of -- in front of others? Is that what you`re telling us?
ARIAS: Yes.
NURMI: Did he introduce you to them as his girlfriend?
ARIAS: No. I was kind of just a friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute, sort of. I was beginning to think that I`ve been very stupid and he got what he wanted, and he wasn`t interested in me anymore, which I felt -- I didn`t feel very good. I felt like a used piece of toilet paper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, there she is sort of almost crying when she says that. What an embarrassing thing to have to say in front of, essentially, the world.
Susan Constantine, body language expert, what do you make of her demeanor, her tone of voice?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, when she`s talking about those moments, especially when the anal sex part came about, you know, her voice softened, she put her head down. I saw very reliable signs of sadness and also lots of insecurity, feeling defeated, you know. So, this in itself was showing me that that was really how -- not how she was feeling herself at that moment, but all these other people are watching her. Mom is there, right there in the gallery looking at her, and she`s looking and she`s feeling ashamed.
You saw some fidgeting. You would see her with her fingers kind of upside-down -- we would call upside-down steeple -- which is showing a lot of insecurity, versus someone that would do this, which is more fact finding.
So she would look at the jury, of course, answer the questions, because she`s connecting, building rapport with the jury, and then she -- but it seems kind of robotic.
But overall, this time, she really looked a little bit more deflated, but I think it was more about those very, very intricate detailed information that she was ashamed, because her mother was in the audience.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are those who say she sounds rehearsed. So let`s bring in our legal panel again.
Lisa Bloom, is it ethical for a defense attorney to, literally, rehearse this kind of testimony?
BLOOM: Oh, absolutely. We, as attorneys, I`m -- I`m rehearsing a client right now for a hearing. You can go over. You can do question and answer, and that`s all protected by attorney-client privilege.
The one thing you cannot do is suborn perjury. You can`t put a witness on the stand if you know that they are going to lie and ask them questions that will elicit the lie. But other than that, of course, you go over the testimony with your client.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s go to the phone lines. Cindy, California, your question or thought. Cindy, California.
CALLER: Yes, hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: I love your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: And me and my rescue dogs watch you every day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wonderful.
CALLER: I had a comment about this underwear business. If you remember the movie "Charlie`s Angels" when it came out, Cameron Diaz was wearing Spider-Man underwear when she was dancing. You now, so it was like a funny thing.
And actually, on my 40th birthday a few years ago, some friends got me some as a joke, because they said my butt looked like her butt. You know what I mean? So it`s not, like, a sexual thing. It`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think you`re -- I think you`re making a point. I mean, the defense, Holly Hughes, is going to take these Spider- Man underwear that Travis Alexander reportedly sent to her on Valentine`s Day, along with chocolates and other things, and try to turn that into some kind of argument that he is some kind of pedophile. That`s a leap.
HUGHES: That is a leap. I`ll give you that, Jane. I mean, I like what this defense team is doing, but, yes, that`s reaching.
And let me tell you something, Mr. Martinez is going to get every little bit of this. He is furiously taking notes.
And the thing about this particular defendant, Jodi Arias, when she`s testifying to all this, she`s so exact and she`s so specific. And she remembers this date and this time, and I stopped at Starbucks on the way home. You better believe he`s taking every little tiny note like that. This man is sharp.
I wouldn`t doubt he knows about the underwear from the "Charlie`s Angels" movie, or he`s watching your show tonight; now he knows about it. He`s going to ask about that. "You all watched movies together. Wasn`t that something?" They`ve got to be careful. It`s a very fine line.
I understand where they`re going. I know why they`re doing it, but yes, they`ve got to be really, really careful. Because if they go too far, the jury will resent them and feel they`ve been lied to if they try to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. They can buy back the sale, in essence. We`re far from done debating another explosive day of testimony from Jodi Arias.
Top of the hour, Nancy Grace has her take on all the latest developments at 8 and 10 p.m. Eastern.
But on the other side of the break, we`re going to play that sound bite involving the Spider-Man children`s underwear and continue to analyze all of the unbelievable comments made by Jodi Arias on the stand today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Out of the corner of my eye I saw somebody walking toward me. I stepped out of the way, because I thought he needed to walk past me, but he stopped right in front of me and stuck his hand out and introduced himself to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: He called me a "skank". He called me "Pollyanna". He called me "porn star". They advised me to stop dating him immediately.
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI ARIAS` DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Travis was still able to use Jodi for his own sexual desires through the phone.
ARIAS: I just (inaudible) his agenda.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Oh, yes. There`s the phone sex that she records.
ARIAS: He was actually very flirtatious with another woman. It was with a married woman. It made me question what his values were regarding marriage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made a joking comment to the waitress about him and Jodi not dating.
ARIAS: Sometimes he wouldn`t even hold my hand. He`d just be like -- he wouldn`t introduce me to anybody.
WILLMOTT: In reality, Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another stunning day in court today. Jodi Arias, day three on the stand, and she delivered some shocking allegations claiming that right after Travis Alexander baptized her into the Mormon faith and they are wearing the gowns -- and that is the shot right there from the baptism. Hours after that, he takes her home and they take off their clothes and he has anal sex with her.
The defense is portraying Travis as a master manipulator, using the cloak of religion to turn Jodi into some kind of sex slave. We warn you, this testimony is graphic, but it`s central to the defense case.
Here`s what Jodi says about the Mormon vow of chastity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Vaginal sex was off limits and everything else was, more or less, ok.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who gave you that understanding?
ARIAS: Travis did. It just seemed like he sort of had, like, the Bill Clinton version, where he`s over here it seemed like oral and anal sex were also sex to me, but not for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, Jodi is referring to Bill Clinton`s affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, and who could forget this infamous statement?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Travis Alexander, obviously, not here to defend himself. He was viciously killed. So, how is the state going to refute this portrait that`s being painted of Travis as, call it what it is, a jerk, manipulator.
Jean Casarez, correspondent, "In Session" you`ve been there. What strikes you about this day three of testimony, where to me it seems like she is, literally, taking the reins of this entire case?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes. You know, a lot of things strike me. But you were just talking about the Mormon vows, right? And she`s baptized. And she is made -- gives a solemn promise to uphold those vows. And she says that Travis Alexander told her that the vow of premarital sex only involves vaginal sex.
But I heard her say on the stand about the -- the grinding aspect. She talks about that. And she said on the stand, it`s what a lot of Mormons do, but they are not supposed to do before marriage. Well, then you know it`s wrong.
If you know you`re not supposed to do it, you know it`s wrong. So jurors could think she knew what she was doing was wrong, she wasn`t so innocent.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, I think everybody wants to know and indeed the defense attorney kept asking her, "Why did you stay? Why didn`t you leave?"
DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: And I think the defense is trying to get at this point of what we know about abuse victims. Abuse victims do tend to stay in their relationships with their abuser because it`s what they know, because it`s the only way that they feel validated and love, because that`s part of their experience.
And so that`s why they started from the beginning of her life and how she was severely abused by her father and mother, allegedly, and how then she had some abusive boyfriends before Travis. And so we`re trying to paint that she`s repeating that pattern again and again until she got to Travis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: They can -- Jane, they can paint whatever they want, but let me tell you this. Let`s not forget that Jodi Arias actually broke it off. She broke up, by herself, with many of the other men she had dated, so why didn`t she simply break it off with Travis if she was so abused?
And the other thing, Jane, is even if you believe every single thing that Jodi Arias said today, which is such a leap, because we already know she`s a proven liar. But if you believe what she said today, I still don`t understand where the link to any sort of self defense is.
She doesn`t claim he was physically abusive. She hasn`t said he was even really verbally abusive. She never set any boundaries in the relationship, so I`m just not quite sure where that leap to stabbing somebody 27 times is -- 27 times.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: And Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Lisa.
BLOOM: -- you know who else stays in relationships? You know who else stays in relationships? People who are perfectly happy in relationships --
LEIBERMAN: Yes, Lisa.
BLOOM: People who are having consensual sex that they are enjoying --
LEIBERMAN: Yes.
BLOOM: -- and so that would be another explanation why Jodi Arias stayed in the relationship. I don`t believe anything she has to say about Travis, by the way and therefore I don`t believe anything she says about her family and all of these other incidents of supposed abuse. I think we should take all of it with a big grain of salt.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well --
LEIBERMAN: It is convenient, as Lisa says, it`s convenient now that she`s on the stand to rewrite history, but if she was truly defending herself against Travis, why didn`t she pick up the phone and call police the moment after she killed him? Why did she take a gun and a knife to his house? Why did she drive to go see him?
Why, because she was infatuated with him. She didn`t want to break it off and that`s what the evidence has shown and will show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, here`s how I see this case going. She`s taking this kinky relationship that they had, which would appear to involve role-playing, dominance and submission. He`s claimed this authority by baptizing her and then he has a degrading sexual experience with her right after -- allegedly, purportedly. So he`s creating sort of a dominance and submission kind of relationship, but she is going along with it.
So, is she essentially taking what was a consensual S&M type of relationship and now trying to turn it into sexual abuse, and aren`t those two totally different things?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They are completely different things, Jane, and that`s exactly why they are going to follow up all of this testimony, all of this sexual testimony with experts, her psychologist and then a domestic violence expert, to try and explain to the jury that you should believe Jodi`s version because she exhibits this sign or that sign or this manifestation.
Because ultimately it matters what the 12 people in the box believe, and you`re exactly right, this could be an explanation of a dominant/submissive, S&M type of thing -- that both parties were into it, enjoying.
What the defense is saying is, no, this was manipulation. This was emotional abuse. This was emotional battering. And that`s why they are going to back up her testimony with the experts to try and explain to a jury that it is possible. And it will come down to does somebody on the jury think it`s possible.
I think the best the defense can go for here is hanging this jury. I don`t think you`re going to get 12 people to say this is self defense, but what they are trying to do is put enough reasonable doubt out there to say, is it possible that she was abused? And since Travis is not alive to testify, we have to have the dynamic between the two explained through his words, his text messages -- all of that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jordan Rose -- Jordan Rose, what can happen is they can now bring on a domestic violence expert to explain why victims of abuse don`t leave, because her attorney keeps asking her, why didn`t you leave?
Well, she gives various answers, but this expert is now going to come in and say, battered women don`t leave. Psychologically-battered women don`t leave, just as physically battered women don`t leave. What do you do with that?
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Well, you know, they have to prove that he was doing something physically abusive to her, and that`s not in any of the testimony. I mean it`s possible that --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Jordan, let me just say this. Let me say this.
ROSE: -- now think that he`s a jerk --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think they are going to try to expand this notion of battered women`s syndrome to include not physical battering, but psychological emotions and sexual battering -- psychological, emotional, and sexual battering. What do you do with that?
ROSE: Well, you remember, you remind, as the prosecuting attorney absolutely will do -- we`ve seen them before and we`ll see them again -- very strong and justice will be served because he does his job here.
And he`s going to remind the jury that it has to be what a reasonable person would do in this situation. And a reasonable person would have to use deadly force to prevent this naked man who`s ticked off because you dropped his camera from killing you. I mean she`s almost like a comedian in the sense where she`s going, you know, the sex was terrible, but then I went and did it again and again and again. And it`s a very strange dynamic.
I`ve got to believe that some of these jurors, and hopefully all of these jurors, are looking at this going this is just like reading cosmopolitan magazine. This is a 20-year-old relationship where the guy is a little bit of a jerk sometimes and she keeps coming back. And she drives across the country to see him. She`s obsessed with him, and she`s taking the obsession that we`ve all known people who have had obsessive relationships -- she`s taken it one step too far, way too far.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side, more of Jodi Arias from her own mouth, and we`re taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: It was much more sexual in nature, and it was with a married woman -- an LDS married woman. It made me question what his values were regarding marriage. But I liked him, so I wasn`t going to break up with him.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can come to the co-op for just about everything, not just food. I`m talking soap, shampoo, body lotions, toothpaste, et cetera. And what I love about it is, I only shop cruelty free and a vast majority of the products here are cruelty free. That means that they have fewer ingredients and less chemical ingredients, and that`s great for you.
You know, the average American woman pours more than 100 different chemicals on her body every day and she generally has no idea what those chemicals do. Here you generally are buying things that are much more basic and that are not loaded with chemicals that could hurt you.
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ARIAS: He made some jokes toward me that were not very nice, but they were jokes. But still didn`t sit well with me, so I expressed that with some of his friends. They advised me to stop dating him immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will Jodi`s testimony help her? That`s the assumption, perhaps, but could it hurt her? Could it boomerang?
A lot of high-profiled defendants do not take the stand. You know who I`m talking about, Michael Jackson, O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony -- they didn`t talk, and they were acquitted. On the other hand, former San Diego socialite Betty Broderick took the stand, accused of murder; her first trial resulted in mistrial. She took the stand again and was convicted of second-degree murder.
Louis Woodward testified. The young British au pair was accused of shaking a baby she cared for to death. The jury convicted her of second- degree murder, but then the judge turned out to reduce the sentence to manslaughter and released her.
So, there`s no guarantee, my expert panel, that taking the stand is good for the defendant. It`s a "Hail Mary Pass". It`s a risk.
Eric Schwartzreich (ph), criminal defense attorney, do you think, ultimately, it was a good idea for Jodi Arias to take the stand?
ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they had absolutely no choice, Jane. She`s been talking so much, they are saying self defense. She needs to get on the stand.
But what every seasoned criminal defense attorney knows, which this defense attorney knows, is voir dire jury selection is where you win your trials.
And I heard one of your callers about three segments ago, she said she was a Mormon and she was focusing on where did he have enough time, where did Travis have time, if he was a Mormon, to engage in all this activity?
You better believe that when they were doing jury selection, they ask questions. They want to know if someone has been a victim of domestic abuse, domestic violence, they know their background. Everything that they`re putting in front of this jury has a reason --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But they don`t know everybody`s sexual history. They don`t know if everybody`s engaged in the type of kinky behavior or the type of sex acts that Jodi Arias described. They don`t know if any woman has ever resented performing, for example, oral sex on somebody; that she felt pressured into performing oral sex on a man.
Let`s continue our debate. I mean could this boomerang, Lisa Bloom?
BLOOM: It absolutely could. You know, this is 2013 America. I`m sure that most of the jurors are sitting there thinking, you know what, this is just ordinary sexual activity between two young people. Maybe the guy was a little pushy, but ultimately, she was a consenting adult, she went along with it. I`m sure they have a lot of healthy skepticism about her story.
And by the way, who is she to attack his values? This is a woman who stabbed him to death, who sliced his throat, who shot him. And now she`s on the stand saying, you know, I didn`t really like his values because he was pushing me into having sex even though he was a Mormon. I mean come on. I think the jury is seeing through all that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But I got to tell you, Jon Leiberman, how many cases have I sat through where all the great minds say, oh, this is going to result in a conviction and then the defendant walks.
LEIBERMAN: This one`s different. Jane, I`m telling you, this one is different. And let me tell you this too. Let`s be frank. The only reason why she is on the stand is to save her life. That is really it. I don`t think the defense thinks they have a chance in hell that she`s going to get acquitted. The point is, they are trying to save her life and that`s why they are meticulously going through all of this because then they can look at the jury and say, "Look, you`ve gotten to know Jodi through six or seven days of testimony, how are you going to put this woman to death?"
That`s really why she`s up there and that`s what they hope to accomplish.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Quickly, Holly Hughes.
HUGHES: Well Jane, the two examples you used, Betty Broderick and Louise Woodward, what did the jury come back with? Second-degree murder. So it gets Jodi off the hook for first-degree murder, and at this point, if they can`t hang it, they are looking for a lesser included to take the death penalty off the table.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. You had the Menendez brothers too.
HUGHES: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They spoke out in their own defense and they are both behind bars right now.
More on the other side.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/Jane. Baby Cloey -- you are adorable. Shadow -- oh, what a beauty. And Jaxon -- he likes to party. I can tell. Who is this? Farfel -- what a sweetheart -- Farfel.
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ARIAS: When I opened it on top there were some chocolates and they were all melted completely. Beneath that was a shirt that he had been joking about getting me for some months, the one that was in the picture, said "Travis Alexander`s". The pink shorts, which I didn`t see his name on the back at first. I just picked them up and thought they were cute. They were boys` underwear, they were Spider-Man underwear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, what is the defense trying to do? What`s their point with the boys` Spider-Man underwear sent to Jodi from Travis on Valentine`s Day?
HO: Well, Jane, I think the defense is trying to paint him as a deviant. That he is somebody who is sexually deviant that he would resort to unusual methods of keeping her in this relationship. You know, the shirts where she was wearing -- where there was a possessive I`m Travis Alexander`s. And they`re really trying to build the case that he was at least psychologically abusive if not actually also physically abusive.
I know they haven`t gotten to that yet, but right now they`re just trying to paint him as a morally depraved individual that it`s possible for him to do something that could really drive Jodi Arias to the brink and finally kill him the way that she did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, what is the jury doing?
CASAREZ: I know, they`re different today from yesterday. Today they are sitting back in their seat versus on the edge of their seat. They`re not leaning forward today. But I`m seeing a lot of notes being taken. I mean they`re focused. They are completely focused.
But I see a lot of men jurors because it`s predominantly male at this point. We don`t have the alternates yet, and I see male jurors writing a lot of notes, more than yesterday.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do they seem embarrassed and shocked like those in the gallery?
CASAREZ: No. No. They don`t seem embarrassed and shocked. They seem matter of fact, listening to the evidence and writing it all down.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. More on the other side. Stay right there.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan Constantine, body language expert, take it away.
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, I found that with the long words she`s been using throughout and they`re very detailed information. Researchers found those large words with more than six letters are really significant with those that are detached from emotion and those long running sentences with deception.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow we are analyzing the testimony from a Mormon standpoint.
Nancy is next.
END
