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Barbara Walters Retiring; Aurora Gunman Seeks to Avoid Death Penalty

Aired March 28, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, when locusts invade.

And you will hear from the guy who illegally climbed the Great Pyramid to take these pictures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin with breaking news here, because in the 1960s, this woman on the left-hand side of your screen paved the way for women reporting serious news. Now Barbara Walters is reportedly calling it quits. "The New York Times" is now reporting that the 83-year-old host of ABC's "The View" has just one more year on our screens. She's set to retire in May of next year.

Joining me now, Bill Carter with "The New York Times."

Bill, I know you -- will just confirm this here. The big question I have off the top of my head is, why now?

BILL CARTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, I think Barbara's, obviously, feeling like this is a good time. She's 83. She had some health problems this year. This gives her a full year to kind of do a lot of retrospectives. She has an incredible career to go over, so I think this gives an opportunity to do sort of a farewell tour, and wrap up her career.

BALDWIN: You mentioned -- I want to get to of course her legacy, but you mentioned her health problems. We know recently, she talked about her chicken pox that she had. She took a pretty tough fall. Do either of those, or either of those for health factoring into the timing of this decision, do you know?

CARTER: Well, I don't know for sure, but I would imagine it has to be a factor.

Two years ago she also had heart bypass surgery, so she's obviously a person who's getting up in years and is looking for a way to slow down probably a little bit. Listen, Barbara's always been incredibly energetic, and aggressive, and always wants to get the best story. Maybe she feels like if she can't do that all the time it's best for her to step aside.

BALDWIN: As we mentioned, she's been at this just for quite a while, for a number of decades. She's an idol of mine, anyone really, any female journalist. She's a crusader, and she's changed the tides for women in media. Talk to me about just her legacy.

CARTER: Well, it's more than 50 years. It's more than half a century.

BALDWIN: Wow.

CARTER: We're talking about someone who's been on television since 1962 and been through all the incredible, not just changes in the media, but in the political realm, because she's interviewed, you know, virtually every world leader for that period from, you know, the famous, the presidents, to the infamous, you know, Moammar Gadhafi.

BALDWIN: Wow.

CARTER: She's done everyone you can imagine. That's been her calling card. She's been this, you know, ace interviewer, and she has set a standard for women in journalism. She was the first woman to co-host "The Today Show," she was the first woman to co-anchor an evening newscast, and she basically blazed the path for women in journalism.

BALDWIN: Bill Carter, do me a favor and just stand by, as we're getting more information.

I want to bring in Nischelle Turner, who is our entertainment correspondent there in L.A., because, Nischelle, I also then think about Barbara Walters on "The View." We know the news that Joy Behar was retiring, and there were rumors, but Barbara Walters herself sort of quashed it, that Elisabeth Hasselbeck was leaving, but when you think about all these women, where does "The View" stand?

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good question. "The View" has been kind of a stalwart of daytime television over the past decade-and-a-half and there have been many people that speculate what would happen with the show, because the ratings have gone down just a bit. It's still a very popular and successful show.

They have gone down a little bit. So, people are wondering with the announcement that Joy is leaving and now the speculation something could be going on with Elisabeth, what would happen to the show? If indeed Barbara Walters will be retiring in May of 2014, this could be a sign she's trying to right the ship so she can leave it for some years to pass.

It is getting a little bit of push now from shows for "The Talk" and shows like "The Chew," other shows that are trying to mirror the success of "The View." So it's interesting to see what will happen to the show, but we do know it's in for a major overall because possibly two of its primary figures will be leaving.

BALDWIN: Bill Carter, back to you as we talk about "The View," I'm just thinking of ABC News in general. They lost two superstars actually to us, Jake Tapper and Chris Cuomo, and now we also have Barbara Walters and her news, yet at the same time, you have "Good Morning America" doing gangbusters in the morning. Where does ABC go? CARTER: Right.

She's basically backed away from ABC in the last two years. She pulled out of "20/20" several years ago, and has done a few specials and interviews, but she's clearly not the bulwark of that network that she has been. She's much more important on "The View" I think because she also owns that show and is the really guiding light of that show. I think you do have to think where are they going to go without her and several of the other cast members?

But of course, it is also a time for change. You have to keep those things fresh. I think she would agree with that, and she's a good producer for that show, too.

BALDWIN: Bill, you talk about how she's really known for her interviews, both the famous and the infamous.

Do you think she will be, you know, more remembered for that tough interviewing style or for more the celebrities that we have seen her talk to recently?

CARTER: I think this is interesting, because she went back and forth between doing, you know, celebrities, especially her Oscar specials, which were extremely highly rated, and she interviewed basically everybody you could think of in the show business world, but she -- if you ever saw Barbara's apartment or office, the photos she has on the wall were mainly the world leaders, the Sadats and people like that, that she interviewed at the top of the news, when they were really prominent.

She was right in the middle of that and was highly skilled doing that, although her interview style was never known for being aggressive. It was much more gentle and kind of emotional, and she could touch people and pull things out of them. That's why I think she was famous, because she would ask a question that was sort of unexpected and get kind of unexpected answers.

BALDWIN: She would get you. She would get the good answers.

Bill Carter, thank you so much, confirming the retiring of the Barbara Walters for May of next year. And, Nischelle Turner, I thank you both so much.

And now let me move on to some new information we learned today with regard to the tragedy in Newtown. It took less than five minutes last December 14 for mass murderer Adam Lanza to kill 20 first graders and six adults inside those classrooms in Newtown, Connecticut.

A state's attorney is out today with new information on the horrifying slayings at Sandy Hook Elementary School. According to this new information, police at the scene recovered 154 spent shell casings, nine 30-round magazines.

They also found an arsenal at the home that Adam Lanza shared with his mother, whom he killed that morning with a gunshot to her head. Weapons found at the home included 1,600 rounds of ammunition, rifles, knives, even samurai swords.

Families of some of the Sandy Hook victims are appearing today for the very first time in a TV ad for new gun legislation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We dropped Jesse off in the morning, December 14. He gave me a hug and a kiss and said, I love you, dad, and I love mom, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our daughter Grace was 7 years old. She couldn't wait to go to school. She would skip down the driveway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My sister loved teaching at Sandy Hook.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: At the White House today, there he was, an impatient President Obama saying, shame on us, his quote, if Congress can't bring itself to pass new gun laws. The president says he expects a vote in the next couple of weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ninety percent support background checks that will keep criminals and people who have been found to be a danger of themselves or others from buying a gun. More than 80 percent of Republicans agree.

More than 80 percent of gun owners agree. Think about that. How often do 90 percent of Americans agree on anything?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper.

Jake, I know you're talking on your show on "THE LEAD" this afternoon with one of the Sandy Hook dads, Neil Heslin, so we will look forward to that.

But we know the gun control effort, it is focused right now on the Senate. Even without an assault weapons ban, it will be a tough sell, because what about the House? We all know it's controlled by Republicans.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That's exactly right. The Senate will probably take the up legislation the week of April 8, maybe the week after, and there will probably be some compromise legislation when it comes to background checks, but then the real hurdle, as you mentioned, is the House of Representatives.

I think what's going to be key for Speaker Boehner is what will -- assuming the gun legislation passes in the Senate, what is the margin of victory, how bipartisan is it? It will be more difficult for John Boehner to refuse to bring up the bill if it is a big victory, if it's a very bipartisan victory for this gun control legislation in the Senate.

That's why senators are trying to achieve a compromise to get even more Republican votes, not just so that they can pass it, but so that they can pass it and send a message to the House, you need to at least vote on this legislation. That's going to be the challenge.

BALDWIN: Jake Tapper, thank you.

Again, just a reminder for all of us to watch "THE LEAD" because you're going to have this father, Neil Heslin, on your show live to react to today's news. Again, that's right after this show, 4:00 Eastern. Jake, we will see you at the top of the hour.

TAPPER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Meantime, as we mentioned, new information here on Adam Lanza's arsenal. I ran through some of the numbers -- again, 154 spent shellings found at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Police found nine magazines capable of holding up to 30 bullet rounds each.

At the Lanza home, they found 1,600 rounds of ammo, rifles, samurai swords, but they also found an NRA certificate, NRA, National Rifle Association, inscribed with Adam Lanza's name.

With us now from Los Angeles is David Swanson. He is a licensed Clinical Psychologist.

David, we have talked about Adam Lanza before. You have described him as narcissistic, psychopathic, and clearly he was troubled, he was living at home with his mom. We know she is a gun enthusiast. They have this arsenal spread through the house. This is, obviously, not a good situation.

DAVID SWANSON, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It's not. You know, the more details we get, the more senseless this whole thing appears. Last time we talked, we talked about the spreadsheet.

You know, he's said to have had autism, Asperger's. This has never been connected to any sort of outburst like this. However, this is an age range, 18 to 24, where we see people for the first time having a psychotic break, where they will go after people violently. This is unpredictable.

When I look at all these guns in the house and I see all the ammunition and I hear about the clips and the spreadsheet, what I'm thinking is this was a kid who most likely, again, speculation, but sat in front of video games all day, had a lot of time on his hands, snapped, and nobody was there to see the signs.

Nobody was there at all. When we start talking about all this gun debate back and forth, me as a psychologist, I don't think it's as easy as blaming it on a video game, blaming it on the guns. I'm not quite sure why we don't do screenings for people with mental health. If you want to apply for a gun or you have somebody in your house who mentally is capable of snapping like this, why don't we screen for that? Stop pointing fingers. (CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I know and I hear you and a lot of people raise the exact same issues, but we talk about gun owners and we talk about very responsible gun owners. In this case, you hear about this mother, it sounds as though the mother was, but then you realize she wasn't at least in the case of her son.

SWANSON: I don't know how responsible she actually was. I don't know that she actually got the bigger picture of what was going on for this child. There's no way to explain how a kid can have a safe in his room full of guns, how a kid could have all this ammunition, how all this stuff is coming out right now, which is so disturbing, for all of it, how does that go overlooked?

I'm not trying to place the blame on anyone, but what I am saying is right now in our country there's a huge debate. It's about your right to bear arms as opposed to assault weapons bans and all this stuff. Listen, all of these incidents have to do with a mental health break, whether it was sociopathic or a psychotic break.

BALDWIN: Is there anything specifically that can trigger this kind of break or it just happens and you can't anticipate it?

SWANSON: It is in our wiring. It is in our DNA.

All of these issues basically come from a brain dysfunction, a chemical imbalance. We're wired for this. And usually what we figure out is around 18 to 24, this is where the first typical break happens. For those who are psychotic, it becomes very dangerous.

On the other hand, you have these sociopathic kids who don't have a regard for other feelings, who do kind of get involved with breaking rules, fire setting, hurting animals. You will see those symptoms very early on. In all of these cases, though, there's a lot we can do to prevent things like this from happening.

BALDWIN: There he was, reloading those magazines six times, going from classroom to classroom, doing this -- wreaking this horror in less than five minutes. David Swanson...

SWANSON: It's terrible.

BALDWIN: It's horrendous. Thank you.

SWANSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: College campuses where students go to further their education, get ready for a career, we all know, though, you get a little bit more than just going to class. At Boston College, a group of students started this program to educate others about safe sex, even handing out condoms in dorm rooms. For their efforts, the school has threatened to take the students to court. "On the Case" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Who can forget the terror bombing during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta? Remember that blast there at the Olympic Park? That man convicted in the blast is on a hunger strike at Colorado's supermax prison.

Olympic Park bomber Eric Robert Rudolph is protesting his move to a block in his prison for troublemakers and mentally ill prisoners. In letters to his lawyer and a Web site that publishes his writings, Rudolph claims he's being singled out for retaliation for his recent memoirs and for his political views.

Rudolph complains -- quote -- "When a person is sentenced to the supermax, he's never heard from again, or at least that is the designed purpose of this place."

Rudolph confessed to the Olympic Park bombing and two abortion clinic bombings.

The man accused of opening fire in a Colorado movie theater, killing 12 and injuring more than 50, this man, James Holmes, he doesn't want to die. The 25-year-old suspect has offered to plead guilty to that mass shooting in Aurora to avoid the death penalty. That means he would spend the rest of his life behind bars with no chance for parole.

Here's the rub. Prosecutors haven't accepted his offer yet, but if they do, the case could be resolved in four days from now at Holmes' next hearing on the 1st of April.

I want to talk about this "On the Case here" with Sunny Hostin and HLN "Evening Express" anchor Ryan Smith.

So, Sunny, let me just begin with you. What are the chances that his offer, this guilty plea, could be accepted?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's interesting.

The prosecution's in a strange posture, because it's usually the prosecution that makes the plea offer, right, because it's the government bringing the charges, and so I would suggest or I suspect that the government is trying to figure out two things, whether or not an insanity defense would be successful, and whether or not to seek the death penalty, because we know under our Constitution, under our laws, we don't execute, you know, mentally insane people.

We just don't do that. And so they need to make the determination as to whether or not they are going to seek the death penalty, and if they are not going to seek the death penalty, they would clearly let him plead straight up to the indictment, which would be what he's offering to do.

I think it's a pretty difficult place for a prosecutor to be in, because you are generally making the offer. You're not receiving an offer.

BALDWIN: So in this case, they are not. It's, you know, Holmes here and his team. But again, as Sunny pointed out, insanity means you don't get death if that's what they decide to plead.

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Yes, this is what it becomes so tough. Sunny's exactly right.

You have think about this when you think of the legal case. There are no slam dunks. You might look at the situation and say, yes, this is absolutely going to be a conviction, but it seems to me the defense is preparing a mental health defense, they are working on that now, so if there is no plea, they will go to court with that.

If people see him in court, and they say you know what, at the time of the crime he seemed to be so mentally unstable, he couldn't understand what he was doing, then you're not going to put him behind bars. That's what they are weighing here. Not only that. They also have to include the family members.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That's the thing. That's what I wanted to ask you about and not a lot of people realize, that the victims' family members, they have a say in all this.

SMITH: And you might think, hey, you put him to death and the families are happy.

No, a death penalty trial is a very long, arduous process. And then even in that situation, if somebody is convicted, it takes years for people to be put to death. That can be a problem for a lot of family members who are still struggling to deal with the situation.

Some of them might say, yes, I prefer life behind bars, because it's over, it's done with, he stays behind bars, and that part goes away.

BALDWIN: We will watch and see what happens in the next couple days.

I want to move on here, because the other case we're talking about condoms on college campus. Some Boston College officials, they are telling the student group to quit giving out condoms or risk punishment from the university. Administrators say the condom handout doesn't fit with the private Catholic school's values. Now you have the ACLU getting involved.

They say students' rights may have been violated. I see you shaking your head. Let me give Sunny the first take at this.

What do you think. Have students done anything wrong?

HOSTIN: I have been giggling about this case since hearing about it yesterday.

(LAUGHTER)

HOSTIN: Listen, I think that private institutions have a right to set their policies, and the issue here is that this student group, which is not recognized by Boston College, which is a Jesuit college, this student group is passing out condoms in the dorm rooms 17 locations on campus, and so if they are doing it somewhere else, then that's fine.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: But don't we want our private institutions to be able to, you know, have the policies that are in line with the beliefs of the institution? So I don't know. I don't know that the students have like strong legal footing here. They may want their condoms, but I don't think they can get them on campus.

BALDWIN: Not on campus.

Ten seconds, do you agree?

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: I'm going to you a quick -- B.U. had a case like this involving somebody putting up an anti-apartheid poster back in the '80s, and they lost it on the basis they were violating somebody's free speech.

That's a private institution. Maybe there's some give in here, but generally speaking, I got to agree with Sunny. It's a difficult situation, especially with a private institution.

HOSTIN: You're agreeing with me, Ryan?

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: There's a little...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Ryan Smith and Sunny Hostin, thanks, guys, so much "On the Case" with me today.

Let me move on, because this is a view so exclusive, it's downright illegal. This is quite a story. This is a vantage point from one of the seven wonders of the world, a unique picture from the top one of the Egyptian Pyramids. Coming up next, hear from the people who scaled illegally this Pyramid to take these amazing pictures. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Each year about three million tourists visit the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. For most, you go to witness one of the seven wonders of the world, but for a group of Russian photographers, this is all about adventure. They climbed the Pyramid illegally to get quite the unique perspective.

And as Jonathan Mann reports, the results are nothing short of stunning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a view so exclusive, it's illegal, standing atop Egypt's Great Pyramid of Giza, one of seven ancient wonders of the world.

These spectacular photos were shot by a group of daredevil Russian photographers. One of them is Vitaly Raskalov. His English is a little limited, but he did speak with us via Skype from St. Petersburg.

VITALY RASKALOV, PHOTOGRAPHER: We saw the old photographs of the Pyramids and decided to climb on it.

MANN: Climbing the Great Pyramid is strictly off-limits. Raskalov and his friends made their unauthorized ascent at sunset, more than 450 feet to the top, where they shot some amazing aerial shots of the Pyramids, the Sphinx, and the surrounding deserts and then escaped unnoticed.

One of Raskalov's colleague told CNN.com, "We were very lucky not to get caught. We would have been in serious trouble if we did. That's why I would like to apologize for this ascension. We didn't want to insult anyone. We were just following the dream."

It's not the first time the group has followed the dream, climbing to very high places to snap photos. Last year, Raskalov and several friends scaled the 1,000-foot-height Russky Island Bridge, where she shot this vertigo-inducing video. Russian authorities briefly detained him once he climbed down. Raskalov says he has no plans to quit.

RASKALOV: No, it for me just cool.

MANN: For his next stunt, Raskalov says he's planning a trip to the Middle East. He says Israel or perhaps Syria.

Jonathan Mann, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Crazy. Beautiful, but crazy.

Coming up next, news on everything and everyone, including actress Ashley Judd deciding if she will take a turn and run for U.S. Senate.

Also, a judge rules on the proposal to create the world's largest airline. And we're talking Google again. Google Maps takes you to the streets of Fukushima. And a doctor is arrested and accused of killing her own patients -- the power block coming at you next.

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