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Jodi Arias Jury Split on Death Penalty; Suspected Terror Attack in London

Aired May 22, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to go to London for that story.

The other story, Phoenix, Arizona, the Jodi Arias trial. We know that the jury has been deliberating this final phase, the penalty phase. Will she get life? Will she get death?

Ashleigh Banfield is there live on the ground with a major development in that story -- Ashleigh.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, this is not something that we were necessarily expecting, but this jury has just come back, only mere hours into deliberations, and announced to this judge that they are in fact unable to reach a unanimous decision on life or death for Jodi Arias.

It's not over yet. Usually, what happens in these cases -- and this is no exception -- a judge will read an instruction. Oftentimes, it has been described as a dynamite-like charge for a jury to go back, and try again, try harder, so to speak. And a lot of times in many jurisdictions, it is called an Allen charge where a judge beseeches a jury to just take a deep breath and work it out. Don't let yourself be bullied into someone else's opinion, but give it another go-round.

And shockingly enough, it often works. Oftentimes, you can come to some kind of unanimity. In this particular case, given the fact they only deliberated for just over -- and I got to check my clock here, but I even don't think it's quite two hours in total, maybe a little over two hours -- it would seem very early for people who typically watch court processes and especially first-degree murder cases, capital murder cases, death penalty cases, that this is very, very early to reach impasse.

Now, another very strange circumstance in this state and this state alone to my knowledge is that in this circumstance at this very late phase, you can actually bring in another jury. So a hung jury will not automatically mean a life sentence with or without parole after 25 for Jodi Arias. It instead could result in another impanelling of 12 of her peers from the state of Arizona, possibly even Maricopa County.

After all of the coverage, five-month-long, of this case, people who have not been sequestered and not been instructed not to watch any of this coverage, and not to watch the proceedings, a brand-new set of people could be brought in. And there would be relitigation of the penalty phase. So this is such an unusual development that this jury has now announced. Now, they have gone back. They have left -- they have left the courtroom after hearing from Judge Sherry Stephens they just have to try harder.

Can I remind you, Brooke, that this state has spent in excess of $1.8 million in just the defense, just the defense of Jodi Arias in this marathon trial, only to hear now at this late phase on the life or death question that those 12 jurors can't come to an agreement.

BALDWIN: That is a tremendous amount of money.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Brooke, I'm just getting that their deliberations have -- they have resumed. They're back at it. The clock starts again. They're back at the deliberations, Brooke. Sorry.

BALDWIN: OK. Ashleigh Banfield in Phoenix, Ashleigh, thank you. We will come back to you as news merits.

Meantime to London, the other breaking story we're watching for you on this Wednesday afternoon, the British government holding an emergency meeting, responding to a bizarre and deadly suspected terror attack. In fact, this video here, this is YouTube video apparently showing the incident itself, which started when a British soldier was brutally murdered in the streets and now we know two other men, possibly his attackers, have been shot by police.

Fran Townsend, CNN national security analyst, is in New York, and Atika Shubert covering the developing story there in London.

Atika, first, to you, we have this on camera statement from the suspect. Let's listen to that first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I apologize that women had to witness this today, but in our land, our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government. They don't care about you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So this is, Atika, this is a portion of what was filmed after the slaying of this soldier. I understand we have the full statement. What else did this guy say?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, this video basically tallies what a lot of eyewitnesses have been telling me. Two attackers, with meat cleavers and machetes basically hacked this what we believe to be an off-duty British soldier to death.

Now, in one of those videos, one of the attackers says: "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. The only reasons we killed this man, this is because Muslims are dying daily. The British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

He goes on to say: "We apologize for the women that had to see this today, but in our lands, our women have to see the same. Your people will never be safe. Remove your government. They do not care about you."

I mean, these are -- it is an incredibly chilling and disturbing statement. And in that video, as he's saying this, you can see the body of the murdered man just behind him there. It really is grisly and horrific. And in the words of one eyewitness I spoke to, it is something you see in a horror movie, frankly.

BALDWIN: Atika, stand by.

Fran Townsend, let me bring you in, because I want to play this sound for British Prime Minister David Cameron. Fran, after hearing the suspects' alleged confessions, does it have the hallmarks of a suspected terrorist attack?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I have been briefed by the home secretary about this absolutely sickening attack in Woolwich in London. It is the most appalling crime.

We obviously are urgently seeking and the police are urgently seeking the full facts about this case. But there are strong indications that it is a terrorist incident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Strong indications that it is a terrorist incident.

Fran, your thoughts.

FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Brooke, look, from the suspect's statement alone, you can see why this claiming of retribution for Western fighters, British soldiers in Muslim lands, we have heard this before from groups like al Qaeda.

And, by the way, we also have seen the release of videos on the Internet of beheadings conducted by al Qaeda in places around the world and executions. And so it has the feeling of that. I think that's why you're hearing the British prime minister say that there are indications that this is terrorism-related. Obviously, you want to know more about who he might have associated with.

They will do a comprehensive look. Now, were they aware of him prior to the event? Who were his contacts with? And what prior indications were there of his affiliations with an extremist group? But horrible. You watch this video and you sort of say to yourself, oh, my God, where are the police? Where are people to who have tried to stop this?

But you see, this is -- the suspect is large, he's got this meat cleaver in his hands, and probably had some help. BALDWIN: And if we still have Atika, I just have one more question for Atika, as I'm looking at this video here on this monitor -- don't have -- OK.

Fran, I'm looking at this and thinking, my goodness, it looks to be broad daylight.

TOWNSEND: Right. And, by the way, this would have unfolded over minutes. This was not -- it didn't happen sort of instantaneously like a gunshot to have hacked this British soldier to death.

It took time. And so, you know, you really have no doubt that the British government is going to look at a chronology of how this happened. There are cameras all over London. The city of London now, it is part of their security program. They will try to understand who was in the area, what steps were taken to stop this attack and exactly what happened.

BALDWIN: As you point out, one of the questions would be , is he connected to, you know, a larger terrorist group? What are some of the questions -- what would be some of the investigations happening right now as police are clearly responding to this incident in London?

TOWNSEND: No question, Brooke, they will look at this guy's cell phone and all his cell phone contact, his Internet interactions and contacts, not only inside the U.K., for possible associates, but around the world.

They will look to see, was he listening or viewing extremist videos or audiotapes on the Internet? Was he radicalized, as we seen here in the United States, this notion of homegrown? Was he inside the U.K.? Was he homegrown and radicalized over the Internet or did he have international travel that might have tipped them off?

They will look at all of that now to try and understand, is this an isolated incident or a broader threat to the British people?

BALDWIN: Incredibly, incredibly gruesome. Fran Townsend, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

TOWNSEND: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We will be following this story obviously in the next couple of hours here on CNN.

Meantime, now to the special coverage in Moore, Oklahoma. We now know six adults are still missing here in Moore. Keep in mind this is in addition to 24 known fatalities. And now two days after Monday's tornado slammed through this area, the search for survivors is beginning to wind down.

Crews are shifting from rescue to recovery. We also have learned that this was an EF-5 tornado. That is one of the most powerful tornadoes ever recorded, packing winds of up to 210 miles per hour. And it carved a 17-mile path of destruction throughout this area of Oklahoma, causing what could be more than $2 billion, with a B, in damage. One of the most heartbreaking scenes is this pile of wreckage, want to show you, where the Plaza Towers Elementary School once stood. Look at this. Seven children died there while just taking shelter in a classroom. We learned today that President Obama will be coming to this area. He will be visiting Moore, Oklahoma, this Sunday.

And we want to take you inside what is left of that elementary school.

Chief national correspondent John King took a tour of the school just a short time ago. And here is what he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Uncertainty who was here, who wasn't here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Had to verify with the parents who is accounted for, who is not, things like that.

KING: And what goes -- the school goes back. Can you take us back and just give us a sense of...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heading out. Yes.

Can I talk to you before you go, though?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

KING: How are you doing, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is more classrooms back here. This was the gymnasium here.

KING: So -- was the gym a separate building or was it attached somehow?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gym was separate.

KING: You go across this driveway to get to the gymnasium building?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

KING: And so the classroom buildings would have ended here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

KING: That's what all this is. Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The school kind of went in a U. It came out this way, right here. It went -- that was the back corner right there.

KING: Right. So come around like a U. Get it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then there was another building separately out there. There were some portables out there, which, of course, didn't withstand anything.

KING: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But just down the hill, those were houses that were all brick houses, where the trees and things like that are. That used to all be houses. You couldn't see -- that was just the neighborhood right there.

KING: It's just gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there is really -- where that truck is, that's actually the next street over we just drove by.

BLITZER: So, this is ground zero. This is where it hit the hardest.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where it really -- really just across Santa Fe, really picked up. This is our widest area, with the most devastation. But there's several hundred houses through here that are off the foundation. There is just nothing left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So you heard John saying, you know, that was really ground zero of where that elementary school once stood.

And there is something that that school and a couple of homes I know I have toured, other colleagues have toured have in common. And that is the fact that a lot of these places here don't have storm shelters.

And I know a lot of you not living in Oklahoma, you think, wouldn't it just be common sense? You're living in the middle of Tornado Alley. That would be obvious. But it is actually not necessarily the case. They're expensive. And some people just choose not to do it. They say what are the odds of actually being hit by a tornado?

I was -- just a quick anecdote. I was on a plane coming here, and I was sitting next to this amazing older woman, been here for 44 years, and she said, I don't have an fraidy hole. That's what they call them sort of colloquially around here. But in talking to these people and seeing the devastation, that may soon change.

We will share a couple of other stories with regard to these storm shelters next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Live special coverage here of the tornado, the horrific, fatal tornado and aftermath, and a number of survivor stories, but I want to share something with you, something I learned about storm shelters on my way here to Oklahoma.

As I mentioned a moment ago, I was sitting on a plane with this woman. She called this storm shelter a fraidy hole. A scaredy hole someone else called it today when I was with them at their home. And I met these two people this morning, neighbors, who have lived in Moore all their lives, both of whom lost their homes on Monday. And both learned a lesson after what happened to them. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You know, I was on a plane with someone. She is from here, loves Oklahoma, lived here 44 years and she said, no, I don't have a fraidy hole in my house. I said, a fraidy hole?

SCOTT HINES, SURVIVOR: Yes, a hidey hole.

TERRY MILLER, SURVIVOR: A hidey hole.

BALDWIN: A hidey hole, a safety room, a shelter.

MILLER: But you know what? But I'm going to have one this next time because I want -- because when you actually have been through it...

BALDWIN: Your mind changes.

MILLER: Your mind a little bit changes, because...

BALDWIN: Your mind changes.

HINES: year

MILLER: Because it is scary. It is a thought of what if I didn't get out as soon as I did? Because the thing is, if that tornado was right on the next street, and I could not drive fast enough, me and my kids would be in a car flying in the air like Dorothy.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MILLER: It is still that feeling of, OK, I would rather have it. Now, my only fear is, OK, do I want a safe room or do I want a hole? Now, it is that choice.

HINES: The best way, if you have them either way, you go to your fire department after you have them built and you can register.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MILLER: Yes.

HINES: So they know where you're at and when they come and do these surveys...

BALDWIN: They know where to find you.

(CROSSTALK)

HINES: They will come and check every single one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: They both told me that they will be rebuilding here in Moore and they will both be building these safety shelters at their homes.

Coming up, we are going to check in with my colleague Stephanie Elam. She is not too far away from me here in Moore. She has more stories of survival.

Also, though, as they're digging for -- through some of the rubble, some surprising discoveries. She's live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I'm Ashleigh Banfield reporting live in Phoenix, Arizona, at the Maricopa County Courthouse where it is a bit of a bombshell, and really not something that we expected to hear so early in the jury's deliberations over the fate of Jodi Arias.

Will she live or will she die? But this jury has announced to judge Sherry Stephens in this courtroom just in the last few moments that they are unable to reach a unanimous verdict on life or death, again, the jury announcing to the judge they are unable to agree on a unanimous verdict.

And in this state, it is required that the jury is unanimous on either life or death. If it is life, it is the judge who decides if it is natural life forever or life with the possibility of a parole or release, a whole other issue in this state that is up in arms right now because of the legislature vs. the courts.

But besides that, what this judge has done is implore this jury in the courtroom to give it another go. Sometimes, it is called the dynamite charge. Sometimes, it is called an Allen charge. Whatever you call it, it is an effort to get the jury to take a deep breath and go back at it, go back at the work that they have worked so hard on for the last five months. This has been a marathon for these jurors.

So to be only a couple of hours into deliberations and announce an impasse, the judge, as is in almost all cases, will ask them, do it again, go back, and let me know if you truly are at an impasse. And believe it or not, oftentimes, it works.

I want to bring in my colleague Nancy Grace, who has been following this case since the beginning. She joins me live.

Nancy, I can only imagine this came as a bit of a surprise to you, given the allocution that we witnessed in that courtroom yesterday, and that there was no request for mercy, nor sincere apology for a murder. There seemed to be a sticking to your guns, a regret that the family suffered, but no genuine apology or sincere fear of death.

Give me your thoughts on this latest development.

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Well, I'm trying to be optimistic and hope that this is just a speed bump, just a hiccup, a blip on the radar, that the jury will follow the judge's instructions and go back into that jury deliberation room and do what they're brought in for.

And that is reach a unanimous verdict. Here's the thing. It seems to me -- you pointed out earlier that this is pretty quick in the deliberations to say, to announce they're unable to reach a verdict. I agree with you.

And it makes me surmise that there is one or more, but probably one, person back in there saying, I just can't give the death penalty, period. I just can't do it. Well, if there is somebody back there, one or more, claiming that they just can't give the death penalty, that means they lied, that they were deceptive in their voir dire or their jury selection where they promised they could be open to either the death penalty or life behind bars in a murder one situation.

So if that's true, that person can be thrown off the jury and an alternate brought in, in many jurisdictions. The Allen charge, the dynamite, it is not a usual. You don't want to scold the jury, because you don't want it said on appeal if there is a conviction, I mean, if there is a death sentence, that someone was coerced into it. You don't want that.

But the sad outcome will be if these 12 can't get it together, then we have got to strike a whole new jury for sentencing only, or, an even more horrible thought, a guilty plea to life.

BANFIELD: Well, Nancy, when you were a prosecute, you were almost undefeated, if not undefeated, and you have seen this happen. What is it about an Allen charge, a dynamite charge, whatever you want to say, what is it about the judge's request of this jury to just try harder that often actually works? What possibly could she say that could change their opinions now?

GRACE: Well, I never had a jury personally that needed dynamite. I never had to dynamite a jury. They -- every one came back with a guilty verdict, also came back with what I wanted on sentencing.

But long story short, I have seen many juries dynamited. They just need a talking-to to get them to remember that they're there for a reason, that they need to work together. And also in that charge she gave them was something very important. The judge told them, if you're stuck on a point of law, if you want a read-back, if there is anything that we can give you, any tool to help you reach a unanimous verdict, tell us. Put it in writing and we will get that for you.

Do you want to see pictures? Do you want to re-hear what the siblings said? Do you want to hear what Arias said about let me live so I can sell T-shirts? Fine. I will give it to you. But get back in there and reach a verdict basically is what she told them.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: In many situations, it works.

BANFIELD: Just quickly, I want to ask you, there is no shortage of coverage of their. Case, the intrigue across this country for cases like Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias has been remarkable. I don't think there are many people who don't know something about this case.

If they have to bring in another jury at this late stage, they're not going to relitigate whether she's guilty or innocent. That's done. But they're going to -- you know, they could bring in a jury to litigate this aspect of it. But this is a jury unlike any other. They have been privy to all of the coverage of this case, every aspect of it, that the current jury was told on penalty they could not watch or see or listen to or discuss.

So, isn't that appellate in its own nature? Isn't that just sort of morally wrong?

GRACE: I don't even know what you're talking about morally wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Well, they have had a lot of coverage that this jury hasn't had. How fair can that be?

GRACE: As I was saying, morality and the law are two completely different animals, number one.

And I have long said, if this is the law, then the law is an ass. And I stand by that. But here's the problem. Let me just say a few names that may ring a bell, O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Casey Anthony. The defense swore up and down they would never get a fair trial, there's no way there could be an acquittal. But guess what? There was.

And I guarantee you there are 12 good souls out there that have not paid one bit of attention to the Jodi Arias case. They're at work all day. They come home, and they put the children to bed. They don't want to know about Jodi Arias and all her shenanigans.

I guarantee you they can find another jury, a jury that will reach a unanimous verdict.

BANFIELD: And do you think that's what will happen if they're actually at a final impasse? Do you think that Judge Sherry Stephens will do that, instead of work towards some kind of a plea deal where we end this all now?

GRACE: Well, I don't know what the point is after since December trying to -- quote -- "end it all now." Oh, no, no, no.

And, plus, it is not up to the judge to end anything. If the state wants to offer a guilty plea, that's their business. The judge cannot coerce a plea. She can't do that. It is not her position to do that.

BANFIELD: Yes. She has to accept it though, right?

GRACE: So, the state would have to offer a plea and the defense accept. If I were the state, after all this time, I absolutely would not give a plea. I would get back in the ring and start over again.

BANFIELD: Astounding development. Nancy Grace live for us, thank you for your perspective on this.

Again, if you're just joining us, the jury in the Jodi Arias case, after five months of a trial, a guilty verdict, a second decision that this was a cruel crime. On their third go-round at deliberations as to whether Jodi Arias should live for the rest of her life in prison potentially or die, they are unable to come to this decision as a unanimous group.

And so now they have been sent back to continue their deliberations, work a little harder, maybe work a little longer, considering it only has been a few hours total. But that's the -- that's the development on a day where truly a development is expected daily in this case.

Brooke, I'm going to send it back to you live in Oklahoma.

BALDWIN: I know you said there have just been surprising twists and turns.