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Jodi Arias Trial Update; Discussion on the Proceedings

Aired March 06, 2013 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOK BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Want to totally switch gears here, as we're at the bottom of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You will be watching, hopefully, in a matter of minutes, this Jodi Arias trial continuing as we have been all sort of waiting. I know many of you, high, high interest case.

Here is the judge. Here, this is Sherry Stevens. She's the judge in this back-and-forth.

The significance today -- and let me just bring back in my panel. We have Sunny Hostin in New York, Holly Hughes, Drew Findling, and Paula Bloom -- why do I want to call you Lisa Bloom -- Paula Bloom here with me, psychologists and also some criminal defense attorneys and a former federal prosecutor.

So, the issue of significance today as, again, we are waiting for these different members of the jury to -- they will not be reading their questions. This will come through the judge, but today is the day that the members of the jury will be able to ask these questions, and we don't know what the questions could entail.

Obviously, they had this private hearing earlier between the prosecutor, Juan Martinez, and the defense attorney, Kirk Nurmi, to try to go through ...

Here she is, Jodi Arias on the stand, pouring a little coffee before she has some questions to answer.

Going back and forth over what questions would be admissible.

Sunny Hostin, as we sort of wait for the questioning to being, let me just go to you in New York and ask -- it's significant to hear the questions from the jurors because this is really the first moment we get to get inside the minds of the jury, see sort of where they stand, right?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's really, really important, and it is only done in a handful of states. And, so, it's something that most lawyers aren't even used to.

I've got to tell you, I think what is going to be fascinating is that we do get to sort of figure out where this jury is at, what are the holes in their minds, because, typically, when you're watching these trials and you're talking about them, it's like reading tea leaves because, ultimately, you don't know what the jurors are thinking. Well, this gives you a bird's-eye view into what they are thinking. And, so, if they start asking questions about self-defense, then you start to think, well, maybe they're buying this story.

If they start picking apart whether or not she purchased gas, where she got the gun, they're challenging the premeditation that is alleged here, you can really, I think, get a sense of the holes in the prosecution's case or whether or not the jury is buying the defense here by just merely listening to the questions.

So, this is going to be a very, very special thing for folks that, like me, the legal nerds, that love watching trials.

BALDWIN: You bring up, you know, possible holes in the case.

Drew Findling, let me ask you, as holes could be brought up through these different questions, then what if she's not consistent or what if -- we know that some of the questions could also go to, not just Jodi Arias but other experts that they could call to testify.

So, I mean, really, this is when the defense and the prosecutors need to be listening right very, very closely to see what are the holes and how could we, down the road, address them.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the one thing that she's done is she has done -- followed the golden rule of pausing and expressing herself and thinking through her answers, whether you like them or not. She's done a yeoman's job at doing that.

I think what we're really looking and what the lawyers are really looking at is, for the remainder of the case, what are the questions?

From the prosecution's perspective, the questions may indicate reasonable doubt because she has to be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt. Some of the questions may reflect concerns that the jurors have.

The prosecutor will in turn, when it is time for him to put up his rebuttal witnesses, try to call witnesses that may answer those issues.

The defense on the other hand, may say, wow, when we get to put up our experts on the battered women's syndrome and post-traumatic stress disorder, we need to address these issues if the jurors seem to be doubting.

They're going to want the experts to explain Arias such as, well, you stabbed him 29 times, did you need to do it that many times? The expert will come in and say, in a true battered woman syndrome's case -- whether or not this is one, we don't know -- that's not uncommon. There have been plenty of women found guilty with what we call overkill. It's acceptable as part of the defense.

BALDWIN: So, right now, I believe she is standing there looking at the jury. Obviously, we can't see who the members of the jury is. But Paula bloom, how should she handle herself in a situation like this, when she's asked questions from people who ultimately choose to convict her or not?

PAULA BLOOM, AUTHOR AND PSYCHOLOGIST: I wouldn't imagine that the strategy would change so much during this than what it was -- has been during the entire trial.

I mean, I would hope that she would handle herself in an authentic way and be honest.

But, you know, my sense is that the whole overarching legal strategy is going to be absolutely key to what her style is going to be.

BALDWIN: What have you made of her demeanor?

BLOOM: We were talking during the commercial break, it was kind of interesting, about what jail does to you. And I think I haven't really thought a lot about what can happens -- what happens to you as far as draining you, exhausting you. I thought that was a very interesting thing we were talking about and how much ...

BALDWIN: Forgive me, want to interrupt you. Let's just listen in.

This is the judge, Sherry Stevens. Let's dip in.

JUDGE SHERRY STEVENS, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I'm going to read portions of that preliminary jury instruction to you.

If you have a question about the case or a witness, write it down, but do not sign it. The lawyers and I will discuss the question. The rules of evidence or other rules of law may prevent some questions from being asked.

If the rules permit the question and the answer is available, an answer will be given at the earliest opportunity. When we do not ask a question, it is no reflection on the person submitting it. You should attach no significance to the failure to ask a question.

I will apply the same legal standards to your questions as I do to the questions asked by the lawyers. If a particular question is not asked, please do not guess why or what the answer might have been.

Miss Arias, you are still under oath. Do you understand?

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Yes.

STEVENS: I'm going to ask the questions in the order they were submitted.

Did Mr. Alexander pay for a majority of your trips?

ARIAS: No, they were all split 50/50.

STEVENS: If he did pay, was that a factor in you questioning his choices? For example, introduction to others and sleeping arrangements?

ARIAS: He created the itineraries, but not really sure how to answer that. He made all the itineraries for the trips, but we split the cost 50/50.

STEVENS: Was it his money, his choices?

ARIAS: It was his choices on the church history trips because he knew which places would be significant in the church history.

I believe the choices were mutual as far as the lists we were trying to check off or a thousand places to see.

And -- what was the last part of the question?

STEVENS: Was it his money, his choices?

ARIAS: Sometimes it was his money and I would make it up to him through housekeeping. Sometimes it was my money and he would pay me back.

STEVENS: Why did you put the camera in the washer?

ARIAS: I don't have memory of that. I don't know why I would do that.

STEVENS: Did you ever take pictures of yourself after he hit you?

ARIAS: No, I did not.

STEVENS: Why did you call the cops on your ex- who shook you, but you never called the cops on Travis?

ARIAS: When -- that's when he tried to break my forearm. We were wrestling. I was trying to get to the phone. It seemed logical to call 911.

I never did with Travis because that prior experience of calling 911, he grabbed the phone out of my hand, hung it up. It was a very negative experience. He told me to shut up. They're going to call back.

They did call back. He made up an excuse as to why 911 was accidentally dialed. This was years and years later.

As far as June 4th, there were no phones upstairs to my knowledge and for previous reasons he would make up for it in ways that Bobby didn't.

STEVENS: Why would you continue to sleep with Travis after you learned of his child porn issues?

ARIAS: That was not a side of Travis that he wanted to even exist. And, of course, I didn't want it to exist. He had told me that when he slept with ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hearsay.

STEVENS: Sustained. Answer the question without referring to a statement.

ARIAS: OK. I was under the impression that, when he was able to sleep with a woman, as opposed to fantasizing about a child, he felt like more normal as a man.

So, also, I had seen prior to this incident many beautiful qualities about him and good qualities about him and things that were attractive about him.

And I believe that this incident was a negative part of himself that he didn't want to foster or that he was fighting or struggling against and that he had ultimately wanted to eradicate.

STEVENS: Why didn't you just change your Gmail password so Travis could not get into it anymore?

ARIAS: It didn't really become a problem right away when we exchanged our passwords, and so it just stayed that way for many months.

After I moved, it became a problem, so eventually I did change my passwords. However on -- and I know this date because of our text messages and things -- it was May 22nd, 2008. We had a conversation -- that and my journal entries, I remember -- we had a conversation where we decided we're not going to do that anymore.

So, after that conversation, I made no further attempts to ever login to his accounts and to my knowledge I don't think he made any attempts to login to my accounts either.

STEVENS: Did Travis' closet doors have locks on them?

ARIAS: I don't remember them having any locks.

STEVENS: If no, how did you have time to get the gun down if he was right behind you?

ARIAS: I don't know if he was right behind me or not. I just had the sense that he was chasing after me.

STEVENS: Did you record other phone sex conversations?

ARIAS: Yes.

STEVENS: Brian Burns (ph) testified he met you at a PPL event in April 2008 and you had blonde hair.

How is that possible if you dyed it in March 2008?

ARIAS: Well, the reason that is the case is because I didn't meet Brian (ph) at convention in April 2008 because convention is not in April. It's in March, so he got the month wrong is all.

The convention always occurs in September and six months later in March.

STEVENS: Why did you feel so uncomfortable about anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?

ARIAS: In my previous relationships, it was only something we tried one time, maybe two times, and those were long-term relationships. The reason that was not a regular part of the bedroom curriculum was because it was uncomfortable.

And with Travis, that was his preference, and that's one of the reasons I got the K.Y. It made it less uncomfortable, obviously, so that's why it became more regular in our relationship.

STEVENS: You took pictures of the shirt and shorts. Did you take pictures of the Spider-Man underwear? If no, why not?

ARIAS: I did not take pictures of those because that's embarrassing. As opposed to the shorts and shirt which were sentimental to me.

I didn't want to memorialize boys' underwear and I didn't want people to know that that was a preference of his and that I was dumb enough to go along with that preference.

STEVENS: You told Darryl (ph) you wanted to abstain from sex until you were married. If that were the case, why did you have sexual relations with Travis?

ARIAS: Well, my understanding at the time, Darryl (ph) and I did not -- we were not intimate after convention, and shortly thereafter, the missionaries began to come over to my house and preach about the law of chastity.

They didn't overly preach. They mentioned it, explained it briefly, not in great detail. I wasn't comfortable asking these two young kids that I just met in detail about it.

But Travis and I had intimate conversations and he -- how he explained it to me was that vaginal sex was absolutely off-limits and everything else is not as egregious to that law.

STEVENS: Travis stated on the phone sex conversation he did not like Spider-Man. Why did he buy you Spider-Man underwear if he did not like that character?

ARIAS: I don't know why, but they were Spider-Man, and I do know, however, that prior, the year prior he -- there is a child he was close with that really liked Spider-Man.

I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but he was very much into spider-man. He would dress up as Spider-Man. He had the ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, scope. She was asked if she knew why.

STEVENS: Sustained.

Why would you tell Leslie (ph) you wanted your kids to play with Travis' kids if you felt Travis was into younger children?

ARIAS: This, again, is a statement I made on June 5th, and I wanted to be able to -- I wanted to edify Travis only in good ways at that point. I didn't want to say anything bad.

Even prior to June 4th, I only would have only edified him in a good way rather than say anything negative about him. I wanted him to be cast in a good light, not a negative light.

STEVENS: If you had bruises that were visible after the April 2008 incident, why is it no one else said anything to you about those bruises?

ARIAS: Well, that's not really true. The same day that the bruises occurred, there was a PPL associate who made a joke about it. It was very embarrassing.

He just -- there were people around. We were at a business briefing. He joked about it. Travis was in the joke.

And I got -- I don't know if I got beet red, but I felt like I did. I felt like the makeup was covering them sufficiently.

And then, also, Matt (ph) was somewhat confrontational about it and, at that point I was putting more makeup on. I had foundation cover- up, something that was very opaque I was putting on them from that point on.

STEVENS: If you were so nearsighted, how were you able to drive?

ARIAS: I never had a problem driving. When I was on the freeway, I could see objects. They weren't very sharp, but they were sharp enough to where I could see whether or not I was in danger or driving safely or not.

As far as freeway signs, I had to get closer to them to actually see what they said.

But as far as I knew that was normal vision. I had never had glasses my entire life, and in 2010, I put on someone else's just for fun and it was, like, I didn't even know that you could see the world that way. Everything was sharp. So that's when I realized I need glasses.

STEVENS: In Travis' text to Jodi, text 12308, exhibit 444, he talks about the mysterious man you've never seen before that wrote for you.

Who is this man and why is he bringing it up?

ARIAS: That man would be Steve Carol (ph). He wrote me a very nice e-mail, and it went to my Gmail account which Travis read. And when I tried to explain myself, I said I've never even met him, and so he -- I guess he thought he was a mysterious man, but I never met Steve. That's what I told him, and it led to a big fight.

STEVENS: Did Travis think it was someone you lied about?

ARIAS: I think he did, the way he postured his words.

STEVENS: You took a picture of the t-shirt and pink shorts, but not the boys' underwear. Why were the pictures taken so much later?

ARIAS: They were taken in July. I knew my time was winding down, and by that point, I had heard several rumors that said I was obsessed and all these things and I thought, well, if somebody finds these, it does look a little strange to have a shirt that says "Travis Alexander" and "Travis'' across the seat of the back of the shorts.

But I didn't want those to be found. I knew I was going to be arrested, but they were sentimental to me. I still wanted to memorialize them in some way, so I laid them out and photographed them because they were special to me.

STEVENS: You testified that Travis gave you the Book of Mormon at Starbucks. Did you read it thoroughly? If so, when?

ARIAS: I did read the Book of Mormon thoroughly. Following that meeting I attempted to read one chapter a day, and so I finished it sometime -- I think I finished it in about eight months, more or less.

And then thereafter in 2008 I read it -- I started January 1st and read one chapter a day, not always consistently, but more or less and then make up for it and I did that in 2009 and '10 and haven't done it since.

STEVENS: Does the Book of Mormon go into detail regarding the vow of chastity.

ARIAS: It doesn't give explicit detail and it doesn't even say law of chastity to my recollection. It just talks about -- it uses verbiage such as "whoredoms," things like that, being unclean and that's all in reference to sexual sin.

So it doesn't go into detail, but it does reference that those things are considered sinful.

STEVENS: Who initiated contact after the various breakups with Bobby (ph), Matt (ph), Darryl (ph) and Travis(ph)? Start with Bobby (ph).

ARIAS: Let's see. With Bobby (ph)l we broke up and got together so many times, it would be hard to remember exactly what times when.

Let's see. I know there was one time where I was packing all of my things and leaving, packing all my cars, driving away. He lived in Montague(ph). It is isolated. It is a tiny little town, about a thousand people.

His parents had already left to go to into a rest home. He had no food, no money, nothing, so I sort of initiated contact in a way because after I took all my things to my grandmother's house, I went to the grocery store, bought him groceries and brought them over to the house and left them on the door and I left.

And I left and he called me back for that, so in a way I initiated that contact by leaving the groceries on the porch. He knew it was me because he got certain types of food and I got him those kinds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, your honor. The hearing device is coming in and out. I want to make sure we can hear everything. Can we address that?

STEVENS: Yes, we will address that. It could be part of the issue we were having earlier. We're going to give you another headset and see if that helps.

BALDWIN: So, we've been listening here to this judge issuing some of these questions from the jury to Jodi Arias, and you see her looking at the judge and she's answering, of course, looking toward the jury who we can't see on the camera.

Just quickly, as we've been talking, as the questions have been -- let's just share some of this with the viewers.

Holly Hughes, what's your first impression? What do you think of the questions?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think this jury is paying such close attention. One of them actually cited the number of the evidence tag. Oh, talking about text message 2008 and 27, evidence number 44 -- they are taking notes. They are paying attention to everything, and they are questioning really good points.

You know, why did you do this and why did you do that? They are testing to see if she's going to be consistent, if this self-defense claim is really real.

So, I think they've paid very close attention. I think their questions are on point for both sides. It's giving both sides an indication of where they are. And they want to know if this is an authentic self-defense case.

And, as far as her, I've got to say she's doing a great job so far because there's no hesitation. There's none of that, well, I don't remember. I'm not sure.

I mean, she is on it. She's doing a great job, answering very direct, very forthright, not playing that, I was in a fog card we saw her do a lot with the prosecutor.

BALDWIN: More of the questions, we're hearing right around 100 questions. The jury gets through the judge, asks some of these questions, very pointed, very specific questions.

We've got a quick break in here as we are watching Jodi Arias on the stand, the Jodi Arias trial out of Phoenix, Arizona, continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A leading dancer with Russia's ballet has confessed to ordering an acid attack on the company's artistic director. Police say the dancer admits arranging this whole thing back in January. The attacker and a get-away driver are also in custody here, these two accomplices.

Police say the dancer had a hostile relationship with this artistic director who got his job two years ago after a fierce, behind-the- scenes, power struggle.

The director suffered third-degree burns to his face and eyes because of the sulfuric acid.

The family of Reeva Steenkamp, breaking its silence for the first time since Oscar Pistorius was freed from jail, Mike Steenkamp, Reeva's uncle, talking to CNN's Drew Griffin, he hopes he gets the chance to meet face-to-face with the track star who killed his niece.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to be face to face with him and forgive him, forgive him what he's done.

And that way I can find what's probably more peace with the situation.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: And you would forgive him, Mike (ph), whether this was a tragic accident or whether this was ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever, whatever the outcome, I feel that my belief -- and if Christ would forgive when he died on the cross, why can't I? Who am I not to forgive him?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Make sure you watch the full interview tonight on "AC 360," 8:00 Eastern time.

Look at this, spectacular images here, red hot lava. This is Italy's Mount Etna, spewing into the sky. Experts say, though, no one is in danger from these eruptions, but they say, however, there will be a shower of ash falling on local towns after the eruptions cease.

And on the other side of the break, we will take you ...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let's pick back up with the Jodi Arias trial. These jurors through the judge have been able to ask her questions. This is very rare. Just a couple of states in the country able to do this in a trial like this.

Drew Findling and Paula Bloom, just final thoughts here as we've listening to some of these very intricate, very specific questions asked of her?

FINDLING: Well, Brooke, I think one thing to thing about is these questions are on a variety of different issues. And, you know, back to the sex issue again and the viewers have to be thinking, why does a trial last for over two months? And there's only one reason. It's because this is a death penalty case.

The fact that they go to the death penalty, this judge has no choice but to let the defense and, for that matter, the prosecution go into all these extraneous issues that they would never otherwise be able to go into, all the sex talk, defecation talk, the gossip, nothing unturned because this judge does not want to get reversed, so it all comes in and, unfortunately, the Arizona taxpayers, they are writing the check for this as we speak.

BALDWIN: Thirty seconds, Paula Bloom. Interesting, though, you know, someone was apparently yawning in the courtroom yesterday. You listen to the questions, obviously, they're paying attention to a degree.

BLOOM: Right. Right. That's what I was wondering. I'm wondering how different it must be when you're in a jury and you know that you're going to have the opportunity to ask questions, which is so unusual -- only a few states do it -- how does that change how you sit and pay attention?

I am just absolutely interested in these questions and how specific and intelligent, and I'm wondering if the lawyers are kicking themselves, like, why didn't we bring that up? Oh, my God, I can't believe I didn't ask her that.

BALDWIN: Issues being brought up, you know, if there are holes here, they can certainly address them a little later on in the rebuttal.

Paula Bloom, Drew Findling, Holly Hughes, thank you all so much as we continue to follow this.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.

Wolf Blitzer begins right now. Wolf?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Brooke, thanks very much.