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Piers Morgan Live
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Arrested After Shootout; Boat Owners Stepson Tells of Finding Suspect; Boston Crowds Cheer After Suspect Arrested; Witness Describes Final Shootout with Tsarnaev; Acquaintance Talks of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
Aired April 20, 2013 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Jubilation and justice in Boston tonight. Welcome to the special PIERS MORGAN LIVE with breaking news on the arrest of the Boston Marathon bombing suspect. The most wanted man in America is wounded, but he's in custody. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was cornered in a boat in the backyard of a private home. Here's incredible video of one of his final shootouts with police.
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(GUNFIRE)
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MORGAN: This picture shows a 19-year-old Chechen immigrant injured on the ground as law enforcement officials surround him. He was taken by ambulance to the hospital. And all across the city, cheering crowds.
(CHEERING)
MORGAN: Chanting USA, USA. This is the scene in Watertown while hundreds gathered to celebrate his arrest after a tense two days.
Of course, what the suspect and his brother, who died early Friday morning are accused of doing is horrific. Setting off bombs at the marathon that killed three and wounded over 180 over people. The suspects shot to death a young MIT policeman. And people are paying tribute tonight to the victims at a memorial.
As for the manhunt, it's over.
Earlier, President Obama had this to say about the stunning turn of events.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All in all, it's been a tough week. But we've seen the character of our country once more. And as president, I'm confident that we have the courage and the resilience and the spirit to overcome these challenges and to go forward as one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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MORGAN: Police found the suspect after getting a tip from a man named David Hinneberry. He owns the boat that the suspect was hiding in. Saw the accused bomber inside and called the authorities.
His stepson, Robert Duffy, joins me now on the phone.
Mr. Duffy, thank you so much for joining me.
What an extraordinary day for your family, indeed, the city of Boston. Tell me exactly what happened.
ROBERT DUFFY, STEPSON OF DAVID HENNEBERRY: First, I'd just like to start by thanking everybody in law enforcement for doing an unbelievable job. I mean, hats off to everybody about how quickly this -- you know, literally 20, almost 30 hours ago, photos released. Here we are with some form of closure. Of course, it will take a lot longer for closure for a lot of the victims and the families.
But basically, what I'm to understand as it's been told to me, the events that took place with my stepfather and my mother, as soon as the outdoor ban was lifted from the Boston and the metropolitan surrounding area, they went outside for a breath of fresh air for the first time all day, being one of the nicer days in early spring Boston. They were out in the backyard perusing, and David had walked the perimeter of the yard. And the wind had picked up during the day and the tarp on his winterized boat had sort of been flapping in the wind, which was very strange, despite all the blizzard we've had all year, and everything was intact.
Upon further inspection, he got closer and realized one of the retention straps had been cut, not chafed, not broken or unhooked. There was a small amount of blood or what appeared to be blood on the tarp. He grabbed his stepladder to look inside. Maybe an animal, a squirrel or something had nested inside, not really sure. He basically stuck his head under the tarp, noticed a pool of blood. It was a blue tarp. It was partly cloudy at the time, so he really couldn't get a clear view of the forward of the boat, but he noticed there was something crumpled in a ball in the forward portion.
He became an absolute hero at that moment. Instead of being a hero at the moment and yelling at the -- what we now know was the suspect, he did the right thing, as law enforcement had urged. He jumped off the ladder, called 911. They were within foot-traffic distance immediately. My mother and David were evacuated from the home. They left their cell phones behind, which put my sister and our immediate family into panic because we couldn't reach them --
(LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Right. DUFFY: -- for almost 40 minutes. No one knew where or what was going on. We could see their house on satellite television. They had the House zeroed in on.
In the end, law enforcement -- what we're putting together is law enforcement immediately swooped in, evacuated them, brought them to a safe haven, to an unknown neighbor's house. And from there, the law enforcement swept in, got this kid in another gun fight, and he managed to escape from that gun fight to where later they apprehended him in another gun fight.
My mother --
MORGAN: I'll stop you there. We have new footage of the gun fight you're talking about. Really, quite dramatic. Take a look at this.
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MORGAN: When all this was happening, were you in the knowledge that your parents were safe?
DUFFY: No.
MORGAN: Or did you think they were still back in the house.
DUFFY: Absolutely. As the bullets were coming across the television, my sister and I were in close communication with each other. We only saw the bullets. We only heard that there was a man covered in blood in the boat. We couldn't reach the household. They had already been evacuated, unbeknownst to us. The phone line at the residence, for whatever reason, whether it was cut or dropped, it was giving us a busy signal. It was absolutely horrifying for approximately 40 minutes. We had not idea what was going on.
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MORGAN: Terrifying.
DUFFY: Yet, the reports on the television were a bloody body in the boat. I'm thinking, oh, my stepfather, this is awful. We couldn't get in touch with anyone. It was definitely horrifying.
MORGAN: When was the moment you were able to speak to them again and realize they were safe?
DUFFY: It was communicated to me -- what I did was, after a joint effort between my wife, myself with a cell phone, a residential phone -- so we had three phones contacting every possible number we could, to no avail, that I literally threw the phone down, ran out the back door, jumped in my vehicle, left my home here in Natick and went to my father's home in Natick to see if I could communicate better through my business and the several phones I had there. My sister contacted me within five minutes of me arriving. She said, "Mom's called, they're safe, they were evacuated." Apparently, one of the police officers or someone must have handed a telephone to them, and said you can tell people you're safe. At that point, my tears of horror went to tears of joy.
MORGAN: Amazing.
DUFFY: I can't even express how unbelievable it was.
MORGAN: Quite an amazing few hours for you and your family. Do send them our very best. I think the quick thinking of your stepfather played a major role in securing the capture of this character --
DUFFY: Absolutely.
MORGAN: -- who was the most wanted man in America.
DUFFY: Absolutely.
MORGAN: Really quite impressive by him.
DUFFY: Absolutely.
MORGAN: Congratulations to him and thank you for joining me.
Let's go to CNN's Poppy Harlow, who's live in Boston.
Poppy, some jubilant scenes replacing scenes of tension and stress for the last few days.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Piers. I think this is the first time a lot of people have smiled this entire week, through all of this tragedy.
And I want to show our viewers what I witnessed tonight. I filmed this on my iPhone. We ran into this group of about 400 kids from Northeastern University, Berkeley College of Music, all gathered in the middle of the street. They filled the street up. I want our viewers to listen in to what they were chanting. They were yelling USA, USA. There were saying, this is Boston, this is Boston. Let's see if we can listen in for a moment.
STUDENTS: USA, USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
HARLOW: Just a really incredible scene to literally run into as we turn the corner. This was about 20 minutes after the news came out that they had captured that second suspect. They were jubilant. I asked these college kids, were you really scared? They said, absolutely, we were scared. They said they feel a real sense of relief now. They told me, we felt definite fear this entire week. I spoke to one of the student, Myles Marcus (ph). I think he really sums it up well, the feeling that is in this city tonight. Listen.
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MYLES MARCUS (ph), BOSTON RESIDENT: We're celebrating getting the suspects. I feel relieved and feel like everything else is relieved. We've all been watching the TV, the computer, the live updates since the beginning of this whole. I feel like I can go back to school now and know that I'm safe.
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HARLOW: I feel that I can go back to the school now and be safe. That sums it up.
And it didn't just happen here in Boston. It happened across America. It happened 30,000 feet up into the air. We heard this story about a girl who saw the news on Twitter and told a flight attendant about it and the pilots on a flight from Atlanta to Chicago tonight announced it and the entire plane erupted in applause, Piers. I'll tell you, I've been flying back from Texas where I've been all week on that tragedy and everyone on the plane was glued to their mobile phone looking, saying did they catch him yet? Did they catch him yet? So it went from anxiety on my flight this morning to jubilation on the flight tonight when the news came out.
But I do want to qualify this by just saying, you know, the Boston police tweeted out, when you look at the jubilation, remember the victims, remember the four people that were killed in this. So I want to show them to our viewers. Just so we don't forget what tragedy has hit this year, Lingzi Lu, that Chinese student studying at Boston University; Krystle Campbell, running in the marathon; Martin Richard, that beautiful 8-year-old boy, and, of course, last night, Officer Sean Collier, who was killed. And as we speak, 58 people wounded in this horrific terror attack still in the hospital, three of them in critical condition, two of them children, Piers. The city has a long way to go, but tonight, a very big sigh relief.
MORGAN: Absolutely.
Poppy, thank you very much indeed.
Let's go to CNN's Jason Carroll, who is down in Watertown, which had been like a battle zone for the last few days.
Jason, but tonight, a lot of happy people, lot of smiling people, replacing all the tension of the last few days.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We did see that, Piers. As each emergency vehicle pulled out, they were met by neighbors who came out of their homes, applauded and cheered and honked their horns. Right now, if you look behind me you can see the flood lights are on their house, down the street, over to the left of the corner there. You still have police finishing up their work.
All of this really -- police are really thanking that one homeowner who came out of his house after he was on lockdown, saw something suspicious in his backyard. Went out to look at his boat, you'll recall, saw the blood on the boat. Then looked closer, saw there was a bloody man inside. He went back to his house, he then calls 911. Emergency crews show up, the FBI, SWAT. Police are using their tech knowledge, helicopter, using infrared to get the exact location of where the suspect was. Then, neighbors tell us, then the fear strikes. You hear the gunfire. One neighbor said he was sitting on his couch. Piers, he came outside, heard 20 shots, went back inside. By the time we got here, we didn't hear those shots but we heard the flash bangs. Then there was silence. After that, more shots. Finally, at 8:37, I remember looking at my Blackberry and seeing the tweet that came from the police that said, "Suspect in custody. Officers sweeping the area." And then you could hear a round of applause erupting from different spots of the neighborhood.
I actually spoke to one of the neighbors who lives just a few doors down from where it all happened. He talked about what the ordeal was like for him and his family.
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DAN CANTOR, BOSTON RESIDENT: My family was on lockdown all day inside. I was primarily worried my two kids. I have a 3-year-old and an 8-year-old. Id didn't want them getting all wrapped up in the chaos. So when we heard gunfire, we basically went under our bed.
It's a horrible day in Boston. It's great that it's ended but it's been a miserable one.
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CARROLL: You heard it there, Piers, a horrible, miserable day, not just for the people living here in this neighborhood but for all of the people here in the city of Boston.
But it was interesting and relieving to see how the day ended, to see the officers shaking each other's hands, patting each other on the back. The cheers from the neighborhood. I think one of the spokespeople from the FBI said it best. He said, the pain and the anger no longer a threat here in Boston -- Piers?
MORGAN: Jason, thanks very much indeed.
I want to bring in CNN's Chris Lawrence. He's at Beth Israel Hospital in Boston.
What's going on down there? It's a bit quieter than it was earlier.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Piers. You can see some of the state police officers taking over the hospital right behind me. Wherever this investigation goes from here, it will start right here at Beth Israel Hospital because, inside, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is being treated by the same medical team trying to save his brother's life almost exactly 24 hours ago. We're told Dzhokhar is in serious condition. Police say when they found him in that board, he was covered in blood and that he likely suffered his injuries during that initial shootout on early Friday morning. He was on the run, probably wounded for about 24 hours, which probably leads to some of the injuries he still sustains right now.
When we were talking with some of the folks here, you can see that there is a heavy guard around this hospital. We walked around the whole complex. There are state police posted on every corner here.
Again, he's being evaluated and treated by the medical staff here. At some point, we hear that the FBI, not the hospital, the FBI will be updating his medical condition -- Piers?
MORGAN: Chris, thanks so much indeed.
We go to CNN's Susan Candiotti, also in Watertown, with more on the dramatic end to the manhunt.
Susan, what a week of roller-coaster emotions it's been, everyone connected with what's happened in Boston. It's ended happily tonight. We have to keep reminding people so many had their lives so badly effected, whether they lost limbs or they're in hospital tonight or lost loves ones that were killed. It's been a tragic week in many ways but it ended at least with the comfort of knowing that the two people who the police believe are responsible are no longer a threat to the public.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I felt the exact same emotions. There was the high feeling to know that they had captured the second of the two suspects. They had captured the second suspect, having -- the first one having died in a gun battle last night. Immediately, my thoughts, your thoughts go toward the victims, the three who were killed in the marathon bombing and then, of course, the police officer who was fatally shot last night.
Piers, it was 24 hours ago when you and I were talking about that. Of course, it turns out it did have a connection. Of course, it turns out that it did. We were wondering whether it could be -- that something -- that all of this would come to an end as quickly as it did. And yet, when you think about it, there are all those victims that will have to live with their injuries as well the rest of their lives as well as the families of those who survived.
But as you think about what happened today, riding around the streets of Watertown throughout the day with people who are literally trapped in their homes, afraid to go out, talking to them, saying to us, telling us how surreal it was, those empty streets. It was as though you could see tumbleweed rolling down them. It was so quiet, it was like a ghost town. And then to have military people and SWAT teams rolling through towns with high-powered weapons on this very windy day here, it was frightening for everyone involved. And then to see that moment when my colleague, Drew Griffin, heard those gunshots. The next thing you saw were all kinds of police vehicles and SWAT teams. The image I'll remember is that one SWAT team van that went speeding past us with the back doors flopping open and it looked as though the officers inside, who were geared up, looking like they were holding on for dear life. It seemed that way. And then finally learning that the end had come.
Interesting, the technology they used as well. We had seen helicopters flying over but no one really knew at the time what that was all about. But they have that imaging equipment they can us to determine where in fact there was someone in that boat after that man noticed that something was going on, then noticing the blood. And then using a robot to remove the tarp from him so that the officers didn't get too close, possibly endangering themselves, not knowing whether he had explosives strapped to his body. Then finally, making the approach and taking him in. They said he was covered with blood. There was an exchange, police said, that he was covered with blood. They thought he was weak from what happened the day before in that deadly gun battle that took the life of his brother.
But now a sigh of relief. Jason told you all about it, cheers going up, people shaking hands, chants of USA, USA. Police vehicles literally being swarmed by people as they passed through this very intersection on their way back home. It's been a quite a 24 hours -- Piers?
MORGAN: It certainly has.
And there's a very moving statement released tonight by the Richard family.
CANDIOTTI: That's right.
MORGAN: This is the family of the little boy, Martin Richard. This poor man who saw his 8-year-old son killed, his little daughter has already had her leg removed and his wife suffered serious head injuries, and he released a statement on behalf of the whole family, saying: "Tonight, our community is once again free from these two men. None of this will bring our beloved Martin back or reverse the injuries these men inflicted on our family and nearly two hundred others. We continue to pray for healing and for comfort on the long road that lies ahead for every victim and their loved ones. Tonight, our family applauds the entire law enforcement community for a job well done, and trusts that our justice system will now do its job."
MORGAN: Extremely eloquent words.
Susan Candiotti, thank you very much.
When we come back after the break, the dramatic time line, a look at how the manhunt began and how it ended.
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USA! USA! USA! USA!
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MORGAN: It was an extraordinary series of events that led to the capture of the bombing suspect. We want to show you exactly how it all unfolded.
Here's CNN's Tom Foreman -- Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Officials are going to study this for quite some times because police officers up there did something that's never quite been done before. They essentially established a capture net for this suspect and enlisted the help of 4.5 million people, the population of the whole city to help them.
Here's how they did it. Basically, they figured out where they thought he would be in one of these six towns here, about 300,000 people living there. They said to everyone, lock your doors, go inside, clear the streets so there's nobody moving except this guy. Then they narrowed it down further. They focused on Watertown in particular. Again, they said, keep your doors locked. They flooded the zone with police officers and they started cutting off all access in and out of this area.
How did they do that? Among other things, they asked 5,500 taxi drivers around Boston, stay away, don't go there. They shut down subways and buses. They asked businesses to close. Fenway Park canceled a ball game. Other places said to their workers, don't come in, we're not going to operate today. They shut down schools, public schools, private schools, universities like Harvard, MIT, all shut down. Beyond that, they put pressure on the trains, do not let people hop on and get out of town easily. And even more security at the airport.
Look, you can see what's happening around Watertown here. They effectively put up a net, capture net and they started squeezing in the belief this was caught in the middle of it all.
Now, let's put this all away and zoom into where he was found. That's was the real proof in this plan. They said if we can just keep him there and keep asking people to look, somebody will spot him, and that house with the red car behind it, that's exactly what happened. A man looked out into his backyard where he had his boat and he saw a smear of blood on the cover of that boat, looked inside, according to authorities, and saw somebody hiding there, called the police, and that's how this extraordinary manhunt ended.
MORGAN: Thanks, Tom. Absolutely amazing when you put it all together like that.
Joining me on the phone is Bob Goodman, a witness to the shootout. He lives on Franklin Street, three houses away from the scene where suspect number two was apprehended on that boat.
Mr. Goodman, it's all over for you and the other residents in that area. It must be a huge relief to you all.
BOB GOODMAN, SHOOTING WITNESS (voice-over): It's a tremendous relief for all of us. It's been an extremely tense day. We were put on lockdown from early this morning. Everyone in the neighborhood -- it was quite eerie -- had obviously their doors locked. All the blinds were drawn. There was not a single person using the street. You had the sense of almost terror because you knew the person was in the vicinity. We were on the edge of that 20-block grid. You were holding your breath and looking around nervously all day long. We had FBI and National Guard in our back yard inspecting the shed and a bulk head. They were doing that to some of the other neighbor's yards as well. So we had the sense that he could be right next door.
MORGAN: And when you heard he really was nearly next door hiding in that boat belonging to your neighbor, what was your reaction?
GOODMAN: I was -- well, you know, shocked. What had happened is they lifted the ban. Ironically, it was because of the ban being lifted that that person felt free enough to get up and check the perimeter of his house and inspect his boat. We got -- we went also -- we got out to walk out dogs and when we were at the end of the block, all of a sudden, about 25 police cars came screaming down Franklin Street and we knew immediately that something was up so we essential ran back. Then, it was just a matter of minutes before armored vehicles, SWAT teams, et cetera, et cetera, came into the neighborhood. It's been a bit of a war zone. I'm on my porch right now and a lot of the street is still cordoned off on the crime area because the evidence is still being collected.
MORGAN: You may still get a good night's sleep finally after a very long week.
GOODMAN: It has been a very, very long week for myself and my two sons and for many of us in Boston who have endured the bombings on Monday and especially the Watertown folks who were on edge all day long today.
MORGAN: I'm just so relieved for you and all the residents down there that it's over. It's been a real traumatic time. And I think the way you all came together and worked together was incredibly impressive and I thank you for that.
Thank you for joining me.
GOODMAN: Well, thank you very much. Pleasure to speak with you.
MORGAN: We're learning more all the time about the bombing suspects.
Joining me on the phone is Bassel Nasri, a friend of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.
Welcome to you, Mr. Nasri.
I would imagine like so many people that knew this young man you have fixed feelings about what is going on here because everyone seems to be painting a picture of a nice guy who has clearly been turned in some grotesque manner. BASSEL NASRI, FRIEND OF DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV: Yes, sure. You heard from many people that he was a nice guy. I don't need to repeat that, I guess. But it's true. We used to play soccer together. We used to hang out a few times. We weren't too close -- we were more acquaintances than friends. But he was really mostly a pretty good guy in that sense. He would also like ask for -- if you needed any help with anything. So I'm really surprised at the outcome of what happened during the past few weeks or so.
MORGAN: The picture that's being painted by some who knew the family is that he was enthrall of his older brother who was six, seven years older than him and had clearly become more and more fundamentalist in his Islamic beliefs. Did you get any sense when you spoke to Dzhokhar that he was getting very religious suddenly or had suddenly changed his political sentiments?
NASRI: Not at all, to be honest. He would -- I would -- I would name him as very unreligious, to be honest. I never really thought him to be religious at all.
The thing about him is that I guess he followed -- and his brother who is more probably like a father figure to him, since his father is all the way across the world, so I guess he was very influenced heavily by his brother, in that sense.
MORGAN: When you heard that it was Dzhokhar, the FBI were looking for, what was your reaction to that?
NASRI: To be honest, the first time I saw the picture of the suspects on -- I saw the picture on Reddit, the picture of the suspects, you know, those were the blurry kind, at first I thought there was some resemblance there, but not enough to contact any authorities. It was probably bad on my part not to do so.
But then after -- when everything unraveled with the whole evacuation of U Mass Dartmouth and all that kind of stuff, I realized that like it was actually him. I was -- at first I was in disbelief. But it turns out that it was him.
MORGAN: You were both at U Mass Dartmouth. And apparently he was even as recently as Wednesday, leading a perfectly normal life on campus, attending various events, including a party.
NASRI: Yes. I don't know about that. The last time I saw him was two Mondays ago. Not the Monday of the bombing, the Monday before that is when he gave me a ride to a soccer event that we were holding off-campus.
MORGAN: And how did he seem to you?
NASRI: He seemed very fine. He seemed as usual. He had just got his car back from his brother who was borrowing it from him. So he seemed fine. and it was just like regular conversation with him, like -- it was a 10-minute drive or whatever and we were just talking about soccer and that kind of stuff. MORGAN: I mean, how do you explain that so many people have come out today -- I've been watching it all day, thinking how can this 19- year old -- I have got a 19-year-old son who's about three days older.
So I'm trying to think if a kid of that age -- he's not a kid, he's not a child. He's a young man. He seems to be perfectly normal to all the people like you that had recent dealings with him, never threatening, not overtly religious, not particularly political. And yet he's been responsible for one of the worst terror atrocities in modern American history.
Do you have any possible, plausible, logical --
(CROSSTALK)
NASRI: I would say sibling influence is probably a big, big factor of that kind of thing. You'd be surprised of what like an older sibling can get a younger sibling to do. We still don't know all the facts, that's why I'm very glad that he was -- that the Boston police were able to capture him alive so we can get more about the -- more info on this topic, because we don't know all the information.
We didn't -- we don't really know how, like if -- how he was coerced maybe into doing this. We don't really know what happened. So I'm looking forward to knowing more about this and interviews of him, hopefully, when he gets better and gets out of the hospital.
MORGAN: But he never gave you any sense of being anti-American or disenchanted with his life?
NASRI: No, not at all.
MORGAN: At university or anything?
NASRI: I would say he shares an American lifestyle really more than anything. So I wouldn't say he's anti-American at all.
MORGAN: Does he speak with a particularly pronounced accent? He's been an American for the last 8-9 years.
NASRI: No, no accent at all.
MORGAN: So you say he just sounds like a regular American?
NASRI: Yes, yes, he does.
MORGAN: What has been the reaction of your friends at U Mass? Because I mean, it just seems so shocking. His older brother clearly had much more visible signs of possibly becoming extremist. But there's nothing relating to Dzhokhar at all. It must be a huge shock to all of you, isn't it?
NASRI: It is a big shock. In fact ,the community here that I've got to know was pretty much in the same kind of (inaudible) of disbelief that like we couldn't imagine this individual doing something this atrocious. MORGAN: It's an extraordinary state of affairs. But I'm very grateful to you, Mr. Nasri, for joining me, because you do give a very interesting perspective on what he was like. So thank you very much.
NASRI: I would like to mention one last thing.
MORGAN: Yes.
NASRI: I understand you're pressed on time, but I'd like to mention that the -- I am Syrian in nationality and the Syrian event is still going on. The two-year-plus of this dictator, Bashar al-Assad, still going and killing his people. It's still going on. And I understand that this is a huge event here in America, but I believe this is a huge worldwide crisis that's still going on. And --
MORGAN: I think nobody -- listen, nobody would dispute that. And I certainly understand -- I certainly understand why -- yes, listen, I totally understand why you would want to express your feelings about that. There are many events going in the world, not least of which Syria, which we will certainly be returning to very quickly.
So have no fear of that.
NASRI: Thank you very much. Thank you very much for that.
MORGAN: Thank you for joining me.
NASRI: No problem.
MORGAN: Coming up next, did they act alone? I'll talk to former CIA operative Bob Baer and CNN national security analyst Fran Townsend.
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RICHARD DESLAURIERS, FBI, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Today the city of Boston, the city of Cambridge and the city of Watertown and many other communities can breathe a sigh of relief knowing that two perpetrators who caused so much pain and anguish are no longer a threat to our personal safety and to our communities.
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MORGAN: Tonight one suspect dead, one suspect in custody. The focus of the investigation shifts to this question: did the Boston Marathon bomb suspects act alone? Joining me now is CNN contributor and former CIA operative Bob Baer; also CNN national security analyst, Fran Townsend, joins us on the phone. Bob, I'm going to start with you. Are we satisfied that it was just these two brothers, that the FBI seemed to be indicating that is the case, but could they have been part of a wider group?
BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Well, I mean, you know, my suspicion and it's a suspicion is that they were. Why did the Russians come to Washington and said look into the older brother, Tamerlan?
That's -- they didn't -- they don't do that as a matter of routine. They have some piece of information that he had connections, probably in the Caucuses, that he had some sort of backing or had been influenced by some group, whether it's Al Qaeda or another group doesn't really matter. So we do know that for almost -- that's almost certain at this point.
Whether they needed it for money, whether they picked the target, that's another question. And what they're going to be doing now is going through their cell phones, text messages, what's up, all, you know, letters, chat rooms, everything else, travel.
And you'll see the CIA and the FBI going to the neighboring countries with Chechnya. And that would be Azerbaijan and Georgia asking those same questions. This is going to take a while to pin this down. And sometimes you just can't do it.
On the other hand, so many of these bombings are young people who are trying to mimic Osama bin Laden and this very well may be the case.
MORGAN: Fran, did this meeting, the FBI have admitted having with the older brother, Tamerlan, through the request of the Russians, they insist that although they interviewed him and looked into this, they found no connections to terror groups. But clearly he then perpetrated this appalling atrocity at the Boston Marathon.
Has there been an intelligence failing here?
FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean, we need to know more details. You know, look, Russia has an incentive, right, to identify, just like any other foreign country, identify to the FBI, anybody who may be a threat inside our border.
But part of the season that the Russians and other countries do this is their own self-protection, right? So they've told us that put us on notice.
The fact is the FBI would have done a series of checks, the statement they issued today says they did that, they did the interviews, they talked to family members and they didn't see any reason to be concerned.
Now, in retrospect, of course, that looks like a horrible failure. But the fact is based on what they knew at the time it may have been right. What we hear from his friends now is that his radicalization has only been far more recent than that, you know, sometime in the last year or so. He spent six months in Russia in January to -- I think it was July of 2012.
And so they'll be interested in that travel. His radicalization may have come much later. And at the time the FBI did it, it might have been a reasonable conclusion.
MORGAN: Bob, will the FBI and the CIA, for that matter, be concerned now that if these two brothers can be radicalized while living in America, and living, as the friend just said there, you know, pretty normal American-style lives, particularly the younger boy, you know, who didn't have a trace of an accent; he went to local schools.
He had, as he said, a very -- a normal American lifestyle. And yet he's turned clearly, whether it's his brother's influence or what it was, if that can happen to a boy like that, is there a concern there must be the possibility of other young boys like this out there, who may also be turned?
BAER: Yes, there's going to be a certain amount of panic in Washington. How many of these cells are there? There are -- are they in Los Angeles?
And the other thing we have to consider is we've never looked at the Chechens before. They were always considered enemies of Moscow. And there are hundreds of thousands of Chechen refugees living in this country. We -- and Fran is absolutely right. We've just simply ignored the Russians because they picked their political point, you know, their enemies.
They say this guy's dangerous, send him to Moscow and we'll take care of him. You can't do that. We're not a police state. If you go back to the FBI, they really can't do anything unless a crime's been committed. And clearly these two men did not commit a crime. So there's nothing they can do except question them and turn, you know, walk away.
They would -- it's not a political investigative police force, the FBI. It goes after crimes. So there's, you know, we're really in a bind under American law, what you can do about these sort of things. So I don't -- I think unless we see some horrible dropping of the ball, I don't think this is an intelligence failure. And you know, you know, you think about, in retrospect, it may look like one. But I don't think it is.
MORGAN: And it may, of course, not be, Fran, directly related to Chechnya at all. I mean, there are all sorts of problems there between the Chechens and the Russians. We all know about that. But this could be completely unconnected and much more linked just to a broader Islamic fundamentalism, which the older boy, in particular, seemed to have been getting more and more vested in.
TOWNSEND: That's right, Piers. And so really, the investigation is still at its very beginning stages although one suspect is in custody, the other has been killed, we really need to understand what the motivation was. And the FBI will, you know, it's travel, and it's communications and it's their network. And it's all those things.
You know, the president was very careful to say you can't sort of impute to a group the mindset or ideology of these two. And I think there's real concern in the federal government that if it turns out that it's an Islamic fundamentalism, that this will cause some backlash on the Muslim community. And I think the president was rightly concerned and signaled that in his statement tonight.
MORGAN: Fran Townsend and Bob Baer, thank you both very much indeed.
Coming next, the legal battle, innocent until proven guilty. Then what?
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN (voice-over): The 19-year-old suspect in custody and in the hospital. He hasn't been charged with any crime yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And there are many legal issues being raised by this case against him.
With me now is top attorney Alan Dershowitz.
Alan, you just dropped a bit of a bombshell on me.
Tell me what you just said.
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY: Well, the first thing his lawyer's going to do is going to challenge federal jurisdiction. He's going to say this is an ordinary murder. It involves American citizen. Certainly the killing of the policeman and the shooting of the other policeman doesn't seem to be part of any kind of terrorism.
The federal terrorism statute generally applies to international terrorism. We have no evidence at the moment of that. It requires that the intention be to coerce the government. It has a whole series of things that make it into terrorism.
The lawyers will challenge whether this is federal because they'd rather have it be a state charge, no death penalty in Massachusetts, yes, federal death penalty, but there has to be federal jurisdiction.
MORGAN: If they win this argument and he is found guilty in Massachusetts under their state law, what will happen to him?
DERSHOWITZ: Life imprisonment --
MORGAN: In Massachusetts?
DERSHOWITZ: -- in Massachusetts. The other thing they could probably charge is conspiracy to murder. After all, we don't know precisely what this man did as distinguished from his brother.
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MORGAN: If they can prove that -- and the running theme today seems to be the older brother was a very domineering type who had become immersed in much more fundamentalist Islamic beliefs and may have coerced the younger brother, who's 19 and seems to have had no trace of any of this stuff before, into going along with this, is that any kind of defense?
DERSHOWITZ: It is to a federal crime, because the federal crime requires that he individually intend to coerce the government, to compel the government, to intimidate the government.
If his defense has said, hey, I just went along with my brother; my intent was to please my brother, that would raise the question of whether there really is federal jurisdiction. Now they could also charge him with a conspiracy. And in that way, he has all of his brother's crimes attributable to him.
But conspiracy doesn't carry the death penalty. It only carries life imprisonment.
MORGAN: Would you be intrigued to defend somebody in this position?
DERSHOWITZ: I've done enough defending of unpopular people. But I would like to --
MORGAN: From a legal point of view?
DERSHOWITZ: A legal point of view, there are fascinating issues in this case. Government made a terrible mistake tonight by claiming this public safety exception to Miranda when the police have said there's no public safety issue here, it's solved, it's over.
There are no further threats, but the FBI is still saying there are enough further threats to justify an exception to Miranda. They should have given him a Miranda.
So there are a lot of interesting issues. His youth, the fact that he seems to be very much influenced by his brother. He could probably hold out and try to get some kind of a deal if he's prepared to say whether his brother got training in Chechnya.
He doesn't have very many cards to play --
MORGAN: Since Senators McCain and Graham have said that they want the enemy combatant option for these kind of suspects.
DERSHOWITZ: Impossible. Impossible. There's no way that an American citizen committing a domestic crime in the city of Boston could ever be tried as an enemy combatant, it's off the table. It shows absolute ignorance of the law. It couldn't happen.
MORGAN: In terms of this revelation, that you have got these two brothers who have committed this appalling act -- and the younger one in particular, just seems to have been leading a very regular American life. Does that concern you as an American, that there may be many more out there? And this could be just the start of a whole new wave of terror?
DERSHOWITZ: It does. You know what else concerns me, and you don't want to in any way be critical of what law enforcement did. They did a phenomenal job, but the fact that one young man could close down an entire city, get ballgames postponed, you can imagine some other young kid saying, hey, I want have that kind of influence as well.
So there could be copycat aspects. People are easily influenced by previous experiences, and older brothers and authority figures.
MORGAN: How do you think the trial will go? Where would that be held?
DERSHOWITZ: Well, it'll either be held -- it will start in the federal court in Massachusetts. The lawyer will move to separate out the crimes, certainly of killing the policemen.
There will be a federal magistrate and there will be no bail granted. The trial will probably take place in about six months. The defense attorney may move -- may move to have the trial moved to Western Massachusetts, where there wasn't as much emotional impact.
Jury selection will be very difficult. Anybody who cheered would be excluded from the jury. Anybody who knew anybody who was injured would be excluded.
MORGAN: And of course, he himself, we don't know how badly wounded he is. He looks like he's been hit by gunfire, perhaps on the night before. He may not make it to a trial. We just don't know, do we?
DERSHOWITZ: (Inaudible) make and you know, you have to ask the question: was there really an exchange of gunfire or did they find him in the boat really in an almost semi- -- unconscious way? The reason for not giving him his Miranda warnings is he probably doesn't understand them at this point.
MORGAN: Alan Dershowitz, as always, thank you very much indeed.
DERSHOWITZ: Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming up, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh with more on the suspect's family back in their homeland.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MORGAN: As the manhunt for suspect number two intensified on Friday, family members went in front of the cameras, delivering very different messages about the most wanted men in America. The brothers were vilified by their uncle, but strongly defended by their parents.
ANZOR TSARNAEV, SUSPECTS' FATHER (through translator): Someone framed them. I don't know who exactly did it, but someone did. And being cowards, they shot the boy dead. There are cops like this.
ZUBEIDAT TSARNAEVA, SUSPECTS' MOTHER: My son, Tamerlan, really was a -- got involved in the religion, you know, like religious politics five years ago. So he started following his own religious aspects. And he never, he never told me that he would be like on the side of jihad. He was consult by FBI like for five -- three -- five years. They knew what my son was doing.
MARET TSARNAEV, SUSPECTS' AUNT: My first call to FBI, they could not have done this. Where are evidence? All you're showing, that's just the footage, two guys are walking. And I found it strange. Tamerlan is walking in the front. Dzhokhar is in the back. Why wouldn't they come together, just, you know, together as brother?
RUSLAN TSARNI, SUSPECTS' UNCLE: I say, Dzhokhar, if you're alive, turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, from the injured and from those who lived. Ask forgiveness from these people. We are not requiring forgiveness in this family. He put a shame -- he put a shame on this family, on our family, Tsarnaev family. He put a shame on the entire Chechen ethnicity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried for him, what might happen to him?
ALVI TSARNAEV, SUSPECTS' UNCLE: What can happen to him? They will kill him. It's over, no? It -- right? It's over. What you worry? You don't have to worry about this. What's done is done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that --
ALVI TSARNAEV: He is already dead.
MORGAN: One brother dead, one in custody.
Joining me now on the phone from Dagestan is CNN's Nick Paton Walsh.
Nic, is there likely to be a direct link to the Chechnya influence here? Or from everything that we're seeing, hearing and reading about the older brother in particular, is it more a case of him becoming immersed in Islamic fundamentalism?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a big question, Piers. I mean, there's a possibility of (inaudible) both. There is also the possibility if we don't know exactly his immigration status, where he traveled when.
But it's very possible he left Kyrgyzstan and then came to Russia and Dagestan and (inaudible) 2006, could have been here for perhaps five years in Dagestan. That (inaudible) bit of background why that's important because that would have been a particularly violent period at the end after the second war of Chechen independence when Russia very heavily cracked down on Chechen (inaudible).
After that, some militants kind of spread across the region here in Southern Russia and then a lot of violence began to pop up in this province of Dagestan.
Many of these (inaudible) extremists who were fighting on the Chechen side found roots and homes here in Dagestan and became very much (inaudible) a hotbed unintentionally, of course, in Moscow's view, people with even Al Qaeda links in certain areas (inaudible) Russian (inaudible) have claimed.
We don't know precisely when Tamerlan was in Dagestan. But it is possible he spent some time here in Dagestan in that particularly volatile (inaudible) extremist (inaudible), Piers.
MORGAN: And President Obama spoke to Vladimir Putin today.
Do we have any idea what they discussed?
WALSH: Well, the statement said simply -- I believe it talks about counterterrorism issues. Now of course there is going to be a large question here of precisely what the Russians know about Tamerlan, if he was here for a lengthy period of time. (Inaudible) less about Dzhokhar because of the short period he would have spent in Southern Russia.
But, of course, this points back to the FBI saying that, in the year before, that they did, in fact, question Tamerlan at some particular point at the request of foreign governments. But no one's sure who that is.
But it's entirely possible many people say that that could have been the indication of Russia I spoke to, a spokesperson of Russian (inaudible) about this, (inaudible) he had no comment or certainly no (inaudible) the media at this particular point.
But bear in mind, Dagestan's out here, an intense police presence, Russian security services, having worked very intently over the past few years, past decade, in fact, many say with a very heavy hand to suppress any radicals or extremists. And it's important to point out that, you know, before 2006 when he went to America, it may have been in that climate that Tamerlan was living, Piers.
MORGAN: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much indeed.
It's been a tumultuous week for Boston. The city's spirit is as strong as ever and we're all seeing that. And tomorrow, the Red Sox play again at Fenway Park. I can't think of a better message that Boston can send to the world: we're back.
That's all for us. Our coverage continues now live here on CNN.
