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Lots of Jurors Questions

Aired March 6, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, much more of our exclusive never-before-seen video of Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander together as a couple.

JACOB MEFFORD, KNOWS JODI, KNEW TRAVIS: She literally just had a jacket on at a business event with nothing underneath it, just buttoned up, and it was completely inappropriate for, you know, what we were doing.

PINSKY: The man behind the camera is back to tell us about the baby talk, the manipulation, and why he says he wants to kick Jodi in the face.

Plus this -- day 16: Jodi on the stand. The jurors ask --

JUDGE: Why did you put the camera in the washer?

Why did you call the cops on your ex, who shook you, but you never called the cops on Travis?

Why did you feel so uncomfortable about anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?

PINSKY: Jodi answers.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: That`s one of the reasons I got the K- Y. It made it less uncomfortable.

PINSKY: Let us get started.



PINSKY: A lot to get into tonight. Thanks for joining us. My co- host this week, Jenny Hutt from Sirius XM radio.

And we have got more of that never-before-seen video of Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander, together as a couple. You will hear what Travis was saying during that film. He was talking about something very disturbing. It`s more disturbing to me was Jodi`s response to his disturbing story. You`ll see what I`m talking about.

Joining us: criminologist, profiler, and attorney Casey Jordan. I also have Florida prosecutor Stacey Honowitz.

But first, Jodi answering dozens and dozens of questions from the jury. Take a look.


JUDGE: Why did you put the camera in the washer?

ARIAS: I don`t have memory of that. I don`t know why I would do that.

JUDGE: Why would you continue to sleep with Travis after you learned of his child porn issues?

ARIAS: That was not a side of Travis that -- that he wanted to even exist. And, of course, I didn`t want it to exist.

JUDGE: How did you have time to get the gun down if he was right behind you?

ARIAS: I don`t know if he was right behind me or not. I just had the sense that he was chasing after me.

JUDGE: Why did you feel so uncomfortable about anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?

ARIAS: In my previous relationships it was only something we tried.

JUDGE: Did you take pictures of the spider-man underwear? If no, why not?

ARIAS: I did not take pictures of those because that`s embarrassing.

JUDGE: If you had bruises that were visible after the April 2008 incident, why is it no one else said anything to you about those bruises?

ARIAS: The same day that the bruises occurred there was a PPL associate who made a joke about it. It was very embarrassing.

JUDGE: What is your relationship with your mother like today?

ARIAS: It is very complicated. And it`s very strained. Her and I, we rub each other the wrong way, all day long. But nonetheless, there is a deep love there.

JUDGE: You testified that you reported your cell phone lost in May of 2008. When and where was it found?

ARIAS: I left it in my grandfather`s vehicle when I ran in to pay for Chinese takeout. My aunt found it. Actually, she`s sitting right over there in the front row.

JUDGE: What is your understanding of the word "skank"?

Did you ever seek medical help for your medical condition?

ARIAS: I`m not sure what mental condition that refers to.


PINSKY: Strangely enough, we`re all clear about the medical condition, or at least that she has some mental condition. Be that as it may.

"In Session" correspondent Beth Karas witnessed the back and forth.

Beth, what was her definition of "skank"?

BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: Oh, she just said it was a pejorative term for women. She didn`t really go beyond that. She didn`t say a promiscuous woman or someone like that. She just said a pejorative term.

PINSKY: And, Beth, watching the back and forth today, this was yet another Jodi on the stand. She seemed much more animated, much more enthusiastic, sort of -- I had the sense, and, Beth, you tell me if this was true in the room, that she felt like oh, you guys know me, I`m your friend, I`m just going to explain to you how this all went down and we`ll wash our hands of this craziness and get on with our lives.

KARAS: Well, you know, she knew these questions in advance because she had reviewed them with her attorney in the morning. There was a lot of hurry up and wait in the morning as the attorneys argued over the questions. But she knew them.

So she had at least a few hours to think about her answers to them, and she knew this is where the jury is coming from. This is what they want to know about me.

So, you know, maybe she felt this is my opportunity to really sell myself. Did she do it? I don`t know.

But, Drew, they were submitting more questions while these questions were being asked of her.

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.

KARAS: So I don`t know how many more we`re going to get tomorrow.

JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: This is what upsets me. I`m like a girl`s girl, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: I get that.

HUTT: And I have zero compassion for her.

PINSKY: So you get nothing?

HUTT: Nothing.

PINSKY: So the men are creeped out. We don`t like her. Women -- I thought some women -- Beth, I heard some of the jurors were actually smiling when their questions were being answered. Is that true?

KARAS: You know, I didn`t see smiles. I can`t say that that didn`t occur because I can`t see all the faces at all times and I was also taking notes feverishly and trying to see what else was going on in the courtroom. But you know, maybe so.

And we don`t know how many of the 18 jurors submitted these questions. Maybe most of them come from five of the jurors. It`s not as though they`re deliberating and talking, these are questions they have among themselves. These may be just a few very inquisitive jurors.

PINSKY: OK. I hope not. Well, maybe. I`m just wondering if two of them are going to hold up the whole train here and keep everyone in that courtroom for weeks.

But, Casey, do you think the jury is buying the "new Casey" we`re seeing? Do you think there is any change in the relationship she has with the jury?

CASEY JORDAN, PH.D., ATTORNEY: If they`re smiling and continue to submit questions, it is because inherently their questions are mocking her. I think this list of questions should be 150 reasons why we don`t believe you. And the answers are almost inconsequential. They`re rehearsed. The jury I think is just again letting her have enough rope to hang herself.

PINSKY: And you agree, Stacey?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: I agree 100 percent, Drew. I think she`s the most manipulative individual that I`ve seen probably in the 25 years that I`ve been prosecuting. And I think you`re right. I think that she`s trying to play to the jurors. And I think this is her opportunity to be a totally different person, to ingratiate them.

And really what she`s doing is like Casey said, she`s hanging herself more. They`re loving the fact that she`s conflicting herself each time.

PINSKY: It`s actually powerful that Stacey said. Stacey`s like me. She deals with a lot of people, a lot of pathologies. So, done with (INAUDIBLE) meaningful when Stacey says that.

HUTT: Well, I also like that every time she answers a question, she then adds more to the answer which gets her in more trouble. She should just be answering the question directly.

PINSKY: I think she really -- Casey, I really think she`s deluding herself. She looks to enthusiastic about the way she`s talking to that jury. I think she believes her own nonsense.

JORDAN: You`re absolutely right. It`s a process of self- brainwashing. And to her, it`s all theater.

And we know she loves drama. She`s inherently an actress.

I mean, skank? Of course, it`s a derogatory word towards women. But let`s tell the truth. It`s not harpy. It`s not bimbo. It is sexually promiscuous. It`s skivvy.

But she doesn`t want to say the words out loud. She just wants credit for being derogatory because that`s what Travis called her.

PINSKY: Casey, I like it when you describe it better.

HONOWITZ: Drew, can I ask you one question?

PINSKY: Real quick, Stacey, close it out.

HONOWITZ: I mean, do you feel that she is being manipulative? I mean, you deal with people all the time and you see these conditions.


HONOWITZ: Obviously, she is trying to play to an audience now and I think she thoroughly loves the spotlight. I think she loves the attention.

PINSKY: I think, I`m getting to that point, Stacey. I really am. In fact, when you articulated it, I was thinking, yes, I think that`s about right. We`re about there now.

Now, next up we`re going to see more of Jodi and Travis together in exclusive footage. More of that tape we showed you last time. We`ve got a bunch of it. And it`s stunning in a lot of ways.

And we`re going to have the panel you`re seeing tonight and many others analyze what`s going on in that video. There it is. There she is, curled up like a kitty cat in his lap. A kitty cat with a big knife.


PINSKY: And later, a woman who Jodi approached for hair tips. Details of that are disturbing.



TRAVIS ALEXANDER, VICTIM: To think this is how you die. This is it. There was this woman that was seeing all this, from like 10 feet away. She started like crying uncontrollably.

So I got a gun against my temple and he keeps doing this with his gun. And she`s over here, so I`m looking in my peripheral because I don`t want to turn this way. And I`m like, shut up. And he`s like shut up. Shut up. And I got this gun against my head and all he needs to do is squeeze.

So I`m like this woman is going to get killed. I`m look looking at her with all the despair I can muster up in my retina. Do you know what I mean? And it was -- it was -- it sucked.


PINSKY: Oh, that was -- welcome back.

That was exclusive video of Jodi and Travis. It`s so sad when you see him telling that story, when you know where this all went. I mean, for him, sad. For her, spooky.

We are going to show you much more of that video. We showed just a second here.

Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt.

First of all, a mea culpa. I called Casey Jordan, Casey Anthony. That`s how mired we are in this Jodi Arias case. I`m emotionally thrown back to last summer, or the summer before last.

Joining us now is Travis Alexander`s friends Hollie and Jacob Mefford. Hollie is the woman behind the camera.

And, Jacob, how does the Jodi we see on the stand, and we`ve seen several different ones, frankly -- but how does the one we`ve come to know on the stand compare with the one we now see in your video?

J. MEFFORD: She`s completely disconnected. I mean, as you can tell in the video, you know, we were all captivated by what was going on and what he was saying, and she`s completely apathetic. You know, she`s completely disconnected.

She`s not the center of attention in this moment. You can even see when she, you know, raises up. She`s like, basically, like let`s go to -- let`s go to bed, let`s get out of here. You know, she pulls her arm off of -- his arm off of her nonchalantly like it`s no big deal.

It`s just that`s Jodi. Once again, just not connected, not -- doesn`t care about anybody else but herself.

HUTT: But there`s also just so much PDA. I feel like if I were somewhere in a group with my husband I wouldn`t be lying all over him --

PINSKY: Well, and Jodi on the stand has been saying how he wouldn`t let anyone see them together and they weren`t --

HUTT: Right.

PINSKY: -- they would never display affection in public.

And that`s not the case, Jacob, from your standpoint, is that right?

J. MEFFORD: Oh, absolutely not. He was very respectful.

PINSKY: Yes. All right. Let`s take another look now at another piece of the clip from Jacob`s video. Watch this.


ALEXANDER: There he is. Get the F on the ground. You know. And it`s like oh, snap, it`s over. He put me down on my knees and was asking for the phone. And he said I had like five seconds to distribute the wad.

I`m seeing myself face down, blood, full of blood. And I`m like this is death. This is death.

They say that your life flashes before your eyes. Well, I can`t say that. But it`s amazing how many thoughts that you can distribute, I mean, get out of your mind in a few seconds.


PINSKY: Again, it`s just so spooky and sad to know what happened to poor Travis.

Jacob, now, first of all, you want to know from the control room, can people see that video online somewhere at HLNTV?

Yes, please go to You can watch -- will they be able to see the entirety? OK.

The entirety is available for you guys online, Please go there. Because, Jacob, he was discussing a crime scene where he nearly got killed.

And it seems -- you can get a better sense of the story here if you watch the whole thing online. But it seems like Jodi listening to him tell a story about a near-death experience, he`s talking about his life flashing before his eyes. She could not give a damn. She couldn`t care less.

Is that what I`m seeing here?

J. MEFFORD: Yes, absolutely. That`s what makes it so crazy. I mean, you know, obviously, we didn`t know what was going to happen to Travis.

So why were we even recording it? Well, because it was a crazy story. Once again, it`s a near-death experience in Travis`s life in which he conquered and came through. And really, my wife felt the need to capture it. We don`t know why. I mean, now maybe it`s -- there`s a reason that maybe shed the light on the world of what`s going on. But yes, she could care less. That`s definitely Jodi.

PINSKY: And, Hollie, how long before Travis`s death was this video taken?

HOLLIE MEFFORD, KNOWS JODI, KNEW TRAVIS: This would have been a year and a half earlier prior to his death.

PINSKY: Eighteen months.

H. MEFFORD: Yes, about 18 months.

PINSKY: And, Hollie, last night you said something rather striking. You said if you had a boyfriend or husband did not want the video alongside of me here in the video with your husband or boyfriend.

H. MEFFORD: Right.

PINSKY: Tell me about that.

H. MEFFORD: She was just one of those women that you knew -- or at least I knew that she would use whatever manipulation she could to get what she wanted out of someone.

HUTT: Almost unrelenting?

H. MEFFORD: Yes. Absolutely.

And very cunning, very calculated. She knew exactly what she was doing in every conversation, every interaction, even to the smallest -- even in this video. She`s calculated in what she`s doing.

HUTT: And I do think, Dr. Drew, maybe you`ll agree with me, that women can sense this in other women, and maybe that`s the hope with the jury, that women on the jury will be able to sense this about her.

PINSKY: I hope so. Because she`s showing us a different -- she`s so manipulative. She`s showing us a different face on the stand there.

Now, Hollie, when you see that video from that day, I guess this isn`t a fair question. I mean, I was going to ask, did you imagine she was somebody capable of killing?

H. MEFFORD: I knew from the moment I met her that she was someone that was capable of doing something that I didn`t like. I didn`t think it would be this --

PINSKY: Hollie, you say things sometimes that actually give me chills. Last -- it kind of gives me the willies when you say that because that`s so prescient of what happened here. I mean, to say this woman was capable of almost anything, I didn`t respect a slaughter, which we`ve got. But this is a dangerous person.

And that -- I feel so bad for Travis and his family.


PINSKY: All right. We`re going to stay with you guys. We`ve got more of this video to show you guys tonight.

Reminder that HLN is the only place for complete Jodi Arias coverage. Don`t forget,, open 24/7, with tons of up-to-date Arias archives, including our video.

Now, next, Travis`s friends will reveal more about the Jodi they know.

And later, just a little bit later in the show, we`re going to have our behavior bureau, they`re here and what doe s Jodi say? We`re going to analyze it with a panel of experts. What she`s saying in this video, in the courtroom, what does she say without talking?


PINSKY: Welcome back. I`m here with my co-host this week, Jenny Hutt. We have more exclusive video of Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias.

Now, Jenny, during the commercial break I was saying I want to get the perspective of women on this, how you feel watching this woman and I -- a couple things for me.

HUTT: Yes?

PINSKY: I`m so upset I`m afraid I`m going to like curse or something bad is going to come out of my mouth because this is very upsetting material.

HUTT: Right.

PINSKY: Seeing a woman curled up on this guy`s lap behaving like a little feline.

HUTT: Right.

PINSKY: Doctors knowing that, you know, in one pocket is a gun, the other is a knife. I`ll tell you what else. I`m sorry. I`m asking for your feelings and I`m all upset.

HUTT: I just want to tell you.

PINSKY: And let me just say --

HUTT: All right.

PINSKY: -- I reviewed the autopsy photos again. They are available - - please go to and take a look at what`s there. When you see the autopsy photos, it just is all over. You can`t imagine the brutality this woman unleashed on this man.

HUTT: Right. So this is what I think. I look at her and I see this jealous, possessive, just disgusting girl. And it bothers me, like I said earlier, because I typically don`t feel that way about other women. But she has this way of like moving in and sort of like he`s her prey and she possesses him.

PINSKY: OK. Hollie, is that accurate?

H. MEFFORD: Yes, it is. Absolutely.

PINSKY: Hang on, Hollie. I`m going to have to interrupt you. I want to take a look at some more of the video. Let`s get a look at it and I`m going to get right back to you.

Here we go.


ALEXANDER: He`s like give me your wallet. To think this is how you die. This is it. I start weighing the odds. I`m not -- you know, he may not know me. He may.

And you wonder like, well, would I be one of those tough people that`s like pull the trig yore whatever. Or one of those people who talks like their tough or -- you know. (INAUDIBLE) or whatever.

Just to see how you`d react. So I got a gun against my temple. He keeps like doing this with the gun. All he needs to do is squeeze. You know?


PINSKY: Hollie, what did you want to finish with there? Go ahead.

H. MEFFORD: I was just going to say that Jodi`s crazy. I`m sorry. I don`t remember. I got so engrossed in that video of Travis every time I see it.

PINSKY: Well, let me ask both of you. It has to be emotional for you guys. This was your friend we`re looking at here. We`re look at him in an animated moment. Talking about -- this is what kills me -- talking about a near-death experience. And we all know he had that again and it ended differently.


PINSKY: Jacob, the question I have, he talks in this video about how he responded to someone holding a gun to his head. He becomes frozen. Do you imagine that is how he responded to Jodi himself?

J. MEFFORD: I think he was absolutely in a panic. I mean, Travis is not a fighter. He`s a lover. He`s not somebody who`s a physically violent person at all.

So, I can only imagine how scared he was. I think she totally guerrilla warfare, sucker punch, took him by surprise, and, you know, it was over before he even knew it began.

PINSKY: Hollie, I feel like you`re -- what are you feeling? I feel like you`ve got more to tell us. What are you feeling there?

H. MEFFORD: You know, I`ve thought about often what maybe his last thoughts were.


H. MEFFORD: And I`m sure he was so scared. And I always feel like he was shocked, like this person that he -- he didn`t think that she had it in him -- when I told him, Travis, I don`t think that Jodi`s a good person. I don`t think she`s the person you should be with.

He said, you know what? You`ve got it wrong. She wouldn`t hurt a fly. She`s a great person.

PINSKY: Oh, can you imagine?

H. MEFFORD: And I feel like those last moments he realized -- you know, he knew before but he realized in those last moments that she was really capable of what his friends and maybe deep down he thought she was capable of doing.

PINSKY: It`s just --

HUTT: So sad.

PINSKY: Yes. It`s sad. It gives you a horrible feeling in the pit of your stomach.

Jacob, Hollie, thank you for sharing the video. Thank you for coming in and talking with us. I know it`s got to be very disturbing for you guys.


PINSKY: So, hang in there.

Now, next up, his friends say Travis was a great guy and funny. We`re going to talk about the man who is missed by many.

And later, was Jodi what someone described as a soulless zombie? We have someone who knew her and describes her as that and a few other choice adjectives as well.

We`ll be right back.



JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Yes or no? Were you able to see her face or not?

ARIAS: Part of it was shadowed from the TV behind her. I saw part of it.

MARTINEZ: Judge, she`s not answering my question, if you can instruct her.

JUDGE: Miss Arias, listen carefully to the question. Answer only the question you are asked.


JUDGE: You may continue.

ARIAS: Like a linebacker, he got kind of low and grabbed my waist. But before he did that as he was lunging at me, the gun went off. I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything. I didn`t even think I was pulling the trigger. I was just pointing it at him. And I didn`t even know that I shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember stabbing Travis Alexander?

ARIAS: I have no memory of stabbing him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, this is a very small closet, isn`t it?

ARIAS: No. It`s bigger than the cell that I live in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s bigger than what?

ARIAS: It`s bigger than the cell that I live in. It`s not a small closet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, we don`t want to know where you live in. Do you understand that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you climbed on the shelf to grab the gun in a hurry, how is it that nothing was disorganized in Travis` closet?

ARIAS: I only had to step on the edge with my foot. I put up one foot. I only had to just -- well, it`s a shelf. So, I just had to grip the edge and grab it. After I shot him, I didn`t know that I shot him, but after the gun went off, he -- while he was lunging at me we fell over and he was trying to get on top of me. It`s hard to describe the fear.


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: The many versions of the Jodi Arias we`ve seen on the stand. Extra manipulative outtakes there. I`m back with my co- host, Jenny Hutt. Now, I`ve asked -- begged, in fact, our producers to get this next group of guests together. Sly, smart, observant professionals who can tell us what Jodi says even when she`s not speaking.

We are calling them the behavior bureau -- behavior bureau. There they are. Cheryl Arutt is a forensic psychologist. We`ve also got criminal profiler, Casey "Don`t Call Me Casey Anthony" Jordan --


PINSKY: -- is still with us.

CASEY JORDAN, PH.D., ATTORNEY: Happens all the time, Drew.

PINSKY: I hope not. Casey, what does all this mean? You first, then Cheryl.

JORDAN: Oh, gosh. I seriously think it was a huge misstep for her to answer these questions with so much detail. And then, the flip side is, everything we really want to know, once again, "I can`t remember." "I can`t recall." I mean, through all of this, all these weeks, she`s been superficial, avoidant, obfuscating, and she is just downright maddening. I see these questions as truly a way of making Jodi look even worse than she already does.

PINSKY: Cheryl, you`re in.

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, Dr. Drew, she`s just not believable. When she`s answering these questions and talking about the fear, there`s no fear there. Her affect is just completely cool as a cucumber as if she`s detached, and then she puts a little bit of fake emotion in there.

And, it`s -- you know, I have to take issue with what you`ve said before, Dr. Drew, about women not being as creeped out as men. Speaking as a woman and probably representing a lot of women out there, trust me, we are just as creeped out.

PINSKY: Is it creeped out, Jenny, or is it angry and -- men are like withdrawing --

JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: No, no. I`m angry with her --

PINSKY: Angry, yes.

HUTT: -- because I feel a lot of it is just baloney. It`s a willful memory loss. I think that`s a real thing, right? It`s a choice, right, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Well, when I magically forget, yes, sure.

HUTT: Yes.

PINSKY: Expert in this area, Janine Driver, the human lie detector. She is the author of "You Can`t Lie To Me." Janine, you weigh in now. Oh, we don`t have her sound. Is that right? Anybody else hear her?

HUTT: No, I don`t hear her. I think she would probably say she`s lying.


JORDAN: Drew, I want to --

PINSKY: Go ahead, Casey.

JORDAN: Drew, I want to piggyback on what Jenny just said because I think women have absolutely no sympathy whatever for Jodi. I think that`s a complete misread. But, I think they`re really angry because of what this does to genuinely abused, genuinely battered women.


JORDAN: They`re afraid that this could be a huge setback because, now, people will disbelieve them and go back to the abuse excuse. She could be really doing real damage to real victims out there with this dog and pony show. And I think that`s why women are so --

PINSKY: Casey, I think you`re really on to something there because back when this was all getting started, many of us were sort of trying to reach a conclusion about what we were dealing with here. The women who had been through abusive relationships immediately were outraged and angry for the very reason you`re talking about. They intuitively knew that`s not what this is. And they were absolutely right.

HUTT: Yes.

PINSKY: Now, do we have -- Janine, you`re there?



PINSKY: There you are. You`re in. Now, you ring in, then we`re going to look at a little video all together. So, go ahead, Janine.

DRIVER: Here`s what I think. I think my B.S. barometer is going crazy. And what I call the B.S. barometer is our oldest instinct in our brain, that is, it`s built into us when we are born that determines the virtues and the ethics in others and in ourselves. And it goes crazy with Jodi. Why? She has start-stop sentences. She has the wrong tense.

Her cadence of speaking changes. Her mannerism speaking. So, I think our B.S. barometers are taking a real hit with Jodi day after day after day. They`re being worn down. And it`s still going crazy every time she opens her mouth.

HUTT: I agree. And like what Casey had said earlier, she just keeps talking and talking and talking. It`s like she just loves to hear herself talk.

PINSKY: I think that`s -- but I think she`s buying her own B.S., the bottom line here.

HUTT: Yes.

PINSKY: Now, let us all teak a look at another clip from the exclusive video of Travis and Jodi. Let`s -- again, we are going to see a side of Travis that, really, I don`t think has been very much seen out there, which is his sense of humor. Take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s like give me your wallet. I didn`t have my wallet. He said you`ve got five seconds. Anyway, it was a big fiasco. And fortunately, someone else threw their wallet out, which is irrelevant to the story. But he took off and he took my cell phone. So, I call my cell phone.

Just I was getting like chains of voicemail to like something. Don`t leave me personal information. Well, I call up. Hello. And I`m like, yes, I`m the guy you stole this phone from. I`d like it back. And he`s like, F you, man. I talked to him for like 30 minutes. Anyways, it was a weird story.


PINSKY: OK. My behavior bureau has been examining what we just watched as well as the tape we`ve aired previously. I`ll start with you, Janine. What`s your reaction to Jodi`s behavior during Travis talking about something -- a genuinely important experience of his where he nearly lost his life?

DRIVER: Right. So, she`s completely not interested, which is obvious. I don`t think you need to be a body language expert to see that. But the interesting part is it`s not just her behavior, Dr. Drew. Look at how the other two people to the left of Jodi are sitting. They have their right leg, which is closest to Jodi, crossed on top.

So although Travis, their friend, their good friend, is telling this fascinating story, so fascinating that the two guests you have on tonight took the time to videotape it, but yet, the people sitting right next to Jodi are giving her what I call the cold shoulder. Their bodies are angled away.

Their leg closest to her is zeroing out and totally isolating this person who is totally inappropriate, curled up on a couch like my seven- year-old son, Angus, would do if he was tired. It`s ridiculous.

PINSKY: Casey. Go ahead, Casey.

JORDAN: Yes, same thing. Not just nonchalant and disinterested. But Dr. Drew, she is being disrespectful to the man she`s with. We all have had spouses or partners who tell kind of boring, monotonous stories at dinner parties. You sit up and you smile and you go yes, I`m with him. And you pay attention to the story. And he is so animated.

He`s waving his hands around. And she`s annoyed that she has to sit up because he`s being all animated while she`s trying to sleep on his lap.

PINSKY: Cheryl?

ARUTT: Her behavior is saying this isn`t about me, I`m bored, get me out of here. And he wasn`t telling a boring story. He was telling a story that was sort of showing off his bravado, that you know, I`m a young guy who can face danger --


ARUTT: -- and persevere.


ARUTT: And trying to impress the people he was with, and she just would have none of it.

PINSKY: Yes. Cheryl, I think you`re on to something, because, first, I said feline. Show me the whole panel up there now. I want to show and react something about to say. First, I said feline, then I said feline with a knife, now, I`m going to say castrating kitty.



PINSKY: Am I right? Is that in the target zone there?

ARUTT: Except for the point that Jenny made on Monday --


ARUTT: -- which is that curiously, she never went for the genitals when she stabbed him all those times.

PINSKY: I`m going to think on that. You`re right, Cheryl. I thought of that when I thought about castrating kitty, but certainly, the feeling is that. That`s the one she gives you. I think, listen, what is castrating but really destroying the person, everything about them? She went all the way past the genitalia and got everything.

ARUTT: Right.

JORDAN: The heart. She stabbed him in the heart.

PINSKY: Janine.

DRIVER: Why would she go after the genitals? She dragged his lifeless dead body back to the shower to bathe him to then say you`re mine. You know, Jeffrey Dahmer (ph) tried to turn someone into a zombie by drilling a hole and pouring acid in their brain.

PINSKY: That`s what I`m saying.

DRIVER: She was saying here`s my little zombie, you belong to me now.

PINSKY: I`m going to go now throw up.

HUTT: Yes. Me too.

PINSKY: Thank you to my panel. We`re going to bring you all back for more conversation about this. This is excellent. Ladies, thank you.

Up next, guest -- my next guest calls Jodi stupid, soulless, stalker. She`ll tell us why. Only "S" words.

And later, my jurors are back. What would they want to ask Jodi?


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, following that excellent panel. Julie Christopher back with us. She was one of Travis`s friends. She knew Jodi. Now, Julia, I want to ask you a quick question. You told one of our producers -- first of all, I Heard that maybe you were present in that room or have heard that story that Travis was telling in that video we were just looking at. Is that accurate?

JULIE CHRISTOPHER, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FORMER CO-WORKER: Yes, sir. And Dr. Drew, you know, can I go ahead and share --

PINSKY: Please.

CHRISTOPHER: -- what happened?

PINSKY: Please.

CHRISTOPHER: OK. Well, you know, we were training, and then, I was sitting down for that training. And Travis came on stage to do his training. And Jodi`s sitting next to me on the left side, on my left side, and she`s got her big camera with her. And at that time, you know, they already have broken up. So, they were not together. So, he came on stage and he said to everyone, you know, I want to share a story.

And he was very emotional. And he shared that story that he was -- you know, somebody had a gun at his temple, and then, he was very emotional. I think the whole place got emotional. Except, Dr. Drew, for Jodi. Jodi`s sitting next to me taking pictures. It was so strange that she looked at me. She said, you know, Julie, he changed my life. He`s so beautiful.

I love him so much. And she was excited about the story, but more than anything else, taking pictures of Travis like she was getting off on the story. That was just so weird.

PINSKY: You`ve also talked to my producers and described Jodi as soulless and stupid. Explain.

CHRISTOPHER: You know, zombie-like. The first time I met Jodi, I immediately go into, OK, this is a woman that I don`t want near my husband. She`s very either egocentric, very self-centered. She feels very awkward. And that sexual energy that comes out of her, but it`s not good, you know? Nothing good about her.

PINSKY: I get that. We`re all on that page. But let me ask you something. I was going to get into the whole thing about her touching your hair and that whole weirdness, but I want to do something else. You`re in -- what you call an intuitive, right? And you sort of have --


PINSKY: -- an intuitive response to these people when you`re around them. I know you warned Travis about her. You saw clouds around him. When you look at this video that we`ve been watching tonight, do you see anything there that you can shed light on for us?

CHRISTOPHER: Well, you know, the video is very simple. This is again -- again, you can see that woman careless. This is someone who didn`t care about anybody else but herself. And you know, I never saw this woman around Travis being, you know, affectionate or anything like that.

HUTT: She`s being affectionate here, though, but it`s possessive, I think, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That`s interesting. She`s looking at this video and saying that`s not affectionate, because affectionate would have been somebody saying oh, my God, what a story. I want to hold you. I want to make you respond to your feelings, you know, sort of reflect them. Go ahead.

CHRISTOPHER: This is -- exactly the video we see. Jodi was just like a shape and form. You can always see that she was always carrying herself appropriately so everybody -- so she`d get attention for everybody. You know, the hair, the positioning. Very calculated. And you know, and again, I really believe -- and you can even pick up on the video, that it`s almost like she wanted Travis to get away from his business. She wanted to get him out of the circle of friends.

PINSKY: That`s a good insight, Julie. I think that`s, in fact, what she tried to do, is isolate him from family and friends. People complained about that. And that`s what people do that are up to no good.

Julie, thank you for your thoughts. We really appreciate it here.

Next up, my jury. What did my jury in the courtroom think of the real jury`s questions as well as Jodi`s answers? Find out after the break.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why didn`t you call 911?

ARIAS: I was very scared of what would happen to me, of what would -- I was scared at that point of what was going to happen. I mean, I knew that -- well, I felt that I had done something wrong. And I don`t have really an adequate explanation for my state of mind following that.


PINSKY: It`s time for Drew`s jurors. I`m back with my co-host from Sirius XM radio, Jenny Hutt. Joining us, the jurors, Katie Wick and Cheresa Hanes. All right, Katie, the jury had something like 100 questions today. How do you think Jodi did?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": Well, Jodi always does well answering questions. It`s just is she telling the truth or not? And what I took away today, Dr. Drew, is that Juan Martinez has succeeded, thus far, in poking enough holes in Jodi`s testimony about the abuse. When I was on your show a few weeks ago, I said if he can put doubt in that jury`s mind and get rid of that abuse, there`s no self-defense.

And he, thus far, is succeeding, and he, once again, is showing us why he is somebody who put one of the three women on death row in the state of Arizona. I think there`s a better chance today after hearing these jury questions, Jodi might be number two.

PINSKY: Cheresa, do you agree with Katie? And one of my guests said that some of these questions were really mocking Jodi. Did that come through in the courtroom?

CHERESA HANES, DR. DREW "JUROR": Absolutely. They were mocking Jodi completely. There were some really funny questions. There were some times when we had to contain ourselves from not laughing in the courtroom, because we`re not allowed to do that. And, we can just tell that the jurors are sick and tired of her.

They don`t want to see her up there anymore. I`m mad at her being up there. So, I can just imagine how they feel. I know that they want her to get off that stand right now. They don`t want her to be there anymore.

PINSKY: Jenny.

HUTT: Also, there was just some -- I mean, everything is lies, but there was one time when she was asked was she upset that he was taking another woman to Mexico. Every woman would have been upset when a guy takes another woman to Mexico.

PINSKY: What did she say?

HUTT: She said she wasn`t upset.

WICK: Yes.

PINSKY: How did that read in the courtroom? That`s so disingenuine. What do you think?

WICK: Oh, amen to that one, because that question I was writing notes and I wrote out in all caps and circled and put a bunch of stars. I believe in so many women that I`ve spoken with this is the essence of this case. And it goes to the whole idea of estrangement, Dr. Drew.

I don`t know if you`re familiar with it, but it`s this idea that when there`s a jealous lover in a relationship and the other person makes this public declaration of separation that they in essence, quote/unquote, "snap." And I think this Cancun trap was that -- trip was that idea of estrangement for Jodi thinking, wow, this is going to be Travis`s public declaration. We are no longer an item. Nobody`s having him but I am.

PINSKY: It will be interesting to see if the experts that we`re going to sit through yet will have something to say about those sorts of theories. Scott in Canada, what do you got?

SCOTT, CANADA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Just two quick questions. Did any of his friends, roommates, or family know if Travis ever had a journal? And also, maybe, can you help explain why Travis ever kept up a relationship with an obvious psycho, because if it was me, it would have been a restraining order.

PINSKY: I couldn`t hear what your question was because somebody was talking to me.

HUTT: He was just saying that why do you think that Travis kept up this relationship with this obvious psycho?

PINSKY: He was -- we had an expert on, Scott, a couple weeks -- or about a week or so ago who`s an expert in sexual addiction, and I asked him was Travis a sex addict? And he said no, but sometimes, the right manipulative person will suck somebody into an addictive quality in their sexual relationship with that person. And it sort of made sense to me that that`s exactly what had happened here. That`s what you`re talking about when you talk about Jodi`s behavior.

HUTT: But wasn`t he also relatively inexperienced prior to Jodi?

PINSKY: Apparently, very inexperienced. Did you, guys, hear this in the courtroom at all? That, apparently, this was all brand new territory for poor Travis.

HANES: That`s what they were saying in the courtroom.


HANES: It`s speculation to some people.

WICK: But you know, it`s funny that you say because we had this sentiment, you were saying earlier about the jury sort of mocking Jodi`s testimony. And, it`s almost like they`ve taken on Juan Martinez`s style inadvertently, kind of saying -- they say is it -- was it this Jodi or was it that? And all I hear is Juan Martinez, in my mind, saying, which is it, ma`am?

And basically, they`re saying the same thing. They are just calling Jodi out left and right on her contradictions, and she cannot be down at the jail right now feeling too proud of her performance today, but the truth will prevail ultimately.

PINSKY: Well, we`ll see. I hope so. I`ve sat here and said things like that during Casey Anthony, and lo and behold, I was sorely disappointed. But thank you, ladies, we will have more of the exclusive Jodi and Travis video tomorrow. The video we`ve been showing you. Again, you can get it at if you want to take a look at it.

Also -- I beg your pardon, However, on HLN, all day, every day, you can get live coverage of the Jodi Arias trial. And we will be back after this.


PINSKY: How long can Jodi Arias remain on the stand? Apparently, many more juror questions for her to answer tomorrow. We have more of the exclusive video that we`ve been showing you and an interview with one of Travis Alexander`s former roommates. He says Travis was frustrated by a clingy Jodi who was, quote, "driving him crazy."

This is his first interview. Be sure to tune in for that tomorrow. Thank you, jenny, for joining us today.

HUTT: Thank you, but Dr. Drew, I have a question you must answer tomorrow.


HUTT: Which is I want to know what it means like Jodi`s alleging when a man predominantly wants to have anal intercourse with his woman.

PINSKY: He -- the allegations are that it had something to do with the Mormon religion, he was taking exceptions, but you`re wondering whether there was something motivated like for reals (ph) there.

HUTT: Right. I don`t know.

PINSKY: Well, we`ll talk about that. A reminder, HLN`s coverage of the Jodi Arias trial begins at 12:00 noon eastern time tomorrow with Kyra Phillips and "Raising America." I will be on "Raising America" tomorrow as well, giving an update on Jodi Arias as well as describing some very outrageous cases about young children being held in handcuffs in jails by law enforcement.

How far do we go to contain inappropriate behaviors? Jenny, thank you. Thank you to my panel. Thank you to my guests. Thank you to those of you that called in. Of course, thank you to those of you who watched. And guess what, "Nancy Grace" will start right now.