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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Interview With Senator Kirsten Gillibrand About Sexual Misconduct In The Military; Calls For Blood In IRS Scandal Getting Louder And Louder; Madison Avenue Goes Mobile; O.J. Simpson Takes The Stand; Other Marshals: Tiger's Not A Liar; Treating Doctors' Emotional Wounds

Aired May 15, 2013 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

In other national news, it was bad enough that it happened once but now it has happened twice in just two weeks. A military member in charge of preventing sexual assault is being investigated for the stuff he is supposed to be preventing. An Army sergeant at Fort Hood is being investigated for alleged sexual assault and abusive sexual contact.

The Defense Department recently released some stunning numbers from an anonymous survey of active duty troops. Last year, 6 percent of active-duty women and 1 percent of active-duty men said they received unwanted sexual contact.

That's 26,000 cases and that's a problem.

Joining me now is Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York. She is introducing legislation tomorrow that would change how the military moves forward with sexual assault prosecutions.

Senator, thanks for joining us.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK: Pleasure to be on, Jake.

TAPPER: So, we have another case here, that's the second case in two weeks of a military officer in charge of preventing sexual assaults being investigated for sexual misconduct. You've said that calling this disturbing would be a gross understatement.

So, don't understate it. How would you describe it?

GILLIBRAND: It's an enormous problem. It is outrageous, to be honest, that men who are being charged with preventing sexual assault, to running these prevention programs, teaching men and women who are serving in the military, are actually committing the same offense or alleged to have committed the same offense. It's disgraceful. And we have to do much better by the men and women who serve in our military.

We have the greatest military in the world. We have men and women who will sacrifice everything. We should not be asking them to endure this kind of treatment. TAPPER: Senator, you've held hearings on this. You're introducing a bill which we'll talk about in a second, but this isn't a new problem. Senators before you took on the Tailhook (ph) sexual scandal in the early '90s. Has anything changed in military culture?

GILLIBRAND: I don't believe it has changed. This is nothing new. And that's what makes it even that much more urgent that we have to do something now. We continue to see this problem arising time and time again, and we need accountability. These victims deserve justice. We need to have transparency in the process.

And that's what my bill is going to do. It's going to change the way these cases are reported. It's going to change who decides whether they go to trial or not so that a victim has hope that he or she can see justice in their cases.

TAPPER: So your bill would remove the person looking into the allegation from the chain of command. That's how it's done --

GILLIBRAND: Correct.

TAPPER: -- with other investigations, especially those involving -- when somebody, when a soldier is killed. But your bill still would keep these decisions within the realm of the military.

GILLIBRAND: Correct.

TAPPER: What do you say to people who say, you know, these cases should be prosecuted in a civil court away from the military court?

GILLIBRAND: I actually think that the JAG attorneys, the prosecutors have been doing a strong job in terms of cases that actually are reported, doing the investigations, bringing them to trial, and having convictions.

Where the real challenge in the system seems to be is the reporting. And what the victims tell us, they tell us time and time again in their testimony, in my subcommittee, on films like "The Invisible War," and when we just talk to them informally, they tell us they don't report because they are afraid of retaliation, being marginalized, having their careers end or being blamed. And so what we have to do is create a different dynamic so they feel more comfortable reporting.

TAPPER: You mentioned "The Invisible War." That's the Academy Award nominated documentary about this horrible phenomenon in the military. Back in February, I spoke with one of the women featured in that film, Kori Choka. She served in the Coast Guard. She was raped by a supervisor. She was profiled in the film. I want to play for you how she described the experience to me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KORI CIOCA, SERVED IN THE COAST GUARD: After the experience, my trauma - it was horrible. It was almost even more traumatizing than the rape itself. I was -- I pretty much was not a shipmate anymore. I became -- I became the bad person. It wasn't the predator that was, you know, who to go after. I became -- I was attacked. I became the target.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: She became the target, she says.

GILLIBRAND: Yes.

TAPPER: So this is not just an issue of how these cases are prosecuted, how they're investigated. They're also about how these women are treated by the units afterwards. How can we make it up to people like Kori, who ended up leaving the service because of what happened and whose medical bills were denied by the VA? How can we make sure there is justice for them, not just in the justice system?

GILLIBRAND: Well, you know, her testimony is so powerful and profound. That's exactly what's driving our legislation. What the victims have said is that, you know, they might be able to survive the rape or the assault. But what they have a difficult time doing is surviving how they are treated after they report it. And that's what has to change. That's why we have to change how it's reported and who makes those decisions.

TAPPER: All right. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, thank you so much.

GILLIBRAND: Thank you.

TAPPER: Coming up on THE LEAD, who is going to jail? That's what the speaker of the House John Boehner wants to know. Will the IRS scandal really get that far? Our Politics Lead is next.

And six seconds to make a sale. That's the idea behind the new ads on vine. Is this the future of advertising in the age of the short attention span? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. Now the Politics Lead. No heads have yet rolled, but the calls for blood are getting louder and louder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOENER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The IRS has admitted to targeting conservatives even if the White House continues to be stuck on the word if. Now, my question isn't about who is going to resign. My question is, who is going to jail over this scandal?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Who is going to jail over this scandal? Speaker John Boehner wants to know. So, what has to happen to clean up the mess at the IRS and who is ultimately responsible before we start hauling anybody away? Let's bring in our political panel. David Drucker is senior editor of "Roll Call" magazine. Democratic strategist and former Hillary Clinton presidential campaign staffer Tracy Seppel. And CNN contributor and Republican strategist Ana Navarro.

These IRS staffers' jobs aren't just on the line. The Justice Department is opening a criminal investigation into this.

Tracy, the White House says they were unaware of all this. President Obama is right now meeting with Treasury Department officials. He has given this to Jack Lew, the Treasury Department secretary and said you handle this. Make sure we handle this right. How can he distance himself in a way that is believable? People don't seem -- even Jon Stewart was turning on the president saying oh, he learns everything from the news. How would you recommend it?

TRACY SEPPEL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I can't let that video clip go that you just showed of Speaker Boehner because his comments right there showed what shouldn't happen. And what shouldn't happen is that kind of overreaching, inappropriate, hyperbolic language.

What should happen and is happening both at the White House and hopefully among a bipartisan Congress is that there's an investigation being facilitated and supported. No hyperbole, no overreaching, no hysterics, but a careful and facilitated investigation with bipartisan support.

TAPPER: Ana, is it over reaching by Speaker Boehner to talk about "I want to know who is going to jail"?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it is an expression of frustration, frankly. We've seen scandal after scandal and we've seen little consequence for it. We've had four Americans dead in Benghazi. We've seen little consequence. We have this now. We are tired, I think, of people going on TV and saying, "The buck stops with me. I am the responsible one. Hold me accountable." And then nothing happens. So I think that's what you're hearing from him.

But I also think there should be more hysterics in the White House, and frankly, I think President Obama should be very upset if in fact the White House knew since April 22nd and he learned it from the news. That is either unbelievable or unbelievably incompetent by the White House staff that's keeping Obama on what? The top of Mount Olympus listening to harp music while all types of things are going down with the mere mortals. That is just unacceptable.

TAPPER: That is a nice, evocative image. I appreciate that.

David, we know that the White House Counsel's office was advised by the Department of Treasury Inspector General that prepared this report on the IRS that this report was coming out. We are still told by the White House that the counsel did not tell that to President Obama.

How are Democrats handling this on Capitol Hill? Obviously Republicans are outraged. I haven't heard a lot of Democrats coming to the president's defense or saying that the president is doing a good job handling this.

DAVID DRUCKER, "ROLL CALL" MAGAZINE: Jake, this is the first time we've seen I think since the president has been in office where congressional Democrats have joined with Republicans in criticizing the administration and promising to try and get to the bottom of something. It's typical for your party if your party is in the White House, you don't want to cause that guy a problem, and that's just the way things go. In Washington, a lot of politics is situational. A lot of ethics is situational.

But you saw with Max Baucus and more importantly to me, Harry Reid the Senate majority saying, I support Max Baucus in trying to get to the bottom of this. That's when I knew that the dynamic in trying to figure out what happened with the IRS is going to be a lot different than Benghazi and a lot different than other things that House Republicans have tried to get into.

And I think what's important for the president -- and we've seen in the past, presidents when you have a scandal or a potential scandal like to pretend they didn't know something. That is how they can distance themselves from in any way approving of what happened.

TAPPER: Right.

DRUCKER: But then you look as though you don't have control over your administration and that you're an incompetent manager. So, if I was the president what I would do is be very involved. And when it comes to the IRS investigation, be involved, want to get to the bottom of that. Make sure the American people know that. And in a sense take ownership over a problem that is under his purview ultimately because it is the executive branch.

TAPPER: Let's talk about where this IRS controversy scandal is going now because I've heard a lot of Republicans this week say this has huge ramifications for Obamacare, for the health care bill, because the IRS will be playing a role when it comes to the tax that individuals will have to pay if they do not get health insurance. And the administration is going to face right now the Congress is preparing to vote again after three dozen -- more than three dozen failed attempts to repeal Obamacare.

You've already said you think this might be a little bit of an overreach. But do you think that this IRS scandal has impact, will have impact on Obamacare?

NAVARRO: Yes. I do. I think, look. All of us can identify with this IRS scandal, and I think it's why it's having such repercussions and crossing the line. Because in life, there are two things you can't avoid in life. Death or taxes. All of us have some certain mistrust. I think nobody likes signing that check over to the IRS. And so you have a certain mistrust for that agency already.

And to see what that -- what's happening is very concerning for all Americans. Look, there but for the grace of God go I. This could be one day on the other side of the aisle, so we cannot let this precedent stand. Nobody can. I do think the Obamacare votes have become symbolic. We get it. Republicans don't like Obamacare. I would say to my people, let it get implemented. There is going to be plenty of problems with it. People are going to scream bloody murder, and then we're going to have to fix it.

TAPPER: All right. I have to leave it there. Tracy Seppel, Ana Navarro, David Drucker, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

If Don Draper only knew what the future of advertising would look like. Try making a sale in just six seconds.

Plus, golf is supposed to be a gentleman's game but the PGA Tour is starting to look a little more like the school yard fight. And Tiger Woods is in the middle of it. That and more when THE LEAD continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Our "Money Lead" now, it's only about 100 days old, but Vine, the app that lets you make 6-second video clips via your Twitter page, is already taking the advertising world by storm, and it's putting the power of Madison Avenue into the palm of your hand.

We learned this week one expert, Viner, inked a deal with Peanuts. That's right, Charlie Brown and the gang, to crank out 12 original videos using Vine making it the app's first official partnership.

THE LEAD's Erin McPike is here with more on the ad world's new love affair with social media.

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So because of social media, I want you to think back to the pre-social media easier times of the '90s, OK? So big companies like Ralph Lauren and Nike would sell clothing with their logo on them like the Polo and the Nike swoosh.

TAPPER: Sure.

MCPIKE: So all you had to do was buy the shirt and put it on in the morning and then you became a walking advertisement for them. So that was pretty crafty, but now in these high tech times, these big companies want you to do their work for them. That's what this is. They want you to use the power of your personal devices to make their ads for them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCPIKE (voice-over): From Licorice to lip stick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is it.

MCPIKE: Real estate to the real thing. Expensive TV commercials like these may soon be a relic of time gone by because web savvy consumers like you might produce the next iteration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A big budget TV spot can mean a few million bucks or weigh more than that and shooting on Vine is free. Posting a video to YouTube is free. It is inherently a lot cheaper than the traditional model.

MCPIKE: You've already seen the genius behind Doritos fan sourced Super Bowl ads. But now promotion for the people by the people is going mobile. Check out this creative video of our logo, but we didn't create it. Who did? The 23-year-old Khoa Phan, the rating king of Vine, Twitter's new video sharing app.

KHOA PHAN, STOP-MOTION DESIGNER: The process is go through the brain storming, sketch the rough idea, try to plan the frames out and then I put it all together.

MCPIKE (on camera): Anyone can make a Vine, but some of them might look a little amateur.

(voice-over): But Phan's creations have already caught the attention of major companies like Coke and Red Vines candy and this week, he signed a deal with the gang from Peanuts.

PHAN: I'm not experienced as, you know, it looks like I am. And it was just pretty crazy and it got like random phone calls somehow and we would like to work with you, talk to you about more things in the future, opportunities like, OK, I guess.

MCPIKE: In a recent CNBC interview, Revlon Chairman Ron Perelman announced major changes to the cosmetic company's ad budget.

RON PERELMAN, CHAIRMAN, REVLON: We at Revlon never used social media. This year in 2013 we're going to be about 30 percent so it should be digital. We'll drop our print by about 25 percent.

MCPIKE: Meanwhile, Hilton's Doubletree brand is going interactive. Last week the company launched DTour. The Facebook page encourages guests to upload personal images that will market the hotel to new customers.

MIKE SHIELDS, DIGITAL EDITOR, "ADWEEK": This generation smells marketing coming a mile away. They crave authenticity. They want real voices and they like to participate.

MCPIKE: So if you're a great photographer, a masterful home movie maker, or just like tweeting about Licorice, watch out. Big name companies may come calling any minute now.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MCPIKE: So just when you thought our attention spans couldn't get any shorter, 6-second ads now serving a purpose.

TAPPER: It's pretty incredible. That kid just had no training. He just had a natural skill for this?

MCPIKE: Yes. He had a natural skill unlike some of us who should just be reading books and not making --

TAPPER: All right, Erin McPike, thanks so much.

The "Sports Lead," smooth, confident, and relaxed? Not exactly what you expect from a guy fighting for his freedom, but that was the demeanor of O.J. Simpson as he took the stand today. The disgraced former football star is pushing for a new trial on robbery, assault, and kidnapping charges.

Simpson was convicted for storming into a Las Vegas hotel room in 2007 and roughing up two sports dealers he accused of stealing his sports memorabilia. But Simpson says his attorney at the time gave him bad legal advice and told him he had a right to get his stuff back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was his advice to you regarding --

O.J. SIMPSON: If they didn't give me the stuff you have to call the police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

SIMPSON: And that's when I told everybody involved that if they don't give it to me I'm going to get the police in there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, did you have any understanding whether you could detain people or not?

SIMPSON: Enough until the police came.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, so at this point your advice is no trespass on people's property.

SIMPSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can use some force.

SIMPSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can demand your property?

SIMPSON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, and if they refuse to give it to you, you can detain them for the police?

SIMPSON: Yes. But I had no doubt that they would give it to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: It's almost hard to believe that this is the first time we've ever heard O.J. Simpson testify given all the trouble he's been in over the past few decades. But he says that is because the original in this original case would not let him. Simpson is serving a 33-year prison sentence.

Conflicting accounts, allegations of lying? No we're not talking about Attorney General Holder's appearance on the Hill anymore. We're talking about the dust up between Tiger Woods and Sergio Garcia. Garcia accuses tiger of distracting him by taking out a club during his backswing Saturday. Tiger says he was told that Garcia had already played his shot.

Two course marshals have essentially accused Tiger of lying about that but two other marshals are giving tiger some cover. According to the "Florida Times Union" newspaper, they say there was some miscommunication and Tiger may not be remembering the time line right, but he is not lying about it. So that's the end of that, right? I guess, we'll see.

Coming up, they save lives, but who helps doctors when they can't get the images of the wounded out of their heads? That's next on THE LEAD.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston treated 39 victims from the marathon bombing. Its last patient was just discharged over the weekend but the hospital is left treating the emotional wounds of its staffers. Their solution is a peer program, doctors talking to doctors about the horrors they've seen.

Joining me now is Dr. Jo Shapiro. She is the director of the Center for Professional and Peer Support at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. Dr. Shapiro, thanks so much for joining us.

DR. JO SHAPIRO, PEER SUPPORTER, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: So Dr. Shapiro, you are one of 60 peer counselors at Brigham and Women's. We talked to one E.R. doctor who told us she had recurring nightmares about that day. Is that common?

SHAPIRO: I think it is, yes. There is a range of emotional experience after such a traumatic event. It is very personal, but there's certainly that people are really, it's a bit slow to recover for something so huge.

TAPPER: About how many staff members have been through this counseling? Has there ever been anyone who hasn't wanted to talk about what happened?

SHAPIRO: Well, I think that our approach has been that everybody responds in a different way, and healing happens in a different way. What we're doing is providing a place and time that they can talk about it with peers around people who are -- have seen similar traumatic things. And that forcing people to talk is not where it's at, but at least offering that moment and those times to be able to express your feelings can be really helpful to people.

TAPPER: Doctor, how does the bombing event compare to other traumatic events that you've had to do peer counseling for?

SHAPIRO: Yes. I think this has to be up there with really one of the hardest. The way it has been expressed to me by my colleagues who were there taking care of the patients is in the moment, of course, you're focused completely on the patient and family as you should be as a clinician.

But afterwards just the knowledge that what you're seeing in your patient was done intentionally to them by another person is particularly awful. And I think, also, adding that around that time it was very unclear about the safety of everyone around the clinicians working in the hospital and all the other hospital employees I think that made it more difficult as well.

TAPPER: Dr. Shapiro, lastly, will things ever be back to normal at Brigham and Women's?

SHAPIRO: Well, I think things will be different because we can't take back what's happened. I have to say that the show of support for each other and we have a whole wide range of support for each other has just been wonderful. And I think it's helped us feel even more a community than we ever felt before so in that sense there's that positive side of it. But I think there's a long recovery process and it will try to be there for each other to help along the way.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Jo Shapiro, thank you so much.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper and I leave you in the capable hands of Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."