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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Can Jodi Arias Defense Turn Trial Around?
Aired March 08, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, HLN ANCHOR: Jane Velez-Mitchell will talk about it as well. It starts right now. Stay with Jane.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, is Jodi Arias pacing in her jail cell right now as we speak? Are all those hostile, sarcastic questions from the jurors ringing in her ears? What is Jodi and her defense team going to do now to try to win back those skeptical jurors -- if they ever had them -- and keep this beautiful, accused murderess from getting the needle? We`ll debate it next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias in the fight for her life. Is she crumbling as jurors pepper her with sarcastic, even hostile questions, challenging her claim she was in a mystery fog when she knifed Travis to death?
But if jurors are so sure she`s lying, why are they now demanding to ask her still more questions. And Travis Alexander`s sexual fantasies on steamy phone sex tapes played in court, but the prosecutor says that doesn`t mean Travis was a pervert or that Jodi was a battered woman as she claims. Does Jodi`s life now lie in the hands of her domestic violence witness set to testify. We`ll debate it with our expert panel.
And victim Travis Alexander as you`ve never seen him before, full of life and fun.
JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER TRIAL: "After all of the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?"
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Lying isn`t typically something I just do.
Travis wanted to have a threesome with another woman.
STEPHENS: Answer the question as it`s stated.
ARIAS: It`s hard because I don`t think I have memory issues.
As the gun began to go off things get very foggy from there.
It all happened very fast, and it all seemed to happen all at once.
I don`t remember putting the gun in the car. I don`t remember putting the rope in the car.
STEPHENS: "How do you explain the blood on your hands and clothes and the bloody palm print on the wall?"
ARIAS: Whether he chased me or not I couldn`t say.
At one point I became aware of the fact that he was masturbating while we were having this conversation.
I don`t think we have memory issues that are any different from another average person.
STEPHENS: "Would you decide to tell the truth if you never got arrested?"
ARIAS: I really thought he was -- had intentions to kill me.
I understand that there will always be questions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, Jodi Arias fights for her life on the stand in the face of jurors who literally question her story over and over again, but is Jodi`s defense about to play their secret trump card?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.
Will it be enough to convince this skeptical jury to spare her from lethal injection or maybe even walk free?
The 32-year-old photographer is accused of stabbing her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slicing Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear and shooting him in the face. She claims, "Oh, I did it in self-defense. I`m a battered woman."
Jodi has told cops a litany of lies about Travis`s brutal death, from claiming "I wasn`t there at all" to saying two masked ninjas snuck in and killed Travis and she escaped. But it sounds like Jodi`s lies are finally catching up to her, because these jurors, who are allowed in Arizona to ask questions of her, want to know why they should believe her now. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHENS: "After all of the lies you told, why should we believe you now?"
ARIAS: Lying isn`t typically something I just do. I`m not going say that I`ve never told a lie in my life before this incident, but the lies that I`ve told in this case are -- can be tied directly back to either protecting Travis`s reputation or my involvement in his death in any way because I was very ashamed of the death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jurors asked more than 200 questions, and tonight we`re learning they`ve been scribbling down more questions, lots more questions that they still want to ask her. Are you kidding me? We`re going into day 18 of Jodi on the stand. If they`re so convinced she`s a pathological liar, why do they want to ask her more questions? Why do you want to ask anything of a pathological liar? And what will Jodi do now that she`s gotten a clue of what these jurors think of her?
Does Jodi`s life hang on the word of the upcoming domestic violence expert, who will try to convince the jury Travis abused her and sexually degraded her? Will they use Travis`s own words from beyond the grave to sell Jodi`s story?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): I`m going to tie your arms around a tree, blindfold you, and put a camera on a timer while I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. I`m going get some great shots of freaking putting (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. I mean, it`s going to be like legitimate porn.
KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Having him give you this (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and making, quote, unquote, "legitimate porn," was that something you were willing to do to please him?
ARIAS: I was willing to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got new video, by the way, of Travis, the victim, riding four-wheelers and having fun with his friends. He is no longer here to tell his side of the story. So we`re going to talk to Travis`s close friend. Did he see any warning signs around Travis and Jodi`s relationship? This is extraordinary video -- look at this -- of Travis Alexander.
Now, let`s go out to my expert panel and debate the big, big news. The jurors are still writing more questions. They`ve asked 220 questions of this defendant, and they apparently don`t believe her story based on those questions. So why on earth are they asking more questions?
Let`s start with Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: I think it`s fascinating that they`re asking these questions. And Jane, you said earlier that you think they`re skeptical of what she`s saying, and by the tone of the questions they certainly are.
Now I think they keep wanting to ask more because they want her to dig down and lie and keep lying. They`re waiting to see how long she has until she can`t lie anymore.
The bottom line is she`s conflicted herself so many times over. She`s told so many stories that they`re waiting for her to keep tripping herself up. I mean, there has to be a limit, though, where the judge at some point has to say that`s enough.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to debate that in a second.
But Brian Silver, criminal defense attorney, what do you make of the fact that they want to ask her still more questions?
BRIAN SILVER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s never going to end. And this is the problem with letting jurors ask questions. You know, it changes the entire tone of what a juror is and what a juror is supposed to do. Lawyers ask questions. Judges ask questions. Not the jury.
And here`s the other problem. It causes them to deliberate too early about the facts of this case, and by letting this happen, it`s going to go on and on and on while they take -- try to advocate...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Brian, the question I asked you -- in all respect, the question I asked you is what does it say about this case not whether or not they should ask questions. In Arizona they can ask questions. That`s a given right now. Does the fact that they have more questions for Jodi Arias offer a glimmer of hope to her?
SILVER: Absolutely not. I think it shows that they have a tremendous issue with her credibility as a witness, but here`s the glimmer of hope. I think there might be a chance that some jurors believe her and other jurors don`t, and that`s why they agreed to ask these questions. And that could be a very important point if this case is going to go in the direction of a hung jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Joey Jackson, they are not supposed to be chatting amongst themselves about this case. Is it possible, based on rolling of the eyes or whatever the nonverbal communication, that they`ve already created camps within this jury?
JOEY JACKSON, ATTORNEY: Yes, I think it`s -- I think it`s always possible, Jane, but I think the jury has to get it right. Why do they ask questions? Because they`re the trier of fact, and they want to be sure that they`re doing the right thing, which is to convict her and then, if they do, sentence her to death.
Their questions certainly show they had issues with, A, corroboration. Did anybody else see him angry at you? Could you explain whether or not you were with anybody? And at that time, where there issues then? Did you have problem with your memory? Does anybody else know about this memory problems?
And so corroboration they want. And certainly, on the incident itself, they want to know what happened. They haven`t gotten those answers. And that shows that this jury is focused.
JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I agree with Joey for once. I do. I think these jurors are begging...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You guys aren`t supposed to agree with each other. Continue on. Continue on.
SILVER: Don`t worry. I`ll comment soon enough.
LIEBERMAN: I think these jurors are begging for some semblance of truth out of Jodi Arias, and for each lie she continues to tell, they scribble down another question, because they`re so angry with her. They want the lies to keep on coming and coming.
HONOWITZ: That`s right.
LIEBERMAN: I truly thought that with their questions they`re saying to her, "Please, tell us the truth. We want to spare your life," but with each answer that continues to be a lie, it continues to anger them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I look at it from the -- let me ask Stacey Honowitz. You`ve prosecuted so many cases as a Florida prosecutor. I look at it always from the psychobabble angle. Ninety percent of communication non- verbal. We have these jurors -- on a logical level, they don`t buy their story. They`re skeptical. They`re even hostile. They`re asking really good questions.
But on an unconscious level, when you`re having this much interaction -- over 17, and it`s going on 18 days next week with this woman -- is that going to make it harder for them to say, "Yes. We want to put you to death"?
HONOWITZ: Well, I think that`s a great question, and I think most defense lawyers will tell you that the longer she stays on the stand, the more of a bond they forge with her, the harder it is to say, "Put a needle in her arm."
I think, based on the fact that she has continued to lie, continued to lie, trip herself up, I don`t think it`s going to be a problem, if they convict her of first-degree murder, of saying she`s a liar. She repeatedly lied. She lied about the murder and they`re not going have a problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi continually makes sexual references on the stand. She weaves in sex into everything. She refers to Travis being hyper-sexualized, addicted to masturbating. She claims Travis was masturbating with her on the phone the day after they broke up back in June of 2007. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: The conversation didn`t start sexual. It started sentimental. At one point I became aware of the fact that he was masturbating while we were having this conversation.
I had very low self-esteem at the time, and a part of me felt, "He still values me above other people," I guess. That he still is attracted to me, even though -- and he`s trying to win me back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go straight out to Judge DeAnn Salcido on while we look at some fascinating video of Jodi snuggling up to Travis Alexander, the man she later killed. And he doesn`t look like he`s treating her like his dirty little secret right there.
But Judge Salcido, you`re a retired criminal court judge. My question to you is when is enough enough? I mean, this woman has now been questioned on the stand about what kind of reading glasses and what -- OK, what`s the lens? I mean, who cares? Who cares about her thoughts about whether somebody is masturbating? I mean, it`s gotten to a point of, I would say, theater of the absurd. I realize this is a death-penalty case, but has the judge lost control of this trial?
DEANN SALCIDO, JUDGE: Well, the judge does have to walk a fine line here, because I think as a judge, the more serious the crime, the more each juror that is going to be asked to vote on guilt or innocence, especially with the punishment that this person is facing, they don`t want to leave them with the one nagging question that prevents them from voting what they believe the facts show.
So as a judge, I did allow jurors to ask questions, and I thought it was especially important when it was cases with a severe gravity of punishment facing the defendant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is the most severe, because she is facing the death penalty, but again, she`s been on the stand 17 days, going into 18 days. There -- there`s no light at the end of the tunnel here, people.
Is this trial out of control? We`ll debate it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias fighting for her life with every word she speaks.
ARIAS: I broke away from him and as soon as I broke -- the moment I broke away, that`s when he threatened my life. I have no clear memories after that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHENS: "Regarding shaking memory, foggy reaction, No. 1: if you -- do you always have a reaction as you described when someone corrects or challenges you?"
ARIAS: I do now. I`ve gotten a little bit better and a little bit stronger. It`s a condition that started again, in November 2007 and continued -- it continues to this day.
STEPHENS: "How is it possible you remember such details from those days if you had a foggy memory?"
ARIAS: The fog or the confusion only begins when he starts screaming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at this extraordinary video of Travis Alexander, the victim, who can no longer speak to tell his side of the story, in happier times. Courtesy of John [SIC] Denny, a good friend of Travis Alexander`s who we`re so delighted is joining us tonight.
Josh Denny, look at this video that you`ve given us. Travis Alexander having a great time, hanging out with his buddies. All of the video that we see of him -- and we`re going to show you some other video that has also been obtained by HLN that shows him with Jodi Arias, who you also, I understand, knew -- shows him as a happy, stand-up guy who isn`t -- he isn`t cursing. He isn`t doing anything that would, in any way, shape or form, indicate that he has a secret life as a pedophile or as a pervert.
What do you make of Jodi Arias`s allegations against this man who cannot speak for himself any longer?
JOSH DENNY, TRAVIS`S FRIEND: First of all, I want to thank you for bringing the positive nature of Travis to light in the public eye. Jane, I appreciate it on behalf of all Travis`s friends and friends.
And the people who knew him best, you know, all of this stuff, they would tell you as I will tell you, is just noise. It`s -- it`s distraction to keep people away from the actual fact that she savagely and brutally murdered and robbed this world of a great human being.
You know, I look at it this way: you know, when she found out that Travis was not going to take her to Cancun, which was a huge -- a huge deal within the community of all of us, I think at that moment she had planned it. She planned that she was going to go take him and murder him. And, you know, if I can`t have him no one can type of thing. She planned it out. It`s evident. I think it`s so clear by now. Everyone can see it`s evident.
And when she got there one last, desperate attempt of having sex with him and trying to lure him back into you know, hey, listen, we can make it right. And when he said, "No, this is not going happen," she -- she killed him and she murdered him.
And all of this nonsense, all of this fictitious, crazy story is something she made up so she can avoid the consequences of what she did.
And I just want to take it really quickly to the facts. You look at the pictures. You look at him in the shower. She`s fully dressed. And when he`s in his most defenseless, you know, defenseless, sitting down in the shower -- she`s fully dressed -- I think that`s the moment she drops the camera, goes for the kill. That`s why he has defense wounds on his hands, defense -- you know, stab wounds in the head as he tries to get away. She finishes in the hallway and drags him back. It -- she is just disgusting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, by the way, I just want to say that Travis and I do have something in common. We have both fought to end pigs being kept in gestation crates the size of their bodies. And I read a blog of a friend of his who said that this was one of his campaigns. And I`ve been working on that for years, to give farm animals like pigs a chance to move around. So I have a personal connection, I feel, with this victim.
Now, you mentioned the whole Cancun trip. On the stand, Jodi is claiming she didn`t even know that he was going to take Mimi Hall. Do you buy it?
DENNY: I don`t buy that for one second. She was so wrapped up in Travis and everything, following his every move. And that was a big deal, and it was a huge blow to her ego, a huge blow to the whole community that she was no longer with Travis. And so it`s -- to me, that`s the whole issue. That`s what started it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So when she says, "I didn`t know that Travis was going to take Mimi Hall on vacation. I thought he was going to take a babysitter as part of a money exchange deal, because he owed money to a friend." What do you think the prosecutor needs to do with that information in his rebuttal case to make the case that you`re saying: that she knew that Mimi Hall was the one that Travis was going to take to Cancun, not her?
DENNY: I don`t know how they`re going to do that, Jane. I just know that, you know, for a fact, you know, she murdered Travis. It wasn`t anything like she said, and I think clearly by now, everyone can see, and it`s just evident. I know you know it. Every other show that`s talking about it knows it. Anyone who knows Travis knows it, that you know, she planned to kill him. She knew it. She knew she wasn`t going Cancun. And that was the moment she said, "OK, this is it. He`s not going either." And that`s, I think, why she killed him when she did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So if you were a juror, yes or no question, would you vote for death?
DENNY: You know, I would say she`s got to be removed from the planet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. You answered my question.
We`ll be back with more on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I closed my eyes as the gun began to go off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One month filled with surprising twists.
ARIAS: I kind of felt like a prostitute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sex.
ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lies.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You have a problem telling the truth, don`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gun.
ARIAS: I turned around and pointed it at him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secret coded messages from jail.
ARIAS: "You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. Get down here ASAP. We can fix this."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Jodi`s crooked finger.
MARTINEZ: You don`t have a bent finger here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not since Casey Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have so many been so captivated by one woman`s fate.
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: The media is going to have a freaking field day with this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHENS: "Did you ever voice any concern to Travis about being uncomfortable with some of his sexual fantasies?"
ARIAS: Yes. There was one fantasy that he wanted to do, which was pulling off on the side of a freeway exit and having sex on the hood of a car, and I was -- I told him that that would be impossible. I couldn`t even think of an exit where that could be accomplished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jodi Arias claims that Travis was sexually degenerate and wanted to do all kinds of Triple-X-rated things like having sex on the hood of a car.
The video that we`ve been obtaining shows a much more G-rated Travis. We want to show you a rarely-seen YouTube video of Travis full of life and seemingly happy, and you`re going to see him doing the chicken dance with a group of friends. There he is. Take a look at him. He`s doing the chicken dance.
And it`s pretty interesting. If you look very closely, a blond woman who looks just like Jodi Arias is there running around in front of the camera, snapping away.
So, what does this tell us about Travis Alexander? Pretty G-rated stuff right there. Let`s go out to Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter for Radar Online. What do you know about this video? What do you think it tells us about Travis Alexander, the victim, who is no longer here.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADAR ONLINE: I think it shows how much Travis loved life. He`s so funny. He`s doing the chicken dance, probably the corniest dance you can ever do in the history of the world, and he`s having fun with it.
I actually think this is a terrifying video. You see Jodi -- we think it`s Jodi -- running across. And then she`s getting her camera and she`s standing there, only filming what looks like to be Travis. And this shows the depths of her obsession with him. Everyone else is dancing. Why isn`t she dancing with Travis? She`s just videotaping him. It`s really creepy, and I think it`s really sad for somebody that lost their life at her hands.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this sort of dovetails with the other video that HLN obtained of Jodi sort of sitting in -- her head`s in Travis` lap. They`re in a group of approximately 20 people, and there it is. You could see, if we drop the banner for a second, there she is, right? Sleeping. Everybody else is talking. Travis is talking, and she`s sleeping there.
A couple of things. Let`s go to Josh Denny, a friend of Travis Alexander`s. The defense said that Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret, that he didn`t show affection towards her in public, that he used her for sex behind closed doors and then basically gave her the cold shoulder in public. But there you see she`s sitting, she`s got her head in his lap, basically, in front of a group of people.
DENNY: Yes. That -- that video should be shown in the courtroom, because that`s completely contradicting what Jodi`s saying or what she`s alleging. Everything that comes out of her mouth is -- is some kind of fictitious fairytale nightmare, I like to call it, because you can`t believe anything she said. Anything she said was trying to, you know, create this -- back up this story that she made up.
And look, right there. You can see it. There`s the affection. There`s a lot more people in that room you can just see on the video. There`s -- the room`s filled with people. And there he is, showing as much affection as you can possibly show somebody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side, we`re going to debate it. Why don`t the prosecutors show a video like this? There are so many people who`ve come on our show who have said, "Oh, she was obsessed with him." We haven`t heard that in the courtroom to the extent that we`ve heard it on our show. Why is there a disconnect? Why aren`t jurors getting the whole story? We`ll debate it on the other side.
Will it be life or death for Jodi Arias? More debate on the other side.
Then at 8, Nancy with her take on the week that was in the Arias trial. "NANCY GRACE MYSTERIES," top of the hour right here on HLN.
More debate on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: Travis and his sex and his correlation to anger and the de- stressing. You made a comment that this was code in your relationship. De-stress was like a code, right?
ARIAS: Right.
NURMI: OK.
ARIAS: De-stressing means to relieve stress in any form through sex. Whatever meant his climax, because that would help him relax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING JUDGE: Did you enjoy having sex with Travis?
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: For the most part, yes, I did very much.
He cared about my pleasure, as well.
If there was anything I was uncomfortable, having sex on the hood of a car, and little red riding hood fantasies that it would involve sex.
You`re bad. You make me so (inaudible)
I love Travis victor Alexander so completely that I don`t know any other way to be.
KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Would it be fair to say that he had an all-access pass to your body?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing missing here was the rabbit in the pot.
ARIAS: I made a lot of bad decisions when it came to Travis.
If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.
I just remember he had his hands around my neck and he was banging my head on the carpet.
NURMI: So you had sex behind closed doors and he beat you behind closed doors.
STEPHENS: Did he force you to do things you didn`t want to do?
ARIAS: He didn`t physically force me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Jodi Arias`s defense is that she`s a battered woman, that she was Travis Alexander`s dirty little secret, but take a look at this video. It shows her sleeping on Travis` lap or lounging while he talks in front of a group that`s been described as about 20 people. Travis` friend who is joining us tonight says, well, the prosecution should play this video in court.
Let`s debate it. Starting with Stacey Honowitz, why is it that videos like this aren`t played in court? Time after time people come on our show and say things that the jury never gets to hear. She was obsessed. When I was a waitress with her she`d drive 1,000 miles at the drop of a dime to see him -- yada, yada, yada. The jurors are not hearing that.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Hey, listen, Jane, there`s still a rebuttal case to come. The cards are not going to be all dealt in the very beginning. What this prosecutor is doing is getting all of the lies out of her in one fell swoop. Time after time, knocking away, knocking away and when she lies and it`s all in front of the jury, bam, there comes the rebuttal case when where they can rebut it by showing these videos, by having people come on and say that she was obsessed.
So this is all (inaudible) for a rebuttal case that we will probably see.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ll see. Brian Silber for the defense.
BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Actually, it`s a very simple reason. The rules of evidence do not allow the admission of character evidence. It`s a flat rule, everybody knows this. For example, let`s turn the tables around. Why wouldn`t the defense be able to play the song she sang in jail and say look, she`s a sweet little girl and she`s got a great voice. She`s not capable of murder.
Or how about in the case where a priest rapes a child? He gives sermons and he`s a religious figure. Character evidence of this type has nothing to do with our case and it doesn`t tell us how he acted in private.
HONOWITZ: It absolutely does.
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Unless -- unless --
HONOWITZ: On a rebuttal level it does.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Joey.
JACKSON: Ok. Unless you open the door.
SILBER: No way.
JACKSON: Excuse me, if you open the door and put your character at issue, then, of course, the prosecution is allowed to rebut your claims of who you say you are. So in this case, I would argue she put the character at issue. She put the issue about he doesn`t show affection in public.
HONOWITZ: Correct.
JACKSON: Since she put it out there the prosecution is allowed to refute it. Simple.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Leiberman.
SILBER: That`s not correct. And that`s not true.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: And they touched on it.
HONOWITZ: She did put her character in evidence. She talked about --
(CROSSTALK)
HONOWITZ: She put her character in evidence from day one of being on the stand.
LEIBERMAN: Yes, she absolutely did. The whole case is about her character.
HONOWITZ: Correct.
LEIBERMAN: But let me say something about the domestic violence experts that are upcoming, Jane. And the reason why I don`t think they`re going to be effective is that their testimony is based on Jodi`s story.
JACKSON: Exactly.
LEIBERMAN: In other words, they`re going to analyze Jodi`s story and pull out the buzz words, the scared and the afraid and the controlling. The problem is, though, if you don`t believe as a juror any of Jodi`s story then you`re certainly not going to believe any of the domestic violence experts interpreting that story because you don`t believe the basis in the first place. And I think that needs to be said.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Brian Silber, I think what they`re going to do is say Jodi didn`t write anything about the abuse down in her journal because that`s what battered women do. They don`t write anything. She didn`t call 911 because battered women don`t call 911. She didn`t tell anybody because that`s -- I mean there`s -- just like Jodi has an answer for everything -- go ahead.
SILBERM: That`s exactly correct. We`ve got to remember one very important thing. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. All the defense has to do is raise the question. And if there is any reasonable doubt here about her position in this relationship and if she was a battered woman they cannot convict. And that`s what this comes down to and that`s what they`re building on.
HONOWITZ: That`s in every case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s talk --
(CROSSTALK)
SILBER: Of course, it`s in every case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- they can`t get away from sex in this case. Jodi has emphasized she did almost anything sexually to please Travis Alexander. She told her lawyer she even agreed to do the now infamous naked photo shoot that occurred right before she killed him, she says, just to make him happy.
I warn you, these are graphic sexual photos. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: You had posed for some pictures for Mr. Alexander. Are you happy there?
ARIAS: I was uncomfortable.
NURMI: Why were you posing for that picture?
ARIAS: It was something he`d been wanting to do for a long time. He had a new camera, and he was excited about it. It was closed doors. It was private, and he said we could delete them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Josh Denne, you`re a friend of Travis Alexander, the victim who is not here to explain this, but it certainly is not in keeping, taking these photos and engaging in some of the activities that had been documented with the phone sex with his Mormon practices. Did he have, in essence, a double life? Listen, a lot of people do. Those of us who are not hypocrites -- I`m a hypocrite, I think anybody who is alive is a hypocrite to a certain degree.
But were you shocked at all by the nature of some of these phone sex calls, et cetera?
JOSH DENNE, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I don`t know if I was shocked by them. It was definitely out of character from what I knew of Travis. The running joke was he was the 30-year-old virgin and so I had not experienced anything like that with Travis. I imagine that Jodi introduced a lot of the stuff to him and it`s addictive. I mean, especially as a guy who has not had sexual experiences like Travis hadn`t. And now he`s plunged in the whole world of sex that`s new to him and because of his faith, I believe he was hiding it and he was ashamed of it.
He was keeping it kind of quiet and between just him and her. So, you know, it`s not so shocking being a man. I can definitely relate and understand that. I am glad that my conversations with my wife are even when I was dating her before we were married aren`t on display for everyone to hear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, exactly. Who amongst us would want to have a sexual phone call played? Who amongst us if every single one of our texts were displayed would come out smelling like a rose?
More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHENS: After all of the lies you told, why should we believe you now?
ARIAS: Lying isn`t typically something I just do. I`m not going to say that I`ve never told a lie in my life before this incident, but the lies that I`ve told in this case are -- can be tied directly back to either protecting Travis` reputation or my involvement in his death in any way because I was very ashamed of the death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re all over the Jodi Arias case but we`re also tracking this case. Police in Colorado are searching for three beautiful young women all between the ages of 17 and 22 and all aspiring models. They have modeling profiles online and two of them used the same site. Could there be a connection?
We`re digging into this and we`ll bring you the very latest on Monday along with the Jodi Arias trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHENS: You said you were sick to your stomach when you saw Travis with child pictures. So why did you sleep with him again?
ARIAS: Well, after throwing up a few times that day, I wanted to talk to him and give him a chance to explain what was going on. He gave me a tearful explanation, and I felt more sympathetic toward him than disgusted at that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi`s kept a lot of journal, but the prosecutor points out she never wrote about this alleged pedophilia on the part of Travis Alexander in her journals. Jodi said well, that`s because of my belief in the law of attraction something that became a sensation from the movie "The Secret", I don`t know if you remember this movie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMIS: "The Secret" was that something that you and Travis, this movie, documentary as you call it, is that something you and Travis watched together or tried to adhere to together?
ARIAS: Yes. He introduced me to the movie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can have whatever it is that we choose no matter how big it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the great secret.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t care if you`re an Indian, if you`re an Australian, New Zealand, Stockholm, London, Toronto or New York, we`re all working with one power. One love. It`s attraction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter RadarOnline what on earth does "The Secret" have to do with Jodi Arias` allegations that Travis Alexander was a pedophile, but she didn`t write that in her journal even though she wrote about everything else under the sun?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: What she`s saying is the rules of the secret are you don`t put negative thoughts out into the universe because then they`ll come back to you so you only put positive things out there. So you would never write things like "Travis is a pedophile" because that would in turn I suppose have something negative back on you, pedophiles back on you.
But Jodi is really misinterpreting "The Secret". It`s really about everything that happens and you put it out there and you put a positive spin on something and then good things will happen back to you. I think this is just an excuse and it`s funny that she remembers "The Secret" so perfectly and yet the Book of Mormon of that she says she read a chapter of every single day, she can`t remember exactly what chastity is about. I think this is just another excuse of Jodi`s.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let`s go to that possible lie. Let`s debate it.
Brian Silber, you`re on the defense side and we`re debating this and we have both sides represented. Do you really buy that she didn`t write about this alleged pedophilia in her diary because she saw something called "The Secret" that says like attracts like or whatever?
SILBER: Listen, this is an example of this prosecutor muddying his waters. He`s got the easiest case to win in the history of American justice, you know, and he`s asking her about this stupid details? Who really cares? Her diary is not a videotape of her life.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very quickly, Jon Leiberman.
LEIBERMAN: The jury cares. The jury cares.
SILBER: It`s completely irrelevant. It doesn`t matter to the issues in this case.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know what, we`re going to take a brief break and then everybody gets a chance to talk on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/Jane. Osa, how are you, darling? And Bully, you`re not a bully; yes, you`re a beauty. Tugboat is proud. He`s got his bandanna and his cowboy hat. We love you, Tugboat. And abbey is not impressed with any of this. She`s yawning. I am just way to important for this conversation. We love you, though.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM: I want to give you a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) too.
ARIAS: What`s that?
NURMI: Did you know what it was he was talking about?
ARIAS: No, I didn`t know what that term meant.
TRAVIS: Were I blow my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) right. Just like quarter inch inside your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know, that is some of the very sexually explicit phone sex call that was played in this case and sex is such a wild card.
I want to debate very quickly with our expert panel. Will sex be the wild card in this case? The one factor that we can`t really judge how it`s going to impact the jurors? And could it muddy up this victim just enough to make them say even though we don`t buy her story we`re not going to kill her because of these very salacious sex tapes?
I`ll start with Brian Silver, the defense.
SILBER: Well, I think they`re going to convict her on the evidentiary phase right now because even if you believe her story that she was somewhat of a battered woman and had these sexual issues, she can`t explain why she slit his throat after shooting him in the face. That doesn`t jive with self-defense.
However, I think you`re very on point when it comes to the penalty phase because that may be an issue about why we shouldn`t kill her and take this to the ultimate sanction. And that`s where I think the case is going.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman?
LEIBERMAN: Well, I mean look, I think the sex is a salacious sideshow. It`s fun for us to talk about, but this is a murder case. And I think that in closing you`re going to see Mr. Martinez take every detail that he has now drawn out of this case and he`s going to methodically go through each contradiction, each lie, and he`s going to tell the jury, look, this isn`t a case about sex. This isn`t a case about Jodi Arias being a victim. Travis Alexander was the victim of a premeditated murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Joey Jackson, a lot of these jurors are retired; they had to ask for the definition of skank because they didn`t know that. So it gives you an idea of where their heads are at. Could they be just so horrified by all the salacious sex?
JACKSON: Absolutely not. I think this jury is focused, they get it. It`s evident in their questions Jane, that they do. I think the defendant brought up this whole issue of sex. It`s not credible. It`s not believable. It will have no traction and she`ll be convicted.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to tell you, on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about a subject that is very near and dear to Travis Alexander`s heart. We`re going to be talking about animals, and he loved animals. He had a dog, Napoleon, and he also cared about farm animals. Stay right there in honor of Travis Alexander next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, little Rico. Guess what? Tonight our "Animal Investigations Unit" is talking animals and food and we have breaking news. The global meatless Monday trend has hit California schools.
Now every Monday more than 600,000 Los Angeles public school kids are getting vegetarian meals in their school cafeterias. That means kids are learning how to eat healthy, balanced meals filled with vegetables and fruit which are lower in calories and fat.
Full disclosure, I`m a vegan. That means I don`t eat meat or dairy. Instead I eat vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains. A big reason is because of my health, I want to stay healthy. And also because I`ve always struggled with my weight and eating this way helps a lot.
We all know obesity has skyrocketed. Today more than one-third of America`s children and adolescents are overweight or obese. There`s growing scientific evidence that a diet rich in vegetables and fruits can reduce the risk of obesity.
Rico, this is really good news, also, for millions of animals like these highly intelligent pigs that Travis Alexander cared about and it was in a blog of pigs who are kept in gestation crates, unable to even turn around. Did you know that nine billion animals that are very much like dogs, we`re talking about pigs and cows and lambs and chickens are raised and killed for food in factory farms every year in this country?
Straight out to Paul Shapiro from the Humane Society of the United States; Paul, what starts in Los Angeles often spreads to the rest of the country. L.A. schools serve 650,000 meals every day. One meatless Monday can save thousands of animals and lower kids` cholesterol and calorie intake, also helps the environment.
After decades of increasing meat consumption, do you think things are finally changing and, if so, why?
PAUL SHAPIRO, HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES: Absolutely, Jane. Americans are eating less and less meat and that`s better for us. It`s better for the planet and, as you know, it`s certainly better for animals. Simply by eating more plants and by eating fewer animals each one of us can take a stand in favor of a healthier, more humane world every time we sit down to eat, and that`s why the Humane Society of the U.S. is applauding the L.A. school system for implementing its forward thinking meatless Monday program.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a new study by the European perspective investigation into cancer and nutrition found people who eat 5.5 or more, 5.5 ounces or more of processed meats daily are 44 percent more likely to die of causes like cancer and heart disease. Another new study published in the "New England Journal of Medicine" found a Mediterranean diet which is full of fruits and vegetables and high in healthy fats like olive oil and nuts can reduce the incidents of major cardiovascular problems.
In fact, they had to end the study early because the results in favor of a plant-based diet were so overwhelming scientists decided it was unethical to continue on the alternate test group. What does that tell you, Paul?
SHAPIRO: Jane, it tells me that eating meatless meals is certainly better for us but, also one of the reasons meatless Monday is perhaps the most popular global food movement is because animal agriculture is a leading cause of global climate change. And so if we want to do better for our warming world and we want to do better for our widening waists, eating more delicious, healthy vegetarian foods is definitely one way to go about doing it.
Really Meatless Monday, it`s a win-win for everybody: for the planet, for our health and, of course, for animals.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, like I said, we`ve been talking about Travis Alexander, the victim here, who can no longer speak on behalf of the animals but he loved dogs. He had a little dog. And he also cared -- a friend wrote in a blog -- about farm animals.
That`s a growing movement, isn`t it, Paul, briefly?
SHAPIRO: Indeed. More and more people are concerned about our barbaric treatment of animals on factory farms and in slaughter plants and because of that they`re looking to campaigns like Meatless Mondays to make a difference.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Paul Shapiro. We can do it together.
Nancy next.
END
