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Jodi Arias Trial Continues; Sinkhole Swallows Man

Aired March 01, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Right now in Florida, a recovery operation is under way to find a man's body swallowed by a sinkhole. Jeffrey Bush screamed for help as his entire bedroom collapsed into this hole. His brother tried desperately to save him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMY BUSH, BROTHER OF JEFFREY BUSH: I heard a loud crash like a car coming through the house.

And I heard my brother screaming. So I ran back there and tried going inside his room, but -- my old lady turned the light on, and all I seen was this big hole, real big hole, and all I seen was his mattress and basically that was it.

That's all I seen. So, I jumped in the hole, and was trying to dig him out. I couldn't find him. I heard -- I thought I could hear him holler for me to help him. I didn't see any part of him when I went in there. All I seen was his bed.

And I told my father-in-law to grab a shovel so I could start digging. And I just started digging and started digging and started digging. And then the cops showed up and pulled me out of the hole and told me the floor is still falling in.

Just get closure, I guess, make sure he's not dead, see if he's alive. But I know in my heart he's dead. But I just want to be here for him, because I love him. That's my brother, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So tragic. Crews lowered cameras, they lowered listening devices here into this hole, but there were no signs of life.

John Zarrella is life on the ground there in Seffner, Florida.

John, we know the house is now condemned. The man's family obviously grieving, they're homeless. What's next for them?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Well, you know, Brooke, we were talking -- in fact, just a little bit ago, I was talking to Norman Wicker, who is the father-in-law, and he was in the house at the time and he said that people have been reaching out to them all day today. They do have a place to stay. They have been offered a home that they can stay in for the next couple of months.

And so they are happy, certainly, about that. They have also been told that it is going to be some time before anyone can get into the house. The concern, of course, is that the ground is so unsafe and that the sinkhole perhaps is expanding. Norman Wicker was telling me that they think it may be expanding to the house next door.

BALDWIN: Oh, no.

ZARRELLA: Now, as you mentioned -- yes, and I don't know. You can probably get a good look at it to the right.

(CROSSTALK)

ZARRELLA: Yes, the blue house there is the house which is so hard to believe that there is a sinkhole under there. The bedrooms are on the backside of the house, the two back bedrooms that were swallowed up by the sinkhole.

To the right is the other house they're concerned about. We have seen a lot of fire department, as well as the engineering teams there looking over that situation. And we know that they used that ground- penetrating radar, Brooke, to mark off places. They also used electric probes that they put in the ground to try and get an idea of just the extent of the sinkhole, the depth of the sinkhole.

We know it is at least 25-30-feet deep, perhaps deeper than that, perhaps at least 50 feet wide. As you mentioned, the camera -- now what they did earlier today was they dropped a camera down inside that sewer drain there and they ran it, it was on wheels, and they ran it all the way down the side of the house to try to get an idea of where the sinkhole extends to on this side of the house.

We don't know the results of that were. They're not sharing that information at this point in time. But, again, the situation is painstakingly slow because they clearly do not want to risk anyone else's life going in there at this time, knowing that at any moment if the sinkhole is in fact expanding, that the entire house could collapse around them. So, that's the biggest concern. Don't jeopardize anyone else's life at this time -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: And as we heard from the brother here of this man, he, obviously, feels entirely helpless, as does this family. You talked to the grandfather. This is what he told you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUDDY WICKER, GRANDFATHER: And I have been living there ever since October of '74. And that's my home.

What can you say? It's just -- but I know -- I have listened to other places where they have had sinkholes and everything. I know they're going to just come in there and push it down, be done with it. Fill the hole up, be done with it.

But there's too many memories -- there's lots of stuff in that house, memories. If walls could talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A home full of memories. As you mentioned, John Zarrella, this thing could collapse at any moment in time.

ZARRELLA: Yes.

BALDWIN: John Zarrella for us, keep us posted here as to what is happening there in Florida.

Also today, autopsy results are in for a Chicago lottery teacher who was poisoned after he won. A medical examiner has confirmed Urooj Khan died from cyanide poisoning, his death considered a homicide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHEN CINA, COOK COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: This 46-year-old male, Urooj Khan, died of cyanide toxicity. A lethal level of cyanide was detected in the peripheral blood sampled during the July 21, 2012, inspection of the body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Examiners could not determine how Khan ingested the poison. Authorities had initially ruled he had died from natural causes. It was his brother's suspicions that led to a full toxicology screening.

And now to the budget cuts. They begin, oh, a couple of hours from now, around midnight tonight, $85 billion. And you may have heard the president say it, right here. He cannot force Congress to undo the damage. Can't force the Republicans to see it his way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: First of all, couldn't you just have them down here and refuse to let them leave the room until you have a deal?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I mean, Jessica, I am not a dictator. I'm the president. So, ultimately, if Mitch McConnell or John Boehner say, we need to go to catch a plane, I can't have Secret Service block the doorway. -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Clearly not.

Gloria Borger joining me from Washington, our chief political analyst.

So, Gloria, huge stakes here. Meeting at the White House. You have the president, you have the four top leaders of Congress, lasted less than an hour. I have to ask, was this strictly for show?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes?

BORGER: Completely, totally for show.

The president wanted to make it seem like he was making sort of one last effort, as did the Republicans. The meeting was perfunctory. They all knew that they were not going to agree. It is very clear that they have found no way out of this. The president made it clear in his little press availability -- and what a great question by Jessica -- in his press availability that, you know what, he called it the Republicans' choice to have this sequester.

And in a statement from Republicans, just after the meeting, they called it the president's sequester, i.e. these forced budget cuts are the president's fault.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Yes. There it is.

BALDWIN: We have grown accustomed I think of debt ceiling, fiscal cliff, right? We're seeing Congress run down the clock to just about zero. But then ultimately they reach some sort of last-minute agreement. But suddenly with this, that's not the case. They failed. Why?

BORGER: Yes.

Ironically, it may be because they succeeded on January 1. When they didn't go over the fiscal cliff on January 1, and they couldn't do that because, of course, everyone's taxes would have gone up, and they knew there would be hell to pay for that. They couldn't do that.

But they came up with a deal that did raise revenues. Remember, the tax cuts for the wealthy expired. Because they raised revenues then, Republicans are now saying no way. We gave at the office once. We're not going to do it again seven weeks later. That's crazy to expect that we will do that. We will only talk about closing tax loopholes in the context of tax reform, they say, which would lower everybody's rates.

So the tax issue has become a nonstarter. When the president calls for balance, Republicans are saying, your turn to cut.

BALDWIN: Well, the deadline is Friday. The question is when will people start feeling it. Gloria Borger, thank you for that.

Because we now know how much will be cut, but I want a lot of you want to know, when will I feel this?

That's where CNN's Tom Foreman steps in, because he has answers to your questions.

I know viewers, Tom, have been sending you questions about these forced spending cuts. What have they been asking you?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of them have been asking why Washington gets to talk about it all the time and the rest of us get to live with it, but, nonetheless, a lot of really great questions today.

Ian Ginn posted this question on Facebook. "How will the budget cuts from tonight and later on affect military pay? Will those who defend America be left broke and hungry?"

No, that is not going to happen. And despite the cuts the to overall defense budget, anyone in uniform serving in the country is except from the sequester. They will face no pay cuts and no furloughs.

Rick Weldon (ph) went on Facebook to also ask another question: "Will my federal student loans be put in jeopardy by the sequester?" This was echoed by Harold Mauck, who asked something similar. He said: "I'm a student about to graduate with a nursing degree in four months. I have loans too. How will this affect me?"

Another group that could be directly affected. And it depends precisely on what you're talking about whether you can find a way to bridge the financial gap between your need for the loan and it showing up, and the Department of Education says these cutbacks could slow down the delivery of financial aid to some students who are counting on it.

It could also hurt some work study programs out there, and delays are also possible in the processing of FAFSA forms. If you're in college or you have a kid there, you know what I'm talking about. This is the form that you must fill out to get any kind of aid, including loans.

That would certainly make it tough for a lot of parents out there who have kids trying to make their college choices. Moving on, Russ Blaze hopped on Twitter to ask: "Will my SSI payments in late March be impacted by the sequester?"

No, Russ. That program for disabled adults and children who don't have much money is also exempt from the cuts. And finally, Bill Plante -- I don't think this is my old friend Bill Plante at CBS, but, nonetheless, Bill Plante seemed none too happy when he reached out on Facebook to ask about all those members of Congress leaving town as the cuts kick in. "Who pays for their airline ticket?" He said. "Do they fly first class, business class, or economy class? If the government pays economy class, do they pay the difference?"

We got a lot of comments along this line from various people. Here is what we know about that. In fact, you do pay because there is an allotment for all these Congress members from all over the country to go back and forth. Some of them have a pretty handsome dollar, but they can go broke if they pay all for these airplane tickets back and forth.

Nonetheless, they take this allotment and decide when, where and how they're going to fly back and forth. Many of them do not fly first class except on rare occasions, simply because of the politics of it. They don't want people seeing them in first class. And, nonetheless, some of them get bumped up to first class because they fly so often. So, nonetheless, the bottom line is, you think you paid for it, yes, you did pay for it. And I guess we will pay for it in a lot of ways as time goes on.

BALDWIN: Tom, I guess if people want to keep asking you questions about those first class tickets, about anything else related here to the forced budget cuts, you can. Let me get to the information here, you just need to go to Twitter.com/TomForeman.

Tom Foreman, thank you very much. You can also use the hashtag asktomCNN.

Now to this. Coming up, guess who is in the studio with me? Michelle Williams, Destiny's Child, anyone? You saw her with Beyonce at the Super Bowl halftime show. She's performing all over the country now in this new musical. It's called "Fela!." And she has a new book that tells how she did it while suffering from depression. Her incredible story here in studio in a matter of minutes.

But, first, the twists and turns of the Jodi Arias trial. She broke down in tears on the stand, but it is the prosecutor's behavior that may change this trial. We will have that debate next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now to the sobs on the stand in the murder trial of Jodi Arias. The 32-year-old woman riveted the courtroom when the prosecutor grilled her about what she allegedly did to her ex- boyfriend, Travis Alexander.

Now, the prosecutor here, his name is Juan Martinez, he got her to admit she slit Alexander's throat from ear to ear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: I'm asking if you acknowledge that it would be you that did it, correct?

JODI ARIAS, DEFENDANT: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And you would acknowledge that a lot of the stab wounds and if you want, we can count them together, including the ones to the head, were to the back of the head, and to the back of the torso, correct?

ARIAS: OK...

(CROSSTALK)

ARIAS: ... count them. I don't know. I will take your word for it.

MARTINEZ: Would you like to take a look at the photograph?

ARIAS: No.

MARTINEZ: If he's being stabbed in the back, would you acknowledge at that point he's no threat to you, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, calls for speculation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overruled.

ARIAS: I don't know.

MARTINEZ: Well, if he's already been shot, according to you, and he's facing away from you, how could he have possibly be any threat to you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, some legal minds think Arias, with her performance on the stand, and her admitted past lies, is giving jurors plenty of reason to give her the death penalty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, AUTHOR, "THE CASE FOR MORAL CLARITY: ISRAEL, HAMAS AND GAZA": She is making it much easier. I did an appeal a few years ago in a case from a very prominent lawyer in Delaware who got himself the death penalty because he insulted the intelligence of the jury by lying repeatedly, at least in the view of the jury, about what he had done, and why he had killed the person.

So not only is, I think, she's presenting classic evidence of guilt, but classic evidence that is going to open the door widely to aggravating circumstances that will get her the death penalty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's get more analysis with legal and behavioral experts here in studio with me. We have Paula Bloom, a psychologist and author, and Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.

Ladies, welcome.

Holly Hughes, you heard what Alan Dershowitz said and just watching her perform on the stand, is she sentencing herself to death?

HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't think so. And here's why.

This isn't the end of the trial, Brooke. We're going to see her testimony followed up with a domestic violence expert who I expect the defense will call after her testimony concludes next week. And what they're going to try and do is explain those behaviors to the jury. So they're going to try and soften it up by saying, OK, this is the reason an abused person would lie.

I'm not saying she was or wasn't. But I'm saying that's what the defense is going to attempt to do, is back her up with an expert who says this behavior is not so odd. It is not so uncommon, when we see women kill their abusers.

BALDWIN: But what about just her -- Paula, her behavior in the box? Right? She's not looking, she has her hand over her eyes, apparently sobbing, tissue after tissue. What do you make of all of that?

PAULA BLOOM, PSYCHOLOGIST: It is really, really hard to...

BALDWIN: Oh, the sigh.

BLOOM: Yes. Lots of drama going on here.

One of the things I think is that we make assumptions about people's behavior, so, like, if somebody lost a parent, and you saw them the next day and they were crying, you would assume that that's an authentic emotion related to grief.

BALDWIN: They were sad.

BLOOM: Right, that they were sad. People can be very authentic in what they're feeling, but it may not be grief that she's feeling. It could be fear about getting sentenced or something like that.

So the range of what is authentic is pretty broad. I think what has been really interesting about this is the shifts and how inconsistent what she says with what her mood is has been through all that. I think that's why people are so interested in this.

BALDWIN: What about also the prosecutor here, Martinez? He's coming across in some cases as a bully, is he not?

HUGHES: He is.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: This is his job?

HUGHES: Well, and that's -- it is a very fine line you walk because I have been on both sides of the table.

What you don't want to do is you don't want to make it look personal. This is not Juan Martinez vs. Jodi Arias. This is supposed to be the state of Arizona vs. Jodi Arias.

BALDWIN: Doesn't always appear that way?

HUGHES: That's exactly right.

And that's where you get into trouble, when you make it look so personal and especially in a case where the defense is claiming she's an abused woman, he may come across as one more man beating up on poor little Jodi. He has got to be really careful about that, because if there is anyone on the jury who while they may not believe her entire story, but they have had an experience, they themselves have been emotionally abused, they have someone in their family or a close friend who has been in a physically or an emotionally abusive relationship, and they may not like that and they may hold it against him.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: Yes, just one of the things that I was thinking about is that we don't know what it is like in the courtroom.

People react to other people's emotions and feelings, so us watching it on TV was probably different than lots of people having emotional reactions in a courtroom, so they're not just responding to her, they're responding to what is going on in the room. There's a whole social kind of experience, so I -- my sense is that it is very difficult to really get a sense of what the vibe is, the energy is in there, just from us watching the testimony.

BALDWIN: From sitting inside the courtroom. Holly Hughes and Paula Bloom, thank you very much, ladies.

Coming up next here, Michelle Williams of Destiny's Child here with me in Studio 7. We will be talking Super Bowl, her new musical, her new book. That might surprise you. She's going to get personal with us here live on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Michelle Williams is definitely a survivor.

She has made countless male fans lose their breath, oh, goodness. And, well, I won't say it, but shall I remind you? Oh, she is a member of one of the bestselling female R&B groups of all time. You saw her and the ladies of Destiny's Child surprise -- Super Bowl halftime show much? Now she's here in Atlanta on a different stage, starring in the musical "Fela!."

Grammy Award winner Michelle Williams is here with me now.

MICHELLE WILLIAMS, MUSICIAN: Hello, beautiful.

BALDWIN: Hello. Hello, beautiful. Back at you. Nice to see you and meet you.

WILLIAMS: It's a pleasure to see you and meet you as well.

BALDWIN: Quite a year for you, Broadway musical, little Super Bowl, got an album, got this and that going on. But if I can, right off the bat, I just want to get personal with you as far as you are very open now about your battle with depression.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yes, it was something that I didn't mean to talk about, but it just came on. Like the psychologist said before, it was meant to be for me to discuss it, because that is something that was very private, obviously, because I hadn't spoken about it.

But from what I'm told, and what I'm hearing, that my story has helped so many people. And so...

BALDWIN: How far back does this go? Teenage years?

WILLIAMS: Teenage years. But as a teenager, I just didn't know what to call it. I hadn't spoken to my parents about it. I thought, you know, it was growing pains, or something like that.

And realizing that, you know, choosing to be happy, it is more than choosing to be happy, because I know a lot of people have severe cases of this, but, you know, for me, it was like you have to choose to be happy. You're going to wake up on the wrong side of the bed sometimes, things will bring you down, and I wanted people to know that it is OK to get help. You're not crazy. You're crazy if you don't get help.

BALDWIN: Get the help. Choose to be happy. You're also choosing to create this foundation, your hometown, in your hometown, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BALDWIN: And so tell me a little bit about it, because it is also preventing bullying, preventing suicides. What is your message, Michelle?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

I'm launching it in my hometown of Rockford, Illinois, the Michelle T. Williams Foundation. I'm going to go by the saying, if you change your mind, you can change your life. And it all begins in the mind and how your mind can play tricks on you. It can make you feel like you're less than, you're not good enough, but if you can just tell yourself, you are meant to be here, there is a reason, and a purpose for you here on this earth, you know, you are just not here taking up space, that you can make it and you can do anything that you put your mind to doing.

BALDWIN: Can we talk about, speaking of, tricks? This one here is, I guess, doing rehearsals for "Fela!," somehow surreptitiously getting down to New Orleans, doing some rehearsals, everybody is asking her, are you doing the halftime show, you're like, I don't know. You did it. You killed it.

WILLIAMS: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: You killed it.

WILLIAMS: That was so much fun.

BALDWIN: Give me the behind the scenes. How did you pull that off? How did that whole thing come together?

WILLIAMS: Well, like you said, it was literally two rehearsals in a day, doing a "Fela!" rehearsal, and then sneak in to see the girls for, like, two or three hours a night in New York because we all happened to be in New York at the same time.

BALDWIN: You were.

WILLIAMS: Once again, everything aligned and destiny happened, so that we could rehearse together, snuck down to New Orleans once and then we had opening night in Washington, D.C. for "Fela!" on Wednesday. Thursday morning, I snuck down to New Orleans to see the girls and rehearse again. Sunday, we hit the stage.

BALDWIN: It was amazing.

WILLIAMS: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: "Fela!," that's why you're here in Atlanta. You just got extended two more days through March 6.

So if you want to see her at the Fox Theatre, you can.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BALDWIN: You're a lover, a teacher. You have done Broadway. You have done shows before. What is it about this sort of theater that, I don't know, touches your soul in a different way?

WILLIAMS: Being able to do -- it is eight shows a week. So for me, it is almost therapeutic in a way. I can get stuff on my chest. I can grow as a vocalist, as a dancer, as an actor. All those things mixed into one that I am blessed to be able to do.

BALDWIN: I think we have a little of it. Do a little "Fela!"?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Sultry Michelle Williams, whoa.

Final question. Just musically, I'm a music nerd, who are you listening to right now? Who are you loving?

WILLIAMS: I'm listening to all types of music. Sting.

BALDWIN: Sting?

WILLIAMS: And if I -- please, this is not a plug -- I have been listening to my album. I have got notes to take on this record. Let's see, I guess, ooh, other than that...

BALDWIN: Who did you listen to today?

WILLIAMS: Who did I listen to today? Myself snore.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You're a busy woman. Michelle Williams, thank you so much, "Fela!," FOX Theatre through March 6. Thank you so much.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Brooke. It's a pleasure.

BALDWIN: A pleasure.

Now, speaking of Destiny's Child, tomorrow on CNN, a special event, an inside look at Beyonce, her life, her career, her future, 10:30 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Coming up, Groupon's CEO says an unusual goodbye. Also, "Girls Gone Wild" goes bankrupt. What?

And an NBA player's dad cuts off his allowance.

SpaceX launches a rocket into space, but there is a problem. And rats that communicate telepathically. All of these stories and more -- the power block is next.

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