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Young Girls Forced to Fight; Investigator Removed from Pistorius Case; Dead Body in Hotel Water Tank; Parents Protesting Yoga

Aired February 21, 2013 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: The beach craft jet ran off the end of the runway after arriving from Nashville.

Seems Laura Bush does not approve of a same-sex marriage ad that includes her own supportive remarks in 2010. Back then the former first lady told Larry King that committed same-sex couples ought to have the same sort of rights that everyone has.

The new ad is produced by a group called The Respect for Marriage Coalition, which hasn't said whether it will respect Mrs. Bush's objections and edit her out.

In about 90 minutes, Vice President Biden will take his anti-gun violence message to West Connecticut State University. That's not very far from Newtown, Connecticut. Politicians and police, doctors and sportsman, families and victims are taking part in a conference on ways to make our communities safer. You can hear the vice president live at 12:30 Eastern right here on CNN.

I should warn you, you're about do see a shocking video that will make your blood boil. Two young girls, my guess maybe about 5 years old, forced to fight. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Slap her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hair pulled out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just slap her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hair pulled out. Slap her harder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, don't hit harder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you? Do you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't punch her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just want do you. Just do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grab her. Grab her. Yes.

(CROSSTALK) (END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: New York City Police are trying to track down the people responsible for this. Someone could be heard saying slap her, slap her. You could hear the adults there on that videotape. When the one girl is grabbed by the hair and spun around, everyone starts cheering and there are people in the background just watching.

CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and "In Session" contributor Joey Jackson -- guys, is there a possible legal defense here for the people who allowed this to happen?

Joey, I'll start with you.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, "IN SESSION" CONTRIBUTOR: Sure, I mean, there's always a defense. The issue is going to be, did they engage in aiding, abetting and fortuning in having them fight. And if they did, and that's problematic, Christine, because you'd be looking at reckless endangerment, you'd be looking at endangering the welfare of a child, you know, and other charges, potentially assault.

However, if there were people who were there who were merely present and just observing it, then mere presence alone certainly constitutes a defense, but if you're encouraging them to fight then it becomes problematic in defending.

ROMANS: Jeff, you know, this is 20 seconds of tape. It's horrific. You know, you feel for these girls. One of the girls clearly doesn't want -- she's really kind of not doing it at first. And you can hear adult voices really goading her on.

Is this a crime what we're seeing being committed here? Or is this really -- just bad acting all the way around?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think it's important not to make sweeping judgments about a crime or absence of a crime based on a very short piece of videotape. Obviously what the police should do is find out who these girls are, find out who the parents are, find our who took this video, what kind of idiot takes a video like that, and doesn't actually step in and stop what's going on.

First thing to do is make sure the kids are OK. Have Protective Services deal with the children. Then the police can look into whether a crime was committed, because perhaps it was, but perhaps, you know, we don't have the full story.

ROMANS: Yes. We don't know who those adults were. Were they babysitters? Were they neighbors? Were they people who were taking care of the kids? Were they cousins, sisters or brothers?

So, Joe -- Joey Jackson, I mean, I'm wondering, do you take the kids -- I mean, when you find these kids, what does Child Protective Services do? Do you take them out of the care of the parents or do -- do people need to have some sort of sensitivity training that no, it's not OK to make your kids -- to make little children fight with each other and videotape it? JACKSON: They certainly do, Christine. I mean, people should absolutely know better than this. And ultimately, the family law, the way it's structured, is you want the reunification of the family, you want the family to be together. But at the same time you want children to be safe because it's all about the best interests of the child.

And while we don't know who they are, Christine, rightfully we don't, I'm certain that ultimately we'll find out who they are and when they do, there should be some accountability. Whether that's training, whether there's a temporary separation until we get to the bottom of it, and then the families reunified, if they are family, that's another matter.

But certainly, you want to keep that unit in order, but make sure the children are safe and secure and this doesn't happen.

TOOBIN: That video is all over New York television.

ROMANS: Yes.

TOOBIN: There is enough of a picture there of where it took place that it's going to be quite clear to the police. People are going to report where this is. They won't have trouble identifying who's involved, and then they should conduct a thorough and fair investigation.

ROMANS: As evidence, Jess, how well does something like this stand up as evidence? Because with social media and with cell phone cameras, I can't believe the volume of bad parenting that is being shared around on the Internet, you know? So -- how valuable, Jeff, is it for investigators and then maybe for district attorney?

TOOBIN: It's very valuable. I mean, it's much more valuable than people testifying. You know, it is not always the last word. I mean, famously we have the Rodney King case, which everybody thought was clearly an open and shut case, the officers at least in the first trial wound up -- would up being acquitted.

This is a different situation, but if given the choice, police and prosecutors always would want a video at least to start their investigation.

ROMANS: Right. All right, don't move, guys.

JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE).

ROMANS: Olympian athlete Oscar Pistorius -- yes, they sure do. Don't move, because we're going to talk about the Olympian Oscar Pistorius back in a South African courtroom where there's plenty of drama surrounding this case. Jeff and Joey talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: No bail decision for Oscar Pistorius today. The blade runner will be back in court tomorrow. But will there be a bail decision then?

Our legal team is here to weigh in, CNN senior legal analyst and author of "The Oath," Jeffrey Toobin, and "In Session" contributor and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson, joins me again.

Jeffrey, let me start with you. The Pistorius bail decision got postponed again today. How quickly does the legal process move in South Africa and what are you watching this judge do as he weighs whether or not to give him bail?

TOOBIN: Well, let's just start with focusing on one thing about South Africa. It's a different country. They have different rules. You know, we can only do so much projecting about what we know about American trials on to this trial. For starters, there are no juries in South Africa. In any case. This will be decided by a judge when he ultimately goes to trial.

There is also a terrible record in South Africa of failing to prosecute and convict men who abuse, who rape, who kill women. That is just a -- you know, an unfortunate fact about South Africa. Also, by and large, under South African law, people accused of premeditated murder do not get out on bail except in extraordinary circumstances.

Certainly the defense has pointed out some potential weaknesses in the prosecution case here, but this certainly doesn't seem like extraordinary circumstances to me entitling him to bail, but, you know, I don't want to pretend that I know exactly how South African judges make these sorts of decisions.

ROMANS: Joey, let me bring you in because Jeff makes a really good point about how this is a judge, not a jury. And a jury maybe could have seen as a big distraction, this lead investigator, now actually being investigated himself for the attempted murder -- firing at a minivan full of people a couple of years ago.

How does that play into this? When the guy who's been on the stand talking about the evidence in this case is now someone who's actually facing murder charges himself?

JACKSON: Yes, absolutely, Christine. And in any case, whether there's a judge, a jury, and also there's no death penalty, and that's something to consider there, too. But it depends upon the spin you put on it. I mean, from a prosecutorial perspective, they'll say it has no effect whatsoever. These were charges that have been out there since 2009, they were withdrawn. They had reasons to believe that this went away and all of a sudden they came back again and so therefore the prosecutor will say it has no effect.

If you're defending, you'll say, credibility, how can we we have credibility lie in someone who's charged with seven counts of attempted murder? Are you kidding me? The investigation is tainted, it's flawed. And so that's the spin you'll put on it whether it's in front of a jury or, as we know in South Africa, in front of a judge who will have advisers who assists him in making those decisions.

ROMANS: Jeff, what a crazy twist. TOOBIN: Right. But let's also remember, this was a crime -- alleged crime, the one involving the officer in 2009. It's still not resolved. I think that tells you something about how quickly the South African legal system works.

JACKSON: It sure does.

TOOBIN: I mean, you know, we're all, you know, trying decide about this case. You know, he was just -- the murder took place or the homicide took place on Valentine's Day just last week. This thing is going to take a long time to be --

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: Well, his team says it wasn't a homicide, it wasn't a murder.

TOOBIN: Well --

ROMANS: They don't think a murder was committed.

TOOBIN: Well, I -- I corrected myself.

ROMANS: Right.

TOOBIN: It wasn't a murder necessarily, but it certainly was a homicide. I mean, he did kill her. That's not disputed.

ROMANS: And it was a violent and fearful way for this young woman to -- you know, to meet her end. This is just the bail part of this whole thing. I mean, this promises to be very riveting and sad, I'm sure.

Now I want to ask both of you, Joey, specifically you. Nike key has now suspended Pistorius' contract. You know and they say that they wanted to follow due process here. But are there any legal repercussions for them if -- if they don't?

JACKSON: Well, generally not. What happens is in any contract they protect themselves. Right? Sponsors do and they have morals clauses in them, and those morals clauses don't contemplate you actually being convicted. It's something that can bring a detriment upon the company. And so what they're looking at, Nike, is their revenue and their value, and they would have every right in the contract.

I haven't seen the contract, but if it follows a standard mole, that model contract do that have moral clauses, they're protected in suspending for the time being, you know, this endorsement until due process, as you mentioned, Christine, is followed, and he's either adjudicated not guilty or he goes through the system and is found otherwise.

TOOBIN: This isn't Nike's first rodeo. They are --

JACKSON: Not at all.

TOOBIN: You know, dealing with athletes all the time. Michael Vick was one of their clients -- was one of their endorsers. Obviously he had a criminal case against him, he pleaded guilty. So, you know, they have dealt with this before and I'm sure they know how to deal with this.

ROMANS: All right. Jeff Toobin and Joey Jackson, nice to see both of you. I'm sure we'll be talking about again very, very soon.

All right. This next case, the water tastes just funny. There was a little water pressure for the shower or the sink. Investigators find a body inside the tank. The hotel's policy has many guests wondering what their rights are in this next case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: We're expecting an autopsy today on the young Canadian woman who's body turned up in a water tank on the roof of a Los Angeles hotel. Elisa Lam checked into the Cecil Hotel last month. She was last seen alive on the 31st. On Tuesday police found her here and the mystery deepened. Along with concerns for the hotel's other guests, guests who drank and bathed in water from the tank. The water tank there where her body was decomposing for who knows how long.

Listen to what a former guest told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SABINA BAUGH, HOTEL GUEST: The water did have a funny taste.

MICHAEL BAUGH, HOTEL GUESTS: It wasn't right.

BAUGH: There was something wrong. The pressure in the water was terrible, the shower was awful. The water -- and when you turned the tap on, the water was coming black first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: OK, the hotel isn't commenting, but Sabina, the young woman you just heard from, says it's not offering refunds to guests who leave early, and is asking guests who stayed to sign a waiver affirming they've been warned about the water.

And that brings me to my lawyers, Jeff and Joey.

Joey, you first. The Cecil Hotel is a lot closer to Skid Row than Rodeo Drive. But still, drink at your own peril and risk?

(LAUGHTER)

JACKSON: Outrageous. I think ultimately there are two issues here. One is of course contractual. When you go to a hotel you expect a certain standard of care there. You expect that they're going to tend to you and that the water quality and everything else will be legit.

And you can't force people to sign contracts, you can, but whether those contracts are valid or not is another matter. It's a contract of adhesion. It means that either you stay or you go, and ultimately they're directing you to do so. And so I think that's a problem.

The other problem quickly is a civil issue. That is, people could be damaged. I mean, I don't know if people got sick. They're going to do tests on the water and then there's the emotional issue of the distress. Could you imagine learning that you were drinking water or bathing in water where there was a decomposing body? That causes some issues.

ROMANS: What risk do travelers reasonably assume, Jeff, when they check in to a strange place? What recourse do they have if they've drank tainted water or eaten bad food?

TOOBIN: You know -- you know, I went -- I went on the Web this morning and saw that you can get a room at the Cecil Hotel for $46 a night. That's pretty low price, but you don't expect dead body in your water for that -- for that price. I mean, this is obviously an awful situation, and mostly it's awful, obviously, for this poor woman and her family.

But, you know, I am not sure this is really a legal -- a civil case. You know, we talk about, like, the Carnival Cruise last week, people are going to sue. You know, unless someone is proved to be injured as a result of this, if some someone is actively sick and can prove that they were caused, this is really mostly -- this is really a tragedy about this woman and her family.

And the guests, I mean, I think the hotel is handling it terribly, they should obviously offer people refunds, they should let people go. But, you know, I think it's mostly really about this woman and her family.

ROMANS: Yes, I would agree on that.

JACKSON: Jeff, I say sue them now and sue them later.

(LAUGHTER)

TOOBIN: That's why you're in private practice, pal.

ROMANS: Thanks, guys. This next one. A form of meditation, stretching and exercise, it's yoga. It's inside one California school district. Why one lawsuit claims this is trampling religious freedom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Young children being used as religious guinea pigs? That's the claim from a couple in California who are upset that yoga is being taught in their children's public school. They say the classes are, quote, "inherently and pervasively religious." And they're suing the Encinitas School District.

But a statement on the district's Web site says this. "There is no discussion of spiritualism, mysticism, religion in any context. The students simply perform the physical components of movement and breathing relative to mainstream yoga."

Back with us, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and defense attorney and "In Session" contributor Joey Jackson.

Is this a violation of separation of church and state, Jeff?

TOOBIN: You know, I'm usually on the fence about these things. I don't like to give a categorical answer. But I think I'm going to give a -- categorical answer here. No. You know, yoga is yoga. Yes, there are aspects of it that are informed by Hinduism and various Eastern religions. But no. I mean, yoga is yoga and there is nothing religious that is not proselytizing to people. It's just making them healthier and more fit. And, you know, you should not make a federal case out of it.

ROMANS: You know, Joey, the interesting thing is the school says the kids can opt out. But those who do then they actually kind of fall short, I guess, on their -- on their requirements. I'm not sure. But the group that's suing they actually say when you let the kids opt out, they get bullied, they're separated, they could be picked on.

I mean, it's a very big deal apparently yoga in this -- in this school district.

JACKSON: Jeff is too reasonable for me. He doesn't like to sue.

(LAUGHTER)

He's a constitutional scholar. And if he says no violation, no allocation. But there becomes a problem if the government is entangling religion and otherwise supporting it and endorsing it in a way that's unfair and inappropriate. Now according to this statement they're just doing these movement then it's all spiritual, but that's really a question of fact, Christine, which will get vetted out in the deposition process when there is the lawsuit.

Come on, Jeff, encourage these lawsuits. Us private practice guys need them.

TOOBIN: No. No.

(LAUGHTER)

You know, that's for sure. But you know --

JACKSON: No, you're reasonable.

TOOBIN: We have lots of cases about, you know, prayers at football games, prayers at graduations, you know, whether it's led by the students, whether it's led by the faculty at schools. This is not close to the line. Yoga is, you know, all over the United States. It obviously has health benefits for people. It is as much appropriate for a gym class as playing basketball or volleyball. It just -- there's no problem there.

ROMANS: Well, Jeff, what if source of the funding for this program came from an inherently religious organization? Could that be a problem for the parents? TOOBIN: I don't -- I saw that that's part of the story. But what matters is how the students are interact. What the students do. You know, if we're going to trace the origin of all charitable contributions to public institutions whether it's Ohio State University or some school in California, I mean, that is not the test. The test is what are kids being subjected to.

JACKSON: It's the nature of the conduct.

TOOBIN: And as far as I can tell, based on what I'd read about this case, there is nothing religious about the yoga that they're doing in class.

JACKSON: Jeff, I'm going to do yoga. Join me.

(LAUGHTER)

TOOBIN: That's a good thing. No, but that's a good thing.

ROMANS: Instead of going to CCD you're going to yoga. Which one would you pick?

JACKSON: That's right.

ROMANS: All right, Jeff --

JACKSON: Downward facing dog. Next on CNN.

ROMANS: Jeffrey Toobin, Joey Jackson, thanks guys.

JACKSON: A pleasure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: This is just in. The Supreme Court is refusing to lift a stay of execution for a mentally impaired Georgia man named Warren Lee Hill. We've told you his story over the past couple of weeks. He's set for lethal injection for beating a fellow prisoner to death with a nail-studded board. He has an IQ of 70. But Georgia sets a very high standard for proving mental disability. Judges found Hill did not meet that standard. He was granted a reprieve on Tuesday.

A powerful winter storm now moving across the Midwest, more than a foot of snow is expected in Kansas, Arkansas and Missouri could see large ice storms which will likely cause power outages and treacherous roads. Snow felt at a rate of two inches per hour in Kansas arriving with lightning and thunder. Excuse me. Snowplows couldn't keep up.

A giant sinkhole swallows two cars in Page, Arizona. Look at these photos. That's 150 feet of highway about -- collapsed to about four feet. The road obviously now closed for repairs. The detour takes drivers 50 miles off course.

First Lady Michelle Obama and Big Bird team up. The two appear in a new public service announcement aimed at getting kids healthy and active. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: Hi. We're here in the White House kitchen looking for a healthy snack to eat.

BIG BIRD, SESAME STREET: Gee, I bet you could get just everything you want in this kitchen.

OBAMA: But you know what I like to reach for? Healthy, colorful snacks like juicy fruits and crunchy vegetables.

BIG BIRD: Those look good.

OBAMA: And if you --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: The PSA marks the third anniversary of "Let's Move," Mrs. Obama's initiative to ensure that kids grow up healthy and reach their full potential.

Longtime L.A. Lakers owner Jerry Buss was so beloved. His memorial service at the Nokia Theater is being televised live today. Before last night's game against the Celtics, Kobe Bryant called him the greatest owner in sports and led fans in a moment of silence. He was 80 when he died Monday.

All right. Thanks for watching. "NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL" is next.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome into NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Michael Holmes. We are taking you around the world in 60 minutes.

MALVEAUX: We begin with South Africa. Oscar Pistorius will not get out on bail today. His court hearing adjourned without a decision on whether to let the Olympic star out of jail. He is charged with murdering his girlfriend. Also police pulled the --

(END)