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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Jodi Out of the Psych Ward?; Should `The Juice` Get Loose?
Aired May 13, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news: is Jodi out of the psych ward? In this exclusive new video, you can see Jodi Arias`s mother just a little while ago leaving the Lower Buckeye Jail, where Jodi`s been in the psych ward on suicide watch.
Jodi`s mom told us she was turned away and could not see her daughter, because Jodi is being moved back to Estrella Jail. That`s where Jodi has lived for several years until she gave that controversial post-verdict TV interview saying she wanted to die, which got her put on suicide watch. So does this transfer back to the Estrella Jail mean Jodi is no longer suicidal?
Straight out to Jean Casarez, who is on the ground in Arizona. Jean, what is the latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Here`s what we just learned minutes ago. Jodi Arias is not on suicide watch anymore. The public information officer of Maricopa County just told us minutes ago she is back at the Estrella Jail. But I think the headline is, she has been taken off suicide watch.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it`s basically almost like she didn`t give that TV interview where she said, "Give me the death penalty. I want the death penalty." Or maybe they figured out, with all the psychological evaluations, that she was just being dramatic as per usual and didn`t really want to die, Jean Casarez.
CASAREZ: Or at the moment, she wanted to commit suicide and take her life and now she doesn`t. But doctors made that determination, Jodi didn`t. So she was in probably for about 72 hours of the psychiatric unit but has now returned to Estrella, not on suicide watch.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, stay right there, Jean Casarez. We`re going to be back with more on Jodi Arias in just a moment.
But first, we`ve got breaking news in the O.J. Simpson saga. The disgraced football legend appears in shackles in court. And, boy, has he changed. Not for the better.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron and Nicole were butchered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, in the above entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just robbed at gunpoint by O.J. Simpson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count one, conspiracy to commit a crime, guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Count 12, guilty.
O.J. SIMPSON, CONVICTED OF ARMED ROBBERY: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s never told his story. And he wanted to.
SIMPSON: And I realized I was stupid. I`m sorry. I didn`t mean to steal anything from anybody. And I didn`t know I was doing anything illegal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: O.J. marched into a Las Vegas hotel a few years ago with a pack of guys, and guns blazing, prepared to take his sports memorabilia back from two businessmen. He says, "Hey, I was just getting my own property back." But O.J. was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping.
And now O.J. is back before a judge, claiming his then-lawyer screwed up by telling him in advance that O.J. had every right to reclaim his property. The 65-year-old O.J. Simpson -- and, boy, he looks so different from these photos from the old days -- he`s throwing the guy in the red tie, his former attorney, Yale Galanter, under the bus claiming, "Yes, he advised me I could go get my stuff back, no problem."
Not only that, O.J. says the lawyer convinced him not to take the stand and explain his side of the story during his trial and also failed to tell him there was a plea deal on the table that would have gotten O.J. Simpson out at just two to five years.
Well, now, O.J. is serving a much longer nine to 33-year sentence. Now, a lot of people think that`s proper payback for the vicious killing of his ex-wife, Nicole, and her friend, Ron Goldman. Even though O.J. was found not guilty, many, many, many people are sure that he did it.
We lived through it all: the horrific murder, the slow-speed chase, the gripping murder trial, the shocking "not guilty" verdict, and what we thought was the final play. A guilty verdict in trial No. 2 for armed robbery and kidnapping. Now, will O.J. Manage to pull off this hail Mary? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to Tom Riccio. Tom, you are the author of "Busted," a book about O.J. Simpson. You were involved in this O.J. Simpson Las Vegas robbery. What is the disconnect?
I mean, this guy says, "Look, I went -- it`s my property. I just went there to get what`s rightfully mine, and my lawyer told me I had every right to do it." Well, next thing you know, he`s in jail for up to 33 years. What do you think he did wrong?
TOM RICCIO, AUTHOR, "BUSTED": Well, I mean, when he called me about it, he was crying that it wasn`t just memorabilia, it was personal mementos and things like that. And his agent supposedly had robbed it from him, and they were trying to sell it.
So he came up with an idea: "Why don`t we just say we have a buyer. I`ll go in there and say, `Hey` -- I`ll pose as the buyer. I`ll say, `Hey, this is my stuff, if in fact, it is my stuff. Either give it back to me or we`re calling the cops`."
And his plan actually worked for the first minute or so. The people that were in the room were apologizing and giving the stuff back to O.J. until they pulled out guns on these guys and turned into an armed robbery. And that`s really why he`s there today.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. I think the guns, that`s a big problem. It`s one thing going back and getting your property, saying, "Please." Another thing pulling guns on people.
Now, after he was found not guilty of murdering his ex-wife, Nicole, and her friend, Ron Goldman, O.J. went so far as to write a brazenly titled book, "If I Did It." He talked about the title in a 2006 interview with 1080 AM in Miami. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON (via phone): That was their title. They came into the project with that as the title. At least that was the title that was brought to me. I didn`t bring anybody a deal. I didn`t pitch anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Needless to say, this book outraged the victims` families and many others who thought he was gloating that he may have got an way with murder, literally.
Let`s debate it. Straight out to my expert panel. Did O.J. have this robbery and kidnapping conviction in the Las Vegas memorabilia confrontation coming? Did he deserve it? Starting with Jon Leiberman.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, the bottom line is that at every opportunity, O.J. Simpson has thumbed his nose at the victims, in all of these cases. This one is no exception.
Now, look, I don`t think this is payback in any way for the murder acquittal, but I`ll tell you, Jane, this is grasping at straws. In 2010, the Nevada Supreme Court rejected O.J. Simpson`s appeal. This is just going to be another rejection for O.J.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Randy Zelin for the defense.
RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all, karma has absolutely no place in a courtroom. That was then. This is now. Trials are decided on the evidence.
As far as what he`s doing today, it`s only a hail Mary when it happens to someone else. But if you believe that you got bad advice, if you believe that you were relied on your lawyer and now you`re behind bars; if you believe that you had an opportunity to resolve your case and weren`t told about it; if you believed that you would have testified and there would have been a different result, well, he`s got every right to do what he`s doing right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rolonda Watts, host of "Sundays with Rolonda".
ROLONDA WATTS, HOST, "SUNDAYS WITH ROLONDA": You know what? I have to agree with the gentleman there. He has every right to argue for his case. Especially if he feels he was wronged.
But somehow I think that O.J. has this warped sense of reality. I don`t know how you think you can go walking in with a band of guys, wielding guns and telling people "Don`t leave the room" and not find that that`s a crime somewhere.
I think that`s pretty much what the public is feeling. That O.J. has gotten away, maybe with a lot. But he seems to think he can -- but, listen, one thing he`s proven is that where there is doubt, there`s a chance. And he`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, a lot of people think he was convicted of this robbery on the anniversary of his acquittal on the infamous murder trial. He got 33 -- up to 33 years, which matches approximately the millions that he was ordered to pay the family of one of the victims. I mean, is there a message in all this?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, I think people might think there`s a message, but we can`t go into the mind of the judge and determine why she sentenced him the way that he did. He fell a certain place on the guidelines, and that`s what she gave him.
And right now, as all your other guests have said, he has every right in the world to bring this motion. And a lot of people, when they`re unhappy with the result of their case, bring what is called an ineffective assistance of counsel motion. That means that the judge can look it over, and the judge makes the decision.
In this case, he wasn`t happy with the result, and I think the judge is going to deny it. I can`t imagine that this lawyer would have put his interests above his. If there was a plea offer on the table, it would have been conveyed.
And under most circumstances, a judge will ask if there`s any -- any pleas on the table and will also ask if the defendant wishes to testify. So the testimony is going to be very interesting to see what O.J. is thinking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And he could be testifying on Wednesday, we understand.
Let`s talk a little bit about how he looks. I mean, the time behind bars has not been kind to O.J. Simpson. Rolonda, when he walked out -- I think we had video of him walking into the courtroom -- I almost fell off my chair.
I mean, say what you want about this guy. He was one of the most handsome of football legends. There`s a young picture of him. And there, look at him. He`s put on, I don`t know how much weight. He looks definitely every one of his 65 years, and he looks arthritic, Rolonda.
WATTS: Well, he looks like he`s been eating very well. And he also looks like he has a tan. I don`t know why. But he looks like he has a tan to me.
But he still has that -- he came in with that charm, smiling at his attorney, smiling at his daughter, giving -- trying to give the remnants of that legend that no longer lives in him, but he`s certainly still walking with that O.J. thing that he has.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That bravado is not doing him well.
WATTS: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not serving him well. It`s the self-destructive bravado of people who feel the rules don`t apply to them.
On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to a gentleman who testified at the hearing today, extraordinary stuff. Stay right there. And, of course, we`re going to have the very latest on Jodi Arias in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY COCHRAN, O.J. SIMPSON`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN MURDER TRIAL: O.J. Simpson in a knit cap from two blocks away is still O.J. Simpson. It`s no disguise. It`s no disguise. It makes no sense. It doesn`t fit. If it doesn`t fit, you must acquit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias` mother turned away again as she tries to visit her daughter behind bars. Is it because Jodi is being transferred yet again? This time from the psych ward? The very latest next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, in the above entitled case find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, as follows: count one, conspiracy to commit a crime, guilty. Count two, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When O.J. Simpson and his friends barged into that hotel room, the interaction could have been just a heated conversation, except for one thing, guns. The fact that O.J. and his friends were wielding guns elevated the confrontation up to an armed robbery. Listen to this audio recording of that entire incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. is claiming it`s his stuff, and he came to get his stuff back.
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m too nervous, man. I`ve got guns pointed at me. I`m too nervous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, my understanding is that O.J. Simpson did not have a gun himself. Let`s go back to Tom Riccio, author of "Busted."
And you were there. You were there during this confrontation. And let`s show the confrontation again. There it is.
Tom, tell us about what happened during the confrontation and then how O.J. calls you right after the confrontation, after he leaves the room that you`re in, and tries to convince you of something. Tell us.
RICCIO: Well, there was a criminally insane guy there. The reason why I actually had a recording in my room. I wasn`t so much afraid of O.J. as I was the stalker guy that was in the room, trying to sell the stuff.
But it turned out to be O.J. and his gang pulled out guns, turned it into an armed robbery. And after the robbery, he called me, basically saying, "Tom, there were no guns. Don`t tell them there were no guns."
And I said, O.J., "What are you talking about? A guy pointed a gun at me, inches from my face. I saw a gun."
He wanted me -- basically wanted me to tell the cops there were no guns, even though there was guns. And I think that`s what -- what did him in. The guys with the guns actually cut a deal, and they admitted they had guns.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, so you`re saying essentially he wanted you to lie. And that`s part of the problem: the rules don`t apply to O.J. Simpson in his own mind, and if he says there`s no guns, suddenly that means there`s no guns. It doesn`t work that way.
Minutes after the robbery, as you say, O.J. calls you, Thomas Riccio, and you`re the one who set up this memorabilia meeting and secretly reported the whole thing. And in the -- in the voice mail to you, Riccio, O.J. says there were no guns. Listen to him lie, because we know there were guns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON (via phone): Hey, man. It`s O.J. What are they talking about guns? Nobody had any guns. You know? All I wanted was my stuff back. They admitted it was stolen stuff from Mike Gilbert. They knew it was all stolen stuff. So I don`t get it. Everybody -- why would you steal my stuff? I thought you guys were my friends, you know? Just give me my stuff.
I don`t know what they`re talking about guns. Nobody had any guns. Like I went in trying to kill people. Trying to make up something. Call me, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to another very special guest, Brent Bryson. You testified at today`s hearing, and you`re an attorney for one of O.J. Simpson`s former co-defendants.
So, basically, O.J. is asking Thomas Riccio to lie. What is your take on why this might be a problem now that he`s trying to say, `Oh, I was just getting my stuff back. I got bad advice. Please make it all go away or give me a new trial"?
E. BRENT BRYSON, ATTORNEY FOR SIMPSON CO-DEFENDANT: Well, I mean, the battle really isn`t in accord with that -- that argument. This goes all the way back to the days where were plane jumpers for gold and silver, and we researched that issue very well because, I mean, if it had been the law, it`s something that we might have been interested in joining.
But as you recall, we alleged and, indeed, the Nevada Supreme Court found that there were antagonistic defenses, that there was spillover prejudice, between Mr. Stewart and Mr. Simpson. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, well, you`re kind of going over our heads here. I`m just asking you very specifically, O.J. Simpson, according to Thomas Riccio and a lot of other people, lied, called him and saying, "There`s no guns here" when, in fact, there were guns that were brandished during that entire incident.
Now he`s saying, "Well, my attorney, Yale Galanter," who I`ve interviewed many times -- seems like a very stand-up guy -- "oh, he told me I had every right to go in there."
Well, Yale Galanter obviously, A, may not have said that; and, B, had no idea that guns were going to be brandished. Because what attorney in their right mind would suggest to somebody, "Go in there with guns and commit an armed robbery"?
BRYSON: Yes. And I don`t have any evidence that that occurred. I know that`s what Mr. Simpson is alleging.
Basically, the facts that I had were that, with all due respect to Mr. Riccio and the other witnesses that testified, the jury convicted Mr. Simpson and Mr. Stewart on the tapes, is what they said. They really didn`t believe any of the -- the witnesses and didn`t find them credible at the actual trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A lot of people feel O.J. Simpson got away with murder, despite the fact he was acquitted of viciously killing his ex-wife, Nicole, and her friend, Ron. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COCHRAN: If it doesn`t fit, you must acquit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: After Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman`s murder, the country watches O.J. behind the wheel of a white Bronco, led cops on the infamous slow-speed chase that will go down in history.
We hung on every word of one of the biggest trials of all time, anticipating, many, a guilty verdict. Many thought the evidence was overwhelming. But then, of course, shock when the words "not guilty" rocketed through that courtroom.
And then O.J. finds himself in even more trouble with this armed robbery case several years ago when he`s convicted. And now he`s saying once again, "It wasn`t me," this time blaming his former attorney.
So, we are, on the other side, going to debate whether -- with our expert panel, should he be allowed to get a new trial in this case? All right, should the Juice get loose? That`s on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON: I didn`t want to hurt any of these guys. I know these guys. These guys have eaten in my home. I`ve done book reports with their kids.
I just wanted my personal things. And I realize now I was stupid, and I am sorry. I didn`t mean to steal anything from anybody. And I didn`t know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exclusive video of Jodi Arias` mom being turned away again, trying to visit her daughter. Will Jodi`s mom speak in court to try and save her daughter`s life? The latest next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON (via phone): Hey, man. It`s O.J. What are they talking about a gun? Ain`t nobody had any gun. You know? I wanted my stuff back. It was stolen stuff by Mike Gilbert. They know it all was stolen stuff. So I don`t get it. Anybody -- I don`t totally get, why would you steal my stuff? I thought you guys were my friends, you know? I don`t want any of your stuff. Just give me my stuff.
I don`t know what they`re talking about a gun. Ain`t nobody had any guns. Where does that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) come from? Like I went in trying to kill people. They`re trying to make up something. Call me, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it with my expert panel. Should the Juice get loose? All right, starting with, for the prosecution, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor. Let`s debate it: Should the Juice get loose?
HONOWITZ: Well, of course we don`t want the conviction to be -- we don`t want him to get a new trial, because I don`t feel -- and I don`t know all the evidence, so I have to sit here and say this -- but I can`t imagine that Yale Galanter would not have conveyed a plea offer of two years to a client sitting there. And I can`t believe that he would allow him to go and commit an armed robbery like you said. No lawyer is going to tell him to commit a crime.
And I think O.J. himself even said, "He said I could go over there, but I can`t use force." So right then and there, he`s absolving him of any advice that he gave him.
As far as him saying that "I wanted to testify," like I told you, the judge ultimately will ask the defendant, "Did you talk to your client?" He will ask him, "Did you talk to your lawyer? Do you want to testify? Is it your decision?" And it`s at that time where he says, "I want to testify."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Randy Zelin.
HONOWITZ: So I think the judge is going to read it and throw it out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Randy Zelin for the defense.
ZELIN: Look, we are entitled as citizens -- and O.J. Simpson is a citizen -- to rely on the trial process. And when something happens to call that into question, a defendant should have his right to come in and say, "Look, this is what happened."
I`ve always been mystified how someone can be accused of robbery when the element of robbery is a theft. You can`t steal your own stuff. We`ve heard time and time again, "I thought it was mine." And why would he need an army of goons with guns? I think that they were big enough that they didn`t need any guns. That calls into question his intent and his state of mind.
And therefore, we should all have confidence. He should have his day in court. And the judge should do exactly what this judge is doing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Rolonda, here`s the problem. If he was just going back and getting his stuff, it always gets a little crazy with O.J. So then suddenly, the guns get brandished. But then he tells somebody, "No, say there were no guns, please."
OK, so what happens is that half measures avail us nothing. You can`t lie a little bit and then expect not to get bitten by the big problem. You can`t finesse it and sort of make a crime and sort of not and then say, "Well, forget about this part. Just forget about the guns part. I was just getting my property back."
WATTS: Listen, I -- I don`t blame him. I`d be saying, "I`m sorry," too. I`m sure he is very sorry. But that does not take away the fact that there was nothing but intimidation walking toward that hotel room. They had every -- every intention, based upon the evidence, based upon what we`re seeing, of going in there in an intimidating way. If he didn`t know the two guns taken out, he should have known his friends better.
I agree with the gentleman who said it looked as if he rolled up in there like a cowboy with a bunch of goons. And you show me your friends, I`ll show you your future. And his future is not looking very bright.
I do think it was interesting that the daughter was on the stand today, trying to attest to the alcohol intake. Maybe they`re going to use that as an excuse. I don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
WATTS: But right now with all the lies...
LEIBERMAN: But think about this, Jane...
WATTS: ... the goons...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, go ahead.
LEIBERMAN: Think about this, Jane. It`s going to come down to credibility. You see, O.J. Simpson has only testified once in all of these cases. That was during the wrongful death lawsuit, and clearly, they didn`t believe him there. He`s going to have to testify here, and he really doesn`t have any credibility. And so thereby, I don`t believe that the Juice is going to be set free.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, on the other side, we`re going to hear what`s going to happen next. This is going to be a crazy week when it comes to trials. And when is O.J. Simpson taking the stand? We`ve got the latest from Jim Moret on the other side. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Jodi Arias claims her lawyers told her she has no mitigating factors to argue in the death penalty phase of her trial. Is Jodi lying again? Next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Count one, first degree murder, guilty.
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Her mother came here, her mother was turned away because Jodi was under watch.
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER ONE: Listen, if I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.
I sat there and I couldn`t bring myself to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just said, I want to die, boom, that person goes in a locked facility.
ARIAS: I just want it to be done. Want it to be done.
If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi under watch tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news, Jodi is out of the psych ward, off suicide watch. Exclusive new video, you see it right there, Jodi Arias` own mother turned away, she said her murderous daughter was sent back to Estrella jail where she spent several years before being transferred to the psych ward in another jail.
So now she`s back at her original jail. Does this mean that Jodi is ready to face the jury so they can decide if she should live or die? 12 men and women convicted Jodi of first degree murder for viciously stabbing her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, 29 times, slitting his throat ear to ear and shooting him in the face. Now Jodi says there are no, zero, mitigating factors that will keep her off death row. Listen to what she told KSAZ in her controversial post verdict TV interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY HAYDEN, KSAZ CORRESPONDENT: Do you know what your mitigating factors are going to be and how you`re going to play that?
ARIAS: Well, I`ve been told that I don`t have any mitigating factors.
HAYDEN: By who?
ARIAS: My attorney.
HAYDEN: Kurt Nurmi said to you there are no mitigating factors for you in terms of arguing against the death penalty?
ARIAS: Nothing that is what you typically see in a case like this, such as a childhood where there was drugs, alcoholism, molestation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What attorney would really tell their client you have no mitigators? Ok. Should the jury sentence Jodi to death? Give me a holler -- 1-877-JVM-SAYS; 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to HLN legal correspondent Jean Casarez, you are on the ground in Arizona. What is the latest about Jodi`s transfer back to the jail and everything else that is happening right now?
CASAREZ: We`ve learned a little bit more that it was 1:00 local time, 4:00 p.m. Eastern time, about three and a half hours ago, that Jodi was transferred back to the Estrella jail, so she`s back at her original jail. But more than that, the public information officer has confirmed she`s no longer on that suicide watch. So doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists determined for her to be taken off suicide watch, which is a very important determination as we`re two days away from the beginning of the sentencing phase.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. So obviously they talked to her, even though she said on that TV interview, "Hey, I don`t want to live. Kill me. I want the death penalty." After talking to doctors, psychiatrists, evaluating her while she`s in there behind a glass pane wearing only some kind of like hospital gown, because they can`t let her have any clothes because she might hurt herself with them, they decide after talking to her, never mind.
Does that mean she doesn`t want the death penalty? It is an interesting question.
Here`s what I want to debate with my expert panel first. You just heard Jodi Arias say there is no mitigators. "My attorney told me I have no mitigators." Ok. Do you buy it? Is this manipulation by Jodi or does she indeed have no mitigation? Starting with Stacey Honowitz for the prosecution.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, listen, she has to discuss with her lawyers the possibility of whether or not there are actually mitigating factors that the jury would buy into. Quite frankly under Arizona law, it doesn`t sound like she has a lot of mitigating factors other than how old she is because quite frankly they want to know was it under duress that you committed this crime? Were you an active participant or just a minor role -- well, certainly she did it all by herself.
I mean there are certain -- was it for -- you know, did somebody make her do it? There are different factors you have to look at. So her lawyers might have told her there is not a lot for us to go on, so that part of it might not actually be a manipulation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Randy Zelin for the defense. What about all her kooky behavior?
RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Mitigating factor number one is the difference where, hey, I`m not legally insane, and it is not a defense, but my elevator doesn`t go up to the top floor. And my ability to appreciate right from wrong was impaired. My ability to know that what I`m doing and to control my behavior was impaired.
The 18 days that she spent testifying showed that jury -- and I was lucky enough to be on your show, Jane, a number of times with a number of different experts -- personality disorder, this kind of disorder, that kind of disorder, so there is no question that in my mind she saved her own life with that 18 days of testimony because they could see, this woman, she isn`t all there; and when you look at just the nature of the death no execution there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Look, first of all, have we not learned anything from this four-month long trial? What we should have learned is you can`t believe a word that comes out of Jodi Arias` mouth. Not one word. So discard her interview right away.
Second of all, her attorneys are going to come up with some mitigating factors. They`re just not going to stand there and not come up with anything. The question, of course, is will whatever factors they drum up be effective? That`s the big question.
HONOWITZ: That`s the difference between -- you can always go to court and ask for a mitigator. It doesn`t mean the jury is going to buy into it. The court is going to find that it is not a mitigating circumstance and quite frankly sitting there those 18 days without any bit of remorse, even afterwards when she gave an interview, you didn`t hear any remorse --
LEIBERMAN: I agree.
HONOWITZ: -- and the fact that she`s not mentally ill, she doesn`t know boundaries. There is a difference.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen --
LEIBERMAN: I agree. She hasn`t shown one morsel of remorse from the day this crime happened, to today. And that is going to really hurt her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, on this point of mitigators, and people who might speak on behalf of her, you talked to her own mother and her own mother is saying, "I don`t know."
It sounds like has the defense thrown in the towel here? How is it that her own mother is saying I don`t know if I`m going to speak on her behalf?
CASAREZ: Right. You know, in talking with her mother, I got the distinct gut feeling that she does not believe she is testifying and that she`s not testifying. We can`t confirm that. We don`t know that. But that was the feeling I got when I spoke with her because she just didn`t know what was happening. You would know what`s happening. You would be told that you`re going to take the stand to help save your daughter`s life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to wonder, is that because Jodi took the witness stand and threw her own mother under the bus and said "Oh my mother hit me with a wooden spoon." And if it is not true, does the mother think, "Well, if I take the stand to defend my daughter, then I`m going to be cross examined by Prosecutor Martinez who is going to ask me, well, did you ever hit her with a wooden spoon." And since I didn`t, because let`s say it is a lie, like a lot of other things she said, then they`re going to catch me in a lie.
Quickly, Stacey Honowitz, could that be what she`s worried about?
HONOWITZ: Well, absolutely. They know that they`re going to be cross-examined. Anything they get up there and they say, their credibility is an issue. So if they cross examined her, you`re 100 percent right. If Jodi Arias made these allegations against the mother and they`re not true, well then where does it stand? So she might have said I`m not testifying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This has been one of most highly sexualized trials we have ever, ever broadcast. The jury heard explicit stuff, straight from the mouth of Travis Alexander and Jodi and that phone sex call recorded less than a month before the killing. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM: I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
ARIAS: What`s that?
ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. That`s so debasing. I like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to go to a very special guest we have on right now. I know that`s a difficult subject to have as an intro, but frankly it was a lot of the trial. Dan Freeman, thank you for joining us tonight. You spent a lost time with Travis and Jodi and you also traveled. There is a book called "A Thousand Places to See before You Die". And they were checking off the list. You traveled with them to the Grand Canyon and other places.
Were you aware at all of what Jodi would characterize as the secret sexual relationship?
DAN FREEMAN, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I never saw anything about - - anything that would lead me to believe much about the relationship and what was said. To me, they had a very normal relationship. And I know maybe they got physical at times, but there was nothing that seemed out of the ordinary as a friend who went on trips with them all the time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I understand that you were kind enough to let her stay with you when she was attending and you presumably the memorial for the person we later found out that she had killed -- Travis Alexander.
On the other side of the break, I want to talk to you about her behavior when she`s going to the memorial for the person that she actually secretly killed and pretending that she`s all filled with sadness and grief.
Stay right there -- more on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will Jodi sit on death row? Will she die by lethal injection? Is Jodi playing the blame game? Is Jodi crazy? Jodi -- crazy or cunning? Will the jury send Jodi to death row? We`re all over it this week. This is going to be the crucial week in this case. 7:00 p.m. Eastern, every night the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. There you see Jodi Arias standing on her head. But sometimes she`s was out hiking and having a good time, going to places like the Grand Canyon with Travis Alexander. They were -- they bought this book "A Thousand Places to See before You Die" and they were checking off the list and Travis` good friend Dan Freeman was on some of those trips with his sister.
Dan, thank you so much for joining us. Now, let`s move forward to the memorial service. You allowed Jodi Arias out of the kindness of your heart to stay with you and your family during the memorial service for Travis Alexander. Here is this young woman who has secretly killed Travis, a lot of people are talking about her because she was a stalker, and there is buzz, but you gave her the benefit of the doubt.
What were some of the strange things that she did while she was staying with you?
FREEMAN: Well, while she was there, she was really quiet. I picked her up at the airport, she gave me a hug at the airport. And took her back to, you know, to my parents` house and she stayed there. There were several times throughout the week that my mother had found her curled up in a fetal position outside on the sidewalk or in the grass or somewhere in the home, just crying and hugging her knees to her chest. My mom would kind of put her arm around her and take her back in and sit her down and try to get her to eat something or drink something.
But throughout the entire week, she was quiet. I don`t think I had a good conversation with her. She talked to another friend of ours a little bit more.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let me jump -- let me jump in. Let me jump in. You said she`s lying in a fetal position on the sidewalk, crying? That sounds pretty crazy to me.
FREEMAN: Yes. I didn`t see it. My mom just said she was really worried about her and that she was taking Travis` death really hard. We had no idea that she killed him at the time. We couldn`t see it happening. But it is definitely unusual.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you were the one, you were one of those who called Jodi, said she was obviously close to Travis, to tell her that Travis had found dead. Tell us about that conversation what was her reaction given that we now know she knew very well that Travis was dead because she killed him.
FREEMAN: From what I knew, that I had been told, was just that he had been shot, and he had been stabbed multiple times and that he was dead. And I called -- I asked if anyone had called Jodi yet, they said, no, no one has and you should be the one to call her. So I called her up and she picked up. I said, "Hey, Jodi, I just have to let you know, Travis is gone." I had a hard time saying it. She got really quiet and started -- sounded like she started to choke on her own tears and started to cry. She didn`t have a lot to say other than, "Really? He`s gone?"
And I didn`t know what to say to her. After a few minutes, I told her to cry and call me if she needed anything. But there was a few other people I had to call and got off so that she could be alone with her grief. Or what I thought was her grief.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you`re talking to her, you`re sitting there with your ear to the phone going, this is a little weird, I`m getting chills, I`m getting -- did you get creeped out at all?
FREEMAN: No. I didn`t get creeped out at all. I felt bad for her because I thought here she had lost somebody that she really cared about. I had no idea at that time that she killed him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable stuff. So many people have said that there they are, in her -- she`s in their midst at the memorial service, going up and hugging people and they`re all -- some people were suspicious, some people weren`t. You seem like a very accepting, kind person. Will it give somebody the benefit of the doubt?
But, you know, the killer is in their midst at the memorial service. What must that be like?
More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Toby, oh, my gosh, the cover of a magazine. And Roo says, "Hey, you`ll rue the day that you don`t let me sit here and look out the window." And Lola says "I`m hip. I`m cool, I`m making the scene." And bailey says "I`m just all-American, right here on the porch having a good time." I love all of you guys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I wanted to go home and act as normal as I could. For the time being, I didn`t know what to think, I just wanted to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this was what Jodi Arias wanted? She`s now a household name. "Saturday Night Live" even spoofed her this past weekend. Watch this from NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chair calls Miss Jodi Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, I`m sorry, but Miss Arias is a 32- year-old woman who was just convicted of killing her boyfriend. I fail to see what possible insight or expertise that she could bring to the event in Benghazi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you would be pleasantly surprised. Miss Arias is a poised and intelligent --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, if you ask me, I think this witness has been called for the sole purpose of boosting the ratings for these hearings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When were you first made aware that our consulate was under attack?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it still going on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very serious but with a very serious point.
Let`s go out to the phone lines. William in Kansas, your question or thought -- William, Kansas?
WILLIAM, KANSAS: How are you doing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good, thank you.
WILLIAM: Well you want my thought? I think they should give Jodi Arias some time in the pen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Huh?
WILLIAM: I think they should give Jodi Arias some time in the pen, because murder is one of the top sins. When will the drama end?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We have to go break. Yes, murder is a top sin and yes, "Thou shalt not kill." In fact she even says in her interrogation tape. She believes in the Ten Commandments. Never mind, I guess not.
More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Make sure to join us every week night this week, 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on HLN, because this is going to be perhaps the biggest, most dramatic week of the entire trial now that she`s been convicted of Murder One. The prosecutor Juan Martinez is going to make his case that the killing of Travis Alexander was cruel. If the jury then votes beyond a reasonable doubt unanimously, that yes, it was cruel, she is one giant step closer to possibility of getting the death penalty by lethal injection.
We`re going to have the very latest tomorrow and Wednesday and Thursday and Friday. So please join us for this monumental week.
Nancy Grace is up next.
END
