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Penalty Phase: Jodi Arias on Trial

Aired May 21, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Jodi Arias asks the jury for mercy.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: This is the worst mistake of my life. The worst thing I`ve ever done.

PINSKY: She says her life is worth saving. She`ll start a book club, begin a recycling program, teach other inmates sign language and sell survivor tee shirts.

ARIAS: I`ve designed a tee shirt -- this is the tee shirt. Of which 100 percent of the proceeds go to support nonprofit organizations which also assist other victims of domestic violence. Some people may not believe that I am a survivor of domestic violence. They`re entitled to their opinion. I`m supporting this cause, because it`s very, very important to me.

PINSKY: And yet, Jodi never said I`m so sorry.

ARIAS: As I stand here now, I can`t in good conscience ask you to sentence me to death.

PINSKY: Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Good evening.

A lot to get into tonight with my co-host, psychotherapist Robi Ludwig. She`s the author of "Till Death Do Us Part."

Ahead, reaction to Jodi Arias` pleas for mercy.

Juror number eight is back with us exclusively for his thoughts about what the jury is likely thinking now and what he would have thought were he still on the jury.

First, I have to remind everyone the devastation in Oklahoma is still being assessed. I think everyone`s aware a monster tornado tore through a suburb of Oklahoma City.

Twenty-four people known dead, including nine children, two elementary schools are among hundreds of structures destroyed. Apparently, it appears that some of these schools, the tornadoes just lingered over for a while and did what you`re seeing right there on the screen. Unknown numbers are still missing. More than 200 injured. Search crews expect to finish tonight.

The destruction was 17 miles long. The twister was on the ground for 40 minutes. There it is. I mean, the pictures of this thing are just spectacular. The scope of this is staggering.

I mean, you see those are actual footage. And the tornado is lingering. It`s a mile across, remember that. That is way off in the distance. And it is sitting and lingering over schools and homes. It is just unbelievable.

We will update you again later in the show on what is going on in the ground in Oklahoma.

We`re going back to the Arias case first. She stood -- I think everyone is aware of this as well -- she stood before jurors with a stack of notebook papers and told the jury she`d have a lot to contribute. I`m not sure I`m interested in that, but she`d have a lot to contribute if they`d allow her to live, watch.


ARIAS: I didn`t know if I got life, there are many things I can do to affect positive change and contribute in a meaningful way. I`ll share a few examples that I thought of.

My hair was past my waist and I donated it to Locks of Love. That was my third donation to that organization.

If I`m allowed to live in prison, I will continue donating for the rest of my life.

I received many requests from women to teach Spanish or American Sign Language. For a sentence to life, I will live among the general population of women and I`ll be able to share my knowledge of those subjects with them.

If I get permission I`d like to implement a recycling program. Each week, huge loads of waste are hauled off to a landfill. It may even create new jobs for the people there.

I`d like to start a book club or a reading group, something that brings people together in a positive and constructive way so we can share and recommend other good books and stimulate discussions of a higher nature.

I`ve designed a tee shirt. This is the tee shirt, which 100 percent of the proceeds go to support nonprofit organizations which also assist other victims of domestic violence. Some people may not believe that I am a survivor of domestic violence. They`re entitled to their opinion.


PINSKY: And HLN has exclusive video of Jodi Arias arriving back at jail this afternoon. Five armed guards escorting her back into the facility. There she goes.

Oh, got a lot to talk about.

HLN correspondent Beth Karas, where are we tonight?

BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the jury deliberated for about an hour and a half or so, just under that. They will be back at 10:00 local time in the morning. So, 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time tomorrow to resume deliberations.

No word from them that we`re aware of. We didn`t even see the jury leaving, Dr. Drew. They sent them out a different way, some secret way. And by the time we were told they were gone, they were out of the courthouse. At least that`s my understanding from the deputies.

So, tonight, Jodi Arias is conducting interviews. Now, her interviews are scheduled to begin right now. She was given a list of media entities, local and national, print and television who are interested in talking to her. And she went down that list and selected some of them.

And he is going to be doing interviews up until midnight tonight. That would be 3:00 Eastern Time. If necessary, each entity gets about an hour and a half with her.

And she has asked the jail to get her makeup. And I spoke with the public information officer and she said they did indeed get her makeup because she insists on makeup for her interview.

So, this is a woman who has never shied away from the camera. I was sort of giving her the benefit of the doubt with her allocution statement earlier today, thinking, OK, she`s made a case for it. But she can`t wait to get in front of those television cameras.

She`s got to be her lawyers` worst nightmare. She can`t be controlled.

PINSKY: Wow. Thank you so much, Beth. That`s a stunning part of this story.

Again, Jodi never ceases to amaze and surprise, not in good ways.

Joining us, attorney and Sirius XM radio host Janine Hutt, attorney Mark Eiglarsh with, Janine Driver, human lie detector and of "You Can`t Lie to Me", and Florida supervising prosecutor Stacy Honowitz.

All right. Mark, you actually sent me an e-mail telling me you wanted to talk first. You`re busting out with information.

I`ve got questions for all of you. Sorry, Jenny.

I -- Mark, let`s go.

MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: I yelled at the screen so many times today with my wife.


EIGLARSH: She was going through a red hair phase. Who gives a crap? I mine, I couldn`t believe that`s ha she was telling these jurors.

I found her extremely insincere, unbelievably insensitive, cunning and manipulating. That being said, I think the defense did a decent job putting on enough reasons where if they wanted to the spare her life they could. She went through a list of reasons why somehow she would be a benefit to the prisoners.

The only thing she left out, though, is that if any of them suffer from allergies, she will say, God bless you in both sign language and Spanish and English to them all. I find her as real as Zanny the nanny.

PINSKY: But, Mark -- oh, interesting.

But, Mark, I was surprised. I`m surprised you`re a defense attorney. You`re accustomed to defending not so some guilty people. Don`t you have any compassion for Jodi?

EIGLARSH: I do have compassion. I`m not on that jury. Those jurors have listened to her. They know how manipulative she is. And if they want her hair for a charity or they think somehow she`s going to turn around some illiterate recidivism type of person in there --

PINSKY: Got you.

EIGLARSH: -- then maybe that will tip the scale.

PINSKY: Jenny, I`m not sure I want her working with anybody inside of prison.

HUTT: No. Yes, I don`t want her around anybody. First of all, I`m surprised she didn`t start her allocution with I`d like to thank the Academy.

I mean, the sit the whole day -- the whole time tweeting. It was like a sporting event. Everything she said, it was all about who Jodi is. She`s a teacher. She`s an actress. She`s an environmentalist.

I learned so many things about her. She loves spiders. She`s the worse.

Oh, my -- there`s not a redeeming thing that she said. Not one ounce of contrition. Nothing. There was a lot of semantics, dancing around being sorry.

But she wasn`t really sorry. She is vile, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Jenny -- do we have that footage? There was an apology deeply hidden in what she said.

HUTT: Sort of.

PINSKY: Sort of.

I`m going to play it in the behavior bureau in the B block. I`ll let you see that there.

Stacy, what are your thoughts?

STACY HONOWITZ, SUPERVISING PROSECUTOR: Well, she`s extremely disingenuous. And I think what everyone has to remember is this is a girl who is so manipulative. She`s used to talking her way in and out of everything. If you remember the taped statement when is she asked about the prosecutor, she wanted to know who it was. I guess she thought she could call and talk him out of prosecuting her.

Remember, she was the American idol in jail. She got everyone to fall in love with her. This is what she`s used to doing. And she thought she could talk her way out of a death sentence.

And when she stood up there and said all these things, she wants to be back in general population because the girls loved her. She doesn`t want to be alone. She loves the publicity. That`s evidenced by the interviews she`s giving tonight.

So, this girl never wants to be out of the spotlight. She couldn`t say anything redeeming in front of this jury. Nothing that would make you think her life should be spared based on what she did in her action.

PINSKY: Robi, I`m not sure the jurors are going to want her to have a satisfying, gratifying life of service. That`s not exactly what they would have in mind for her if they were to save her life, do you agree?

ROBI LUDWIG, CO-HOST: I do agree. And she`s so grandiose, me, me, me. I`m so wonderful. You can see how she loves the limelight, how it`s so validating for her.

So, Jodi has really found a new life for herself, where she can be in front of the cameras and talk about how fabulous she is. And I think that`s why there`s such a Jodi backlash and why people hate her. She doesn`t see herself realistically in the way other people view her.

PINSKY: Janine, take me home.

JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: I`m praying for all of people who get hair from Locks of Love that they don`t get Jodi Arias` hair.

My mom has breast cancer. She`s bald and she just ordered a wig. And I`m like, the first thing I did was tweeted m mother. Mom, tell me you didn`t get hair from Locks of Love.

I mean, we`re already (INAUDIBLE), and Jodi says she`s all about the power of positivity and she`s sending out her murderous hair for people who are fighting who are fighting for their lives. I was disgusted today. I still feel bad for her parents, but, hey, they didn`t take the stand on her behalf or speak up on her behalf for a reason.

PINSKY: I feel bad for her parents. I feel bad for her. It`s a human being.

I`m going to throw that little stick of dynamite in there. I feel way worse for Steve and Samantha. Trust me, I do.

HUTT: Wait, hold on.

PINSKY: Jenny, I`m going to join you in the hate crowd. Just by tossing a polemic out there.

Next, what Jodi says she`ll miss most in the prison. Behavior bureau weighs in.

And later, he was on the jury when she took the stand. And he`s back with us today. Juror number eight exclusive, after this.



ARIAS: I`ve met these girls only through a thick pane of glass. They get along, but they`ve always known each other. I won`t be at my sister`s wedding when she ties the knot next year. I won`t be her wedding photographer like we had always talked about.

The boy I grew up with became a family man. He and his wife married in 2010. I wasn`t there to celebrate with them, and I wasn`t there to take their pictures.

I`m not going to have children of my own. I`m not going to become a mother, because of my own terrible choices.

I`ll never create another oil painting, but these are some of my drawings.

My family and I have a lot of memories, especially like this at Christmas. We won`t be creating anymore of (INAUDIBLE). This is how I used to spend the holidays with my family.

From now on, this is how my family is going to spend the holidays with me.


PINSKY: Time for the behavior bureau. Back with my co-host, Robi Ludwig.

Robi, the easy comeback there as well, what about Travis and his family. They`ve lost as much or more.

And I`ve got a tweet from what I said during the last segment. This is from (INAUDIBLE), Dr. Drew, you need time off and away from this trial. You just said you feel sorry for Jodi. OMG, take a mini vacation. It`s needed.

Kat, you have a point, but for the sake of conversation I may throw a little dust in there tonight on Jodi`s behalf just to see if we can shake this up, to look at it from all the potential angles.

On the panel with Robi and myself, human lie detector Janine Driver, psychologist Wendy Walsh, author of "30-Day Love Detox," and Danine Manette, criminal investigator and author of ultimate betrayal.

Janine, do you believe that she suddenly want does live? Why that turn-a-bout?

DRIVER: I think it`s -- you remember the Brer Rabbit? I don`t know if you remember, the little kids talk about Brer Rabbit. And Bret Rabbit, he gets caught by the fox. And the fox goes, I`m going to boil you in soup. And he goes, you boil me in soup and eat me up. Just don`t throw me in the briar patch. And he gets, well, that`s too much work, I think I`ll bake you in the oven.

And briar rabbit goes, go ahead, bake in the oven and eat me up. Just don`t throw me in the briar patch.

And, ultimately, what does the fox do? Throws Brer Rabbit in the patch and rabbit begins laughing and gets away.

PINSKY: I don`t know. I don`t know if the jury`s going to fall for that.

Wendy, the one thing we did see from our young lady at the podium, Jodi, is extreme self-focus and narcissism. In fact, I want to play a tape for you right now and have you react to it of what she -- her version of an apology. It`s sort of really to me it was the sentinel expression of what`s going on with Jodi.

Watch this.


ARIAS: When I took the stand, I was obligated to answer the questions posed to me. And if you`ll remember, many times I was quick to defend him in the same breath. I loved Travis, and I looked up to him. At one point, he was the world to me.

This is the worst mistake of my life. It`s the worst thing I`ve ever done. It`s the worst thing I ever could have soon myself doing. In fact, I couldn`t have seen myself doing it.

Before that day, I wouldn`t even want to harm a spider. To this day, I can hardly believe that I was capable of such violence, but I know that I was.

And for that, I`m going to be sorry for the rest of my life. Probably longer.


PINSKY: Wendy, there it was at the end. I think that was her version of an apology. I`m going to feel sorry. She didn`t say I am sorry. I`m going to feel sorry of the rest of my life, right?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I put it on my calendar. I`m going to feel sorry next week.

The point is she`s feeling sorry for herself. She didn`t imagine that she could do this to herself and ruin her life this way.

She`s not sorry to his parents. She`s not sorry to her family whose life is ruined as well and Travis` family of course. But, Dr. Drew, you said something earlier about this compassion you feel for her.

And actually, when I see this, I feel compassion too because my heart breaks that she has to go through life feeling nothing.

PINSKY: She`s sick.

WALSH: It`s like she`s feeling nothing.

PINSKY: She`s sick. She`s sick.

WALSH: Do we put a sick person like this to the chair? Do they really -- I mean, it`s not the chair, whatever it is, injection.

PINSKY: She did horrible stuff. She should have just got treatment before when she was just a sick person. Now, she`s a criminal

Danine, you`re nodding your head kind of vigorously. What are your thoughts?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I feel nothing for her. This is the most self-serving narcissistic load of bull I have ever seen.

This whole thing about I never hurt a spider before now. Didn`t she beat up a dog? I think she`s the one that beat up a dog.

And, I mean, that`s to me, that`s the equivalent of the Boston marathon bombers, they never lit a match before.

I mean, sometimes, when you do something, you go all out in the end. So, I feel nothing for her.

I feel for Travis` family. I want her to go away.

PINSKY: Janine, I feel for Travis` family deeply. I just, I don`t mistake what I`m saying for that at all.

But it`s just, there is a place for mercy, isn`t there, Janine? Somewhere?

MANETTE: I can`t find it. I`m sorry.

PINSKY: I got you. Janine?

DRIVER: I think she had a little confession in that statement you just played. She said it`s the worse thing I could imagine doing. In statement analysis we usually say the truth. And the truth sneaks out without us realizing it.

And I think that was her admission that yes, this had been planned, way before it even happened, that this was pre-meditated murder. So when I heard that, I said ah-ha, that is leakage, and truthful leakage about statement analysis. She just told me, it was planned. It was the worst thing she can imagine.

She said to herself, what can I do to cause him pain? And she went through with it.

PINSKY: So, she literally had imagined it. It was the worst thing, and she carried it out, right? Very interesting.

PINSKY: Robi, you see where I`m going with this?


PINSKY: It`s very complicated.


PINSKY: It`s a sick person that did horrible things. I want justice for that family, but am I OK that I feel ambivalent about this. Putting somebody to death is a big deal, and the pitchforks are all out right now and everyone wants to act out on her.

LUDWIG: Because I think the bottom line is Jodi really did love Travis, but she felt that he deserved to be murdered because he wasn`t loyal to her, or he couldn`t be in a relationship with her. So the bottom line is she really doesn`t feel badly because she feels Travis deserved it.

On the other hand, it is human life, and the fact that somebody could go so wrong, it`s very unfortunate. And if you`re in the helping field, you want to see people make right choices and develop their own potential.

PINSKY: Yes, although I just threw up in my mouth a little bit when you said that because I really -- the behavior bureau has taken right where it needs to go.

I think you`re right. I think still ultimately she believes he had it coming. And that is disgusting.

Wendy, what are your thoughts?

WALSH: I agree. I`m not saying by any means she should ever be let out. I think she is a threat to society or her next boyfriend and my heart breaks for Travis` family. My heart breaks for Travis most of all, of course, and even her family.

But in that soup of compassion, I also look at this human being who literally has gone through her whole life with absolutely no feeling. And do I want to do a revenge killing on her? Not my tax dollars, sorry.

PINSKY: And, by the way, the flatness, the lack of expression on her face that we all react to is a symptom of exactly what Wendy is describing. She is not reacting emotionally normally. And it`s a disorder.

Now we got a bunch of tweets for the behavior bureau. We asked for them at the hashtag -- what is the address? #behaviorbureau.

Here`s a tweet from @JoshPorat. Here it comes, put it up there.

If Jodi Arias wants death, why does she continue to bash Travis rather than apologize to him with her last words? #behaviorbureau.

And then, Wendy, you know, you would think that she, she did -- control room, don`t we have sort of an analysis in there of something of the amount of time she spent talking about herself?

OK, we`re going to put it up there in just a second.

But she didn`t throw herself on the mercy of anybody. She didn`t say I feel -- I`m so, I`m so sorry. I really, you know, this is a horrible thing.

We actually broke down Jodi`s comments. She spent the 19 minutes and two seconds in front of the jury. Here are the approximate ways she spent that time. Four minutes and five seconds, talking about the pain she caused Travis` family. A minute 23 talking about the skeletons in Travis` closet, never meant to go public with them, again, bashing Travis even in her apology, her allocution here.

The other 13 minutes and 34 seconds was spent talking about, guess who? Jodi, Danine.

MANETTE: You know, I don`t think she ever wants death. I think this is so much drama. This is that whole give me liberty or give me death.

I think she`s spent this whole time gaming everybody and putting on this show. And when she realized the gig was up and it wasn`t working, now, all of a sudden, she`s coming out and saying, OK, well, actually, I want to sell these tee shirts and I think this hair is real cool.

But it all comes down to the image of herself. She doesn`t want to be out of the limelight.

PINSKY: And she`s doing interviews right now, Robi. As we speak, she is talking to all the networks. It`s incredible.

Here`s my thing, I don`t I would -- if I were on the jury, I would not want her working with anybody in the penitentiary, though, it`s a little weird, because you`re supposed to make penance. It`s a penitentiary. You`re supposed to be penite. That sort of being penite.

But I don`t really want her around other people. And I don`t want her having a satisfying life of service. I don`t really want that for her.

Do you think the jurors feel the same way, Robi?

LUDWIG: Yes, I think the jurors feel like why should she have the potential to do something quote-unquote good when Travis who really had this talent and skill to motivate people, he doesn`t have that opportunity any more.

And it`s a big question. What is the appropriate punishment? Is it death or keeping her safe and not allowing her to have a life of freedom?

The question is, if she continues do interviews and rebrand herself as this glamorous inmate, you know, that`s a reward in some way.

PINSKY: That`s disgusting.

DRIVER: Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Janine, I`m sorry. I got to go out, though.

I want to remind people. If they have a question for the behavior bureau, tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau, all one word.

Next, he was a part of the jury on this case, what does he think of Jodi`s pleas for mercy? Juror #8 joins us exclusively.

And later, one of Jodi`s close friends, does he think Jodi`s life is worth saving?

Back after this.



DAN GIBB, JUROR #8 (via telephone): She spent too much time on the stand and probably the defense`s strategy was for us to, you know, get to know Jodi personally, and, and that way it would be that much more difficult to find her guilty and potentially put her to death, but I think it lost some of its effect over time.

I tried my best to keep an open mind, as long as I could. And I feel that I did that.


PINSKY: That was juror number eight when he was on our program last week. Back with my co-host Robi Ludwig.

And a Twitter, Drew, are you saying you feel sorry for Jodi in hopes of getting an interview? #behaviorbureau.

No. No, @lookinggood and wilm, no, no. I would talk to her, but that`s not my purpose in doing so. Touche, though, by the way.

OK. Joining us, Jenny Hutt, Mark Eiglarsh, Wendy Walsh, and Janine Driver. We have juror number eight, Dan Gibb, on the phone.

Dan, let`s go right to you. What are your thoughts about Jodi today?

GIBB (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew. Well, I thought it was, you know, like I saw on the TV there, kind of pathetic, the whole thing. I was just, more words coming out of her mouth, really nothing that I guess surprised me too much, considering --

PINSKY: Did anything stand out for you?

GIBB: Yes, there were, I mean, it was kind of a, you know, I guess it went from a circus to a freak show. But I guess the tee shirt, you know, when she held that tee shirt up and it said survivor, it kind of made me think that -- you know, well, she`s a survivor in this whole thing.

PINSKY: She`s the one who survives and Travis doesn`t get to.

GIBB: Right. Right.

PINSKY: What -- do you think that anything she said would have evoked empathy from you or from any of the other jurors?

GIBB: Well, I think we were -- when I say we, I guess I`m thinking of me and the other jurors, but I think, you know, I would have liked to see her -- and I don`t know if she was allowed to, you know, address directly the Alexander Family.


GIBB: And, you know, I would have liked to just see her apologize for what she did and take responsibility.

PINSKY: I completely agree with you. That was the part, again, I knew it would be unsatisfying somehow. And that was what was unsatisfying. I wanted to see her beg for forgiveness from these people who didn`t have that.

WALSH: And Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Wendy, go ahead.

WALSH: Yes. Did -- would her attorneys not have told her very clearly that that`s what she needs to do?

PINSKY: Mark, tell us.

MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Well, of course. There`s a reason why they`ve moved to withdraw numerous times. She doesn`t want to help them help her. She does things the way she wants to do them. And that`s incredibly frustrating for the defense. I do have a question for Dan, though, if I could.

PINSKY: Please.

EIGLARSH: Dan, from how to save the life of a defendant playbook 101right in there is come up with ways that you could help other inmates. My question to you is, first, do you think your former fellow jurors found that to be believable? And then, secondly, do you think they`ll give that much weight next to the fact that this was extremely atrocious, cruel, and heinous what she did?

GIBB: Well, you know, I kind of like to see her business plan on the recycling for the prison, but --


PINSKY: It`s silly, but yes, when you think about it. Right.

GIBB: It was all just kind of silly.


GIBB: No, I don`t -- you know, none of that carried really any weight as far as I`m concerned considering, you know, what she did.

PINSKY: All right. We`re going to take a quick break again. The panel stays with me. Dan Gibb, juror number eight, stays with me as well. We`re going to talk about how he feels about Travis` family and having been let go from the juror how he feels now.

And later one of Travis` friends is here. He knew he didn`t like Jodi years ago. See what he says now. Back after this.



GIBB: I feel real bad for Travis` family that, you know, the defense just, you know, dragged him through the mud like they did. I can`t even begin to imagine what they`ve gone through and, you know, this isn`t by any means going to be the end of this. So, this is going to continue for them, and I feel real bad for them. And I feel, I feel like, you know, I kind of let them down.


PINSKY: Yes, but Dan, it`s not you that let them down. Whether it`s death penalty or not, this thing is not over for that family. I have a Twitter -- you guys are going nuts on Twitter, by the way. In fact, you motivated me to invite all of my guests tonight. I`m going to have you each on my podcast and talking more detail about this, about this case.

Each of you will do like an hour with each of you guys, because it`s just lit up on Twitter. And I thought maybe the podcast really wanted to hear our thoughts as well. Here`s Baile Meinyk (ph). I don`t know if I pronounce that name correctly. "Dr. Drew, so much for going quietly into the night with national TV interviews for the next how many hours?"

Yes, four and half to six hours of national television. Yes, she wanted to go quietly into the night. Just what are you going to do? OK. We are joined, Robi and I, by Jenny Hutt, Mark Eiglarsh, Wendy Walsh, and Janine Driver. Dan Gibb who was juror number eight in the Jodi Arias murder trial is here.

So, Dan, do you still feel as though you`ve let the family down in some way? Are you feeling better about that?

GIBB: Well, I feel better. You know, I`ve been getting a lot of support. I did hear from Sky Hughes who, you know, of course has talked with the family. And she did indicate to me that they don`t feel that I`ve left them down. So, that means a lot.

PINSKY: Jenny, I keep seeing you vigorously nodding and shaking your head. You want to ask Dan something?

JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes. I do. I just want to know. As a juror, did you feel like Wilmot and Nurmi were fond of Jodi or could you tell that they weren`t fond of Jodi?

GIBB: Well, it doesn`t seem like they are.


GIBB: It doesn`t appear like they are, anyway.

HUTT: Right.

GIBB: You know, I`ve been watching, you know, over the last several days and they just, they just seem, they just seem to don`t have any -- they don`t have any compassion or for her or anything, you know, I`m seeing that on their face.

PINSKY: Am I flawed in having some compassion for this woman? Mind you, I look at the picture of Samantha and Steve and I just die. But as a human being, I have compassion for her. Did you feel that as well?

HUTT: I don`t think you`re having compassion for her.

PINSKY: Well, I want to know if Dan thinks I`m nuts --

GIBB: No, you`re not nuts. You know, these jurors have a difficult decision, obviously, and I -- you know, we all filled out that questionnaire at the beginning of the -- you know, when we went through jury selection, and we, we answered it honestly as far as could we impose the death penalty, but when it comes down to it, you never really know, you know? Now, they`re in that position. And, you know, it`s hard. It`s hard to --

JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: I have a question for Dan.

GIBB: -- impose that ultimate penalty.

PINSKY: You guys all have question, Janine, Mark, then Jenny -- Janine.

DRIVER: Well, first of all, I do have a question for Dan, but I want to say, for locks of love, I`ve been getting tweets here. They really need hair from really good people.

PINSKY: Yes. They --


PINSKY: Let`s not diminish them at all. We love them.

DRIVER: -- helping children. So, if you have 10 inches of hair, I`d give mine if it wasn`t bleached and totally fake, but please help lots of - -

GIBB: There you go. Are they looking for blonde or brunet?


PINSKY: Well, Jodi can give either.


PINSKY: Go ahead. Mark --

DRIVER: I was in court the last day that Jodi was on the stand, and I saw you taking tons of notes. When you submitted a question into the box, what`s the question that was like your-must-know question? And did it get answered in court? Because you were really attentive in the trial.

GIBB: Yes, I was.


GIBB: I can`t really honestly think of one particular question that, you know, that I threw in there. You know, off the top of my head. I really can`t.


GIBB: Honestly.

PINSKY: It`s OK. Mark, you guys keep your questions short because I have less than a minute. I let you both guys (ph) in. Mark, go.

EIGLARSH: Got it. Dan, assume that they find that she should live, what point do you think today that she or the defense made most resonated with this jury?

GIBB: I think it was, gee, for me, I guess it was the, you know, the kind of, I don`t know, sarcastic, I`d say or maybe that`s not the right word, remark she made about domestic violence and, you know, some people may, you know, not believe that she was a victim of domestic violence. And that just wasn`t, that just wasn`t helpful for her case.

PINSKY: Right. In a bad way. Jenny, go.

GIBB: Yes.

HUTT: Yes. Dr. Drew, I just want to clarify for you. I think, and maybe I`m projecting, but I don`t think this is really compassion for Jodi that you have. I think it`s for the whole set of circumstances. The whole thing --

PINSKY: It`s just so sad. I have compassion for the jurors trying to -- poor Dan, and the jurors trying to make a death sentence here. It`s unbelievably sad situation. Granted, all caused by Jodi Arias. But it was the alchemy that lit this thing on fire. And please, everybody, get help if you have mental health symptoms, for God sake. Please, please.

GIBB: Can I just tell Mark, that my wife, she told me when I got home from work today, that she was yelling at the TV also.

PINSKY: Yes. I`m sure a lot of people were. And Dan --

EIGLARSH: Join the club.

PINSKY: Yes. We appreciate your thoughtfulness and your willingness to come and share your thoughts with us here as well. Just -- whatever we can do to support you, you know we`re here.

GIBB: Thank you. I appreciate that.

PINSKY: Thank you to the panel.

Next up, a friend of Travis` joins us. Is life behind bars good enough as far as he`s concerned for Jodi?

And later, my jury was sitting with Travis` family in court today. They will tell us how they reacted to Jodi`s helofusion (ph).



JODI ARIAS, DEFENDANT: I didn`t want to drag out Travis` skeletons or mine and explain my experiences with him. I didn`t want to unveil all those ugly text messages and e-mails and that awful tape. All these things which now stands to the public in permanent (ph) testimonies of the darker aspects of our relationship.


PINSKY: Welcome back. I`m with my co-host, psychotherapist, Robi Ludwig. Still with us, Jenny Hutt and Mark Eiglarsh. And Mark, before I introduce my guest, I want to say happy birthday to you, my friend. When we`re off verdict watch and hurricane watch, we have a celebration planned for you. That`ll be down the line, I promise, but happy birthday, my friend. All right.

EIGLARSH: Thank you. I didn`t get my gift, which would have been Jodi apologizing sincerely to the family.

PINSKY: Yes. I want you -- everybody on my podcast to, we`re going to get into this in great, great detail, long form. Joining us, one of Travis Alexander` best friends, Mike Bertot. Mike, Jodi says she didn`t want to drag out all those ugly e-mails and texts, and yet, she did.

MIKE BERTOT, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: Yes. That`s classic Jodi, though. Do everything that she can to, you know, promote herself and make herself look better. So, it`s -- it wasn`t a surprise.

PINSKY: And you`ve seen her behave like that all the way along. In fact, my understanding is -- my producers told me that you had a bad feeling about her right from the start.

BERTOT: Absolutely. A lot of people did. Most of us were just cordial to her when we were around Travis and out of respect for Travis. But from the time I met her, she was just one of those people that we couldn`t put our finger on what it was, but there was just something off about her the whole time. There`s just some creepy vibe, something not normal about Jodi.

PINSKY: Now, you`ve provided us with some never before seen photos of Travis, the first is apparently at a convention that you and Travis attended in Oklahoma City. There you are with Chris Hughes and Travis and an upcoming (ph) figure here. And then, the picture that really caught my attention was this next one. Put this one up here.

Look up there where we`ve put that upper left hand corner. Jodi always lurking in these pictures and watching Travis in kind of a spooky way. Explain that.

BERTOT: Well, that whole weekend, it was nice in the beginning. The day before that picture was taken, I actually had lunge with Travis and Jodi. And for the first time in a while, it seemed like they were just friends. And after that, she was around, but she wasn`t clinging to Travis. She wasn`t as close as she had been in other times I`d been around her.

So, it was kind of nice. It seemed like she was just maybe gotten over it finally. And they were just friends. It wasn`t until after getting home from that convention and looking at that picture that I realized, you know, that even though she wasn`t as close, she was always in the background somewhere. And the fact that she smiled for a picture that wasn`t even of her, I mean, it just kind of -- it sent chills down my spine when I noticed that after the fact.

PINSKY: Jenny, you had a question for Mike?

HUTT: No, I`m just yet again so grossed out. She was photo bombing before it was the thing to do.

PINSKY: She really was. And I --

HUTT: She`s a creep.


PINSKY: Go ahead, Robi, please.

LUDWIG: -- wondering, you know, did Travis ever talk about what he liked about Jodi or that he even liked her? I mean, was there a sense that he was connected to her at some point or that she was somebody who just stalked him and he kind of gave in to, you know, those occasional dates.

PINSKY: If I could follow that, Robi, Mike witnessed, I heard, some real intense fights between them, him trying to get rid of her ten months before she killed him.


BERTOT: Yes. There was an experience. We were on a trip together and Travis was in the truck with me. And Jodi had started calling him. And it was the first time that I had actually learned that she had moved to Mesa. And they were arguing about that. And the entire conversation was just, you know, Travis asking, you know, "Why did you move there? You have no reason to be there. We`re not together. We`re not going to be together."

And then, you know, it went on that way for hours. And I asked him about it. And, you know, he let me know some of the details about her moving there. And I just warned him. I said, you know, that`s not normal behavior. That`s creepy, stalker behavior right there. Just watch your back, really.

PINSKY: Little did you know.

BERTOT: And then she testifies in court that Travis paid for her to move there. When I heard that, I just turned my stomach, because it was just one of those lies that, you know, I had experienced the other side of it, and I knew it absolutely was not the truth.

PINSKY: Thank you, Mike. Thank you, panel. Have to take a break. Be right back with the jury.


PINSKY: It is time for Dr. Drew`s jurors. Katie Wick and Stacey Fairrington are back with us. They`re both in the courtroom today and heard Jodi`s remarks in person. Katie, what did you see on the juror`s faces during Jodi`s speech?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": They looked as if it was falling on deaf ears, Dr. Drew. I saw a lot of them with crossed -- folded arms. Quite the contrast when Juan Martinez was up, I saw a few of the jurors kind of -- I wish Janine was still on because I would ask her what this meant, kind of rubbing their necks a little bit, sort of self-soothing, I guess, is the word.

But I`ll tell you what, it was interesting, because Jodi`s hands were shaking like crazy. And I thought, whoa, this is the first time I`ve actually seen any emotion. But the problem was what was happening physically with her wasn`t matching her emotions as she spoke. It was as if it was two different people. So, I didn`t know what to make of it.

PINSKY: Well, as usual, as we`ve been talking, Robi, you know, I`ve been talking for quite some time, she disconnected. Her body may be having one reaction and her mind`s having another.

LUDWIG: And I wonder if that contributed in part to the murder, that she`s so unaware of her feelings until it`s too late. And then, she`s impulsive and out of control. It`s interesting to see the disconnect.

PINSKY: Interesting observation, Katie. Stacey, you were seated behind Travis` family. You guys have limited time here. What was the reaction of the family?

STACEY FAIRRINGTON, DR. DREW "JUROR": You know, I mean, Jodi kind of got up and did her thing, but it was really when Juan Martinez got up there that there was, you know, he showed a picture of Travis, and then, he also showed some of the, you know, horrific crime scene photos. And that was that moment that he was really trying to pull that jury in to really show how difficult this is for everybody, what a terrible crime she committed against him, and it`s affecting that entire front row of that family.

We`ve got some other family sitting right behind them, but it really affects all those generations, the aunts, the cousins, you know, all of them, Steven talked about his daughter.

PINSKY: Right. And then, the generations coming up. These people carry this in them. It`s going to be really rough for that family. Thank you, ladies.

WICK: And Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Katie, I`ve got to go --


PINSKY: I want to try to throw to our friends at "After" -- no we`re not going to. We don`t have it right now. OK. Last call is next. We`re going to give you an Oklahoma City storm update. Be back after this.


PINSKY: It is time for the last call. Hours are ticking by in Oklahoma City area, yet, there is hope that survivors of yesterday`s tornado may still be found. Crews are working board by board in their search. They will likely wrap up the searches tonight. Twenty-seven people confirmed dead, including several children.

Of course, there`ve been stories of heroism and horror. Many have emerged there. I watched Anderson Cooper interviewing people throughout his show today. And, boy, you couldn`t help but shed a tear for some of these stories. Some of them were really inspiring and some of them were just catastrophic.

The visuals which just speak of the scope of the damage. There are so many -- there it is. This thing, the power of this thing is phenomenal. Miles were ravaged by this enormous which rated E-5, the most powerful on the scale for tornadoes. And look at this picture, just lingering, where it`s lingering there is over the school.

Robi, again, with all of these kinds of tragedies, what you see is the best in people many times. And there`s just one story -- inspiration that caught my attention was how quickly people from the neighborhood whose homes have been destroyed ran into the school that we all have seen pictures of to help the kids and the teachers out. Incredible.

If you`d like to help, go to You can type the word "impact your world," those three words, rather, in the search box.

Oh, Robi, it`s been an interesting day. Do you have any final thoughts for us to wrap us up with Jodi? What do you think we`re going to hear tomorrow?

LUDWIG: Oh, gosh. You know, I think we`re going to hear the impact of Jodi doing these interviews. I mean, when you`re feeling guilty, you`re not asking for makeup before TV interview and deciding -- I mean, which interviews you want to do. So, it doesn`t speak well of her. It`s going to be really interesting to see what the jury decides. At this point, it`s a big question mark.

PINSKY: It`s going to be hard to put someone to death, but boy, if this were a case where that would likely happen, if you add up the score, I think we may see --

LUDWIG: She`s very provocative.

PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. I want you all to stay with us right now, because "HLN After Dark" is beginning right now. Stay with us.