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North Korea Rejects New Sanctions; Bill Clinton Asks Supreme Court to Overturn Defense of Marriage Act; Vatican Conclave to Start Tuesday; Jury Questions Jodi Arias.

Aired March 08, 2013 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, RETIRED ARMY GENERAL & CNN CONTRIBUTOR: And it also brings in some fixed locations that are in South Korea, as well.

So there is a great robust, very redundant anti-missile system that exists. But clearly what we've seen with the North is the irrational behavior and this volatile personality --

(CROSSTALK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And just strangeness. Spider, just strangeness all around.

Speaking of strangeness, I'm sure it wasn't lost on you that Dennis Rodman had something to say on ABC News about how President Kim doesn't want to do war. Those were Dennis's words, he doesn't want to do war, he just wants President Obama to call him. Who is in charge? When you hear things like that, do you think the generals are in charge and they're running the show and throwing off threat after threat? Three threat this week, by the way, just this week, a day after we got the information from Dennis Rodman. Who is running the show over there?

MARKS: Well, this is his father's boy. I mean, the new leader in the North has picked up on this cult of personality that's been this place. This odd, rather inexplicable mix of communism and nepotism that's been in place since the North was created at the tail end of World War II. So we're seeing very normal behavior out of the North that frankly we have a hard time fully understanding. So --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Although normal is in the eye of the beholder. Look at the images. Those are military men flailing their arms like girls at a Bieber concert. It is a very unusual thing for Americans to digest --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MARKS: -- this picture.

BANFIELD: I thought you'd say that.

Spider Marks, good to see you. Thank you for your input on the show today.

MARKS: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Have a great weekend.

MARKS: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So inside Bill Clinton's White House, when he was signing an act he now says was the wrong thing to do. Wolf Blitzer was there. He will join us to give us the inside story of what the mood was really like.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We've been talking a lot about Bill Clinton's famous now op-ed today on the Defense of Marriage Act in the "Washington Post," when he writes that he calls on the Supreme Court to overturn the act. That was an act that he, as president, signed into law.

Wolf Blitzer joins me from Washington, D.C.

Wolf, I wanted to get your take on this because you were covering Bill Clinton at the time. You were covering Congress at the time. And he says it was a very, very different time. In fact, that's his quote, "It was a very different time." He states numbers like 81 out of 535 members of Congress actually opposed the bill, which meant that the best he could do was what he did, so that there wouldn't be a constitutional amendment. It almost sounds like he did the best thing to make sure that he'd buy the movement 10 more years. Do you buy into this, knowing what the mood really was at the White House back then?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM: The mood, 17, 16, 17 years ago was certainly a lot different as far as gay marriage is concerned than it is across the country right now. It's become much more acceptable over the years. Then, President Clinton was opposed to same-sex marriage. He write this is his article today, as you point out, in the "Washington Post," that he signed the Defense of Marriage Act because he was afraid that if it wouldn't be signed, the momentum leading for a formal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage would have set back the movement for a long time.

And you have to keep the issue of Clinton and gay rights in perspective. I remember it very vividly because I started covering him during the transition. After he was elected in 1992 before he took office January 20th, 1993, I was at Little Rock, Arkansas. He was then the governor of Arkansas, president elect, and that's when -- during the campaign, he had basically said gays should be allowed to serve in the military but he quickly retracted that after the uproar after he was elected president. There was a lot of opposition from within the military, branches of the U.S. military. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Colin Powell, at the time opposed allowing gays to serve in the military. And only then, months later, 1993, did they come up with a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, which was seen as a compromise of sorts. But it clearly was a deviation from where Bill Clinton had been during the campaign when he said the military doesn't have a person to waste. Everybody's got to play a role. That caused a lot of controversy at the time. But obviously, he now opposes "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," he opposes the Defense of Marriage Acts, as so many others across the board, Republicans and Democrats, have come to do, as well.

BANFIELD: Yes. You'll have a lot to talk about at 4:00.

Thank you, Wolf. Good to see you.

"The Situation Room" gets under way again at 4:00 eastern. Wolf and the team will be talking a lot about that.

For three weeks, Jodi Arias has been on the stand. And the last few days, she's been answering questions directly from the jurors who will decide if she lives or dies, about her lie and her kissing a guy after she just killed her ex-boyfriend. So what do you think the mood they're in is? You'll find out in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I don't know if you have any plans coming up on Tuesday, but you might want to be in front of your TV because the conclave gets under way. The cardinals have finally decided on a date to start the process of picking their next pope. This is all I can tell you. They're very cagy. None of the cardinals is even talking to the press at this time. But they did give us this. The Vatican press office says, "The Eighth General Congregation of the College of Cardinals has decided that the conclave will begin on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013."

Of course, the big question is, who is on the short list. Have they used the last week since the pope actually stepped down to make a short list? Is this a lengthy process?

Our John Allen, who helps us out with all things Vatican, is at Vatican City and is going to join us shortly. We're just scrambling to see him together, because, you know what, we've been waiting and waiting for this announcement, so it's quite something. Again, the communication.

We're starting to get the feeling that the jurors who have been sitting in the Jodi Arias case are getting a little fed up. And I don't mean with the length of the trial. I mean with what's being said. Because over the last two days, they've had the chance to give their own questions to the accused murder, and they have been not holding back in the least. They're hammering her with at least 220 extremely pointed questions. Those questions are all read by the judge, not the jurors. We don't know which of the jurors wrote them or if all of them had a part in it, but the tone seems to indicate that they don't believe much about this ever-changing story.

Let me get you to Randi Kaye, who wraps up everything for you.

But I do have this warning, it is pretty graphic testimony. In fact -- Randi Kaye, I'll hold her off because Ben Wedeman is standing by live, our senior international correspondent. He is in Rome.

I'm a glad we could scramble you to a microphone, Ben Wedeman. Very exciting that we finally have the date. I won't suggest that you've been alive for the last couple of conclaves, but this seems like a lengthy process just to get the date for the process. Is it?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it certainly is. It's been a week now, rather five full days of meetings by more than 200 cardinals to decide on a date. They did decide it will be Tuesday, the 12th of March, according to a press release we received from the Vatican press office. In the morning on Tuesday, the cardinals who will be participating in the conclave will take part in a special mass and, of course, at this point, we have no idea how long the conclave will go. But really, this general congregation of cardinals, which includes not only the lectors, those 115 cardinals who will participate in the conclave, but those over the age of 80. They've been discussing a lot of weighty issues, governance of the church, financial matters, the various scandals that have racked the courage over church. So they've had a lot to discuss. But now, late on Friday afternoon, here in Rome, they've finally decided when to hold the conclave.

BANFIELD: Ben, why did they stop talking to us?

WEDEMAN: Well, that's a good question. What we're hearing from some sources is they were somewhat annoyed that a lot of press leaks were going out, that the Americans were holding these almost daily press conferences where they didn't talk about the details of the general congregation, but, rather, they were giving a lot of sort of background information into the whole process. And apparently it was decided by the Vatican it's time simply to be quiet, to finish this discussion and get around to the business of deciding upon when to hold the conclave.

BANFIELD: And it was just one week ago almost to this moment that we all watched as then-Pope Benedict got on his helicopter and went off to his retreat, this lovely castle. And I'm assuming we haven't heard anything since. Just asking.

WEDEMAN: As far as Pope Benedict, no, he's been very silent. We heard in papal spokesman how he spent his first night. There were two photographs published in an Italian magazine showing him strolling the grounds of Castel Gandolfo, but that's about all we've heard about Pope Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI since he stepped down just a week ago.

BANFIELD: Ben, quickly, they've come up with a week to come up with a decision on just a simple at a time and decision to stop talking to the press. But is there any indication from their actions, from their meetings that they may actually be meeting about a short list and, if that's the case, who might be on it?

WEDEMAN: There is no talk about -- I mean, there is a short list being thrown around about a dozen candidates, possible candidates. But as far as the cardinals are concerned, they've been fairly tight lipped about it. We do understand there are sort of two major trends among the cardinals, 115 cardinals who will be participating in the conclave. Those who prefer a European candidate and those, largely from North and South America, who want to see somebody from the New World to bring a new vision and new management to the Vatican, but specific lots of names, there are lots being thrown around, but it's anybody's guess at this point.

BANFIELD: And, Ben, just technically for people -- there are a lot of people who visit Italy and a lot of people who visit Rome and Vatican, and they see the Sistine Chapel. It's the number-one tourist destination but it's not just for tourism. It's for the conclave. Take me through the process. Do they literally lock themselves in and not emerge until the smoke clears?

WEDEMAN: Because the conclave can go on for several days, what happens is that they're put up in the Santa Marta. It's a residence that was built by -- or, rather, built during the reign of John Paul II, where they will be in complete seclusion. There will be an electronic jamming system installed so there is no way they can communicate with the outside world. They will have no access to television, radio, the Internet, Blackberry, e-mail, anything like that. Every day they will walk or some will have to be driven from the Santa Marta residence to the Sistine Chapel, which is really a road behind the Basilica. Once they're in there, they have four votes a day. And really there is no discussion within the Sistine Chapel during the conclave. It's really just voting and prayer and contemplation. Any discussions would take place on that walk back and forth between Santa Marta and the Sistine Chapel and in Santa Marta itself in the off hours. But they are in total seclusion during the entire process of the conclave.

BANFIELD: I would love to know when the procedure began including electronic jamming systems. But that's for another day.

Ben Wedeman, excellent work. Thank you. I couldn't even stump you on any of that. Thanks, Ben.

When we come back at the top of the hour, we'll have a whole lot more on the conclave process, the short list, what the cardinals have been up to, the very board press waiting for the cardinals to make a decision.

But right after the break, a jury who looks right at a defendant, a jury who could have her life in their hands, and says, why should we believe you now when all you've been doing is lying. Can you imagine what she felt like when she heard that? We'll find out in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: For days and days and days, a young lady has been sitting on a witness stand. In fact, she's coming up on her 18th day, testifying in her own murder trial. Usually, we don't get to see that. What we really don't get to see is the jury, who is going to decide her fate, asking their very own questions. Can I tell you some of the questions Jodi Arias was asked by her jury yesterday, in a case where she admits to killing her boyfriend, self-defense, but slashing and stabbing and, oh, lord, shooting him? It was overkill if you ask anybody in the courtroom. Here's the greatest one, though. The jury looking right at her and through the judge asking, "After all the lies you have told," because she had three different versions of the story, "why should we believe you now"? It got better, too, in fact? "How could you go onto have a date with another man after violently killing the guy you said you had to kill? Like nothing happened"? And then, "You remember dropping the knife, you remember screaming, but you don't remember the other stuff"?

Because conveniently perhaps, Miss Arias has forgotten all the details that could sink her in the case.

Let me bring in Vinnie Politan, from our sister network, HLN, and former Florida juvenile court judge, Glenda Hatchett.

Is the best question, "After all the lies you've told, why should we believe you now"? Vinnie?

VINNIE POLITAN, HOST, HLN: Yes, but I have a confession, Judge Ashleigh, I am now believing that Jodi Arias' assertion that she has memory problems that she has memory gaps. I think it's legitimate. Here's one of her answers yesterday, "I think I have an excellent memory. I don't think I have memory issues.

(CROSSTALK)

POLITAN: She has forgotten about her memory issues.

(LAUGHTER)

GLENDA HATCHETT, FORMER JUVENILE COURT JUDGE: Good point, Vinnie.

(LAUGHTER)

POLITAN: It's unbelievable.

HATCHETT: Good point. Good point.

BANFIELD: That is a good point.

OK, Glenda, you have said that you think this case not necessarily will turn on all the lies that this lying liar has told -- and I say that because she's admitted. I'm not analyzing.

(CROSSTALK)

POLITAN: You're not judging. You're not judging.

BANFIELD: Well, I'm judging with my tone, but not with what I say.

HATCHETT: No, she said it. She said it.

BANFIELD: You say this case is going to come down to the forensics and there's a little itty bitty cartridge, a shell that is ejected from the gun when you have to shoot someone and has to fall. It's in your picture. You see it sitting there. It's shiny in a pool of blood, which tells you that bleeding had to start before the shooting. She says she shot him before she stabbed him.

HATCHETT: I absolutely believe this case is going to turn on that one question. After days, weeks of testimony, Ashleigh and Vinnie, I think she's going to get tripped up because the evidence is going to show she shot him after she stabbed him a zillions times and --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: And, therefore, the whole memory, I don't remember, I don't remember ---

HATCHETT: It's out the window. She says, I shot him. I'm not sure if I shot him because I didn't mean to shoot him. But there is no blood on that cartridge, rolling. She can't say it rolled into the blood.

BANFIELD: The casing.

HATCHETT: I'm sorry, the casing. That it rolled into the blood. And if the prosecutor does an effective close, I think that is the Perry Mason moment.

(CROSSTALK)

POLITAN: It is because it takes self defense off the table.

(CROSSTALK)

POLITAN: She defended herself with the gun. When he was chasing her through the closet, she went up and grabbed the gun. That was a self defense. But if she's stabbing him in the back and stabbing him in the heart and trying to decapitate him --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Those are all the facts.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: You guys are lawyers. You're a judge. You're so smart. You get every piece of evidence. Jurors are pretty smart. They're really --

(CROSSTALK)

POLITAN: No, these jurors are really smart.

BANFIELD: But in the end, they're lay people and they have feelings. When you watch a young woman like Jodi Arias look over to you, and lie with a check mark, almost like, yes, I have an answer to that one, too. Oh, and I have an answer to that one, too, and I have an answer too, with a certain degree of smugness, does your gut take over for what you should be determining, which are just the weight of the facts? HATCHETT: Let me tell you why the jury is really paying attention and I think it's going to turn on this question. They ask her, "Did he become angry after you shot him"? She says that he lunged at her, that he chased her, and that he cursed her. Well, that's a lot to do after you have done all of this, stabbed him, slit hit throat. And if it is determined that the shot was happened after he was cut up, I mean, her whole defense is out. I think the fact that the jury is asking that makes a huge difference.

POLITAN: They're skeptical.

BANFIELD: I think they are. I think they're done skeptical.

POLITAN: They're smart.

BANFIELD: When they say you're a liar, why should I believe you, it's amazing.

Let me ask if I have another break after this, another block to talk to you guys because -- we have so much breaking news, I can't do a second. But I have a lot more questions. Maybe next week. We'll get more questions from the jury, too.

Vinnie Politan, Judge Glenda Hatchett --

POLITAN: It's not over yet.

BANFIELD: But the crime, anyway.

Thank you, both.

And I want to remind viewers as well that you can watch the Jodi Arias trial in the afternoons. We run it live on HLN and CNN.com as well. And we'll have a lot more coverage.

We're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The New York judge wants Macy's and JCPenney to get on with it and make a deal over Martha Stewart. All three of those parties are mired in a lawsuit over Penney's attempt to sell Martha's housewares despite her long-standing partnership with Macy's. Now the trial is on hold, at least until early April, and that's the time the judge wants an out-of-court mediated settlement.

The 24-year-old woman who was killed by a lion in California apparently died of a broken neck and other neck injuries. That's the conclusion of a preliminary autopsy. The coroner also says that the lion at a wildcat park appears to have escaped a smaller pen in to the larger enclosure where it attacked the intern who was cleaning it. The intern's name was Dianna Hansen.

That's all the time we have for you. Thank you so much for watching, everyone. Stay tuned. AROUND THE WORLD is next.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Welcome to AROUND HE WORLD. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Suzanne Malveaux.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: You are. She's still out.

I'm Michael Holmes. Thanks for being with us.