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Jodi Arias Gives Explicit Details

Aired February 7, 2013 - 20:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense calls Jodi Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you solemnly swear the testimony you`re about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008?

ARIAS: Yes, I did.


ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me and I defended myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said that no jury would convict you.

ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.

At the time, I had plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me because I didn`t expect any of you to be here.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, raw and uncensored, Jodi Arias in her own words. Arias spends day after day on the stand under oath describing a trail of men and sex encounters, going from one guy to the next. She jumps from one religion to the next, witchcraft, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormonism. She details jealous confrontations with other women, appearing soft-spoken and meek on the stand. It`s in stark contrast to the shocking and brutal slashing death of her lover.

She then goes on to outline repeat sex encounters with Travis Alexander, the murder victim, even on the same day he baptizes her in the Mormon church, wearing her church baptismal clothes. But that`s just the tip of the iceberg.

In painstaking detail, Arias describes the sex relationship between her and murder victim Travis Alexander. The key question remains, does all this talk of sex help or hurt the defense of Jodi Arias?

Take a listen as Arias describes in detail her first sex encounters with Travis. Let me warn you, this is graphic.


ARIAS: We were laying on the beds. We were side by side facing each other, kissing. That`s what I mean by intimate at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he touching any particular parts of your body, or were you just kissing?

ARIAS: I don`t really recall that at first. It began to lead to more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what do you mean by more?

ARIAS: Well, I don`t really recall how it happened, but he began to remove my clothes and he began to perform oral sex on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was this comfortable? You mentioned earlier that you had a certain level of discomfort with this -- with being naked. Were you uncomfortable while this oral sex was going on?

ARIAS: I was -- I was uncomfortable. It was dark. I mean, the lights were off, so, like, that might have made it a little bit more -- I mean, a little more tolerable. But it was -- I don`t know. I mean, it -- he -- he knew what he was doing for sure, but it was just -- felt like too much, too soon. And I mean, I couldn`t exactly rewind at that point, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not? Did you -- did you voice your displeasure with the events?

ARIAS: No, I can`t say there was displeasure. But it was uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let me rephrase my question then. Did you voice your discomfort to him?

ARIAS: No. I didn`t want to give him that impression.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, beyond the scope.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not, Ms. Arias?

ARIAS: Why not what? I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you voice your discomfort?

ARIAS: I didn`t want him to have that impression. I wanted to -- I wanted to at least appear like I was enjoying it as much as he seemed to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were attempting to give him the impression that you were enjoying things.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why were you interested in doing that?

ARIAS: I guess -- I guess it would have seemed to me to be unattractive for -- for me to say anything different or anything negative about the experience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened after he performed oral sex upon you?

ARIAS: He asked for reciprocation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did that request make you feel?

ARIAS: At that point, I had taken it that far. I was kind of glad he was done and I was just willing to reciprocate at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you perform oral sex upon him at that time?





ARIAS: In my mouth.

We both were trying to figure out a place where we could go. So I don`t know why, but I was wanting to go with him also to find some place. So we went in our respective cars. We drove to a park near Starbucks. It was between my house and Starbucks. And it was the middle of a school day, so nobody was there. There was a parking lot there. And we pulled up into the parking lot. And he left Napoleon in the car with the air-conditioner on and the windows rolled up, and he came into my car and sat in the passenger seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And after he sat in the passenger seat, you mentioned that he expressed his -- that he was, to use your words, horny, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he got in the car, did he voice or convey an interest in engaging in some sort of sexual activity with you in the car?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sort of activity, to your understanding, was he interested in?

ARIAS: Oral sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so we`re clear, was that oral sex that you were to be performing on him or him performing on you?

ARIAS: He wanted to receive it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you comply?



ARIAS: I felt -- I felt an attraction to him and -- the feeling was mutual, and I wanted to -- I just wanted to -- I don`t know. I wanted to do what he wanted to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did oral sex take place in your car?





ARIAS: I don`t remember, actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How did you feel after that encounter?

ARIAS: I don`t -- I don`t recall feeling really bad, maybe just a little deflated. He wouldn`t -- he refused to kiss me afterward because he said it was gross. I guess -- maybe that`s because I was just performing oral sex, but that`s what he said. And so he kissed me on the cheek and left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us about Aaron Burke (ph). Did you share one hotel room, or did he each have your own room?

ARIAS: We had one motel room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... arriving at the hotel room, and I believe your words were making out with Mr. Alexander, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. If you could, just kind of describe for us -- and this was within minutes of you arriving, to our understanding?

ARIAS: Yes, it happened pretty quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Just begin again describing what happened during this makeout session, as you describe it.

ARIAS: You mean, like, in detail?


ARIAS: Well, he opened the door for me because he had the room key. And he took my hand and walked me over to the bed, sort of, kind of hold me, but walked me. And I went willingly, of course.

We started kissing. It got a little more intense and a little more passionate, and then soon we were both nude on the bed, and there were certain things that he said that -- well, like, it`s -- it`s not -- I don`t know. We didn`t have intercourse, so to speak. There was oral sex that weekend.

But that particular day, we did what I guess he called -- at that time he called it grinding. So it`s kind of like, you know, just being together but not actually having intercourse. That`s something that -- that I guess a lot of Mormons do, but they`re not supposed to. There are different terms for it, like the "Provo push." That`s a Mormon implication (ph) because it`s in Utah. This is what I learned. So...


ARIAS: I`m sorry.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, besides the grinding and the oral sex, you said you didn`t have intercourse during this encounter, this first encounter?

ARIAS: Not vaginal intercourse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anal intercourse?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After this first encounter where there was oral sex -- and were you giving or receiving the oral sex?

ARIAS: Both.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many sexual interactions did you have with Mr. Alexander over this time in Aaronburg (ph)?

ARIAS: I would say three. I mean, total, if you just -- you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And these were all instances of sexual -- or excuse me, oral sex?

ARIAS: No. Like, the first night, it was the grinding and the next night was oral sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what was the third encounter?

ARIAS: It was oral sex also.


ARIAS: It was before we left.


GRACE: Now, to hear Arias tell it, she felt like a, quote, "prostitute" and a, quote, "used piece of toilet paper" during her relationship with Travis, describing in graphic detail her sex experiences with the man she eventually kills.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us how you felt leaving Aaronburg that Saturday morning and driving back.

ARIAS: Well, when we parted, there wasn`t a lot of affection, so I kind of felt disappointed, not upset, just kind of bummed out a little bit. I don`t know, kind of felt stupid.


ARIAS: I was replaying the weekend -- or it was -- it was my weekend. I was replaying that weekend, and it just -- I kind of wished things had gone a little bit differently.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean by that?

ARIAS: Maybe just -- I wished that we had had more of a connection, a meeting of minds, rather -- well, I didn`t -- I didn`t dislike the physical part, but it seemed like it was missing an important element.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What important element was missing?

ARIAS: The emotion, and like I said, just the mental connection, some kind of being on the same page, so to speak.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you didn`t feel -- as you were leaving, you didn`t feel any kind of emotional connection or like you had grown closer with Mr. Alexander. Is that what you`re telling us?

ARIAS: I didn`t feel like we had grown closer. He seemed more distant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel in retrospect about the sexual behavior you engaged in with Mr. Alexander? Did you feel OK? Was it still too far, too soon?

ARIAS: It didn`t feel like too much, too soon anymore because over that month, we had really gotten to know each other really well. I developed feelings for him, and it just seemed -- it was confusing, though, even though it wasn`t -- it was a little confusing, the sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean? What was confusing about it?

ARIAS: Well, I mean, I guess just where the line should be drawn, I guess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what do you mean by line? Your line, the vow of chastity? What kind of line are you speaking of?

ARIAS: Well, to me, sex is sex. There are just different ways to have sex. And it seemed like -- it seemed like Travis was kind of -- I don`t know how to put it. But it just seemed like he sort of had, like, the Bill Clinton version, whereas over here, it seemed like, you know, oral and anal sex were also sex to me, but not for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the line that you`re talking about, that line of demarcation, really sounds like that that dealt with the vow of chastity. Is that accurate?

ARIAS: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you were reflecting back on the weekend on your way back to Palm Desert, did you consider your actions -- and your own, not his, but your own actions as it relates to that vow of chastity?

ARIAS: I considered it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how did you feel about that?

ARIAS: Well, I trusted what I was told by him, so I didn`t feel like we were sinning. I just felt -- I felt a little bit -- I hate to put it this way, but I felt a little bit used. But I -- I knew I had gone there on my own, willingly so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean, though, that you felt used?

ARIAS: Well, you know, he gets a hotel room. I show up. We hang out. We have sex. He`s not really there presently, like, he`s not mentally present. I`m getting a lot of attention, but only while we`re engaging in sexual activity. And then we check out and he takes off.

And I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute, sort of, which I felt -- I didn`t feel very good. I kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper. I don`t know. It didn`t -- I didn`t continue feeling that way. Just shortly thereafter for a little while I did.


GRACE: When we come back, did sex make Jodi Arias feel so bad she sought revenge?


GRACE: Friends and family of Travis Alexander visibly distraught in court as the defense shows Jodi Arias explicit photos of victim Travis Alexander. But how does this all fit into a murder case? And did these sex encounters with Travis make Arias feel so, quote, "bad," she seeks revenge?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be so kind as to take a look at those. Do you recognize those?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are those pictures of?

ARIAS: Those are pictures of Travis`s erection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you or how did you come into possession of these photos?

ARIAS: They were sent to me.


ARIAS: Via his phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Via a text message or a picture message?

ARIAS: Picture message.


ARIAS: His phone and my phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want to reciprocate?

ARIAS: Not -- no, I didn`t, but I knew he wanted to, so I was a little bit conflicted, but I said no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he react to your refusal to send him a picture?

ARIAS: He -- he felt it should be fair, kind of like that. Like, he didn`t say that, but he had been requesting photos for a while at this point and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was he requesting photos of?

ARIAS: Naked pictures.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of particular body parts, or did he make any specific requests?

ARIAS: No, he didn`t specify body parts that I remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Up to the point in time when you received this picture -- these pictures of his erection, you had not sent him any pictures, is that right?



GRACE: Up next, in graphic detail, Jodi Arias outlines how her relationship with Travis intensifies.



ARIAS: I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. I could feel an erection.

Those are pictures of Travis`s erection.

-- began to have anal sex with me.

I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute.

The first night, it was the grinding, and the next night was oral sex.

I felt a little bit used.

I kind of felt like -- like a prostitute.

Kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper.

-- through clenched teeth, Stop, stop, stop, and he stopped.

It became too painful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vow of chastity.

ARIAS: No premarital sex, that vaginal sex was off-limits, and everything else was more or less OK.

It was a little confusing, the sex.

Sex is sex.

He sort of had, like, the Bill Clinton version.

Oral sex and anal sex were also sex to me, but not for him. He finished by (CENSORED) on my back. Called me a skank. Called me Polyanna, porn star.


GRACE: Tonight raw and uncensored, Jodi Arias in her words. Arias spends day after day on the stand describing a trail of men. Sex encounters.

What we are seeing here is a character assassination of the murder victim, Travis Alexander. Let`s don`t lose sight of the way he died. A painful death. Slashed 29 times. Shot in the head. He crawls away and she stabs him another nine times in the back. With a butcher knife. Now, Arias already testified she`s had sex with Travis Alexander three times.

At this point, it`s November 2006, the day before Thanksgiving. And Arias claims the frequency of sex begins to escalate.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever express a desire during this weekend to engage in anal sex with you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did he, over the course of that weekend in Ehrenberg, express a desire to have vaginal sex with you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it appears, based on what you`ve told us, you declined his desire to have anal sex. Is that correct?

ARIAS: Yes, he was -- yes. I did. I just -- yes. I didn`t -- we did not have anal sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. In expressing his desire for that, was he -- that is what something he did repeatedly, or is that something that just came up one time?

ARIAS: It didn`t just come up one time. He wasn`t overly persistent about it, but it was somewhat repeatedly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Were you baptized before or after Thanksgiving?

ARIAS: After Thanksgiving. I think it was on the 22nd that year. Well, the 26th would have been on a Sunday so whatever the previous Thursday was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. This meeting then was at your home in Palm Desert?

ARIAS: Yes. I think it was the day before on the Wednesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. The day before Thanksgiving?

ARIAS: Yes, right before Thanksgiving. So probably Wednesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And where did you wind up meeting him?

ARIAS: He came to my house with his dog.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Was Darrell still living in the house at this time?

ARIAS: I think Darrell was still living in the house but he was at work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So tell us about what happened when he arrives at your home.

ARIAS: Well, this was the first time he was -- he had he seen my house. So I just walked him around the property. Briefly. It`s not a big property, but he wanted to see the pool. He -- his dog jumped in the pool and sank right to the bottom. So it was scary. I guess pugs don`t swim. So he jumped in with his clothes and everything on to save his dog and I took him and we put him inside so he won`t do that again.

So Travis was soaking wet at that point. So he took a hot shower because in November, the pool is freezing. And I threw his clothes in the drier so that they would dry off and warm up, and we were intimate again. And then we said good-bye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said intimate. How were you intimate?

ARIAS: I don`t recall exactly. It would have been oral sex or the grinding again. That`s all we were doing at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. During this particular encounter, did he again ask you to have anal sex with him?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But no anal sex took place during that -- on that day?

ARIAS: No, it was more like teasing, and I said no.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And after he (CENSORED) he left?

ARIAS: Shortly thereafter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the subject of the encounter, the anal sex you just described, did that come up in your conversations?

ARIAS: He wrote me a letter about it. We didn`t discuss it directly on the phone. We had discussed things of that nature in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever voice your displeasure with the incident to him?

ARIAS: Only when I said --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, hearsay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the declarant, Judge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled. You may answer.

ARIAS: I kind of just said through clenched teeth, stop, stop, stop, and he stopped. So I think he got the impression that it was not pleasurable at that point, but I never said anything about it after that of a negative nature.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you never advised him that you felt like, as I think you said, a used piece of toilet paper? You never advised him --

ARIAS: No. I wouldn`t have told him that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would not have, is that what you said?



ARIAS: Because I don`t think that would have made him feel very good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about how you felt?

ARIAS: I was dealing with that. You know.



GRACE: Next, Jodi Arias reveals what happens the same day she was baptized by Travis Alexander there in the Mormon Church.


GRACE: As the defense claims Jodi Arias, the victim of abuse, the jury hears graphic language from Jodi Arias on the stand revealing on the same day she`s baptized into the Mormon Church by Alexander, she has anal sex with him in her church baptismal clothes. Listen to just how that day unfolds. Warning again, this is graphic testimony.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel that day knowing that you were going to be baptized before the ceremony?

ARIAS: I was a little nervous because I didn`t know what the process entailed, but I was excited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us what happened when you got back to the house.

ARIAS: We got back to the house. His car was parked at my house so we took my car to church so we got back to the house. Went inside and we hugged. Words were exchanged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened after you hugged him and words were exchanged?

ARIAS: We began to kiss and things got intimate again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that place of intimacy a place you were thinking about going on this spiritual day?

ARIAS: Not how it ultimately happened. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean how it ultimately happened? Describe for us what happened after you and Mr. Alexander started kissing that day.

ARIAS: Well, we were in my bedroom. We were not on the bed but we were standing next to it, and we were kissing, and I was in my church clothes. He was in his church clothes. The kissing got more passionate, more intense and then he spun me around. And he bent me over the bed and he was just on top of me. I didn`t think anything was -- I thought he was just going to keep kissing me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened when he bent you over the bed? Were you facedown on the bed or face up?

ARIAS: I was face down. My head was turned to the side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what happened?

ARIAS: His hands were wandering and he lifted up my skirt and he pulled down my underwear and he was pressing against me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean pressing against you?

ARIAS: His whole body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have an erection?

ARIAS: I could feel an erection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what happened? Next?

ARIAS: He unzipped his pants and I guess he pulled them down. I didn`t see, but he -- he began to have anal sex with me and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said that he had anal sex with you. Based on what you said before, this wasn`t something that you were expecting to have?

ARIAS: No, not that night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this something that you wanted to happen?

ARIAS: Well, I can`t say I wanted to, but I didn`t stop him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he entered you, you said you didn`t stop him. Did you say anything? Did you tell him no?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it pleasurable for you physically?

ARIAS: That time, it was painful somewhat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, given that it was painful, why didn`t you tell him no?

ARIAS: Eventually, I did. I probably would have just let him continue, but it was -- became too painful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you say you probably would have just let him continue?

ARIAS: Because I knew that is what he had been wanting for -- for a while. And I just -- I trusted him. I had a lot of trust, and he -- I just went with what he was -- with his agenda I guess I could say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This agenda you describe him having and this pain you were experiencing, did this go on for several minutes before you told him no?

ARIAS: I don`t think it went on too long. Not several minutes. Maybe a few.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And from what you`re telling us, it sounds like the only reason that you told him no or told him to stop was the pain, not your lack of interest in this activity. Is that right?

ARIAS: That`s pretty accurate. I mean, I wasn`t looking forward to it, but definitely, pain I had to. I had to have him stop. Otherwise I probably would just have continued.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Otherwise what?

ARIAS: I probably would have continued if it weren`t for that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. After he stopped, was that the end of the intimacy that day?

ARIAS: He -- he finished by (CENSORED) on my back or somewhere like on me. And then we were finished. And then shortly -- I mean, I think we parted ways. We kissed and embraced and he left.


GRACE: When we return, the merry-go-round of men in Jodi Arias` life.


GRACE: They come and they go. Jodi Arias testifies about the many men she`s been with and had sex with. Going from one guy to the next, now that`s not a crime but one narrative remains consistent. Nothing is ever Jodi Arias` fault.


ARIAS: Bobby was like my first true love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So why at this point in time were you still open to the idea of a romantic and potentially sexual relationship with a man who had choked you and thrown you down as you described?

ARIAS: Well, like I said, I considered those incidents isolated and not a pattern of his. And I still loved him. And I -- he still loved me. I didn`t want to hurt him. And I didn`t want to -- I don`t -- I just -- we were -- it just felt natural. I had been with him for some years. He was my first love, being with him -- whether it was good or bad -- it just felt natural. And it was what I was accustomed to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And at this point in time Matt McCartney is your boyfriend?

ARIAS: Yes. Well, I don`t remember us making it official. But we became romantic and then it -- yes, we were boyfriend/girlfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This may go without saying because you lived together. But was this also a sexual relationship?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Matt?

ARIAS: Very much, yes. I was in love with him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know that probably it`s hard to quantify, but was this a serious relationship at this point in time?

ARIAS: Yes. We weren`t like heavily discussing marriage but we were talking about children and what kind of life, though, we would have if we decided to have a family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So was marriage on the table so to speak?

ARIAS: Yes. It was a future possibility.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How long in total in terms of your relationship were you together with Matt?

ARIAS: I think approximately a year and eight months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that the resort where you met Darryl Brewer?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You applied for a job and were interview bid Darryl Brewer, is that right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Right. And you said just a few moments ago you said eventually you got to the point where you fell in love with Darryl.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there -- is there a moment in time -- was there a point in time you can describe for us when you knew that was the case?

ARIAS: I don`t remember the case -- I mean the exact moment.


GRACE: Coming up, more disturbing testimony from murder suspect Jodi Arias.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Corporal Joshua Dumaw, 23, Spokane Valley, Washington. Purple Heart. Navy Achievement Medal. Parents Jennifer and Andy. Brother Kyle, sister Abby. Widow Kaylynn. Son Bode.

Joshua Dumaw, American hero.

Jodi Arias doesn`t only go from one guy to the next, she jumps from one religion to the next. Witchcraft, Voodoo, Wicca, Hinduism, Mormonism. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were talking -- we were at a point in your life when you were about ready to move in with Matt McCartney. Do you recall?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where we left off -- OK. And was Matt working?

ARIAS: Yes. He was a manager at Subway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Tell us what life was like and how was the relationship. How did he treat you?

ARIAS: I`d say that period of my life was probably one of the best times in my life. He treated me very well. He was very kind, he was very respectful, he was very spiritual. When I first met him, he -- I was a little bit leery of some of the things he was into. I saw some books on witchcraft and I thought, ooh, but he explained to me that he was just thinking that he had gone to church most of his life. And his -- he and his family are very much into the Native American culture. And so he asked her about the Native Americans and he was told they went to hell because they didn`t know Jesus Christ.

So that turned him off to Christianity. And he decided to explore other religions. So about the time that I met him he was not practicing Wicca, but he was studying it. And -- so he had kind of explained it a little bit to me so that it wasn`t so -- I guess frightened, suspicious or superstitious maybe of the religion.

And so I never practiced it myself. But I think he did prior to us getting together. And by the time I met him he was sort of moving on to other -- like studying Eastern philosophy and Hinduism and Buddhism and that like of thing, too. So, I mean, our relationship took a lot of different spiritual turns and twists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This might be a good point to back up a little bit in terms of -- because you mentioned -- and I`ll use the word spirituality, and/or religious beliefs. At the time that you met Matt, where were you spiritually? Was there a particular religion you were a member of? Could you describe that for us?

ARIAS: I was not a member of any denomination. I considered myself Christian. I did not attend church. And I didn`t obey all the commandments that Christianity espouses.


GRACE: Everyone, thank you for being with us tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.