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Extreme Cruelty Proven in Jodi Arias Aggravation Phase

Aired May 15, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live outside the Maricopa County Courthouse.

The decision is in. The verdict: extreme cruelty, proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That decision moves Jodi Arias one giant step closer to the possibility of death. Listen to the jury`s decision.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, verdict count one, aggravating factor, especially cruel. We, the jury, duly empanelled and sworn in the above-entitled action, upon our oath do find that the aggravating factor "especially cruel" has been proven, signed foreperson.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am here with two court watchers, Elizabeth and Mike. They were sitting pretty much directly behind Jodi Arias`s mother. You heard some things. This is obviously a very emotional time for everyone. What exactly did you hear?

ELIZABETH, COURT WATCHER: Absolutely, it`s emotional. But after the verdict came in, Jodi Arias`s mom, just kind of, everybody was filing out. And she said very quietly in a whisper, just "I just want to tell Jodi I love her." And it was just -- my stomach is still turning. It`s -- we were so close. I was directly behind her. And for a mother to say that, it`s just -- it`s beyond words.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did you hear? You were seated right next to...

MIKE, COURT WATCHER: I was next to Mrs. Arias. And right after the verdict was read, Jodi`s mother turned to her friend and said, "This is the beginning of the end." Which I found a very powerful statement. Very powerful. The courtroom was dead silent. And Jodi was just sitting there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: "This is the beginning of the end."

MIKE: This is the beginning of the end.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In other words, Jodi Arias`s mother completely understands the import and the enormity of the decision that was made today and how it does bring her daughter one giant step closer to the possibility of death by lethal injection.

MIKE: I would think so. It was interesting. Right before the verdict, she was sort of quietly joking and laughing a little bit. Right after the verdict was read, she said, "This is the beginning of the end." And things got a lot more somber and very quiet. I think she knows very well what lies ahead for her daughter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What an emotional, intense time in the courtroom.

And of course, incredibly high marks to prosecutor Juan Martinez. Virtually everyone I`ve spoken with said he really made the case for extreme cruelty in this killing. Let`s listen.


JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You can see by the rainbow on the wall that for him, that would be the end, and he went down.

Now, he went down with his head up, facing up, so that as he sat there or laid there, still alive and still breathing, he could still see. The last thing that Mr. Alexander felt as he laid there, as he could see up there, was this knife, this woman and this blade coming towards him. And it was only death that relieved that pain. And it was only death that relieved that anguish. And that is especially cruel.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now this is a very complicated process. To boil it down for us and explain what`s going to happen tomorrow, now that this verdict is, HLN correspondent Beth Karas.

Beth, a lot of people really don`t understand it. It`s confusing.

BETH KARAS, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this next and final phase, they call it the penalty phase here. It would not happen unless the jury found especially cruel was proven. Right? So the jury`s verdict today means we go to the last phase.

This is where the defense has an opportunity to put on evidence to argue in mitigation. In other words, spare Jodi Arias`s life.

But first, they`re going to hear -- the jury is going to hear from victim impact. They`ll hear victim impact statements from the next of kin of Travis Alexander. We think only two of them will speak, probably Samantha and Steven Alexander. Maybe four will speak. They can give a statement. They`re not going to be examined. It`s not testimony. They give a statement.

They cannot ask for the death penalty. They cannot tell the jury to give her death. They can talk about Travis and what their lives are like as a result of his death, how his death has affected them. That`s appropriate for victim pact.

And then the defense will put on evidence. It`s not going to finish tomorrow. It`s going to go into next week. There`s no court on Friday. The defense will put on evidence. They need to show that Jodi Arias has done good things in her life. Now, jurors know her for this vicious...


KARAS: Well, we don`t know for sure, but she may have done nice things to neighbors and maybe, you know, through her church, you know, she`s done nice things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But how are they going to -- I don`t understand how they are -- they are going to show that, because every journalist in America has been trying to get something about her past. They can`t find anything about her past. I mean, everybody is tight-lipped in Yreka.

She`s accused her mother of beating her with a wooden spoon, so if her mother gets up -- Do you think her mother`s going to get up?

KARAS: Well, I don`t know if her mother`s going to testify. She may not testify, and maybe because of that, because there`s evidence to the contrary to what she`ll be saying. And she didn`t have a great relationship with her daughter in the later years.

But there could be...


KARAS: ... a psychologist. Alyce LaViolette was originally on the witness list for this penalty phase. So she could be back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That could be, however, a double-edged sword for the defense, because a lot of people think she didn`t do any favors for the defense. Who knows?

I can tell you one thing: everybody who`s walked out of this courthouse, when I ask them, what was the moment that was the most gut- wrenching, aside from the verdict itself. They said when prosecutor Juan Martinez said, "Let us observe two minutes of silence for the time it took Jodi Arias to kill Travis Alexander." Let`s listen to a little bit of that moment of silence.


MARTINEZ: Well, this is a short period of time. It`s 1:38 and 20 seconds. Let`s sit for two minutes.


MARTINEZ: And now he got his throat slit. That seem like a short period of time? No, that wasn`t a short period of time. It was an incredibly long period of time to be continually stabbed, to be continually followed.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two minutes of silence and the family of Travis Alexander sobbing uncontrollably during that entire two minutes. Selin Darkalstanian, our senior producer, you`ve been in court the entire time. You were there for that incredible two minutes. What was it like?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: It was absolutely the most powerful moment of court today. Juan Martinez said, "We`re going to look at the clock. And this is the amount of time that it took Travis Alexander to die. This is how long it took him as he suffered as he was dying."

So the jury was staring at Juan Martinez. Juan Martinez was looking at the clock. The entire courtroom was quiet, Jane. The only people you could hear was the sobbing of the sisters. And that was it. It was silent, and you could just hear them quietly crying for two full minutes. And it was so powerful. He didn`t even speak one word in that entire time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutor Juan Martinez had to prove extreme cruelty beyond a reasonable doubt. And many people said, well, look, it`s almost a slam dunk on its face: 29 stab wounds, a slit throat, Travis Alexander shot in the face.

And I would say that Jennifer Willmott, one of the defense attorneys, had probably the toughest job in the world today, cross-examining the medical examiner. What on earth would she say that would try to make this horrific killing sound like it wasn`t extremely cruel? Let`s listen, and then we`ll debate it.


JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: When somebody is fighting or moving around a lot, their heart is going to be pumping faster, won`t it?


WILLMOTT: The faster the heart is pumping, the more rapidly fatal that wound is going to be. Because of the adrenaline, pain doesn`t always register immediately with our bodies. And by focusing on surviving, we`re able to focus on what needs to get done versus necessarily focusing on the immediate pain.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it. What on earth could the defense have done? Starting with prosecutor Stacey Honowitz.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane, they`re defense attorneys; they`re not miracle workers. And quite frankly, they really didn`t have much on this case. I mean, anybody looking at this would say why are we even having this phase? Of course it`s cruel.

And you heard Juan Martinez go detail by detail. Actually, you could picture yourself in that room, watching what was going on. They really didn`t have much. They had to cross-examine him and think of something. Does adrenaline not make you feel pain? It was really a hail Mary for them to try to figure out what was going to stop this juror -- this jury from finding extreme cruelty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Silber for the defense.

BRIAN SILBER, ATTORNEY: Stacey`s absolutely correct. You know, the fact of the matter is, it was a cruel way to kill him. You know, whether you debate back and forth if this was premeditated or not premeditated, she still slit his throat. And I don`t think any normal human being could think of, you know, another way that could be a more painful way to die. I mean, he had to watch himself bleed out for a few seconds.

And I think the jury is finding in this regard was absolutely on point. And there was little that the defense could do, bottom line.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, you have studied every aspect of this case. It would seem to me, looking at Jodi Arias, she really almost had, like, a breakdown in court. She was just crying as prosecutor Juan Martinez describes the horror of her action and turning her face away. What did you feel and see in that room?

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN CORRESPONDENT: We all see different things. You were able to see that. I was able to see what happened after that.

When the verdict came in, Jodi Arias, I feel like she was in command. I feel like she was talking to her attorneys, especially Jennifer Willmott; but then her other attorney joined in, too, orchestrating what comes next.

But her mother -- and I saw you just talk with the members of the public that were right behind her mother. Her mother lingered. Her mother stayed there, wanting Jodi to look at her. I saw that. Jodi didn`t look at her mother. She was too engrossed in talking with her legal attorneys about what comes next. Maybe it`s the only chance that Jodi would talk to them before we get into this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there any -- is there anything that she could possibly say in the mitigation phase that would give her even a sliver of redemption? Could she now come clean and express remorse and acknowledge the horror?

Ii think the reason why there is such passion in this case is that she had never once acknowledged the horror and owned up to the hideousness of her own actions.

We`re going to take a short break. We have so much more on this absolutely momentous day and what happens tomorrow. Stay right there.


TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off every day, sometimes two, three times a day.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER (via phone): Are you serious?

ALEXANDER: There`s been many times when you have been, like miserable and I`ve, like, raped you.

You cannot say I don`t work that booty.

ARIAS: You do know how to work the booty.




ALEXANDER (via phone): You are right, in the bath, it was hot.

ARIAS (via phone): Oh, when we took a bath together? You were amazing. You made me -- seriously, you made me feel like a goddess.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I am here outside court. Ted Rowlands, you have covered so many cases. We`ve covered so many cases together. We covered the Michael Jackson molestation trial together.

Everybody seems to be jumping, essentially, to the conclusion that -- even Jodi Arias`s mother reportedly said this is the beginning of the end. But you`re saying not so fast.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the most difficult decision for this jury, to take another human being`s life. And we even interviewed a gentleman that was on a death case here in Arizona last year. He said it was the most difficult thing he had ever done in his life. They did sentence this individual to death.

He doesn`t think this jury will have even -- he believes it will be more difficult for this jury, because they`ve lived with Jodi Arias for 4 1/2 months. This is someone they may not like, but they know that putting someone you know to death is incredibly heart-wrenching.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that -- that`s interesting. We`re so delighted and honored to have Ashleigh Banfield with us tonight. And again, you have covered so many of these cases, hypothetically saying, yes, give somebody the death penalty is a lot easier than actually doing it yourself but knowing that you will have done that if you make that decision.

Do you think that some are maybe jumping to getting ahead of themselves in terms of there`s still a significant process that has to unfold before she gets sentenced to death by lethal injection, Ashleigh.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You`re both absolutely spot on.

For everyone who`s been following this case on television, it is a far cry from watching the shot that you`re seeing on your monitor to sitting across the room from a real person and hearing her breathing and seeing her sobbing. It doesn`t translate. I can tell you that. It doesn`t translate.

And jurors will tell you that over and over. It`s a very painful decision.

And Jane, these jurors spent and hour 33 deliberating about an hour`s worth of testimony today. So they are very careful. I think that`s fair to say. They`re very careful in how they`ve been looking at the evidence that`s been presented to them.

So tomorrow, they`re going to be getting a lot more. I went over earlier with -- with Ryan what the five aggravating -- rather, what the five statutory mitigating factors were, but there`s a whole host of other mitigating factors that her attorneys and she could put on.

But as I list it to you, Jane, I want you to just sort of do the mental checkmark in your head as to whether her case applies. Whether Jodi Arias applies to any of these factors.

No. 1, did she cooperate with the police? She lied to the police.


BANFIELD: She lied over and over again.


BANFIELD: No. 2, does she have a criminal record? OK, so she`s got a pretty clean background. That`s good for her.

No. 3, did she have a tough family life? She said she had a bit of a tough family life, but the jurors think she`s a liar.

No. 4, does she have family ties? You know what, Jane? That family was there every day in court. That`s going to bode real well for her. They were there, and they were saddened by a lot of this.

No. 5, was it a felony murder? Which means essentially was there less intent on her part? They decided no. They were unanimous that this is a premeditated murder. It wasn`t a felony murder. She meant to do what she did. It was premeditated.

No. 6, does she have a good character? They`re going to have to work real hard to say she was a Girl Guide and sold cookies and volunteered at a hospital or whatever it is they`re going to put out there to show that, prior to this horrible murder, she had good character in her DNA.

No. 7, intelligence. I think we can all agree, Jane Velez-Mitchell, that this is a very clever woman. Cunning, clever, maybe not smart, but definitely, she`s got the intelligence.

No. 8, model prisoner. There`s been a great report that she`s done very well during her incarceration.

No. 9...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She won a singing contest.

BANFIELD: ... leniency. Yes, she won a singing contest. And apart from hiding some pens, et cetera, she hasn`t done any major infractions.

And then No. 10, is she rehabilitatable? I think that`s a really good question for this jury, because they have probably not liked being lied to for four months. And who knows if what she`s going to say tomorrow is going to change that.

And then No. 11, Jane, here`s the big kahuna. It`s part of a statutory one, as well. Remorse and grief. If she`s going to appeal this, she can`t very well come in here tomorrow and say, "I`m so sorry, but I did a premeditated murder and made Travis Alexander suffer in a cruel way." Now can she?

Those are the ones she`s got to work with. You can be the judge of what she can apply and what she can`t.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what I found fascinating today, Ashleigh, is that the defense suddenly pulls the borderline personality card. Which during the trial, I said they should not be arguing against the prosecution`s insistence that she has borderline personality disorder. That means she`s mentally ill. She may not be legally insane to the point that she`s hearing voices and doesn`t know right from wrong. But that could be a mitigator in the jury`s mind. Why are they trying to convince everybody, no, she doesn`t have borderline personality disorder?

Well, today, ta-da, the defense says, yes, you know, you should consider the fact that the prosecutor said she has borderline personality disorder. So they brought that back in.

I have to bring in our expert panel. You know, it strikes me, and I think we have Jordan Rose. This defense has been bungled. I mean, say what you want about Jodi Arias committing some evil, horrific acts. Her defense, I feel, dropped the ball in a lot of ways -- Jordan.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I agree. I agree, Jane. And in fact, today, I just felt like they kind of cashed it in. I mean, they didn`t really try. They didn`t -- they didn`t do anything today.

I think the only way that Jodi Arias does not get death is if Jodi stands up and asks for death. Because this jury has time and time again said, in their questions and in their verdict so far, that they don`t like her, they don`t trust her, and they -- and they don`t want to see this woman go free, certainly. So I think -- I think that`s what`s going to happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side of the break, we`re going to debate with our expert panel, should Jodi Arias speak in her own defense in the mitigation phase or was 18 days on the stand enough? Could she hurt herself even more by opening her mouth and talking, again? That`s on the other side.


MARTINEZ: The last thing he saw before he lapsed into unconsciousness was that defendant, this person here, with that blade coming to his throat and the last thing he felt before he left this earth was pain.




MARTINEZ: As he stands there bleeding in front of that mirror, not only is he seeing himself, which is extreme emotional and mental anguish, he`s able to see her in the back.


MARTINEZ: An individual who stands at a sink and bleeds over to that sink, in your opinion as a medical examiner, and I understand you deal with dead people, are they alive or dead, in your opinion?

HORN: Alive.

MARTINEZ: If they`re standing at that sink and they`re alive, can they see?

HORN: Yes.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m very delighted to have with us one of Travis Alexander, the victim`s, very, very close friends. Dave Hall, I`ve gotten to know Dave over the course of this trial.

Dave, I thought that was one of the most powerful arguments. The idea of the mental anguish of Travis Alexander, staggering from the shower to the sink, and then looking at his own reflection, covered in blood and bleeding as he`s looking at himself in the mirror. What were -- what were your most powerful moments, Dave?

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I think the most powerful moment that I had today was when Juan had the two minutes of silence. You saw when the camera shot on Willmott and Nurmi. It`s almost like they wanted to stand up and object to something. They wanted to scream, like, "Stop the silence. It`s killing me."

I think millions of people all over the world sat there and just felt that. And as we had already heard how he was killed, we were envisioning that. And all you could hear in the courtroom was some slight whimpers and cries from his family. That had to be a dagger for the defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I also thought when prosecutor Juan Martinez was describing Travis Alexander naked and seated in the shower and so vulnerable. Let`s hear what they said about that. That`s when the attack began, according to the prosecution. And then we`ll hear from Dave on the other side.


MARTINEZ: She also made sure that he went in a way that he was nude. When she attacked him, he was in a vulnerable position. He was standing there with water coming down on him. And then he sits down. And as he`s seated there, he`s in a position where he`s easier to attack. That`s extreme mental anguish, to watch the blade come up to him. He can see at that point. He can hear. He can breathe. He can smell.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dave Hall, Jodi Arias`s mother, there was somebody seated behind her. And that person said that he heard her say this is the beginning of the end.

But then we just talked to Ted Rowlands, who said that he`s talked to some observers saying that there`s still a way in this mitigation phase for the jury to avoid giving her the death penalty by lethal injection. What do you think is going to happen?

HALL: I think she`s going to get the death penalty. Keep in mind, these, you know, Monday morning quarterbacks are comparing previous cases that they`ve seen and saying, "Well, I saw this person get off and that person get off." And stuff.

There is nothing out there short of Charles Manson to compare to this type of a murder case. And in 29 stab wounds, a gunshot to the head and slitting his throat while he`s conscious, watching someone who proclaimed to love him do it to him, then there`s no reason to have the death penalty in America.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know you`re very close to the family of Travis Alexander. What do you think they`re experiencing tonight?

HALL: You know, it`s not joy, because it`s not that they`re winning something. But there is a little bit of closure, I think, coming. I think Jodi`s mom put it -- put it well. This is the beginning of the end. This is a step in the right direction, where Jodi can start to atone for the murder of Travis Alexander, and justice can finally be rested.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dave, stay right there. I know you have a lot more to weigh in on.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to break down exactly what`s going to happen in the so-called mitigation phase and what is the jury going to decide? It`s a different set of rules. We`ll explain it to you on the other side. Stay right there.


NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: What impacted me the most was when I thought of Travis Alexander standing over a sink and looking up at the mirror and seeing the blood coming out of his nose and his mouth and seeing Arias behind him in that moment, stabbing him, and he knows, "I`m going to die. I`m going to die."




MARTINEZ: The last thing he felt before he left this earth was pain.

Was he alive when he was stabbed in the heart?

HORN: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And he`s feeling like he`s having a heart attack. Was he alive when he was being stabbed in the back of the head?

HORN: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And bleeding over to that sink. Was he alive when he was being stabbed in the back?

HORN: Yes.

MARTINEZ: That is extreme emotional anguish.

Was he screaming? It hurts when somebody sticks a knife right into your chest.

Suffered enough for two lifetimes. He suffered all the way He suffered all the way until he died.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We are here outside the Maricopa County courthouse. The verdict is in. The jury has decided that the way that Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander was especially cruel moving her one giant step closer to the possibility of getting death by lethal injection.

With me, two well known faces -- they have been trial watchers throughout the ordeal, Jane and Kathy. Kathy, hold up your cane because you are known as cane lady. Prosecutor Juan Martinez signed that and got into a wee bit of trouble but that was just a sideshow for the main case here.

You were in court during today`s proceedings and you were looking at the family of Travis Alexander. Describe what you saw and how it made you feel?

KATHY, TRIAL WATCHER: Well, to begin with, before the verdict, I saw them and they were really sad. Samantha was crying. And it was so emotional. So when the verdict actually came down and we were all sort of stunned for a second, then I looked over and his sisters were crying and smiling and hugging people.

I think it`s been such a hard road for them. This is such a long time coming and I think they feel that justice is getting served. We are not there yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s a process, not an event.

KATHY: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a process that brings up so many mixed emotions because you are talking about the possibility of putting someone else to death. So there is sort of this -- it`s very hard to have just black and white emotions. To be jubilant would certainly be unseemly but there`s a sense of yes, justice has been done for the family that you`ve expressed.

KATHY: Absolutely. You know, this has really got to be unbelievably hard for them, I can`t even imagine. But you know, is justice going to be served? Yes, I believe so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you believe that Jodi Arias, in your opinion, you want her to get the death penalty, you have a justice for Travis necklace there. You feel the death penalty is warranted?

KATHY: I do. What she did was just horrific. There`s no excuse for it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, all of this raises the question of this is the popular sentiment, what is Jodi Arias going to do? What is her defense team going to do in the mitigation phase? Is there anything they can do? Should, for example, Jodi speak again?


JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: He body slammed me on the floor at the foot of his bed. He said don`t act like that hurts. He called me a bitch and kicked me in the ribs. He went to kick me again, I put my hands out and to block his foot and it clipped my hand and hit my finger.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, let`s debate it with our expert panel. Should Jodi Arias speak in her own defense during the mitigation phase?

Beginning with Brian Silber for the defense.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. She has to get up there and reach down into the pit of her soul and tell this jury about how remorseful she feels, assuming that`s the case, you know. Again, we have all this talk about whether the case will come back on appeal. She does not have to change her tune about whether it was premeditated.

But the fact of the matter is, she admits to killing him. And she needs to look at that jury in the eye and let them know how that makes her feel and how utterly destroyed she is. That is her only chance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you realize what you just said? You just said after a trial that`s gone on months and months and months, she needs to show remorse if that is the case. She was on the stand for 18 days Stacey Honowitz --

SILBER: That`s correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was an opportunity for her to express remorse. What did we get? We did not get remorse, Stacey?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yes, the fact of the matter is if I`m prosecuting this case, I`d welcome her to stand-up and talk. I think it`s the dumbest move in the world for the defense. But I welcome it as a prosecutor because nobody believes her. She came out of a first degree murder, premeditated verdict; five minutes later, put on lip gloss, was poised and sat and spoke and didn`t cry, didn`t shed a tear, could care less. If she stands up in front of that jury as a prosecutor, I`m thrilled for her to stand-up there and BS everybody because basically that`s what she would be doing.

SILBER: But the point is she`s got nothing else. What is she going to say, I was a housekeeper somewhere. Her life is otherwise unremarkable. She has nothing to look at this jury and tell them don`t kill me, you know. Other than the argument of her attorneys to say "Look, is death upon death really the answer here?" Is the best thing to snuff out yet another life?

Aside from those arguments, she has got to take a stand.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to interrupt you. I want to interrupt you because we have some exclusive video just in of Jodi Arias arriving back at the Estrella jail -- a video after one of the -- certainly one of the worst days, one of the worst pieces of news in her life, arriving back at the Estrella jail.

And I want to go back to our two HLN legal correspondents and ask you essentially, in terms of Jodi Arias speaking in the mitigation phase, you have some information that there was this a mystery hearing that occurred or apparently it seems almost like she wanted to do other TV interviews like she had some kind of media junket was set up and that maybe her attorneys were arguing with her just showing that she does want to talk, perhaps.

BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know is that the sheriff`s office, after the closed hearing yesterday, issued a media advisory saying there will be no more interviews of Jodi Arias while this judge`s orders saying she can`t do this is in effect and until the judge lifts it. So from that, I concluded, well I know that we -- Jean has put in a request to interview her. So, I mean we have our own request in there. I`m sure others do. So I haven`t seen the list of the sheriff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But my point is, would the judge go out of her way to make that ruling had Jodi not said, hey, I got a lot of press with my local KSAZ interview. I`m going to do "In Session". I`m going to do "48 Hours." I`m going to do -- you know -- "I`m going to do all these other shows."

KARAS: Probably not. The judge`s order to the sheriff`s office, I`m speaking as a lawyer here is proving enforceable. So I do think the sheriff`s department has probably agreed to it and has agreed not to challenge it. So maybe they wanted it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I guess the whole point is we`re trying to figure out would she now speak in her own defense in the mitigation phase in an attempt to save her life? She`s already said "I want to die." She said that to KSAZ, "I want to die."

And now --

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Of course, it`s called the allocution. And it is where the defendant can beg for mercy, plead for mercy, cry for mercy, apologize, be remorseful and, you know, many times you don`t see it with someone who`s been convicted because there`s going to be an appeal. And any admission in this speaking to the court, allocution, could come back to haunt them in an appeal.

I guess we`ll have to wait and see. But remember, this order from the judge, and I agree with Beth, I think likely not enforceable, but you don`t want the jury tainted at this last moment, either.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I guess what I`m saying is imagine the mentality of somebody that has just been convicted of murder one, they give an interview, a 45-minute rambling interview to a TV station saying they want death while their lawyers are scrambling to try to figure out how we`re going to save her life, thereby basically sabotaging her own lawyers.

And then the next thing we hear is a mystery hearing where the judge is like no more TV interviews which to me says there`s a good chance that she wanted to do other TV interviews. I just have to go back to prosecutor Stacey Honowitz you have done so many of these cases. Have you ever heard such a thing of somebody wanting to go on a media tour after they`d been convicted of murder one and are facing the possibility of death?

HONOWITZ: Well, of course not. But we know what her personality is all about. She`s a narcissist. It`s all about her. She speaks to publicity. She wants to be in the spotlight. And like I said earlier, she was convicted and five minutes later sat there poised and gave an interview.

So, you know, this is her personality. This is what she`s all about - - it`s all about her. And so we`re going to have to wait and see what happens.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quickly, Dave Hall. Dave Hall, do you think she wanted to, you knew her, you knew Travis, do you think she wanted to do a whole bunch of TV interviews? Do you think she wants to take the stand and now do a monologue at this phase?

DAVE HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I think Jodi, absolutely is in love with herself and the media attention that she`s getting. And that`s why her attorneys were absolutely furious with her setting up that interview right after the guilty verdict. You know that they did not want that to happen. But, again, she could care less what her attorneys say. It`s all about Jodi getting in front of the camera.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I wonder if that`s one of the reasons why a lot of people said that the defense presentation today seemed lukewarm. It seemed half-hearted. It seemed like they were kind of going through the motions. Is it because they are dealing with a client who has sabotaged their efforts and they`re well, you can`t help somebody who doesn`t want to help themselves.

More on the other side. Stay right there.


MARTINEZ: What was he thinking about? Was he thinking about his dog? Is he thinking about his family? Is he thinking about the grandmother, the one that received the 20 irises from the defendant?




MARTINEZ: He`s got blood coming from his hand and he`s got blood coming from his chest -- blood gushing from everywhere. There`s a mental anguish associated with his blood running down.

HORN: Multiple stab wounds to Mr. Alexander`s upper back.

MARTINEZ: He was also beginning to feel the pain of his heart running out of blood as the blood kept seeping out.

This knife, this woman and this blade coming towards him and it was only death that relieved that pain.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Forensic scientist, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, it`s one thing to say hey it was a very bloody, gory crime scene. It`s another to breakdown the blood and the gore the way prosecutor Juan Martinez did in what many consider a brilliant real outline of the killing.

Give us your analysis of how effective he was. Obviously he was quite effective because he got the answer he wanted from the jury.

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Absolutely. I think Juan Martinez did an extraordinary job of making the jurors actually experience the trauma that Travis Alexander went through from the point where he was in the shower nude getting stabbed multiple times, moving over to the sink, looking at himself bleeding. Knowing fair well that she was behind him, continuing to stab him to the point where he tried to crawl away.

At that point, his throat was slit ear-to-ear, jugular vein and carotid artery opened up bleeding profusely. At that point, presumably he lost consciousness, being dragged back into the bathroom, and then being shot.

Now that`s the prosecution`s scenario. It is backed by scientific and medical evidence. I think there`s a very good chance that when he was shot he was either unconscious or already dead. So, this aggravating situation had to arise from the time he was stabbed to the time his throat was slit. He had to have an awareness, a sense of pain. I think the jurors actually felt it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Kobilinsky, I think it`s fascinating that one could do a dry recitation of the facts or one could paint a picture, tell a story. And that`s what I think is prosecutor Juan Martinez is brilliant; it`s that he tells us a story of the killing.

What on earth is the defense going to do to counter that? Well, guess what they did. They took a page from the prosecution`s case and they said you know what? Now we think maybe Jodi Arias does have borderline personality disorder after all. Listen to this.


KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The state`s own experts tell you about Jodi Arias` mental condition that they believe exists -- that is in essence, a concession that she didn`t know what she was doing that day was causing this pain. And she didn`t know or couldn`t reasonably know that it was happening because she was functioning under this mental defect that Dr. Demarte says she had.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s debate it with our expert legal panel starting with Jordan Rose for the prosecution. Is borderline back? Is the defense for the mitigation stage going to going to say, oh, you know what, even though we argued during the case she did not have borderline personality disorder, now we are going take that and own it because we think it might be a mitigator if she has signs of mental illness.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Yes, you can`t have it both ways Jane. I mean there`s just no compatibility with what they`ve been putting on for the last four months and what they said today. So that makes no sense. And I think, you know, whether we think Jodi should get up or not and whether her defense attorneys think she should get up and speak or not, Jodi is getting up to speak. I mean if we`ve learned one thing about Jodi, it`s that she is incredibly arrogant, incredible manipulative, incredibly sure of her ability to persuade and into self preservation at all costs. So I think she`s standing up, she`s saying what she does. It`s not going to help, these jurors don`t buy it. They`ve already told us that.


SILBER: Look, you know --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian Silber do you think -- you are a defense attorney -- do you think that the defense threw in the towel? Do you think they were walking through it, going through the motions today?

SILBER: Well, this part of their case is very difficult. They don`t have much to say other than make some basic arguments and ask some basic questions. You know, when you are a trial lawyer, it`s not about magic or making things up. You have to work with the evidence. And that doesn`t make a difference whether you are a prosecutor or a defense lawyer. And there are realities of certain cases, where you have a weakness and that just is what it is. You have to eat your peas and move on with your case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well speaking of making things up, some would say the defense made up the pedophilia. And that`s one of the reasons why so many people are so angry and that may have really boomeranged on Jodi Arias at the end of the day.

A short break and then we`re back with more analysis, what is going to happen tomorrow. We are going to break it down for you with the experts. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was larger than life. And this is, you know, not by chance that so many people are here to support him. I love you Travis. I`m wearing hearts and blue for you today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope that we did enough to explain who he was. Maybe that will live on. Maybe people will realize who he really was.




MARTINEZ: It hurts when somebody sticks a knife right into your chest. And the person that knows about and knows enough about that is the defendant. She took one scratch into her wrist. Oh no, not me. That just hurts too much. She gave him no choice and continued to stab him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at this exclusive video just in of Jodi Arias arriving back at the Estrella jail. It looks, according to those who have studied it like she is wearing a waist shackle as well as an ankle shackle. Jean Casarez, what are her new conditions?

CASAREZ: We knew those are part of the conditions, leg shackles, belly shackles -- you can see she is in her jailhouse stripes. She changed here at the courthouse, was there when she just arrived minutes ago back to the Estrella jail. She is going to be in the cell by herself. That is her conditions now out one hour a day when she is not at court and that is to shower and make phone calls. Her meals come to the room and she is all by herself in that cell.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Beth Karas told us the judge has said no more interviews like the one she gave to KSAZ. We all now remember this post verdict interview.


ARIAS: The worst outcome for me would be natural life. I would much rather die sooner than later. Longevity runs in my family and I don`t want to spend the rest of my life in one place. I`m pretty healthy. I don`t smoke and I would probably live a long time so that is not something I`m looking forward to.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s debate it. For Jodi Arias is solitary worse than death? Starting with Stacey Honowitz for the prosecution?

HONOWITZ: Well, I don`t know. I mean the fact of the matter is that she likes to talk, she likes to be amongst people. She likes to show off. She likes to manipulate. She likes to be the star of the show. So I don`t know if you get life, if you get thrown back in the general population she would probably love that. I mean that`s probably what she`s looking because she wants to be in the spot light.

That is why when she says she wants death I think it is a ploy for people to give her life. It`s like reverse psychology on her part.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why don`t we go to Dave Hall? Your thoughts on whether it would be worse for Jodi Arias to have death or life?

HALL: I think that the previous lady is absolutely right that she says I would rather die than be locked up in a cell 23 hours a day for the rest of my life because then when she does get death it is like good you gave me what I wanted anyway, I won. It is a way of her like saying I got what I wanted

Truth is she needs the death penalty. What she did to Travis is absolutely deplorable. If this circumstance does not meet the guidelines for death penalty in America then there is more point in having it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side. Stay right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we look at exclusive video just in of Jodi Arias returning to jail in shackles, Beth Karas why is the burden of proof now on the defense?

KARAS: Well, the defense has to show the existence of this mitigating evidence. They are trying to spare her life. They`re trying to convince the jury she deserves life. So they have a burden, more likely than not they have to show the existence of this mitigating evidence whatever they may put on. A psychologist to talk about her mental state, somebody from the jail to talk about what a good inmate she has been and she`s not likely to be a problem in the future. And she can have a life even behind bars even if she never is a free woman.

So the jury will then, if they find the existence of it, do a weighing test to determine if one outweighs the other -- life or death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well done Beth Karas, explaining that very complex process in under a minute.

That`s it for us.

"NANCY GRACE", up next.