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Jodi Arias Phone Sex Tape Played in Court

Aired February 12, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: The most graphic day in court yet. The defense plays a tape of Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander having phone sex. Wow. Is it X-rated? In between moans, she describes his incredible sexual stamina, and he talks about a sexual fantasy. It`s triple-X-rated.

The defendant hides her face during most of it. But does it prove self-defense or does it backfire on Jodi Arias?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight triple-X-rated phone sex tapes between Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander played in open court. Jodi and Travis share their graphic sexual fantasies, including making porn together. Chills in the courtroom as Travis`s voice is heard from beyond the grave.

Why would Jodi record and save these sex calls? Was she obsessed with Travis? Was it a plot to blackmail him? Do these tapes make Travis look abusive? Or does Jodi sound like an eager participant in sex games? We`ll debate with our expert panel and take your calls.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT (via phone): I don`t mind receiving while you`re doing the giving.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: There`s the phone sex that she recorded.

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): I like how you play whatever role you need to play.

ARIAS: That was fun.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S ATTORNEY: During this phone call, Travis tells her that she sounds like a 12-year-old girl. So hot.

ARIAS (on camera): We were erotic, and he made me feel sexy and attractive. So I stayed on the phone with him.

(via phone): I like being handled. I like being handled. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight the most astounding and sexually explicit day of the trial so far, as the defense plays graphic triple-X-rated phone calls between Jodi Arias and her now-dead ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander.

Do these explicit phone calls prove that Travis sexually degraded Jodi or do they peg her as a very willing participant in very, very, very kinky sex games?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.

The stunning 32-year-old photographer is accused of stabbing her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear, and shooting him in the face. Now she`s trying to prove she did all of that in self-defense.

Jodi hid her face in apparent shame as the defense played this long and extremely graphic sex phone call detailing Travis and Jodi`s sexual fantasies. There`s moans; there`s groans. We warn you this is very graphic, but it is what was played in open court. It`s central to the defense claim that Jodi was sexually degraded and abused by Travis Alexander. Listen to this.


ALEXANDER (via phone): I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all the way.

ARIAS (via phone): Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it.

ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie your arms around a tree and blindfold you. And put the camera on a timer while I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. You are full of ideas.

ALEXANDER: It takes creativity to top ourselves.

ARIAS: I know it does. We`ve gotten way creative in the past. I have to give you most of the credit, though, as far as the creativity ideas go. I`m game for like almost everything you come up with.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "I`m game," she says, and the call didn`t stop there. The jury and the entire courtroom, including Jodi and Travis`s families, heard Travis compare Jodi to a 12-year-old girl. Once again, graphic, but it was played in open court.


ALEXANDER: The way you moan, baby, it sounds like -- it sounds like you are this 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm. It`s so hot.

ARIAS: It sounds like what?

ALEXANDER: Twelve-year-old girl having her first orgasm. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) this hot little girl.

ARIAS: You are bad. You make me feel so dirty.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. What do you think? 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to our senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian. Selin, you were in the courtroom during this entire embarrassingly-graphic phone sex call. What was it like in the courtroom?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, Jodi`s father and brother, who have been in court this week, actually had to step out -- they did not want to be in the room -- before this tape was played.

There was a lot of build-up to this tape being played in the courtroom. The judge addressed the gallery and the audience sitting in the courtroom, saying, "Please do not show any reaction. We`re going to play a very explicit sex phone call tape right now." And she addressed the courtroom before this call was actually played.

But it was very, very uncomfortable. They played this phone sex call with her mother, her aunt, and her sister sitting in the front row on the defense side. And on the prosecution side, we had all of Travis`s family, who all sat through the entire tape.

And it was pretty long. I mean, we heard them having an entire conversation, being playful, laughing, singing, but a good chunk of it was them being extremely sexual.

And I was looking at the jury during the phone sex, and as it was being played, and a lot of them were looking down at their notepads. They couldn`t even look up at her or anybody in the courtroom. Most of them just had their heads down like this as they were listening to the tape being played.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I want to admit something. It was so graphic I went and listened to it in my office and shut the door, because I was too embarrassed to listen to it in front of my staff. That`s how cringe-worthy this tape was. I couldn`t listen to it and make eye contact with anybody else. It was just too much -- too much sex, too much triple-X-rated content.

Jodi testified yesterday that she awoke one night to Travis in the act of having sex with her, i.e., she was raped by him. Well, on this tape, this secretly-recorded or this recorded tape -- she claims that he asked her to record it. We`ll get to that in a second. Well, anyway, she recounts a sex act that sounds eerily similar to that. Listen.


ARIAS: I fell asleep on your chair next to your bed, and you just like woke me up by pulling my pants off and totally licking my (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I remember that was hot.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to our panel to debate this. There was a massive debate in our newsroom. Is this a homerun for Jodi Arias or is it her demise? Does she sound like someone who`s an abuse victim? Or does she sound like an eager, willing sex partner? "Oh, that`s so degrading. I like it."

All right. Let`s start with Wendy Murphy.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: It this tape, aside from making the jury upset, is likely to desensitize them a lot, which is bad for the defense.

And, you know, this is the only time Travis has a real voice, and he isn`t saying things that are remotely like the Travis she`s testified about, the really bad guy who`s beating the hell out of her and abusing her in all sorts of ways. This is terrible for the defense.

But let me be clear. The prosecution is going to make a tremendous amount of this tape during the closing when they say, "Did you hear the tape and did you hear anything go on at all, ever, where Jodi Arias said, `Never mind, stop. I don`t like that`?" Not at all. She was titillated. She was horny. She was moaning. She was loving it. This was pure porn.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Drew Findling -- Drew Findling, however, he does -- he does say on the tape, "I`d like to tie you to a tree and blindfold you and bleep you bleep."

DREW FINDLING, ATTORNEY: This is absolutely demeaning to this woman and all women. And if you -- and I`ve tried so many of these cases. Battered widow syndrome, cases, to a juror, and when they -- I don`t know what world you`re living in. If you have one woman juror on this case -- and you have more than that -- this is demeaning to this woman and all women.

This is not a home run for the defense, but this is something that turns the tide. She said it, and now she has backup for it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Lieberman. I see you shaking your head.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I mean, because here`s the thing. This tape now serves as fact. And the fact is that Travis isn`t acting aggressive or, you know, he`s -- what I`m trying to say is, her statements, we know she`s a liar.

But yet, when we hear the two of them together on this tape, you know, he wasn`t controlling. He was nice. She initiated a lot of the pleasant conversations between the two. It doesn`t jive with the portrayal of the victim that she has been portraying in her testimony. It`s about credibility, and we already know she`s a liar.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to give Jordan Rose a shot, and then we`re going to hear more of this extraordinary phone sex tape.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: She`s absolutely a liar. She contradicts herself over and over again. She loves it on the tape, and then afterwards she testifies it was awful. This is virgin turn vixen, and we watched her turn into a vixen for a few moments during this horrible, awkward tape, and then afterwards, she`s trying to prove that she`s an angel again. Very strange. Very bad for Arias today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s play another clip. And then we`ll continue our debate. During the phone call, Travis and Jodi discuss making a pornographic film together. Though Travis first mentioned the idea on the call, Jodi certainly had some creative input. Listen.


ALEXANDER (via phone): Setting like perfect. I mean, it could be like legitimate porn.


ALEXANDER: In every sense.

ALEXANDER: I`m envisioning one, like, when you`re (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, it seems like she went along with it, but can they kind of explain that away by saying that`s part of the battered women syndrome, to go along with whatever crazy or degrading idea the guy has?

HOLLY HUGHES, ATTORNEY: I think that`s where we`re going with this, Jane. And we need to get beyond the fact that this is a sex tape. These two people never expected the world to be listening in on this private conversation. What they`re setting up is the dynamic between the two.

And no, he`s not raging and he`s not abusive, but what I hear on that tape is a man who`s very dismissive of her. He`s not paying any attention. He`s like, yes, whatever, until she starts talking sexy. Then he wants to engage in phone sex.

OK, but what I hear is a woman trying to please him. She`s obviously in love with him. She`s going along with things.

And yes, there are times she enjoyed it, absolutely. But I think what the defense is trying to do is show you the dynamic of...


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Lieberman.

LIEBERMAN: The inconsistencies. I mean, you know, she said today in public he used to grab her rear end, yet she testified earlier that she was his dirty little secret. I mean, I have pages and pages of inconsistencies that are going to come out at cross.

I mean, she says that Travis forced her to record this sex tape and yet, you know, Travis wanted to hide their sexual contact from the world. So why in the world would he force her to record a sex tape? There`s just...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ve just begun debating this huge day in court. Thank you.

Jurors hearing graphic phone sex tape conversation. We`re going to play you the highlights, or the low lights. Listen.



ARIAS (via phone): You were amazing. You made me -- seriously, you made me feel like a goddess. Like, I wasn`t saying you were like worshipping me but you were -- you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet. Like, I so felt like I was a goddess.



ALEXANDER (via phone) (singing): I love you, for all that you are.

ARIAS (via phone) (singing): (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

(speaking): Have a good night. Sweet dreams.

ALEXANDER: I love you (ph). You have a good night, too.

ARIAS: OK, honey.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The shocked faces of Travis Alexander`s family. Yes, they botched the national anthem and other songs. Then it`s unbelievable how graphic this tape is. That was sort of toward the end after they had both climaxed. Let`s just call it what it is. Although she claims that she was faking it, twice.

On the tape Travis describes his fantasy of tying Jodi to a tree and having anal sex with her. She responds playfully, saying, "How debasing. Ooh, I like it." But she testified on the stand she was not into it, that she was just humoring him. Listen.


ARIAS: I just said, "That`s so degrading." I didn`t want him to feel bad for expressing himself and his fantasies. So I quickly added, "I like ," so he didn`t feel like I was insulting his personal fantasies.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tiffany Davis Henry, sex therapist. Boy, do we need one tonight. So yes, it`s called erotic humiliation.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And a lot of people may not be familiar with why this is a sex game. And some people actually really enjoy it.

HENRY: Some people do really enjoy it, Jane. And what erotic humiliation is, is when one partner tries to gain pleasure or arousal by being humiliated or by humiliating their partner. It could be verbal. It could be physical. It could be public. It could be private. But the bottom line here is that they enjoy inflicting or receiving some type of humiliation, the debasing, as she`s talking about, torture, pain. All of that is pleasurable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I mean, people hear about bondage or people know about bondage from the movies, but this is sort of a subset that may not be as familiar. That it doesn`t necessarily involve whips and chains, that it`s just simply these verbal putdowns and debasement turn both partners on.

Now, is that the same as being a battered woman? And can they mix that up with battered women`s defense? Or is that mixing apples and oranges?

HENRY: You know, it`s a fine line. But I say, this is not about being a battered woman. This is about kinky sex. And what we`re hearing a lot of is a lot of kinky set. And that`s not, for this couple, a bad thing. This is something that was consensual.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it was for this couple.

HENRY: It ended up bad.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It definitely ended up bad.

HENRY: It did end up bad. But in and of itself, it was consensual. What we heard on that tape today was "I agree to do what you just asked me to do, and I kind of like it."


HENRY: So that`s one of the things that we have to remember is, whether -- whatever she says now, you know, is what we`re questioning, but on those tapes, she said, "I`m consenting to it. This is what I want to do. Sounds good to me."

So I can understand why Travis may have said, "OK, we`re good to go with this."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Johnny, Colorado, your question or thought? Johnny, Colorado.


CALLER: What I was just saying is when the defense got on their side, I kept thinking, "Is this all you got?" you know, mockingly. But after, like, watching it, this is really all they have. They really don`t have anything.

Because the bottom line is she had to defend herself from being killed. And that`s where we`re going. And if they`re trying to build it up like she`s being abused, I`m not seeing it. Do they have anything that corroborates this story?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I want to go to Beth Karas. You`re in there. Is there corroboration beyond this audio tape of all of this stuff, including the fact that she claims that they videotaped an actual porno on a very crucial day. Tell us about that.

BETH KARAS, TRUTV`S "INSIDE EDITION": Right. She says the only video they made was on the day that she killed Travis Alexander. Although when photos were restored from the camera that she had thrown in the washing machine, there were photos. There was no mention of video. And we haven`t heard anything about video in this case. Maybe she had a camera that she took with her also. This was Travis`s camera she put in the washing machine.

But I do think that Jonny does raise a good point. It`s really all the defense has left here. And the longer she`s on the stand looking at that jury, crying periodically, letting the jury know mom and dad are in the courtroom, she told them that yesterday, I mean, the more likely it is, it seems, that her life will be spared. They may still convict her of first-degree murder, but twelve jurors may not send her to Death Row.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Dave Hall, Travis Alexander`s good friend, quick reaction to this extraordinary sex tape. Was this a side of your friend that you`d never seen before or heard before?

DAVE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: Definitely a side of Travis that I had never seen or heard before. I knew that he struggled with morality issues with Jodi and that he was working on getting past that in his life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I want to hear more of your analysis on the other side. We`re just getting started. We have so much to debate, so much to play for you. Stay right there.


KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Did you come away with the understanding that Mr. Alexander had a sexual interest in children?

ARIAS: Yes. He kicked me in the ribs, and that hurt.




ALEXANDER (via phone): You introduced me to KY. Did you know that?

ARIAS: I introduced you to KY?

ALEXANDER: Yes, I had never -- I had heard of it, obviously, but I had never used it.

ARIAS: You know, I had never used it. And I had always heard of it until one day I just bought it. Because it`s so cliche and people make fun of it and, you know, but it`s great stuff.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve already seen the naked photos Jodi took of Travis right before he was killed. And take a look at this one moments before his death. It shows him there naked with a bottle of KY jelly nearby.

He says in this phone call that Jodi introduced him to the sexual lubricant, and later on the stand, Jodi admitted that she used to before her relationship with Travis. So essentially, some people were saying, "Well, that looks like she`s seducing him. She knows all about the KY. He doesn`t. He`s the innocent."

She claims, well, he didn`t want to buy KY, because as a Mormon, he didn`t want to be seen going into a store and buying KY, which is obviously a product that you use in conjunction with sex.

I want to go to our very, very special guest, Brian Carr. This is an exclusive interview. This is Jodi Arias`s new friend, you might say. We have video of him in court. There he is, spotlighted there.

Brian, you have been in the courtroom, a regular presence. You`ve visited Jodi almost weekly in jail. So what is Jodi Arias going through right now? We saw her crying today before the start of court. Visibly upset, her eyes puffy. What is she going through as this trial proceeds?

BRIAN CARR, FRIEND OF JODI (via phone): She`s getting very tired. She`s very stressed out. But at the same time, she`s very positive thinking.

It`s really taking a toll on her. It`s very hard for her, especially with the sex tapes going in front of her family. She`s taking it very hard right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did you get to meet her, and why do you want to be such a loyal friend? I know you make it very clear you`re not a romantic interest, not a boyfriend. And we discussed that before you came on. So I want to tell our viewers, you`re not a romantic interest. But how did you meet her, and why are you supporting her?

CARR: Why I`m supporting her is because my sister was in a very abusive relationship. She was beaten numerous times from her ex-husband.

And I went to visit Jodi. I was actually in the area and wanted to give her a supporting hand, reaching out to her. And I actually came to get to know Jodi while I did these visits with her. And yes, I support her. She`s a great person. She`s an amazing person. People have their opinions in America, but I mean, what they`re making Jodi out to be, it`s not her whatsoever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Brian, and this is a friendly interview. I told you -- I said I`m not going to attack you. I don`t want to attack anybody who comes on. I just let them tell their story.

But I guess people say, "Well, look -- look at the crime scene." And she admits that she did it, and she did lie before and she admits she lied. Do you have any understanding of why her story changed?

CARR: Yes, I mean, if you look at her track record, she`s never been in trouble a day in her life. She`s never had problems with her ex- boyfriends, well, in the stories that she told about them. She`s never had any problems. She`s never been in trouble with the law. She`s a scared person.

And that`s one of the -- that`s things you do when you get scared, you`re going to change your stories. And the fear brings out the truth.

Now here she is speaking the truth, saying it was in self-defense, and not one single person out there, including anybody, knows what happened behind -- besides her, behind closed doors. And you really can`t judge that.

Yes, her stories might be a little shaky, but you can`t doubt her either. I mean -- and if you truly got the number, I mean, it`s hard not to believe her. She`s a great person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you say she`s a great person?

CARR: I mean, she`s very talented. She always thinks positive. She has one of the biggest hearts. I mean, it`s something that you have to go see her or actually truly get to know her to understand.

She -- and I have all remorse for Travis`s friends, Travis`s family and Travis himself, but she actually showed proof of her finger being broken where she was kicked in the hand. I mean, she has the proof. I mean, I know her stories have changed. But...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Actually, she also held up, we believe, and we`re going to play it, that same hand and said that the ninjas caused that injury.

CARR: I mean, she explained to me what happened when I went to visit her in jail. She claims that it was Travis, as well. I mean, seeing that right there when I go visit her in jail, I mean, her finger is not the prettiest thing. Her finger is injured, for sure. And it`s not going to heal any time soon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Brian. If I could ask you to stand by. We`ve got to take a very quick break, and we`re going to come back.

We`re also going to hear from Travis Alexander`s friend. Extraordinary how everybody can see the same thing and have wildly different conclusions. Wow, more on the other side.


ARIAS: Always way creative. I have to give you most of the credit as far as the creativity ideas go. I`m game for, like, almost everything you come up with.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have the most incredible stamina that I have ever, ever even dreamed of encountering.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR JODI ARIAS: Travis was still able to use Jodi for his own sexual desires through the phone.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: This is wrong. And I don`t want to be right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s something that seems like has upset Jodi Arias a great deal.

ARIAS: You know what I really like is when we were in the bathtub with the candles and I have the brace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I loved the brace.

ARIAS: Those were hot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her testimony, I think, has become seductive. It`s slowly bringing the jury into the idea that maybe this was what is called heat of passion.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Truly a head-spinning day in the Jodi Arias trial -- the most graphic day yet. Look at the defendant. She`s hiding her face because she`s listening to herself allegedly fake climaxes and have very, very dirty, dirty sex talk with the man she ultimately killed.

And of course, the defense is playing this in the hopes of incriminating the victim, essentially putting the victim on trial and using his own words against him.

So listen to this audio tape, a phone sex tape that she recorded claiming it was at his behest where he talks about, well, listen for yourself. It`s almost hard to describe.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you and Travis ever videotape yourselves while having sex?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And whose desire was for that to take place?

ARIAS: At his. There was just one video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One video. And when was that video made?

ARIAS: On June 4th, 2008.

As I said, that`s so degrading, I didn`t want him to feel bad for expressing himself in his fantasies, so I quickly added, I like it just so he didn`t feel like I was insulting his personal fantasies.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, ok, we are also going to play the audio of the phone sex conversation where Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander talk about doing a very, very triple x-rated thing involving a tree. Listen to this. All right. Well, we`ll play it for you in a second.

All right. I want to go Dave Hall, Travis Alexander`s good friend. You heard that -- now Brian Carr, who is a close friend of Jodi Arias, is visiting her in jail saying she`s a wonderful person. She couldn`t do anything. She`s a fabulous person. I`m not trying to put him down, you know. He`s entitled to his opinion.

But as Travis Alexander`s friend -- Travis isn`t here to speak for himself -- what do you say?

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, you know, Brian is entitled to his own opinion. And Brian has only known Jodi for a few weeks now. I have known Jodi for seven years. I`ve known Travis for well over 10 years. And 12 hours after Travis was murdered, Jodi showed up with my house with that left finger all bandaged up.

So it`s wasn`t the ninjas and it wasn`t Travis months earlier that hurt her finger. It was during the murder when he was defending himself that he might have broke her finger. So stop feeling bad for her.

And I`m past the point of shock and awe at this point about people that are sticking up for Jodi and she did. I mean Charles Manson had his loyal followers. And Ted Bundy has people proposing to him in jail after he admitted, you know, murdering women and stuff like that.

But I listened to Jodi on tape today supposedly having two orgasms and yet getting on the stand saying I was just faking it -- in other words, lying. If she`s already shown she`s such a great liar, why would anyone believe anything she`s saying on the stands? She`s proving that she`s lied and she`s very, very good at lying.

Brian, if you want to help a battered woman, go find someone who honestly has been battered and give them the love and the support they truly deserve instead of someone who is making a mockery out of battered and abused women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Do you want to respond, Brian? I didn`t intend this as a debate, but if you feel like responding, I want to give you that opportunity.

BRIAN CARR, JODI ARIAS` FRIEND: Well, yes. I mean he`s also entitled to his opinion. I mean the talk about Charles Manson or Ted Bundy and Jodi Arias in the same sentence or in the same category is a little ridiculous.

Yes, I mean I haven`t known Jodi really that long, but I mean from what I do know, she`s a big-hearted person. It`s hard for me because my sister was abused. And now to see Jodi be going through this when she had to defend herself because not one single person out there if they can`t get away and call the cops because no one knows what happened behind closed doors. They are going to defend themselves.

No one can really say that she killed him in cold blood. No one can say that whatsoever unless you were absolutely there at the house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me -- I want to play the sound of the tree incident. And that`s from the phone sex call. Then we`re going to debate it with our expert panel. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all the way.

ARIAS: Oh my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to tie your arms around a tree and blindfold you and the put the camera on a timer while I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.

ARIAS: Oh my gosh, you are full of ideas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It takes creativity to top ourselves.

ARIAS: I know it does. We`ve gotten way creative in the past. I have to give you most of the credit though as far as the creativity ideas go. I`m game for like almost everything you come up with


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s bring in our expert panel to debate it.

John Manuelian, two different men seeing the same person and coming up with wildly different conclusions about the character of this defendant -- your thoughts?

JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, and listen to what Mr. Hall said. He`s known Travis for many years and he didn`t know this side of Travis Alexander which makes these tapes very effective. Remember, they`re attacking the choir boy reputation.

There`s another side of Travis Alexander and the name of the game is reasonable doubt. It`s the highest level of certainty and that`s all the defense needs to do. Brick by brick -- build this reasonable doubt.


WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You have to be credible or it`s not reasonable and she isn`t. Look, the tree-tying stuff, what`s so interesting about it is that it never happened. This was fantasy talk, not action. There was no tree tying, none of that ever happened. She hasn`t said that it happened.

What did happen is they took bubble baths. She admits to that. He gave her oral sex for 45 minutes. Hello. Is that an abusive man? Is that an abusive guy? I mean come on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling, ok.



FINDLING: You know, Wendy is a great defender of children and I admire that. And I wonder if she were on a jury she would think this. It`s not only that, you know, all these dreams of every woman to be tied to a tree and anally sodomized and ejaculating on her face. But how about when he said you`re hot like a little 12-year-old girl?

What woman juror and even male juror is --

MURPHY: Listen to me.

FINDLING: No, no, no. What juror is --

MURPHY: She`s making this stuff up.

FINDLING: No, I didn`t make it up. It`s on the transcript. "Hot like a 12-year-old little girl." Who is going to accept that -- Wendy? What juror is --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold on. Hold on, guys, guys, guys, guys.

I want to give the other -- I was going to say contestants -- but panelists a chance to weigh in. We`re going to take a very quick break and we`ll continue this debate on this extraordinary day of trial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he express gratification when you had him on your body?



ARIAS: He said, "That`s hot".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you feel wearing these boys` underwear?

ARIAS: Well, not hot. I felt kind of silly.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are all over the Jodi Arias trial -- special coverage every day at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

We`re debating this extraordinary day. Phone sex, what does it mean? Is it great for the defendant or does it paint her as a willing participant in extremely kinky sex? Debate on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean it looked like she`s already been crying doesn`t she. She looks very sad there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see a red nose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s something that seems like has upset Jodi Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Details on how to present -- they believe anyway - - how to present this phone sex tape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s listened to this tape and knows what`s coming on the tape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge says we have an issue that we have to take up amongst ourselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a mystery right now.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": I knew there was going to be testimony because she wasn`t on the witness stand. She was at the counsel table with her lawyers when the jury walked in. I said, "Uh-oh, something is up."

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what; expect the unexpected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this in light of what is to come, possibly in that courtroom?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re all over the Jodi Arias trial. But we are also tracking an extraordinary man hunt for a former LAPD cop. Chris Dorner, live pictures you`re looking at of a cabin in Big Bear, California. Police have cornered Dorner. We believe a SWAT team is inside. Officers detonated smoke devices at the cabin sparking a huge fire. You may see the smoke from the fire.

Dorner has been on the run since allegedly killing three people February 3rd. You can see live coverage of the standoff on CNN. Wow, what a crazy case.

And back to our extraordinary day in court with Jodi Arias. We`re going to debate the following sound bite. But let`s play it for you first. Travis allegedly compared Jodi to a 12-year-old girl. You can decide for yourself what you hear on this phone sex call. We warn you it`s graphic but it was played in open court and it is central to the defense claim that Jodi was sexually degraded by Travis. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way you moan baby, it sounds like -- it sounds like you are this 12-year-old having her first orgasm. It`s so hot.

ARIAS: It sounds like what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) this hot little girl.

ARIAS: You are bad. You make me feel so dirty


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go back to our panel. Jordan Rose, is this a home run for the defense or is this basically doing the prosecution`s job for them? All right Jordan -- I`m going to switch out to John Manuelian, criminal defense attorney. What say you?

MANUELIAN: Here`s the thing. She`s doing fine on direct, but she`s supposed to be doing fine. This is her moment. But the real question is - - is she going to survive on the cross. If she could survive on the cross, then the defense has a chance of showing reasonable doubt. But that remains to be seen, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, do we have Jordan Rose? Because I want to ask her a question -- she is there in Phoenix, Arizona. What does the prosecution need to do?

The defense has put Travis Alexander on trial. There may be prudes in the jury. What does the prosecution have to do to rip her apart when they start the cross-examination?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: This prosecutor is absolutely going to have a field day with this woman. And in fact, all he has to do is ask her questions because she lies and she rambles. And the more she rambles, the more you see there`s some truth, there`s some lies, you just have no idea. Her only MO and the reoccurring theme in her life seems to be she`s very successful at finding men, exploiting them, having them support her, moving on to the next man, doing all sorts of physical, sexual things with them and then she`s continually regurgitating them. She`s --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I will say this. I will say this. The defense said in court today that Jodi lent Travis Alexander $900 -- Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, very quickly.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. She -- Travis was not supporting her. She was making her own living. They never lived together. He didn`t pay her rent. None of that.

What this tape does is it shows the dynamic. There are times when Travis refers to himself in the third person, you know. He`s talking about what a busy month he has. It`s a busy month for Mr. Alexander.

What they are going to do is they are going to bring on their experts following her psychologist and a domestic violence expert to explain what that type of personality means, who is the submissive, who is the controlling one, even though it`s not your typical battered woman.

I don`t think we`re going to hear that Travis beat the hell out of her on various occasions. What they`re going to try and use is emotional manipulation. And they`re going to say on these tapes, we hear a woman who is saying everything she can to please him, to make him happy.

The other really big important point is -- she was stalking him, Jane, but this is a month before the murder. And she`s actively engaging with her. So it takes away that whole stalking thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a good point.

We`re going to continue on the other side. Hang in right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you thrilled and happy that Travis beat you up?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want to shout it from the rooftops?

ARIAS: Definitely not.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to Oakley -- you are just ready to rock `n` roll. Baby Gracie -- I just think you are delightful. Hanz is very regal, very fantastic. And look at this, The Beasts bunking down. This is adorable.



ARIAS: You`re coming up here before Cancun?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that`s my plan.

ARIAS: You`ll see me and we`ll go Oregon Coast and Crater Lake. And then I guess you`ll go up to, what, see your friends in Washington or something?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not going to do all that. You`re the top of the list.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tiffanie Davis-Henry, relationship expert, the prosecution has painted Jodi Arias as some kind of crazed stalker and that he didn`t really want anything to do with her but, yet, this is about three weeks -- this audio tape was made about three weeks before she kills him, and they`re getting along just fine.

TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: They seem to be getting along famously. It does seem to be an instance of erotic humiliation. However, Jane, I think there is a little co-dependency going on here; people who -- she presents very co-dependent to me. And that`s not to say that I`ve seen her but I`ve seen these characteristics before in individuals that I treat. Putting his priorities before her own, not being cued into the social cues of not really being available. He`s not a man that`s been available to her emotionally and he certainly has her mistaking his sexual attraction for love and affection.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A very good analysis and we will continue our analysis on the other side.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling, is there a possibility here of a hung jury?

FINDLING: Yes, I think there`s definitely a chance. It just takes one juror to equate this perverse behavior, talk of 12-year-old little girls, boys` underwear, tying to trees. Equate that with abuse, whether it be verbal, sexual or physical -- one juror to think that and that hangs the jury up.


HUGHES: Absolutely. I think her testimony humanizes her, being on the stand that long takes the death penalty off the table. If they don`t hang it, Jane, I think that probably what we`re going to see is a compromised verdict, maybe a manslaughter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy, five seconds, hung jury?

MURPHY: I don`t care if the guy fantasized about killing baby kittens, nothing she said justifies murder. End of discussion.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, end of discussion. Thank you all.

Brian Carr, Jodi`s friend, joining Dr. Drew.

And now for more on Jodi Arias and the manhunt -- Nancy Grace.