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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Does Jodi Arias`s Testimony Help or Hurt Her Defense?

Aired February 14, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Breaking news. A blockbuster new piece of information in the Jodi Arias case. What was she doing? Who was she calling right after killing Travis Alexander? We will talk to somebody live who says he`s got the blockbuster answer. The news next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, a stunning new development in the Jodi Arias trial. A friend of Jodi`s now saying Jodi did something extraordinary that we`ve never heard about before the very night she killed Travis Alexander. Tonight, I will speak to this friend, Gus Searcy, about his new revelation. Could it turn this trial upside-down?

Plus, Travis and Jodi`s filthy, X-rated calls and texts played by the defense in court. We`ll replay them and debate with our expert panel: Is all this dirty talk a game changer or does it simply cement her motive for murder?

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: I woke up, and he was on top of me.

KIRK NURMI, JODI ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How did you feel wearing these boy`s underwear?

ARIAS: They were erotic, and we were -- they made me feel sexy and feel attractive. So I (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This, of course, is the world according to Jodi Arias.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He learned how to deal with his temper by being humble, compliant, and agreeable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi was Travis` drug. He said things and did things and put things in type (ph) that was not the normal Travis we knew.

ARIAS: He body-slammed me and kicked me in the ribs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep in mind: these were two consenting adults. She not only encouraged it. She loved it. She talked dirty back to him. She said, "OH, you`re so bad, but I love it."

ARIAS (via phone): I like being handled. But yes, I totally want to handle you.

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): Mercy, mercy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news in the Jodi Arias case. Never-before-heard information about the very night Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. Did Jodi make a chilling phone call to a friend just a few hours after killing Travis and reveal a secret?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

The stunning 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear, and shooting him in the head. But she says she did it all in self-defense.

Jodi claims Travis was a sexual deviant who sexually degraded and abused her for months leading up to the killing. Listen to this phone sex call she recorded between her and Travis. We have to warn you: The language is graphic, but this was played in open court. This is the now- deceased victim`s voice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER (via phone): I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all the way.

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it.

ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie your arms around a tree and blindfold you and put the camera on a timer while I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.

ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. You are full of ideas.

ALEXANDER: It takes creativity to top ourselves.

ARIAS: I know it does. We`ve gotten way creative in the past. I have to give you most of the credit, though, as far as the creativity ideas goes. I`m game for, like, almost everything you come up with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She said she`s game: "Oh, my gosh. What ideas." But now Jodi`s claiming she was in fear for her life. She was the one, however, who caused these injuries and others like them to Travis Alexander. Look at these autopsy photos. Do you buy her self-defense claim?

Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Jodi and Travis` friend and co-worker, my very special guest, Gus Searcy.

Gus, great to have you on. You have this blockbuster new information about the night Travis Alexander was killed. Tell us. Tell us about the call you got: from whom, what time, what was said.

GUS SEARCY, FRIEND/CO-WORKER OF JODI AND TRAVIS: Yes, this is the thing that I originally called the D.A. on when I first found out she was arrested.

It was about 3:30 in the morning I got a call from Jodi. When I answered the phone, she said -- she was crying hysterically, saying that Travis was dead.

And I asked her, "Do you know what happened?"

She said, "I`m not sure."

I said, "Are you OK?"

She said, "Yes."

And I asked her where she was, if she needed a ride, things like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let me go through the timeline. Then I have another question for you. So Travis was brutally killed on June 4, 2008. Jodi wasn`t arrested until July 15. Cops interrogated her for two straight days at the time they arrested her. Listen to some of that interrogation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is absolutely some of the best evidence I`ve ever had in a case. And I`ve convicted a few people on less than this.

ARIAS: Well, so I`m as good as done?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not for me to say. But eventually those photos will come out. Jodi?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s run through the calendar. Jodi kills Travis on June 4 at about 5:30 in the evening. Gus, you say Jodi called you, hysterical, at about 3:30 in the morning on June 5, about ten hours after she killed him. His body is discovered a few days later, on June 4, but Jodi is not arrested until July 15, OK?

Now, you waited until July 15, more than a month, to contact police or try to call prosecutors? Why not dial 911 immediately after you hang up with Jodi?

SEARCY: Well, when I called her, I didn`t realize what had happened. All I knew is she said he was dead. And I said, "Do you know what happened?"

She said, "No."

And I said, "Are you OK?"

And she said yes.

I said, "Do you need a ride or anything?"

And she said, "No, I`m going to rent a car."

I said, "Well, let me know what happens." And...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, whoa. Did she call you or did you call her?

SEARCY: She called me. It was 3:30 in the morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.

SEARCY: And the phone records will verify that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So now the body is not found until several days later. You`re a colleague of this victim, Travis Alexander. Obviously, everybody is going to know he`s missing. And then when they find his body, stabbed repeatedly, they`ve got to know somebody killed him. Why not call, like when they find the body and they`re looking -- actively looking for a killer?

SEARCY: Well, first off, you have to understand what was happening. If you recall, Travis was leaving the next day to go on a trip to Cancun. So was I. I actually left on that trip to go to Cancun. I was in Cancun for about a week.

I came back, and I wasn`t really following all of this. It wasn`t until I heard she was arrested is when I then called the D.A. Because before that, I didn`t know that -- I didn`t know anything. I knew she knew she had died. I didn`t know why. I hadn`t followed the case. And then when I heard she was arrested is when I called the D.A. and left a message. I didn`t say why I called. I said, "I have some information." And he never called -- they never called me back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And why do you think he never called you back?

SEARCY: I have no idea. You know, I have a saying, you should know what you`re saying "no" to. And he didn`t have a clue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, I want to bring...

SEARCY: So no one asked.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in our attorneys, our legal panel. Stand by, Gus, because we will have more questions for you. Fascinating.

Let`s bring in our expert panel: Jordan Rose; prosecutor Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor Gia Longarzo, defense; Jayne Weintraub, defense; Brian Silver, defense. So we`ve got a potpourri.

Wendy Murphy, you`re hearing that, like everything in this case, it cuts both ways. She calls this guy reportedly, Gus, hysterical about ten hours after she kills Travis Alexander. The significance?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, look, I would have probably at least sent a cop to speak to Gus to see what he knew. But you have to remember, they probably by that point in time felt that they had a very good case based on the forensic evidence, based on whatever else they were developing. And you can`t respond to every nut who calls you when there`s a profound murder case and says, "Call me. I know some stuff you might want to know."

I mean, Gus should have said -- Gus should have said, "Here`s what I have. I have information because the accused..."

GINA LONGARZO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Can I jump in here?

MURPHY: ... called me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Gina, your thoughts?

LONGARZO: Gus Searcy is one of the first witnesses for the defense. He also testified that she dressed conservatively and femininely at work, and that she was a good employee, OK?

And now you have police officers interrogating a young woman who I believe at that time was temporarily insane, taking advantage of her, making her waive her Fifth Amendment right to silence and questioning her when she did not have an attorney at the time. In my world...

MURPHY: That is -- you should be on the "Twilight Zone" channel. What are you talking about?

LONGARZO: You should see in the courtroom...

MURPHY: What are you talking about? Why don`t you say they coerced her confession? That`s outrageous. That`s not even an issue. No one is even accusing them of coercing her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to give somebody else a chance here. Jordan Rose, you`re out there in Phoenix. What do you think about this and the significance and the fact that the D.A. didn`t call him back?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I guess what I would first say is, Gus, my man, were you worried about contempt of court? No disrespect. I don`t know Gus, but I don`t really understand how this wouldn`t have come out, why he wouldn`t have brought it out on the stand.

And to really -- to believe that this is what occurred is very difficult for me. I`m having a very hard time.

And again, no disrespect, Gus, but I just am having a very hard time with this. If a woman calls you and says, the guy is dead. You know the guy. You might ask some questions, just thinking you would. And you might follow up before you go to Cancun, and while you`re in Cancun. He works for your -- goodness sake, he works for your company. I just don`t get that.

So I`m just having a fundamental problem with this information now when your testimony sounded like an infomercial for Prepaid Legal services.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Gus, I want to give you a chance to respond.

SEARCY: OK. Well, first off the infomercial, that`s what I was told to do, so that`s what I did.

I called the D.A., and if you recall the prosecutorial misconduct hearing, he -- the attorney even admits that I contacted him twice and that he never called me back. I can`t control what he does. I called two times, and I sent a message a third time...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gus, I guess the point is, after you hear -- after you hear at 3:30 in the morning, oh, my colleague is dead and you hear this girl calling hysterically, and she says, "I don`t know what happened," were you curious whether he died of a heart attack because he went to the -- whatever that place is in Las Vegas where they serve those burgers? Or were you curious maybe that he had had an accident or maybe it was a kill - - I mean, where is the curiosity there as to how he died?

SEARCY: OK, first off, he was not a close friend. He was an acquaintance of someone I met a few times. And unfortunately I`ve had several people die in -- that I know that have been in the business: from cancer, car accidents, from things.

She was hysterical. I said, "Do you know what happened?"

She said, "No."

I asked if she needed a ride.

She said, "No."

I said, "Let me know what happens." And then I left to go on the trip that I was already scheduled to go on. I was gone. I never got much information back about that. Then I found out she was arrested, and that`s when I called the D.A.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I buy it. I buy it in the sense that I`m thinking -- putting myself in your shoes. If I`m not really close -- I mean, we work in these organizations that have many, many people. You hear about that, and then it`s interesting and then you move on if you`re not really personally connected to that person.

However, Gus has been a very good sport to take some of these tough questions from our legal panel. Thank you, Gus.

On the other side of the break, Gus, I know you have some more information you want to give us. So we`re going to learn about a couple of things that you saw between Travis and Jodi that are fascinating. So thanks for sticking with us. And we`re going to get to you right on the other side of the break.

And we`re taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (via phone): Eventually we are both going to marry people, and I just get the feeling that there aren`t a lot of Mormon guys like that. And there may or may not -- I`m sure there are a lot of freaky Mormon girls, but are they the marrying type? I shouldn`t say that. I`m just saying, are they the type that you`d want to marry, or are the guys out there the type that I`d want to marry?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I went into the bathroom and it`s a motor home, so it`s a very small, cramped bathroom. And he wanted a photo, and I just leaned forward and did the best I could.

NURMI: What did he want a photo of?

ARIAS: My butt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And she`s saying she took photos of her buttocks and sent them to Travis at his insistence in the motor home of Gus Searcy, who`s our very special guest tonight.

I want to warn you: the material you`re about to hear from court, very explicit. Jodi covered her face in her hands as her attorney read aloud text messages from Travis to her. Keep in mind, her parents were right there in the front row. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NURMI: He also says, "You`ll rejoice in being a whore that`s sole purpose in life is to be mine to have animal sex with, and to please me in any way I desire."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gus Searcy, our very special guest, a friend of Jodi Arias and knew Travis Alexander, as well. A lot of people are saying this defense of degradation is a crock.

You spent time with Jodi and Travis. Did you ever see anything with your own eyes at all that would indicate that Travis had a temper? That Travis could have possibly been abusive or not?

SEARCY: Yes. What happened was, I happened to be coincidentally in Las Vegas. I was speaking at a briefing in the local market there, and I got a call from Jodi, and she was very upset. She had had a fight with Travis. He had threatened her in some way; didn`t get into detail of what. And she didn`t know what to do.

And I said, "Look, I`m only a couple hours away. Why don`t you come to Las Vegas? You can spend a couple of days in the motor home and calm down," and so she came.

And when she was there in the motor home, we had been talking about stuff, and the phone rang and you could see on the phone -- I actually bought her this phone, ironically, because it`s the phone that did the recording. And Helios had the ability to record calls.

And it was Travis on the line. And when she was talking to him, she was trying to kind of get off the phone with him and he -- you could hear him yell. He goes, "Damn it, Jodi," and when he yelled at her like that, she like ducked like she was ducking a bullet.

And then she looked at me and she got embarrassed. And that`s when she went outside and talked with him for about a half an hour. And then she came back in, and she was crying and shaking.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was shaking and crying. And she has testified that she would often shake like a Chihuahua, and I have a couple of Chihuahuas. So people always say, "Oh, I think of you" when we hear that sound bite.

I don`t know. She would say that she was shaking like a Chihuahua, and as this relationship kept deteriorating, she seemed to almost be on the verge of some kind of mental breakdown.

Let`s hear that sound, and then we`re going to debate it. Is this a bunch of nonsense or is there some validity to it? Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NURMI: If he would get mad at you, you would shake?

ARIAS: Yes, it was like my nerves, like kind of like how a Chihuahua shakes. You know, I would just kind of tremble a little bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Expert panel, we`ll start with Jayne Weintraub. I mean, some people are saying this is a crock, that you heard that they had an argument that Gus overheard. But anybody here who hasn`t had an argument with the person they`re dating, please raise their hand. OK. Nobody is raising their hand. Start with Jayne Weintraub.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not going to answer that question. As far -- I`ll take the Fifth.

But as far as whether or not he was -- Travis was witnessed being abusive, you know, Jane, the battered wife syndrome is around because people don`t do that in front of other people. We don`t know, unless Jodi tells us, how she was feeling, how she was controlled.

You know, it`s easy for us to sit back on the other side of a lens and say, "Why didn`t you walk out? Why didn`t you just leave him?" But the truth is, it is a valid defense based on evidence. And we have not heard all of the evidence.

What we do know is that Travis was obviously leading a double life. We`re not sitting here to be disparaging to Travis. This is her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

WEINTRAUB: This is what she`s told her lawyers. She is on trial for murder. something happened there, and we don`t know yet what it was. But we do know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s interesting, Wendy Murphy, is that Jayne Weintraub started out as being on the prosecution side of these panels, and she flipped. Could jurors be flipping, Wendy Murphy?

MURPHY: Well, I`ve got to take Jayne out for a drink. I`m going to fix her up good. No, they`re not going to flip. Look, they`re being distracted, titillated. It`s a big fat red herring, all this sex talk. It gets people -- it gets people unfocused. And that is the purpose of the defense. When the case is really strong, the defense needs a big distraction.

But make no mistake about it, when the prosecution has its turn -- and by the way, they`re not objecting to all the leading questions; 90 percent of the defense questions are leading. It`s so objectionable, but they`re letting it go, because they want this to end. They can`t wait to get up and play the other parts of the tapes, where Jodi will be the sexual aggressor, where it will be clear that Jodi is the one making this guy feel these things, do these things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

MURPHY: She`s the seductress, not him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian.

MURPHY: We haven`t heard the rest of the tapes yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, Brian, I want to give you a chance.

BRIAN SILVER, ATTORNEY: You`re not going to believe this, but I actually agree with Wendy in part. Here`s my issue.

I do believe that there`s a valid defense here, and I do believe that there is a question, there is a possible reasonable doubt about whether or not she was upset and abused, et cetera, et cetera.

But what`s going wrong here is the delivery. They can`t drag this out for seven days. They`ve got to hit their points like dropping bombs. Boom, boom, boom. They can`t go over every little detail, talk about every little thing. Because that`s where you lose your jury. They`ve got to stick to the point, delivery it, get in and get out, and tell their story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I disagree with you. I think they`re mesmerizing the jury into some kind of hypnotic state. Sometimes I`ve got to say, "Oh, you know." This is like a one-woman show. I`ve been calling it "The Vagina Monologues," because it`s going on and on. And is she mesmerizing and hypnotizing the jury, as she has so many men?

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My friend is dead in his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi M. Arias...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... count one, first-degree murder, premeditated murder.

WILLMOTT: Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone lately?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has.

ARIAS: I wouldn`t use "obsession." It was a two-way street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caused the death of Travis V. Alexander.

ARIAS: I need to be honest, the evidence is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER: The way you moan, baby, it sounds like -- it sounds like you are this 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm. It`s so hot.

ARIAS: It sounds like what?

ALEXANDER: A 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) this hot little girl.

ARIAS: You`re bad. You make me feel so dirty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So one thing we can establish for sure, Jodi and Travis had a very kinky, sexual relationship. But was it consensual, two- sided, her an eager participant, or did it cross the line into abuse, therefore, allowing her to argue "I`m a victim of domestic violence, a battered woman, and I killed him in self-defense"?

Jean Casarez, when she finally gets off the stand, what will they do with their domestic violence expert to connect the dots?

JEAN CASAREZ, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": You know, I think that they will use everything. And I think that`s why the defense is going through everything. And I think they will make it the cycle of violence. They`ll look at the power and control.

And when you listen to those phone calls and read those text messages, they will conclude there was power and control over Jodi, and then they will go into the domestic violence and how one thing spirals to another.

And they`ll also use his, they say, affinity for young little boys to say that she then knew his dirty little secret, and that made her at risk for his violence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And by the way, good job there getting Gus. That new information first came from your interview. So well done.

Wendy Walsh, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox," psychologist, what`s fascinating here -- excuse me -- is that you have this kinky relationship. All right.

Many, many millions of American women and women around the world are reading "50 Shades of Gray," and we had a debate last night whether this phone sex talk is kinkier than "50 Shades of Gray" or it isn`t.

So with all these women -- first of all, why are women intrigued with these kinds of relationships? Why do women want to be dominated and degraded in some cases and consider it fun?

WENDY WALSH, AUTHOR, "THE 30-DAY LOVE DETOX": Well, I`ll tell you one reason, because in an S&M relationship, the power actually lies with the bottom. Because remember, the top is doing all the serving. The bottom is the one who`s being served to and getting their needs met.

So if they`re women wanting to be a bottom, it`s because they want to be able to have that sexual power that men have.

But I think in this case, this isn`t a classic S&M relationship where two people made a contract with each other, they had code words so if they went -- did something that felt uncomfortable, they knew that a code word meant you would stop. None of that.

This is more what I would call a traumatic bond, where these people, unconsciously, made a hand shake with each other to key into each other`s deepest pathologies, if you will.

In other words, she wanted to please a man, wanted to get him to love her, would do anything, morph into anything to make him love her. And of course, he`s acting out this kind of chaotic side of his interior from his past life before he became born again, if you will.

Does this mean that it`s OK to murder? No, because this isn`t part of the law. This is psychology. And I think that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does this have to do with -- when you say -- because obviously, he has taken a vow of chastity, and so had she. They weren`t supposed to have sex outside of marriage, and they could not live up to that high ideal or that ideal. So sex outside of marriage, therefore, is dirty, is wrong, is morally wrong. So therefore, they make it dirty and wrong. Is there a certain logic there?

WALSH: Absolutely. That`s a really great way to think about it. Because remember, so now there are lots of wonderful people who have -- who are upstanding and moral and ethical naturally who follow certain religions.

But there are also people who are attracted to really strict religions, because they`re searching for boundaries. They want to think of God as a big cop in the sky. They`re looking for rules and regulations to help stop themselves.

Because both of these two had somewhat chaotic interiors. And, you know, pretty traumatic childhoods, I think.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Much more here with Jodi and Travis` friend, Gus Searcy, Jodi`s mentor, on the other side.

Then top of the hour, Nancy Grace talking to a friend and co-worker of Jodi`s. That`s 8 p.m. Eastern.

But we`re going to debate this phone sex and the sexting on the other side and play you more of the most outrageous testimony in evidence in this incredible trial, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NURMI: If he would get mad at you, you would shake?

ARIAS: Yes.

NURMI: Did this shaking, did that begin before or after the beatings began? (

ARIAS: Before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I walked in and Travis was on the bed [(EXPLETIVE DELETED). And I got a little embarrassed. It was a picture of a little boy. 5-ish, 5, 6, I`m not a good judge of age. He was dressed in underwear like briefs. I was frozen there for a minute and I just ran. I got nauseated and ran inside and threw up in the bathroom.

I kept thinking what if he was hurt as a kid and it made me angry to think of him as a kid and somebody violating him. I wanted to talk to him and find out what was wrong -- like what was going on with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi has regaled us on the stand for several days now with phone sex and sexting and the story of catching Travis, she alleges, pleasuring himself to photos of young boys. If this photo about Travis and this story about Travis is true and let`s remember we only have Jodi`s word for it, does it now set up Jodi to, when she gets to the day of killing in her testimony, claim that Travis actually wanted to kill her because she knew his secret desire for young boys, almost like giving him a motive for murder and turning the tables.

This is what I kind of predict the defense is going to do as they get closer to the actual moment of the killing. Let`s debate it with our expert panel starting with -- let`s see -- we`ll start with the defense now. How about Gina Longarzo?

GINA MENDOLA LONGARZO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you Jane. I have to agree with what Wendy Walsh had just said about her and him. And I have to say, they both kind of had rough childhoods, especially she did.

And this whole issue of "Shades of Gray" and women, I think she was just looking for someone to kind of reel her in. He seemed like this cool guy, although he really wasn`t. He was a Mormon who told her that it was ok to have anal sex because that doesn`t count as premarital sex. And I think she just really had this very crazy relationship where she was truly a sexually, emotionally, psychologically battered woman.

And so now all these texts, all these messages are coming out. I think these texts are going to help her at the end of the day. Because remember, 12 jurors all have to agree beyond a reasonable doubt that she should get the death penalty. I don`t think that`s going to happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me jump in here and say Jordan Rose, one thing is to say oh, I`m a battered woman. Another is to say that Travis Alexander actually plotted to rub her out -- two totally different things. They`re reaching a fork in the road here. Maybe that`s why they`re stalling because they have to make a decision. What exactly are they going to say happened on the day that Jodi killed Travis Alexander -- Jordan.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re not stalling, Jane.

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: That`s right. She`s almost taking a page out of the --

WEINTRAUB: The jury is listening to her and looking at her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Let me give Jordan a chance.

ROSE: She`s almost taking a page Jane out of the crazy person handbook and she`s going, well, what kind of a defense do I do here? It`s self-defense. Ok. So now we do not have one person who has seen him abuse her, hit her. What we have is Gus saying that she cried on the telephone. They had arguments.

WEINTRAUB: Oh my God, is there no one saying that?

ROSE: We`ve all raised our hand -- we don`t have arguments. I believe that this is quite insulting to real victims of domestic violence. I mean it is just ridiculous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne -- I still --

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: I want one witness that says that he says --

LONGARZO: But batterers do not tell people --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, no interrupting people. One at a time, I`ll make you raise your hand.

No, but seriously. I`m trying to get to the fork in the road here. Is she going to claim that she was just a battered woman or is she going to claim that he targeted her? He wanted to rub her out and his motive was that she knew his dirty little secret of alleged desire for young boys? Which one are they going to do? Jayne Weintraub?

WEINTRAUB: Jane, they are number one, they`re letting this all be told. They are letting her tell what happened to her as a process. The jury is looking at her every single day, and they`re having to listen to her. They see her cry. They see her laugh. They see her as a human being not as a quote, "serial killer/murderer". And they have humanized Jodi in front of the jury. That`s number one that the defense has done.

By letting this all come out so that it builds up until you point where you see what it led to. And I don`t think that you`re going to hear Jodi Arias say he was plotting to kill her. I think that something happened that she was frightened and that she felt she was in imminent fear. He had such control over her.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: And as far as --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`ll give Wendy Murphy a second to respond. Yes, let`s give Wendy a chance to respond. We want to be fair here.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: There`s no doubt they`re going to say -- she`s going to say he raped me, he threatened to kill me, he, you know, ejaculated on my face. She`s going to say as many disgusting things as she can as the (inaudible) and therefore I had to kill him, slice him 30 times, cut his head off, shoot him in the -- here`s why it`s not going to work and the jury will laugh out loud. She drove there from California to Arizona with the weapons in the car. Gas cans in her car so she wouldn`t have to stop and be caught on video filling up the tank.

It was a planned execution because of a very typical motive that if the gender roles were reversed, we would understand. He was going away with another woman. This is a woman who said "If I can`t have you, no one can." We know it when it`s a guy, we need to get it when it`s a woman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, we`ll take your calls. More debate. Wow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a checked (ph) conversation we heard in evidence earlier where he calls you a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wonder?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a slut?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a whore?

ARIAS: Yes, and many other things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What other things do you recall him calling you during that conversation?

ARIAS: He called me a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He tells me I`m worthless and he tells me (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh, we`ve been waiting for Jodi Arias to get to the day that she admittedly killed Travis Alexander. And we keep waiting, she keeps telling stories, she`s saying she reads poetry. It`s like a one-woman show. When will we get to the moment of truth?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He also says in this message, "You are the ultimate slut in bed." What did that mean to you? Is there some history behind that?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that history?

ARIAS: Sometimes he would call me that when we were having sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So the text messages purportedly from Travis Alexander to Jodi. A demeaning text that the defense is presenting to show that he degraded her sexually and that they had this S&M abusive relationship.

Let`s go out to the phone lines, Kim, Utah, your question, Kim?

KIM, UTAH (via telephone): Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

KIM: I love what you do for animals. I`m an ASPCA guardian and I own two rescue dogs myself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good for you. Thank you.

KIM: My thought on this whole case is we still don`t know yet who initiated all this kinky stuff. You know, it could have been her. Travis isn`t here anymore. All the sex tapes or telephone calls and the texts and everything, in my opinion, I think the defense is trying to make the jury hate Travis. But even with the domestic violence and all that, I agree it`s still going to come down to the fact that she traveled there and made all those preparations to kill him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Kim, thank you for what you do for animals and thank you for your very interesting observation.

Gus Searcy, again, our very special guest, you testified in the trial. You`re a friend of Jodi Arias. You also knew Travis Alexander. Now, he was 30 years old -- considered old by Mormon standards to be single. In fact, somebody referred to him as the old guy in the ward or the old man in the ward, which is a -- the ward is a Mormon phrase.

Did he have a reputation? You worked with him in prepaid legal. Does any of this ring true as far as what you knew about him? Did he have a reputation? Did he seem like somebody who had a double life whatsoever?

GUS SEARCY, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS: Well, what I knew is that he was going out with Jodi on one hand, but on the other side he was throwing it in her face all the time as he was going out with other good Mormon girls. That`s when I talked about she was being used because on one side he`s out there dating these other women but keeping her on the side. So that`s the only thing that I actually experienced with him.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second Gus. You`re saying that you had a talk with Jodi that she was being used? Tell us about that.

SEARCY: Yes, because like I said, when I work with people, I find out what`s going on with them. And it was very evident to me because they kept -- you know I talked with her, "How are you doing?" We talked a couple times a week. And, you know, one moment they`re fine, the next moment they`re breaking up, the next moment he`s got a new girlfriend. The next moment they`ve back together.

And I`m going, you know, this is not a good thing for you to be in. You need to get out of something like that. That`s why I had her come to the motor home that day when she was upset to get way -- trying to get her away from everything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think she was a battered woman or do you think that she`s basically a kinky girl who was engaged in consensual kinky sex?

SEARCY: No, there was definitely an unusual addiction of some sort going on there. I can`t -- I`m not a psychologist. I don`t know that kind of thing. But he could -- you know, he could command her to do things. She was trying to get off the phone. He cusses at her and all of a sudden she goes out and talking to him for half an hour. So there was some kind of a control there of some sort.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Walsh, author of "30-Day Love Detox", we`ve all been in situations, I think, where we know that we have an unhealthy relationship with somebody romantically. We`re not standing up for ourselves and we might be acting like a doormat a little bit. I think that resonates with a lot of people. Not just women, but men.

There are, by the way, erotic humiliation scenarios where men are erotically humiliated by women -- that happens all the time or same sex. I mean it`s a part of the human condition. But do you think that this would resonate given these T-shirts, "Travis Alexander`s", et cetera, et cetera with some women who might feel resentful about some guy in their past that walked all over them and say subconsciously this is my chance to even the score?

WENDY WALSH, AUTHOR, "30-DAY LOVE DETOX": Yes, but there are more men on the jury than women. And I do agree with -- what you`re describing, Jane, is what I call an anxious attachment disorder, where they become attached, they become intertwined but in a way that`s filled with lots of anxiety about being abandoned or being taken advantage of, and sort of this trying to get away from it. It`s very, very difficult emotionally.

But the makeup, the gender makeup of the jury is going to be at issue here. Are the men, the 11 men and 7 women, are the 11 men being drawn in and seduced by her. Or are they imagining, as many of them are fathers, that she -- this could happen to their daughter and this is a terrible thing? I think the women may more resonate with her emotional experience than the men that`s for sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very good analysis. And we`ll have more analysis on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about feeling like you had been raped but you enjoyed every delightful moment of it. Did you want to feel like you were raped?

ARIAS: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Bijoux, I love you. And happy Valentine`s Day, Marie Antoinette. I hope they all eat cake for St. Valentine`s Day. Piper, you are stunning. And look at Popcorn and Dexter -- what a happy couple. Happy Valentine`s Day to all the animals on earth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But how about feeling like you`ve been raped, but you enjoyed every delightful moment of it? Did you want to feel like you were raped?

ARIAS: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another text purportedly from Travis Alexander. Selin Darkalstanian, our senior producer, you`ve been in court. You`re very objective; you play it right down the middle. Do you feel as a human being, as a woman, have you been swayed in any way shape, or form by these days and days and days of her testimony?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: No, Jane, I haven`t. In fact, I have to tell you because it`s going on for six or seven days and we`re not even getting to the actual day of the murder, it`s almost like her voice is becoming -- it`s like you`re draining her out.

She`s giving too much detail. She put the plants in the u-haul and then on the day she was moving out, she put a seat belt over the plants so the plants wouldn`t fall out. And the judge is letting all this testimony in. And you`re starting to lose track of what she`s actually saying because there`s almost too much detail coming out.

And I was talking to some of the public sitting in the courtroom yesterday. There was one girl who drove there from California to Arizona and I asked her what is she waiting for? She said she`s just there to see Juan cross examine her Jodi next week. She can`t wait for that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, shades of the Casey Anthony case with people driving cross country to get in the courtroom. And boy, that cross- examination is going to be something else.

On the other side, a theory about premeditation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I fell asleep on your chair next to your bed and you just like woke me up by pulling my pants up and totally licking my (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I remember that was hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gus Searcy, a friend of Jodi Arias`. You have a theory about premeditation. What is it?

SEARCY: Well, I know there`s a lot of talk about all of this, she drove the car all those miles. I think what happened is he got on the phone, told her to come. She came and if you can say premeditation that`s fine. But he`s big enough to beat the crap out of her. Excuse the French. But that`s the truth. If she was really going to kill him premeditated, why not kill him when he opened the door or after they made love when he was sleeping? Shoot him in his sleep. Why fight with him? That would make no sense whatsoever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That is your theory. We have only a couple of seconds. Let`s go to our panel and my question, is the death penalty off the table in terms of a decision that the jury might make?

Starting with Brian Silber.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think they absolutely raise a very important question, and that`s what this is about. If they can raise one issue, one question --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes or no.

SILBER: -- not to impose it, I would say no, she may not get the death penalty. But I do think they`ll find her guilty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy, he used up all the -- it`s ok Brian. Yes or no, Wendy?

MURPHY: I think she`s going to get the death penalty and they`re going to give it to her with a vengeance once they figure out what a lying piece of crap she is on cross-examination.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gina. Gina, yes or no.

LONGARZO: She`s so not getting the death penalty and I would bet you money on that. I`ve actually worked with real battered women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re out of time. Thank you, fantastic panel.

Nancy is next.

END