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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Sonia Sotomayor Speaks Out; Jodi Arias Trial Continues
Aired March 07, 2013 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, the jury has got more tough questions for Jodi Arias. And by the sound of them, it's not looking good for the defense. The latest from inside the courtroom. As always, Nancy Grace, Mark Geragos, and Jeff Toobin break it down for us and mix it up.
Also, my exclusive journey with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor. She went back to the grade school that helped make her what she is today and that nurtured so many other poor but promising kids, but now is being closed down. We will talk to her about that, but we begin tonight with breaking news.
Some solace, however small, for the family of Dianna Hanson. A short time ago, the Fresno County coroner said the 24-year-old woman died quickly after she was attacked by a 350-pound lion and that she didn't suffer. She died of a broken neck and other neck injuries, the preliminary autopsy shows.
Hanson was an intern at the wildcat sanctuary where she died. She was working toward a certification that would have classified her for her dream job, working at a zoo one day. Her family says she loved animals, especially big cats. You're going to hear from them in just a moment.
This is the animal that attacked her. It's an African male lion whose name is -- it was called Cous Cous. He was shot, killed yesterday. He lived at the sanctuary his entire life since he was a cub. When he was three months old, he was on the Ellen DeGeneres show. Hanson's father said that Cous Cous was one of his daughter's favorite cats at the sanctuary.
And why Dianna Hanson was inside that enclosure with the animal yesterday is the focus of an investigation now under way.
Ted Rowlands joins me from outside the sanctuary.
I understand you have new information about how she died, Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, and why she was in that enclosure. We're getting this from Dr. David Hadden, the coroner here in Fresno County.
He said according to investigators, the victim here, Dianna Hanson, was in the main enclosure. And it's separated, all of these lion enclosures are separated into large enclosures and then smaller pens. According to the coroner, he said investigators say she was in the main enclosure cleaning, thinking that both lions were tucked away safely in their pens and that somehow, Cous Cous, the male lion, was able to apparently use his paw to open up the gates of the pen because it was either unlatched or was he was able to open it, and that is why he got out, and that is why she was in a position to be attacked.
So it wasn't a situation where she went into an area that was potentially dangerous. What she went into, according to the coroner, was an area she thought was absolutely safe. She was cleaning this cage, he says, according to investigators, and this lion was able to escape somehow from his smaller enclosure.
COOPER: So horrific, Ted. You were given access to the lion enclosure where the attack took place. What struck you about it?
ROWLANDS: Well, a few things, Anderson.
First of all, the property here is very expansive and the area between lions and cats here is extensive as well. Cous Cous shared his enclosure with a female lion, a 10-year-old, for the last three years, by the name of Pele. She was there during the attack, presumably in her den while the attack was happening in the larger enclosure. She was there today, and she was making like almost a barking noise, and according to the handlers up here, this was a noise she does not normally make and was making it because of the stress that she felt of yesterday and not having her friend, I guess, for lack of a better term, Cous Cous no longer there.
COOPER: Wow. Ted, I appreciate the update on that. That's new information about her death.
Dianna Hanson's lifelong dream, as we said, was destroyed by the very creature she was devoted to protecting. Her family says it had been her goal since she was a child to work with big cats. Her internship at the Cat Haven Sanctuary was a step toward realizing her dream.
Paul Hanson and Paul Hanson Jr., Dianna's father and brother, join me now.
First of all, Paul, my condolences to you and your family. I can't imagine what the last 24 hours have been like for you. How are you holding up?
PAUL HANSON SR., FATHER OF VICTIM: Well, I think that I'm still in shock right now. But I think it's good. Going to the media and telling Dianna's story has really helped me.
COOPER: Paul, tell me what you want people to know about your daughter.
PAUL HANSON SR.: What I want to know about her?
First off, I just got a report from the coroner's office that the mauling reports in the media yesterday and earlier today were not true. There was no mauling by the lion. It was more likely a quick suffocation and neck fracture. There was no blood, and they think it was a quick death, followed by just some injuries of a lion that was probably just playing too hard.
And also, she was so happy. Her last two months there as an internship at Cat Haven were the happiest of her life. Her mother and I agree that we have never seen her happier than the two months she has been there since January 2, when we got there.
COOPER: Paul, I heard since she was 7 years old, that she loved big cats.
PAUL HANSON SR.: Yes, about 7 years old, she just developed a fixation on tigers, especially tigers, and big cats in general. She used to tell everybody she was going to grow up and study Siberian snow tigers in Siberia.
And then when she got older, in elementary school, every time we would go and see -- her mother and I would go and see the parent/teacher conference, they would say, you know, she's a great artist. She's got some talent there, but she just draws the same subject over and over again, tigers.
Then when she went to college, she was a ski instructor for her part-time job on the weekends up at Western Washington University in Bellingham. And one day, she had a little boy sitting next to her in her ski lift chair when the ski lift was temporarily stopped, so she made conversation with him and asked his favorite animal, and he says, tigers, like my grandparents have.
And she knew his grandparents were right there in Bellingham, so she tracked them down and wondered how they could have tigers. And turns out they have three tigers and a lion just outside of city limits, and she volunteered to help work and take care of them. They were so impressed with her, they trained her and they would leave her there for weeks with these animals. And she would go into the cages and take care of them and feed them and maintain them. She would go inside the cages and she would invite us to come up and see them.
And then we would see her and then she would go in the cages. That always got me, her in the cage. That always scared me. I always had a bad premonition that some day those animals could turn on her, but she was absolutely fearless. She was no more afraid of those lions and tigers than she was of the house cat, just totally fearless and totally competent working with them in their cages.
COOPER: Paul, what do you think it was about these big cats that she loved from such a young age?
PAUL HANSON JR., BROTHER OF VICTIM: I think there was just this sense of awe and a sense of absolute power and beauty and mystery that are associated with them, and how her passion for that continued to evolve as she got older and really dedicated herself, you know, her passion for these animals, then transcending into work that could be done to save them and make sure we can still have wildlife in wild areas. COOPER: Paul, I understand you said that your daughter told you she wasn't allowed in the lion cage. Have you been given any information as to what happened yesterday or why she was in there yesterday?
PAUL HANSON SR.: No, not yet.
I just know that she gave me a tour of the place on January 3 when I -- after we drove down from Seattle. She and I drove down together. That was the last time I saw her. And she gave me a tour of the place before I flew back to Seattle.
And when -- she gave me the guided tour path that you take when you go through all of the animal cages and enclosures there. When we go by the lion and tiger cage, she says these are the only cages we're not allowed to go in, the lion cage and the tiger cage. And she was a little disappointed, because she had done that for so long in Bellingham.
Then she -- she said only the owner is allowed to go in these cages. I was so shocked when I heard she was killed by the lion inside the lion cage because I couldn't figure out why she would be in there.
COOPER: Paul Ryan, did he ever talk about this lion in particular, Cous Cous?
PAUL HANSON JR.: Yes, she -- she just absolutely adored Cous Cous and all the animals that were there. You know, it was a lion that had been with the facility that they have had for many years, had even taken it on TV. So she spoke very highly of that lion.
COOPER: Paul, does this change the way you view these animals?
PAUL HANSON SR.: No, not at all.
In fact, it makes me view them with more love and interest than ever before because I will always think of her now whenever I see a lion or a tiger or a big cat, because these were the loves of her life. And I will think of her every single time now when I see one of those and how much she would enjoy being there and working with them. No, it doesn't change anything.
COOPER: Listen, I appreciate both of you taking the time to let everybody get to know her better and get to know her passions and what she loved a loved and died doing what she loved.
Paul, thank you, and Paul Ryan, I wish you peace and strength in the days ahead.
PAUL HANSON SR.: Thank you.
PAUL HANSON JR.: Thank you.
PAUL HANSON SR.: Thanks for letting us tell her story to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, fatal attacks like, they aren't common. They do happen, though. Twenty people, including five children, have been killed by big cats in the United States in the past 21 years, according to one group that tracks the numbers.
Jack Hanna, director emeritus at the Columbus Zoo, joins me now.
Jack, so heard Ted Rowlands' report. This animal Cous Cous got into an area that was supposed to be secure. I just want to show our viewers the large enclosure where Dianna was and the smaller one where Cous Cous was. What do you make of this? Could have the lion actually have opened the gate to get to her?
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO: Well, Anderson, they're very powerful animals.
If the lock had been left off or a chain off it, he could have just pushed the latch up and got in there obviously. But watching that, Anderson, it just brings back so many memories. It really is hard for me to watch that because I think I have told you before that we had a little 3-year-old boy back in 1972 that got -- one of my lions took his arm off, and it was beyond horrific picking it up and taking it there and not being put back on the boy at the shoulder.
The point is -- and I appreciate what the father is saying. But I can't even describe what I feel right now. It has been that way for the last 48 hours, obviously. But, again, Anderson, I understand what he's saying, the love and what his daughter did, but the word fearless, Anderson, is a word that is very difficult for me to use because I have filmed these animals in the wild, a lion taking down a 2,000-pound Cape buffalo in less than five seconds.
You have seen this yourself. You go to Africa quite a bit, and it's like, bam. And the word that I think -- I wish I had known this young girl. She seems incredible. I would have loved to have had her at the Columbus Zoo, as a matter of fact, but the word respect is the word we all have to use. You have to respect they're wild animals.
The word fearless as a word is pretty difficult to use in our zoological world, because if you're fearless of something, there's no fear there, but the respect you have to have for the animal, you can call that fear, call it what you want to, but that's what I wish had happened.
Of course, this was an accident. She couldn't have that. Obviously, she was in there. I don't know what happened, but obviously now that I know it was an accident, I can at least understand now what happened.
COOPER: Because even an animal that has been raised by humans from the time it was a cub, as this animal was, and went on the Ellen DeGeneres show when it was a cub, they're hardwired. This is a lion, this is what they do. They're hardwired to react.
HANNA: Right. I have had young lions on shows. We still work with our cheetah, by the way. We continue to work with our cheetah. A cheetah is a different type of cat. We have two people on the animal. At the Columbus Zoo, just our example, the American Zoo and Aquarium Association, there's a certain code we have to live by.
This is, by the way, a good sanctuary from what I heard from a lot of people. But again once an animal is six to eight months old, a tiger or lion, no anyone enters the facility, not one, not two, not 50 people. If the animal has to be looked at, then the veterinarian will tranquilize it, look at it, give its physical and that type of thing.
They're fed through different chutes and that type of thing. As of new standards in our zoological park, we don't go in there. That's been that way at the Columbus Zoo with large cats. Some of the sanctuaries do go in, like this gentleman, and teach people about the animal.
But you see what happened when this little 3-year-old boy that was my friend put his arm through. I wasn't even there, by the way. How they got across, I don't know. It's none of my business. It happened. It was my fault, obviously, but the lion was so powerful, it pulled the arm off the shoulder without even an indentation in the skin of the little boy.
This is the power these animals have. And it's a tragic thing that happened here. And I just can't describe what my feelings are for the people of the sanctuary and these parents. I understand what the man says. Every time from now when I see a lion or tiger, I am going to think of this young lady probably the rest of my life as well.
COOPER: Yes. It gives Paul, her father, some comfort that she wasn't in pain, that the coroner said that the death was quick. She died of a broken neck and other neck injuries.
I guess that sort of surprised me. I would have thought there would have been -- I didn't realize that that's how lions attack.
HANNA: Yes, that's the basic way they do it in the wild. That's what they -- they will start at the rear, the back end, they chase, that kind of chase, but the first thing they catch, will do, especially tigers and lions, that's the name of the game, is the neck, because that's what happens.
But at least I know now what happened. Like I said before, not knowing what happened, she had such a love for them and such a passion for big cats, maybe she thought she could go in there. Now that I know it's an accident, accidents happen. They will happen maybe again in a zoological park some day. That's what we deal with. Tens of millions of people go there.
But, Anderson, as you know, the African lion since 1978, we lost 60 percent of them from Africa. They were like rabbits when I first went there. I'm sure you have seen that. Today, we have lost 60 percent of the lions. The zoological world is not going to stop breeding lions. We're going to have them for people to understand them, love them, and hopefully save them.
COOPER: Well, Jack Hanna, I appreciate you being on. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. But thanks for being with us.
Let me know what you think of all this. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper.
Coming up next, my exclusive interview with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor. I met with her today in her old neighborhood at the grade school that she says gave her a great start in life, but won't be around for the next generation of kids like her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SONIA SOTOMAYOR, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE, U.S. SUPREME COURT: It was heartbreaking. I can't even tell you.
It's like closing not just a chapter in my life, but slamming a door on an entire history, not just my history, but the countless students who have gone through these halls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We will tell you why the school is closing and what she hopes to do about it.
Later, was this a happy couple, or was Jodi Arias, as she claims, a virtual captive held by an abusive boyfriend? Jurors asking tough questions, new questions today in her trial, casting doubt on her version of the relationship that ended with him dead and her on trial for her life -- some stunning new details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Crucial step today in the selection of a new pope to succeed Benedict XVI.
The last cardinal electors arriving today in Rome. All 115 now in place ready to go. They will be casting ballots soon behind closed doors but have yet to set a date for the process, the papal conclave to begin.
Back home in the United States in local parishes, there is anger over the shutting down of parochial schools here in the United States. In New York alone, the New York Archdiocese, for example, they're shutting down two dozen schools, including the Blessed Sacrament School in the Bronx.
In its time, which is now running out, that one school changed a lot of lives, including the life of one little neighborhood girl who grew up to be a Supreme Court justice, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who went back with me today. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
Blessed Sacrament, Sonia Sotomayor, who went back there with me today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor came back to Blessed Sacrament School in the Bronx because she wanted to highlight the importance of Catholic schools in her life and the life of kids growing up as she did.
(on camera): Would you have been able to become the person you are, in the position you are without this school?
SOTOMAYOR: Doubtful.
Would I and my brother and I have been able to resist the war of drugs in the surrounding schools? Who knows.
COOPER (voice-over): Like many of the kids here now, Sotomayor grew up poor, Puerto Rican, from the projects. She's now the highest ranking Latina in the nation.
(on camera): Your mom worked hard to send you here?
SOTOMAYOR: My mom worked six days a week most of her adult life to be able to afford to come here. And if it hadn't been for the generosity of the church, we would not have been able to afford this.
But I think, back then, they would have never thought of kicking either my brother or I out.
This is the worst.
COOPER (voice-over): But times have changed for the church, and Blessed Sacrament is closing, one of 24 New York parochial schools to be shut this year, despite parishioners and parents' fight to save them.
(on camera): The church says, look, we just don't have the money to keep these schools going.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I find it somewhat ironic from a church that has so much money, frankly. I look at the pope flying away in a helicopter to his seaside, you know, castle.
I think one of the core missions of the church is to help the poor, to assist the needy. And to walk away from these kids and others, they have put money ahead of educating our children, which I think is a fundamental core tenet of the church.
SOTOMAYOR: I loved my years here.
COOPER (voice-over): As a Supreme Court justice, Sotomayor won't go as far as some outraged parishioners, but she's sad to see this school shut its doors.
(on camera): Is your being here, is it a protest in any way, or is it a statement?
SOTOMAYOR: No. I can't protest anymore, don't you know that? COOPER: Yes, I do.
(LAUGHTER)
SOTOMAYOR: No.
But it's a return to a place of importance to me and a moment to share with kids who I know are suffering.
COOPER (voice-over): In a classroom of kids, the suffering was clear. Amidst their tears, Sotomayor urged the kids to speak up, even as she defended the church's good intentions.
SOTOMAYOR: You know something, sweetie? I'm so glad that all of you took part in trying to save your school, because you can't really sit back and let people do things to you. You have to get up and tell people what's important.
COOPER: The children and their parents did protest. They posted YouTube videos and raised money. Sotomayor herself was a donor, but it wasn't enough.
STUDENT: Why haven't people looked at the videos that we...
SOTOMAYOR: Because, sometimes, they don't know about them.
STUDENT: So, they just think that it's just a bunch of kids who are trying to save a regular school?
SOTOMAYOR: I think they think that it's -- will be easy for you to get over. They don't understand that it's going to hurt you for a long, long time.
COOPER: School officials say they do understand the hurt, but have no other choice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were not schools that were failing, not when you looked at test scores, graduate rates, attendance. They were safe harbor for children and the families were very happy. It was an economic decision.
COOPER: Sotomayor still hopes this school will be saved, but she knows that's unlikely. Nationwide, 2,000 Catholic schools have closed in the past dozen years.
SOTOMAYOR: It's a breeding ground for leaders. What's going to happen to that feeder system? That's what I'm most worried about. Catholic schools traditionally have been the pathway out of poverty for generations of kids.
COOPER (on camera): And you're worried, with all these closures, that can change?
SOTOMAYOR: Oh, I know it can change. Don't worry it might change. It will change.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Sotomayor says she hopes to go back to the school at least one more time before it finally shuts its doors for good.
As always, for more on this and other stories, you can go to our Web site, CNN.com, for more.
Just ahead for us tonight, Rand Paul's epic filibuster over the use of killer drones against Americans. We will tell you how the talkathon ended and what the White House said to answer Senator Paul's life-or-death question.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back.
In "Raw Politics" tonight, the Senate has confirmed John Brennan as the new director of the CIA. The vote wasn't even close, 63-34, but the drama leading up to it, that was pretty epic. In case you missed it, Senator Rand Paul led a nearly 13-hour filibuster on the Senate floor, holding the vote hostage until he got an answer to his questions about drone attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I cannot sit at my desk quietly and let the president say that he will kill Americans on American soil who are not actively attacking a country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Senator Paul wanted to know if President Obama had the authority to carry out targeted killings on Americans on U.S. soil.
Earlier this week, Attorney General Eric Holder didn't entirely rule out the possibility of that kind of attack. In a letter today, he clarified his response.
CNN's Dana Bash was the first to get Senator Paul's reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senator, it is literally three sentences long. And he says that the answer to your question about can Americans be killed on U.S. soil, and the answer is no. Are you satisfied?
PAUL: I'm quite happy with the answer and I'm disappointed it took a month-and-a-half and a root canal to get it, but we did get the answer. And that's what I have been asking all along.
And it really is what the Senate should be about.
BASH: So, just to be clear, you are announcing right here on CNN that you are going to let John Brennan's nomination now go through; maybe they could even hold a vote today?
PAUL: Yes. We will hold it as soon as people want to now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Senate voted hours ago to confirm Brennan.
Chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins me now.
Dana, it's interesting. Today, there are Senate Democrats who are happy with Senator Paul and quite a few Republican colleagues who aren't.
BASH: Absolutely.
This really does expose a divide within the Republican Party when it comes to the so-called war on terror. And the divide does seem to be getting a bit deeper, and Senator Paul, the fact he was out there and he got support from some more, I would say, hawkish or mainstream Republicans did infuriate people like John McCain and Lindsey Graham, who came out and said, excuse me, why are we making this big deal questioning that we actually think that the president is doing right, which is using drones to get terror suspects?
But it really does also show that there are some Republicans who are up for reelection next year who are very concerned about getting on the wrong side of people in the conservative base, and many of those are civil libertarians. This also exposes how tricky Republican Party politics are right now.
COOPER: It's also interesting because you don't see too many of these old-fashioned filibusters where people stand for a long time and talk. And part of the reason is got to be that it just -- it's not easy. I want to play some of what Senator Paul has to say this morning about how he felt there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Voice is recovering, and I think I lost a few pounds, so there's some advantages to not eating all day, though I was sneaking candy bars from the -- there's a candy drawer. And if you go to the candy drawer, you can sneak around and get a candy bar.
But I see that you all caught me with half the candy bar in and half out of my mouth. My wife said, can't you chew with your mouth closed when you're on the floor?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Overall, I mean, what did he think of the experience? He seems kind of been energized by it.
BASH: Oh, he's definitely energized by it.
And he was actually -- I talked to him before he even realized, Anderson, that this had really blown up on Twitter the way it had, because he was so focused on what he was doing on the Senate floor. And then he went to bed at 2:00 in the morning. He didn't really get caught up on it.
He talked about the fact that, as he said on the floor, one of the reasons why he didn't keep going, he stopped after midnight, was because nature called. You know, he had that glass of water there, which was basically his only sustenance, but he was trying not to drink it, because then he would have to leave the floor. His filibuster would be over.
But he also said that he was so surprised, himself, that he actually got the time on the Senate floor to wage this filibuster that he wore the wrong shoes. I mean, things that, I guess, you need to think about when you're a senator going to stand -- stand around on a marble floor for 12 hours.
So it really does remind you that -- that this is something that is old-fashioned, but it's -- it's something that takes a lot of endurance.
COOPER: Yes. Sure does. Dana Bash, appreciate it. Thanks.
BASH: Thank you.
COOPER: Jurors questioning a killer. Jodi Arias, back on the stand yet again, facing tough questions from the people who will decide her fate, the jurors themselves. We'll take you inside the courtroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. Jodi Arias facing especially tough jury questions today. Nancy Grace, Mark Geragos and Jeff Toobin weigh in on today's developments ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" now. A blockbuster day of juror questions in the Jodi Arias trial, and possible signs that the jury is simply just not buying her story. Her third version of events, by the way, that she killed her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in self-defense. Killed him, you'll remember, just two minutes after photographing him right here, taking that picture in the shower. Alexander appeared relaxed, not looking like the rage-filled monster Arias said she had no choice but to kill.
As you'll hear in a moment, our legal panel agrees on this. Any sympathy the jurors might have had for the defendant seems all but gone. As 360's Randi Kaye reports, you could hear it in their questions today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If she hadn't been caught in a web of lies, would Jodi Arias ever have come clean about killing Travis Alexander? Jurors wanted to know. JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER TRIAL: "Would you decide to tell the truth if you never got arrested?"
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: I honestly don't know the answer to that question.
KAYE: Why, they ask, did it take her so long to tell the truth? It wasn't until two years after the killing that she claimed self- defense. First, she said she wasn't there. Then changed her story to two masked intruders. All her lying seems to have hit a nerve with the jury.
STEPHENS: "After all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?"
ARIAS: Lying isn't typically something I just do. But the lies that I've told in this case are -- can be tied directly back to either protecting Travis's reputation.
KAYE: And what about Arias' experience with guns?
ARIAS: Never fired a gun, but I was relatively familiar with them.
KAYE: And even if she wasn't sure she'd shot Alexander, as she says, why not call 911 for help, in case?
ARIAS: When I sort of came out of the fog, I realized, "Oh, crap. Something bad had happened." And I was scared to call any authority at that point.
KAYE (on camera): Right after she killed Alexander, Arias drove to Utah to visit another guy. The jury wanted to know how she could kiss another man just hours after shooting and stabbing her ex- boyfriend to death. She explained she had no choice. She had to show up to avoid suspicion.
(voice-over): And like every other day in court, the testimony eventually turned to the couple's sex life. The jury has listened to recordings of their phone sex, read their dirty text messages, even looked at naked pictures they took the day of the killing, but they wanted to know more.
If he had abused Arias in the past, as she claims, why did she go along with Alexander's sexual fantasies?
STEPHENS: "If you were scared of what Travis was capable of doing, why would you ever let him tie you up?"
ARIAS: When that occurred, he was in a very good mood, and again, they were -- they were loose enough to wiggle out of. So I wasn't, like, stuck there.
KAYE: And on the day she killed him...
STEPHENS: "Was Travis tied up at any point on June 4, 2008?" ARIAS: No.
KAYE: There were also more questions about Arias's memory lapses.
STEPHENS: "You remember dropping the knife and screaming, but you don't remember taking the gun or rope with you?"
ARIAS: It goes blank after that. I don't remember putting the gun in the car. I don't remember putting the rope in the car.
STEPHENS: "How can you say that you don't have memory issues when you can't remember how you stabbed him so many times and slashed his throat?"
ARIAS: Well, I think that I have a good memory. And June 4 is an anomaly for me. I don't think I have memory issues that are any different from another average person.
KAYE: One thing Arias may never forget are these pictures of Travis Alexander dead.
STEPHENS: "Would you agree that you came away from the June 4 incident rather unscathed while Travis suffered a gunshot and multiple stab wounds? You only had a bump on your head or bruise on your head, cuts or scrapes on your ankles and a possible shoulder injury."
ARIAS: As far as making comparison of physical injuries, him versus mine, yes, I would have to say that's a relatively accurate assessment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Randi joins us now.
After the jury questions, her defense lawyer had more questions for her. Some focused on another woman in Travis Alexander's life. What did we learn about that?
KAYE: Anderson, Arias's lawyer asked about this woman that Alexander was planning to take to Cancun on vacation, and she testified that Alexander showed her a picture of this woman and actually told her that God was sending him a message, that God wanted this woman to be his future wife.
Arias now also pointed out that she and Alexander at the time were still having sex and that Alexander was trying to get her into a threesome at that same time.
But what is key here is that Arias testified she wasn't jealous of this woman at all. She said that she didn't even want to be Mrs. Travis Alexander anymore.
But remember here, it speaks to motive, because the prosecutor has painted her as a jealous stalker who killed Alexander, because he wasn't taking her to Cancun. He was taking this other woman. COOPER: Yes. Randi, thanks very much.
Joining us again tonight, our legal panel: Nancy Grace from our sister network, HLN; senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin; and criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, co-author of the upcoming book, "Mistrial: An Inside Look at How the Criminal Justice System Works and Sometimes Doesn't."
Nancy, last night, you said that you thought the questions were largely not in Jodi Arias's favor. How do you feel today?
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Well, I feel that the tide is really turning, Anderson, against Jodi Arias because one of their big questions -- and I wrote it down for you, Anderson, verbatim. It says, "After all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?" And I think that is an incredible question, an incredible insight that you rarely get with a jury.
I mean, when I practiced law for all those years, I had one particular judge that would allow the jury to ask questions. Generally, you don't know what they're thinking, but that is a bombshell question, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Mark, what did you think of today?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I just think it's devolved into kind of a circus of the absurd. I think that -- I understand that that's -- from a defense standpoint, those are never good questions, but at the same time, there's 250. You don't know exactly, is that one person who's written 100 or is that -- is that the whole thing?
Remember, this -- when Nancy says the tide is turning, it wasn't exactly like this was a slam dunk for the defense to start off with. This is somebody who is self-admitted, "I've done nothing but lie. I stabbed him 27 times and then put a gun to his head." So it was an uphill battle to begin with.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And what I don't understand is what the defense is trying to do, because now we're in re-cross. And he's asking her questions that are sort of like lower-level Oprah, you know, like Ricki Lake-level questions. It's like, "Well, were you in love?" Or "Was it unconditional love? And what about your relationship with this guy?"
GRACE: I take issue with that.
TOOBIN: What's the point? I mean, why does that help the defense in any way?
GRACE: The point is credibility. And while you're all sitting around tables with your Ph.D.'s, these are regular working people, and it matters to them if she's lied to every man she's been with. If she left him rotting...
GERAGOS: Did you get a Ph.D.? GRACE: ... literally rotting in the damn shower and jumped on top of another man within 24 hours. It may not mean anything to you two with your J.D.'s, but...
TOOBIN: J.D. Yes.
GERAGOS: J.D.'s. That's appropriate.
TOOBIN: But why does that help the defense?
GRACE: Then I happen to have an additional degree that maybe you don't have.
GERAGOS: I don't know if you heard Jeff. He was asking why the defense was doing it?
GRACE: I did hear him.
GERAGOS: OK. Because then...
GRACE: I did hear him.
GERAGOS: Then your question becomes completely inexplicable.
GRACE: Yes, I hear it. No, what I mean is the defense is trying their best to clear up these questions from the jury. And his questions, the defense's question -- and just for your information, the prosecution has commenced. It's not the defense anymore, Mark, but their questions are trying to clarify what the jury has asked.
GERAGOS: I know that it's the prosecution. I know that he's trying to clarify. At a certain point...
GRACE: Because I told you.
GERAGOS: ... sit down -- sit down, enough is enough.
COOPER: And do -- what do you think? More than 200 questions. Do you feel like -- I mean, the sheer number of questions is kind of staggering.
GERAGOS: Yes, it is staggering. And that's one of the things I think just shows the absurdity of letting this become an interactive Facebook or tweeting kind of a trial. That's what it's become.
TOOBIN: I draw exactly the opposite conclusion, which is this shows this jury is paying attention. They are asking relevant questions. They are exploring the key issues in the case, and I think that's what we want in jurors. People focusing on the important parts of the case.
GERAGOS: When does this become the -- in the coliseum with the thumbs up or the thumbs down? You know, at a certain point, you just let the 12 impartial fact finders start to try this case with hundreds of questions? Look, if you're the defense lawyer, you love it. If you're the prosecution, you love it. If you're somebody who's looking at the criminal justice system, doesn't this give you some sort of pause that this becomes kind of an interactive, Internet feeding -- feeding frenzy?
GRACE: You mean, in other words, you don't want a genuine and legitimate search for the truth?
GERAGOS: Nancy, no. That is not...
GRACE: It is irritating you that the jury is asking these questions. As I was trying to say, I agree with Toobin on this. Because even though the questions may not make sense to us four -- sometimes we may wonder, why are they asking that? They have their reasons. They are the ultimate fact finder, not Mark Geragos.
COOPER: They keep asking about her memory. And clearly, they want to know more about what she actually remembers, because you know, they came up with these questions about, "Well, you say you have a fine memory most of the time, but surrounding this event, there's this fog."
GRACE: You're right, Anderson...
COOPER: I just want -- I just want to...
GRACE: Right. And I'll give you a good example.
COOPER: Let me just play two of those questions regarding her memory and get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHENS: "How is it possible you remember such details from those days if you had a foggy memory?"
ARIAS: The fog or the confusion only begins when he starts screaming or if there's a fear that maybe there's going to be tension or some kind of escalation or anger or violence. And then certain incidents such as the physical pain is crystallized in my mind. So that sticks.
STEPHENS: "Is there anyone else who knows about your memory issues?"
ARIAS: Um, well, I mean, again, I think I have a really excellent memory. Just the issue...
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Objection. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
STEPHENS: Answer the question as stated.
ARIAS: OK. It's hard because I don't think I have memory issues.
STEPHENS: All right, then that's your answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Nancy, what do you make of that? She says she has no memory, she has no memory of stabbing this man.
GRACE: Anderson, remember: her defense is she dropped a digital camera as she was taking sexy photos of him in the shower. He became enraged and wanted to kill her. That's her story.
As she took off running with him on her heels, she says she went into his closet, climbed on top of something, reached back and found a .25-caliber weapon that nobody else knew about. She says also that he had a holster for it, but when police searched, they found no ammunition, no weapon, no holster, nothing.
I mean, her story doesn't hold together. And they're testing her memory on that. And suddenly, she can't recall any of the critical facts around the time of the murder.
GERAGOS: The only problem with that is, is that they're going to explain all of that when they call -- the defense calls the next witness. They're going to have somebody, just like prosecutors do all the time, who's going to come up there and say that this is standard operating procedure with a battered woman. That memory -- their memory can be great, book-ended around the incident itself, and that they go into some sort of trauma.
That is how they're going to explain it. That is what the jury is going to be told.
TOOBIN: Well, one reason we have a jury system...
GRACE: You're right.
TOOBIN: The jury system can apply common sense. And if you have a memory problem that is purely convenient, that you don't remember stuff that's bad for you but you remember stuff that's good for you legally...
COOPER: And you never told anybody about your memory problem.
TOOBIN: Yes, I mean, I just -- you can call all the experts you want.
GERAGOS: The expert will get up there. I've had -- I've had more than a couple of trials where the expert will get up, and I've had it where the prosecution will call because there's been cross- examination on somebody, why do you remember this now? Why didn't you tell anybody?
And they're going to say, that is perfectly logical and rational for a psychiatric standpoint if you're suffering from battered woman's syndrome.
COOPER: We'll leave it there. Nancy Grace, Mark Geragos, Jeff Toobin, thank you all. Quite a conversation.
Coming up, "The RidicuList." Find out who's on it tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Time now for "The RidicuList." And tonight, we have yet another laughing news anchor story. We really cannot get enough of these.
So in Oklahoma, a woman was arrested on drug charges. And while she was searched during booking, it turns out she was carrying a gun and bags of meth on her person; really more like inside her person. We're going to let WGN in Chicago take the story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a five-shot revolver. It was loaded. And as she turned it around, she saw more plastic baggies, larger plastic baggies wedged in the crack of her buttocks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The old caboose pistol. Everybody has one. What are you getting all worked up over?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you just say -- did you just say caboose pistol?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know someone who could hide a machine gun in there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You take it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big story. Daylight Savings Time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Oh, yes. Also Daylight Savings Time is coming. You've just got to spring forward for the next story. What can you do?
News anchors have to be prepared for anything. Sometimes it's a very concealed weapon. And as we showed you the other night, sometimes it's a cat trying to lose weight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Polly is a 13-year-old cat who just likes the outdoors and other physical activities. But with encouragement from her owner and weekly visits to the pet resort, she's managed to lose one pound in six months.
Stay with us, everybody. We've got a lot more to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And sometimes it's a comedian telling you about the time her dog got stoned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like the time Doug got into a bag of pot brownies.
SARAH SILVERMAN, COMEDIAN: And then the doctor just started laughing and he's like, "Oh, my God, this dog is tripping." And I swear to God, this is what he looked like. And um -- look what happened there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Then there are times when the subject matter -- you know, just roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next time you pass gas, make sure no police are around. A man in West Virginia faces assault charges after police say he passed gas near the officer.
Don't laugh.
He was already arrested for DUI, according to police. I can't even get through this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He passed the gas for a while, and the officer said it was, quote, "very odorous" and created -- and "created contact of an insulting or provoking nature."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Anchor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See, that wasn't even right. To put that story in there was wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It was wrong, yet oh, so right. It's the news business. And let's face it, news happens in all areas of life, even the sensitive ones.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: A man here in New York has turned his hobby into his full-time job. And now he's got fans around the world raising their glasses and toasting his hard work. Here's Tom Foreman with our "American Journey" report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every day amid the hustle and hum of Brooklyn, something is brewing at Steve Hindy's place. It looks like, tastes like, and goes down like beer, but it smells like success.
STEVE HINDY, BEER MAKER: We sell beer now in 25 states, and the name Brooklyn rings bells in Sweden, in Britain, in Italy, in France, in Germany, in Japan, in China.
FOREMAN: Hindy was a long-time foreign correspondent in some of the world's most dangerous places. He quit the news business back in the 1980s and decided to turn his hobby of making beer into a small business. He started in a part of New York where property values were comparatively reasonable. His small team focused on keeping costs low, quality high; helping community charities instead of buying big ads; and crafting distinctive brews that stood out from mass-produced beers.
GARRETT OLIVER, BREWMASTER, BROOKLYN BREWERY: I think the reason why we've been successful is that we've always trusted that people have good taste. Rather than trying to dumb things down or do focus groups and try to figure out what does everybody like?
FOREMAN: The result, even as the recession raged, Hindy's place kept going. Even as per capita beer consumption plummeted, the Brooklyn Brewery kept growing.
HINDY: Well, I think it's just the fundamental fact that people are drinking less beer, but they're drinking more special beers. And you know, we offer a whole range, a whole rainbow of flavors of beer.
FOREMAN: This year he says they will expand their staff of 90 people, open a new shop in Stockholm, and sell $50 million worth of beer.
HINDY: Our future is very exciting.
FOREMAN: For a former reporter and Brooklyn, that's a headline.
Tom Foreman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That's a headline and a lot of beer. That does it for us. We'll see you tomorrow. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
