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Jodi Arias Finally Speaks about Day of Murder

Aired February 19, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: An extraordinary sex-drenched day in court. Jodi Arias paints a portrait of the very day she stabs and Travis Alexander, claiming Travis tied her up and performed a sex act on her, then had a temper tantrum, and then insisted on sex again in a forced manner that she claims she put up with to placate him. Will the jury buy it?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, the moment we`ve been waiting for. Jodi finally describing the day she brutally kills Travis Alexander. Does she admit or deny having a gun and a knife when she arrives at Travis` house on the day of his death? Will jurors buy anything that she says went on in this house of horrors?

Also, the defense rolls out angry texts from Travis calling Jodi a sociopath and the worst thing that ever happened to him. So why were they having sex just hours before she kills him? We`ll debate it with our expert panel, and we`re taking your calls.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: If I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense calls Jodi Arias.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miss Arias, please stand to be sworn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She could be sentenced to death.

ARIAS: If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.



NURMI: When he swore at you?


NURMI: When he called you a whore?


NURMI: A slut?


NURMI: It says, and I quote, why don`t you have him (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ARIAS: He attacked me. I was defending myself.

Started shaking again. Whenever he got mad it was like was like being in an earthquake.

NURMI: Was it your ultimate goal in life to be Mr. Alexander`s whore?


NURMI: Did you want to feel like you were raped?

ARIAS: No. I felt bullied, like it was just miserable.

(via phone): We are creative. Seriously, they write novels about this stuff and it sells.

(on camera): I believe it`s something that comes from my faith, my religion, is that it`s commanded of us to forgive all people.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: The person who admitted to this killing sits in court today.

ARIAS: I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, the moment of truth. It`s the dramatic explanation the jury has been waiting for in the Jodi Arias murder trial. Jodi breaks down as she testifies about having sex, lots of it, with Travis just hours before she kills him. She also talks about a graphic and kinky photo shoot and making a sex video.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

The beautiful 32-year-old photographer is accused of stabbing her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slicing Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear all the way back to the spine, and shooting him in the head. And now she`s trying to prove she did it all in self-defense.

Jodi explained how, in the hours leading up to the killing, Travis tied Jodi up with a rope during a sex game. Pay attention to how she explains the existence of the knife that she ultimately used to stab Travis to death.


ARIAS: He wanted to tie me up again. He had done it before, and it didn`t work out. It was a decorative rope. I don`t know how to describe it. It was green and gold. He cut the rope. He measured it out somehow in the bathroom. He used one of the knifes from his knife block in his kitchen.

NURMI: So you`re naked, you`re tied to the bed, and, just so we`re clear, as well, are your legs bound or just your hands?

ARIAS: Just my wrists.

He wanted to give me oral sex.

NURMI: Miss Arias, is this hard for you to talk about?

ARIAS: I asked him to stop because he hadn`t shaved, and it was scratchy.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then Jodi spoke about these raunchy triple-X- rated photos they took on Travis`s bed, like this one of Jodi wearing nothing but pigtails. Listen to this.


NURMI: Did you pose for that picture or did Travis suggest that that take place?

ARIAS: He suggested all the poses.

NURMI: Is that something you really wanted to do?

ARIAS: That was not my favorite part of the day. No, I didn`t want to do that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi spoke about the photos she took of Travis laying naked on the bed next to a bottle of KY and how he was proud of his sculpted body and even asked to get some photos of himself in the shower. She explained how the photos then led to the two of them making a homemade porno movie with her camera, which she says she quickly erased the porno.

Do you believe it? Is it a fantasy? Is it all lies? Maybe partially true. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian, in Arizona. Selin, what a day. The one we`ve been waiting for. You were in court for this dramatic testimony. Take us there.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, after six days of Jodi on the stand, we are finally to the day where she actually murders him.

And I have to tell you, that jury has kind of been -- there`s been a little bit of Jodi fatigue with that jury. They weren`t taking notes. They were sitting back in their seats the past six days as she was giving us her life story and how she met Travis, et cetera, et cetera.

But as soon as she got to renting the car and driving down to Travis` house, they all sat forward. They started taking notes. They started paying attention.

For every excuse that Jodi gave today -- why were there gas cans in the car? Well, because she wanted to save money on gas. Why was her phone off? She lost her charger. For every single excuse she gave, those jurors were writing down all her excuses. And you have to wonder what are they going to make of all the excuses that she gave us today once they are in that jury room deliberating.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right. Part of Jodi`s testimony today sounded like -- well, "Fifty Shades of Grey" is "Highlights" magazine compared to some of this stuff. She describes in graphic detail the final time she had sex with Travis, just after he had shown flashes of anger towards her, after he`d smashed a CD because it was scratched. Listen to this.


NURMI: You mentioned that you were bent over this desk. How did that happen? Did he push you down, or how did he get into that position?

ARIAS: Yes, he had my right arm and bent me over. He thrusted a few times and then started pulling my pants down.

NURMI: Based on that movement, did you believe that he wanted to have sex with you again?

ARIAS: Yes. I could feel that he had an erection.

NURMI: Did you want to have sex with Mr. Alexander?

ARIAS: Well, yes, actually, I did because it was better than him getting mad. I was actually relieved.

NURMI: You said you were relieved to find out that he just wanted sex. In your mind, what was the more damning alternative? What was the more concerning alternative to just having sex?

ARIAS: I didn`t want his anger to escalate to levels that it had in the past.

NURMI: Did he remove your pants? Did you remove your pants?

ARIAS: He just got them down, like, just past my butt, and I had -- I don`t know -- I didn`t have, like, jeans or anything on.

NURMI: OK. Does he ejaculate?


NURMI: Where?

ARIAS: On my back. My lower back.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The theme here over and over again, Travis hot- tempered, potentially violent. Jodi, the submissive victim, just desperate to do anything, including have sex again and again to placate him. The question is, does the jury buy it?

Let`s bring in our expert panel to debate. We`ve got some pro- prosecution, some pro-defense. Want to keep it interesting. I wonder: either it`s all true or it`s all a lie or some of it is true and some of it`s fairy tale.

What say you, Jordan Rose, attorney right there in Phoenix, Arizona?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I say this is a different Jodi Arias than we`ve ever seen. She`s been a Chatty Cathy. She can`t stop talking about the details of her life, minuscule things she can remember.

And here today she goes dark. She`s a vacuum. She`s empty. She has no idea what happened that day. She remembers a color of a rope, and then the defense attorney puts up a rope and it`s a different color. I mean, she has -- absolutely these lies are going to come and bite her.

As Selin mentioned, the jury is taking copious notes, and the prosecution is just going to shove this right down her throat when they get up there to cross-examine her, which is why they are not objecting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, for the defense -- Jayne.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have to tell you that the defense is between a rock and a hard place. And you have to remember that the defense is putting up what they feel is necessary as a foundation for the experts that they have that will be able to testify, and it`s balanced against keeping the jury interested and, unfortunately, through these graphic and yet sometimes boring details. It`s a balance. They must...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Honey, it`s not boring. You can call it whatever you want. I`ll testify. Put a polygraph on me. It`s anything but boring.

We`re hearing about some of the raunchiest sex. I mean, a friend of mine came back from a trip, turned on my show and said, "Where`s the porno music?" OK, this is graphic stuff. It ain`t boring. I`ll disagree with you on that one.

Gloria Allred, here`s the thing. I think people get invested in stories, just like they get invested in relationships. I think it all boils down to whether jurors have decided to invest, subconsciously and emotionally, in her story or they`ve decided to reject her and what she represents. Your thoughts, Gloria.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes, Jane, I think, you know, the good news for Jodi Arias is that she`s taken the witness stand, because the jury always likes to hear from the defendant. Usually doesn`t get a chance in a case where they`re charged with murder.

The bad news for Jodi Arias is that she took the witness stand, because now she`s going to be called to account for each and every answer that she gives. And if the jury thinks that she`s lying about some or even lying about not being able to recollect what happened on that fateful and tragic day, they`re really going to be angry at her, and especially because they had to be put through so much of the sex. And as much as some of them might like to hear about it, the fact that the decedent is the one that engaged in it could really make them very angry at her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I know. It could ruin the sex life of all the jurors. It`s like a busman`s holiday, having sex after hearing this for, I don`t know how many weeks.

Esther Penn (ph), only two people knew what happened in that room, and all this raunchy stuff she`s describing, there`s -- the only person who could dispute it is dead.

ESTHER PENN (PH): That`s right. That`s right. But I agree with Jayne. This case, what she is doing on the stand is getting -- is giving her whole life story, a lot of her whole life story, her entire life story, but it`s to allow the jurors to connect with her.

Let`s not forget there are two phases to this trial. There`s the guilt phase and the mitigation, the death phase.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if she`s convicted...

PENN (PH): Correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If it`s a hung jury, we`ll continue this debate on the other side, playing more of the extraordinary, extraordinary testimony in court today. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you meet him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I met him through the church.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You and Travis, did you meet at church?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this was in Las Vegas?

ARIAS: At the MGM Grand. He stopped right in front of me and stuck his hand out and introduced himself.




ARIAS: He picked it up, and he flung it at the wall. And it ricocheted off the wall and rolled onto the -- off the desk and landed on my head and hit the carpet.

I was going to apologize, and he had stood up. The chair got pushed to the side, and he spun me around and bent me over the desk and pressed up against me. He grabbed both of my arms, spun me around, and then grabbed my right arm and twisted it behind my back.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There she is describing just hours or even less before she killed Travis Alexander, painting him as the aggressor, saying, oh, she brought him some CDs and they didn`t work right, and he flung the CD and went out of control.

Jon Lieberman, HLN contributor, "Searching for Justice" on AOL. She`s really turning the tables and trying to present him as the aggressor, and he`s not here to dispute that. Is this a win for Jodi Arias?

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, no. I don`t think it is a win, Jane, because she`s making many assertions that are simply uncorroborated. They`re not corroborated by the evidence. They`re not corroborated by other witnesses.

Let me give you some examples. She continues to assert that Travis was a pedophile, that he liked little kids, but there`s been no evidence presented to support that. And if he was a pedophile, then why did she continue to text him, have sex with him, drive hundreds of miles to go see him? You have that whole issue.

Then if you look at the day of the murder, Jane, she had several different opportunities to get out of that house if she truly felt that her life was in danger. If she truly felt that Travis was angry enough over the scratched CDs or whatever to, in fact, kill her or put her life in danger, she had many opportunities to leave. In fact, she packed up her car with her bag that she was carrying and then she comes back into the house and they have sex again and take more pictures. It just defies any realm of plausibility, her story here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, of course, they have an explanation for everything, and they say, essentially, after a day of kinky marathon sex, including an angry sexual encounter in Travis` office, Jodi claims she wanted to leave his house on a good note. That`s why she stuck around, to just try to make sure it would all smooth over. Listen to this.


NURMI: After he bent you over, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on your back, you go to the bathroom to clean up. You`re still looking for a way to end the trip on a good note.

ARIAS: I wanted us to part ways on a positive note.

NURMI: What did that mean to you?

ARIAS: It meant him leaving not angry and me leaving not crying.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dave Hall, you are Travis Alexander`s dear friend. He`s not here to speak for himself. Soap operas always end with cliffhangers so that people come back the next day. This is highly orchestrated. They end right before the two of them go into the bathroom, which is where the killing occurs.

Do you think this is sort of orchestrated plastic testimony that is contrived to elicit a specific reaction on the part of jurors?

DAVE HALL, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: Well, I definitely feel a lot of it is contrived. And Jodi is going to have a hard time explaining the facts when Juan Martinez gets ahold of her.

I mean, her testimony today about the knife, first of all, the rope never did appear that she talks about being tied up with. But then, when asked where did she -- where did Travis put the knife, she said either on the nightstand or down in the bathroom. Well, the bathroom is about 30 feet away from where the bed is, and conveniently, it may end up there. When he lunges at her, it was just right there.

But I mean, who is, in their right mind, tying up their girlfriend for a sexual liaison, and then walks 30 feet down the hallway to place a knife and come back? It just doesn`t make sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, on the other side of the break we`re taking your calls, and we`re going to analyze what Dave just talked about, this claim that, "Oh, he tied me up and he strung out the rope all the way to the bathroom so he could cut the length of the rope." Do you buy it? On the other side.


ARIAS: They made me feel sexy, they made me feel attractive. So I stayed on the phone with him.

(via phone): I`m game for, like, almost everything you come up with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These were two consenting adults. She not only encouraged it. She loved it. She talked dirty back to him. She said, "Oh, you`re so bad but I love it."

ARIAS: You`re bad. You make me feel so dirty. I didn`t feel very good. I kind of felt like a used piece of toilet paper.




ARIAS: "I don`t want your apology. I want you to understand what I think of you. I want you to understand how evil I think you are. You are the worst thing that ever happened to me. You are a sociopath. You only cry for yourself. You have never cared about me, and you have betrayed me worse than any example I could conjure. You are sick and you scammed me."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s Jodi Arias on the stand reading texts or e- mails purportedly from Travis Alexander, calling her a sociopath, the worst thing that`s ever happened to him. But then they`re having sex a few short weeks later. There`s a lesson in all of this.

Let`s go to the phone lines.

Stacy, Connecticut, your question or thought. Stacy, Connecticut.

CALLER: Hi, Jane, fantastic show.


CALLER: I think she`s a master manipulator and bring in his religion and his age, you know, he`s like a kid in a candy store when it comes to sex. She`s available. OK? If she didn`t like it, walk away, like any normal woman would or man if they were in an abusive relationship.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist, at the heart of this defense is kind of a sexist attitude: that women are more likely to perhaps be under the mind control of a man and that women have less opportunity to say, "Hasta La Vista, baby. I`m out of here." And I don`t buy that necessarily.

JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think what`s going on here is, you`re right, and they are going to try to make a case without calling it this, a battered woman`s syndrome, that she was under his thumb. Psychologically he was controlling her.

But what we all need to understand is, if you`re going to take that kind of defense, you also have to prove that she was trapped and unable to get out of the relationship, that the mind control, the physical control was so overwhelming she had nowhere to turn to.

But yet, we know that there were many, many opportunities for her get away, that she actually did get away, and she came back.


GARDERE: At the heart of this, he treated her like she was a piece of garbage, but she didn`t have to kill him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, a very good point.

Beth Karas, correspondent, "In Session." While they are having all these difficult texts and arguing on texts, and then she goes and visits him. This is around the same time that he`s telling friends that he`s being stalked by her, tire slashing, weird -- weird things happening.

Is there a disconnect between what`s happening on the texts between the two of them and these claims of stalking?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": The text messages we heard today, Jane, were a little bit after that time period. The tire slashings were December 2007. Weird things, January, February 2008. And now we`re talking April and May. Although I guess there was a text from March that was testified to today.

But still, all of these weird things happening and the slashings predated all this. They still had phone sex two or three times after that. She still moves away. She says she feels liberated, like she`s getting oxygen for the first time in a long time, being away from him, but she`s drawn back to him.

And she still says she trembles like a Chihuahua when he`s getting angry with her on the telephone, a thousand of miles away. So it has to be explained by the experts; otherwise, it doesn`t make sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I wonder if the reason why the prosecution didn`t stress the stalking aspect of her alleged behavior is that, well then, the defense could come along and show all these texts they shared, like who shares texts with somebody who`s stalking them? Who invites somebody who`s being stalked? You don`t invite your stalker over to the house, right?

So could that be, very quickly, Beth Karas, the reason why we didn`t - - the jurors didn`t hear about the stalking behavior?

KARAS: Well, the judge definitely precluded the tire slashing. They heard a little bit about -- just a little bit, knock on the door and how she showed up once at the house.

But stalking is actually a crime, so it would be evidence of an uncharged crime, and it may be a little -- judged either probative, prejudicial weighing, and decided that tire slashing is too close to slashing of the throat. She wielded a knife too much, would be the argument. If she slashed a tire, if she slashed a throat, even though she`s admitting to it. Too prejudicial, so the judge apparently didn`t allow that. She did allow a little bit of the stalking.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. More debate on the other side. Incredible moments from court today.

And at the top of the hour, Nancy Grace talks to a friend of Travis Alexander`s in court today. That`s at 8 on the other side. We`re going to play you and analyze the tying up incident where she conveniently puts the knife in the bathroom.


NURMI: Did you break into your grandparents` house to steal this gun?


NURMI: Did you orchestrate or have someone else break into your grandparents` home to steal the gun?

ARIAS: No, I did not.




JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I felt bullied, like, it was just miserable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he swore at you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he called you a whore?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you scared?

ARIAS: Yes. You purposely try to ruin every day. It seems you`re getting good at it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After tomorrow it`s going to get really bad for you -- time to spit it out.

ARIAS: Whenever he got mad it was like being in an earthquake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you have him come (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you in the woods.

ARIAS: And the little red riding hood thing that he wanted to do. I`ll give you motivation to quit screwing with me. I was just living in this fog, this -- almost like a suicidal fog.


ARIAS: I was making a string of bad choices during that time in my life.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: It`s the day we`ve all been waiting for, day seven of Jodi Arias on the stand, and she finally gets around to the day she killed Travis Alexander.

But they left it with a cliffhanger of her just about to go into the bathroom with Travis where the actual killing occurs. Today they described all the sex they had right before she killed him and, boy, did they have a lot of sex. They had sex twice. One she endured, she said, was almost forced sex, kind of like a rape. She was going along to placate him, but she also went along with being tied up.

Listen to that and pay attention to how she conveniently places the knife in the bathroom where she ends up using it. Check it out.


ARIAS: He wanted to tie me up again. He had done that once before and it didn`t work out. It was like a decorative rope. I don`t really know how to describe it. It was green and gold. He cut the rope. He measured it out somehow in the bathroom. He used one of the knives from his knife block in the kitchen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re naked and you`re tied to the bed. And, just so we`re clear as well, are your legs bound or just your hands?

ARIAS: Just my wrists. He wanted to give me oral sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Arias, is this hard for you to talk about?

ARIAS: I asked him to stop because he hadn`t shaved and it was scratchy.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, dear. Well, it`s not like there`s no corroboration. We warn you these are explicit photos but they were introduced into evidence and they were shown again today by the defense particularly photos of her. In other words the defense point, take a look at these photos, if he`s taking photos like this of Jodi Arias is it such a leap to imagine him tying her up.

They did show a tiny little piece of rope about this big it looked like at the foot of the stair. But the long rope she describes, never found. Where did it go? Did it just vaporize? Let`s debate it with our expert panel.

Jon Leiberman, people might have a gut reaction to all this like, uh, this is disgusting. He tied her up. He forced her to have sex. He bleeped on her back -- yada, yada, yada. But is it advancing her case that she killed him in self-defense?

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it all depends. I mean this time period, the setting up of the road trip and the getting to the house and the knife and gun is key to prove premeditation. So is it helping her self-defense? I mean clearly she said today, she acknowledges there are many gaps in her memory from that day. She can`t remember if the knife was left in the bathroom or if the knife was left by the bedside table.

So I think Mr. Martinez on cross is going to have a field day with this having to do with the knife, the fact that the large piece of rope was never found. The fact that the gun was never found. I mean, all of that is yet to come. We have to hear tomorrow the exact moments of what happened in the moments before she killed him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub -- defense?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Premeditation can be -- legally, premeditation can be formulated the second it takes to formulate the intent, "I`m going to kill him". It could be literally within one minute of the killing. It doesn`t have to be a broad scheme, that`s number one.

Number two, of course there`s no corroboration, Jon. You know, people don`t get raped in front of other people either. That doesn`t mean that someone wasn`t raped.

And lastly, the thing that I want to say, you know, people, to disbelieve her outright at this point means that women aren`t really victimized. It means that there really isn`t --


LEIBERMAN: No, that`s not true at all. Why didn`t she tell the truth to police in the beginning? She never mentioned any of this to police.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Gloria Allred, you`ve defended so many women and you are a victim`s rights, a female victim`s rights advocate. Is she basically ruining a chance for any woman who is truly a battered woman to make her case, or is she a battered woman and is psychological and sexual degradation part of battery?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Can the producers hear me? There`s no sound.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I`ll throw it to Jordan Rose.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: She`s not a battered woman. She is a crazy woman trying to make every excuse to allow her to have some hope of hanging this jury up. I mean you listen to her and her demeanor -- I would lose my faith in humankind if these jurors believed anything this woman spouts out. She talks about today how tying her up wasn`t the funnest part of her day. That`s how she in a just normal monotone voice, tying her up wasn`t the funnest part of her day.

She slaughtered the guy later and she talks about it this way. I mean I can`t believe that the jury would not see through all of these lies and they`re taking notes in their memories. There`s no way this woman --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Esther, here is the thing, though. There is some corroboration in the sense they took dirty photos of each other. He took graphic photos of her private areas, so graphic we can`t show you. But they`re gynecologically graphic.

ESTHER PANITCH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. He was degrading her sexually and psychologically. And to say that she`s not a battered woman, he`s stalking her from afar with these text messages. He`s using this push and pull. He knows what draws her in and what makes her feel dirty and low, and he continues to do it.

I`ve defended battered with women who have killed their abuser. And this is not all that different from the cases that I`ve had. To say that she doesn`t remember the detail about the rope -- she was traumatized. She just -- whether it was self-defense in that moment or whether --

LEIBERMAN: She was so traumatized she had to make up three different stories to police?


PANITCH: It could have been based on years of abuse. It doesn`t have to be a straight self-defense from that night. That`s what differentiates straight self-defense from the battered woman`s syndrome.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody is afraid to talk. We love arguing. Go ahead. And I want to defer to Gloria Allred. We lost her hearing for a second. She`s back. Weigh in, Gloria.

ALLRED: Well, I think it`s really going to be about what was reasonable at the time that she alleges that she was attacked by Travis. Was it reasonable for her to be in fear for her life -- that harm was going to be done to her? And that`s going to be a real uphill climb.

And I guess we`re going to have to wait for tomorrow to see whether she would have feared him, whether it`s reasonable to believe that she would have. That, again, is going to be the foundation for the expert opinion.

WEINTRAUB: I agree with Gloria Allred, and that might be a first.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And, Jordan Rose, ten seconds.

ROSE: You can`t go killing somebody because your boyfriend is a jerk to you. I mean he may be a jerk. He may ask her to do stomach goofy things they may be really inappropriate. But she has to fear for her life and have a reasonable relationship with that. There`s no proof of that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.


ARIAS: I felt bullied, like it was just miserable. He would be nice and then he would be mean and then he would be nice and then mean. Whenever he got mad it was like being in an earthquake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you scared?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he swore at you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he called you a whore?



ARIAS: Yes. He was apologetic and he was nicer.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there any way to tell when Jodi is telling the truth and when she is making stuff up? She was very believable in terms of just acting when she is telling cops ninjas broke in, when she`s telling cops she wasn`t there at all. Now she is saying, yes, she was there, and Travis had a temper tantrum. How can we tell when she`s lying?


ARIAS: I thought he looked cute sitting there at the computer and he was watching really dumb videos. He was just sitting there so I just stood in the doorway looking at him for a minute. And Napoleon was laying down, so he didn`t really notice me at first. And then after standing there for maybe like 30 seconds, 45 seconds, a minute, Napoleon noticed me, barked, and I came over and petted him. That`s when Travis turned around.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She lost me right there because as everybody knows, I have Chihuahuas and they never notice me. They notice me a block before I get home is when they notice. Not when they turn around and see me.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Lori, Texas -- your question or thought. Lori?

LORI, TEXAS (via telephone): Hi, yes. I just find it strange that for six or seven days she has been on stage -- I mean the stand and she`s been able to look at the jury and make eye contact. I mean she can read them the McDonald`s menu. But when it comes to the question about her grandmother`s house and the gun being stolen, she turns her head. She doesn`t look at the jury. She puts her eyes down and says one word, "No". That`s a lie -- period.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think you raise an excellent point. Listen, she has a real big problem, Dave Hall, Travis` dear friend -- and that is the gun. She has explained away the knife, if you believe her, that he tied her up and that`s why he had a knife cutting rope. But how the heck is she going to explain that gun especially when she didn`t cop to staging a burglary at her grandparents` house, which you know, it`s pretty suspicious that a gun with the same caliber that was used to kill Travis Alexander was stolen from her grandpa`s house a week before and we`ve never found the murder weapon?

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: You know what, you`re right, Jane. I was really hoping that today we would hear her story. It`s going to top the ninja story by far where this mysterious gun came from because I`m a certified trainer with the NRA. I have dozens of guns. I`ve been out shooting with Travis many, many times. He always borrows my guns.

I went at his house about a week before the murder and stayed there for an entire week working. He never showed me any guns. If he had a gun, if he finally bought a gun, he would have bragged to me and said, hey, I finally bought my first gun. Check this out.

A .25 caliber is a worthless gun. It`s not good for self-defense. It`s too small to do the job. I never would have encouraged him to buy a .25 caliber gun. He didn`t buy a gun. Jodi brought that gun into the house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but the problem with what you`re saying is you`re not on the stand telling the jurors all this information. You know, I wonder, and I`ll throw it out to our panel.

Esther Panitch, is this gun -- you`re for the defense -- is this gun going to be a problem or can she just concoct a story and say Travis decided to get one and there it was?

PANITCH: Well, she`s going to have to say something. And if she pulls this I don`t remember stuff, it`s not going to get her very far. So there will be some explanation. I don`t know what it`s going to be but, yes, it is a problem.

She has to explain in the process of over-killing him or killing him five or six times, she has to explain where the gun came from and how he ended up with a bullet in his head. So she`s really going to have to explain it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jordan Rose, I was totally shocked that she didn`t cop -- I thought she was going to own the burglary and say, yes, I wanted to kill myself because remember how she talked about the reason no jury is ever going to convict me is that I wanted to kill myself. She`s already established the suicidal stuff. I thought she would just cop to that, say yes I brought the gun and I was going to use it because I was scared of Travis and I might have decided to kill myself on this trip, too. But she didn`t do that.

WEINTRAUB: And that would have been easy for her to do but she didn`t.

ROSE: I agree. I thought that`s where -- I actually thought that`s where it was going to go. And you know, it`s interesting because she can remember that her grandparents had rifles but, no, they didn`t have a pistol. And the fact that the pistol was stolen just very recently, it just doesn`t make any sense.

But I agree, I think she made a misstep in her lies. She is concocting this web and it`s very difficult for her to follow and I hope it`s difficult for the jurors as well. But yes, it could have gone with the suicide and that made some sort of sense but it didn`t.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Allred, do you think she is going to come up with a believable story for this gun? Remember, the sky is the limit. Nobody is there to refute the story. She could concoct a story that nobody could corroborate or not.

ALLRED: Well, she can concoct a story and if there is no corroboration, the jury may decide they`re not going to believe it. You asked a question, Jane, how do we know if she`s lying? It`s the old line, some people may feel they know she`s lying when her lips are moving and that could be it.

Also I`m very concerned. She is sitting here testifying about the time period just right before Travis is killed, and there`s no emotion. It`s a very flat affect. I mean is she suddenly going to break down at the time that she alleges that she is being attacked? You know, all of this it just seems too contrived, too cute by half, too planned, too scripted.

I have a problem. I don`t think -- I think the jury, many of them, are not going to believe her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ll have to see. More on the other side. That`s why we debate it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he punched it, did that frighten you?

ARIAS: I mean I think something had crossed the back of my mind but he had been nice so I wasn`t overly concerned about it. But he could punch it and send it flying a few feet over across the tile and essentially he would follow it around the room and he could punch it that way and it just kept moving and moving and moving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean something in the back of your mind?

ARIAS: Because he`s very strong.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to Doc Holiday -- where you been, Doc? Oh, Sinny -- you`re an angel as far as I`m concerned. And Puggles -- and he`s sitting on a ruggles. Oh, I just love Puggles. Look at this two -- Sophie and Hank hanging out in the backyard. Way to go. Way to party, dudes.



ARIAS: What a stupid idiot I was. It felt awkward. He got a new camera that he was excited about and wanted to play around with it.

Travis didn`t like hair. He didn`t even like it on his own body. He seemed a little bit thrilled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit thrilled, is that what you said?

ARIAS: He seemed really into it. Yes, he wanted to get a picture of us having sex without somebody holding the camera, so he told me to put it on timer.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It seems that Jodi Arias gets particularly emotional when it involves embarrassing photos of herself up on the big screen. Selin Darkalstanian, you`re in the courtroom, is that when she stops being flat?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Exactly. When she starts talking about certain things she goes really into detail. We`ve seen it before. She almost gives too much detail when she talks about certain aspects. But then when we start getting into near the murder or, you know, the sex photos her voice goes down to a whisper. You can barely hear her. She starts looking down, starts crying right on cue. Her attorney has to tell her to please speak up, please look up.

Those are the times she gets emotional. Although there was one day in court last week when she did start crying; her face was puffy, she had red eyes. That was the day that we heard the phone conversation between her and Travis. That day she really broke down, almost like remembering what could have been or what was.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break we`ll talk to a psychologist about what the jurors want to see from her tomorrow when she describes the actual killing -- 29 stab wounds, slit throat, shot to the face. Next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. You`ve got to make sure to join us tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here because it`s the big day when she actually goes into the bathroom and describes how she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, slit his throat right down to the spine, and shot him in the face. How is she going to explain that away? And Jeff Gardere, what will she do likely emotionally?

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: All right. First of all, she can`t be ambivalent. It can`t be about it would have been better if I wasn`t tied up or I didn`t have sex, I would have been relieved. She is going to have to be in the moment, prove to these people that she was in fear, in desperation and was fighting for her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. I think she has been too blase. And if she wants to save herself, she`s got to up the ante. We`ll see.

Nancy Grace, next.