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Nancy Grace
Arias Murder Case Goes to the Jury
Aired May 03, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK NURMI, ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not even about whether or not you like Jodi Arias.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Jodi Ann Arias killed Travis Alexander.
NURMI: Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
MARTINEZ: Is that what she means when she is talking to you about domestic violence? Kissing. See, that`s the problem. You didn`t get it the first time. Kissing is domestic violence!
NURMI: Do you hang out and let the intended victim of this murder take pictures of you at what`s going to soon be a crime scene? You put the gun to his head and you do it!
MARTINEZ: She chases him down. That`s what she did.
NURMI: You put the knife to his throat and you do it. If that`s what you`re there to do, isn`t that what you do?
MARTINEZ: He collapses then. She catches up to him.
NURMI: No better time than when he`s asleep. She doesn`t do that.
MARTINEZ: ... and goes for the throat. He`s dead at the time he was shot.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: ... because I`m innocent. And you can mark my words on that one, no jury will convict me.
NURMI: You do not have to succumb to the pressure of a fellow juror who may not agree with you. You can have the courage of your conviction to deliver your own verdict.
MARTINEZ: The state is asking that you return a verdict of guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Jodi Arias slashes and shoots her lover, Travis Alexander, to death, leaving him dead in a wet shower stall, his neck sliced ear to ear. Bombshell tonight. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. Everybody, we are live camped out here at the Phoenix courthouse.
In the last hours, the Jodi Arias murder one trial goes to the jury. I have just come out of the courthouse, and let me tell you what I observed in the courtroom in the last hours. I made notes for you.
I noticed a completely different Martinez as he gave his final closing argument to the jury, the last words this jury will hear from him. He was much more subdued. He was almost quiet or soft-spoken as he went through the law with the jury. They were all transfixed. I watched the jurors. I looked at every one of them. I made notes on who was listening and how they were behaving. He put the double whammy on them.
What I mean by that is he would put what he was talking about up on a slide high above. A projector came down out of the ceiling, and put it up on a big screen, and he was saying it at the same time and explaining it, walking them through it, why this is a murder one trial, why this is not a murder two case, why it is not a voluntary manslaughter verdict, why it should not be a self-defense.
He walked through it very calmly, very calmly. The whole time, Arias was sitting there like they`re not talking about her, like she`s at some kind of a tea party.
I want you to hear what I heard. I want you to feel what I felt in that courtroom, what those jurors heard. Take a listen to Juan Martinez at possibly his finest hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: Not once in his lifetime, in that lifetime that was cut short -- not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her, not once. There is no evidence that he ever laid a hand on her, ever. So a reasonable person where (ph) this individual had never, ever touched her because you have to believe her and believe those journals that have to be interpreted through the secret, through the law of attraction -- you would have to believe her in order to believe that physical force was even necessary at all. There`s no indication at all that he ever even touched her.
Premeditated murder requires that the defendant -- and we can personalize it, Jodi Ann Arias -- caused (ph) or killed Travis Alexander. Yes, she put that knife in really good in his chest. She slit his throat, and she shot him in the face. Yes, she did do that.
And did Jodi Ann Arias intend or know that she would kill Travis Victor Alexander? Absolutely. That`s why she went for the throat. That`s why she just gutted him. And that`s why she stuck it in his chest. And that`s why she shot him in the face.
There was this argument that, well, if she`s dragging him back, she would have to aim. No, she wouldn`t. He was shot in the right temple, as opposed to them telling you it was the left temple. And if she`s dragging him this way down the hallway, his right temple would be the one that would be most open to her, and she just took the gun and shot him. He was already dead at the time.
And did Jodi Ann Arias act with premeditation? She did. Premeditation means that Jodi Ann Arias intended to kill Travis Victor Alexander. She sure did.
Where the stabbing is going on is exhibit 161, which is at 5:31:14. So in those 44 seconds between that photograph and this photograph, is there time to go into the bedroom to get a knife? Is there time to go into the bedroom to get a purse that might have a knife and a gun? And that`s what happened in this case. Oh, wait a minute. Can you just wait a minute? I need to go get my purse. I need to go do that. And then this is the when you have the attack.
There were many, many possible scenarios that they talked to you about, and one of them involved the sink, when there was this blood all over it and there was smudges all over it. And one of the things that they told you -- well, if it was her that was doing it and if she was able to puncture her stomach -- his stomach, how is it then that as he`s standing over this sink -- how is it then that if that is what`s happening, how come they didn`t go in deeply?
Well, one of them, the reason, is that remember there was blood all over the place, and there was blood all over the knife? And she`s already admitted that she cut herself during the attack with the knife. One of the reasons that it could be that it wasn`t deep is that that`s when she cut herself, and that`s when she`s going after him with her left hand. And blood has this consistency to it. She slipped on the handle, went to the blade, and then she cut herself.
And if she cut herself and still wants to continue attacking him, it would mean that every time that she would stab him, it would probably hurt her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is another thing I noticed during the closing arguments. Now, as the defense was trying their best to at least just get a mistrial, just get one juror, just one juror to hold out and refuse to reach a verdict or refuse to agree with the others, he went back through some of the facts.
But you know what? When you are talking to a jury, you better be darn sure you`ve got your facts straight. Listen to the defense attorney on the subject of the gas cans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: She doesn`t throw it away, and she said she returned the item. Did she ever say she returned it to the exact Walmart? You can go back to your memory. She was in Pasadena. She was in different places. There`s plenty of places where this happened. But the state says, Oh, look, we checked all the registers at this Salinas, at this Walmart. Did they check the others? Do they know? Who knows?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Uh-uh. No, no, no, no! Did you see Arias sitting there going, Uh-huh, uh-huh, I took it back to a different Walmart, that`s right, that`s what happened, Nurmi.
Listen to Arias on cross-exam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I returned the gas can.
MARTINEZ: Do you have the receipt that you took it back?
ARIAS: I didn`t get a receipt.
MARTINEZ: So Walmart did not give you any documentation whatsoever when you took that gas can back?
ARIAS: I don`t think so.
MARTINEZ: You believe that when you took that gas can back, Walmart did not give you any written document evidencing that or showing that?
ARIAS: I don`t recall having to fill anything out or any documents regarding that, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And she goes on to say she took it back to the same Walmart. All right, listen to Martinez in closing argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: One of the questions that was asked of the defendant, Did you return it to that same Walmart in Salinas? And her answer was yes. Immediately after that, the prosecutor asked her, Would it surprise you if I told you that they had no record of that gas ever being returned to that Walmart?
And her answer was, Yes, it would surprise me because they gave me a refund in cash. So she knew or she told you specifically that it was that same Walmart that -- where she purchased the gas can that she actually returned it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Monica Lindstrom at the courthouse with us today, Danny Cevallos, defense attorney joining me out of New York.
Out to you, Cevallos. Come on, the defense lawyer gets up in front of this jury and says, Hey, maybe she returned it to a different Walmart. And Arias is standing there going, Uh-huh, uh-huh, maybe I did.
But busted! That`s not what she told Martinez on cross-examination. I mean, when you go in and you give a closing statement and you`re referring to the facts, you darn well better make sure you have done your homework.
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: True, Nancy. I have to admit you have me there. But in a case like this, 50 days-plus of trial, you have to imagine sometimes facts get lost. I don`t think Nurmi did that on purpose.
GRACE: No, no! No, no!
CEVALLOS: I don`t think that`s...
GRACE: I`m sorry, I don`t think I heard you correctly.
CEVALLOS: ... but it is damaging...
GRACE: I had New York talking in my ear. What did you say? In a case like this, what?
CEVALLOS: In a case like this, there`s so many facts generated, it is possible that Nurmi may have misremembered.
GRACE: Really?
CEVALLOS: It`s not intentional. But it is...
GRACE: Misremembered.
CEVALLOS: It can be devastating if it`s exploited by the prosecution. However, in this case, Nurmi -- this is a collateral issue, the gas cans and the receipts.
The real issues are him generating that reasonable doubt. And this is not a he said/he said situation. This is the prosecution`s show. They have the burden. They must prove each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt. If we hyper-focus on the gas cans...
GRACE: OK, you know what?
CEVALLOS: ... whether Nurmi forgot or not, we lose the reasonable doubt.
GRACE: I don`t know, Danny, exactly where you`ve been trying cases, but one of the major cornerstones in every jury trial is credibility. The jury is the sole judge of the facts, the law, and credibility.
Monica Lindstrom, when you start arguing to a jury and you`re referring to facts, you better have your facts straight. And also, you better not have your client sitting there going, Uh-huh, when you`re telling the jury something false, whether it`s intended or not.
MONICA LINDSTROM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, you are exactly right, Nancy. It`s true that we have so many facts in this case, and mistakes can be made. But that`s a big mistake. And fortunately, Nurmi just kind of jumped right over that and kept going. And so it`s the jury who needs to decide what did they actually hear.
And in fact, they get an instruction that tells them that they are the finders of fact. They are to go back and think about what they heard because nothing the attorneys say is considered evidence.
So even though he made that mistake, hopefully, for his sake, the jury won`t hold that against him because they will remember what was said. But regardless, that fact in...
GRACE: Well, of course, they`re not going to hold it against him.
LINDSTROM: ... and of itself isn`t a huge statement.
GRACE: Really? The fact that she is a big, fat liar? Hey, you know what? I don`t give a fig about a gas can. I don`t care about where she did or did not return it to Walmart. What it says to me is she lied right to the jury.
LINDSTROM: That`s a problem.
GRACE: And now they`re asking a jury to...
LINDSTROM: That`s a problem.
GRACE: ... believe her. You`re darn right, that is the problem.
Everybody, we are in a verdict watch here at the Phoenix courthouse. After all of these months, the case against Jodi Arias finally in the hands of a jury. And let me tell you, they wouldn`t have left that room if they did not have a foreperson. We are on our way to a verdict, people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: What happened in those three minutes is ultimately what you are to decide. Is this a culmination of a plot, a plan, that Jodi Arias had. He was -- tied her to a bed and then they took pictures. Well, we have evidence of those pictures, right?
ARIAS: He had been requesting the photos for a while at this point.
NURMI: What was he requesting photos of?
ARIAS: Naked pictures.
NURMI: Why, if somebody is there to commit a murder, do you hang out and let the intended victim of this murder take pictures of you at what`s going to soon to be a crime scene? The last thing you would want if you`re there to commit a homicide, a murder, is to have pictures of yourself taken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are on a verdict watch here at HLN. I am camped outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the very latest from the Jodi Arias murder one trial. We are in deliberations. That case has now gone to the jury.
And I want to tell you what I saw in court. As soon as the jury walked out to begin deliberations, the first thing they`re instructed to do is to select a foreperson. The moment the jury walked out and they went back there into the deliberations room, the two female bailiffs in plainclothes came back out, and we knew then deliberations had started.
A completely different air descended in the courtroom. It was not a jocular air. It was not jovial or joking in any way. But it was as if all the lawyers knew they had now done everything they could. All the lawyers stayed in there and milled around. Nobody dared to leave the courtroom.
For those of you just joining us, we are in a verdict watch here at HLN. And today, once again, Jodi Arias shows her true colors and mouths the words "bullshit" in open court. Let`s see the footage. I think you just rolled it, but let me throw to it so the viewers can know what the we`re talking about. Let`s see Jodi Arias.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: Not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her. Not once. There is no...
Not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her, not once. There is no evidence...
Not once, there is no...
Not once in that...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And also, when I was sitting in the courtroom, you know, I saw my colleagues, Jean Casarez, Beth Karas, all of us there watching justice unfold in one of the great courthouses of our country, I locked eyes with Jodi Arias, and she immediately just looked away as if she hadn`t seen me. Now, this after she shot a bird at me a couple weeks ago in court.
But you know, what it reminded me of, Jean and Beth -- you guys know I`m a victim of crime. My fiance was murdered shortly before our wedding. And I remember when I came down off that witness stand, when I was a witness at trial, and I walked by the defendant`s table, he looked at me and then looked down, and his lawyer looked at me and then he looked down. They wouldn`t look me in the eye.
When I looked at Arias in that courtroom, Jean, she looked away. She couldn`t even look at me in the courtroom.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, there was so much emotion in that courtroom, just as you`re saying. When the jury started deliberating, the attorneys seemed to sigh a momentary sigh of relief. They were actually talking to each other, defense and prosecution.
But out in the hallway, the tears were flowing from the family of Travis Alexander. And I can just tell they`re on pins and needles. And Jodi Arias`s family also seemed very nervous on the same floor, but separated from the Alexander family.
GRACE: Uh-huh. You know, another thing I saw, Beth Karas -- I stepped out of the courtroom really quickly, trying to track down you and Jean, and I saw three of the male jurors getting off the elevator and going back to the jury deliberation room all on their own.
Should they have a bailiff with them just to protect the integrity of the jury? Not that the jurors would do anything wrong, but I don`t want somebody to come up to them and say, Hey, she`s guilty, or, Hey, she`s innocent, because that could throw the whole thing right down the gutter in a mistrial.
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Yes, indeed. But I suspect that when you saw them, they hadn`t been -- they weren`t deliberating yet. I think now, once they`re deliberating, they will always be together or be escorted.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: Travis Alexander says, That`s so hot. Your orgasm is like a 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm. Who says that? Let`s hope, ladies and gentlemen, that he doesn`t know what that sounds like. But he said it, and he said it twice. He doesn`t just double down, he goes for the trifecta. He says, Like corking the pot of a little girl. He said that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN, and joining me right now, in addition to Jean Casarez and Beth Karas, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, a renowned jury consultant.
Jo-Ellan, everybody will think I`m crazy about this, but I want to tell you what I observed with the jury, OK? I made special notes because I knew you would be joining us tonight. I think I could identify either eight or nine jurors that seemed to be siding with the state. And you know all of this is extremely subjective. You can`t really tell. But after reading those jury questions, I may be right on this one.
There were four people on the front row sitting together, four people on the right front row sitting together. And they were actually -- their body language -- they were leaning into each other. Those four are clearly a block.
Then there were a couple of empty chairs, and then there were two others. One of them was a young white male wearing a hoodie, and he was the one doing all his back and neck exercises, like, you know, he was just absolutely in pain.
On the back, there were two men, I would say in their 60s, sitting together, leaning in together. They didn`t look like they were taking -- believing anything that Arias`s defense was saying. And there was a female at the end that seemed to be in agreement with them. Do you believe that there is a way to read the jury?
JO-ELLAN DIMITRIUS, JURY CONSULTANT: You know, reading a jury is like reading tea leaves. We can speculate until the cows come home, but we`ve seen so many cases in which we`ve all been wrong. And I think the real bottom line to all of this is just kind of reviewing the evidence that`s been presented, reviewing what the responsibility that the prosecution has...
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
DIMITRIUS: ... and going -- and really going from there.
GRACE: I`m going to call you, Jo-Ellan. I`m calling you on that because you make your living being a jury consultant. And you do that because you think certain jurors are better on your jury than other jurors, isn`t that true?
DIMITRIUS: Well, certainly, that is true, but that`s not based necessarily on solely their body language, Nancy. It`s based on their life experiences, how -- you know, the questions that they`re asked in voir dire, as you know. So that that is a larger -- much larger portion than what body language is.
Once you have your jury selected, you hope you have the best possible jury. But the bottom line is somebody could be leaning forward and looking like they`re totally absorbed in the attorney`s argument, only to learn that, in fact, they`re not. They`re just -- you know, they just have a bad back and they`re trying to, you know, escape some of that pain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: It may be that Jodi Arias didn`t know when to stop.
MARTINEZ: When the facts are on your side, you argue the facts. But when nothing is on your side, you just argue.
NURMI: Somebody`s lying here. And in this case, it isn`t Jodi Arias. Lies and dirty little secrets -- she knew his dirty little secret, and she was his dirty little secret, wasn`t she, that (ph) he did threaten her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What dirty little secret is that, that he liked sex? I don`t think that`s that big of a secret.
Everybody, we are in a verdict watch here at HLN. We`re camped outside the Phoenix courthouse. The jury has the case.
I just came out of the courthouse, and I got to tell you, everybody was on pins and needles. You could have heard, you know, a pin drop in that courtroom listening to Martinez do that final closing argument. Unusually, he was much more low-key, almost soft-spoken, as he went over the law with the jury.
Let me show you one of my favorite parts of his closing argument. Take a listen. This is about Jodi Arias could not let Travis Alexander go, even if it cost Alexander his life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: She couldn`t let him go. Even from Yreka, she couldn`t let him go. There`s never an indication that he said that -- or he requested her to come there. Those are her words. And she kept saying them over and over like mantra.
And so on that date when she finally got there, she came ready to go. And by ready to go, I mean she brought over the weapons. And she spent some time with him. And then when he was in the shower, he was no match for her, and she took care of business. And you know how she took care of business.
And because she took care of business and because she stabbed him in the heart and because she slashed his throat and because she shot him in the face and because she premeditated it, you now have a duty. And this duty requires you to take into account the jury instructions. And these jury instructions are not something that you can disregard. They`re mandatory -- apply them to the facts. And the facts again involve an individual who has lied consistently throughout. And based on that, you are to reach a decision as to whether or not the defendant committed first degree murder.
One of the things that was advanced to you as part of their argument, because it is just argument, was that she did purchase this five-gallon can of gasoline, but that she returned it. If you remember, on cross- examination, one of the questions that was asked of the defendant, Did you return it to that same Walmart in Salinas? And her answer was yes.
Immediately after that, the prosecutor asked her, Would it surprise you if I told you that they had no record of that gas ever being returned to that Walmart? And her answer was, Yes, it would surprise me because they gave me a refund in cash.
So she knew or she told you specifically that it was that same Walmart that -- where she purchased the gas can that she actually returned it. Additionally, if you take a look at the Walmart receipt, exhibit number 237.008, there`s no markings on it. There`s no indications whatsoever that it was ever touched by a Walmart employee.
There`s no indication that, for whatever reason -- maybe the heavens created the one and only exception for her that the employee would not put a notation on there that there had been a refund.
That absolutely would not have happened. But they want you to believe that because the only way that her story makes sense, the only way that there is no premeditation in this case, the only way that they can get you to believe that perhaps...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everybody, as you know, we are in a verdict watch here at HLN. We`re all camped outside the courthouse. The jury has the case in Jodi Arias`s murder one trial.
With me right now, special guest, former roommate of Travis Alexander, spoke with Arias, now on trial for Travis`s murder, the day Travis`s body was found. With me is Brent Hyatt. Brent, thank you for being with us.
BRENT HYATT, FORMER ROOMMATE OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thank you. A pleasure.
GRACE: Brent, I`ve got so many things to ask you about, but the first thing I want to talk to you about is the day that Travis`s dead body was found. You spoke with Jodi Arias. What happened?
HYATT: Well, when I got to Travis`s house, it was after one of our friends had called me and was wondering if I had heard from him, if I had spoken to him, and he ended up calling up to check on him. And then he was found, and so we made our way there as fast as possible.
The police were already there. But when I got there, I ended up kind of inadvertently becoming the point of contact for a lot of people, friends of ours that were, you know, scattered throughout California, Utah, also other places of Arizona, where, basically, I was the confirmer of the rumors, and you know, being there on site.
So Jodi was one of the people that called in asking about the rumors, wanting to know, Is this true? Is everything OK? You know, Is he all right?
And to be honest, that was my first, you know, hearing her words. It was actually on a voicemail because the detective had already told me at that point that she was a suspect and kind of advised me that maybe I should let it go to voicemail at first. He listened to it.
But then she called me again a few more times, and he just kind of nodded, like, You know what? You do what you got to do. And at the time, I wasn`t -- you know, nobody knew if she was guilty, and I didn`t want to, you know, judge her if she turned out to be innocent...
GRACE: What did she say?
HYATT: I mean, nobody wants that -- well, specifically, she just wanted to know was Travis OK? Was everything OK? It wasn`t -- she didn`t...
GRACE: She wanted...
HYATT: ... ask me anything weird or cryptic...
GRACE: ... to know if Travis was OK. This after she slashed his -- sliced his neck from ear to ear. She wanted to know if he was OK. All right. Go ahead.
HYATT: Yes. That`s pretty much it. You know, at the time, we didn`t know. You know, I didn`t know, and so I didn`t want to make a judgment. You know, nobody had made...
GRACE: I understand that you did not...
HYATT: ... an arrest, so...
GRACE: ... want to make a judgment. I get it. You have told us that Arias has a way of looking at you that can be extremely unsettling. What do you mean by that?
HYATT: You know, she was -- when I first met her, she was just kind of shy and introverted, but at the same time, you know, her eyes kind of, like, wandered a little bit. She had a way of basically making you want to focus your attention somewhere else, I guess you could say.
And I know that, you know, once you got to know her, she could be very engaging, but I never really got to know this side of her. When I was there, she was always just very introverted. You know, she had this little half-smile, and it just -- for me, it was kind of unsettling.
I just saw this as a relationship of Travis that was just going nowhere. You know, the only person who didn`t know it yet was Jodi. I`m pretty sure Travis even knew that it wasn`t a relationship with a future.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: If Jodi Arias were accused of the crime of lying, I could not stand before you in good conscience and say she`s not guilty of that crime.
ARIAS: Lying isn`t typically something I do.
NURMI: Nowhere in your jury instructions are you asked to convict Jodi Arias of lying.
ARIAS: I absolutely did not kill Travis Alexander.
NURMI: Is Jodi Arias guilty of the crime of lying or not? Well, of course she is.
ARIAS: I had nothing to do with his murder.
I didn`t kill Travis. I just didn`t. I did not take his life.
NURMI: That`s not the crime she`s being charged with. It`s premeditated murder. That`s the ultimate crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. We`re all camped outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the latest. The jury has the case of Jodi Arias, state v. Jodi Arias. The defense took an unusual tack in part of their closing argument. Take a listen to this tiny tidbit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NURMI: I think it`s important to talk about what this case is not about. It`s not about Snow White. It`s not even about any of the seven dwarfs. It`s not about bad haircuts, and it`s not about the sexual orientation of any of the witnesses. It`s not even about whether or not you like Jodi Arias. Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias." Well, I can top him because 10 days out of 10, I don`t like Jodi Arias because I believe that she is a murderer.
But let me go out to Jean and Beth. First to you, Jean Casarez. How did the jury respond when her own lead defense counsel says, Nine out of ten days, I don`t like my client?
CASAREZ: I know I was shocked, but I`ve heard it before in a closing argument because they`re trying to show that you`ve got to look at the evidence. I didn`t see a reaction out of the jury, but there was an objection. It was sustained. The jury was asked to disregard.
GRACE: What about it, Beth?
KARAS: Right. That`s exactly what I observed also, what Jean just said. And I, too, have heard that because, you know, lawyers will make the argument, I`m sure you heard it, Look, you don`t have to like my client. I don`t like my client. But you just have to decide this case on the evidence. Put fear aside, put sympathy aside, and just look dispassionately at the evidence and decide the issues.
GRACE: Well, I get what you`re saying. Let me go out to Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist. Ramani, this is at a moment, a crucial moment in the trial, where the defense attorney is trying to convince this jury that they, the defense attorney, believe wholeheartedly in their case, in their client, and that they are fighting for justice. Or at least that`s what I thought I was doing all those years in the courtroom, that I was doing the right thing, that I believed in my case and I wanted the jury to believe it just as much as I believed it.
And when you feel that somebody`s wrongly charged with murder, why would you say, I don`t like them?
RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: There`s not much to like about Jodi Arias. There really isn`t. She`s a liar. Her smirks and everything in the courtroom really have probably really taken a toll on the jury.
At the end of the day, he`s trying to create one last connection with the jury, saying, Hey, I know she`s a jerk, you`ve got -- exactly what the others have said, what Jean and Beth said. He`s trying to say, Focus on the law. Again, he`s trying to create empathy for a woman who draws absolutely no empathy from anyone.
So I mean, it`s a Hail Mary pass. That`s all he`s doing at this point. And it`s probably not going to work.
GRACE: That`s a good one.
DURVASULA: She`s just lied too much.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Angela, North Carolina. Hi, dear. + What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to say thank you for taking my call. I wanted to say to you, if you could have a chance to interact with Jodi and have a conversation with her, what would you say to her? Because I know that you don`t particularly like...
GRACE: Well, actually, Angela, it`s not that I don`t like her personally. I don`t like what she did. It brings back horrible memories for me of when my fiance was murdered. There`s a reason it`s number one on the 10 Commandments, Thou shalt not kill.
There`s a reason because when I look at Travis Alexander`s family sitting in court, tears streaming down their eyes, and I, like, look over at her and she`s sitting there like she`s at a church social, at a tea party, you know, it just -- it just puts my teeth on edge because this is wrong. This is an injustice, and I want a verdict that speaks the truth, Angela.
And if I did have a conversation with her, what would I get? Another sack of lies? They`ve served it up and given it to the jury like it`s the pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving. It is a sack of lies, yet they want this jury to believe them. And I for one don`t believe it, I don`t buy it, and I hope the jury can see the truth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: Not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her. Not once. There is no...
Not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her. Not once. There is no evidence...
Not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her. Not once. There is no...
Not once in that lifetime did he ever lay a hand on her, not once. There is no evidence...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And there you see Jodi Arias say "bullshit" in open court -- her word, not mine. Don`t get mad at me! She`s the one that said it in court. And I`m very surprised. I guess Martinez or anybody on his team didn`t see it happening because it was behind his back.
And that leads me to another thing I noticed, Jean Casarez. Martinez sits there all by himself. Once in a while, he`ll have one other guy with him. It looks like there`s a whole fleet of defense attorneys. What are they? Who are all those people?
CASAREZ: Well, it`s Kirk Nurmi, who delivered the closing argument today. And then...
GRACE: I know that.
CASAREZ: ... also the female attorney that is next to him, and then...
GRACE: Wilmott.
CASAREZ: ... their mitigation specialist. This is a death penalty case. Wilmott -- and then there -- there are mitigation specialists, which is also right there with them...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... behind them, there`s all these people, like handing them - - not the whole trial.
CASAREZ: ... things and doing their bidding. I don`t know who those people are.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... I was very surprised -- I tell you what. There should have been right then an objection to Jodi Arias mouthing "bullshit" in plain court because that is not OK. Whether she is convicted or acquitted, this is a court of law! This is a symbol of justice in our country, and it is not OK for her to do that.
What did that mean to you, out to you, Danny Cevallos, defense attorney, if your client had been cursing at the defense table?
CEVALLOS: Nancy, first of all, I`m not entirely sure that she said that word. I mean, I don`t know that I can raid lips that well.
GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you, you`re blind.
(CROSSTALK)
CEVALLOS: I know that you said it...
GRACE: Let`s go to the other lawyer.
I`m pretty sure that you`ve said it several times, but I don`t know that she`s said it in court. And after all, this is all a pageant. This woman is on trial for her life.
GRACE: OK, so you`re not going to answer?
CEVALLOS: She has to emote. She has to demonstrate something during that...
GRACE: OK. Fine.
CEVALLOS: ... during that closing.
GRACE: That`s fine, Danny. I appreciate that. What about it, Monica Lindstrom? What do you do with a client that curses at the counsel table?
LINDSTROM: Well, first of all, I would let them know right away that that kind of behavior is unacceptable. But Nancy, he`s right. She is on trial for her life. If she wants to do that, she can do that. She`s only going to hurt herself by doing that. But you said it yourself...
GRACE: Oh, OK.
LINDSTROM: You were in that courtroom today.
GRACE: More lack of self-control.
LINDSTROM: Emotions are strung (ph) and they`re all over the place. Her emotions are up really high, too, because she knows that at any moment, that jury can come back with a verdict against her. So her emotions are just as high as everybody else`s in that courtroom.
GRACE: Bottom line, no impulse control, same thing the prosecutor`s been saying for four months.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, pilot in command Brad Hasler, 34, Trenton, Michigan, lost his life in a plane crash flying supplies in and out of Afghanistan for our military. Parents, Dianne (ph) and Bill (ph), stepfather Jack (ph), brother Bill, best friend, David, widow and new bride, Robin (ph), new baby daughter, Sloane (ph). Brad Hasler, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: The chaos, the blood everywhere, the shallow stab wounds, the slit to the throat, the running down the hall, all of it in some ways a sad, symbolic ending to a toxic relationship. All of it. It was a fight. But Jodi Arias might very well have lost control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are in a verdict watch here in Phoenix. And right now, I want you to see what I saw in the courtroom, Martinez at possibly his finest hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: Every part of her trip was documented, when she was stopping at the bank. She was stopping at the store. And if she wanted to, she could have thrown away the receipt. Yes, every part of her trip was documented, except the part where she came to Arizona.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What a day in the courtroom.
Everybody, a special Mother`s Day contest to win custom T-shirt and a handcuff necklace, proceeds going to missing and abused children. They really need our love and our help. Go to NancyGrace.com and win that necklace, people! Dr. Drew up next. Closing arguments are done, and the jury is gone. I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
