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Nancy Grace
Arias Finally Breaks Down
Aired February 28, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, Mr. Alexander goes to take a shower.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) snapped. He said (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said (EXPLETIVE DELETED) what?
ARIAS: That I`m a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) idiot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where you claim that she grabbed you and threw you down, right?
ARIAS: Yes, he body-slammed me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s standing there and you`re down, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re terrified, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`ve got the wind knocked out of you. That means that you were having difficulty breathing, right?
ARIAS: Hurt my ribcage and my torso. I perceived that he was going to try to get on top of me, and I wanted to roll away from the situation and run.
A ball of fury coming at me, and that`s what I remember.
He got down and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, show me. Show me the linebacker pose. That`s what I`m asking for you to do.
ARIAS: He went like that, and he turned his head and grabbed my waist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that, correct?
ARIAS: Pretty much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it appears, then, that your memory becomes faulty immediately upon you shooting him.
ARIAS: Yes, things get very foggy from there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re the one that did this, right?
ARIAS: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re the same individual that lied about all this, right?
ARIAS: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So take a look at (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Day after day, Arias on the stand, dragging murder victim Travis Alexander through the mud. But then the defense emerges. Arias claims, after she stabs Travis 29 times, holding his head back, slashing him ear to ear, to the chest, the heart, the back, leaving him dead in the shower stall -- she tells the jury she can`t remember a thing.
In the last hours, more cross-exam turns ferocious fight between Arias and the prosecution. On direct with her lawyers, she remembers everything, recalling minute details dating back years. But then on cross-exam, she recalls practically nothing.
Bombshell tonight. After telling the jury she wanted sex the day she murders Travis Alexander, in the last hours, Jodi Arias off the witness stand, down on the floor in front of that jury to reenact the murder, admitting she did something, quote, "wrong."
Right now, take a look at what happened in the courtroom as Arias breaks down, basically confessing on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that Mr. Alexander was stabbed. You would acknowledge that, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you would acknowledge that that stabbing was with the knife, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And according to your version of events, you would acknowledge that that stabbing was after the shooting, according to you, right?
ARIAS: I don`t -- yes -- I don`t remember!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not asking if you remember, ma`am. I`m asking if you acknowledge that it would be you that did it, correct?
ARIAS: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you would acknowledge that a lot of the stab wounds -- and if you want, we can count them together, including the ones to the head -- were to the back of the head and to the back of the torso, correct?
ARIAS: OK. I`m not going to count them. I don`t know. I`ll take your word for it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you like to take a look at the photograph?
ARIAS: No!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So if he is being stabbed in the back, would you acknowledge at that point that he`s no threat to you, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, calls for speculation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.
ARIAS: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, if he`s already been shot, according to you, and he`s facing away from you, how could he possibly be any threat to you?
ARIAS: I can only guess. I don`t know what you`re asking me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, with regard to the -- you were here when the medical examiner testified about the wound to the throat. Do you remember that?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With regard to that wound, ma`am, you would acknowledge that that was -- in terms of the stab wounds, you would acknowledge that that was the last wound in the sequence of events.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says she doesn`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled. That was...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can she acknowledge the sequence of the stabs when she doesn`t know what they -- when she doesn`t have any memory of them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That wasn`t the question. Overruled. You may answer the question.
ARIAS: Are you talking about his testimony?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: I disagree with the sequence of events.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear to ear?
ARIAS: Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you also agree that you`re the individual that stabbed him in the upper torso?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re doing all of this -- according to your version of events, you`re doing this to this individual after you have already shot him, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct?
ARIAS: I believe so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no. You remember previously talking to us about how he was coming at you and he was this horrible man with this mean face? Do you remember telling me that?
ARIAS: Yes! I didn`t say he was horrible!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thank you for correcting me. But do you remember telling us that he was a mean man?
ARIAS: Not today!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, previously. Previously, you did say that he was a mean man, correct?
ARIAS: I think I did, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That has been the tone in the courtroom. In the last hours, Jodi Arias finally breaking down.
Out to you, Jean Casarez -- all of us camped outside the courthouse there in Phoenix. Jean, what did it take to finally crack Jodi Arias?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": I think the truth. I think the truth from the prosecutor, question after question. And right after everything you just showed the audience, she was asked, Do you believe you did something wrong to Travis Alexander? Yes, I did.
Nancy, that is admitting murder right there. That is exactly what she did. But let`s not forget the demonstration in court today as she stood before the jury.
GRACE: Let`s get the video, Liz. I want to show the viewers what happened. Do we have sound, Liz?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me the linebacker pose.
ARIAS: He got down and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, show me the linebacker pose. That`s what I`m asking for you to do.
ARIAS: OK. He went like that and he turned his head and grabbed my waist and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that, correct?
ARIAS: Pretty much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he grabbed your waist, right?
ARIAS: I can`t say it`s just like that, but that`s what I (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just -- I want -- without talking, just show me the pose.
ARIAS: He got down like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like that?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, go ahead and have a seat, ma`am. And ma`am, and you said that this happened...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: ... the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez, Miami, Jason Lamm joining us at the courthouse. Hugo Rodriguez, why didn`t they just say, Hey, Jodi Arias, why don`t you put this knife in your hand and reenact the crime because bottom line -- out to you, Sue Moss, Sue joining us from New York -- I mean, this is a prosecution`s dream for her to actually reenact what happened right there in front of the jury.
And whose fault is it? It`s the defense attorney`s fault for putting her on the stand and letting this happen.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely! Self-defense -- do they think this jury is dense? I mean, what we saw today with these waterworks, with these cries, you knew it was coming! Their whole strategy was that she was intimidated by an allegedly abusive boyfriend, yet she held her own against an aggressive, seasoned prosecutor! Of course she was going to break down because she was showing herself to be the strong, aggressive person that she is and who killed Travis!
GRACE: You know, out to you, Hugo Rodriguez. This was quite the blow to the defense when their client -- of course, they objected high and low, but the judge cleared the courtroom, cut off the cameras. When the jury came back in and the court watchers came back in, Jodi Arias had to do the demonstration. And she -- you know why? Because she opened up the door. She`s the one that said -- mentioned demonstrating it on the stand.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She did. But you assume -- you all are saying that she broke him -- that Martinez broke her. Here`s a woman who`s crying. She`s remorseful. She`s regretful...
GRACE: She never said...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: She never...
RODRIGUEZ: No, no, I`m not...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... has she one time shown remorse.
RODRIGUEZ: You`re saying that...
GRACE: She`s not sorry she did it...
RODRIGUEZ: ... she broke down, but he broke her.
GRACE: ... Hugo -- put Hugo up, please! She`s not sorry she did it, Hugo. She`s sorry she got caught.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, that`s your interpretation.
GRACE: Yes, it is.
RODRIGUEZ: And she was -- she -- she did it. And she cried.
GRACE: I know that.
RODRIGUEZ: And she was regretful and she was remorseful, but he didn`t break her.
GRACE: OK, Jean Casarez, he has her on the stand saying, Yes, I had the wherewithal to call people immediately on the phone and tell them I was lost and fabricate a scenario to explain where I was. I didn`t tell anybody what happened because I did not want them to suspect me of killing Travis. I don`t find that to be remorseful at all.
CASAREZ: She admits that freely.
GRACE: No!
CASAREZ: The prosecutor is cracking her every step of the way today.
GRACE: Why do you say that?
CASAREZ: Well, let`s just have one example here. She said, The last thing I remember is when the gun went off. I don`t remember anything. It`s when the fog came. But then she says, The last thing I remember, he was on the floor. That`s right after the shot. So why do you have to stab him all those times? There`s no imminent fear of death at that point. He`s on the ground!
GRACE: OK, Jason Lamm, to you and Hugo. Look, as the defense, I know you`ve got your back against the wall. You`re between a rock and a hard spot. But what`s your best response to that?
RODRIGUEZ: You know...
JASON LAMM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let me tell you right now, Nancy. The fact of the matter is, the defense has their back to the wall, and so does Jodi Arias, for that matter. But you know what? The prosecutor is in the process, if he keeps it up, of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Let me tell you something. The prosecutor needs to wear the white hat. And you didn`t see video of that, but he asked her, Do you have an attitude problem, ma`am? What is he, a drill sergeant? Seriously?
GRACE: Put him up!
LAMM: That is the kind of thing that will upset a jury. And with death penalty on the line, anything less is a loss. He needs to get a guilty verdict, which he will because she`s admitted to the killing, but if it`s anything less than a death sentence, it`s a loss...
GRACE: OK, I disagree with that.
LAMM: ... and he can only blame himself for letting his emotions get out of hand.
GRACE: Jason Lamm, let me ask you a question. How many death penalty cases have you handled?
LAMM: You know, I got to tell you, I don`t do death penalty cases. I do homicide cases. I`ve been a prosecutor, just like you. And you know and I know, Nancy, you keep your emotions in check. You don`t make it personal.
GRACE: Really?
LAMM: And Juan Martinez...
GRACE: Because I didn`t.
LAMM: ... is making it personal.
GRACE: I didn`t. I have a completely different theory. I`m going to you on this, Sue Moss, because the way I tried cases, I cared about the murder victims, about my crime victims. It was personal to me. I don`t know if it`s because I am a crime victim, but I cared deeply. I represented them. It was my duty to get the right verdict for them, to get the truth. Yes, hell, yes, I took it personally!
MOSS: I`m sorry! I`m sorry! When you have a young man who is stabbed 28 times, has his throat slashed, is shot in the head, I`m sorry that this prosecutor takes it personally! Because you know something? I would take it personally, too! You`ve got a woman up there trying to say that she shouldn`t be prosecuted, 28 stabs! she doesn`t even have a scab! This is not self-defense!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) correct?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You took that rope, didn`t you.
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would you take that rope, ma`am, if you were in the fog?
ARIAS: I don`t know! I don`t remember taking it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rope, according to you, didn`t have anything to do with the killing, did it.
ARIAS: No, not that I remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, but you acknowledge that there was this rope that was taken, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t you also acknowledge that you were the one that threw it away?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So then you would acknowledge that you`re the person that took it, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And even though you were in this fog, as you call it, you knew, as you`re walking in this fog, to go looking around for this particular rope, as you say, right?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In addition to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining me from the courthouse, also on the story, Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer," and Matt Zarrell, our producer on the ground.
Matt, explain the significance of what has just gone down in the courtroom.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the prosecutor has presented two specific pieces of evidence that are very important. Two days after the murder, June 6th, Arias sent a text message to Travis, saying, Hey, I need to know when you`re going to deposit that check, referring to the check she was giving him for the BMW that Travis gave her.
Then on June 7th, the prosecutor presents a long e-mail Travis got from Arias June 7th. Three days after he`s been already killed, Arias apologizes for not coming to see Travis, an attempt to cover up that she was ever there in the first place.
GRACE: OK. And how do you, Jason Lamm, Hugo Rodriguez, and also Susan Moss, family law attorney in North York -- everybody, again, Jason Lamm, a defense attorney right there in Phoenix, Hugo joining me out of Miami.
Now, how do you justify -- how can you support her, I blacked out, it`s a big fog, when she can remember all of these details and remember to do enough for self-preservation?
LAMM: She`s been a punching bag for him. And I hate to use that term. And I don`t -- in my redirect...
GRACE: Why do you say that? Everything she said has been disproved.
LAMM: Well, you know, I`ll give you the best example in a loss for Martinez. The closet is too small. Her response, It`s bigger than the cell that I live in. For three-and-a-half years she`s been there. Now the jury knows that. That`s nothing that`ll benefit him if there`s a juror there that is close to giving her some sympathy.
My point is, that`ll be cleaned up in the redirect, and I think you`re going to see a different approach on the redirect. She`s got to take whatever he gives.
GRACE: Sue?
MOSS: Sympathy! There`s no sympathy! What this prosecutor has done is show lie after lie after lie! Come on! Who goes and stabs their boyfriend 28 times and has absolutely no recollection? Why would you stab somebody after you shot them? Once you shoot them in the head, they`re debilitated. To say that then you go in close range and stab them if you`re afraid of them -- it makes no sense! This prosecutor has disproved everything!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Not that I remember.
I don`t remember that part.
I don`t remember.
I don`t remember.
I don`t know.
I don`t know.
I don`t know.
I don`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your memory issues, talking about those, right?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
I don`t know.
I don`t know. It could be because I don`t remember.
Not that I remember.
I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re talking about your memory problems, right?
ARIAS: I don`t know that I`d really call it a problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us anything?
ARIAS: I don`t remember.
I don`t know.
I don`t remember.
I don`t remember.
I don`t remember.
I don`t know.
I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t know, right?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
I don`t remember that far back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a problem with your memory?
ARIAS: I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse. And in the last hours, cross-examination ends. And it was a coup de grace in the courtroom for the prosecutor, in my estimation.
Matt Zarrell, how did he end? What were his final questions to Jodi Arias on cross-exam?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, he kind of circled around because, remember, he started cross talking about her comments that no jury will convict me. That`s how he started cross. He ends cross the same way. He goes back to the statement where she said, No jury will convict me because I`m innocent.
And she said -- on direct, she said the reason she did that was she was planning suicide. And the defense -- and the prosecutor asked, Well, that`s two different stories, isn`t it? It`s suicide or you`re innocent. Which is it? And she said, Definitely, I`m innocent of pre-planning or whatever you were going to say. At And at that moment, the prosecutor said, Judge, I have nothing further.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he was in the shower, you began to snap photographs of him, correct?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you wanted to get the Calvin Klein look, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only photographs that are on that camera that were taken that day when you got there are the ones involving the sex. You`re aware of that, right?
ARIAS: No, that`s not true.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you took other photographs that day?
ARIAS: Yes, in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we`re not there, are we.
ARIAS: I don`t know. You go all over the place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) get mad when you took a picture of his buttocks?
ARIAS: No, he just deleted it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m not asking you anything about deleting it. I`m asking you whether or not he was angry at the time.
ARIAS: Not that point, he wasn`t angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t it true that that`s where you claim to have the gas cans.
ARIAS: That`s where they were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pardon?
ARIAS: That`s where they were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so the gas cans and the gas were in the back with the water, right?
ARIAS: Yes, a case of water and my suitcase.
MARTINEZ: And you found that you had some blood on you, correct?
ARIAS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: And back then that was at the time that there was this stop or security checkpoint before Hoover dam, right?
ARIAS: I pulled over before that.
MARTINEZ: Right. You were not so much in a fog that you didn`t know that the checkpoint existed, right?
ARIAS: I didn`t not know that the checkpoint existed.
MARTINEZ: Well, you just told me that was when the checkpoint was there. Do you remember telling me that just now?
ARIAS: I came to know of its existence when I drove up to it, or when there was a sign or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Welcome back, everybody. Jodi Arias on cross-exam all day long and at the end of the courtroom day, cross-examination ends. Now it`s time for the defense to come back in on redirect and try to rehabilitate Jodi Arias, charged in murder one in the death of her lover Travis Alexander.
He took 29 stab wounds, including to the chest, the heart, nine wounds to the back, slit his throat ear to ear, then capped him in the head with a 25 just to top it all off.
Jean Casarez, in the courtroom every day.
Jean, question. The prosecution took very careful pains to go through her story step by step with photos of the crime scene. Showing the bathroom, showing the closet -- let`s see those pictures, Liz.
What was so critical about those questions?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Because the forensics don`t match her story. And that`s the main thing right there. But even the beginning, where she says she dropped the camera and she`s about two feet away from the shower, that`s 24 inches right there. And Travis has one foot in the shower, one foot out of the shower. She`s on her knees. He lifts her up and body slams her. That makes no sense at all.
GRACE: Let`s see a shot of the bathroom, as you step back, Liz. Oh, right there. He made a very strong point about the gun shell casing being on top of dried blood.
Explain, Jean, the significance.
CASAREZ: Yes, well, you see the blood is underneath the shell casing. So you would say the blood came first. But she is saying the shot came first. And he asked her about that. And she said the shell casing didn`t land where it`s shown in the photograph, on top of the blood. He didn`t ask her to explain it, we don`t know how she would have explained it, but her answer shows she`s lying because the photograph shows something else.
GRACE: Well, also, it shows she remembers. Every so often --
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: There are many things that show she remembers. She says --
GRACE: Yes.
CASAREZ: She says that she remembers she got the cup, the glass from underneath the sink. It`s found near the shower. She doesn`t remember anything else, but she admitted that she cleaned up the scene, Nancy. She admitted that today. She could face other charges.
GRACE: You know, she also, at the end of the courthouse day yesterday, she stated that she recalled that that was the shower stall, she recalled -- that was the shower stall, she recalled placing his body back in the shower. So it seems that she will remember here and there when the prosecution tricks her into admitting she remembers something, but her theory, her defense theory is, it was self-defense and I don`t remember what happened.
And also, Jean, when she started to cry finally and I guarantee you that was a calculated episode of crying, the prosecution actually used her tears to his advantage. How?
CASAREZ: Definitely. And I think that he had planned to do this. Did you cry when you shot him? Did you cry when you stabbed him? Did you cry when you slit his throat? And she had to keep saying, no. She had to keep responding, but he used her tears to his advantage.
GRACE: You know, Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer," with us, Martinez made a very strong point of showing Arias repeatedly, Travis Alexander, clean-shaven in those photos.
MIKE WALKER, SENIOR EDITOR, NATIONAL ENQUIRER: Yes.
GRACE: Why is that so critical?
It was startling. When I saw that, the second he put that picture up, just as a man, I looked at it and I went that was guy, you know, shaven. You know, he looked like he had just shaved. And then he followed it up with, and I had forgotten this testimony earlier. He says, well, you know, doesn`t he look clean shaven and she admitted yes. And he says, yes, well, how does that jive with your previous testimony? If you were tied up in bed, she said yes, he was performing oral sex on you, yes. And remember you said you stopped because it was uncomfortable because he hadn`t shaved.
That was a very, very dramatic moment. But overall, it was amazing to me to see, finally, to get a real look at this little honey trap, this poison flower, this manipulative spider, and understand how she could kill a strapping -- you know, healthy man just, you know, face to face like that. And you can really see it.
And now she`s got another strapping man, who is going to be her sperm donor, Nancy, because this little confident spider absolutely believes she`s going to be committed -- acquitted of murdering Travis and that`s the story that`s in the "National Enquirer" this week. She wants a baby.
GRACE: OK. Explain to me, now, of course this guy absolutely denies it, but you have sources that are telling you, she fully believes she`s going to be acquitted and she`s actually planning to have a sperm donation and get pregnant?
WALKER: Yes. This man`s name is Brian Carr. He met her years ago through mutual friends before her arrest. By the way, if he`s saying that -- this is ridiculous, he told a local news outlet, that Jodi Arias is, quote, "the nicest person you`ll ever meet," unquote. He`s at the jail all the time visiting her. Jodi now has a lesbian lover in the jail. A woman about 40, very nice looking, very personable woman, who`s had a long criminal career in and out and she`s due out very shortly.
And Jodi and she are planning to live together. Jodi really think she`s going to be acquitted, and now she has recruited this man, Brian Carr, to be the sperm donor, so that they can have a baby together, she and her lesbian lover. Pretty confident lady.
GRACE: You know, in light of Mike Walker`s bombshells, Bethany Marshall, I think I need a shrink. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Help me out, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, she is so confident that she`s going to get out, because she feels she`s a superior human being, who can do whatever she wants to whomever she wants and that is evidenced in how she treats Juan Martinez. Right?
She straightens him out. She`s aggressive, she`s smug. She tops him. I just hope that the jury has the imaginative capacity to imagine that smug face plunging a knife into Alexander. Because the attitude she had with the prosecutor is the attitude that she had with her lover. And this whole thing about her being in a fog, you know, the interesting thing, women who disassociate -- dissociative phenomena that they`re all hazy and foggy after some kind of a domestic abuse situation, they`re not the kind of women who lie.
Because in order to lie, you have to really remember what you did in order to lie about it. So they should have an expert on in dissociative disorder as it relates to domestic violence. And that would really pull away the veil at this point to expose her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: This telephone came on, you started to make telephone calls, right?
ARIAS: I attempted to. I was only able to send, I think, text messages.
MARTINEZ: I realize that you`re talking about text messages. I`m telling -- I`m talking about telephone calls. You were able to call Ryan Burns, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: And you -- and even though you were in this fog that you`re telling us about, you were able to call him and make up a lie, right?
ARIAS: The fog that I was referring to relates to my memory.
MARTINEZ: Right. It relates to your memory. So you could have told Mr. Burns that you were with Mr. Alexander, but you didn`t, right?
ARIAS: That`s right.
MARTINEZ: Instead you made up a story, didn`t you?
ARIAS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: So this fog that you`re talking about, it wasn`t so heavy that it prevented you from thinking and making up a lie?
ARIAS: Um, yes, that`s right.
MARTINEZ: You made up a lie that you had lost your charger, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: You made up a lie that you had gone to a gas station to get the charger, right?
ARIAS: No. That`s not what I told him.
MARTINEZ: And so Mr. Burns is full of crap when he tells us that?
ARIAS: No, he just has a poor memory on some things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, the prosecution is having a field day with this alleged fog that Jodi Arias says she was in around the time of Travis Alexander`s stabbing death.
Unleash the lawyers. Jason Lamm, Phoenix attorney, joining us at the courthouse, Hugo Rodriguez, Miami. Sue Moss, family law attorney, New York.
All right, to you, Susan Moss, the fog, the fog really rolled in on the defense today when the prosecution got a hold of her on that very thing and outlined one after the next, everything she said that she did during the fog.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Absolutely. And the only way she tried to get rid of the fog was with tears. Apparently her strategy is, if the tears fit, the jury will acquit. But that`s just not going to happen. Because this prosecutor, he took his time, he took a long time, but he systematically went through every lie and this closing is going to knock your socks off, because he`s going to go through every lie after lie after lie.
GRACE: Hugo?
JASON LAMM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but the fact of the matter is, when he`s cutting through that fog with her, he is going down a back alley that he doesn`t want to go down. He is reliving all of the sexual testimony with Travis Alexander, and one thing you may not realize, this is a conservative community. It is a very strong Mormon community. And there are people potentially on that jury that will judge Travis Alexander`s extra -- if you would, extracurricular behavior as being so very different.
Juan Martinez needs to be careful. We know she`s a liar. Her nose has grown so much Pinocchio is jealous of her.
GRACE: OK. Hold on.
LAMM: We get that.
GRACE: Jason --
LAMM: But the fact is, it`s bringing in other evidence.
GRACE: Jason -- hold on, whoa, whoa, stop the train. You can`t have it both ways.
Hugo, he can`t have oh, this is a conservative jury, the Mormons are going to be really angry because what? He was a single man living the life? Yes, he had premarital sex, compared to murder? I mean, if they`re that conservative, I`m not buying into that whole -- the whole -- I mean, I`m religious, but I know the difference between premarital sex as an alleged sin and murder.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: I don`t -- I`ve had a real difficult time with this, the Mormonism and the religious thing. She admits that she killed him. The question is, can the defense now in their redirect present something to the jury based on her cross and their initial that she was justified in taking those actions?
There`s no doubt that she killed him. Twenty-eight times. Was she justified? That`s what they have to do in redirect, they have to show her that she`s remorseful.
GRACE: Well, that hasn`t come through yet, has it, Jean Casarez? Any remorse on the stand?
CASAREZ: No. No. Well, and justified, I mean, how can you say it`s justified if the last thing you remember is that he`s on the ground and then that`s when he`s stabbed 29 times? You know, and they`ve got to show that in order to get that self-defense instruction that this was a justified killing.
GRACE: Jean, I want to get back to the fog, the fog that she was in, and I want to hear all the points the prosecution made to show she was not in a fog. She knew darn well what she was doing. CASAREZ: Before the fog lifted. It`s -- you know, the fog came over. All right, number one, she deleted the photograph, the photograph that showed Travis on the ground and her foot, at the point in time when she`s dragging him to the shower. She deleted it. That took a number of steps, the prosecutor brought out, even though you were in that fog.
The gun was put in her car by her. The rope must have been behind the back board of the bed, because that`s where gravity took it. She would have to go back there, behind the bed board and get that rope because she said she took it with her.
And while the fog was still there, she pulled over, she got the water from Costco, she cleaned her hand. She believes she changed her shoes and her clothes, but she says, I did not put gas in the car from the gas cans at that point.
GRACE: Joining me right now out of the courtroom along with Jean, Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session."
Beth, whoa, what a day. Let`s hear your observations.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: It was really powerful. Hard to keep up taking notes, Nancy. He had her backed into a corner, and it was really a good cross-examination because while she couldn`t remember the killing, he got her to acknowledge that everything that happened to Travis Alexander, she had to have done.
So by the end of it while you didn`t hear her tell it herself how she did it, she did it. She admitted she did it. She acknowledged she did -- she acknowledge there was no threat to her when Travis Alexander was standing at the sink, spitting blood and dripping blood, and she was stabbing him in the back. She glanced at the autopsy photo of all those wounds to his back.
And Martinez said, we can count all the wounds to the back of his head and his back if you want to. He was no threat to you at that time. So many details came out that I hadn`t thought about during that cross-examination.
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GRACE: Jodi Arias on the stand, on cross, breaks down in tears, admits, I did something wrong, then gets down on the floor in front of the jury to reenact the crime.
Out to you, Patty Wood, body language expert. Today was a big reversal in that courtroom. Her demeanor totally changed.
PATTY WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes.
GRACE: What are your observations?
WOOD: Yes. Well, here we`ve been seeing this woman with an erect head, with that smirk on her face, I`m superior, and all this testimony, and today finally he corners her and she breaks down. She covers her head. I don`t want to hear this, I don`t want to see this, this smells bad to me. All those covers, here`s what`s interesting. Even when she`s crying, her voice, I don`t know. She defends herself, she gets those little details in, trying to make that prosecutor look wrong even when she`s crying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Anibal Santiago, 37, Belvidere, Illinois. Bronze Star, Ranger Tab, Army Commendation medal. Parents, Maria and Anibal. Brother Danny, serving Marines, widow Mandy, sons Hannibal and Desmond, daughter Darien.
Anibal Santiago, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: When he body slammed you, isn`t it true that he was out of the shower?
ARIAS: Well, yes.
MARTINEZ: OK, then, why did you tell us that he was still in the shower? Why did you just minutes ago tell us that?
ARIAS: I didn`t say that.
MARTINEZ: You said he had one foot in the shower. Didn`t you say that?
ARIAS: No, I didn`t say he had one foot in the shower. I said I don`t know if he stepped all the way out or if one foot was still in the shower.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Natalie in California. Hi, Natalie, what`s your question?
NATALIE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. Love you, love you, love you.
GRACE: Thank you.
NATALIE: I do actually have three comments and I`ll try to make them quick.
GRACE: OK.
NATALIE: The first one is dropping the knife. She refers to the knife. She recalls the sound of the knife hitting the floor, hitting the tile. Now my observation here is referring to the knife as the knife, not a knife. And I`m not an expert in the usage of words, but when you have a vague, foggy flashback pertaining to a blackout situation that you have no previous recollection of, wouldn`t it just be a knife?
You know, this seems more important for connection --
GRACE: OK.
NATALIE: -- to the instead of A. And also the sound. She doesn`t have a visual of the object. How does she know she dropped a knife, that it wasn`t a spoon or another metal object? She would have to lock at her hand, and she, as she described everything so visually, she would say and there was blood and there was this, and she would do a visual description.
My second thing is washing the bloody hands. She`s driving, comes to realize that she has blood on her hands, pulls over, et cetera, gets to Costco, water drinks and washes her hands. But she has no memory of blood prior to that moment.
If I were driving along, Nancy, and I suddenly came to after a blackout, and I would be frantic that I am driving and that there is blood on my hands. I`d pull over and check --
GRACE: Good point.
NATALIE: -- if I had a bloody nose.
GRACE: Let`s go to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Got an answer for that?
MARSHALL: Well, I think certainly she wasn`t in a blackout, and she wasn`t foggy, and she wasn`t disassociated, and that what I really observed is that you have the breaking through of incredible detail while at the same time this I don`t know, I don`t know, which is, as we said before, malingering amnesia.
GRACE: Everyone, our eye on the courtroom. Now it`s back on the defense to try and rehabilitate Jodi Arias on redirect.
"DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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