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Jodi`s Trial Live

Aired April 2, 2013 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Good evening, everybody.

My co-host tonight, Mark Eiglarsh.

I love what Nancy was just saying there. The anti-Arias coalition, I guess we`re amongst those. Speaking about the inner beauty of Travis, which she evidently she intended to elicit from him with a knife. We`re going to get right back to the trial in just a second a second.

You don`t want to miss any of this trial, but first I`ve got breaking news. This is never before seen police interrogation video. And, Mark, check this out, It`s Jodi`s parents, Sandra and William, they are be being interviewed by detective Esteban Flores.

And now we`re going to get back to the trial. But, first, I want to get this video out there. Take a look at this. This is really striking. We`re all going to watch together. Let`s get to it.



INTERROGATOR: How are you doing? Are you doing OK?

SANDRA ARIAS, JODI`S MOM: My God, no. I feel like I`m going to puke.

INTERROGATOR: He was killed back on June 4th. And we have a lot of evidence to kind of put her there. And she`s not willing to explain any of it. She won`t talk to me.

SANDRA ARIAS: I talked to her. And she told me she was going to Utah. And she came back. And she was fine.

In fact, she said I spent a lot of time with some friends in Utah and I wanted to stay there, because they were going four-wheeling, but I had to come back and work.

So how could somebody, you say she did this, how could she come back and just be normal?

INTERROGATOR: I don`t know.

SANDRA ARIAS: And Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time. I had quite a few of her friends call me and tell me that I need to get her some help. One called me in the middle of the night and tell me that she needed help. Jodi would call me -- we don`t have a good relationship, me and Jodi.


PINSKY: There you go, Mark. She was freaking out in the middle of the night, and she needed help. The friends are reaching out to the parents. They were concerned about her.

This is part of the unraveling of Jodi Arias. It ended up in her acting out murderously. And here`s her own mom saying, how can somebody be like that and seem so normal after they just killed somebody? Her own mom.

We`re going to keep poring over that footage. We`ve got more interrogation tape with the dad involved. I need to know if he asked whether or not there was any physical violence in the home. What other -- more facts might come out of that interview. We`re going to go through that while you all watch the trial.

We`re going to get right back to the trial now. We`re going to pick up where you last saw it. You haven`t missed a minute, and you won`t. And then after the trial, when we push the play button, we`re going to come back. We`ve got a lot of show ahead. So, let`s play the trial right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does she explain why Mr. Alexander feels that way?

WITNESS: She, she is --


JUDGE: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How and why does she explain Mr. Alexander feeling this way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Hearsay.

JUDGE: Overruled.

WITNESS: She says that he believes that he has to hide relationships from her in the way he hid relationships from Ms. Reid (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And now this is, now we`re talking, we`re in October of 2007. So they`ve had their official breakup in June, right?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But have, in your review of the conversations that they have and the contact they have, does it appear like they`re still having a relationship?

WITNESS: Yes, it does.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And what does Ms. Arias think about being compared to Ms. Reid?

WITNESS: She thinks it`s ridiculous. That she`s not, show`s not like Ms. Reid. And that she`s delusional if he thinks that. Actually, on crack is, I think, her wording.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And in your review of her journal entries, you, well, you said, you said that Ms. Reid was characterized as being jealous.

WITNESS: I believe that`s what Ms. Arias told me, jealous, crazy, that she was a crazy, kind of crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And in reviewing the journal entries, did you see any notions of jealousy coming from Jodi?

WITNESS: No, I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you see notions of jealousy coming from Mr. Alexander?

WITNESS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And have we talked about some of those issues already?

WITNESS: Yes, we have. I`ve talked about them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Let`s talk about just a few days later -- actually, just the next day, on October 7th. Are you aware -- do you remember reading a journal article where, and I believe it`s actually in the same exhibit. Where she talks about motherhood?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the context or what is your impression of her thoughts and feelings about motherhood?

WITNESS: She is attending a talk on motherhood. And she`s talking about the importance for her of being the matriarch of a family, of being a good mother, of being a good wife. And this was a really -- this was at the forefront of what she wanted in her life, to be a mother and a wife, and to be a spiritual matriarch in the family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And in speaking with Ms. Arias, is this something that, was she starting to feel like she wasn`t going to get this from Mr. Alexander?

WITNESS: Yes. She was feeling that way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And so by October of 2007, do we have her starting to feel like the relationship with Mr. Alexander is not going to end up in marriage?

WITNESS: Well, that`s back and forth, because although she says that, the behavior lends me to believe that there`s still hope that that could happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. So is she going through this learned hopefulness?

WITNESS: I believe she is, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. So is she still, when you talk about this back-and-forth behavior, is that something that you see in your practice, this back and forth behavior between feeling, OK, it can work and then, no, it`s not going to work?

WITNESS: Absolutely. It`s very common.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s talk about October 13th. A journal entry on October 13th and this has been marked as exhibit 577.

And I believe -- around this time, are you aware of them taking a trip?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Do you need to review that?

WITNESS: I`m not reviewing the entire e-mail, but I know the gist of the e-mail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you say e-mail, do you mean journal entry?

WITNESS: I`m sorry -- the journal.


So where is it that they go on a trip in October?

WITNESS: They go to a balloon festival in Albuquerque.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And during this time, are you aware that whether or not Mr. Alexander is still dating Lisa Andrews?

WITNESS: I believe he is still dating --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Hearsay.

JUDGE: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Based on your information that you reviewed in the case, do you have the understanding that they were still dating?



And yet, it`s Mr. Alexander who takes Jodi with him to this balloon festival, right?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we talked earlier about their, when they go on trips together and how it`s very bonding for them. Do you see that type of bonding going on with this trip?

WITNESS: Yes. There`s, there`s talk about trying new foods, trying alligator. I forget what else they`re trying, frog legs, they`re trying new food and it`s a good trip.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Is this -- you talked earlier about, I think it`s called variable interval reinforcement?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this something that you see here?



WITNESS: Because there, you never know when the good things are going to happen, but they happen. And they`re good things.

And so, there`s something to look forward to. There`s something to believe, if I stick with this, you know, I can, I can have what I want. I can eventually have what I want.

And so, when you bond, when you take these trips and when you share special things, and I think they do, I think in this relationship they do share special things. I think that`s what keeps people in a relationship, is that they share special things, and those things are hard to give up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And is this one of those special times that you see based on her journal entries?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And in speaking with her as well, right?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. As part of your review, you also talked about other e-mails, e-mails between Lisa Andrews and Mr. Alexander?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you review one in October where Mr. Alexander is reassuring Lisa that issues have been dealt with?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell us about that.

WITNESS: I don`t remember the exact date, but I remember that --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, hearsay.

JUDGE: Approach, please.

PINSKY: And with that sidebar approaching, we will push the pause button as we say here at HLN. We will be continuing the trial after the break. But listen to that testimony by LaViolette. Jodi never jealous. But every objective piece of evidence was that she was.

And you just heard before LaViolette was on the stand, you saw her mom in an interrogation video saying her friends were freaked out, calling her in the middle of the night by Jodi`s behavior and breaking down. You don`t hear anything like that about Travis from anybody.

We will have Jodi`s dad being interrogated by the police. This again is never-before-seen video. We are working through it now. You`ll be able to watch it with us. It`s a world exclusive.

Also later on, with Jodi`s Mormon instructor. We think she twisted his teaching in order to be able to still use her sex the way she liked to, to reel her partners in.

So, while you`re watching the trial after the break, we`ll be putting this video together for you.

So be right back.


PINSKY: We are back with live coverage of the Jodi Arias trial so you don`t miss a second of it. Let`s go ahead and hit the play button while we prepare the video of Jodi`s father`s in the interrogation. That will after the break after the trial and we got a lot of show coming up.

JUDGE: You may continue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So with regard to this e-mail, not talking about the specifics of it, but in, in this e-mail from Mr. Alexander to Ms. Andrews, do you see him reassuring her, that everything is OK?

WITNESS: Yes, and that he`s dealt with Jodi. He`s dealt with the Jodi issue.


JUDGE: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ask that be stricken.

JUDGE: The jury is directed to disregard the last response. It is stricken from the record.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So in other words -- so do you see this, have you seen Mr. Alexander doing such a thing before in other relationships or with other women, this reassuring? When somebody`s upset or somebody`s suspicious of his actions, do you see him doing this reassuring?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, lack of foundation, date and time, women.

JUDGE: (INAUDIBLE) yes or no?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And so is this one more time that you see it?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What about this incident is important to you?

WITNESS: That shortly after they come back from a trip, Mr. Alexander and Jodi Arias come back from this trip, where they`ve had a really good time and they`ve bonded with each other. That he is reaffirming a relationship with another woman and saying that he`s dealt with it, the Jodi issue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection hearsay.

JUDGE: Sustained.


WITNESS: OK. And that basically, the one woman has nothing to worry about.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you find this to be deceptive at all?

WITNESS: I find it to be very deceptive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what about manipulative?

WITNESS: Well, it`s manipulative in that when you lie to somebody who cares about you and they believe you it reinforces them to believe what you say.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And does it, does it, do you see this happening in to reinforce the relationship so that the woman stays?

WITNESS: Excuse me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you see this happening so that it reinforces the relationship so that the woman stays in the relationship?

WITNESS: Yes. Yes. Our minds don`t tend to go where our minds haven`t been. So if we are not people who generally lie, we generally believe people tell the truth. And so, when someone we love and trust tells us something, we tend to believe it. Unless we are also tend to lie about things.


Let`s talk about at the end of October. I believe that is -- let`s see. Towards the end of October, do we see the first incident of physical violence?

WITNESS: Yes. We do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And do you know, did you speak with Ms. Arias about this?

WITNESS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Can you tell us about what happens?

WITNESS: There`s an argument about everything, about clothes, about how Ms. Arias dresses, about her friendships, about her jobs and there`s Mr. Alexander grabs her by the shoulders and shakes her. She wants to leave. He says you`re not leaving. He, he pushes her. She falls to her knees and he berates her in a verbal way as well.

And this goes on for a while. They, they continue to talk after this and the relationship -- I mean, there`s --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They continue to talk until it calms down?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And this happens over a period of a couple hours?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the things that Ms. Arias specifically recalled with regard to this argument had to do with her family. Do you remember that?

WITNESS: That according to Ms. Arias that Mr. Alexander called her family names, called her grandfather -- that she was talking about her brother, and his name was Carl, and basically said that was a gay name. And she said well, it`s my grandfather`s name, and he said, he was probably a fag, too. And that there was the putting down of her family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that significant to you?

WITNESS: Yes. It`s significant first of all that somebody calls names to somebody`s family. And that he calls them gay names. I mean, I`m not sure why that was.

And but the putting down of somebody`s family is significant. Putting down of people that you care about is significant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What about her not being able to leave? What does she say about, about that?

WITNESS: Well, in Dr. (INAUDIBLE) report, she says she could have left.


WITNESS: But initially, he tells her he can`t leave -- or that she can`t leave. And I don`t know that she really tried to leave. She stayed.

He was escalating. He was yelling at her. And she stayed and calmed him down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now is that something --

WITNESS: Then she got to leave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After he calmed him down.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This, this fighting and this berating that goes on and then she stays and ultimately stays till he calms down, is this a cycle? Or is this a pattern that you see in relationships in your own, with your own patients?

WITNESS: Yes. It is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me about that.

WITNESS: Well, the pattern being that they have some kind of intense exchange that could be verbal. It could be psychological. It could be it could be physical. It could be all of the above.

And that after that happens there`s this quiet period. There`s usually a period where people make up. It`s called the loving respite. Leonora Walker (ph) calls it the honeymoon phase when they bond again, because when -- and this happens in arguments with folks that aren`t abusive. Usually, if you have an argument with somebody you love and you make up, you feel closer to that person, because you`ve gone something together and you`ve, and you`ve found a way to patch it up, and so, you make up.

In a domestically abusive relationship it`s even more intense because the event tends to be more intense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The event attention part you mean?

WITNESS: The incident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The incident tends to be more intense.

All right. And in this particular incident, he actually pushes her down. Is that part of the physical violence of it?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we talked earlier about how sometimes women in these relationships don`t feel like they have a choice. We talked about the power differential. I think we`re talking about the diamondbacks game, and it doesn`t feel like a choice to, to make a choice, I guess.

Can -- is that something similar to this situation where ultimately she tried to fight her way out, maybe she could have gotten out, versus feeling like she didn`t have a choice to leave with someone like that?

WITNESS: It could be a situation like that. I mean, when someone physically restrains you, you usually don`t have much of a choice. So it`s not just a matter of feeling like you don`t have a choice. It`s more of a reality that you don`t have a choice. And at some point, she may have had a choice. And she didn`t act out on that choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when somebody physically restrains you or physically, is physically violent with you, do people tend to fear that if you do something that the person doesn`t like they might do it right again?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Ms. Arias tend to think that this might have been a -- when it happens in October of 2007, does Ms. Arias tend to think that this is an isolated incident?

WITNESS: Yes, she says that it`s an isolated instance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What does that mean to you?

WITNESS: Well, in terms of the physical encounter, it`s the first one. So she sees this as aberrant, as unusual, as not something that typifies the relationship. The verbal things, those are things that she`s described as becoming more common and becoming things she expects.

But the physical was not something that she expected and saw it as an unusual act and maybe didn`t see that it would happen again. Probably didn`t see that it would happen again. And Mr. Alexander probably wouldn`t have seen that it would happen again either.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. And is that part of the hope that the ability, the ability on in Alexander`s part to hope that he doesn`t do something like this again and the ability to hope by Ms. Arias that he`s not going to do it again?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And -- all right. Let`s talk about a journal entry in October 26th, 2007. And is it your understanding that this journal entry is after this physical incident?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has been marked as exhibit 578.

PINSKY: Hey, Mark, while she`s reading, I`ve got to tell you, her words are empty to me after hearing the mom`s interrogation tape. That told me all I needed to know.

EIGLARSH: Yes, this is very -- this is like road kill. It`s difficult to watch her, because she acts like she knows. All she knows, like a bad game of telephone, is what Jodi told her. What Jodi wants her to believe, and then she regurgitates with her credentials for the world, what Jodi wants her to believe.

PINSKY: All right. We`ve got to get back to the trial. We`re almost done.

WITNESS: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the context? What is it that you get out of this, your impressions of this journal entry?

WITNESS: That Jodi is thinking that she may be starting to get over Mr. Alexander. That she doesn`t, she thinks she may have learned something. That she`s kind of quick to fall in love. And slow to fall out of love. But because of the way he treats her, because of the things he says and does, that she believes she`s starting to lose attraction for him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So -- in this, in October of 2007, do you start to see this, an inkling I guess you`d say of her starting to pull away?

WITNESS: An inkling where she`s actually starting to say to herself, I`m starting to get over him. And it`s about time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And at the end of the journal entry, does she talk about who she`s become?

WITNESS: She talks about becoming a shadow of what she once was. That she saw herself as a much healthier, much more directed person. She doesn`t say those words, but she indicates now that she`s not what she used to be and she`s a shadow of what she once was, less than she once was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And based on the timing of this journal entry, is this about a little over a year into their relationship?

WITNESS: Yes, it is.

UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: All right. Thank you. Have a good --

JUDGE: All right ladies and gentlemen tomorrow morning 9:30. Please remember the admonition. Have a nice evening. You are excuse.

PINSKY: We`re going to be back with the morning drama out of the court. A juror got kicked offer the panel for good.

And we have more exclusive tape of Jodi`s parents being interrogated at the police station. That is the mom right there. And I`ll tell you something, what I heard there was incredibly revealing.

She told police she wanted to puke whether told what police knew. She was stunned that somebody could be so normal after having done something like that. And she revealed that people, friends had been calling in the middle of the night concerned about Jodi. In my experience that only happens when people are psychotic, homicidal or suicidal.

We will hear from what the dad said and we have a whole show ahead after this.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Attorney Mark Eiglarsh from Joining us, forensic psychologist, Cheryl Arutt, attorney and Sirius XM radio host, Jenny Hutt, and Attorney Leo Terrell.

But first, I want to go to "In Session" correspondent, Beth Karas. Beth, tell us about -- well, first of all, the new interrogation video we just saw, was it part of the case, is it going to get in the courtroom and what happened this morning?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": No. Those interrogation videos are not going to be part of the case, unless, there`s a death penalty phase. And not the videos, but the parents might get on the stand and discuss some of the things we heard, Sandy, the mom, and William, the dad, say in those videos, like, you know, she`s had psychological problems. I thought maybe she was bipolar. She`d be happy, she`d be sad, she`d cry.

Just, you know, for no reason, she always talked about suicide. These are some of the things that Sandy talks about. So, maybe, we will see that if there`s a penalty phase. No. And oh, about today, earlier today, the juror, yes. The juror, juror number five, one of the seven women on the jury left the courthouse reportedly in tears after she was removed. She sat throughout this trial, been very active participant, taking a lot of notes, submitting notes to the jury, questions to be asked.

But the judge found that she couldn`t be fair and impartial, apparently, based upon something she said. We don`t have the details. We`re not told the details. The record is sealed. But the judge did deny a mistrial. So, of course, the trial goes on.

PINSKY: Thank you, Beth Karas. Leo, my first question is to you. Given -- if you were the defense attorney and this juror has now been kicked off the jury, does that offer other opportunity that you could start to exploit as the defense attorney?

LEO TERRELL, ATTORNEY: I`m celebrating. I`m thinking mistrial appeal. Automatically, Dr. Drew, I am looking at that aspect of having her dismissed as a grounds to seek an appeal if the jury, if the verdict is adverse. So, I`m elated that that juror was kicked off. We`ll know later the reason is still as Beth mentioned.


PINSKY: Mark, would you agree with that?

EIGLARSH: Absolutely not. Come on. The judge fixed whatever the problem was. The judge asked each of the jurors -- they weren`t tainted by whatever juror number five said. The juror was placed. That`s it. There is no appeal issue. The judge fixed it. and Probably both sides agreed to the outcome.

PINSKY: Cheryl, I want to go to you about what we heard from the mom in this interrogation tape. She was describing, forget bipolar, she was describing borderline personality, which you and I have been speculating about from the beginning.

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Haven`t we? This is exactly what she was describing. And look at the difference in the mom between her stoic persona sitting in that courtroom and falling apart in this interrogation. She must have been told don`t show any emotion in this trial. And I don`t know how this woman is holding it together.

PINSKY: Jenny, are you having the same reaction I`m having which is when I now listen to LaViolette, it`s just -- I might as well turn the sound off. I don`t care what she has to say now that I understand that there is evidence, and Mark, I know you`ve been saying that all along. I get that. But there`s now evidence -- there`s just evidence, Jenny, that this woman had very serious mental health problems. There was freaky (ph) people out in the middle of the night.

JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Well, yes, Dr. Drew, I would agree with that. But additionally, I find LaViolette like the worst expert for the defense. I feel like she`s just a man hater. Everything she says leads me to -- wouldn`t matter what Travis did. He`d still be an abuser. Had he given roses every morning to Jodi and sweet butterfly kisses, he`d still be an abuser.

That`s how LaViolette reads to me. Even when she was talking about, at one point in the testimony, pictures were sent to Travis, sexy pictures. She said something like what`s he doing with them, drooling all day? And that got an objection, rightfully so, because she`s clearly prejudicial, and she just reads that she doesn`t like men.

PINSKY: I agree. Again --


PINSKY: Go ahead, Cheryl, please. Then --

ARUTT: I want to say something. I want to say something that LaViolette just said that I thought was so telling, which is she said our minds don`t go where they haven`t been. And then, she went on to say that if we believe somebody we really care about, and we tell the truth, we assume they`re telling the truth.

Now, she was trying to say that Jodi would think that. But I think she was talking about herself. She doesn`t lie. So, she believes everything Jodi said to her. Jodi --


PINSKY: There you go. Leo, go ahead.

TERRELL: Dr. Drew, very quickly. Look, that expert is trying to resonate with those jurors. And she`s trying to humanize Jodi. Now, hey, look, we may have our own personal opinion, but she`s testifying in that courtroom. And I have to disagree with my colleague. Hey, a juror being thrown off of a case like this?

That`s a massive grounds for appeal. So, let`s look at the evidence that being presented. That expert is doing a very good job.

ARUTT: Oh, no she`s not.


PINSKY: Hold, hold! Behavior bureau`s next.

And, the incredible police interrogation tapes with Jodi`s parents will be front and center in our conversation. Again, this is a worldwide exclusive. Do not go away.


PINSKY: Welcome back. Co-host this week, Mark Eiglarsh. Now, with - - by the way, I`m going to -- we`re pushed the behavior bureau back a few minutes, because we still need to get that tape for you of the dad. We`re getting that. We`ll have it in mere minutes. But first, we`re going to interview who, within two months of meeting Travis Alexander, saw Jodi Arias in a baptism.

She was baptized to the Mormon faith. Travis had refused to date her, unless, she shared his beliefs. Joining us, Cheryl Arutt, Jenny Hutt, and an exclusive with Mormon, Elder Jeff Jensen, who was by Jodi`s side at the time of the baptism. He schooled Jodi in the traditions of Mormon faith. So, Elder Jensen, thank you so much for joining us. How did Jodi present to you? What was her interest? Why did you get involved with her? Give us little story here, if you could.

ELDER JEFF JENSEN, TAUGHT JODI ABOUT MORMONISM: Oh no, no problem at all. Yes. I was serving as a Mormon missionary in the area where Jodi was living. And, I -- we received a call from Travis Alexander to our apartment, and he had mentioned that he had a friend that was interested in learning about the church. So, he gave us her contact information, and we called her and set up a time to go meet with her.

And then, over a series of a month, month and a half, we taught Jodi. And, she expressed the desire to be baptized a member of the church. And, you know, in my interactions with Jodi, she was you know, very, very kind, very quiet, very intelligent. And to me, she seemed very sincere in her desire to learn about the church.

PINSKY: How did she go from that Jodi to the Jodi that`s stabbing Travis 30 times?

JENSEN: You know, that`s a very good question. I don`t know. When I, when I found out about, about this, I was obviously, very, very shocked. You know, she seemed to be a person that would never in a million years be capable of doing something like this. But, of course, she did. And it was a very, very tragic, very tragic thing that happened.

And, it`s weird or interesting to be connected in some way with this whole thing. So, it`s, it was hard for me to agree to talk about it, but I feel it`s important to talk about that experience and maybe shed some light on Jodi at that time in her life. And about, you know, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Mormon church as many people know it to be.

EIGLARSH: I have a question, Drew.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Mark.


EIGLARSH: I mean, is there some kind of test or some kind of prerequisite to determine whether someone`s really sincere before they officially become a Mormon?

JENSEN: Yes. The way that, the way that the missionaries teach is, you know, through a series of lessons. We, you know, meet them at their home, and we give them things to read from the book of Mormon and from the bible that talk about the teachings of Jesus Christ. And we invite people to make commitments or to commit to live those teachings in steps. And then, at the time, somebody expresses a desire to be baptized --

PINSKY: Dr. Jensen, I`m sorry.


PINSKY: I`m so sorry I have to interrupt. And I will love to have you back. The trial, obviously, tonight really compressed my segments, and I thank you for joining us. I do have to go to a break right now. We do have the tapes of Jodi`s father. We`re going to get to that and be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strange person, because some, you know, after she left the house, she was kind of a little strange. She was really friendly. Sometimes, she`ll call and real sweet. And months (ph) later, she`ll call in a rage, you know, and just, screaming at my wife. She did that for the last year and a half. She was doing that --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a lot of evidence that points towards her as being the person who committed the murder. The only thing I don`t have is why, why she committed this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, man. She was getting along with him so good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know if your in-laws have a gun, a 25 auto?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I think it was a 22 that -- someone broke into my in law`s house and they stole a gun, a pistol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that report says it was a 25 auto.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. And the reason I`m asking is because a 25 auto was used in this crime.


PINSKY: It is time for the behavior bureau. That, Mark, is Jodi`s dad being interrogated by the police. He, if you noticed, was making the connection between Jodi`s violence in her home. You heard that. She was freaking out in the home, yelling at the wife. His next thought was the gun. Somebody broke into our in law`s house. That was his next thought.

EIGLARSH: Because Travis did not have a gun. Shelves would fall down if she jumps up on a shelf or clothing would be disturbed. It is so painfully obvious.

PINSKY: All right. Joining us the behavior bureau, behavior expert, Patti Wood, author of "Snap: Making the Most of First Impressions," forensic psychologist, Cheryl Arutt, and infidelity expert, Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."

Ladies, thank you for joining us. I`m just going to go right around the horn here. I`ll start with Cheryl right in the middle. Those two videos to me, I don`t know about you guys, but this -- the story just came right to life for me about what we`ve been speculating about to be factual.

ARUTT: I think you`re absolutely right, Dr. Drew. They`re talking about disregulation. They`re talking about out of control, waves of emotion, bursts of rage, bursts of yelling and screaming. And then, her dad goes oh, and someone broke in and stole the gun. You`re right. His brain unconsciously made this connection between one thing and the other. And --

PINSKY: Oh, I`m not sure how unconscious -- I`m not sure how unconscious it was. Patti, what do you say?

PATTI WOOD, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: So striking. When you see somebody that`s being honest. When I train people in interviews and interrogation techniques, when they`re honest, they`re matching and mirroring. And he is matching and mirroring his interview. Unlike Jodi. And you also notice his emotions match what`s going on. Unlike Jodi and her interrogations.

PINSKY: Very. Very serious. It`s a very profoundly serious situation. Danine, take us home.

DANINE MANETTE, INFIDELITY EXPERT: You know, you know your kid. You know your kid better than anyone. I know my kid. You know your kid. If you know that your kid is capable of doing that kind of foolishness, then, you know, you can kind of connect the dots. And as soon as someone gives you enough information to do that, you`re getting a little nervous, a little bit worried, because it`s like -- that sounds like something she could do.

PINSKY: Not only that. Something like -- they both were saying she`s been getting like that lately. We`ve been seeing this escalation of horrible behavior. Thank you, guys. Again, we`re very compressed. Thank you to all my guests tonight. You did a great job under compressed circumstances.

Next up, a real jury gets the heave-ho, as we talked about. My juror saw it. She will describe the tearful scene exclusively right here. And we will get their reaction to these tapes.


PINSKY: Time for Dr. Drew`s Jury. With me, my co-host this week, Mark Eiglarsh from Joining us, Katie Wick and Stacey Fairrington. Guys, thank you for joining us.

Stacey, you saw juror number five just after she was dismissed. What did you see?

STACEY FAIRRINGTON, IN ARIAS COURTROOM: Well, I was standing over by the elevator and I was just on my phone, and, we were kind of just waiting to be taken in in the morning that they have started so late. And so, as I`m standing there, the bailiff comes walking out towards the elevator and juror number five is with her.

And I, first, couldn`t believe it and I looked at her. And, Dr. Drew, I mean, she looked devastated. She was crying. She was wiping the tears from her eyes. You could tell she had been crying. I really felt so bad. I really feel like she is actually very devastated by everything that`s gone on from this. I think she`s probably going to have a really hard time being dismissed from this jury.

PINSKY: And Katie, you`ve referred to this juror a number of times, have you not?

KATIE WICK, IN ARIAS COURTROOM: I have talked about her, yes, Dr. Drew, from the very first day that I was actually here. And going back into the courtroom when they filed in after lunch today, Stacey and I, we`re sitting there and I said to her, my goodness, this feels so different because she sits in the front. She sits in the middle.

She`s kind of like, for lack of a better term, she`s the focal point. She`s like a breath of fresh air on that jury. I`ve talked about her all the time, and it`s just -- the jury looked very somber today, Dr. Drew, when we returned. And it`s different. It`s very different.

PINSKY: Mark, do you have any questions for our jurors?

EIGLARSH: Yes. I`m curious if you all agree that this is probably a gal who didn`t do anything intentional. She`s invested a lot of time in this case. She probably feels horrible that she`s not able to continue on, can`t deliberate. She`s invested so much time and energy. She`s probably very embarrassed. I wonder what your take on it is.

FAIRRINGTON: Well, yes. I mean, she was one that -- she sat and wrote notes. I mean, she was the one we even always talked about that I would love to talk to her after. She was the one that paid attention. She was the one that listened. She took notes. She wrote questions. I really think she could have been, you know, the foreman on this jury. She really was kind of a leader amongst the group. And like Katie was saying, it was hard to watch that empty seat today.

PINSKY: Did she say anything to you when you were in the elevator, Stacey?

FAIRRINGTON: She didn`t. No. I mean, you could just -- I made eye contact -- you know, I made eye contact with her. I smiled at her. I mean, I really felt like if it would have been even appropriate to give her a hug, which I know that it would not have been, but I mean, that`s like how I felt with her. I really felt like she needed a hug. And I hope she knows there are people that really do support her.

PINSKY: Way to go, guys. I`ll be right back. Got to take a break.


PINSKY: Mark, question for the jurors?

EIGLARSH: Well, we heard that Travis` family cried after juror number five was excused. I`m wondering if you, guys, got the sense that this was a prosecution juror that got let off of this jury? I`m just wondering what the sense was out there?

WICK: Yes. Absolutely. And, I do. I think that she was for prosecution, because the defense obviously was adamant about having her kicked off.

PINSKY: Guys, thank you.

WICK: -- she couldn`t (ph) be impartial. Thank you.

PINSKY: Got to go. Everything`s compressed. Thank you to all my guests. Thank you to Mark Eiglarsh. Thank you all for watching. I will see you all next time. And "HLN After Dark" is starting next. I will see you there. Again, great job guests tonight under compressed circumstances. And "HLN After Dark" starts right now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Tonight, you`ll be the judge. A bold accusation, Jodi uses men.

VOICE OF JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING HER EX-BOYFRIEND: Oh my gosh. This is so debasing. I like it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our live studio jury is here to weigh the evidence and cast their vote with you, guilty or not guilty.

From Studio Seven, this is "HLN After Dark." Here now, Vinnie Politan and Ryan Smith.