Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Discussing the Ricin Suspect's Treatment and Recourse; Examining How Older Bombing Suspect Avoided Investigation for Previous Activities; Some of the Injured Expect to Return for Next Year's Boston Marathon

Aired April 24, 2013 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, ANCHOR, "CNN NEWSROOM": But my other question, I suppose, would be here, you know, as we thought, and perhaps these Department of Homeland Security agents thought, that there was this guy, how often is it that, folks at this high a level get the wrong guy?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Not that often. Not that often.

You heard what he said. There was someone from the FBI, an officer from the U.S. Capitol police where this all originally started right there in the Senate mail room.

So they were all in Corinth, Mississippi, interviewing this guy, you know, but I want to know, Brooke, and this hasn't come out yet, what exactly, what information, led them to Mr. Curtis?

I know there was something that said, "This is -- and this is approved by K.C." That's his middle name and last name, initials, but was it someone who stole his identity? That's the question.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin. to you, here he is. He talks about being locked up for seven days, doesn't know if he's going to see his kids ever again.

Does he have grounds to sue here?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): You know, I think for the most part when listening to what he had to say and to Mike's point, it seems like things were done the appropriate way, if they have probable cause and they followed the proper procedure and interrogated him.

This is a matter of national security. And so I suspect that they were doing their jobs appropriately.

So does he have, you know, recourse against the FBI and Homeland Security and that sort of thing? I don't think so.

What he could have, perhaps, is recourse against someone if it is determined that someone framed him, if it is determined that this was some sort of scheme, that he was the scapegoat. I think there's no question that is something his attorney would look at. The problem there is, if that person is ever found, does that person have any money? Or is that person sort of judgment proof? You can't get blood from a stone.

And so I don't know that at the end of the day he'll have any recovery. But I guess the government -- I don't think so.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Sunny Hostin, thank you so much. And Mike Brooks, thanks to you, as well.

Now just in here at CNN, the medical examiner's office right here in the state of Massachusetts announcing there is no cause of death yet. I repeat, no cause of death yet for this older suspect in last Monday's marathon bombings.

That body remains in custody of the medical examiner, and so far, no one has claimed the body of Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

Coming up next, did the FBI miss warning signs about this older suspect? Sources tell CNN that Russia warned the Bureau about Tamerlan and his alleged ties.

So did the countries work closely enough to prevent this kind of attack? We're asking Christiane Amanpour about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A delegation from the U.S. embassy in Moscow has arrived in the remote region because of the investigation. This is part of the investigation into the Boston marathon bombings.

Now, so far, the Russian government is cooperating with the FBI. Russia, I should mention, was also cooperating with the FBI earlier.

According to a federal law enforcement source, Russia contacted the FBI at least once to warn them about Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his alleged terrorist ties.

The FBI said they found no suspicions of terrorist ties, but some say the FBI shouldn't be so quick to dismiss warnings from Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: ... Russian intelligence before, a lot, in fact, and they don't come to the CIA or the FBI with a name and describing somebody as a radical unless they have something concrete.

There's just a long history of this. They don't simply turn in their citizens to us saying, look at them.

They had some suspicions, some reason to look at this, and you have to keep in mind that Russia is our only, you know, optic on it.

So when the Russians say something, you pay attention. There is no other alternative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Christiane Amanpour joins me now. And, Christiane, that was Bob Baer. He was with the CIA for years and years.

What do you make of what Bob Baer said, there would have been a reason for Russia to go to the FBI?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, you know, because we've been reporting since, you know, this all became clear, that both the FBI and the Russians are busy kind of blaming each other for having let this trip -- this trail perhaps go cold.

But what's clear is what Bob Baer said, and that is the Russians do know much more than the United States about whatever kind of radicalization is going on in the North Caucuses, particularly about the Chechens.

And President Putin of Russia has long said to West, woe betide you for giving asylum to Chechens; it will come back to bite you.

So you can imagine he's kind of saying, I told you so. But beyond that, I think we need to, before jumping to any conclusions, because there are no conclusions as to whether these boys were at all radicalized over there, we need to say that many of the Dagestani, the Chechen leaders have said, this has nothing to do with us. We disavow the Tsarnaev boys. We have nothing to do with them.

Most particularly, we are not at war with the United States. Yes, we have our grievances and our attacks against Russia, but we're not at war with the United States.

And having said that, there is increased anti-Russian radicalization in the North Caucuses with a strong Islamic flavor to it. There are Islamist radical jihadi extremist groups operating there, but mostly against Russia, not the United States in terms of the U.S. homeland.

BALDWIN: So, Christiane, you just talked to a Chechen leader. What did he or she tell you?

AMANPOUR: Well, it was the leader of the exiled Chechen population and government in London, and I interviewed him yesterday. His name is Akhmed Zakayev, and he's fairly well known to the U.S. administration.

And he basically said that, you know, our great regret is that the suspects of this crime are ethnic Chechnyans, it's true. But, again, he insisted, as I just said, that they have nothing against the United States. It's about Russia.

But he feared, now, that the Russians would really target them going forward, even more. And he does say -- admits, too, as I reported, that there is an increasingly radicalized movement in the North Caucuses and a lot of that has to got to do with the cycles of war going on, particularly as Chechnya tried to his separatists and what was originally a national freedom independence struggle in the early '90s that then took on a more religious jihadi flavor in response to the Russians invading Chechnya and having this war.

It's a very complex, dense situation out there. But up until now, there's been no attack against the U.S. by these people. Although, there are reports of Chechens joining various al Qaeda forces in the various wars that have gone on in the Middle East.

BALDWIN: And the question is, did any of that sort of radicalization influence this perhaps elder sibling at all?

AMANPOUR: Well ...

BALDWIN: Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much.

AMANPOUR: So far the answer is ...

BALDWIN: No, go ahead. Go ahead.

AMANPOUR: ... we don't know and we don't think so.

Well, I've just said that this is really important because you really have to know what happened and where these kids were radicalized, at least the older one if it turns out he was, in fact, the ring leader.

And much of the reporting that's being done up until now suggests that it's been done here in the United States.

But of course they want to know exactly what he did and who he met with in his last trip to Russia and to Dagestan.

BALDWIN: You got it.

Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much for your perspective and the knowledge of the region.

Here in Boston, more than a dozen runners lost an arm or a leg in last Monday's marathon bombing. And dancer Adrianne Hazlet-Davis was one of them.

But guess what? She has vowed to dance again. Others are incredibly resilient, even using laughter to try to battle through some of the pain.

Coming up next, we're going to talk live to Dick Traum. He's the first amputee ever to complete a marathon and he competed last Monday. We'll talk to him about the physical, the emotional and financial impact of losing a limb.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A hairdresser injured in the Boston bombings last Monday is keeping up her spirits despite losing both legs below the knee. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I always joked around like I'm not super athletic. I like to work out and stuff.

But running's never been my thing because I get the most horrible shin splints, so, I was like, hey, I don't have shins anymore. I can do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: She is recovering alongside her daughter Sydney at Boston Medical.

So many stories here in Boston. At least 13 victims lost limbs in the explosions and they face a long recovery, learning how to use prosthetic devices, getting their homes fitted, totally changed around because of this.

Dick Traum lost his leg because of a car accident years ago and, actually, this past Boston marathon was number 47 for this guy. He's actually the first amputee to complete a marathon. The first one was back in 1976

He completed the race in a hand-cranked wheelchair. You see him rolling around and finished before the horrific explosions around the finish line here on Boylston Street, and he was leading a group of military veterans who lost their legs to IEDs.

Dick Traum joins me from New York. And, Dick, first of all, just congratulations to you for finishing your 47th marathon.

We talk so much about resilience here in Boston, and you are living and breathing proof of that.

Have you had a chance to talk to any of the folks here in hospitals here in Boston to sort of try to help them move forward without legs?

DICK TRAUM, FOUNDER, ACHILLES INTERNATIONAL: I have not yet, but I anticipate meeting a number of them, and I look forward to some of them joining us and doing the Boston marathon in 2014, probably using a hand-cranked wheelchair as I do.

BALDWIN: Dick, tell me, because we see the video of you with the hand crank and it's wonderful to see, but I can't imagine. I was talking to an Afghan veteran soldier yesterday and he told me, you know, he battled a lot of depression after losing his leg in a blast.

Describe the difficulties for me and what some of these folks are going to have to deal with.

TRAUM: Well, there's different issues. One issue is depression. The other issue is that there is a lot of pain, and it's not only losing the leg, but there are also other parts of the body that can be affected.

And you go through a process of winning one little battle and then having a second little battle and taking over and needing extra surgical procedure to make the residual limb a little bit better for an artificial leg.

And it's a long process. But it's one that is -- can be done. And all of a sudden you're out of the hospital, you're doing rehabilitation, you're walking and ideally you're running.

BALDWIN: What advice, though, also, and I know there's this One Boston Fund. We heard Mayor Menino saying they've raised some $20 million, so we'll have to see how that's dispersed to some of these folks, but these prosthetics they're not cheap. One leg is like the cost of a luxury car.

How do you tell someone how to afford that and multiple legs, as well?

TRAUM: Well, I think that's not a big issue. Most of the artificial limbs will be covered by insurance. If they're not covered by insurance, there are companies that will contribute them.

We at Achilles have had literally dozens of legs contributed for amputees who could not afford them.

The big issue is not the cost, but it's getting back and mainstreaming.

BALDWIN: Will you be back here next year, Dick?

TRAUM: I will be back there. This year we had 28 Achilles athletes competing. Most of them were amputees, and we're looking to have a similar number as well as a large group from our up and coming Boston chapter.

BALDWIN: Dick Traum, we'll look for you here in Boston next year. Thank you so much, sir, for your inspiration.

And for more on how you can help -- we appreciate it.

For more on how you can help the victims here of the attacks in Boston, we have created this place where you can go, CNN.com/impact. Again, CNN.com/impact.

And, again, as promised we talked to our correspondent Deborah Feyerick, in the midst of the makeshift memorial now that the hustle and bustle is back on Boylston street nine days after the twin explosions.

We'll check in with her and watch and reflect with those who want Boston to heal. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: it's been a big day for everyone here in Boston because the heart of the back bay Boylston street is back open. Deborah Feyerick is there. Tell me exactly where you are.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we are standing on the finish line. This is the finish line where everyone was headed.

We want to give you a little perspective in terms of how this all played out.

Right back here you can see how this building behind me is damaged. It just shows you the blast. The first one went off here.

The second one went off just a couple minutes later down in that direction. A memorial has been built. People are leaving flowers.

This is smaller than the one over at Copley Square. Over at Copley, you have a lot of people leaving sneakers, baseball hats, baseballs. This is much smaller. You really get the sense even the people that come here this is a little bit of hallowed ground because of the lives lost here.

Folks coming and putting down flowers and cards and note cards. May I ask you why you decided to put that down?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't put it down. I was looking where it was from.

FEYERICK: OK. What is your sense of things that are being left here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's great. Shows that Boston is strong and it'll stay strong.

FEYERICK: OK. Is it odd for you being here right now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is. It's very emotional and I feel for the victims and that's why I'm here.

FEYERICK: All right.

There is an interesting energy you get from the people here. This group, you actually sang today. Tell me your experience singing at the memorial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all came from St. Louis and were in St. Louis when the bombing happened.

We knew we were coming this week and just wanted to dedicate a song to the people of Boston for coming up and standing so strong and for the victims of the bombing and so, you know, it was a very emotional experience for all of us because we all, you know, I guess we all just felt for you guys.

FEYERICK: You feel united in what is going on and with the people of Boston?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. St. Louis, we want you all to know that St. Louis feels with you guys and we're here for you as the whole country.

FEYERICK: That the sense you get. Everybody is united to show the victims and the city of Boston that everyone is remembered and everyone is in this together. Brooke?

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Deborah Feyerick for us there at that explosion site and the finish line of the Boston marathon. Thank you so much.

Thanks for being with me here. Live special coverage in Copley Square in Boston.

When we come back, more from that growing memorial just across the street from me, Boylston Street back open.

Jake Tapper takes over, "The Lead" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Jake Tapper is up in just a moment, but before I let you go we have a pretty stunning piece from our correspondent Drew Griffin about how police tricked these brothers and saved lives along the way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: In a hail of bullets this Watertown police SUV became the decoy, taking fire, a bullet through the windshield, side, and back windows shot out.

And according to the chief, all part of an instant decision made by one of his sergeants, literally in the heat of a battle.

CHIEF EDWARD DEVEAU, WATERTOWN POLICE: Oh, yeah, there's a serious gun fight going on.

The second person on the scene, one of my sergeants, he pulled up and he immediately gets at least one shot right through his windshield.

So he is under fire as soon as he shows up.

GRIFFIN: As the two gunmen open fire, as bullets whiz past police officers, as bombs are flying, the sergeant decides to abandon the SUV and use it as a weapon.

DEVEAU: You don't plan or train for this. He has the -- how do you even describe it -- the courage and determination to keep fighting and he decides to put the car in gear because his car is taking the fire. They're shooting at him in that car.

GRIFFIN: And as the police SUV was just rolling down the street with nobody in it, the suspects kept firing thinking the officer was inside. He was actually escaping.

DEVEAU: And so they think he is still in the car and so they're unloading on the car while he is able to take up a position to the side and start, you know, returning fire.

GRIFFIN: The SUV eventually towed away is riddled with bullets and the sergeant who may have saved his comrades' lives is a little concerned about how bad it's beaten up. DEVEAU: At the end, he said to my captain, I hope the chief is not mad at me. The cruiser is a little bit damaged.

I said, Sarge, are you kidding me? They're going to be writing about you in the textbooks now. That was brilliant under a very difficult situation to be able to think that through and be able to do that.

GRIFFIN: Drew Griffin, CNN, Watertown, Massachusetts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)