Return to Transcripts main page
Jane Velez-Mitchell
Closed-Door Hearing Held in Jodi Arias Case
Aired May 14, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, yet another mystery closed-door hearing in the Jodi Arias trial. What does it all mean? We are now less than 24 hours away from Jodi Arias back in front of the jury. Will she take the stand to try and save her own life after telling the whole world she wants to die?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: Personally, if I had my choice, I would take the death penalty.
Listen, if I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.
I just wanted to die. I wanted to just -- I just wanted it to be done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just said, "I want to die."
ARIAS: If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
I don`t want to spend the rest of my life in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias, convicted of first-degree murder for brutally stabbing her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slitting his throat and shooting him in the head.
She may be off suicide watch tonight, but she`s now in closed custody. Translation, solitary confinement. Jodi is kept in a cell by herself and only allowed out for one hour a day to shower and make phone calls unless she`s in court.
Tonight, new claims Jodi is tweeting again through another party. Is Jodi mentally stable enough to fight for her life? Here`s what she told KSAZ in that highly controversial post-guilty-verdict interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a sense of where the public feeling is about you, whether you`re liked or not liked? I mean...
ARIAS: I get the sense that there is great division on both sides, but I believe the majority is against me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are your thoughts on that?
ARIAS: A psychologist once explained to me that society has this need to persecute people. They get some sort of gratification from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Jodi playing the martyr card again? If Jodi thinks the whole world is against her, maybe she should stay in solitary.
What do you think? I want to hear from you tonight. Call me: 1-877- JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to HLN legal correspondent Beth Karas, on the ground in Phoenix, Arizona. You`ve been at court trying to figure out what the heck is going on with yet another mystery closed-door hearing. What`s the latest? What have you found out?
BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don`t know a lot. But we do know that Jodi Arias was present. The Alexanders, two of them, Samantha and Steven Alexander, were present. The next of kin have a right to be present at a hearing any time Jodi Arias is there, open court or closed.
Detective Flores was there, Juan Martinez. I saw the mitigation specialist carrying clothes on a hanger, but I didn`t see the defense attorneys. They probably arrived separately or earlier, and they went up to court through the private entrance, the secure elevators where inmates travel, perhaps.
But the hearing lasted maybe an hour or so. And right now...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can I ask you a question? You`re saying you don`t know now. We heard some people speculating. This is sheer speculation, people. That because the defense had said, "Look, we don`t want the Alexander family to testify in person, and we want it to be on video tape," someone said, well, maybe that`s what they were doing today.
Is that a possibility that they were doing their "This has destroyed our family" conversation, where they get to actually give their impact statement on tape, or has the judge not ruled? Personally, I think they should be allowed to just give it however they want, in person, in the flesh, at the time, live.
KARAS: Right. You know, I -- I think we`d be aware of it if the judge had ruled on that. So it`s highly unlikely that that`s what happened behind closed doors. Moreover, I don`t think they were there long enough for those statements to be recorded. However, I can`t say for sure that didn`t happen.
I do think that they`ll be testifying in person. I did not think that that motion had much merit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So a mystery hearing today. This is the second mystery hearing in a row. Remember, we were all supposed to start this aggravation phase last week, and it stopped and then there was another mystery hearing. So the mystery continues as the most dramatic phase of the trial is about to get started tomorrow.
In fact, I am heading to Arizona tomorrow morning, crack of dawn to be there for whatever happens. Jodi now on closed custody. It`s a fancy way of saying solitary confinement. Back in her own jail. And again, we used to call it solitary confinement.
Here`s what it`s like. She`s in a cell by herself 23 hours a day. The hour that she`s let out is to shower and a phone call. Her visits are noncontact except with her lawyers. And she has to be leg chained and waist chained wherever she`s moved. She`s checked every 15 minutes.
This is obviously something that Jodi is not going to be happy about, given what she told KSAZ and "48 Hours."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I said years ago that I`d rather get death than life. And that still is true today.
If a conviction happens, I know that I won`t be the first person to be wrongly convicted and possibly wrongly sentenced for either life in prison or death penalty. And personally, if I had the choice, I would take the death penalty, because I don`t want to spend the rest of my life in prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Inmates are put on closed custody for one of two reasons: the nature of their charges. She`s just been found guilty of murder one. Or their behavior: She`s just said she wants to die. And she was just taken off suicide watch.
This is a huge change from Jodi`s life before conviction, when she was in general population. She was able to make friends. She was let out of her cell for up to 16 hours a day.
Let`s debate it with our expert panel. Should Jodi Arias be in solitary? Starting with Jordan Rose for the prosecution out in Arizona.
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: You know, Jane, I think she should be in solitary confinement, although it will be very expensive for the citizens of Arizona.
I think that`s because Jodi is a manipulator. And she`s a master manipulator. And while there is probably no decorum in prison, there`s certainly an order that must be prescribed to for all prisoners. And I would frankly be concerned that Jodi would try to disrupt that and control those prisoners. And who knows what will happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom?
BRIAN SILBER, ATTORNEY: Then why not -- why not wait until she does something wrong and use it as a punishment? Solitary confinement is cruel.
(CROSSTALK)
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: She`s a convicted murderer right now.
SILBER: Doesn`t mean she should be in solitary confinement. Where in the law does it say -- and I`ll point out, she has yet to be sentenced. She might be convicted but she has yet to be sentenced. Solitary confinement...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Give Lisa Bloom a chance.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa.
LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST: There`s no question about that. And the United States is one of the few countries that even imposes solitary confinement on paper. It should only be done if she`s a threat to others or others are threatening her and the prison officials are not able to protect her. Other than that, she should be with the general population.
SILBER: That`s why we have -- that`s why we have super max prisons.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline?
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, ATTORNEY: I agree. Unless she`s made statements, and she has -- she gave an interview to the news -- that she was a threat to herself. So this may be one of the reasons why she is in solitary confinement.
However, if she`s in there for bad behavior -- and again, we don`t have any proof that there`s any bad behavior -- she should not be in there. But if she is going to attempt suicide, if there`s a good-faith belief that others think she`s going to do it and they need to protect her, then I...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Then put her on suicide watch. It`s different. It`s different.
SILBER: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Suicide watch is different...
SILBER: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... from solitary confinement.
Now, let`s talk about another issue. Jodi, she may be facing the ultimate penalty. But guess what she`s all about, reportedly? Reportedly. Her tweets. Yes.
Just last night, she tweeted again. Quote, "Any donations to my family or me are made only at JodiAriasIsInnocent.com. Any other source asking for donations is fraudulent. Thank you."
And in another recent tweet she wrote, "My thoughts at this point are very minimal. I`m very saddened by the evil events that have taken place over the last few years."
Jean Casarez, HLN legal correspondent, the most evil event has been the murder of Travis Alexander, for which she was just convicted. What do you know about these tweets?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that`s an interesting word she used, "evil." You know, the Twitter account was taken down after she was convicted of first-degree murder. This is a brand-new Twitter account that was put up. Maybe it designates she wants to live and she wants to do these type of things, this tweeting.
You know, she`s being monitored every 15 minutes in the jail cell that she`s in right now. And I think that close custody, being monitored every 15 minutes, denotes that they`re still a bit concerned, even though she`s not on official suicide watch.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s fascinating to me that you`re facing perhaps the scariest thing anybody can ever face, like tomorrow, court, and we`re going to be all over there, going to be live in Arizona where these jurors are going to hear evidence from prosecutor Juan Martinez that says the vicious killing of Travis Alexander was cruel, that aggravator should bring us to now considering the death penalty. And what is she doing? She`s tweeting. That is really, in my opinion, crazy.
Tammy, Kentucky, your question or thought? Tammy, Kentucky.
CALLER: Yes, Jane. I saw earlier where the abortion doctor who was found guilty of first-degree murder, he made a plea deal and now doesn`t have to get the death penalty. Did Jodi Arias do the same thing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. Well, that`s brilliant. Beth Karas, is it possible that they were in there talking and negotiating where they somehow circumvent this aggravation phase that`s set to start tomorrow?
KARAS: Listen, anything is possible. But knowing Juan Martinez and what we have seen of him, and what he`s put into prosecuting this case, I doubt he`s taking death off the table.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s fascinating that they`re in there having this mystery meeting, and we don`t know what it`s about. So again, more speculation.
But tomorrow, the big day. I`m going to Arizona. I will be there live outside the courthouse. Life or death. What will it be? Who will talk and make what argument? We`re going to debate more of that on the other side. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As to count one, first-degree murder...
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: You heard it here first. Guilty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Murder in the first degree.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Premeditated.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN ANCHOR: Murder one conviction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next, 12 men and women must decide if Jodi will face life or death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot that .25 auto? Have you ever touched it? The one that was stolen?
ARIAS: No, I`ve never seen it. My grandpa says it looks like a toy gun. I don`t know what a .25 looks like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now, tomorrow, we enter the crucial penalty phase, the aggravation phase, where the prosecutor is going to say, "Hey, this was cruel. Let`s give her the death penalty."
And then it`s up to Jodi`s defense team to try to save her life, and they have an uphill battle. Why? Well, for many reasons, but especially because right after the verdict Jodi Arias did an interview with a local TV station saying she wants to be put to death. Listen to this from KSAZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I said years ago that I`d rather get death than life, and that still is true today. I believe death is the ultimate freedom, so I`d rather just have my freedom as soon as I can get it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are saying you actually prefer getting the death penalty rather than being in prison for life?
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it with our expert panel. What should Jodi`s defense team do to try to keep her off Death Row and from ultimately being put to death by lethal injection? Starting with Jon Leiberman, HLN contributor.
LEIBERMAN: You know, Jodi is doing herself no favors. Every time she opens her mouth, she continues to show that she wants it to be all about her. That she wants the spotlight on her. She has not shown one ounce of remorse.
It`s just like when she was on the stand and she looked in the eyes of each of those 12 jurors and she lied. She lied about everything from the mundane to the important. Those jurors, if you look back at the jury questions, they asked many of the same questions of Jodi over and over, almost begging for Jodi to tell them the truth. And she did not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Jon, what should she do now? What should she do now to save herself from lethal injection? And I will throw it out to Lisa Bloom.
BLOOM: Well, it is all about her in the death penalty phase. She puts forth mitigators, which are things about her life that were different and difficult. Maybe she`s got an emotional disturbance. Maybe she was abused as a child.
None of these are an excuse for killing another human being, but they may get her off of the death penalty onto life in prison without the possibility of parole. That`s what the team is hoping for.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me say, I think she should play this tape of her standing on her head. Because to me, I think if the jury would see all this crazy behavior, the hair flip and the headstand and, of course, the highly sexualized -- my personal favorite -- backbend over the chair where she kind of spreads her legs in the interrogation room, I think that they might start to realize more than they have before that she`s -- she`s, you know, cuckoo in the head, big time, Brian Silber.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
SILBER: Jane, here`s -- here`s the real issue. And I suspect this might be some of the things they were discussing today. Her statements in that -- that interview create a conflict with her lawyers. You know, she`s saying she may want the death penalty. She may be instructing her lawyers, "I don`t want you to put on any evidence of mitigation." And here are her attorneys who are tasked with the job of defending her. So this creates a very unusual problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline.
GOMEZ: Alternatively, I was shocked that, based on the interview she had with the news channel, that the defense attorneys have not called for her to undergo another mental evaluation. Perhaps that`s what they were discussing.
SILBER: I suspect that is going on.
GOMEZ: She wanted to kill herself. Also, in regard to mitigating factors, again, the issue for her is going to be is post-traumatic stress syndrome and borderline personality disorder enough to be a mental impairment? Because that`s what they want to see for a mitigating factor. Her ability to think substantially when she committed the crime.
(CROSSTALK)
GOMEZ: They have -- listen, let me finish my point. The defense has to prove that there`s a causal connection between any child with violence, with the domestic violence she testified about, between domestic violence and when she committed the crime. So the defense does have a very big burden.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman, you`re holding your mouth open like you`re in a dental exam. So go ahead.
LEIBERMAN: I`m sure that Jodi`s attorneys -- I`m sure that Jodi`s attorneys told her not to do that interview with the television station. She did it anyway. She wasn`t...
GOMEZ: That proves that she`s mentally impaired. That would prove the point that she has a mental illness. There`s something wrong. A normal person doesn`t act that way.
LEIBERMAN: There`s something wrong with her. It doesn`t mean she`s mental.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold on. I want to get all your arguments. And we`re going to keep arguing on the other side, OK? Because I`m wondering, is she fighting with her attorneys? Is that why we`ve had two mystery hearings where everybody is behind closed doors? Is she having an argument with her attorneys? She saying, "Do it this way"; they`re saying to do it that way?
More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The aggravating factor of cruelty will be the basis on which any sentence of death could be imposed.
JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER TRIAL: A first-degree murder is especially cruel if the victim suffers physical pain or mental anguish and the defendant knew or should have known the victim would suffer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias. But that doesn`t matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. She`s grinning there. I have no idea why. I would be, like, up in arms, God forbid, if I was in a similar situation and my attorney said. "I don`t like her either." But that`s what he said.
And it only got worse from there because after she was convicted of murder one, she goes on to give an extensive interview with a local TV station, KSAZ, where she says, "I don`t want to live, kill me. I want to die. I want the death penalty."
So we`re debating now, to try to figure out, given that there`s been two mystery hearings that nobody wants to talk about, is she in some kind of fight with her attorneys? Are her attorneys saying -- and I`ll throw this out to Lisa Bloom, because you have covered so many, so many cases. Is it possible that her attorneys are saying, "Look, judge, we need to do this. We need to call her mother up to the stand."
"No, I don`t want that. Don`t call my mother."
Remember, her mother said, "I don`t know if I`m testifying." Wouldn`t she know by now at this 11th hour whether she was testifying in the mitigation phase -- Lisa.
BLOOM: It could be. But Jane, let`s keep in mind that she has the right to volunteer for the death penalty, if she wants to do that. It`s happened a number of times in Arizona. It`s happened to female convicted murderers in Arizona.
But before she can do that, the court has to hold a competency hearing to make sure that she`s competent to make that choice. And if I had to speculate, my guess would be that she is going to stick with her position that she wants the death penalty.
And so now that`s really thrown a monkey wrench into this whole thing, because her attorneys thought they were fighting the death penalty. She`s instructing them that she wants to volunteer for the death penalty, and so the court wants to make sure that she`s competent to make that choice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I know we`re supposed to be debating, but does everybody agree with Lisa Bloom? Raise your hand. I`m -- let`s go to the panel. Let`s raise our hands, because I want to see. Wait. Come on, nobody`s -- are you kidding me? Well, let`s debate it then, Jordan Rose.
ROSE: I don`t think she wants the death penalty. Why would we start to believe her now? I mean, everything else that she`s ever said is a lie. I think this is some bizarre mind game that she`s trying to go forward with in order to get life in prison.
I mean, she doesn`t want to die. She`s a narcissist. She wants to live. She wants to be interviewed on television for the next 30 years if the sheriff will allow that to occur. This woman does not want to die.
And the only chance that they have of saving her from death is for them to put on some evidence -- a psychiatrist, not a psychologist, a psychiatrist -- which says she`s crazy and some friend or relative that talks about the good deeds that she did, the time she...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
ROSE: ... took an elderly person to lunch or was active in the church.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Silber.
LEIBERMAN: Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Or I`ll throw it to you, Jon Leiberman, she can`t bring her mother up. I`m thinking she said her mother beat her with a wooden spoon. We all heard that. Well, let`s say it didn`t happen. How is she going to get her mom up there to say -- she`s going to -- her mother is going to have to get up like kind of the Cindy -- the Cindy and Casey relationship and say, "Yes, I beat her with a wooden spoon," even though she told the investigator, the detective, basically Jodi made up stuff since she was 14 about how bad they were, and they weren`t bad at all.
LEIBERMAN: Yes, I think -- well, the mother, I think, would have to be honest and say, "Look, we had a rough relationship. We had some bumpy parts, but here are the good sides of Jodi."
I`ll tell you this, Jane. And I`d like to hear the panel`s opinion, too. I think Jodi Arias actually wants to get up during the mitigation phase and be heard again. Based on everything we know about Jodi Arias, you can`t tell me that she`s saying to her attorneys, "I don`t want to go up one more time." I think she`s begging them to let her go up, and they`re saying no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Brian Silber, for all we know, she`s saying, "I want to get up there and sing."
SILBER: Well, Jane, the real issue right now is her state of mind. And I`ll tell you something: As a criminal defense lawyer, I`ve seen this before. This is what I call martyr syndrome. When someone is facing a mountain of evidence against them, an awful, terrible case, all of a sudden, they say, "You know what? Lock me in the cell and throw away the key and just forget about me, kill me," all these horrible things. But it`s situational.
And I think once the initial shock of her conviction passes and she`s got time to mentally recuperate from that, she`s going to change her mind. And that`s going to be a very serious problem with this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
SILBER: Because if this judge allows them to go forward with the stipulation to the death penalty, it`s going to raise a whole bunch of issues down the road.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you, she`s also -- I`ll tell you, she`s a drama addict. She is a drama addict. And I think this -- she`s drumming up more drama with this TV interview, painting herself as this sort of romanticized victim when she`s the one who did the killing. She still hasn`t come to terms with what she`s done and owned it and taken accountability for it.
So how is she going to get up there and express remorse when she hasn`t done that up till this point? More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS (singing): O, holy night, the stars are brightly shining.
(speaking): Before they book me, can I clean myself up a little bit?
You should have at least done your makeup, Jodi. Gosh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: This was a very directed attack.
KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Out of control. Sudden heat of passion. She simply snapped.
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED FOR MURDER: There`s a lot of regret.
MARTINEZ: Wound to the neck, whether or not he was alive at the time that that was rendered, if you like.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe he was.
MARTINEZ: She`s killed him three times over.
NURMI: You and Travis had an agreement that you would attend each other`s funerals?
ARIAS: Something to that effect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: We are on the eve of perhaps the most crucial day in court in the Jodi Arias trial. She`s already been convicted of murder one and tomorrow the aggravation phase is supposed to begin. I will be traveling to Arizona tomorrow morning and will be at court for that crucial hearing. We`ll bring it to you live -- everything that`s happening tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. Eastern on this show.
But the question is, with all these mystery hearings, two so far. One just today, could there be some kind of shocker tomorrow? Now, Travis` brother and sister were seen going into the courthouse this afternoon. There was this secret hearing, a mystery hearing. Some wondered, well, could they be taping their victim impact statements because Samantha and Stephen are the two siblings who were supposed to speak on behalf of the family during the mitigation phase where they talk about how this has shattered their lives.
The defense argued they shouldn`t be allowed to talk in open court; that they should have to video tape their statements. We haven`t heard much from the family because they`ve been told not to talk. But Travis` sister had plenty to say about Jodi Arias right after the murder to "48 hours". Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA ALEXANDER, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S SISTER: I think that she was just basically like a drug to him. I knew that it was murder. I knew it. I knew it. I knew something in my heart like something really bad and I immediately thought Jodi.
Don`t be fooled by Jodi`s sweet demeanor and her public speaking skills. She`s a liar and she`s evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to Beth Karas on the ground in Phoenix, Arizona outside the court. Beth, could we have a shocker tomorrow? Given all these mystery hearings, is it possible that we go to court tomorrow and Jodi Arias says "I`ve told my attorneys I want the death penalty just like I said to the local TV station? I don`t want to continue this anymore, give me the death penalty."
BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: No, that wouldn`t happen before the aggravation phase. The jury has to make a determination whether or not that aggravator of especially cruel exists. If they say yes to that, maybe there`ll be the drama that you said but not before tomorrow`s phase.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: For sure. Ok. So, tomorrow, unless she`s put back in the psych ward or something like that, this will go on. We`re not going to have any -- what I would call shenanigans?
KARAS: Well, you know, there`s always a possibility something unexpected is going to happen. But right now, there does not seem to be a roadblock. It seems like it`s going to go forward at 10:00 local time tomorrow, 1:00 Eastern.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it. Should Travis` family be allowed to confront the killer in open court or should they as the defense has demanded in a motion be forced to tape record their comments about how this vicious killing shattered their lives starting with Jon Leiberman.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: This family didn`t ask to be thrust into the spotlight. Travis didn`t ask for his entire life to be put out there for everything. Yes, this family should be given a voice. They should be able to look Jodi Arias in the eye, if they choose, and say here is what you have done to our family. Here is the difference you have made and will make in every day we wake up for the rest of our lives by taking the man we love so much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Silber?
BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, in law we have to have live testimony. Personally, I understand why the defense is making this motion, you know, it will be less hard hitting to watch a video. But they do have the right to testify in live person.
However, what I think would be inappropriate is if their testimony was an entire session of crying and pleading. And their feelings are justified, let me say that clearly. I`m not trying to minimize their pain and suffering. But the appeal to the jury cannot be strictly based on emotion. It has to be based on testimony. So there has to be that balance between telling the jury what they feel versus their feelings.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline is saying -- ok. Lisa?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, AVO.COM: These people have had their young family member brutally murdered. How dare anyone criticize them for crying or showing emotion on the stand?
(CROSSTALK)
SILBER: Excuse me, hold on. Don`t put words in my mouth, I`m not criticizing them. I`m talking about prejudicial testimony. Do not accuse me of criticizing them. That`s not what I said. Get your facts straight. What I`m saying is they cannot get up there and do something that is prejudicial. And guess what; if that`s what goes down, this will come back on appeal. You all want a clean conviction. That`s the right thing to do here.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let Lisa Bloom -- ok, you`ve had your say. Lisa, finish up. Lisa.
BLOOM: Victim`s almost always cry in the victim impact phase of a murder case. They cry because they are human beings, they are not robots. They`re hurt and upset by what happened. And Jodi Arias should sit there and listen to what they have to say.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez for the defense.
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They are not required to give their testimony and the judge isn`t required to have them testify. If it`s going to cause prejudice, which is the defense`s concern, then the defense is going to make the argument that hey, you know what, they can have the same effect by testifying via video, by having a videotaped statement. You are going to hear the same words. You`re going to get the same impact. They`re not there.
Remember, Jodi said in the news interview that she gave right after her conviction that -- let me finish my statement -- she made it clear she didn`t like looking at them because they looked like Travis and it reminded her of the person who abused her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now wait.
LEIBERMAN: Jodi Arias -- let me say something. Jodi Arias had 18 days to speak. This family deserves one day to speak.
BLOOM: Hear, hear.
GOMEZ: They can speak via video. No one is saying that they`re not going to speak.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know a little bit about video tape versus live. And let me tell you it`s a big difference.
LEIBERMAN: That`s what I`m saying. Jodi had 18 days live.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a big difference. The catharsis that occurs when you confront somebody face-to-face is extraordinary. This is an opportunity for them to heal, for them to have their peace. And I feel they`ll be disenfranchised if they can`t do it live.
Jordan Rose, I watched this trial for months on TV. Then I walked into the courtroom and I got a totally different sense of the horror and the tragedy being inside the courtroom. It`s better when it`s real and it`s real when it`s live. Jordan.
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Absolutely. The victim rights laws are there just for this.
BLOOM: That`s right.
ROSE: So, the victim`s have the right to confront the perpetrator. They lost their son. They lost their brother. I just can`t imagine that we would ever, ever want to filter or censor or even advise on what the victim`s should say. Let them go up there. Let them emote. Let them scream at her. Let them do what they need to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: My God. The BTK serial killer got up and was able to give a rambling statement. Remember the BTK serial killer who got up there and complimented the cops on a good job? He gets to stand-up this sicko serial killer and people are saying the victim`s, the family that lost their loved one can`t do the same? That`s crazy.
More on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: He was very funny. He loved making people laugh. He was just such a great example to me.
STEPHEN ALEXANDER, BROTHER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I always looked up to him growing up. I tried to do everything that he did and how he did it.
I remember I started shaving so I could grow side burns so I can look like him and actually try to emulate everything that he did to where people called me "little Travis".
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As the Jodi Arias trial reaches a dramatic conclusion, we are gearing up for another unbelievable murder trial. This woman, Karen Kelly is accused of murdering her boyfriend at her Florida home.
KAREN KELLY, ACCUSED OF MURDERING BOYFRIEND: Hi. Just get somebody here quick. He was shot in the head with a gun.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will this accused murderess blame the victim like Jodi blames Travis Alexander?
KELLY: I didn`t shoot him. He took the gun and shot himself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll be all over it. You don`t want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a bullet going through the brain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was kind of crammed to the bottom of the shower stall.
SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING JUDGE: To establish this aggravating factor, the state does not need to prove that the victim was conscious for each and every wound inflicted.
HORN: Dizziness followed by loss of consciousness.
MARTINEZ: You are the one that did this, right?
ARIAS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The very same jury that convicted Jodi Arias of murder in the first degree will now, starting tomorrow, have to decide if she deserves the death penalty -- death by lethal injection. Listen to what she told KSAZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: The worst out come for me would be natural life. I would much rather die sooner than later. Longevity runs in my family and I don`t want to spend the rest of my natural life in one place, you know. I`m pretty healthy. I don`t smoke, and I would probably live a long time. So that`s not something I`m looking forward to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s debate it with our expert panel. Should Jodi Arias get life or should she be put to death by lethal injection? Starting with Jordan Rose for the prosecution, an Arizona attorney.
ROSE: Jane, it was such a heinous crime. And I believe that already the prosecution has shown so much of Travis` suffering. I don`t see any other alternative rather than death in this particular situation. I don`t know how Jodi`s defense is going to get up there and indicate that Travis didn`t suffer. That`s what they need to show -- the suffering. He knew he was being inflicted with this brutal murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa -- Bloom. Do you think Jodi Arias should get death by lethal injection?
BLOOM: Jane, I`m opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. Most Western countries have abolished it. Innocent people get put to death, it`s racially-biased. And frankly, even in this case, where those other factors don`t apply, it is very, very expensive -- more expensive to us, the taxpayers than life in prison because there are so many appeals and we have to pay for all of those attorneys and all of those appeals for decades. It`s just not worth it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But, Jon Leiberman, in Arizona, the average person stays on death row 12 years and then they are executed. She`s 32, plus 10, 42 plus 2, you know 44 years old; she could be executed at the age of 44.
LEIBERMAN: I don`t think it`s a slam dunk by any means. I do think that this the aggravation phase is going to be fast, and then it`s going to be up to the jury -- life or death. I want what the victim`s family wants. If the victim`s family wants death in this case and the evidence bears that out and we get to that phase, then I think that`s what should happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez for the defense.
GOMEZ: It`s a tough case for the defense. Prosecution just has to prove at least one aggravating factor and if you look at the current women on death row, two have come from Maricopa County. This is a conservative county, very law and order. And we look at other states and we look at Arizona and they are not scared, they`re not shy at all about putting women on death row.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Silber for the defense.
SILBER: Here is my problem. I thought this was going to be a slam dunk for the prosecution until Kevin Horn testified in the rebuttal case. If you all remember correctly, his testimony was that Travis went down instantaneously upon being shot. If that`s correct, that means the prosecutor by bringing out this issue --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He changed that. He said no, no, no.
SILBER: He`s going to have a problem proving that there was suffering. And that`s one of the main reasons why juries impose the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. The prosecution`s whole case was that he was stabbed in the chest first, then he staggers over to the sink, he`s stabbed in the back and he stumbles to the edge of the bathroom, beginning of the bedroom where she slits the throat, she drags him back and shoots him near the shower after he was dead. That`s what they ultimately said. They may have misspoken at some point along the line, but that was their ultimate conclusion.
All right. Stay there. On the other side, an incredible guest who has an incredible story about Jodi Arias confronting her in a bathroom over Travis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Buster, you`ve got a little sucker, how cute. Gracie and Sonny holding hands. They say we`re a team, we`re a pair. Speaking of pairs, Mandy and Casey, they stick together, fair or foul weather. They love each other. And Haze, he says, yes, I`m playing with a ball by myself and I like it that way. I have a very good time, thank you very much.
We love all of you. What gorgeous animals. We love all animals.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, breaking news. You`ve got new information out of Arizona. Tell us.
KARAS: Yes. The Maricopa County Sheriff`s Office did release an advisory saying that per Judge Stephens order today, so this was part of the hearing today, the sheriff`s office cannot let any media interviews go forward at the jail anymore until the judge`s order`s lifted. So, Troy Hayden got the one interview. We don`t know when that order is going to be lifted. The Sheriff`s Department can`t even approach Jodi Arias with a list of people who now want to interview her, but they will do that after the order is lifted.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure she wanted to do more interviews. That`s probably what they`ve been arguing about, yes, I`d like to do this network and that network. Oh, my gosh, that puts it all into perspective now.
I want to bring in -- thank you for that, Beth -- I want to bring in our very a special guest, Clancy Talbot, a dear friend of the victim, Travis Alexander, who had a very strange experience with Jodi Arias. You were all at a Prepaid Legal event and you had locked arms with Travis, who is your friend. You`re married. And she took offense to that.
And then a short time later, the next day, confronts you in the bathroom. Tell us about that confrontation.
CLANCY TALBOT, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, I was at, you know, this national event where there`s thousands and thousands of people, and I have never ever been in the restroom by myself. It`s always flooded with, you know, other women. And somehow, she got me in there by myself and just confronted me and wanted to let me know that her and Travis were an item and that, you know, she`s not upset with me, she`s upset with Travis and that she just wanted to let me know that they were together. And she was more upset with Travis than she was with me and she was shaking and she was just really flustered.
And I wasn`t really sure what the whole thing was about to begin with, so I just kind of listened to her, and until my -- you know, she just kept saying it over and over. Until my friend came in, she just kept repeating herself. Then my friend came in and Jodi turned sideways and I left, so it was just really strange.
And I did also want to comment about her interview. She does not want the death penalty. That is typical Jodi manipulation 101. She does not want the death penalty. She wants people to think that`s what she wants so they will do the exact opposite. That will seclude her --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And how are you so sure of that?
TALBOT: It`s typical Jodi. She`s a master manipulator. She does not want to be secluded. That is the very last thing that she would ever want is to be by herself. Even if she does get the death penalty, she`ll be on death row for, I think like you said, you know, 12 years or longer. She will be in seclusion for those 12 years, and that is complete and utter torture to her.
She wants to be the center of attention. She needs, you know, that interaction with other people. That is the very last thing she wants.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating stuff. Thank you, Clancy. Stay right there. More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We only have a few seconds. How is the family of Travis Alexander holding up, Clancy?
TALBOT: They`re, you know, they`re really strong. They`re a rock for all of us. I mean they support us I feel like more than we support them, and it should be the other way around. They`re hanging in there, but it`s far from over. So I want to express their gratitude to all the supporters out there who have donated to the fund, the TravisAlexanderfund.com. A lot of people still asking how they can help this family and that fund is what they are, you know, using right now to stay out there and to, you know, get through this financially. So, TravisAlexanderfund.com.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Their lives have been put on hold as this drags on. I hope they get some kind of closure. Thank you so much, Clancy.
Nancy Grace next.
END
