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Suspects' Former Brother-In-Law Speaks; Concern Intel Agencies Not Sharing Info; Suspects' Father Asks About Lawyer

Aired April 24, 2013 - 14:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And as Brian mentioned, CNN's Wolf Blitzer spoke exclusive to a former brother-in-law of one of the suspects. Here was married, at one point, to a sister of the two men implicated in the bombings at the Boston Marathon. Here is some more of the sound about what he had to say about the suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELMIRZA KHOZHGOV, SUSPECT'S FORMER BROTHER-IN-LAW (voice-over): I think that somebody did have influence on the elder brother. And in his turn, elder brother, had the influence on the younger one. I don't - I don't think that anyone who is mentally normal would be wishing death to someone else. I just believe that people are -- knowing Tamerlan for a few years, I remember him as a good person, as a good friend.

But he was searching for religion and I believe that someone helped him, directed him in a wrong direction. So I think it lies somewhere nearby in America in Boston. I believe there are people who if they didn't make him then at least they planted maybe the idea to him that he could do such a thing.

I'm not saying it's not his fault. I'm saying that I hope that he wasn't, you know, the only one. I hope that there are other people who he can still find and we can still question and we can still maybe stop if they're planning something else.

In regards Dzhokhar, he's not innocent, but he was under the influence of an older brother and he was not realizing what he was doing. He's too young, he's just 19 now and for a guy, that's just the starting point in life. And probably his life is ruined now.

I still hope he will seek forgiveness from those he hurt and I hope that people will find strength and maybe forgive him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Joined by Wolf now. This seems to be the most likely scenario, right? The younger brother, obviously strong relationship with the older brother, that's how the influence would work, right?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Yes, the younger brother influenced if not supposedly brainwashed by the older brother. And word of this Misha, this mysterious supposed Armenian who have all things converted to Islam, as you know, Armenia and Islam not necessarily having a great historic relationship.

But he was the one influenced as a convert Islam, the older brother to go ahead and become a radical Muslim fanatic, if you will. So there's a lot of mystery here. There's a lot we don't know even as new incremental details come into play.

CUOMO: But it's always important to get that picture together of who else may be involved.

BLITZER: And the key question of this mysterious Misha, if in fact, there is someone like that. And his former brother-in-law says there is. The uncle says there is. If, in fact, this Misha exists, was he acting alone or was he part of some group, if you will. And those are questions the FBI is going to have to investigate.

CUOMO: Tracing the roots. Now, you had a very special opportunity today, Wolf. Tell us about it.

BLITZER: It was very moving. I just came literally back here to our live shot location from over there. And if you walk one block, that's Boylston Street. For the last several days, you and I have been here. It's been blocked off. It was a crime scene.

You can't get anywhere close to that and now they've opened it up and there's traffic and people walking. It seems almost everyone in this area wants to walk up and down Boylston Street just to show their solidarity, "Boston Strong," just to show things getting back to normal although it's not.

I walked from the first bomb site to the second bomb site. It took me maybe 2 minutes or 3 minutes to walk that right from the finish line of the Boston marathon and just to get a feeling of how far away they were. And the streets are crowded.

But almost everyone I spoke to they wanted to be there, but they're still a little nervous. They're wondering, is this a dangerous area? Should they be looking for backpacks on the street? Should they be looking for packages?

So there is this sense maybe it's coming back to normal, but it will never be really be normal. That was the impression I got just from speaking to folks walking up and down Boylston Street on this important day.

CUOMO: It will be normal, but it will never be the same.

BLITZER: Right. I mean, I've seen that in other parts of the world where there have been terrorist incidents and whether a pizza place in Jerusalem or someplace else. They know it happened, they try to get on as quickly as possible with life, but at the same time, it never really becomes the same as it used to be.

CUOMO: Wolf, thank you very much. Appreciate it. I'm going to get over there too when I get off --

BLITZER: Yes, just walk and it will be very meaningful for you to see it, feel it, and to talk to people there. Speak to some of the shop owners, the restaurant owners, the waitresses and people there because they've been going through hell over these past nine days.

CUOMO: You're totally right, totally right. And when we come back, we're going to go to break, but there are new concerns at America's intelligence agencies about sharing information. So what could they have known? What lists do they have? Who spoke to whom or didn't?

So we're going to speak live with the former CIA and FBI operative who has his own opinions about how to track terrorists. We'll give you the latest when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to Boston. No doubt the capture of the bombing suspects shows the success of coordinated law enforcement, but some say the case is also revealing flaws, gaps in communication and one agency not knowing what another is doing, a criticism heard right after 9/11.

The anticipation was that we would get past these types of snafus, but maybe not. This time the complaint comes from the fact that the FBI interviewed one of these suspects in 2011 after the Russian government made a request.

Now the "Boston Globe" reports Russia made -- quoting the paper now, this is what the "Globe" says, "multiple requests about the suspect." And a congressman told CNN he was aware of the same thing. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GOODLATTE (R), VIRGINIA: We are hearing that and we are also hearing that the Department of Homeland Security had different information than the FBI. They were not apparently sharing that information, so the FBI according to what we now understand did not know that he was in Russia for six months and did not follow up upon his return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Yesterday, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told senators her department received an alert when the suspect left the United States to travel to Russia. But there was no alert when the bombing suspect returned to the U.S. and the secretary explained why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET NAPOLITANO, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I think the fact there, Senator, is that the FBI text alert on him at that point was more than a year old and had expired.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: We're going to go now to two former members of the U.S. intelligence agencies. Bob Baer, he is a former CIA operative and Ty Fairman, who is a former special agent for the FBI.

Ty, I'll start with you. The FBI said it found no terrorist activity after interviewing the suspect and then asked Russia for more info, none came. So the FBI then closed the case.

All right, now, what do you think of that? Is that the right protocol you ask Russia if they have more information even though you can have your own assets on the ground there. If they don't you give any, you close the case? Is that how you think this happened? And if so, is that right?

TY FAIRMAN, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, definitely. You have to understand that the FBI receives thousands of allegations and reports from individuals from foreign intelligence agencies, with allegations. Now, if the report was given that this individual conducted the act of crime, a crime that killed several people, it was violent.

That is one thing. But if it's just an intelligence report or be on the lookout for or suspicion or allegation, then those same rights, the same rights that protects every American citizen and makes this the greatest nation to live in are the same rights that protects anyone that's within our borders.

So if that person has not committed a crime, if there isn't any significant financial activity. If there aren't reports of suspicious behavior or they're not meeting with other individuals that are on our watch list, that person has the same rights as anybody else.

Now, we'll continue to watch them put them on the watch lists. But other than that, once we see there are no issues and we watch them for a period of time. There are other cases. There are other reports. There are other complaints of thousands of other individuals. Each case is taken seriously.

CUOMO: OK, so let me get in there with Bob now. Bob, first of all, we understand that the suspect was on -- in a database not on a watch list, is that relevant? And how do you see this? Is this a situation where you say, wow, we could've gotten lucky and known about this man in advance or is this a situation where we should have known more than we did because of a failed coordination?

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: This thing was preventable. If the FBI was not informed in a timely manner that he had gone to Dagestan and stayed six months, there is no reason that the FBI should reopen this case. Likewise, if there were multiple requests about Tamerlan coming from Russians and the FBI didn't know about it, it wasn't the FBI that dropped the ball.

But if you take all the totality of information we had about this man, the fact that he was in New Hampshire buying gun powder. The fact that he was going away for six months and leaving his wife and child and going to an area where there is training, where he would have run into (inaudible).

And it's information is not given to the FBI, we can't hold the FBI responsible. As I understand, this needs to be checked out, there was an order from the order from the Department of Justice not to profile people like him just on general purpose. You're absolutely right.

They have to commit a crime for the FBI to open up a full field investigation. There was no crime so they didn't do it. It was the system that failed us in this situation. And we were promised for the last ten years the big data, the algorithms and data analytics and the rest of it would take care of another 9/11.

And I think this administration is embarrassed and the system is embarrassed that these promises weren't met. And I think it comes down to that and that's why you're seeing these press releases almost coming out in the press saying this was entirely home grown. There are no connections.

There is nothing that could have been done about it. I think in all fairness if an FBI agent has given all the information, he would've reopened this case.

CUOMO: So what do you think of that, Ty? I mean, is there just going to be a certain degree of lapse in all of these situations because of the volume and randomness? Can we do better? Should we be learning from this situation?

FAIRMAN: You know, we can do better, but the problem is, the same rights we have are the same rights that anyone visiting or residing in the U.S. illegally or legally they have. Take for example I just came from a conference yesterday with the African-American church gun coalition. It's the same issues.

Felons, people with mental illnesses can buy weapons. There's violent crimes being committed all over this nation and thousands of people are dying. Well, we have the same issue. The FBI still deals with that. Local law enforcement deals with that.

But then we have this more complex issue dealing with foreigners that come into the United States. And you're right, you can't just profile and you can't spend all of your time just watching someone for years and years and there's no proof that they're doing anything.

Now, if there's no further complaints or nothing substantial to say that this individual is an active or legitimate threat then those agents have to move on to the next case. And remember, each agent is still carrying a basic case load.

And it's a finite number of agents on the squads. The entire FBI force is not working international terrorism. There are other things going on. So we're limited with our numbers. The system, you're right, there's lapse in the system and it has to get better.

CUOMO: Right. Bob, did you want to get in there? BAER: Yes, look, we're being overwhelmed by asylum seekers. They're showing up on the border in Mexico and Canada. We don't know who they are. They are giving us names. They've lost their passports. They want to come into the country.

And as I understand from Homeland Security, a lot of these people, they believe, they suspect or could have al Qaeda affiliations and they're looking for documentation. You can't go to the FBI and say, we've got 100,000 people coming across the borders.

We don't know who they are, but please follow them and find out who is dangerous and who isn't. The system is broken. We've got to come to that reality.

FAIRMAN: That's right. And other issues that we've dealt with for the last 15 years that the public has an issue with. Look at the students, anyone that comes into the U.S. on an F1 visa and this goes back to the World Trade Center attacks in 2001, most of those individuals are here in the U.S. on an F1 visa.

There are laws where even law enforcement cannot go into campuses and follow these students. If a parent can't check on a student, check their grades or classes or know if they're coming or going, that's a problem. The FBI can't either nor law enforcement.

So, you know, the system has to get better, but at the same time, you know, citizens have rights. How can you keep a nation and country secure, but at the same time afford the rights and freedoms that make this the best and greatest nation to live in and to reside?

CUOMO: It's not an easy balance. Not an easy balance. Ty Fairman, Bob Baer, thank you very much for the discussion. Obviously, we've got to figure this out. It's troubling to people because the more we learn about him being in Russia and coming back and posting a video about a radicalizer who was there at the same time, it's frustrating, but obviously the limitations to every system.

Thanks for the discussion, fellows. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we have brand new information just in about a phone conversation between the suspect's father and their uncle that may be a window into why this happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage of the terror attack in Boston. Investigators are digging into a motive behind the bombings at this hour. Just a short time ago, we got word of a phone conversation the suspect's father had with his brother three days ago.

Athena Jones has more details on what that conversation was about and what it may mean to investigators. Athena, thanks for being here.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris. Well, I spoke with Ruslan Tsarni. This is an uncle of the suspects. You may remember him as the uncle that we heard from first on Friday when he came outside of his house and spoke to the reporters gathered there. He gave a long, emotional, sometimes angry remarks about having heard -- learned of this bombing and learned that his brother's children were involved. Now, at the time, he told us, he told the reporters gathered there, that he hadn't spoken to his brother, Anzor Tsarnaev, the father of Tamerlan and Dzhokhar.

He hadn't spoken to him in three months. Well, I went back to the house this morning. He lives just outside of Washington, D.C. in a Maryland suburb, and Ruslan Tsarni told me that just three days ago he heard from his brother.

It was a very brief conversation. He seemed frustrated and a bit agitated in recalling it to me. He said that his brother had been asking about a lawyer. It was a brief conversation so we don't know what came out of it in the end, but Mr. Tsarni told me that he was frustrated hearing this from his brother.

He expected his brother to already be on a plane traveling to the U.S. and not on the phone with him. So we know now that he has now spoken to his brother. This is a man he had kind words for on Friday and Saturday.

And speaking to journalists saying that Anzor Tsarnaev, the father of these two suspects have spent all the time he was in the U.S. working very hard, long hours fixing cars trying to provide for this family.

And he also made the point that he does not believe that Anzor Tsarnaev, his brother really had a lot of influence over these two children. So now we know he has spoken to his brother and his brother was interested in hearing about a lawyer -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, thank you for that, Athena, appreciate it. When we come back, CNN's Ashleigh Banfield has new information on the suspect's condition in the hospital. We'll be back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: I'm Chris Cuomo live here in Boston with brand new details on the suspect's condition in the hospital. Ashleigh Banfield is live outside Beth Israel in Boston. Ashleigh, what are you hearing?

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Chris, I've spoken with three people who work here at Beth Israel and I've been able to find out some information about this situation that this suspect, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, is in right now.

The way they have organized this very massive complex is they have shut down an entire ICU on an upper floor. I'm not going to name which floor it is. I'm not going to name it out of security concerns. That they have shut down an entire ICU to house this person.

The security presence is significant to say the very least. There is at least about half dozen federal marshals on location as well as some of the security forces from Beth Israel themselves. I can also tell you this. That one of the people who works here who has had a direct view and has been able to experience in the same room what this suspect is like says he doesn't look good. He cannot talk.

He said that based on some of the conversations that he's hearing in these very, very secure areas that it is -- he believes he may be writing, but he wasn't able to confirm he's seen him writing anything down.

I asked him about those interviews too. I said are those interviews continuing now that within the last 48 hours Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has actually retained counsel. Because he did confirm to me this source that there have been a number of people in and out of his room doing interviews, but he's not sure if those are continuing now. But he did say this we cannot wait until he's gone.

CUOMO: All right, Ashleigh, thank you very much for the latest on that and I'm going to thank all of you for joining me this afternoon. After the break, Brooke Baldwin is here with continuing coverage live from Boston.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)