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Is Brinksmanship SOP in Washington?; Did Michelle Obama Jump the Shark at the Oscars?; Will WWE Magic Work for Immigration Reform?

Aired February 25, 2013 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our new half-hour show, "Talk Back". Three hot topics, great guests, your comments. On tap today, "Is brinksmanship standard operating procedure in Washington?" "Did Michelle Obama jump the shark at the Oscars?" "And will the WWE magic work for immigration reform?"

Playing with us today L.Z. Granderson, CNN contributor and senior writer at ESPN; Patricia Murphy, founder and editor of Citizen Jane Politics and a contributor at "The Daily Beast"; Will Cain, CNN contributor and analyst for "The Blaze"; and our own Dana Bash, CNN's chief congressional correspondent. Thanks to all of you for being with us today.

First "Talk Back" question: "Is brinksmanship standard operating procedure in Washington?" By now, you are all too familiar with how the story goes. The financial disaster looms. Congress and the White House play the blame game. And then at the very last minute, a deal miraculously gets done. And with four days until those forced spending cuts, President Obama and a returning Congress are right back in the same spot. That would be nowhere.

Today, the White House is telling citizens of individual states how those forced spending cuts will affect them, reducing money for everything from cop salaries so funding for HIV tests and early childhood education. Here's how the Governor of Delaware sums up the impact.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JACK MARKELL (D), DELAWARE: The most frustrating conversation any governor can have these days is when we talk to a business who says, "I'd love to hire, but I can't find people with the right skills." So we have resources available for job training. And if those resources get cut, it really puts -- you know, it stops the recovery in its tracks, so that's just not what we should be doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But despite that kind of pressure, people in the nation's capital continue to drag their feet. So "Talk Back" today, "Is brinksmanship standard operating procedure in Washington now?"

And Dana, I want to start with you because everybody that I know pretty much thinks at the very last minute, lawmakers will come up with a deal or a temporary deal, and all of this worry will be about nothing. What do you say?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know what? I think that that has been the standard operating procedure. We've watched it. We've breathed it. We've been living it for the past two years.

It looks different this time. Because at least the past during the fiscal cliff and other times when the government was going to shut down, you knew that there were talks going on. There are no talks going on that we know of, that we can detect.

And part of the reason is because since the fiscal cliff deal at the end of the year, the House Speaker has said that he's not -- no more. I'm not going to do it anymore. In fact, he told me and a few other reporters that he feels like he got burned by having these negotiations with the President and then they collapsed, and he had to end up giving in the end.

So this time, I just don't see it.

COSTELLO: OK. So if those forced spending cuts go into effect, I mean some people say that they'll be dire. Other people say oh, don't even worry about it because the spending cuts will happen over time, and we won't really even feel them, and that will give Congress time to get its act together. I mean, what is the real story, Will Cain?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: $44 million, what is it, something between like two percent and five percent of the total federal budget over the first year. Is that dire? Are we to believe that the only thing between us and misery is the government spending $44 billion more this year?

I think that the five percent, I think that might be the number of reduction spending over the next year. When the increase was supposed to be seven percent, honestly, I've got to tell you, the reason Dana is not hearing talks, in my estimation, is because it's not that big a deal. We have to get our spending in order at some point. And the cost of paring back $44 billion right now are less than the ultimate cost of when our creditors come calling to force bigger spending cuts on us.

COSTELLO: Yes but if things happen, for example, Ray LaHood came out and said there will delays at the airport, long delays through the security lines. Air traffic controllers will have to take furloughs. 20 percent of the work force will be, you know, cut temporarily. And that will affect my life directly.

So do I believe Ray LaHood? I'll say that, in light of what will is saying -- L.Z.?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh I'm sorry. I didn't hear my name. I get lost in all the disaster that's going to happen, I mean, the Oscar haze. It's not so much the number. You know but the number in and of itself is not that -- not that dire. That is correct. It's where those numbers are being hit that's the problem. That's the real reason why this is a big deal, in my opinion.

If we were just talking about just taking it out of a general fund that wasn't designated, then you know what, over a ten-year period, we're not going to see it. In fact, I think the number works out to be three cents for every $1 federal dollar that's being taken out because of this.

But the problem is where that three cents was supposed to be spent. And it's going to hurt the middle class, and that's the reason why it's a big deal. And I'm really frustrated that we've had 18, 19 months now to address this issue. And we keep kicking this can down the road.

This is not the way to govern. This is not the way in which businesses and department leaders in the federal government can plan. And this is all going to hinder the recession or hinder our economy and send us back into a recession.

COSTELLO: So see that's the thing, Patricia. Because -- because for me whether dire things will happen or not, it's just the fact that Congress again can't get it together, can't compromise, can't govern. I mean, that's really the real issue to me.

PATRICIA MURPHY, FOUNDER AND EDITOR OF CITIZEN JANE POLITICS: That is the issue to me. It's the issue to 89 percent of Americans who don't approve of the way this Congress is handling its business or the way the last Congress handled its business.

And to me, Congress is really going from dysfunctional to incompetent. They are not able to do the most basic facts of governing. And if you ask about, you "Is brinksmanship the new standard operating procedure?" I don't think so because brinksmanship suggests some kind of a strategy or some kind of a secret plan. There is no plan.

This was created by Congress and the White House, by the way, everybody got on board. They all signed the suicide pact together. They came up with the worst scenario they could think of to force themselves to do something within 18 months and they cannot do it. And to me, it is just nothing short of pathetic. There's just no other word for it.

COSTELLO: Oh you're right pathetic, that's a good word.

CAIN: Hey Carol.

COSTELLO: Oh go ahead Dana. Oh yes.

CAIN: Can I, can I just illustrate, I've fallen in love with this picture that I've -- that I've sent you guys. But I -- to just illustrate Patricia's point, I've got a picture that shows you how often over the last two years we've dealt with this brinksmanship, this do-or-die politics that's dating back to December 2011. It's eight times. Eight times we've had this story, once every couple months.

And look, it's going to remain that way. And we have to point this out. The Senate Democrats, Dana can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but haven't passed a budget in almost four years. We're going to have these little skirmishes if we don't have the big debate about the budgeting.

COSTELLO: And Dana's shaking her head yes.

BASH: No it's absolutely true that we're not having the big debate. And in fact, you know I've asked the House Speaker point blank last week or two weeks ago, "Is this what we're going to do, we're going to keep careening from crisis to crisis?" When are we going to have those talks about tax reform or, you know, budget reform or entitlement reform? And it's on both sides. It just doesn't look possible. I think that is the reason why people out there should be frustrated.

Not so much about the sequester or the forced spending cuts is should say --

(CROSSTALK)

CAIN: Right.

BASH: -- whether you know four percent or five percent. Because I think it is true that when you look at the big picture, it's not that -- it's not that bad. But the bottom line is that they are -- this is a little -- I mean, it is a strategy. It is a strategy particularly among Republicans. They want to cut the federal budget. They want to cut spending. And that's why they are simply not giving in on this.

COSTELLO: All right, so what do our viewers think? So I'll ask the question again, "Is brinksmanship standard operating procedure in Washington?"

This from Claudia, "The bottom line: Congress should not be taking time off. What did they give themselves a pay raise for; more down time?"

This from Mark, "I fear that these representatives have become so removed from allowing America to thrive that they are willing to let it all fall -- they're willing to let it all fall. So sad."

Keep the conversation going Facebook.com/CarolCNN or tweet me @CarolCNN.

Our next "Talk Back" question, "Did Michelle Obama jump the shark at the Oscars?"

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Who could forget the now infamous moment of Fonzie literally jumping the shark in an episode of "Happy Days"? Critics say it was a gimmick to get more attention. An editor at Salon.com thinks the First Lady is following in Fonzie's footsteps by presenting the award for Best Picture at the Oscars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: And now for the moment we have all been waiting for. And the Oscar goes to -- "Argo". Congratulations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It was the latest in a string of high-profile appearances this week, timed to the third anniversary of Michelle Obama's Let's Move initiative. The Obama administration recently praising the program, claiming that the National Childhood Obesity rate has leveled off as a result.

Now the First Lady is celebrating that milestone meeting with Big Bird in the White House kitchen and showing off her dance moves with Jimmy Fallon. That's pretty funny.

She even talked to Rachael Ray about those much-buzzed-about bangs. But with a 73 percent approval rating, higher than her hubby, his cabinet and of course, Congress, some say maybe the Oscars aren't the best use of the First Lady's time. Instead of all those cameos, she might champion some grittier political issues like the deficit, gun control or the pressing need for bipartisanship.

"Talk Back": "Did Michelle Obama jump the shark at the Oscars?" L.Z.?

GRANDERSON: No, of course not. She is the First Lady. She represents, you know, the good and families. And if you listen to her speech, it was talking about children and encouraging children to reach for their dreams and not to be step and not to be hindered by whatever obstacles are in their way.

I think anyone who is upset that the First Lady was involved at the Oscars, one, forget that Laura Bush was involved with the Oscars in 2002. And then second, forgot the fact that she's not actually a politician. She's married to a politician. And she as she said, it's the first mom. And I thought she was great. And she looked fantastic.

COSTELLO: But still, you know, some people are saying, imagine if Michelle Obama would reach out to Mrs. Boehner, let's say, Patricia and they had lunch together and they talked about their husbands.

CAIN: Oh, nonsense.

MURPHY: I don't know what would be more awkward, either Michelle Obama at the Oscars via satellite or having lunch with Mrs. Boehner. I think neither one seems sort of normal. Or I don't know, I really don't know what she was doing at the Oscars.

I think she's fabulous. I think she's great. I don't know, first of all, why she wasn't in L.A. to attend the Oscars, if you're going to give an award, or why are you sort of there? I think all of her other initiatives, I think with Jimmy Fallon was fabulous. It had everything to do with what she's working on. I do think childhood obesity is a huge problem. I just don't know why she was at the Oscars.

COSTELLO: Will, you were saying?

CAIN: Nonsense about this stuff about her having better things to do with her time and meeting with Mrs. Boehner. Oh come on. Look, I have no personal criticism for the First Lady on this issue. I do have some criticism for Hollywood. And it gets a little tiresome for your politics to be mixed with your entertainment on such a consistent basis.

COSTELLO: Nikki Fink, she writes for "Deadline Hollywood". She's a highly influential blogger. And I don't -- I have no idea what her politics are. Said that this was inappropriate. And she said it was Hollywood telling half of America that their movies aren't made for them. And it does get a little --

(CROSSTALK)

MURPHY: That's ridiculous. That is -- I just -- I mean, she's the First Lady of the whole country, not the Democratic Party.

CAIN: I agree. But the issue, then, isn't for her, but it's for Hollywood. Must we have politics shoved down our throat every time we go watch entertainment no matter what including the celebration of the awards for entertainment.

GRANDERSON: Lincoln.

MURPHY: Lincoln was a Republican.

GRANDERSON: "Lincoln" was nominated for Best Picture.

COSTELLO: Come on girls.

BASH: Carol, I just have to say that I watched the Oscars the way they were meant to be watched with six girlfriends and maybe a little bit of champagne. I think that the Oscars jumped the shark like four hours before Michelle Obama was even on TV.

MURPHY: Agreed.

BASH: Jumping the shark had nothing to do with Michelle Obama. It was as somebody who looks forward to watching the Oscars, it was so sad. And I don't think it was Seth MacFarlane's fault. I just think the way it was produced, it was basically like, huh?

COSTELLO: Like I said earlier, the Oscars has to determine what kind of show it wants to be. Is it a variety show? Is it this classy show? Like -- what is it? I couldn't determine. And plus -- go ahead, Dana.

(CROSSTALK) BASH: I was just going to say, and the one thing I want to say also I think about Michelle Obama is you mentioned her approval rating is like in the 70s. I think it's in the 70s because she does things that are noncontroversial for the most part. She doesn't sit down and talk about the deficit or the budget or things that are going to make her less popular. That's the reality.

COSTELLO: Yes, but this is his second term, right? So she can be more of herself. Maybe she can turn her attention to more hard- hitting issues like gun control. Why can't she go to Chicago and talk about gun control?

MURPHY: I don't think Americans really want their First Lady getting into issues like that. It blew up in Hillary Clinton's face until she was actually an elected representative official. So I don't think it's the right place for Michelle Obama.

I want to agree with Dana that I don't know what was going on with the Oscars last night. But Seth MacFarlane to me was both boring and offensive at the same time. And that is hard to do.

COSTELLO: Yes.

CAIN: Yes.

COSTELLO: I myself --

GRANDERSON: I'm going to defend Seth MacFarlane. I am a huge Seth MacFarlane fan. I think he was one of the most talented guys on the stage the entire night. Yes, his humor is edgy. But if anyone has ever seen "American Dad" or "Family Guy", they knew what they were getting when they hired him.

So I'm going to defend him a little bit. I knew the edge was coming; he brought the edge. I think we were shocked by his singing voice. I think he was comfortable on stage. And he looked pretty damn good, too.

GRANDERSON: But (INAUDIBLE) about women are not edgy, they're just dumb.

COSTELLO: I know. The boobs song was a little much for me, L.Z. It's like come on.

BASH: Yes.

COSTELLO: I think we should ban that. We're like the side -- I mean come on.

CAIN: Seth MacFarlane's problem wasn't that he was offensive. It's what Patricia said, largely it was kind of awkward and boring.

BASH: That, too.

COSTELLO: That too. OK, our next "Talk Back" question: Will the WWE, the world wrestling -- world wrestling, you know, big-time wrestling? Will that magic work for immigration reform?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: OK. Our next "Talk Back" question. It's really weird.

Will the WWE magic work for immigration? Worldwide Wrestling Entertainment, or WWE, wildly popular world with characters like Hacksaw, Dr. Death and Road Warrior Hawk is now at the forefront of the immigration battle. Seriously. Two guys impersonating intolerant Tea Party members opposed to immigration are the latest to promote WWE's big fight between Alberto Del Rio and a fighter named Jack Swagger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that if you sneak across our borders and are in our country illegally, then you should leave. And if you don't want to leave, well, that's where Jack and I come in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will make you leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So this offended talk show host and Tea Party champion Glenn Beck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, RADIO HOST: The WWE now has put a new character out that is demonizing the Tea Party. You know, I can take it from a lot of people. I really can. I can't take it from the stupid wrestling people. Especially since a lot of the people, I would imagine, that a lot of the people that watch wrestling are not New York elites. I personally think when WWE starts coming against the Tea Party, that's like Nascar coming against the Tea Party.

COSTELLO: The WWE swung back, saying hey, Glenn. Did you know 20 percent of the WWE fans are Hispanic? So just chill out. It's entertainment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many of your followers are WWE fans. And they understand the difference between reality and entertainment. Are you out of touch with your audience, Glenn, or are you just a stupid political commentator?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: You've got to admit, this is really weird. The WWE invited Beck to appear on Monday night raw for a rebuttal, but according to the "Hollywood Reporter", Beck declined. It seems he's busy.

Will the WWE magic work for immigration? And Will, I'm going to direct this question to you because the reason the WWE is doing this, it wants to attract Hispanic viewers. So it's embracing the issue of immigration. And it actually meant that to be sort of pro- immigration, maybe, although it says it's not making a political statement.

CAIN: Right. And I work at "The Blaze", which is owned by Glenn Beck. I'll say this. I don't know what magic we're necessarily talking about here. What WWE magic is going to work for immigration. In our last segment, you asked us about Hollywood.

We talked about Hollywood and whether or not politics and Hollywood are a good mix. Your character just said that these people can understand the difference between entertainment and politics. But the issue is, can they discern the difference between bad entertainment?

See, here's the deal. When politics is mixed with entertainment, it's most effective when it's subversive. When it's blatant, take for example like the movie "John Q", or in the valley of Ila.

Audiences reject it -- those are terrible. Now you've got WWE who's associating racism with the constitution and with the bill of rights. Now, I would suggest to you what your mistake here, you have created very, very bad entertainment. I suspect your audience is going to know that.

COSTELLO: Well, the WWE says, come on. This is all a joke. I think what Glenn Beck was most upset about is it portrayed the Tea Party in kind of a racist way, right L.Z.

GRANDERSON: Well, you know it's funny, you know the last segment we started jumping the shark and I'm looking at Glenn Beck with a motorcycle right now. Getting ready to do just that. I cannot believe -- this is the argument and he's picking up right now. I mean are you serious. I didn't even know wrestling was still going on.

It just doesn't make any sense to me to get this passionate about this particular discussion. And I've got one bone to pick with real, real quick John Q is a hero for a lot of people. I can tell you right now there are a lot of (INAUDIBLE) who look at John Q and they say I'm going to protect my kids like Denzel did in John Q. So don't go ripping on movies you don't know nuances are my friend.

COSTELLO: Dana, Dana's trying -- go ahead Dana.

BASH: Carol, it makes complete sense that Glenn Beck is talking about this because he's talking about it. Now we're talking about it. He knows how to gin up his base, the grass roots. And look, I mean, the bottom line is that Tea Party supporters need some ginning up right now. And if the World Wrestling Entertainment is going to do it, it's going to do it.

But I also think we have to remember what the E does stand for, it stands for entertainment. Come on, nobody thinks that what they're doing is anything beyond what it is. It is what it is. I mean, this is the perfect example of it is what it is, right?

COSTELLO: I was just kind of surprised, Patricia, that they chose immigration and chose to even joke about that. I just thought it was strange. The whole thing is kind of weird to me.

F1: Yes, immigration doesn't strike me as ratings gold. I don't know why. They're going there. But I do think we are in kind of a new dawn for the topic of immigration. Not just because I know nothing about wrestling, by the way. I'm relieved to say I don't even know who those people are or what they're doing.

For immigration, we do have Republicans starting to not just -- they're not watching their televisions. They're doing the math. They watched the last election. You cannot lose the fastest growing segment of a population by nearly 50 points and win a national election.

So I don't think immigration means WWE to get involved to move this conversation forward. I think it's just simple math is moving forward. I do think we'll see some action on it.

CAIN: I can't help but say "we're being a little light on the WWE here because the last letter in their acronym is entertainment. They're painting Tea Partiers, even those that attribute themselves or allegiance as racist. And just because it's fiction or entertainment. I went, hey no biggie.

I can't imagine we'd do that without looking forward to the entertainment.

COSTELLO: OK. We have to wrap up conversation .

BASH: Good point.

GRANDERSON: You need to talk to your Republican brethren because it's the Republicans who own the WWE, and it was their idea to do this in the first place. This isn't a liberal creation.

Linda Dan McMahon spent $100 million of her own money. Maybe she's trying to make win some of that back.

COSTELLO: I wish we could continue because I'm liking this conversation now.

L.Z. Granderson, Patricia Murphy, Will Cain, Dana Bash. Thanks so much for playing with me today.

Your responses to that question "Will the WWE magic work with immigration?"

This from Storm, "This feud with Alberto del Rio and Jack Swagger is nothing more than art mimicking life. Glenn Beck needs to take a chill pill because it's only entertainment."

This from Josh, "I'm sure Glenn Beck has no problem making fun of anyone who doesn't share his ideas. He'll get over it."

Keep the conversation going. Facebook.com/CarolCNN or tweet me @CarolCNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me today. "CNN NEWSROOM" continues right now with Ashleigh Banfield.