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Nancy Grace
More Jury Questions for Jodi Arias
Aired March 07, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: June 4th is an anomaly for me. Most of the day was an entire blank.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "How can you say that you don`t have memory issues when you can`t remember how you stabbed him so many times and slashed his throat?"
ARIAS: I can`t explain why.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Would you agree that you came away rather unscathed?"
ARIAS: In comparison of physical injuries, him versus mine, yes, that`s a relatively accurate assessment.
-- never fired a gun. But I was relatively familiar with them.
I didn`t even realize that I shot him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Did you do anything to the gun, such as cock it, slip off the safety, manipulate a slide, or anything prior to it going off?"
ARIAS: I don`t even think I would know how to do that.
I don`t know. Probably not. He was grabbing on my clothes and grabbing at me. As soon as I broke away and he said, F`ing kill you, bitch, I don`t remember a lot after that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "How do you explain the blood on your hands and clothes and the bloody palm print on the wall?"
ARIAS: Well, based on logic, it would have been because of how we fought. I don`t know how things ended up, where they ended up. I do know that we struggled that day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Would you decide to tell the truth if you never got arrested?"
ARIAS: I honestly don`t know the answer to that question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "After all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
After a scathing cross-exam by the state, the defense then moves to rehabilitate Jodi Arias on redirect. Bombshell tonight. Murder defendant Jodi Arias back on the hotseat again today as she continues to try her very best to field now over 200 questions from the jury.
Well, if you thought the questions from yesterday were doozies, you ain`t seen nothing yet!
Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." We`re all camped out here, outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the very latest. Jean, the questions were downright hostile to Jodi Arias, in my opinion.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Sixty-four questions today, Nancy. Sixty-four more questions. And the ultimate question was, point blank, After all these lies, why should we even believe you now? And the answer was, I`m telling the truth now. I was protecting myself. It came to this point. But if I`m convicted, it`s because of my choices and the lies that I`ve made.
GRACE: My choices and the lies that I`ve made. I also thought it was very interesting, the focus on the gun holster, the questions regarding the gun and the gun holster. Where were they going with that, Jean?
CASAREZ: I think they wanted to find the truth. I think they were trying to catch her maybe in a lie, asking if the gun was in a holder, if there was a safety on, if she had to cock the gun. She said she`d never had formal gun training. She didn`t know how to do all of that. But yet she`d been out camping trips with Darrell Brewer (ph), knew a little bit about guns, but all she knew was to aim and point.
GRACE: You know, out to you, Matt Zarrell. I found it very interesting about the holster, and I`m taking it another step. She told the jury that she believed Travis Alexander had a holster for that .25 caliber weapon. Number one, I don`t think, generally speaking, a man`s going to have a .25 caliber. That`s a whole `nother can of worms.
But she said he had a holster. Now, remember, there was no ammunition found when the police came. There was no holster found. They can`t find anything, any receipts on his credit card records, nothing, not a gun license, nothing to suggest Travis Alexander had a weapon.
So what does this mean, that he had a gun sitting up there cocked full with live ammo? Because that`s the way it would have to be for her story to be true.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy you`re right. In fact, she admits that she didn`t manipulate the gun in any way, she just grabbed it, ran into the bathroom, and turned around and pointed the gun at Travis.
Another focus regarding the gun was she said a lot of times that she didn`t have time to think, that things were going so fast, so -- but she does say that she had time and remembered where the gun was when she ran into the closet. So a lot of the jury questions were, Well, if things were happening so fast, how did you have time to remember that the gun was up there? And how did you reach up and grab the gun, and nothing was disturbed?
GRACE: You know, Matt Zarrell, back to you. I want to talk about what you perceive some of the most critical questions asked today of Jodi Arias. And her demeanor has to really change. She is on the hotseat. These are questions that she could not have rehearsed because the questions are coming in fast and furious. Go ahead, Matt.
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, I actually think that the final question that the jury asked might have been one of the most significant. It`s about comparing the injuries that Travis suffered with the injuries that Arias suffered.
Remember, if it`s self-defense, Travis was attacking her, she`d have injuries. And so the jury question was, Would you agree that you came away from the June 4th incident rather unscathed, as opposed to Travis, who suffered a gunshot and multiple stab wounds? You only had a bump on your head, a bruise on your head and some cuts and scrapes.
And Arias had nowhere to go, she had to agree that, yes, if you compare our injuries, he was brutally injured and I had a few cuts and scrapes.
GRACE: Well, let`s just say that she got the long end of the stick on that. And she really, as you`re saying, Matt Zarrell, could not come up with a good answer.
Let`s take a listen to Jodi Arias in court. Liz, let`s go in the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why were you afraid of the consequences if you killed Travis in self-defense?"
ARIAS: I was -- I believed that it`s not OK in any circumstance to take someone`s life, even if you`re defending your own life. That`s how I believed it. So I never really stopped to consider how society would view it if someone is defending themself. I just felt like I had done something wrong, and I was afraid of what the consequences would be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why didn`t you just run out of the house instead of grabbing the gun from the closet?"
ARIAS: Well, again, I can`t -- it happened so fast. I did initially think run, so that`s why I went down the hallway. And then right as I got to the hallway, with the doors being shut, it just seemed like more of an obstacle. It would give him more time to catch up to open the door this way and run around it and out, when this door was an equal distance and open, and I could just run that way and into it.
So my thought maybe initially was to run out the other door and then around and out, but just something to create more distance because the last time had I run that same route, I was not successful in running out of the room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You said when the gun went off, you weren`t sure if you shot Travis. So you came out of the fog on your way to Utah, why didn`t you call 911 to help Travis?"
ARIAS: When I sort of came out of the fog, I realized, Oh, crap, something bad had happened. And I was scared to call any authority at that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Whoa! Talk about the stress! Jean, look at that cold sore on her lip. That wasn`t there yesterday. Ouch!
CASAREZ: And Nancy, do you want to hear another question? She was asked, Does Mr. Martinez make you shake? The answer was, Yes, he does. How often have you been shaking during this trial? She said, On the first day of trial, I shook a lot. I`ve shook almost every day, and I especially shook on the first day of cross-examination. And sometimes I have to clench my teeth so I don`t shake.
GRACE: Well, I think that the cold sore didn`t erupt until she got into those jury questions, everybody. She is on the hotseat, and you can tell her demeanor has greatly changed. She`s fumbling. She`s twidgeting (ph). She`s trying to come up with an answer.
Back out to you, Matt. What about the gas cans? That`s still coming up.
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, it is coming up. And the prosecutor is really hammering Arias on it, particularly revolving around two things. One is a stop she made in Utah, in Salt Lake City, on her way home. where she made three purchases of gas.
And then the prosecutor gave her more information, that the Walmart in Salinas where Arias claims she bought the third gas can, later returned it, has no record of any refund in any way on June 3rd, the day she claims she returned that third gas can. So she`s caught in yet another alleged lie.
GRACE: You know -- out to you, Alexis Weed. Everyone, Alexis Weed also at the courthouse along with us. I thought it was very, very interesting that she was asked, Did you tell anybody else about Travis Alexander`s pedophilia, about him masturbating to photos of little boys? And she actually said that she told a shrink or a counselor and Matt McCartney (ph). Is that correct?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. She said that she told a shrink -- and this would be around 2010. And that, coincidentally, is around the same time when this self-defense theory for Arias is starting to be generated. So the defense -- the prosecutor -- excuse me -- he really hammered in on that, and he said, Well, when exactly was that, and wasn`t that to your benefit to bring this pedophilia issue up? Wasn`t that benefiting your case when you brought this self-defense into the picture?
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, this guy Matt McCartney -- he has not testified. Is he the same guy that she was slipping notes in code on various pages of "Star" magazine...
CASAREZ: Potentially.
GRACE: ... telling him to testify a certain way?
CASAREZ: Quite potentially. And Nancy, I think something`s going to happen because once again, the prosecutor said, So this is the person that would never betray you, never betray you at all. And he said, Do you realize what he said January of 2013? It sounds like there`s been a type of interview, deposition, and he`s going to betray her. So I think we need to look forward to that in the rebuttal case.
GRACE: Well, you know what? I don`t know if I would call it betraying her so much as not lying under oath and getting socked with perjury charges because if she is telling this jury that she told Matt McCartney she was in love with a pedophile way back when, that`s going to really boost the defense case. So I`m predicting somebody`s going to haul Matt McCartney into court, and I`m betting you it`s going to be the state.
We are taking your calls. Denise in Arizona. Hi, Denise. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. You covered some of it. I guess there was no ammo found. But I want to know, as a resident of Arizona, no -- you can`t just go in and buy five, six, seven shells. You have to buy a box of shells. So Travis -- he would have -- I think he`s a smart guy. He would have his gun on his insurance policy, and his roommates would have known he had a gun. He`s not stupid. As a resident of Arizona...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! That`s a good idea! Hold on. Hold on. Hold on! I`m writing that down. That is a good idea. He would have had the gun on his insurance policy. And what did you say about his roommates?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would have told his roommates. As -- again, as an Arizona resident, if you live with somebody, you tell your roommates because if something happens, you want your roommates to know that gun`s there for safety. In case something happens, you want your roommates to know...
GRACE: You know, this is bringing up...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that there`s a gun.
GRACE: ... another question. This is bringing up another question in my mind, Denise in Arizona. In Arizona, I assume you got to have a license to carry a gun, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t. You don`t. It used to be if you wanted to carry a conceal permit, you had to go take classes. They just recently changed it within the last year. You can go in, they do a criminal background check, and there`d be a record. If Travis bought a gun, there would be a criminal background check where he went in, bought a gun, and they would have ran his background check.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Why did you wait for so long to tell the truth?"
ARIAS: It took a long time for me to get to this point. I never wanted to admit to this. And I had written out all my suicide letters. I sent my note -- I sent them all in an envelope to my grandmother`s, Do not open until November 10th, 2008. I was hoping to be dead by then. I was, like, giving myself a little time to get my affairs in order. That date rolled by, and then more time rolled by, and I -- I`m still here. So with the evolution of just time and the years, couple of years that went by, it was a gradual process and I began to feel not right about keeping it in instead (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Would you decide to tell the truth if you never got arrested?"
ARIAS: I honestly don`t know the answer to that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Whoa! That is a bombshell! Would you have ever told the truth if you hadn`t been arrested? And her answer is, You know what? I really don`t know if I would ever have come clean.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Jason Oshins, defense attorney, New York and other jurisdictions. Also with me, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney of the Atlanta jurisdiction. She`s tried a murder case or two.
All right, Renee, I assume we can all agree on one thing. We all hate when a jury -- if you`re trying a case and a jury gets to ask questions. You know, I don`t know if...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes, because there are certain questions you ask or you don`t6 ask for your own strategic reasons. The jury doesn`t care about your strategy. They`re going to ask whatever they want. And I got to tell you, I think that the defense is getting a kick in the mouth on this, Renee.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Once you put your client on the stand, Nancy, wide open. And there`s one judge in Fulton County, where I practice, that allows that, Robert McBurney (ph). The state puts on the witness, then the defendant, then he turns to the jury and has them write out questions.
The lawyers get to review them, but the judge does the same thing in Fulton County. Nancy, it`s got to be cross-examination in the worst degree for a defendant on the stand. But when you take the stand, you`re wide open.
GRACE: Yes, you really are. Jason, is it worth it, what they`ve done? Because come on, look -- look at these questions. I tried to just list my top 10 for you and Renee.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
GRACE: I`ve got four pages of questions. And I`m just going to kick it off with, After all the lies you`ve told, Jodi Arias, why should we believe you now? I mean, that`s not a good question, Jason.
OSHINS: No, Nancy. Listen, you know, the problem with, you know, Arizona here and some other jurisdictions that allow it is that, you know, laypeople, jurors become investigators. And you know, you see these very intense questions and the -- you know, the wonder of defense counsel is, Are they exceeding, you know, their role, and now they feel that they`ve been deputized?
But as Renee said and as you`ve said, you know, when your -- when your client goes on -- you really -- you take great chances with that. And I think in some ways, she had no choice.
GRACE: Not a thing you can do. Well, let`s go -- let`s go in the courtroom and take a listen to Jodi Arias on the stand. Go in the courtroom, please, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "How did Travis`s anger escalate after you shot him?"
ARIAS: He -- I don`t remember the words he was saying, but he was angrier. He was screaming more. He was cursing more. And we had fallen over right after that shot occurred and he was grabbing at my clothes and grabbing at me. And again, as soon as I broke away, he threatened my life. So that was definitely an escalation in his anger. That`s how I interpreted it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Was he chasing you after you shot him in the head?"
ARIAS: Right after the shot occurred, we had fallen over in the bathroom, again toward the sink (INAUDIBLE) the sink and garbage can area, kind of in the corner. So he didn`t chase me in that moment, but that`s where we struggled on the floor. And again, as soon as I broke away and -- he said, F-ing kill you, bitch, I don`t remember a lot after that. So whether he chased me or not, I couldn`t say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Did you enjoy having sex with Travis?"
ARIAS: For the most part, yes, I did, very much. He didn`t physically force me or anything like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "How could you kiss another man when you knew what you just did to Travis?"
ARIAS: Again, my state of mind wasn`t right at that time. He wasn`t pressuring me for sex, and I didn`t think he was going to haul off and smack me if I said (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Were you in the fog when you were kissing Ryan?"
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We`re camped out outside the courthouse, bringing you the latest, Jodi Arias on the stand, fielding over 200 questions from the jury.
Now, I appreciate Denise in Arizona clarifying the carrying a concealed weapon. And to Clark and Diane (ph), who have gotten me the law. You can carry a concealed weapon in Arizona without a permit. But you do have to submit to a background check. So there you go, Jean. They could very easily show whether a background check was ever run on Travis Alexander. I think you could do that.
CASAREZ: Depends on how he got the gun because you can buy guns at garage sales. You can just -- you know, somebody gives it to you. So I don`t think it`s conclusive, but it could be a part of the case, you`re right.
GRACE: That`s true. You know what? You`re right, Jean, not conclusive. Possibly persuasive, but not conclusive.
So Matt Zarrell, what else came up during questioning of Jodi Arias today?
ZARRELL: Well, one of the big things that the prosecutor focused on, particularly in the follow-up questions, was Arias kept saying she has an excellent memory. Remember, we heard that many times. She says, I have a good memory, I have a very good memory. And then any time that Arias says, Well I`m not sure, I don`t recall, the prosecutor immediately shoots back, But I thought you said you had a great memory. So you don`t have -- you have a great memory except for this?
And he kept doing that over and over again, and again, Arias gets caught in a situation, Nancy, where she has trouble explaining herself. She sits there, she looks at the judge, she looks at the jury. She doesn`t really know where to go with it. And unfortunately, she`s there on her own on this island and these defense attorneys can`t really help her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "In the moments of stress or fog, how do you recall what happened in those moments if it affects your memory?"
ARIAS: Physical things I can remember because I feel them physically.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You can`t remember how you stabbed him so many times and slashed his throat?"
ARIAS: The confusion comes in when he begins to get angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a problem with your memory?
ARIAS: I don`t think I have a problem. I think I have a really excellent memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a problem with your memory?
ARIAS: Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
I think that I have a good memory.
The fog or the confusion, I don`t recall clearly what happens in those moments as far as details.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Is there anyone else who knows about your memory issues?"
ARIAS: I don`t think I have memory issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Then that`s your answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What a day in the Arias courtroom today! We are camped outside the courthouse, bringing you the latest. Arias has been on the hotseat, and this is what happens when you put your client on the stand. She has been trying to field, trying her best to field and come up with the answers for over 200 jury questions.
We are taking your calls. Out to Billy in Florida.
Billy, you`re a legal eagle. What`s your question?
BILLY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: I have caught her in a pretty good lie tonight, Nancy. We`re all talking about the gun in the holster. But here`s the big thing that Jodi said. Jodi said that after he found the gun, that the jury asked her, well, what did you say to Travis? And she said after I found the gun, I said, Travis told me that it`s never loaded. You know, he doesn`t keep it loaded. So.
GRACE: Ouch.
BILLY: We know that --
GRACE: Ouch.
BILLY: We know that she didn`t -- here`s what I`m -- here`s my theory on this. Of course, we know she didn`t use his gun. He didn`t have a gun but for her story, what she`s claiming is that she would run to the closet to grab a gun that Travis knows isn`t loaded. She knows isn`t loaded and that was supposed to -- and that she held it on him. She thought that would stop him from charging at her. But if it`s his gun, and he knows it`s not loaded, how would that have scared him?
How would -- how would she have used -- it doesn`t make any sense. And then here`s another thing she -- she messed up charge when it came to the dog. She claimed -- she was asked yesterday was the dog -- did the dog bark when people came to the door. She said absolutely, when someone came to the door and turned the knob, the dog would come to the door. It was a very, very attentive, you know, it was a very alert dog but she claims when she got there 4:00 in the morning, she was able to go in the backdoor, walk through his house, up into his office, stand behind him for I think she said 30 to 40 seconds while he was watching YouTube sitting -- when the dog was sitting next to him and then the dog turned around her and noticed her, and that`s when Travis noticed her -- noticed her.
So how does the dog suddenly become not --
GRACE: OK. Hold on. Hold on, Billy.
Liz, hold on to Billy.
How many times have we seen a dog suddenly become a witness in the case? It happened in the O.J. Simpson trial with the Akita dog, it happened in the Laci Peterson, Scott Peterson case, with her dog. It`s happened over and over and over, and Billy, you have a fantastic point.
Jean Casarez, not just the two inconsistencies that Billy has come up with, but think of all these jury questions. Every one is stemming from an inconsistency in her testimony.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": And here`s the thing. I mean, we need to really look at what was testified to. Her testimony was that when every -- anybody went to the front door and knocked or rang the doorbell the dog would bark. So by slipping in the side door, as she said she did, she didn`t say the dog barked so the defense would say there`s a difference there.
GRACE: Hmm. That`s splitting hairs, I think, but I see where you`re going.
Joining me right now, Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session."
Beth, what a day in the courtroom. Give me your take.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Oh, my goodness, Nancy. Fireworks again. When the day ended, Juan Martinez was grilling Jodi Arias. He covered three areas, he`ll continue next week. He talked about -- basically accusing her of making up allegations of pedophilia after she was arrested and to sift in her defense.
That point may not be fully developed yet. And then he said you told us you returned a third gas can you bought. She said yes. He said well then why did you go to salt lake city with three gas cans? And he then proceeded to show or not only two receipts for gas but her bank statement showing a credit card or debit card that was used with three purchases at the same gas station, the third purchase there`s no receipt for it.
Happens to equal exactly five gallons of gas at the price. So he`s accusing her of having three cans and he said to her, would you be surprised to know that Wal-Mart has no record whatsoever of your returning that gas can. And she said, I am surprised because I did return it.
He then had started to move into the injury on her fingers. The injury to her right hand at work a week before she killed Travis Alexander, presumably he`ll pick up next week, with the left hand injury, which he believes I think that she injured during the killing of Travis Alexander.
GRACE: Beth, you -- we`ve all been in the courtroom. You`ve been in there since before the parties came in along with Jean. How do you think she`s fielding these questions? I think they`re questions that are too tough for her to answer.
KARAS: Well, somewhat -- they are tough for her to answer but you know what, she does contradict herself and Martinez caught her in that. I mean, he was like, wait a second, you said you don`t recall when you were in Pasadena and you bought three gas purchases? You don`t recall the order but when the jury asked you that question why you didn`t do it in one transaction, you did it in three you remembered the order?
Which is it, you don`t remember or you do? And she said well, what I was saying is to the best of my recollection or logically speaking, so he is catching her in inconsistencies and over the course of the month she`s been on the stand, she has contradicted herself.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to Jodi Arias on the stand under questioning by prosecution Martinez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Did you think that it`s to your detriment then to come in here to court and talk about Mr. Alexander masturbating to a picture of a young person, a young boy? Do you think that that`s to your detriment?
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF MURDERED EX-BOYFRIEND, TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I don`t know if it`s to my benefit or detriment. I just know it`s the truth.
MARTINEZ: I`m not asking you if it`s the truth, am I?
ARIAS: No.
MARTINEZ: I`m asking you whether that`s not -- isn`t that to your benefit?
ARIAS: I don`t know if an it`s to my benefit or my detriment.
MARTINEZ: Why bring it up then if it isn`t going to be any use to you?
ARIAS: I swore to tell everything that I remember.
MARTINEZ: Pardon? I didn`t hear you.
ARIAS: Are you talking about here or with Richard Samuels?
MARTINEZ: I`m talking about right here. Why bring it up if it`s not going to help you?
ARIAS: Because it was asked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?
ARIAS: Lying is -- isn`t typically something I just do. I`m not going to say that I`ve never told a lie in my life before this incident. But the lies that I`ve told in this case are -- can be tied directly back to either protecting Travis`s reputation or my involvement in his death in any way. Because I was very ashamed of the death and also I wanted to edify Travis in a good way. I didn`t want to (INAUDIBLE) him or say hateful things about him especially now that he had passed away and I also didn`t want that to be construed as motive, for example, if he was violent with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Well, this week in the Jodi Arias trial, we all expected a bombshell in the redirect examination of Jodi Arias to try and rehabilitate the scathing cross-examination she underwent last week at the hands of the prosecution. But instead, it seemed more like a broken record. We got more of the same that we heard on direct and as a matter of fact, the defense -- I guess it was planned, but seemingly unwittingly brought their client down off the stand for yet another demonstration. And I`m sure the prosecution was very happy about that.
We`ve come this far in the trial. And there has been a lot of damning evidence. This may be the very last chance redirect examination for the defense to turn the case around. It`s all on them now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you consider the event when Travis choked you a stressful event?
ARIAS: Certainly, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After you snatched the gun off the shelf, did you do anything to the gun?
ARIAS: I don`t know. Probably not. I just grabbed it and pointed is what I remember. Never fired a gun, but I was relatively familiar with it. The lunging and the gun going off was sort of contemporaneous. It all happened very fast and it also happened all at once.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are stating you believe you stabbed Travis based on logic. How do you explain the blood on your hands?
ARIAS: I don`t know how things ended up, where they ended up. I just know that we were fighting physically.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you agree that you came away from the June 4th incident rather unscathed?
ARIAS: Yes, I would have to say that`s a relatively accurate assessment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers."
Bethany, have you noticed that under intense jury questioning, she suddenly has gotten this huge cold sore that`s broken out on her lip from the pure stress of it? Ouch.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Yes, you know what, Nancy, I have a theory about that. You know, I disagree with the panel tonight that the jury is trying to take up an investigative function or that they`re trying to point out inconsistencies. I think what they`re doing is they`re sticking it to her. They hate her at this point.
They`ve seen her stick it to Juan Martinez, kill her boyfriend, they`ve seen her be smug and arrogant, and they have not bonded with her in any way. They`re starting to feel about her how she treats everybody else.
GRACE: Bethany, Bethany.
MARSHALL: So when you say, why --
GRACE: Haven`t bonded with her? It`s like trying to cozy up to a rattlesnake. Who could bond with her?
MARSHALL: I know, but --
(LAUGHTER)
But you know how the defense hopes like in the Casey Anthony case that the longer they put that defendant on the stand, the more the jury is going to bond with that person, with the perpetrator, feel sorry for them and be lenient. And you know what? It worked in the Casey Anthony trial. That strategy worked.
It is not going to work in this case. They are having strong negative emotion, and they are sort of sticking her nose in it every step of the way, and for the first time, she cannot do anything back. She cannot be smug, irritated, arrogant. You know why? Her life is quite literally in their hands. You think of like a mob lynching or vigilante justice. When the crowd has had enough with the perpetrator`s crime spree, they do turn and they do get aggressive.
And I think we`re seeing a little bit of that type -- sort of psychology, but in a very sort of rationalized stratified kind of way. They are turning on her. My concern, Nancy, is that now that they`ve given her an old-fashioned spanking or scolding, are they going to feel that they`ve done enough and then be more lenient when it comes to the verdict.
GRACE: Well, one thing I think that has turned them, put them off with her, and I`m going to go to Josh Denne, who was a very close friend of Travis Alexander`s, also knows Jodi Arias. You know, you would expect somebody on trial for their life to say it was self-defense, self-defense. But -- hold on. I`m getting feedback. So I`m going to take this off for a second.
But, Josh, when they then tried, the defense of Jodi Arias tried to portray him as a pedophile, I mean, you can expect somebody jumping up with a definitely defense claim whether it`s true or not. But to then further try to tarnish him and drag him through the mud by saying he`s a pedophile? I think that really enraged the jury.
JOSH DENNE, CLOSE FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER, KNOWS JODI ARIAS: I think it would enrage anyone. I think, though, by now clearly everyone will see that everything that she`s created here is a -- is a nightmare third jail. Just to -- the throw people off the fact that she brutally murdered a great man, and that she`s throwing anything out, anything at all. And this is just another one of those little pieces of the puzzle that prove that she`s a liar and she`ll say anything to get this to go away.
GRACE: Well, tell me what your reaction is to the picture that the defense has painted of your friend, Travis Alexander, and what do you know of Arias?
DENNE: You know, all I know of Arias is that when I first met her, I think I was on the show last time, I said, you know, how she made me feel. And I think I`ve seen, you know, person after person say the same thing. She gave you an eerie feeling, she was one you wanted to get away from. So that`s what I knew of her. And I also knew that she wasn`t good for my friend Travis.
Here`s the real -- the real question is, everything she`s saying, the his pedophile nonsense, all this junk is so out of character with Travis Alexander, and I know, Nancy, you`ve been interviewing a lot of his friends and his family and there`s not one person that would say anything mean about Travis or anything anywhere near this crazy fiction that she`s trying to spin.
So it`s just -- it`s pathetic. It`s really pathetic. And I think everybody by now sees that yes, it is pathetic that she`s just scraping with her nails to try to defend her --
GRACE: Right.
DENNE: Sort of nonsense and her vicious venomous action that she did.
GRACE: Also with us tonight, Patty Wood out of Miami, Florida, she is one of the premiere body language experts.
Patty, I mean, I`m asking you about her demeanor on the stand because it means so much, but I think the cold sore that breaks out in the middle of the juror questioning says it all.
PATTY WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Absolutely distracting, isn`t it? And we see such a dramatic shift from yesterday where there were times that she was actually enjoying answering the questions. She was preening. Her body language was up. Today we see much more stress, even when her own attorney went to speak to her, we saw her do a seat adjustment. She rocked back and forth in a self-comfort the cue. She gulped down. She doesn`t trust him to take care of her at this point, and you saw that stress.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times did you try to kill yourself?
ARIAS: I believe that was in California when I took apart my razor and was going to do that. That was the only serious attempt I`ve made. Other than that it`s just like ideation, thinking how I might be able to do this or that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live camped out here outside of the Phoenix courtroom bringing you the latest in the Jodi Arias murder one trial.
Matt Zarrell, we`ve gone through some of the key questions but there are so many it`s really hard to identify even the top 10, but give me your best shot of the ones we haven`t already discussed.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK. Well, there were some -- we discussed yesterday, I`m trying to find stuff that we haven`t -- a lot of stuff about the gun, a lot of stuff about the blood.
Nancy, I want to point out here she basically has a row of eight baskets in front of her with different answers that match what she`s going to say and it`s all a matter of answer a question, and it goes in this box, which is, I was protecting Travis, or this box, I don`t remember, or this box, I can`t recall, or this box, I have a great memory. And she`s just basically bouncing around and putting the ball in the box depending on the question.
I mean, some of the questions are asked about the sexual encounters. How do you remember so many of your sexual encounters including your ex- boyfriend but you do not remember stabbing Travis and dragging his body? That she continues to say that there`s a significant moment in her life but that she doesn`t remember it but again remembers all these details that we heard on eight days of direct and multiple days of cross-examination.
GRACE: And to you, Jean Casarez. They got into such nitty-gritty. They know every question that has been asked of her. They know every answer that she has given.
Hold on, I`ve also on satellite to Jean. I`m going to throw this to Beth.
In fact, Beth, they said, why didn`t you just run out of the house instead of grabbing the gun from the closet? Why did you decide to tell the truth after two years following the killing? You know, they have very, very specific questions in mind for her, Beth.
KARAS: Oh, yes, and the last questions of all from the jury, like, how could you kiss another man when you knew what you just did to Travis was very telling, and then the final question, would you agree you came out of this rather unscathed, a bump on the head, some cuts and abrasions on your ankles, compared to all of the knife wounds and throat slashing on Travis Alexander?
And she said, yes, I would agree, that`s a pretty accurate assessment. Now they have a few more questions in the basket since Nurni and Martinez started doing follow-up questioning. We`ll see if they get to ask them, though.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Staff Sergeant Christopher Antonik, 29, Crystal Lake, Illinois, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, parents John and Cindy, sister Jennifer, widow, Erin.
Christopher Antonik. American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was Mr. Alexander to you?
ARIAS: He was my ex-boyfriend. He was kind of like a best friend in a way because we were still very close.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jodi Arias on the hot seat fielding questions from the jury. Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight out of Atlanta, Renee Rockwell. Out of New York, Jason Oshins.
So Jason Oshins, what`s your takeaway of all these questions?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, she`s under enormous stress. We see that from her body language, you see the cold sore. I mean, who wouldn`t be after about two and a half weeks of cross-examination for a murder trial?
So I don`t begrudge the cold sore and I certainly can relate to the fact as a client who is on that hot seat, it is incredibly stressful, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, you know, I don`t begrudge anybody being nervous, but the reality is, this is what happens, Renee, when you stab somebody 29 times, slash their throat and cap them in the head, Renee.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t know that she did that. We do know this, Nancy. Some trials are all about prove it. This trial --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: We don`t know what? She`s already said she did it.
ROCKWELL: Some trials are prove it. Other trials are, I did it and this is why. When you have a self-defense, you have to take the stand, and it`s no walk in the park.
OSHINS: That`s for sure.
GRACE: Everybody, we will remain camped out here in front of the Phoenix courthouse to bring you the very latest, all hoping for a verdict that speaks the truth.
And as we go to break, happy anniversary to Georgia friends Ann and Chuck Lynch. Beating the odds, married 56 years.
"DR. DREW" up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
