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Dr. Drew
Jodi & Mom: Two Peas In A Pod?; Jodi`s Trial Live
Aired April 10, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Jodi Arias trial day 45. Alice in Wonderland. Has Jodi`s defense witness cracked?
(CROSSTALK)
WITNESS: She did not tell me that. I made an assumption. It was an incorrect assumption.
PINSKY: Has the savage questioning scored big, proving that Jodi is a stalker?
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Exposing a nasty horrific rumor that is untrue about an individual, that`s also considered stalking behavior, correct?
WITNESS: I would consider that blackmailing behavior.
PINSKY: Plus, we`ve got new and never-before-seen photos of the man she killed. What do they reveal about Travis Alexander who`s reputation has been shredded by Jodi?
What`s Cameron Diaz got to do with it?
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Welcome to the program, everybody. We are not going to let you miss one minute of the trial.
But, first, I`m going to introduce my co-host, HLN anchor, Christi Paul, who is here with me.
Hey, Christi. Thank you for joining us.
But before you and I get into further conversation, I`m going to hit the play button here. We`re going to finish up the trial and they will be back with our panel.
So, let`s hit that play button and get on with this.
JENNIFER WILMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Do you remember being asked questions about your -- whether or not you believed Ms. Arias?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And do you remember talking about going into a case with a certain amount of skepticism?
WITNESS: Yes, I do.
WILMOTT: Can you tell us what you meant?
WITNESS: When ever I --
(AUDIO GAP)
JUDGE: I`m sorry. I didn`t hear the objection.
MARTINEZ: Relevance.
JUDGE: Overruled.
WITNESS: When I take -- or when I investigate a case, I don`t presume that what I`m being told is the truth. I need to figure that out for myself. I need to have enough to go on and there are cases I don`t take because there either is not enough evidence from my perspective or I don`t believe the person I am talking to or I don`t have enough time to do a good job.
But I have gone into cases and been halfway through cases where I decided that I couldn`t testify in those cases. I have testified for a police officer --
MARTINEZ: Objection, beyond the scope.
WILMOTT: So when you first are on a case and you go and say you enter the case with some skepticism until you have more information, right?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Did you do that in this case?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And did you have skepticism when you first met with Ms. Arias, before you first met with Ms. Arias?
WITNESS: Yes. I didn`t want to -- I wasn`t sure I wanted to take this case at all.
WILMOTT: OK.
And after speaking with Ms. Arias, was she able to answer some of your questions that you had?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And working throughout this case was there ever a time you felt you needed to withdraw from it?
MARTINEZ: Objection, relevance.
JUDGE: Sustained.
WILMOTT: May I approach, Judge?
JUDGE: You may.
PINSKY: While they`re taking a break, we will take a little break here and I will talk to Christi and my panel. We are not going to let you miss a second of the trial. We will pick up where we just left in just a minute.
Let me, Christi -- hi, by the way. Thank you for joining us. We ran right to the trial there. I haven`t had a chance to talk about this case with you. Do you have strong feelings about it?
CHRISTI PAUL, HLN ANCHOR: You know, I`m trying to decide whether Alyce LaViolette is hurting or helping the defense as of today. I posted on my Twitter page, you know, what were people`s takeaway.
And so far, so many people have said to me, they have a real issue with the fact that LaViolette talked about how Jodi said she shot Travis in the closet and some things that she said just aren`t adding up. They think initially --
PINSKY: Some of the things. Very little of what she says, very little of what she says ever adds up. She lies about everything.
It`s one thing -- like Casey Anthony, it`s the one thing we know about Jodi, even though LaViolette says she only lied since the murder. Oh, good, only lying since the murder. But she lies everything.
PAUL: How do we know that?
PINSKY: Well, when, in fact, the evidence suggests otherwise because the parents in the interrogation room were complaining about her distortions prior to the killing.
Now, I want to introduce to the rest of my panel while the attorneys were on break.
Joining us: Mark Eiglarsh, from speaktomark.com. I`ve also got Jenny Hutt from Sirius XM Radio. And, of course, I believe we have Lauren Lake as well.
Lauren, guys, thank you for joining us.
I was reading my Twitter feed here guys. Who said this? Huge moment for Arias prosecutors while questioning the defense domestic violence experts, I`ll share live at 9:00 p.m.
Who said that?
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO: That had to be Mark.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: That was actually for me, I was so excited for Juan Martinez scoring such a huge point and Christi already referred to it.
PINSKY: Tell us.
EIGLARSH: She`s already referred to it. I was expecting the marching band to come out and confetti to fly. But he`s just kind of went along, he just moved along. It was that moment that she referred to, that she told LaViolette in no uncertain terms she shot Travis in the closet but she told this jury she ran out the closet and the shooting did not happen in the closet.
You got two huge arguments, either she can`t keep her story straight because she`s lying. And also, you can`t rely on what LaViolette says because she, Jodi Arias, lied to her.
PINSKY: All right. So, let us get back to trial. We don`t want you to miss with any of this. We`re going to hit the play button here. I`ll be back with the panel and back with "Behavior Bureau" and back with the discussion. But, first, we`re going to finish up the trial for today. I don`t want you guys to miss a second of this. So, let`s get now right to it.
WILMOTT: Ms. LaViolette, during your time on this case, when you are investigating it and looking through all the evidence, as you said you`ve done in the past, withdraw from a case, did you ever feel the need to withdraw from this case?
WITNESS: No.
WILMOTT: All right.
So, let`s -- when you fist met with Ms. Arias, do you remember the questions about apologizing to her?
WITNESS: Yes, I did.
WILMOTT: Why did you apologize to her?
WITNESS: Because I was genuinely sorry that I invaded private space that people -- you know, things that people write and things that people pour out on a page that they believe is private, that`s not something that I usually do. I wanted her to know that I understood what I was doing. And I thought that in her understanding that, that maybe we`d have a little trust and she would be able to talk to me more easily.
WILMOTT: And is her situation different from when you`re counseling or you have battered women come and speaking to you, are those women coming to you with their problems?
WITNESS: They are, but they generally don`t tell me lots of things, when they first meet me. It`s usually over a period of time, when they begin to trust you, and the same with other folks that I work with. As one of my clients just said, you know, Alyce --
MARTINEZ: Hearsay.
WILMOTT: So is it different than with Ms. Arias, because at the point you met her, did you already know a lot of very personal information about her?
WITNESS: Yes, I did.
WILMOTT: Information that most of us would consider -- in a sexual nature, did you know a lot of information about sex contact between her and Mr. Alexander?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Is that something that is normally kept in private?
WITNESS: Yes, it is.
WILMOTT: So is that what your apology had to do with?
WITNESS: Yes --
MARTINEZ: Objection, asked and answered.
JUDGE: Sustained.
WILMOTT: So when you went in there and apologized to her, is there anything about that that makes you feel you were biased for her at all?
WITNESS: Not at all, no.
WILMOTT: Were you ever concerned about liking her too much that you can`t give an honest opinion about whether or not she`s a battered woman?
WITNESS: No. If I -- I just haven`t had that come up in a situation where I`ve liked somebody so much I can`t remove myself. I mean, testimony to me is very significant and very important. It doesn`t matter what kind of case it is and this case is very serious.
But I think when people are talking about losing their children or not having access to their children, or losing an inheritance, whatever that would be --
MARTINEZ: (INAUDIBLE)
JUDGE: Sustained.
WILMOTT: She`s explaining why it`s important.
JUDGE: Ask another question.
WILMOTT: In your counseling, when you have clients come in your door and have battered men -- not battered men, your men`s group.
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Some of those men, I imagine, in the past, have done some pretty awful things to people, right?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: The fact that those some of those men have done pretty awful things and you don`t like what they`ve done, does that make it where you`re not able to work with them?
WITNESS: No, it doesn`t.
WILMOTT: When you have battered women come and see you, you might feel badly for their situation or what they`ve been through, do you ever feel that way for them?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Does it mean you can`t work with them and give them an honest assessment what they might need to do for their own life?
WITNESS: No, it doesn`t.
WILMOTT: Did you have any problems like that, when you were talking with Ms. Arias and forming your opinion with regard to this case being a domestically violent relationship?
WITNESS: No, did not.
WILMOTT: All right. Let`s talk for a second about a couple of small details from Ms. Arias` past, OK?
WITNESS: Sure.
WILMOTT: Do you recall questions about a childhood friend of hers who knew her when she was in grade school?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Did you review an interview of this childhood friend that knew her in grade school?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And this interview would have been -- because we`re talking about a friend of hers from grade school, this interview would have been conducted about 20 years after this woman knew Ms. Arias, right?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: Do you remember being asked questions about some of the things this woman said?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: About Ms. Arias?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Were you asked questions about whether or not Ms. Arias would play a victim when she was in grade school?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And then, later on, the prosecutor talked -- well, immediately after that, the prosecutor talked to you about something that occurs much later in Ms. Arias` life, when she -- actually after June 4th, working at the Purple Plum, do you remember that?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Did the prosecutor ask you questions about how she acted with men and working at the Purple Plum?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: Those two incidents, from grade school and then after June 4th of 2008, 20 some years later, does that in any way form a pattern for you?
WITNESS: No, it doesn`t.
WILMOTT: Is there any possible way two incidents 20 some years apart is going to make a pattern in your line of work?
WITNESS: Not that I can see. Not regarding domestic violence.
WILMOTT: OK. The prosecutor was talking to you about also some of the things that Mr. Arias talked about his own daughter, right?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: Well, you said you were trying to tell the prosecutor some of the things that you would want to consider with whatever Mr. Arias said about her, correct?
WITNESS: Right.
WILMOTT: What are some of the things you would want to consider about Mr. Arias?
WITNESS: Well, for one thing, it`s pretty tough when a parent has to look at their own behavior and relationship to their children. So --
WILMOTT: What do you mean?
WITNESS: According to reports, Mr. Arias has been abusive with Jodi and controlling and manipulative with his wife and there are patterns with them. So it would be difficult to have to tell somebody that. So that would be one thing.
WILMOTT: OK. Is there anything else you`d consider?
WITNESS: Well, I consider that Mr. Arias and his daughter had an estranged relationship and communication between the two of them hadn`t been good for years and they didn`t have regular communication. So, what he said would come out of a limited framework. After she moved back to Yreka, which was some 10 years or so, after she had left and they hadn`t had a lot of contact.
WILMOTT: You asked questions about a comment from him about Ms. Arias` truthfulness when she was a teenager.
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And so, Mr. Arias is talking about a time when Jodi was around 14, right?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: Does it mean anything to you that parent has an issue with a teenager`s truthfulness? Is that unusual?
WITNESS: It`s not unusual. People with teenagers know it`s not unusual.
WILMOTT: So, would you take that into consideration in whether or not Ms. Arias was truthful during her lifetime prior to June 4th?
WITNESS: No. I mean, my understanding is that it was more a set of more since of omission than co-mission, that she didn`t directly lie as much as she didn`t tell them what was going on.
WILMOTT: All right. This was again back when she was 14?
WITNESS: Right.
WILMOTT: Do you remember the prosecutor talking to you about these incidents, then, something from grade school, something from 14, and then something after June 4th, right?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: And that was in response to your comments about no indication of Ms. Arias being untruthful prior to June 4th, correct?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: Anything the prosecutor said to you change your mind about her truthfulness?
WITNESS: No. He was talking about isolated instances. He was not talking about patterns that you could trace. I didn`t take isolated instances from Mr. Alexander`s background and hold that up.
(CROSSTALK)
JUDGE: Sustained.
WILMOTT: So something that would be considered an isolated incident for Mr. Alexander, is that -- would that have carry much weight with you?
WITNESS: No, it wouldn`t.
WILMOTT: When you`re talking about patterns with regard to Mr. Alexander, or incidents with regard to Mr. Alexander, are you speaking in a global sense of patterns that you see, with him?
WITNESS: Currently or --
WILMOTT: Yes. I`m sorry. Currently.
WITNESS: OK, yes. I`m talking about patterns that I see over the time that he was in a relationship with Ms. Arias, that appeared to have been present before.
WILMOTT: One of the things the prosecutor talked to you about is your continuum, right? We`ve been over this?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And is this -- how do you use this continuum?
WITNESS: I actually have used it a lot in doing training. I use it in conjunction with Michael Johnson`s work and (INAUDIBLE) Gregory Stewart`s work. And what I do is explain to people about sort of a context of abusive behavior, range of abusive behavior.
And if I have enough time, I show them a video clip and then ask them to break up into groups and assess and create interventions for people, so that they begin to look at this range of behaviors and what might be effective ways of intervening with folks to help them out. And then we come together and we do a case conference together.
So I use this more in training. I have used it. I used it in one child custody case, where there was a situation of a flight risk and dual passports because the judge really thought about domestic --
MARTINEZ: Objection, relevance. Speculation.
JUDGE: Sustained.
WILMOTT: Did you use this in another case before?
WITNESS: Yes. I used it in a child custody case.
WILMOTT: So, it was not a criminal case?
WITNESS: No, it wasn`t.
WILMOTT: And was it to help explain to the judge your opinion?
MARTINEZ: Objection, leading.
JUDGE: Overruled.
WITNESS: It was to help explain that terrorism wasn`t the only kind of domestic violence.
WILMOTT: OK. So that, is this -- is that something that can be helpful with this continuum for people to understand you don`t have to have the most severe type of domestic violence in order for it to be domestic violence?
WITNESS: Yes. And that`s one of the most difficult areas for people to look at, is that you don`t have too be a terrorist to create fear and apprehension in someone.
WILMOTT: OK.
One of the things that the prosecutor talked to you about, sexual humiliation and degradation, do you remember that?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: He was asking you questions about whether or not Mr. Alexander would fit into that category that he was sexually humiliated and degraded, right?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: Do you remember being asked questions about something Mr. Alexander said during one of his tirades with Ms. Arias about feeling like a dildo with a heart beat?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And you talked about there was much more in that tirade versus just that statement, right?
WITNESS: Correct.
WILMOTT: Having just that statement alone can you place him and say that he is sexually humiliated and degraded from that single statement?
WITNESS: No, I can`t.
WILMOTT: Why not?
WITNESS: Because it`s one statement and I`ve seen a history of their sexual relationship and it doesn`t appear that he is sexually humiliated or degraded by Ms. Arias` behavior.
WILMOTT: All right. Did you review an e-mail from Lisa Andrews to Mr. Alexander?
WITNESS: Yes.
WILMOTT: And in that e-mail, was she talking about their sexual contact between the two of them?
WITNESS: Yes, she was.
WILMOTT: And was she talking about being uncomfortable?
WITNESS: She was talking about feeling like maybe she was used and maybe he cared more about her body than her. Yes.
WILMOTT: And do you remember the prosecutor asking you questions that somehow in this e-mail, Mr. Alexander was the one who was sexually humiliated because Ms. Andrews somehow went too far with him?
WITNESS: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Objection, mischaracterizes the question.
JUDGE: Approach.
PINSKY: And with that, we`ll hit the pause button again. We`ll be back after this break. We`re gong to bring you up to date on today`s events. I will have my panels, my "Behavior Bureau" and new pictures never before seen of Travis Alexander.
Christi Paul, my co-host, will be joining me.
And again, there`s a little more of the trial. We`re not going to let you miss any of that. And we`ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. Welcome back.
My co-host tonight, HLN anchor, Christi Paul. She`s the author of "Love Isn`t Supposed to Hurt".
Christi, thanks for joining us.
PAUL: Thank you.
PINSKY: And thanks for one upping part my panel, Mark Eiglarsh, who also joins us and part of the panel, who`s always good sport.
PAUL: I didn`t mean to. Sorry.
PINSKY: It`s good.
PINSKY: Especially after you announced it on Twitter to the whole world at that @markeiglarsh is going to break some news, and Christi has news she got a little bit ahead of him on.
Lauren Lake is with us, as well as Jenny Hutt.
Now, guys, we`re going to go a little bit footage here of some highlights of what happened and then discuss it. Here were go.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true that Mr. Alexander was extremely afraid of the defendant, Jodi Arias?
WITNESS: He was afraid of her, yes. Actually, the relationship is over and in fact --
MARTINEZ: I`m over here. You keep looking to your left.
WITNESS: I`d rather look over here.
There`s flirtation.
MARTINEZ: You see, applying your standard, you see that`s something bad on the part of Mr. Alexander.
After they`ve broken up, are you somehow offended so that it impacted your view of the evidence, just because Mr. Alexander, according to you, may be talking to other girls?
WITNESS: Not at all.
MARTINEZ: All right.
WITNESS: I have two older children. I have been through the `60s. I have been through the `70s.
MARTINEZ: There is this physical altercation. There are no reports of it, correct?
WITNESS: Correct.
MARTINEZ: There are no other individuals that you know of that she has told about it, correct?
WITNESS: Correct.
MARTINEZ: There is know medical care that may have been need, correct?
WITNESS: Correct.
Mr. Alexander continues to communicate. In fact, the beginning of 2008, says -- starts the year by saying, "I love you, I love you, Jodi," exclamation point.
MARTINEZ: Based on your conversations with the defendant she actually walked in on him while he was on the computer looking at these images of children, correct?
You have no corroboration of that, do you, other than the defendant`s word?
WITNESS: I have no corroboration, other than things that are mentioned in the sex tape, that would, you know -- talk about (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a little girl in the sex tape.
MARTINEZ: He talks about -- where does he talk about (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a little girl?
WITNESS: In the sex tape.
MARTINEZ: Let me talk to you about the Spider-Man underwear. Do you know who Cameron Diaz is?
WITNESS: Yes, I do.
MARTINEZ: Do you know whether or not Mr. Alexander was very taken with Cameron Diaz?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Cameron Diaz came into the courtroom.
Jenny Hutt, do you think that she -- that Juan Martinez is doing a good job of discrediting this woman? Do you think that she is biased?
HUTT: Oh, God, do I think she`s biased? Yes. As I said yesterday, she`s enchanted by Jodi.
Just before during the trial we were watching a little earlier, LaViolette said you don`t have to be a terrorist to create fear and terror in someone. She has no idea she has been weaseled into loving Jodi. Jodi has manipulated her, caused her to believe the things Jodi has said and Jodi is the one that`s lying, manipulative and the terrorist in plain clothing. That`s the way it is.
PINSKY: Yes, Jenny, I completely agree with you. Lauren Lake, here`s the other thing.
She keeps talking about how a stalker has to induce fear in the person they`re stalking. Nine times out of 10, you never know the stalker is coming after you until it`s too late. You don`t know you`re being stalked until they break in your house and stab your tires and you still wonder who this could be -- the fear comes way late.
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: I know. If you`re fearful, then you don`t go on vacation and you don`t keep talking them and messaging them and calling them. That`s the problem and the important thing the LaViolette is establishing.
They want to make Jodi out to be a stalker. So, why isn`t this guy texting her back, stop calling me, never call me again, going to the police, trying to make some type of police report? This is an issue and I think this part is where LaViolette is firm and I don`t think the prosecution overcame that today.
PINSKY: Very interesting.
Christi Paul, I want to button this up with you. Do you think, like me, it was Jodi using sex dragging Travis back in, and that was her method of power and control?
PAUL: Well, I mean, it seemed like it because it seems to me that she may have felt like she didn`t have any control. If he was going take this other girl to Cancun and she couldn`t see -- it seems she wanted more from him he was willing to give her and that may have been the only armor she had was to try to get in with him in that way.
PINSKY: And then, when he decided he was done, that`s when the actual violence kicked in, the slashing of tires, the breaking into his house, and the was against his belongings and then the violence against the person. That is what happened here.
Next up, guys, like mother like daughter, the "Behavior Bureau" group is back with us to answer some questions.
And later, a reminder, we have exclusive photos. There`s mom -- same colors here. Exclusive photos, there they are, Travis Alexander. A friend is here to defend the man who cannot speak for himself and we still have a little more of the trial.
So don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, you need some help, Jodi. I said, you`ve got this fantasy in your head that you had a rotten childhood and that we searched your room all the time and we did all this stuff and we didn`t. And you need some help. The only time we searched her room was when she was in 8th grade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us about what happened. You said you went in your room, relaxed, what did you do next?
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING HER EX-BOYFRIEND: We just wandered around a little. We went out to the swimming pool. There were a lot of people there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- she was growing pod (ph).
ARIAS: I didn`t bring a bathing suit. I was thinking business. So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were getting ready to move and couldn`t find my Tupperware container, she had them on the roof.
ARIAS: I felt, I don`t know, it was 100 degrees and everyone was out in bikinis hanging out, splashing around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m growing pod (ph) on the roof.
ARIAS: I felt awkward standing in my business clothes, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, we called the police and turned her in and wanted something done, you know, to scare her and whatever.
ARIAS: I was getting introduced to a lot of people. I couldn`t really keep track of everyone. There were a lot of names.
ARIAS: That`s the only time I have ever, in my whole life --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Back with the behavior bureau, my co-host this week, Christi Paul, the HLN anchor and author of "Love Isn`t Supposed To Hurt." We are joined by Jenny Hutt, Patti Wood, behavior expert and author of "Snap: Making The Most of First Impressions," and clinical psychologist, Cheryl Arutt.
All right. You know, you guys were watching the mom and daughter sort of mirroring one another in their detailed story telling style, but I`m still struck by this notion of how different the perception the two of these women have of Jodi`s childhood. Patti, start with you. Whom do you believe and why the big distortion on Jodi part?
PATTI WOOD, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Well, what`s interesting, during the testimony when Jodi was actually talking about her mother, there was a lot of what it`s called a tongue cleanse and lots of clicking that indicate her mother is distasteful to her. And she said this when she was on the stand.
PINSKY: Interesting. And Cheryl, distortion --
WOOD: Unbelievable.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: There are cognitive distortions. There are thinking distortions that people who are borderline like Jodi make. And when you`re the mom of somebody who can turn on a dime from love to hate and back again, there`s going to be a very stormy kind of relationship there, and I think these two have demonstrated that.
PINSKY: Christi, you have a question?
CHRISTI PAUL, AUTHOR, "LOVE ISN`T SUPPOSED TO HURT": Well, you know, what struck me about her mom is that she offered up so easily in that police interrogation that Jodi had mental issues. And I`m wondering if you picked up, Dr. Drew, at all, if there was almost a relief on this mom`s part that finally somebody else was going to have to deal with her daughter other than herself?
PINSKY: No. I actually got desperation that she had been really wanting to get something for this girl, and now, oh, my God, this. But, at least, we`re going to find out what`s really going on here. Jenny, have you ever had anyone in your life that lie, distorted, and made you feel like, you know, I`m desperate to try to understand what`s going on here, but I can`t figure it out?
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Well, that`s what I think the thing is -- that that`s what I think the thing is here. This has gone from being a regular kid who might lie to get out of trouble or a naughty teenager to psychotic and really screwed up and crazy and naughty, although, not crazy at the time of the crime. So, I feel sad for this mother that she`s had this tumultuous time with her daughter.
PINSKY: Yes. And we don`t want another victim here. That`s right. We don`t want to make the mom another victim here. They`ve had to deal with this girl, but I say a little crazy at the time of the murder. I`m going to just bring -- maybe not crazy enough to be insane and not know what she`s doing was right and wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Yes, but crazy enough to done something like this. Thank you, panel.
HUTT: Craze (ph) to do it. Right.
PINSKY: More of the trial. They`re not done for the day quite yet and neither are we. And we have again these exclusive photos of Travis Alexander and his friend with us, the guy that actually introduced Travis to Jodi. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HUGHES, INTRODUCED JODI AND TRAVIS: You know, Travis is always looking for Miss Alexander. And, so, I thought I`d introduce them and I told Travis about her and he goes, well, introduce us. And so, I brought them together and they continued to grow their relationship from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, and then, it sort of wilted after that. Back with my HLN anchor co-host, Christi Paul, and the panel with us. We have new never- before-seen photos of Travis Alexander. You`re going to be looking at some of them as -- there we go now. He was on a trip to Colorado, a vacation he took with friends.
Joining us to discuss is David Hughes. He was Travis` mentor and friend. He was on this trip. David, tell me something we need to know about Travis as you knew him that you want us to know.
HUGHES: Well, Travis was one of the most amazing people, and he certainly made an impact on virtually everyone that ever met him. He was the light of the room and the light of the room and people gravitated towards him. You know, I just -- I`m often reminded of what it was like being at his funeral. And, you know, it was over 100 degrees in Riverside, California.
And there`s hundreds of people surrounded around his grave site in suits and dresses and black attire in over 100-degree weather. And I remember that the funeral director said, you know, I normally don`t say anything at a funeral, you know, at a burial, but I didn`t know Travis, but I can tell you -- he even said a few words, you know, at the service, and just said, I know this man was well loved. And that is so true, you know. He didn`t even know him but just because of the people --
PINSKY: And you know what else, David. Here`s the other thing -- and by the way, if anyone on my panel has any question, please raise your hand and I will call on you here to ask David any questions you have. But, he not only was well-loved, he was well-loved by really amazing people. I don`t know if you guys have noticed this.
The kinds of people I`ve been interviewing, the people that have spoken on his behalf. Really great rich friends he had.
HUGHES: Yes.
PINSKY: And you guys have any questions for David? Jenny, is that you -- oh, Mark, go ahead.
HUTT: Yes. Oh.
PINSKY: Jenny. Lady`s first. Jenny.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ladies first, please.
HUTT: Thank you. Yes. I mean, was there ever anybody who took issue with Travis, because it doesn`t seem like there ever was. He seems like he was just the greatest guy other than these experts who are trying to paint him as something other than who he was. Was there ever anyone who said he was potentially dangerous or abusive?
HUGHES: Absolutely not. You know, everybody really liked him. And you know, I`ve heard -- you know, there`s another gentleman who didn`t even really know him but has been going around doing a lot of media circuits and stuff. And, you know, and he said that Travis -- that he had a temper. And I`m like, the only time he`s ever met Travis was that formal business setting.
He didn`t even know Travis. I mean, Travis went up. You know, you saw the pictures of the Colorado trip. And we -- you know, that was the topic -- I live on the foothills of the Rocky Mountain National Forest, and that`s one of the thousand places to see and that`s one of the things that Travis really wanted to do was see all those places.
And so, when he came and stayed at my house and he`d been there a number of times and we decided to go up to the Rocky Mountain National Forest, just my son and me and Travis.
PINSKY: David, I`ve got to go to break. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for sharing what you know about Travis with us. I`ve got to get everyone back to the trial after the break. Stay with us.
HUGHES: You bet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. The trial is still ongoing, but it`s getting towards the end of the day. Let`s get you back into the courtroom and finish this thing up right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you`re aware that Miss Andrews at the time that Mr. Alexander was dating her was about 10 or 11 years younger than he was?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, when she had this discussion with him about going too far, did she take some of the blame for him kissing her and him having contact with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Lack of foundation, source.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you review an e-mail from Miss Andrews?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. May I approach?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You may.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m showing you exhibit (ph) 85 in the second paragraph.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. So, is she talking to him about actually blaming herself for him kissing her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And throughout the conversation that you reviewed between Miss Andrews and Mr. Alexander, is she talking about, as you said before, feeling used and that he thinks of sex too much?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that somebody who you would consider to be sexually humiliated or degraded?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That Mr. Alexander is sexually humiliated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no, I would not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And you`ve reviewed or listened to an audiotape from -- with -- that is a phone sex tape between Mr. Alexander and Miss Harris, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this was May 10th of 2008 (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And in listening to the words on that particular tape, does Mr. Alexander sound uncomfortable?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he doesn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he sound humiliated?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he doesn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Miss Arias say anything to him that degrades him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not that I can remember.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. On the other hand, did you speak with Miss Arias about some of the sexual contact that she had with Mr. Alexander?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, do you remember being asked questions about some of their first sexual contact between the two of them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, was Miss Arias uncomfortable with it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She thought it was too much too soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So -- but she went along with it anyway, right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is that something she talked to you about that she did several times throughout the relationship?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did she feel that she got more attention from Mr. Alexander when she gave him the sexual things that he wanted?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, leading.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. In fact, she said that --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, beyond the scope.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, judge -- may we approach?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can ask a follow-up question. She answered yes. You can ask a follow-up question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Then, following up on that, what did she say to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, she said this in an e-mail or one of those written forms -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, lack of foundation. E-mail or --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether it`s an e-mail or an instant message, does it matter to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it written communication?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was written communication.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And what is it that you learned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, lack of foundation. Source.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approach, please.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: That does it for today. Next up, my jury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: OK now. Trial is done for the day and it`s time for dr. Drew`s jurors. With me to discuss further, co-host, HLN anchor, Christi Paul. Now, Christ, the great good news for you today is that Katie Wick and Stacey Fairrington, our jurors are big fans of yours? So, I`m going to --
PAUL: Oh, how nice!
PINSKY: Yes, indeed. So, I`m going to hand it off to you to interview the jurors.
PAUL: Well, thank you, ladies. I`m just wondering, we know the next phase of this is that the jury is going to get to ask LaViolette a question. I want to know what you want to hear from her that you haven`t heard yet.
PINSKY: Great question.
KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": My question probably to LaViolette would be explain your bias. Explain why you used the same evidence, but you use it -- it`s advantageous for Jodi when it`s disadvantageous for Travis. Why do you choose and pick and use which evidence you want when it`s clear that you have bias for Jodi. Can you explain that for us?
PINSKY: Stacey, you?
STACEY FAIRRINGTON, DR. DREW "JUROR": You know, I think I would ask her why is it so difficult to answer yes and no questions.
WICK: Yes.
FAIRRINGTON: I don`t understand why you can`t say yes or you just can`t say no, it seems like the easiest way to answer a question to me. And she just really struggled with that in this case.
PINSKY: Yes. She seems rigid. She seems offensive. She doesn`t contemplate things when she`s giving new evidence that we all hear in the courtroom. I agree with you, guys. I know those questions will be asked, because I`ve seen what these jurors do. They are good. Thank you, ladies. Christi, back with you for the last call after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right. Christi, first day on the job for this with this trial, what are your final thoughts?
PAUL: Well, we got late word, of course, Dr. Drew, that LaViolette is not the last witness for the defense. So, I`m looking forward to see who`s going to call next.
PINSKY: That we will see, I suppose. Tomorrow or soon after that. Thank you, Christi for joining us. Thank you all for watching.
PAUL: Thank you.
PINSKY: We`ll see you next time. "After Dark -- "HLN After Dark" starts right now.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN HOST: Tonight`s bold accusation, Jodi`s killing story is impossible. Tonight, 12 jurors here in studio, and you, our online jury at home, will decide if Jodi Arias is guilty of telling is story that`s impossible.
She says she dropped the camera, was attacked, and chased by Travis, shot him, stabbed him 29 times, and slit his throat. Tonight, I`ll prove to you, our online jury at home, and our in-studio jury that the story is impossible.
END
