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Jury Question Time in Arias Trial
Aired March 6, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why would you continue to sleep with Travis after you learned of his child porn issues?"
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I was under the impression that when he was able to sleep with a woman, as opposed to fantasizing about a child, he felt like more normal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why did you call the cops on your ex, who shook you, but you never called the cops on Travis?"
ARIAS: I never did with Travis because that one prior experience with calling 911, he grabbed the phone out of my hand and hung it up. It was a very negative experience.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why did you put the camera in the washer?"
ARIAS: I don`t have a memory of that. I don`t know why I would do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why did you feel so uncomfortable about anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?"
ARIAS: My previous relationships, it was only something we tried. Travis -- that was his preference, and that`s one of the reasons I got the KY. It made it less uncomfortable.
I was taking photos of him, facing him in the shower. He got very angry, and he stepped out of the shower. He lifted me up from the crouched position with enough force that my feet came off the ground momentarily, and he body-slammed me.
I instead went for the gun, grabbed the gun.
He turned, and I just wanted him to stop, so I pointed the gun at him, hoping that that would just make him halt. And it didn`t. Instead, he lunged at me right around the time that the gun went off. And I didn`t mean for it to go off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
After a scathing cross-exam by the state, then the defense moved to rehabilitate Jodi Arias on redirect. Bombshell tonight. Murder defendant Jodi Arias on the hotseat as she tries to field over 100 questions from the jury. And let me tell you, these jury questions are doozies.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, joining us from "In Session." Jean, we`re all camped out here outside the courthouse to bring everybody the latest on what`s gone down in the last couple hours. These questions were bombshells, nearly every one!
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Let me tell you about the jury, because I was so focused on them. And they were different from what I have ever seen before. They were focused, intent, watching Jodi, listening to the answers as she speaks right to them. But I didn`t see anybody taking notes except one woman. They were just watching her, listening to every word.
And Nancy, right in the middle, as Jodi is talking, one of the jurors says, Excuse me! Excuse me! He couldn`t hear. And he didn`t sit there too embarrassed to let anybody know. And he`s wearing headphones because he has a hearing problem. But he, in front of everybody, said, I can`t hear. And the proceedings stopped until they fixed the audio issue so he could hear again in his earphones. What a juror!
GRACE: Man! Man, that shows they are listening to every single word she`s saying. Now, I noticed a difference in her demeanor as she`s trying to explain all these questions to the jury.
Out to you, Matt Zarrell. A lot of bombshell questions. Which ones stick out in your mind?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, this is actually the real direct testimony because the jurors are being entirely direct with their questions.
Some of the best ones I like, which we`ve talked about on the show many times -- If you climbed on the shelf to grab the gun, why was nothing disorganized? If you shot him first, how did the casing land on blood? And why did you try to get out of the house after you shot him to get away?
And also, another focus, Nancy, that Arias constantly testified that Travis was the priority. So the jury asked, If Travis was always the priority, why didn`t you call for help after he was shot? Why did you leave?
GRACE: You know, a question that I thought was significant was, Why did you slow down to delete photos off your digital camera after you had just killed Travis Alexander? Why did you put the digital camera in the washing machine?
If you thought Travis Alexander was directly behind you, chasing you to kill you, why did you take the time to climb up on a shelf and get down a gun? If you acted in self-defense, why didn`t you call 911?
And here`s another doozy. They said, If you didn`t like Travis Alexander`s sex fantasy of tying you up to a tree and having anal sex, why did you go look for a tree? Now, that was a question I didn`t see coming, Matt Zarrell!
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy. They went through it, and in fact, she does not have an answer. She says, Well, it wasn`t a place to be tied up. It was a place to carry out the Red Riding Hood fantasy. But either way, Nancy, she is going along with this, which goes against her idea that Travis controlled everything.
GRACE: Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent "In Session." Everybody, we are camped out here, right outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the very latest in the trial of Jodi Arias, Arias on trial for murder one in the slashing/stabbing death and shooting death of her then lover, Travis Alexander.
Jean Casarez, what are some of the most critical questions that you heard in the courtroom today from the jury?
CASAREZ: First of all, they are looking at the details. They`re not looking at the big picture, they`re looking at minute little details and they`re really focusing in on her truthfulness, or her lack this thereof, of domestic violence incidents, wanting more specifics on that, about Travis liking pictures of little boys and child porn, and really just the veracity of the time of the attack.
She was asked to go through that attack again step by step, and she forgot initially to say after he fell forward that he then issued the profanity against her. She did say that, though, but it`s -- Nancy, and this is the way I thought it was -- after she shot him, she says he then said to her he was going to kill her, not before.
GRACE: You know what? That is a critical, critical moment...
CASAREZ: It is.
GRACE: ... as the scenario unfolds. You know, another thing -- and you can tell these jurors have been listening to every single fact. I thought a couple of them had zoned out, but I was wrong because they asked -- Jean Casarez, they said, you took so many pictures, so many pictures -- you took pictures of yourself wearing Travis Alexander underwear. Why not take a picture of the Spidey underwear?
CASAREZ: Good question. In fact, I think there were a couple questions on that, and the answer was that she didn`t want to memorialize it. She didn`t want to keep that. The other was special to her. That wasn`t.
But Nancy, I`ve never said the jury has zoned out because I don`t believe they have. I`ve watched them, and they`re intent and they`re focused every step of the way, in my opinion.
GRACE: I was afraid they had zoned out because they just got numb of all the XXX-rated sex talk. I mean, the first couple of hours you hear it, it`s a little shocking. But then after 15 days of it, not so shocking anymore, just more irritating than anything else.
We are taking your calls. Out to Karen in Illinois. Hi, Karen. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, she had testified earlier that when she blew up his BMW, he was very nice about it and didn`t get mad. Then why would he get so upset over a camera dropping? It doesn`t really make sense to me. You would think he would be more upset about the car.
GRACE: Karen in Illinois, not just the car that she blew out by, I guess, not shifting the gears correctly, but slashing his tires twice, slashing the tires of a new girlfriend, hacking into his bank account, his e-mail account. If he didn`t blow a gasket over that, why would he get upset because she just dropped a digital camera, a digital camera that really shows no signs of being damaged and a digital camera that managed to make it through the wash cycle? Good question, Karen. I`m just wondering if the jury is going to address that.
To you, Matt Zarrell. Did they address that? And what do you make of the question that they said, You told Darrell -- another boyfriend of Jodi Alexander -- Jodi Arias -- you told Darrell you wanted to abstain from sex before marriage. Then can did you then rush into a sex relationship with Travis?
See, it`s not just the question, Matt, that I`m asking the answer, it`s the tone. It`s the, If this, then why that? It`s not an open question. It`s the question suggesting they don`t believe her, Matt. And what`s her answer to that?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, let me start with the money issue first. I`ll deal with the first question first. So the money issue -- they did ask about financial issues. They asked about going on trips. They also said, Why can`t you remember Travis lending you money, but you remember exact amounts you lent him? And she said those amounts are documented in her journal.
Now, for the sex, the way she explains it is that she wanted to abstain from sex, and then after she talked to Travis, she got a different understanding of what was OK and what was not OK in the Mormon church. Specifically, vaginal sex was not OK and everything else was OK. And at that point, then she said she was OK going through with it.
GRACE: You know, another question, Alexis Tereszcuk -- everybody, we`re camped outside the courthouse. And the reason we`re so animated at this moment is because the juror questions are the best questions I`ve heard so far. No offense to the prosecution or the defense camp because they are governed by rules of evidence, and these questions -- both sides have had them since yesterday around 3:00 o`clock. They`ve had all night to go over them and lodge objections and prepare for answers. But these are some of the most pointed and direct questions I`ve heard so far.
For instance, Alexis Tereszcuk, joining me from Radaronline.com -- she`s been following the trial from the very beginning -- well, since before the beginning, when the murder first happened. Why would you tell a friend you wanted your future children to play with Travis Alexander and his children some day if you knew him to be a pedophile? That was a devastating question.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Yes. And what they`re doing is they are getting to the truth. Jury -- Jodi doesn`t have her lawyer stopping her at any time during these questions. She has to answer flat out. And so what they`re doing is exposing her lies.
She has now come up with a story that she wanted everybody to think Travis was great and that she was covering up for his past, that nobody else has ever spoken about. Not one single person who has ever met Travis has ever said anything about him being a pedophile, and this is just Jodi`s story, and the jurors understand this.
So they are directly questioning her on the smallest details that they recognize it`s an inconsistency in her story, and they know that it was the day after he was murdered and she is already lying about it and covering up, which -- and she spent the last five years lying about it.
GRACE: You know, Alexis, on that issue, you said nobody else knew about him being a pedophile. And of course, pedophilia and child molestation always happens behind closed doors. People don`t know that it`s happening.
But your point is well taken because when police came to search Travis Alexander`s home -- they searched his laptop, his desktop, his cell phone, everything, his attic, his desk, his home office, everything -- there is not even a suggestion that he ever visited a child pornography Web site or a pedophilia Web site, much less downloaded that type of images.
OK, we`re all talking about what happened in court. Take a listen to Jodi Arias trying to field jury questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You took a picture of the T-shirt and pink shorts but not the boys` underwear. Why were the pictures taken so much later?"
ARIAS: They were taken in July. I knew my time was winding down. And by that point, I had heard several rumors that said I was obsessed and all these things, and I thought, Well, if somebody finds these, it does look a little strange to have a shirt that says "Travis Alexander`s" and "Travis" across the (INAUDIBLE) on the back of these shorts. But -- so I didn`t want those to be found. I knew I was going to be arrested. But they were sentimental to me, so I still wanted to memorialize him in some way. So I laid them out and I photographed them because they were special to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If you were so nearsighted, how were you able to drive?"
ARIAS: I never had a problem driving. When I was on the freeway, I mean, I could see objects. They weren`t very sharp, but they were sharp enough to where I could see whether or not I was in danger or driving safely or not. As far as freeway signs, I had to get closer to them to actually see what they said.
But as far as I knew, that was normal vision. I had never had glasses my entire life. And in 2010, I put on someone else`s just for fun, and it was like I didn`t even know that you could see the world that way. Everything was sharp. So that`s when I realized I need glasses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: We fell with pretty good force down in the corner, near 15 but not quite that close. It was kind of near the sink, kind of, sort of, that area. And he fell kind of on top of me but to my right.
I didn`t want him to get on top of me. He was grabbing at my clothes. He was trying to get on top of me.
I don`t know where the gun went. At that point, it was not in my hands anymore. If it got knocked out of my hands or if I dropped it -- but I broke away from him. And as soon as I broke -- the moment I broke away, that`s when he threatened my life.
I have no clear memories after that at all. It`s -- things began to get really foggy after the gun went off. And I know he was screaming and cursing. I don`t remember exact words, except the ones he said to me right after I dropped the camera, which was about a 5-year-old able to hold a camera better than me and that I was an idiot, and he was using profanities with those statements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you see Jodi Arias in the last hours on the stand, trying to field over 100 questions submitted by the jury. And in the middle of one of her responses, one of the jurors said, Whoa, whoa, wait. I can`t hear. So they are absolutely hanging on her words right now. And according to Jean Casarez they have quit taking notes and they are listening intently.
As the jury questioning went on, the questions got much more pointed, did they not, Matt Zarrell.
ZARRELL: Yes, they`re actually asking her a lot about her relationships, how many men she was willing to be with at the same time, why she started a relationship with Ryan Burns when she said she was monogamous. And this, Nancy, goes to our thing about double standard, that it was OK for Arias to do stuff when she was with Travis, but if Travis did stuff when he was with Arias, Arias would always freak out and confront him about it.
GRACE: OK, what did you say about, How many men -- what?
ZARRELL: How many men are you willing to be with at the same time, is one of the questions that was posed to Arias by the jury.
GRACE: How did she field that one?
ZARRELL: She`s trying to explain that she only believes in a monogamous relationship, and she was only with one guy at one time. But again, Nancy, I bring up Ryan Burns, that she says she didn`t know Travis was dead when she got on top of Ryan Burns one day later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why would you tell Leslie (ph) you wanted your kids to play with Travis`s kids if you felt Travis was into younger children?"
ARIAS: This, again, is a statement that I made on June 5th, and I wanted to be able -- I wanted to edify Travis only in good ways at that point. I didn`t want to say anything bad. Even prior to June 4th, I only would have edified him in a good way, rather than saying anything negative about him. I wanted him to be cast in a good light, not a negative light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jodi Arias on the stand, trying to field over 100 questions asked by the jurors themselves. And the jurors are watching intently. That`s what went down in the last hours in the Phoenix courthouse.
We are here live, bringing you the very of latest what`s going on in the Jodi Arias murder trial. And as far as the juror questions, this should be a tell-tale sign -- Travis Alexander`s brother and sister are having facial reactions. They are actually reacting to the questions the jury is asking. They like the questions. They are positive reactions.
They are shaking their heads on questions about why she sent, Arias sent, the grandmother flowers, and about all the child pornography testimony because -- you know, I want you to recite it, Jean Casarez, about Jodi Arias sending the grandmother, Travis Alexander`s grandmother, flowers, sympathy flowers, after she murders Travis and before anyone knows it.
CASAREZ: Her answer is, Well, it seemed like I had to do it. It seemed like that I need to continue to cover this up, and it was the right thing to do so that no one would find me out. That seems to be her answer.
Now, on the one hand, you could say, Wow, she`s really being honest here. She`s really being honest. But when you look at what was done to the grandmother, your heart just bleeds in pain because this was an elderly woman that lost the grandson she raised, and she got 20 irises from the killer.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, felony prosecutor, death penalty-qualified, has tried death penalty cases, Eleanor Odom. Also joining me tonight out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, defense attorney, former prosecutor, Peter Odom.
Well, I can tell both of you lawyers this. If the man that killed, that murdered my fiance just before our wedding had sent me flowers, all I can think of is that I would have picked up that vase and smashed it on the floor since I couldn`t get my fingers around his neck.
Now, Eleanor, true, this does not show guilt. But what does it show? Obviously, the jury is as fixated on it as I am. It goes into her thinking, Eleanor.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Her extreme disregard for human life, Nancy, and that`s how I`d argue. You see it over and over again with her testimony and her actions.
GRACE: What about it, Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she`s already acknowledged that this was a point in time she was trying to deceive people into thinking she had nothing to do with it, so it sort of goes hand in hand with her story, but it shows that she was a deceptive person.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Ryan Burns testified that he met you at a PPL event in April 2008, and you had blond hair. How is that possible if you dyed it in March 2008?"
ARIAS: Well, the reason that is the case is because I didn`t meet Ryan at convention in April 2008 because convention is not in April. It`s in March. So he got the month wrong, is all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Did Travis`s closet doors have locks on them?"
ARIAS: I don`t remember them having any locks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If no, how did you have time to get the gun down if he was right behind you?"
ARIAS: I don`t know if he was right behind me or not. I just had the sense that he was chasing after me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We have learned that there are over 100 jury questions, so do not fret that the state did not get a chance to cross-examine, re-cross, after the defense`s redirect. We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the very latest in the trial of Jodi Arias, on trial for the slashing, stabbing, and shooting death of her then lover, Travis Alexander. She claims self-defense.
With me right now straight out of the courtroom, Jean Casarez. Jean, what were some of the other questions in addition to the doozies we`ve already brought up, that were very, very critical questions that this jury thought to ask?
CASAREZ: You know, they`re really asking her about the blackout in the bathroom on June 4, 2008. Why could you remember so many things but you don`t remember this? And she really goes into detail that it was the most traumatic, terrifying point of time for her in her life. And it`s like she just froze, and that she couldn`t remember anything afterwards.
I think a lot of today, Nancy, is actually helping her at this point. There`s going to be cross-examination by the prosecutor, remember that, but she is allowed to just talk and talk, and she talks about the gas cans, and, you know what, she gives at that point today a plausible explanation. She says she originally was going to fill up the gas cans in Nevada and Utah to save money, but once she hit Pasadena realized she wasn`t going to meet with Darryl`s sister to take baby photos, wasn`t going to go to San Diego to visit John Dixon (ph), I guess, realized she was going to go out in the desert at night by herself, decided she better fill up those cans in Pasadena.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Jean Casarez, I really appreciate that. But here is the real deal. When you don`t have enough money to buy gas for your car, you do not go rent a car, which is an additional $30 to $80 to $150 a day, depending on the location, as opposed to the car you already have. And, you don`t go in for a deluxe mani/pedi if you can`t afford to put gas in your car. Now that`s just my take on the world.
Matt Zarrell, weigh in. I want to hear your opinion on the questions asked toward the end of the day.
ZARRELL: Well, one of the biggest ones, Nancy, that was at the very end of the day, challenges her memory gaps. Arias, remember, says she has memory problems when someone is yelling at her, grilling her. Remember that happened with the prosecutor, when she complained about that. So the jury asked, you claim memory lapses during times of stress, such as being yelled at, how do you have such specific memories of being yelled at by Travis in the past? If you always had memory losses when Travis yelled at you, how come you remember so many specifics?
GRACE: And what did she say?
ZARRELL: She said, well, I know I broke my finger, I know choked me, I know he was yelling at me because it`s loud volume. But again, she doesn`t really explain that the memory loss only happened in this attack. It didn`t happen really any other time.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Gail in Nevada. Hi, Gail. What`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I`d like to know how long did Jodi hang out at Travis` house after she killed him?
GRACE: What about that, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. She had quite a lot of cleaning up to do, did she not?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: She did. And of course she can`t remember how long she was there. But if you look at the time, the murder happened about 5:30 in the evening, it`s the middle of summer, it`s still light out. Then she says when she was on the road driving again where she started ditching the evidence, the gun, the knife, the rope, her bloody clothes, that it was nighttime and it was dark, so that could have been three or four hours. And she did get to the guy`s house the next day, but she wasn`t incredibly late for that. So it was just a few hours. Of course Jodi can`t remember any of that or how long it was.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me Eleanor Odom, death penalty prosecutor, also from the Atlanta jurisdiction, defense attorney Peter Odom.
Now, to both of you, we all know that the state cannot comment in its opening, its closing, or in its questioning on the defendant`s right to remain silent. Now in this case Jodi Arias of course did not exercise her Fifth Amendment right. However, the state can comment and can question -- I haven`t even finished my question, why are you shaking your head no, Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Because -- I was shaking my head because, boy, she sure didn`t remain quiet. She made three different statements about this statement. You have it right when you say she didn`t remain silent.
GRACE: You`re right, and I know you would have done a back flip if your client had done that.
But what I`m working up to is this. The state can comment on nonproduction, the defense`s nonproduction of witnesses or evidence the defense alludes to. For instance, the gun, the knife, the rope that was mysteriously not in any of the photos that she says was tightly tied to the bed.
Eleanor, they could very well ask, all right, you say you threw the gun out in the desert, that you put other evidence into a dumpster. Have you tried to go find it? You`re the only one that can find the gun, Jodi Arias. Have you or your lawyers gone out into the desert or sent an investigator out there to try to find the gun? And if you threw it out the window, it can`t be very far off the road. I would challenge them on their nonproduction of evidence.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly. And you can bring it up in open and closing argument as well. That`s an excellent point, Nancy. She didn`t know -- she is the only who knows and she sent nobody out there -- she has told nobody, we`re just now hearing about this evidence that`s in the desert, and I think it`s very astute of this jury that they`re picking up all these little points.
GRACE: What about it, Peter?
P. ODOM: Exactly. She`s made a lot of positive allegations, but there`s no proof of them. It`s one of the difficulties that she has, it`s why her defense is somewhat difficult. I will tell you, though, while she can`t produce a lot of evidence of her claims, the state also can`t disprove them. I think the state is very uncomfortable about that.
GRACE: Well, you`re right. You`re right. Of course you want that murder weapon, of course you want that gun, that rope, that knife. You`re right, Peter Odom. All right, we`re talking about it, but let`s hear from the horse`s mouth. Let`s go in the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: So at that point, he got very angry. And he stepped out of the shower. He lifted me up from the crouched position with enough force that my feet came off the ground momentarily. And he body slammed me on the tile. At that point I rolled and I ran down the hallway. I ran down the hallway. I ran into the closet. I slammed the door. I start running. If you are looking at the diagram, it would be on the left side of the seat. I began running that way with my initial intent to probably run out this door.
I instead ran for the gun, grabbed the gun. Right about then Travis was opening the door. I grabbed it. I ran out into the bathroom. He ran, I believe, straight toward the door as well. At that point, I had run out of the bathroom, and I turned, and I just wanted him to stop, so I pointed the gun at him hoping that that would just make him halt, and it didn`t. Instead he lunged at me right around the time that the gun went off, and I didn`t mean for it to go off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you didn`t want to be tied up to a tree, why would you go up and look for a place where he could do that?
ARIAS: It wasn`t being tied to the tree that I was looking for. We were looking for a place out in the woods, nature, to somehow carry out this Little Red Riding Hood fantasy, and my understanding of that is that it would involve sex, but he had many other ideas, as you heard on the tape. It didn`t necessarily mean that I was going to go for all those. I was kind of pushing my own limits anyway by going out to the woods to find a spot. And that was the purpose, was for that fantasy, but not specifically getting tied to the tree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, this week in the Jodi Arias trial, we all expected a bombshell in the redirect examination of Jodi Arias to try and rehabilitate the scathing cross-examination she underwent last week at the hands of the prosecution. But, instead, it seemed more like a broken record. We got more of the same that we heard on direct, and, as a matter of fact, the defense -- I guess it was planned, but seemingly unwittingly -- brought their client down off the stand for yet another demonstration. And I`m sure the prosecution was very happy about that.
We`ve come this far in the trial, and there has been a lot of damning evidence. This may be the very last chance, redirect examination, for the defense to turn the case around. It`s all on them now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why were the laws of attraction so important to follow, but the law of chastity was not?
ARIAS: I believed that I was following the law of chastity for a long time. I realize now that I was not. The law of attraction was also a huge philosophy of mine. It was my second religion, pretty much. Also, with the law of chastity and what it prohibits, there is a great deal of temptation when I would hang out with Travis, and even though we eventually did begin to, under how I understood it, openly violate the law of chastity, it was kind of like, I don`t know. I guess it`s hard -- it`s hard to describe. I mean, I think it was temptation. It was weakness. It was -- not that I didn`t believe in the law of chastity, but when it came to Travis, I -- that was more important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Now, I`m not a Mormon. I`m just a little old peace loving Methodist, but even I know that, Jodi Arias, you did not follow the laws of chastity. All right? I know that. I can say a lot right now, but I`m not.
We are live here at the Phoenix courthouse and taking your calls. The questions went on, over 156 questions so far by the jury. Joining me right now in addition to Alexis Tereszcuk and Jean Casarez, now with me Beth Karas. Beth Karas, give me your take on what happened in court today.
BETH KARAS, IN SESSION: Nancy, I in a million years couldn`t imagine this many questions that the jurors had. Some of them were repetitive, but they were quite interesting questions, everything from why did you put the camera in the washer to if you knew he had a problem with little children and being attracted to them, why did you keep seeing him? And why didn`t you run out of the house when he lunged at you? Why didn`t you call the police during these acts of domestic violence? You did it with other boyfriends. A lot of good questions.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Susan Constantine, body language expert and jury consultant. Susan, you`ve been watching her as she is fielding these jury questions. I see a change in her demeanor. Do you?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes, I do. And the one question I saw a tremendous change. When you look at the very beginning, as we say our baseline, how she answered in direct, and cross-examination, and now here, at the very beginning she seemed like she was very empowered, she felt very calm about herself. She kind of walked through those questions. She had confidence. But then the questions, where they were really pointed, you would see shifts, changes, she would bite the bottom of her lip or she would lick her lips. She would break her eye gaze, and she would start shifting in her chair, and that`s where what we call a hot spot. Like when you talk about the hot seat, she is definitely in the hot seat now, because the stakes are high and she has got to come up with a plausible answer. And because she couldn`t, created all this anxiety, the shifts, the movements, the changes, which is telling me there`s a lot of deception built into her statements.
GRACE: Susan Constantine, the way you break it down is incredible. I am noticing those movements, but I, just as a lawyer, don`t know what meaning, if any, to attach to them.
Joining me right now, also with us here at the courthouse, Eric Christopher, a friend and former co-worker of Travis Alexander. Eric, thank you for being with us. And what do you make of Jodi Arias on the stand?
ERIC CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I think, honestly, she is being a little bit obtuse. I think she is gaining some confidence, but I don`t think she really wants to go into all the details. I think the devil`s in the details. I think the jury is trying to discover really what the truth is to see if they can find some kind of break in the story. So I think that the challenge she is having is to try to be confident in sharing that.
GRACE: Eric Christopher, a friend of Travis Alexander, I`m very interested in what Travis Alexander told you about Jodi Arias and what happened the last time you saw him.
CHRISTOPHER: Well, we were all having lunch in a Mexican food restaurant after we had a company event, and we were all hanging out together in a small group of people and having an enjoyable time. And, honestly, we were just kind of talking about the Cancun trip coming up, and it was kind of a sensitive subject because he had already kind of made it clear to Jodi that she wasn`t going to be able to go with him on the trip. And so, we didn`t really get a chance to talk about it as much as we would like, because most of the people that were there were going on the trip, and so Jodi was kind of the odd person out, and that was the lunch that where my wife had the conversation with Travis, and she came out and had this conversation. It was kind of emotional, and I asked what was going on. She basically told me that, you know, hey, I`ll talk to you about it on the way home, and that`s where she would share her story.
But honestly, we were really more friends with Travis. I was more friends with Travis, and as a result I kind of called Jodi a nonfactor. I didn`t have a good feeling about her, so I never really went out of my way to be really friendly with her or really engage and really get to know her, because honestly, we were great friends with Travis, and we just accepted Jodi as a part of that.
GRACE: What, if anything, did he tell you about Jodi Arias?
CHRISTOPHER: Again, it was honestly one of those things where he didn`t -- we didn`t really talk about her a whole lot. She was kind of a nonfactor for a long time when we first had met Jodi with Travis, we didn`t even realize that they were actually even together, because, you know, we were at business functions and we didn`t get a chance to discuss all those things in detail. But the times we did have personal conversations outside of it, it was just, hey, how are things with Jodi? And he`s like, hey, things are great. And then it was just kind of a nonfactor. It was just one of those things where he didn`t really discuss it with me a whole lot, because I, again, think it just wasn`t anything worthwhile talking about.
GRACE: We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of Jodi Arias. Her defense, battered women`s syndrome, self-defense. Joining me right now, Tanya Young-Williams. She is a survivor of legitimate domestic violence. She is the National Domestic Violence Hotline spokeswoman. And I could not be more honored to have anyone, Ms. Young-Williams. Thank you for being with us. Tanya, if I may call you that --
TANYA YOUNG-WILLIAMS, SPOKESWOMAN, NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE: Please.
GRACE: -- what do you make, what impact will this have on legitimate battered women`s syndrome defenses, when people -- now, you know how the Twinkie defense or the PMS defense, things people mock. When people hear battered women`s syndrome defenses like Jodi Arias, it makes legitimate victims lose credibility in my thinking.
YOUNG-WILLIAMS: Absolutely, Nancy. I mean, when you have a defendant like Jodi Arias take the stand and for all intents and purposes lie about her experiences with domestic violence, it undermines the work of every advocate, every victim and survivor, everywhere.
But most importantly, battered women`s syndrome is very significant. And it`s very necessary within our judicial system. And when you have this type of case, it has the potential to dilute its significance and make it a bit harder on the woman who actually acted violently because she was a battered woman over a long period of time.
What I found remarkable about Jodi`s testimony on direct and on cross is that it`s not unusual for a victim to keep the abuse a secret. That`s not unusual. It`s not unusual for a victim to go back to the perpetrator. We hear that quite often. But very often in my personal experience and in talking to thousands of victims, they can tell you why they kept it a secret. She could not answer in a clear and concise way why she didn`t tell someone. And the problem with that is that there is a woman on the stand who has a history of domestic violence. If she was able to articulate it in a way that was believable, that woman might have resonated with Jodi Arias. But she never explained why, and more importantly she never said I wanted to cry out. Victims say I wanted to cry out and then they`ll give you a myriad of reasons as to why they did not. She never did those things. And there was a big red wave -- flag waving all in my mind, and I`m sure in the minds of the jurors, as you can see from their questions.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant Chase Stanley, 21. Napa, California. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Parents Debbie and Nyland. Brother Ryan. Sister Brentley (ph). Chase Stanley. American hero.
Welcome back. We are camped out here outside the Phoenix courthouse as a jury questionnaire tops 156 questions, all for Jodi Arias. And they are doozies, let me tell you. To Dr. Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist and author, I`d like for you to weigh in on her demeanor and the way she is answering these questions.
LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY D.: Well, I totally agree with the body language expert that she has shifted from appearing to be very confident in her answers to being very insecure in her answers and almost sort of fumbling to figure out what`s coming up next.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, happy 8th birthday to little crime fighter Nina. Loves softball, her kitty cat Carson, and big brothers Dylan and Drake. We will be here at the courthouse tomorrow night, taking your calls and bringing you the latest. Dr. Drew up next with never- before-seen video of Jodi Arias. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.