Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Florida Shooting Linked to Boston; IRS Official Pleads the Fifth; Arias Pleads for Her Life; Lessons Learned from Joplin.

Aired May 22, 2013 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The agent, the FBI agent who was involved, also sustained injuries. Nonlife-threatening, we're told. The incident is now under review. The FBI is not commenting further, but this does open a whole host of other questions with regard to who this person down in Florida was, and also what his connection to the bombers was, and all of the different crimes that the two bombers suspected of having committed in the Boston area. Not just the bombing, don't forget, there was also the MIT officer murdered. There was a shoot-out with police. And there was a murder, a triple homicide, back two years ago, that has also been reopened. And a lot of investigative questions about that triple homicide are now reopened because of the connection of the Tsarnaev brothers. A lot of questions still. But this amazing development.

Our national correspondent, Susan Candiotti, is live on this story. She's been working her sources.

Susan, what are you hearing about the connections that are being made? And just what was being investigated when it took them down to Florida to this now dead suspect?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ashleigh, my sources telling me they've been taking a look at this particular man in Florida for at least now a month after the bombing, that investigative leads led them to him, because they were told, the FBI, that he was friends with the Tsarnaev brothers, both Tamerlan and Dzhokhar. And that's what made them take a closer look, to look for any possible connections. And they're trying to dig into that now, to see, in particular, what that connection might be.

That led them to Florida. That led them to the Massachusetts state police questioning this man on more than one occasion, according to my sources. And something went wrong late last night. There was, as publicly being described by the FBI, a violent confrontation. And there was a shooting. And the FBI agent fatally shot this man, according to my law enforcement official source, in self-defense. The agent himself was also injured, but as you said doesn't have life- threatening injuries. Right now, they've got a review team that's taking a look at that shooting itself.

But here's what we know about this man in Florida, not only was he friends, but he was also from Chechnya, just as the Tsarnaev brothers were. We know, according to my source, that he was living in the United States legally. That, at one time, he was living in Boston. And that he had been a legal resident here since around 2008. Now, as to what the particular link might have been that they were interested in, if it went beyond that, we don't know. But I'm told that they are looking very closely at some things that have not been described to me just yet -- Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: And, Susan, I think you hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of crimes right now that a lot of different investigative bodies are looking at in connection with the Tsarnaev brothers. I just mentioned the bombing, the aftermath of the bombing, the shoot- outs, the MIT murder, and then all of a sudden that big surprise reopening, or relook at that triple-homicide indicate in Waltham, Massachusetts. And when I hear that there were state police from Massachusetts down in Florida joining the FBI in the investigation, it makes me wonder if they are looking at a broader spectrum of crimes, and this connection to the Florida suspect than just the bombing itself. But they're really being tight-lipped on that?

CANDIOTTI: Yeah, it's hard to say right now, but those are all the things, of course, that you have to ask questions about. And we are asking questions about.

I know that one of our CNN affiliates spoke with a friend of the man who was fatally shot in Orlando. And this friend acknowledges that the FBI had been on his friend's tail for at least a month now. This friend, on behalf of the one who was shot, said that his friend had no connection, had no prior knowledge to the Boston bombings, but perhaps had knowledge of something else. That, we have yet to find out. But, of course, Ashleigh, you're right, those are the questions we're asking.

BANFIELD: That is just a remarkable, you know, development in this, labyrinthine investigation.

Susan Candiotti, excellent work getting your information from sources. Thank you for that.

Our national correspondent, Susan Candiotti, reporting live.

The IRS official at the center of the investigation into the targeting of conservative groups pleads the Fifth. Lois Lerner refused to give full testimony at a congressional hearing just a little over an hour ago. But she did say something. She said, "I did nothing wrong."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOIS LERNER, IRS EXEMPT ORGANIZATION DIVISION: I have not done anything wrong. I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules and regulations. And I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee.

And while I would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, I've been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing. After very careful consideration, I've decided to follow my counsel's advice and not testify or answer any of the questions today. Because I'm asserting my right not to testify, I know some people will assume that I've done something wrong. I have not. One of the basic functions of the Fifth Amendment is to protect innocent individuals. And that is the protection I'm invoking today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Stay tuned for more on that because that investigation is far from over.

First, she said she wanted to die, but now, Jodi Arias has changed her mind, pleading for her life yesterday, and directly to the people who hold her fate in their hands, the jury. More from Phoenix, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back. It's an amazing day here in Phoenix, Arizona, at the Maricopa County courthouse. This is the day we could have a final verdict on the fate of Jodi Arias after what has amounted to one of more bizarre murder cases, not only the guilt-innocence phase, but this death penalty face. Jodi Arias, standing up in front of the jury and giving what amounted to a power point presentation, list by list, giving reason why they should spare her life. To many it was bizarre. She would grow her hair for a cancer donation and she would start a recycling program and a book club in prison were they to spare her life, and it would spare her family anymore pain, thus, not giving her the death penalty. But maybe one of the more bizarre aspects, and maybe the jury knows something about this, they shouldn't, but if they do by accident or happenstance, that woman gave an interview to KSAZ, a local affiliate here in Arizona, minutes after she was convicted of first-degree murder, in which she told a local anchor here, named Troy Hayden, that she wanted to die. It would be easier to die than spend her life in prison. And yet, she made an appeal to the jury that she wanted to live and, yet again, gave another interview to Troy Hayden, with KSAZ, explaining herself.

Have a look at what she said to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROY HAYDEN, REPORTER, KSAZ: I never heard you say, "I'm sorry."

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: I don't think I used those two words. But I feel that I've made my remorse. And if I didn't adequately convey it, then I regret that, but certainly --

(CROSSTALK)

HAYDEN: Do you want to do it now?

ARIAS: Well, there's nothing I can do to take back what I did. I wish that I could. I really, really wish that I could. I can never make up for what happened.

HAYDEN: Do you want to say "I'm sorry" right now to Travis Alexander's family?

ARIAS: Certainly. I'm definitely sorry.

HAYDEN: You talked about lies today and the lies you told in the courtroom. You told me two weeks ago that you'd rather die than go to jail for life, go to prison for life. Was that a lie?

ARIAS: No, I meant that when I said it.

HAYDEN: So what happened?

ARIAS: Well, the same day I was convicted, I received a visit from my family. One of my cousins really drove it home for me and told me how much it would affect them if I did anything to myself or that sort of thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So she said that she wasn't lying to that correspondent when she said she wanted to die, and that she's not lying now when she says she wants to live.

We have our HLN legal correspondents, Beth Karas and Jean Casarez, joining me, and Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN's Dr. Drew, on call.

Let me begin with you, Beth Karas.

As a former prosecutor, how do you spit through most of that and not want to bring back that tape and show it to the jury and say, when does this woman tell the truth, and why should you believe anything that she's pleading to you now?

BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm sure Juan Martinez was squirming, wishing he could do that, but it would have to be proper rebuttal. And she did say in her statement that I have made statements before that I wanted to die but I didn't have the perspective that I have now. The jury doesn't know she said it as recently as two weeks ago. They know, from evidence from the trial, she said it early on when she was arrested. She did give a reason for it. And that would basically mean there wouldn't be any rebuttal evidence to it. But he probably wishes he could have said more to the jury.

BANFIELD: Boy, I'll say. And who knows if any of those jurors who are not sequestered have heard some kind of wind in the atmosphere as they travel back and forth between the courtroom and their homes. It's everywhere. Everyone is talking about it in this town.

Jean Casarez, to you.

You watched the family of Travis Alexander in that courtroom, as she said the words, "I never meant to hurt them, I never meant to drag him through the mud, I never meant to defame him or destroy his reputation." Their reaction was palpable.

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: No question about it. They've heard this before. She's been on the stand for 18 days. And I think they're just trying to get through it at this point.

Back to Jodi, and her suicidal ideation, she, in her journal entries, in the 1990s, wrote about suicide, that she was interested in suicide. And, Ashleigh, I spoke with Jodi's mother where she said she wanted to die. Her mother was at the jail, I was at the jail, she was about ready to go in to see Jodi, the first time after the interview. Her mother said to me, she can do good in prison, she can do good, there's something that she can do that is of value. I think her mother was very, very responsible for part of the allocution yesterday. I think her mother told her, you can teach others in prison. Because there are issues in our prison system with rehabilitation. There are women that are going to get out of the prison that Jodi will be in. She can be a teacher of reading and writing, and reading books and having women build a life for themselves. Maybe she won't get out, but she can help other women get out.

BANFIELD: It's hard to watch. I got to be honest, after seeing the Alexander family and friends sobbing for five months in that courtroom, and then watching Jodi's own mother and father really mostly stoic through that entire allocution, it was remarkable.

Dr. Drew, I want to bring you in on this.

The whole notion that a defendant gets up in front of a jury to begs for mercy. It feels very much like the dark ages, that you beg for you not to kill me. That's what it was. Officially, you're begging for them not to kill you. It was done by Power Point and props. I just wanted to get your feeling as to how effective it is to just do the check list, and not just truly drop all the drama, and simply appeal to their natures, to the jury's nature?

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, DR. DREW: Well, I think, Ashleigh, and that's what everyone was hoping for from Jodi Arias. That they were hoping for some sort of impassioned appeal. But, of course, Jodi isn't really connected to her feelings. That's what's so disturbing and unsatisfying about working with her. She has a borderline personality disorder, so all of her feelings get projected on us. That's the way borderlines function. Saying things, I wish you'd put me to death, is saying -- this is how borderlines work -- I have a murderous rage, you've seen evidence of that, and I can't get anywhere near it. She doesn't know she has it. But I'm going to project it on to you, you'll kill me, and then you'll be guilty of my rage. It's very unsatisfying.

Also, I agree with what Jean was saying about the mom having been responsible for the nature of the appeal she gave yesterday, but I think it's a gross miscalculation to think that the jurors would want her to have a satisfying gratifying life of service. Or from my perspective as well, would want her working with other inmates. She's not the one I would select to be being a teacher or somebody being of service to other people in trouble.

BANFIELD: Well, Beth, Jean, Dr. Drew, thank you for your insight.

Clearly, this jury has a lot to wrestle with. They've been wrestling with for 90 minutes already. Those deliberations resume shortly in this courthouse behind all us.

Thank you all for your perspective.

Two years ago today, the people of Joplin, Missouri, were forced to dig through rubble after a monster tornado tore through their town. But what lessons can the residents of Moore take from the people who were victimized themselves in Joplin? That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back from Moore, Oklahoma. Devastating. Over my shoulder you can see them actually starting to tow some of the cars that have just been crushed and crumbled. They're towing them out of this parking lot right here. They have a lot of work to do. There are so many of these damaged vehicles here.

As the recovery efforts really just get started here in Moore, it's important to note an anniversary because it was two years ago today that a devastating tornado tore through Joplin, Missouri. 161 people were killed there. So many more injured. That town really suffered just terrible, terrible damage.

A little earlier this morning, I spoke to the mayor of Joplin about what her message is for the people here in Oklahoma.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELODEE COLBERT-KEAN, MAYOR OF JOPLIN, MISSOURI: There is going to be hope. There is hope because devastation doesn't last, but determination does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now by Skype is Keith Stammer, the director of Joplin and Jasper County Emergency Management.

Thank you so much for being with us, Keith. I really appreciate it.

Let me ask you right off the bat here, how are you marking this anniversary in Joplin? It's been two years since you suffered that devastation.

KEITH STAMMER, DIRECTOR, JOPLIN & JASPER COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: John, last year we had a full-blown -- remember, it's been the first year anniversary. This one's a bit more subdued. We're going to have a few speeches. We'll have a remembrance at 5:41, which was the particular touchdown time of that tornado. We'll have a lot of tents set up with information booths. And one thing we're pushing is the mental aspect, the healing that's going on, and celebrating accomplishments we've had in the last two years.

BERMAN: Talk to me about these accomplishments. What's the status of the recovery in Joplin?

STAMMER: Well, in my opinion the recovery's going very well. We have over 85 percent of the structures that were destroyed have been permitted to be either rebuilt or replaced.

One of the things that we tried to do is put a very positive spin on this. It's not often that when you lose a large section of town like we did, almost a third of the city, that you can step back after a bit and say what would we like to do with this particular area? It's almost like a new canvas. So we've done a lot of research in talking to our citizens, what do you want to see here? Do you want to see running trails? Do you want to see schools? Do you want to see businesses? How would you like this to be scaped? And how would you like this to look? That's been a very good input from our citizens and that's driven a lot of what we're doing.

BERMAN: And what's your message to the people here as you look at the destruction that's surrounding me in Moore, Oklahoma, right now? What is a message you would like to send to residents here?

STAMMER: I want to echo what the city mayor had to say about hope and determination. In my experience, they have something going for them that others don't. They do have some experience having been through this 14 years ago. It gives them a certain amount of confidence that they've been through this once and they can surely go through this again.

The bottom line here is, in our business, we say all disasters are local. Every disaster starts locally and it ends locally. And they understand that all the help that's come to them is good help and they're glad to have it. But in the end that help is going to go away and they're going to be looking after themselves, and they can do this. They've done it before. By golly, they can do it again.

BERMAN: Your message of hope is certainly being heard in this town. We really appreciate it.

Keith Stammer up in Joplin, Missouri.

Our thoughts go out to you two years after the disaster that struck your home.

STAMMER: Thanks very much.

BERMAN: Thanks for being with us.

STAMMER: Thank you.

BERMAN: Our continuing coverage from Moore, Oklahoma, will continue in a moment. We have more stories of the heroes who helped save so many lives here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: As we close out this hour, we wanted to remember some of the heroes that helped save so many lives here in the town of Moore, Oklahoma. And there were so many lives saved by quick thinking and quick action.

One of the people who helped save a bunch of young lives was second- grade teacher, Tammy Glasgow. When she heard the tornado warning, when she heard the sirens, her quick thinking had saved so many kids. She stuffed as many as she could into the closets and bathrooms of this school just before the storm hit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMMY GLASGOW, SECOND-GRADE TEACHER, BRIARWOOD ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: I glanced up once and you could just see it. It was just like brown, huge, never ending. All the way up to the heavens. And then I got back down, a cinder block fell on the back of my neck. So I crouched back down and happened to look up again and you could see that it was -- the sky was clearing but there was just stuff flying everywhere. So I said, not yet, not yet, and got back down. And finally, the rain started and we could tell that it was getting lighter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It was getting lighter. And hero, teacher, Tammy Glasgow, she saved so many lives, and so many thanks to her for her quick thinking and quick actions.

I'm John Berman, in Moore, Oklahoma, for Ashleigh Banfield, covering in Phoenix, Arizona, today, that's all for now.

Our continuing coverage of the aftermath of the devastating tornado here in Moore, Oklahoma, will continue right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)