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Jodi Arias Phone Sex Tape Played at Trial; Ex-LAPD Cop Barricaded in Cabin Now Engulfed in Flames

Aired February 12, 2013 - 20:00   ET



JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I was totally tired and I was asleep, and I would have been completely content just cuddling with you once we got into bed, but you had another agenda! But I don`t mind receiving while you`re doing the kissing. So, like, I was (INAUDIBLE) And so aside from all those warm, fuzzy feelings, like, it was so sexy and I was so hot and -- oh, gosh!

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM: Start touching yourself.

ARIAS: I am already. I was stroking my hand, giving you a hand job.


ARIAS: Are you serious? I wish you were here. If you were here, my grandparents are asleep (INAUDIBLE) shut and lock the door and (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ALEXANDER: Your body is so hot! (INAUDIBLE) You sound like a 12- year-old having her first orgasm.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) put on a little extra makeup. I really, really, really want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) You`re bad! You make me feel so dirty.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. After Jodi Arias tells a jury murder victim Travis Alexander was a pedophile, with nobody in court to refute that or challenge it or tell the truth, today we learn Arias in the weeks before Travis`s murder buys a gun, dyes her hair, and then tape-records herself luring Travis into phone sex. We have the audio. But what does this lurid and XXX display have to do with self-defense?

And we go live tonight, breaking news, Big Bear Lake, California. The manhunt for an ex-LAPD turns into a deadly standoff. As the sun begins to set there at the standoff, we are live.

But first, right now, straight into the Arias courtroom.


ALEXANDER: Well, actually (INAUDIBLE) sounds like you`re a 12-year- old girl having her first orgasm. That`s so hot.

ARIAS: I know. Sounds like what?

ALEXANDER: A 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm, like (INAUDIBLE) a little girl.

ARIAS: You`re mad! You make me feel so dirty!

ALEXANDER: You are dirty. (INAUDIBLE) I just want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with you. I like that term. It`s a marathon. I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it!

ALEXANDER: I just want to tie your arms around a tree, blindfold you, and put the camera on a timer while I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh! You are full of ideas.

ALEXANDER: It takes creativity to top ourselves.

ARIAS: It really does. We`ve gotten way creative in the past. I think I give you most of the credit, though, as far as the creating ideas. I`m game for, like, almost everything you come up with. But you really are a wealth (ph) brain of ideas. You are, like, quite the source.

When we took a bath together?


ARIAS: That was -- that was surreal. And honestly, I think, I mean, maybe the candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it, but you were amazing. You made me -- seriously, you made me feel like a goddess. Like, I wasn`t saying you were, like, worshipping me. But you were -- you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet. Like, I so felt like I was a goddess. And so aside from all those warm, fuzzy feelings, but like, it was so sexy and it was so hot!


GRACE: Everybody, we are live tonight, taking your calls, camped outside that Phoenix, Arizona, courtroom, where today, once again, a travesty of justice unfolds.

After yesterday, I really didn`t think anything could top the judge allowing this woman, Jodi Arias, to tell a jury that the murder victim, Travis Alexander, was basically a pedophile. No one was there to say no, to challenge her, to tell the truth. And then today, the defense brings in a phone sex tape.

We now learn that in the few weeks leading up to Travis Alexander`s murder, this woman, Jodi Arias, dyes her hair black, buys a gun, drives 1,000 miles to get to the murder victim, and also lures him into phone sex and secretly tape-records it. Now it`s a defense exhibit.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to Beth Karas joining me there in front of the courthouse. Beth, what does this have to do with self- defense?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, I think the defense wanted to introduce this tape to show some of the things Jodi Arias said occurred did occur. OK, he had sexual fantasies and they acted on some of them. He wanted to tie her to a tree and do things to her.

There`s nothing on this tape that indicates that he abused her, he was physical with her in any way, but it does show that they did engage in some of these acts. That`s about all I think the defense gets out of this. One could argue the state gets as much or more out of this tape because she certainly seems consensual and willing, at least on the audio.

GRACE: Out to you, Alexis Weed, also joining us at the courthouse. Alexis, again, I still don`t see -- I`m going to repeat my question. What does this have to do with self-defense? If anything, it shows her luring him into a phone sex conversation. Yes, he`s a willing participant. That`s not a crime.

So I just don`t understand what this has to do with showing that the day she stabs him, slicing his neck ear to ear, stabbing him 29 times and capping him in the head -- how does this show self-defense?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, after sitting and listening in the courtroom today for over an hour of these audiotapes, all I kept hearing was two consensual adults engaging in this conversation, this very sexual conversation. And Nancy, Jodi Arias is laughing throughout much of this conversation.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Renee Rockwell, Atlanta, Chris Alexander, veteran defense attorney, New Orleans. And also with me, Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst.

All right, first to you, Renee. Just try to put it in a nutshell for me. Explain to me what, if anything, this has to do with self-defense.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, in the scheme of things, they`re putting a voice to Alexander and making him look kind of creepy and greasy.

GRACE: OK, maybe you didn`t hear that question. What does this have to do with self-defense?

I`m going to go to your protege Chris Alexander, a defense attorney out of New Orleans. Chris, what, if anything, does this have to do with self-defense? The last time I looked in the evidence code, there was nothing in there allowing the defense to prove the murder victim is greasy or debasing. Nothing. Nothing at all.

As a matter of fact, the evidence code shows just the opposite, that dragging the murder victim through the mud is disallowed unless that reputation goes to show the victim had a propensity for violence. And we don`t see that. We don`t see that at all in this tape.

CHRIS ALEXANDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s correct, Nancy. I would have listened to these tapes in camera, if I were the judge. I would have determined if the probative value of any relevant issue in the case is very slim.

But it`s extraordinarily prejudicial against Travis. The defense team wins because this is introduced into evidence. There`s no question. But the probative value is so, so little. The only way it could be beneficial would be if it could demonstrate some degree of psychological manipulation or abuse that made her acts reasonable. That`s the only way it...

GRACE: Psychological manipulation?

ALEXANDER: ... would come in...

GRACE: Manipulation? She`s the one that calls him. She`s the one that lures him. She`s the one that secretly records him in a plan to murder him.

Weigh in, McCollum.

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: She`s the one that is taping him without his knowledge. She`s the one that is setting this whole thing up, Nancy, to make herself look good. Again, this is 50 shades of crap! She is bringing everything sexual that she possibly can into this courtroom to show that she`s the victim. I say let her talk. And on cross- examination...

GRACE: Did you say...

MCCOLLUM: ... they are coming after her.

GRACE: ... 50 shades of crap?

MCCOLLUM: She is full of crap. She is a liar.

GRACE: I like it. OK, Liz, back in the courtroom.


ALEXANDER: Start touching yourself.

ARIAS: I am already.

ALEXANDER: I just started.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) soap on my hands, giving you a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)...

ALEXANDER: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) once I start -- once (INAUDIBLE) once a month (INAUDIBLE) since she`s (ph) left (EXPLETIVE DELETED) every day (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: Are you serious?


ARIAS: I wish you were here. If you were here, my grandparents are asleep, I would bring you in my bedroom, like, shut and lock the door and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) go at it all night. You make me so (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Seriously, I think about having sex with you every day, several times a day. (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) inside of me (INAUDIBLE)


ARIAS: What?

ALEXANDER: I said I`m really glad that we (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ARIAS: Well (INAUDIBLE) I don`t want to be right. (INAUDIBLE) Like, seriously?

ALEXANDER: Seriously, I`m like, OK, Jodi, (INAUDIBLE) Jodi, Jodi (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: Like, I -- I don`t know. What`s wrong is that I wish we were doing it before.


ARIAS: That was good.

ALEXANDER: It must be good, why not do it, yes.

ARIAS: I know what you mean.


GRACE: Everybody, we are live at the Arizona courthouse, but we are also live at Big Bear Lake, California, two sheriff`s deputies wounded in a shoot-out with a suspect believed to be a renegade ex-LAPD, Christopher Jordan Dorner. We are live at both jurisdictions, bringing you the very latest and taking your calls.


GRACE: We are live tonight, taking your calls. In a stunning turn of events, when we thought it couldn`t get any worse for Travis Alexander, Jodi Arias manages to top herself. After claiming he`s a pedophile yesterday in her direct examination under oath, today she brings in a lurid, XXX-rated phone sex tape that she taped of herself egging Travis Alexander on.

This was in the weeks leading up to his murder, during the weeks she dyed her hair, bought a gun, traveled 1,000 miles to get to Arias.

We are taking your calls. Out to Sandy in Illinois. Hi, Sandy. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I know I only have 30 seconds. I`ve got three. I`ll make them really, really fast.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Number one, today in court, she specifically says about the infamous Travis shirt that she probably made up herself -- she said that Travis wanted her to wear that out into the lobby in front of everybody.

Hasn`t she been whining over and over that he would not show her any emotions or any feelings or anything in public or anybody? So doesn`t that catch her in a big lie right there?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Number two, if Travis supposedly lunged at her when he dropped that camera, wouldn`t he have lunged at her for wrecking his Mercedes-Benz? Because she said in the second phone call to the detective, while they were on the phone, she said she wrecked that Mercedes-Benz, and she goes, Oh, he handled it so well. But yet he`s going to lunge at her for a camera but not for a car.

And then, number three, regarding this voice of hers. She is purposely changing her voice on these phone calls to sound like a 12-year- old girl, and kind of like luring him into liking her more because she`ll sound younger and more sexier or something. I think that, like I say, one line for her would be, He`s not that into you, Jodi.

GRACE: Well, you know, I think that that`s something that`s being shown in these tapes.

Let`s go out to psychologist Caryn Stark, joining me out of New York. Caryn, I think Sandy in Illinois has a point. I think that this shows her as pursuing him. And for Pete`s sake, this is a phone sex tape, Caryn. At certain points, he just sounds completely bored.

Can`t you just imagine her driving 1,000 miles to get to him. She`s got a gun and a knife with her. And then he tells her after a day full of sex, a sex marathon, he`s still taking another girl to Cancun. She becomes unhinged.

Here we see her pursuing him, and his own voice shows he`s just not that into her.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: He sounds very disinterested, Nancy, tired. He really sounds tired.

GRACE: I mean, for Pete`s sakes, Caryn, it`s phone sex!

STARK: Yes, Nancy.

GRACE: You`d think he`d be a little more excited, huh?

STARK: No, but she is. She`s very excited and she does sound very young.

GRACE: She`s not excited! She told the jury that it was all a big lie. Come on, Caryn Stark, are you trying to tell me that you really believe all these women on these phone sex lines are really into it? They`re probably watching "When Harry Met Sally" on mute. They`re not into it, Caryn!

STARK: Well, I don`t know, Nancy. She`s certainly trying to encourage him to be into it. And she`s not only going along with his fantasies, but she`s creating new fantasies. And this man is not a pedophile, not somebody who`s responding the way he is to her, even if he sounds bored.

GRACE: Well, what I don`t like is that, once again, she`s dragging Travis Alexander through the mud.

STARK: Right.

GRACE: And the judge is just sitting there, letting it happen. I can`t blame the judge. I don`t hear the prosecution object to a darned thing. Now, there is a chance that the prosecution objected before it was admitted, and he`ll get a smackdown in court if he continues to object throughout this. But I`ll be darned if I would not be raising a ruckus while the victim is being dragged through the mud!

She`s already murdered him, and now she is doing this to him to make him an outcast in the Mormon church.

Everybody, we are live at that Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the very latest, but we are also live at Big Bear Lake, California, two sheriff`s deputies wounded in a shootout with suspected renegade ex-LAPD Christopher Jordan Dorner. The body count has risen at the hands of this ex-cop, now a cop killer.



ALEXANDER: (INAUDIBLE) your body is so hot. (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) just right. It`s just right. It`s just (INAUDIBLE) how female you are, how hot you are (INAUDIBLE) those curves (INAUDIBLE) You`re the prototype. You made (INAUDIBLE) And then, most of all -- oh, I love it! -- is how much detail (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you have.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) I like the things because I`ve always been self- conscious about those things, and you make me feel like...

ALEXANDER: It makes you, like, a super woman.


GRACE: She`s uncomfortable! She`s been having oral and anal sex with this guy -- I mean, the worse -- the more he ignores her, the more she pursues him sexually. And now the defense has introduced phone sex tapes between Jodi Arias that she taped, we believe, secretly of the murder victim, Travis Alexander, leading up to his murder. For what? Why was she taping him?

Out to Alexis Weed, our team member there at the courthouse, basically camped out in front of the courthouse. Alexis, what was her motivation for making these tapes? Now, I know she says Travis Alexander wanted her to make the tape, but do we have anything to corroborate that, or is this just like the pedophilia story?

WEED: Oh, yes, Nancy, it`s just like the pedophilia story. These are Jodi Arias`s words that we`re having to rely on at this point. She said that she had this new phone from Gus Searcy, that she was practicing taping these conversations because it was Travis who wanted the conversations taped, that she tried over and over, that`s why the conversation is a little bit disjointed, but that it was really Travis. She did this at Travis`s request, she said.

GRACE: OK, Beth Karas, joining me from "In Session." Is there anything to suggest she ever sent these conversations to Travis Alexander? What, she wanted -- he wanted her to record him having sex on the phone, then what, keep them for his memoirs later? What? Why did he want her to record these?

KARAS: She said he liked to listen to them again. However, there`s a lot of innocuous talk in the beginning and end. Obviously, it was sexy in the middle of it. But we don`t know of any evidence that she ever sent it to him.

GRACE: What about it, Jane Velez?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Listen, I think that this sex tape could very well blow up in the defense`s face. They ended very strong yesterday, Nancy, and I think that one of the reasons Jodi Arias might have been so upset and crying before court even started is that maybe she and her attorney were arguing about whether to play this. I think it backfired big-time!



ARIAS: I really, really, really want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) right now so bad!

ALEXANDER: (INAUDIBLE) across your forehead.

ARIAS: I think (INAUDIBLE) porn star thing, I`ll put on a little extra makeup (INAUDIBLE)

ALEXANDER: Well, whatever you want (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: Oh, my God! Wow, that would be hot, like, you bust me for being, like, nude in public or something and (INAUDIBLE) and be like (INAUDIBLE) and you`re, like (INAUDIBLE) redeem yourself (INAUDIBLE)



GRACE: What you are hearing is phone sex tapes played in court today for that jury. How this goes towards self-defense, I do not know. In fact, everything I know of the law after trying so many cases, I don`t even know how many I tried, this is inadmissible. The defense claims that this somehow sets up a self-defense theory for Jodi Arias. But what it shows to me is that she is pursuing him, that she lured him into phone sex, tape recorded the whole thing, and this is in the weeks leading up to his murder when she dyes her hair, when she buys a .9 millimeter weapon, when she travels 1,000 miles to get to Travis Alexander, and then kill him.

What was her purpose? Don`t know.

We are taking your calls. We are also live at Big Bear Lake, California, where a standoff is going down at this hour. A standoff with a suspected cop killer. He, himself, a former LAPD. We are live and taking your calls.

Another question out to you, Beth Karas, isn`t Arizona a one-party consent state? I mean, what she did by taping him, I think, surreptitiously, is against the law.

KARAS: Yes, you`re talking about the laws of California, which is where the call came from, and Arizona. However, you know what happened in the end, Nancy, both sides stipulated. They stipulated.


KARAS: The state did originally fight it, but in the end stipulated it. Because you know what, the state probably gets more out of this than the defense, one could argue. And to answer the question we`ve been asking all day, it really doesn`t further self-defense.

GRACE: Everybody, I hear in my ear that there are developments in the standoff at Big Bear Lake, California. We are going to go straight out to John Asbury, staff writer, Press-Enterprise.

John, thank you for being with us. What`s happening right now?

JOHN ASBURY, STAFF WRITER, PRESS-ENTERPRISE: Right now the cabin is in flames, and sheriff`s officials are still waiting to go inside to confirm that Christopher Dorner is still inside.

GRACE: Now, it`s my understanding, out to you, Paul Vercammen, CNN correspondent, joining us in Big Bear, that a few moments ago, he was spotted, Dorner was spotted apparently trying to get out one of the doors but somehow he went back in. What, if anything, do you know about that?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, I`m in the mountains of Big Bear but I`m not near where this happened. So I do not have independent confirmation about him being pushed in or out the door.

I can give you the sense of the time line today, from what they understand, he tried to steal a car very much close to the area where his burning truck was found the other day. He was also confronted by a fish and game official who saw a man in what appeared to be a stolen car coming down the hill. He fired, he Dorner, on the fish and game officer. That officer was unhurt. And as for what happened exactly at the cabin, with him being pushed back in, not sure. But given Dorner`s history (ph) and law enforcement history and the threats he made, he would seem to be someone who would be armed to the teeth, and they said all along while in those mountains involved in this manhunt, they thought that this lethal fugitive would try to go out with a blaze of glory, Nancy. I have to warn you, I`m having a hard time hearing you in these mountains.

GRACE: Likewise. Everybody, joining us, CNN correspondent Paul Vercammen, and he`s there, there in the mountains at Big Bear Lake, California. You are seeing an aerial from KCBS and KCAL showing what`s happening right now.

And I`m going to go back to John Asbury, staff writer, Press- Enterprise. John, again, thanks for being with us.

I have read this manifesto he wrote. He`s not really insane, I would give you that much, but have you read this thing? It`s 20 printed pages. All of his grievances. He goes on and on and on. But where did this whole thing start, John? Bring us up to date.

ASBURY: Well, as far as I understand, he was fired from the LAPD in 2009 following a disciplinary hearing when he said he was falsely terminated for reporting his training officer for police brutality, and then over the last four years, he at some point wrote this manifesto and released it last week, and it led to the murder of an Irvine couple, and then when he was a few days later he was coming through Riverside, and he ambushed a Riverside police car, killing one officer and wounding another.

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. You are seeing an aerial view of what`s going down right now. A standoff from an accused cop killer, a former LAPD officer himself.

I want to go out to John Asbury again. John, this manifesto is very revealing. It is written by the suspect, who is holed up right now exchanging fire with police. Not only is he holed up exchanging fire with police, he`s suspected in the murders of a young woman, Monica Quan, and her fiance, Keith Lawrence. She a basketball, ladies basketball coach at Concordia. All because, we believe, her father, a former cop, represented him in a disciplinary matter with the LAPD.

And joining me right now, a friend of Monica and Keith`s, the murder victims, Ken Ammann is with us. Ken, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Ken, what can you tell me about those two murder victims, Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence?

AMMANN: Both of them had almost everything in common, the most congenial people you ever met. Never, ever either one of them ever riled anyone up to my knowledge. We were all just baffled as to why they were, you know, murdered, when we found out what happened, and now it all makes sense.

GRACE: What can you tell me of them? It`s my understanding Quan`s father, a police officer, actually represented this cop killer at a disciplinary hearing.

AMMANN: Yes, apparently Monica was the main target. Keith Lawrence played basketball for us, was a great player and person. Also just received a job at the University of Southern California`s Police Department, so he also was a cop.

GRACE: How many more lives will be claimed? Right now a fatal, deadly standoff. You are seeing it as it unfolds, Big Bear Lake, California. Deputies already wounded in this shoot-out.

Right now we know the body count is up to four. According to reports, Dorner responsible for all four of those deaths. This cop killer promising to go out in a blaze of glory as he says in his own manifesto.



CINDY BACHMAN, SAN BERNARDINO SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Subject stole a vehicle from the Big Bear area. He fled on foot not far from this cabin that he`s in now. When he barricaded himself in the cabin, there was gunfire exchanged between the deputies, who were the first responders, and the suspect. The suspect has been described as looking similar to Christopher Dorner, and we have reason to believe that it is him. We don`t know if he`s inside. The cabin is on fire now. That`s all I can tell you right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) you saw the lights coming in?

BACHMAN: Of course. We are planning on a long night. It`s an active crime scene. If this is Christopher Dorner here, he`s now responsible for the murder of four people and attempted murder of three others.


GRACE: Well, I`m not there at Big Bear, but I can tell you, it`s him in the cabin. All right? He`s already been sighted in the cabin. The cabin is going up in flames, and he has gunned down I know of two cops. There`s an eyewitness to that. But now there are four bodies. Four bodies, and he is barricaded there in that cabin.

Right now, we understand the very latest is the roads have been cleared for the fire department to come and put out the fire. But what are they going to do about Dorner inside, armed to the teeth? We are taking your calls. We are live in Big Bear Lake, California, where this police standoff is going down. We are also live at the Phoenix courthouse with the latest on the trial of Jodi Arias, charged with murder one.

Straight out to Matt Zarrell. Matt, how did this whole thing get started with Christopher Jordan Dorner, of all people? He`s a former cop himself.

ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy. Well, Dorner made threats as part of his manifesto about getting payback for being terminated from the LAPD. Just days later, on February 3rd is when he killed Quan and Lawrence in an Irvine parking lot. Quan`s father was the one who represented him as part of his disciplinary hearing from the LAPD. Then a couple days later, he fired on two officers in the nearby city of Riverside, California, killing Officer Michael Crane and wounding another officer.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. One of those -- both of them were just sitting at a red light, Matt Zarrell. These two cops were sitting at a red light, minding their own business. One was a longtime veteran. One was a cop in training. And he opened fire. Go ahead, Matt Zarrell.

ZARRELL: Yes. In addition, there were two LAPD officers that were also involved in a shooting with Dorner that morning. One of them was wounded. And now what happened was that just days ago, Dorner broke into a cabin in Big Bear Lake, California, just off of Route 28, and allegedly tied a couple inside and held them hostage until this morning when he tried to leave. When he tried to leave, that is when he came across a roadblock. That is when police tried to stop him. Another shooting ensued. He ended up getting holed up in this cabin that we are seeing now engulfed in flames.

GRACE: And isn`t it true that in his manifesto, he names a lot of people he`s going after?

ZARRELL: Yes, in addition to -- he said he wants to -- he blamed the racism and corruption in the LAPD for his termination. He vowed to wage unconventional and asymmetrical warfare against the LAPD officers. He called this a last resort to clear his name. In the manifesto, it also included messages to various celebrities like Charlie Sheen and Larry David, CNN contributors Jeffrey Toobin and David Gergen received messages, as well as athletes including Tim Tebow.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Melinda in Louisiana. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: Hello?

GRACE: Hi, Melinda. What`s your question?

CALLER: Hi. Is this Nancy Grace?

GRACE: Yes, it is, dear.

CALLER: I adore you.

GRACE: Thank you, thank you. I am overwhelmed with what`s going down right now from the Jodi Arias murder one trial, and now this guy, of all guys, Melinda in Louisiana, a former police officer, an LAPD.

CALLER: I know.

GRACE: And here he is gunning down police.

CALLER: My brother`s a Houston officer, retired. He has been for like 25 years.

I wanted to ask you two questions, if I could, and it`s about Jodi Arias. And it`s important. I`ve been trying to get you for three weeks now. It`s so important. Can I ask you two questions?


CALLER: One about Dorner, is his motive, and how can he be respected as an officer and expect even to get his job back when he`s murdering these officers when he ought to have respect for them and go in there like a man, like an officer of law would do and (inaudible), what he should do, respectfully, instead of taking the law into his own hands.

And the other question is, does anybody really realize that Jodi Arias stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times because of the day that he broke up with her, June 29, 2007?

GRACE: You know, that is a good comparison, Melinda, and I did notice it. We talked about that on my show a couple of weeks ago. There was a brief mention. And it`s a very disturbing coincidence about the 29 stab wounds and the date of the breakup.

But as to the motivation of Dorner, he wants -- he says he`s going to wreak havoc until he is publicly exonerated by the NYPD (sic). Joining me right now, John Phillips, KABC. John, thank you for being with us. What`s the latest?

JOHN PHILLIPS, KABC: Well, as of right now, the only thing we`ve been able to confirm for sure, Nancy, is that the police believe, the San Bernardino County Sheriff`s Department believes that Dorner is in that cabin that`s going up like a Christmas tree right now. There have been conflicting reports as to whether or not he was able to escape. Some people are saying that. However, nobody in law enforcement saying that they can verify that he has left that. They believe that he was there. He did not leave. It is burnt to a crisp right now.

We have heard reports from the owner of the cabin that the cabin does not have a working telephone, it doesn`t have cable, it doesn`t have Internet access. He was in there, we believe, alone, without any contact to the outside world.

The police have had the cabin surrounded ever since late afternoon after a firefight with police officers, where one police officer was shot and killed. Another police officer was shot and injured. He went inside that cabin, and the police had it surrounded. They had all the surrounding roads cut off to this house in the San Bernardino mountains. Police had guns drawn there. Now we`re receiving reports that the guns have been put down. Police officers were smoking cigarettes, so we`re all hopeful in Los Angeles that this thing is coming to a very quick end, Nancy.

GRACE: With me, John Phillips from KABC. John, how did the whole thing start? And how did it escalate to this?

PHILLIPS: Well, it started in Big Bear when we found his car. His car had a broken axle.

VILLARAIGOSA: -- bring Christopher Dorner to justice. And obviously I`m not going to comment on what most of you have seen, as I have, because I`m not in a position to do that. That`s for the representatives of the San Bernardino Sheriff`s Department.

I also want to say something about the men and women and the families who were targeted. I`ve called a number of them over the last few days to tell them that our hearts and prayers are with them. None of us can imagine what they`ve had to go through, what their children have had to go through because of the threats of Christopher Dorner, and I just want to thank the members of the Los Angeles Police Department, who put their lives on the line every single day. Thank you very much.


GRACE: Drama unfolding there at Big Bear Lake. As you see, the flames engulfing that cabin. A police standoff going on right now. CNN`s Anderson Cooper joining us. Anderson, what do you make of it?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we`ve been watching this situation, obviously, and covering it now for several hours. What we are hearing, the latest we`re hearing from our Miguel Marquez is that authorities believe the suspect believed to be Christopher Dorner, but again, not independently confirmed, did not leave that cabin once the fire broke out. So that the suspect, whoever it was, and again, believed to be Christopher Dorner, is still in that cabin.

There is now a report from the L.A. Times that a single gunshot was heard from inside that cabin as authorities began to move in. Again, that we haven`t been able to independently confirm, but the headline at this hour seems to be that whoever that suspect was, they did not leave that cabin once the fire broke out, and it`s very unlikely any suspect was able to survive that fire that we`ve seen, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, Anderson, apparently this is just the end, we hope the end, to a long string of violent behavior by none other than a former LAPD. All of this is some crazy effort -- I know you`ve read this zany manifesto -- to clear his name.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, he`s a suspect at this point, but suspected in the shootings now and the deaths of four people. One sheriff`s deputy from San Bernardino County, who was just killed today in a shootout as he was shot from the suspect inside this cabin, a Riverside County police officer, as well as two civilians, one the daughter of an LAPD police officer who Christopher Dorner blamed as part of this sort of conspiracy that got him kicked off the police force. So it`s obviously -- you know, this is obviously a very confused mind that made a lot of allegations. But police say they`re going to continue to investigate allegations against the LAPD.