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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Travis`s Family Not Backing Down; Juror Describes Closed-Door Proceedings
Aired May 28, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. The battle for justice has just begun. Travis Alexander`s family saying tonight they are not giving up. They are not backing down in their fight against Jodi Arias, the woman who murdered their brother.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live with new developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I`m ready to meet my maker, but if that time should come...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, duly empanelled and sworn in the above-entitled action, upon our oath, unanimously find, having considered all the facts and circumstances, that the defendant should be sentenced, no unanimous -- no unanimous agreement.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: The jury has hung.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the end of it, we were mentally and emotionally exhausted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t believe what she had to say. I don`t think she ever was truly honest with us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Travis! Justice for Travis!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Travis! Justice for Travis!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Travis! Justice for Travis!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I was there for that melee. People are upset.
Jodi Arias has been convicted of premeditated murder in the brutal killing of her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander. But the jury could not decide whether to kill her by lethal injection or sentence Jodi to life in prison. It was a hung jury.
So tonight, Jodi is back in that same jail where she`s already spent almost five years -- That`s her cell, specifically -- waiting for her retrial, cool as a cucumber and yes, people, she is tweeting again. You will not believe what she is saying now. We`ll tell you in a second.
Tonight, Travis`s brother-in-law hints that the Alexander family, despite their exhaustion and financial hardship, is set to march back to court in July for more fireworks in Phoenix during the retrial of the life- or-death phase. He posted to Facebook that Travis`s brothers and sisters are, quote, "all emotionally drained and preparing themselves emotionally and mentally for the retrial." And he added, "Let goodness prevail over evil."
So while some jurors could not vote for death, the Alexander family wants Jodi off the face of the earth. They want her to get the needle. Remember, Travis`s brother said he never wants to look at his brother`s killer again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN ALEXANDER, TRAVIS`S BROTHER: I don`t want these nightmares anymore. I don`t want to have to see my brother`s murderer anymore. I don`t want to hear his name dragged through the mud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. What do you think? 1-877- 586-7297.
Let`s debate it with our expert panel. Let`s debate it with our expert panel. How much does the family`s desire to retry the penalty phase factor into the prosecutor`s decision? After all, the prosecutor can make a deal to try to avoid a penalty phase retrial. So once again, I say it, let us debate it with our expert panel. Starting with Jon Leiberman.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Jane, I think it plays a significant role. I mean, let me tell you this. I have sat with so many victims` families over the years, so many. Some have gotten justice; some haven`t.
In this case, it is so clear that Travis`s family, all they want is justice. And if they say they want to go forward with this next phase, then my opinion would be the prosecutor should go forward. Because I believe in my heart the prosecution doesn`t want to quit, either.
This mission is not yet finished for the state of Arizona, for Travis Alexander`s family and for the prosecution.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Adam Swickle, for the defense, a non- decision is nonetheless a decision. This is what they came up with. Some would say, "Well, let`s respect the non-decision decision."
ADAM SWICKLE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I`ve got to tell you, while I agree with what was just stated regarding the family`s influence as to whether to retry it, I believe in the state of Arizona it`s very much a draconian state when it comes to the death penalty.
We have a jury who heard all the evidence and could not make a decision. And that is a decision. We should respect that decision. The judge should go ahead and sentence her to life. And we should allow things to play out that way.
To now just pick a new jury only to hear the penalty phase, it`s astounding to me that they can even do something like that. And I disagree with it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy for the prosecution.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Look, if the way they came to that non-decision decision was fair, I might agree, but this trial was a bunch of porn nonsense. And they were really -- this defense was playing to the guys, whipping the sex fog into the courtroom and sort of tricking the male jurors, in my opinion, into never, ever wanting to kill her. Because when you hear 18 days of anal and oral sex, you can`t vote for death. That`s a buzz kill in the...
SWICKLE: That`s what a trial is all about.
MURPHY: I am sickened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let Wendy finish her controversial conspiracy theory...
MURPHY: Can I just finish?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and then we`ll get reaction.
MURPHY: It`s not a conspiracy theory. O.J. used racism. This trial, the defense used porn. And it worked. It worked. It spared her life so far.
But so as not to reward such disgusting tactics, I would go forward again, win or lose, just to make it clear that that is not how you play defense games in the American legal system.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Johnson for the defense.
JANET JOHNSON, ATTORNEY: Let`s have a little bit of respect for these jurors. I mean, these are adults, and they`ve been really brave in their statements about what happened in the jury room. And they respect each other. Why don`t we respect them?
And, you know, just because a guy is a guy doesn`t mean that he gets tricked. Nobody fell for what she said. They didn`t acquit her. They just didn`t think, four of them -- not one, not two, but four -- didn`t think this was a death case. And I think...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Real quickly, Jon Leiberman.
LEIBERMAN: Look, retrying -- but retrying the sentencing phase is in no way disrespecting these jurors. The system allows for it there. And in the past decade, in Arizona, in death-penalty cases, there have been five hung juries. Three of those defendants ended up on Death Row. So there`s no -- it`s not -- it`s not a slap in the face to this jury to go back and do the sentencing phase again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, the jurors are breaking their silence. And we`re now finding out who voted for life, who voted for death. Watch this from "Good Morning America," and then we`re going to talk to someone who sat on the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By a show of hands, who voted to give Jodi Arias the death penalty? All three of you. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because the state proved their case. It was premeditated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We are very delighted to have with us tonight Carol Gosling, juror No. 10.
You ultimately became an alternate, but you sat there. I saw you. I was sitting in the gallery, and I saw you intently listening and taking notes.
First of all, I want to compliment you for doing your service as a citizen. And there`s so many people who get out of jury duty. Right at you, salute that you did this and you devoted so many months of your life to this case. I applaud you for that.
And in fact, I think our expert panel, everybody, we should applaud you for doing what you -- what so many people try to get out of. Let`s be real. Let`s be honest.
Now, as far as Jodi Arias, I first would love to hear your story of the stare-down. I understand that you and Jodi got into some kind of eye- to-eye? Tell us all about it.
CAROL GOSLING, JURY MEMBER FOR JODI ARIAS TRIAL: We had a good old- fashioned stare-down. It was a surprise to me. But during a sidebar, she started looking at me. And at first I thought she was looking over my head or is she really looking at me or something else, but pretty soon it was obvious. It was just a good old-fashioned stare-down. And probably went on for about 40 seconds.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: About what? Could she tell -- now are you one of those who would have voted for death?
GOSLING: I am. I am. You know, maybe it`s easy to say when I didn`t have to go through deliberations and actually make the decision, but I -- I can pretty firmly say that, yes, I would have voted for the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So did she sense that? I mean, why would she get into a stare-down with you? What was that about?
GOSLING: I don`t know. And I wasn`t going to say anything to any of the other jurors, but then on the way back into the jury room, one of the other jurors approached me and said, "What was that about?" I really don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you just heard a controversial comment by one of our panelists. And I can`t control what`s going to come out of their mouths, but I do like Wendy as a person. She`s known for controversy. She said something to the effect of, you know, there`s a lot of men on the injury. She`s an attractive woman. There was a lot of porn and sex talk and felt that maybe that played a factor, consciously or unconsciously. What do you think?
GOSLING: I honestly don`t think that gender was a major issue. And we talked about that with the judge after everything was over. And no one really thinks that gender was the issue.
Personally, I think age was the issue. I believe that the older folks, maybe it`s a situation where, when there`s less life left, it becomes more precious. I don`t know. But I believe that age was the real issue and not gender.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you -- why do you say that?
GOSLING: I do, in fact, know who the -- who voted which way. I can`t share that. We agreed not to share that. And I would, also, at this point, I would worry about the safety of the folks that did vote for life versus the death penalty. I just would not want to take the chance of something happening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you said age is a factor. Why?
GOSLING: I do believe so, because I know who the folks were that -- that voted for life over death. And there was an indication that possibly age would be a factor. Also, if you...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were the older ones -- they were the older ones, right? Some of the older ones? Some of the older ones?
GOSLING: Yes. Yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If that makes sense -- go ahead.
GOSLING: Well, if you look at what happened during the trial, the ones that were dismissed and then the ones that were chosen for alternates. Five of those folks -- there were six total. Five of them were 50 or less. And one was -- was an older person, was an older gentleman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, you`re saying that the younger people got filtered out, and in the end it was more older people, which is what my verbal and my -- sorry, my eyes told me.
And I think you`re right. Carol, I think that older people probably reacted with a lot more shock to the sex tapes. The younger people -- and I always include myself in that category, even though I may not -- maybe I shouldn`t -- but, you know, these days we hear everything and nothing shocks us.
But for older folks, some of that language might have really been more a lot more shocking. They`re not sitting around watching MTV, videos and on YouTube seeing all the hyper-sexuality. So for them, what went on, the content might have made them more upset than the younger people, who might have said, "Well, that`s no excuse." Right?
Not to say that they said it was an excuse, but it may have hit them in the gut in a different way.
Stay right there, Carol. We love hearing what you have to say.
Coming up, another story that reminds us of the Jodi Arias case. A drunken argument this time and a fatal shot. Is this another case of a boyfriend killer? You won`t believe the wild details on this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARYN KELLEY, MURDER SUSPECT: The gun went off in the house. My boyfriend just died!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you guys fighting about?
KELLEY: He shot himself. He shot himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: My nieces are the closest I`ll ever come to motherhood, because I`m not going to have children of my own. I`m not going to become a mother because of my own terrible choices. I`ve had to lay that dream to rest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s the thing. There were so many things that the jurors did not see, because they`re not supposed to watch TV. Like the bizarre interrogation tape when Jodi got up from her chair and did a headstand. Well, she opened up about the motive behind this very strange behavior. Listen to this from Dr. Drew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was such an odd answer, Dr. Drew. She said, "The reason I did a headstand after I had been charged, because I looked around and I saw this beautiful carpet on the floor. And I figured I was going to a place where I wouldn`t have carpet anymore, and I like to do headstands on carpet." And that was her answer.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN ANCHOR: Did anybody...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, take a look at the headstand. And Carol Gosling, I`m sure you know about this now. But when you were on the jury, you were not supposed to know about this.
When you see this kind of bizarre behavior -- she`s being arrested for murder, and she does a headstand. She does a hair flip. She does a very erotic backbend over the chair in the interrogation room. Does that change your view of Jodi Arias? What was your reaction when you saw the headstand?
GOSLING: Honestly, I -- to me it looked like a stress reducer. Like, something that she was doing to try to reduce some stress.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, it didn`t shock you? It didn`t make -- a lot of people think Jodi Arias is insane. That young lady who was just talking there on Dr. Drew, I spoke to her, as well. She told me, "I think Jodi Arias is completely insane."
She interviewed her during the life or death deliberations phase, when Jodi was giving that whole media tour. And she walked out of there saying the girl is crazy. What do you make of that?
GOSLING: I think that when we see terrible things like this happen, there are two kinds of people that commit them. One type are people that emotionally have problems, that have behavioral problems. The other type are people that are innately evil. And I think that Jodi is the second.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: wow. So you don`t buy -- you think she is innately evil. You heard it here. Wow! Interesting.
Now, the jury`s foreman told ABC-15 that prosecutor Juan Martinez`s aggressive attitude and sarcastic style did not sit well with him. Remember how fiery Juan Martinez got when he was prosecuting this case? Listen and we`ll debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: So how is it that, if it just happened, you can`t even remember what you just said?
ARIAS: I think I`m more focused on your posture, and your tone and anger. So it`s hard to answer the question.
MARTINEZ: The answer is again, it`s the prosecutor`s fault because you perceive him to be angry.
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: Do you want the truth, Mr. Martinez, or do you...?
MARTINEZ: Yes or no? I`m asking you a question. You seem to be having trouble answering my question. If you have a problem understanding the question, ask me that. Do you want to spar with me? Is that -- will that affect the way you view your testimony?
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Objection. Argumentative.
JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDED OVER TRIAL: Sustained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it with our expert panel. You heard it. One of the jurors, the foreman said Juan went too far. What do you think, Wendy Murphy?
MURPHY: Well, you know, I do understand that. He`s very aggressive, but -- and that`s not my style. I said this on your show at the time, that would not be my style. But I trust his judgment. He knows his state. He knows his people. He knows his community. He knows his courtroom. His anger was legitimate.
And I think it was reasonable, given how angry he was at the lies, the manipulation, these hired-gun experts who were testifying that up was down and black was white. He was angry for good reason. But I agree it`s not my style.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam Swickle for the defense.
SWICKLE: It`s not about his personal anger. I said it on your show, and I was criticized for it. He came out of the box way too aggressive. When you cross-examine the witness, you usually let the witness become aggressive towards you, and then your behavior is justifiable.
He came out of the box like an animal. And I said at the time...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leave the animals out of this.
SWICKLE: Absolutely...
(CROSSTALK)
LEIBERMAN: Juan Martinez...
SWICKLE: And the jurors said it -- It obviously was influential to the juror. And that`s what`s important here, not what we believe, but what that juror believed. And the juror was...
LEIBERMAN: The bottom line is -- the bottom line is what Mr. Martinez did worked. He got a first-degree murder conviction. He got the aggravator in. But he didn`t get...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Let`s -- you raised a very good point. Because yes, he did get a first-degree murder conviction, but he didn`t get his ultimate goal -- at least not yet -- death. I`m not stepping in where I feel about that. I`m just saying he didn`t get his ultimate goal.
So is this...
LEIBERMAN: Yes, but that was...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... a win for Prosecutor Martinez, or was it a draw? He didn`t look so happy when that mistrial, that hung jury came back. And...
MURPHY: It wasn`t his fault. It wasn`t his fault.
LEIBERMAN: It`s a win to this point. But you`re assuming -- you`re assuming for a second, that if he were a little nicer or kinder in the courtroom that these four jurors wouldn`t have voted for, you know, for life instead of death. I just don`t think that`s the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
LEIBERMAN: This is the Juan Martinez, the same prosecutor. He`s been this way for years and years, and his track record is quite good in Arizona.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Coming up, you think the Jodi Arias trial is crazy? Wait until you hear about Caryn Kelley. She says her boyfriend shot himself. But then she said, oh -- oh, no. Five different stories. Five different stories. Check this out and more on Jodi Arias on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Hurry. You can save him. I cannot come there. He`s about to die. Come here. He`s bleeding to death. Hurry! He`s bleeding to death. This is crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Travis! Justice for Travis!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Travis! Justice for Travis!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Travis! Justice for Travis!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Juror No. 10, alternate Carol Gosling, so happy to have you on tonight. Were you shocked when you stopped being a juror -- you weren`t chosen as one of the 12 -- at the intense national coverage?
GOSLING: Was I shocked at the coverage?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Were you shocked at how big a case this is?
GOSLING: Well, to a certain extent. We could see the media growing. There was this huge area where the media was growing outside the courthouse. And we could see that. And they were also taking more security measures with us. So we knew something was up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, prosecutor Juan Martinez, too aggressive? Quickly.
GOSLING: No, I liked him. Actually, I thought everybody did a good job. I thought the defense did a good job, Juan did a good job and I thought the judge did a great job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi has been known for her tweets. Now she`s really crossed the line, and she is now quoting famous poet, national treasure, Maya Angelou. You know, the woman held in high esteem by the entire country?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYA ANGELOU, POET: When land became water and water began to think it was God, consuming lives here, leaving lives there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jodi`s tweet said, quote, "When you learn, teach. When you get, give." Wendy Murphy, what the heck?
MURPHY: Just, can I just go to her jail cell and slap her in the face?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. You`re not allowed.
MURPHY: If I were Maya Angelou`s lawyer -- If I were Maya Angelou`s lawyer, I would sue her for emotional distress just for fun.
I don`t understand. This proves her sociopathy. Jodi Arias does not have a conscience; she doesn`t understand how to function. She has no clue. That is probably why she should die, even though I`m against the death penalty. With no heart, no conscience, I think we should just put her out of her own misery.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And a quick comment from Kara, New York. You`ve been waiting such a long time. Karen, New York.
CALLER: Yes. Hi, Jane, how are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good.
CALLER: OK, I have a comment about Juan Martinez. I believe that he has a very tough job. He did the best he can. Very heartfelt in that he felt for the Travis family. He was fighting for Travis. And I don`t understand how Jodi gets to do Twitter and how she gets to do these interviews. She`s a convicted murderer. She shouldn`t be having these, you know...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, very quickly -- Adam Swickle, 10 seconds, it`s a constitutional right of hers at this stage.
SWICKLE: Absolutely, it is a constitutional right. But I`ve got to tell you, whether for the defense or the prosecution, it`s out of control what she`s actually saying and who she`s quoting. And she does have a constitutional right to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she says, "When you learn, teach. When you get, give." Well, she gave, and you know what she gave. Twenty-nine stab wounds, a slit throat, a shot to the face. A stab to the heart. Now, will she get? That is what we will stay on top of. We will find out whether she is going to be put to death if there is a retrial starting in July. We`re going to keep you updated.
Developments every day right here. This case is not over. It is only just begun.
And up next, another romance ends in death. Did Caryn Kelley pull a trigger in a drunken rage? Did her very handsome boyfriend take his own life?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: He took the handle and he pointed it to his head. "You want to shoot me, you want to shoot me?"
I go, "Don`t do this, it`s loaded. Don`t do this, it`s loaded."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you get the gun from?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARYN KELLEY, ON TRIAL FOR MANSLAUGHTER: The gun went off in the house. My boyfriend just died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She gives different versions of the events.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you guys fighting about?
KELLEY: He shot himself. He shot himself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That night, they both drank and they drank a lot.
KELLEY: I have a weapon and you know I`m going to use it.
He was shot in the head with a gun. Oh my God, help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In that room that night there`s only two people.
KELLEY: Oh my God. No, no, my baby. I love you so much. Please no, God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Jury deliberations going on right now as we speak in the trial of this beautiful Florida real estate agent. Could she be the next Jodi Arias?
Get this, she has changed her story about her boyfriend`s shooting death more times than Jodi Arias changed her story. Caryn Kelley is charged with manslaughter with a deadly weapon for the 2011 death of her boyfriend, Phillip Peatross. Caryn called 911 in hysterics after he was shot once in the head in her bedroom. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen to me, did he shoot himself? Yes or no?
KELLEY: No, no, it was like --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who shot him?
KELLEY: (inaudible) -- it was an accident. It was an accident. He put a gun to his head and he goes, "Just let me do it," he was joking but bam it went off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So who shot Phillip Peatross -- him or her? At first Caryn said she didn`t shoot him and he didn`t shoot himself either. She said it was quote, "like a self-defense thing". Then she called it an accident. Then she claimed that Phillip shot himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: He was fighting me, pushing me. "Do you want to shoot me? Do you want to shoot me?" I said don`t do this, it`s loaded. Tell me it`s going to be ok.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, the jury is deliberating Caryn Kelley`s fate right now, right this second. So let`s debate it with our expert panel. What`s the truth, starting with Jon Leiberman?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, this jury, Jane, has a very tough job because there was no clear evidence in this case about who exactly pulled the trigger. This is a case of credibility. On one hand you have Caryn Kelley who told conflicting stories; in one hand, the prosecution put up a medical examiner that said that his findings were consistent with a homicide. But then the defense put up a former medical examiner who said his findings were consistent with a suicide.
So, this is going to come down to credibility and which expert the jury believes and if they believe Caryn Kelley at all. She did not take the stand in her defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Johnson, quickly.
JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s true. She didn`t take the stand, which is why it`s not like Jodi Arias. But there`s also another piece of evidence that came in which is a huge victory for the defense that he had threatened suicide before. And his ex-wife testified to that. He was actually committed for doing that, involuntarily. So I think that`s a tie breaker. I see a "not guilty".
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you know, there is a factor, another factor in here that is different than Jodi Arias. It`s alcohol. That wasn`t really a factor in the Jodi Arias case. Travis was a Mormon and he didn`t drink. And Jodi was a Mormon so hypothetically, she didn`t drink, either. Who knows?
Neighbors described Caryn Kelley as a partier. Although she was not given a blood alcohol test the night the crime occurred, she seemed very intoxicated in the cell phone video taken at the scene. Meanwhile Phillip, the victim registered a blood alcohol level of .11, that`s above the legal limit of .08.
Caryn`s attorney says that both she and Phillip had been drinking hard that night. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: He was talking about leaving and I said don`t leave, don`t drive drunk, you`re stupid if you leave. And he came back and I go "don`t drive drunk". And I said "If you come back in the house. I have a weapon. You know I`m going to use it. You`re coming to my house" and I don`t know who it is.
So I went to bed and all of a sudden, I wake up in the middle of the night and someone`s in my house. And I said, "Phillip, you know I have a weapon. Don`t do this." I was like hey, "Don`t come near me." And he was like "Don`t, you`re not." And he put it to his head, "You`re going to shoot me? You`re going to shoot me?" And it went off. Oh my God, I didn`t ever mean to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, clearly alcohol a factor. So let`s debate it. Could it be that Kelley`s story changed so very much because she was in a black out? When you are that drunk, you don`t remember exactly. Your whole recollection of things is completely fuzzy. Let`s debate it with our expert panel starting with Wendy Murphy.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, you know Jane, I actually have a bit more sympathy for her than Jodi Arias. And by the way, at my Web site, wendymurphylaw.com, I have a brand new article on the Arias trial. I hope folks will go see it.
I actually have more sympathy for her, not that I think people should get drunk at that level, much less get drunk and then pull a gun out. But I do think that when you are drunk and you`re making statements about what happened, the reason there`s usually some truth in there is you don`t have the presence of mind to lie strategically to make up a story that you know is going to cover your butt if you get in trouble with the police.
So I do think there was a scuffle. You know, DNA from both was on the gun which is why they don`t know exactly what happened. And some of the discrepancies I think led to the defense theory that this was --
M1: Oh look at this.
MURPHY: -- more of an accident.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s sleeping on the interrogation table. She`s sleeping. Ok, that doesn`t look good. That looks like some kind of a rock star caught in Hollywood after leaving a club at 4:00 in the morning -- and this, wow. Again, you eventually see her lying on the table sleeping. Wow.
Like Jodi Arias, Caryn Kelley changed her story several times. And the only thing we know for sure is that Phillip Peatross died of a single gunshot wound to the head. Listen as she tells several conflicting versions of events.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he shoot himself? Yes or no?
KELLEY: No, no -- it was like a self defense --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who shot him?
KELLEY: -- thing and then it was an accident. It was an accident.
I heard somebody coming in my house. "I have a weapon and you know I`m going to use it. And you`re coming in my house" and I don`t know who it is.
He put a gun to his head. He said "Just let me do it." He was joking, but bam, it went off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman, the jury is still deliberating. Look at this handsome man. Just because she`s drunk doesn`t mean that she`s not responsible.
LEIBERMAN: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean he`s not here to defend himself. He can`t say what happened. She`s drunk out of her mind. Does that mean she gets a pass?
LEIBERMAN: No, absolutely not. Of course, you don`t get a pass. And that`s what the jury has just begun deliberating. I think it`s going to take a little while, I really do in this case. And keep in mind, she`s not charged with murder, she`s charged with manslaughter. So it`s a lower barrier here that this jury has to consider.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, one thing I will say -- go ahead.
JOHNSON: Well, nobody refuted. You know, she said that she thought he had left the house, she ordered him out and that the alarm went off and she thought it was an intruder and she took her gun out. She`s in her home. This is very different than Jodi Arias. She didn`t go to the danger, the danger came to her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here is another factor, after he was shot, she calls 911. She doesn`t go away into the desert and bury the gun and have a canoodle with another guy. She`s hysterically pleading for help. Let`s listen. Could that be a mitigator?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: Come quick. Come. You can help him. Baby, baby. Oh my God, I don`t know what to do. I don`t know. Help him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. Exactly what happened?
KELLEY: Hurry. Just get somebody here quick. He was shot in the head with a gun. Come on honey. Oh my God. Baby.
Listen, I`m telling he has got a gunshot to the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? When you take guns and alcohol and you get people really drunk and then you put a gun in their midst, who knows what is going to happen? And they may not even know. She might not even know exactly what happened. That`s probably why she changed her story so many times because when you are that drunk you can be in a black out and you don`t even know.
Yes, I think the tragedy here is that there was alcohol and a gun in the same place with two people. Had they had an argument and had been drunk and didn`t have a gun, then they would have just had an argument and woke up the next day with bad hangovers.
I know. I`m 18 years sober. I used to wake up with bad hangovers two decades ago, even 19 years ago, even 18.1 years ago. But I`m so glad I didn`t have a gun lying there because if I was in a blackout and I had an argument with somebody, who knows what I would have done? So it`s a lesson, really about the dangers of drinking and wielding. We talk drinking and driving, but drinking and wielding is another big problem.
Ok. On the other side, the big, big trial of the day -- pre-trial decisions that are blockbusters -- we are talking George Zimmerman.
Stay right there -- the very latest on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he look hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t see him. I want to go out there. I don`t know what`s going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody`s calling for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re sending --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he`s yelling help?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What is your --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More wacky, bizarre behavior as former child star Amanda Bynes goes to court like this. Look at that hair. She faces -- it`s a wig -- a slew of charges in New York after allegedly throwing a marijuana bong out the window of her 36th floor apartment. Good thing I wasn`t walking down there, I could have been killed.
The "Hairspray" star denies wrong doing claiming everybody is lying, everybody. Now, she plans to sue her apartment complex and the cops of New York City. You know, whatever she`s going through, I hope she gets the help she needs and a good hairdresser.
More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN CRUMP, LAWYER FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: Trayvon Martin did not have a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hoodie has nothing to do with it.
CRUMP: Did not get out of the car to chase anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The court is going to deny the motion at the risk of cutting your argument short. And I apologize for that. I understand the case law and the rules of the court.
CRUMP: Did not shoot and kill anybody.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ON TRIAL FOR DEATH OF TRAYVON MARTIN: I kept yelling "help, help, help".
CRUMP: Trayvon Martin is not on trial.
MARK O`MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It has been said by Mr. Crump that this is the most significant civil rights trial of the century.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A big, big loss tonight for neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin sparking national protest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice --
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice --
Crowd: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Zimmerman claims he shot the 17-year-old in self- defense. That he only pulled the trigger after he was attacked by the unarmed teenager. But Trayvon`s parents say George Zimmerman pursued their young son because he was profiling the teenager.
Well, today the judge made it clear she will not put the victim Trayvon Martin on trial. As of right now guns, previous fights and any past drug use by Trayvon will not get in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`MARA: The drugs and the history of his chronicity -- his chronic use of drugs and his (inaudible) fighting and to a certain extent, his guns is completely relevant to the theory of defense. So how could you keep us from arguing our theory of defense?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because the rules of evidence keep you from doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to Jean Casarez who was in court for today`s fireworks. Jean, the judge said no to George Zimmerman`s request to delay the trial. So now it`s set to start in just two weeks. What were the other big blockbuster evidence rulings?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: The defense asked for an inspection of the scene, for the jury to go out to the apartment complex, the judge was defiant saying no. Number one because the conditions are not the same; Number Two, because anybody living in the apartment complex could take a picture of the jury and put it on social media. You just can`t replicate it. So defense lost on that.
The one issue that I think is interesting is in regard to all of this the character evidence for Trayvon Martin. The prosecution now is going to have to walk a fine line because if they would open up the door to allow the defense to bring any of it in, the defense I think will make as strong of an argument as they can. But the judge was defiant in that issue, too.
This is a narrowly focused trial on the events of February 26, 2012 at that apartment complex.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think she wants to put some firm boundaries on it because it`s a very emotional case and she doesn`t want it to turn into a referendum for anybody with an agenda. But you are right, if the prosecution, the state starts talking about oh, Trayvon was a great guy, hypothetically, it could open the door perhaps for some of the stuff that she kept out now to come in because then they, the defense had a right to say well, we have evidence that maybe not.
Trayvon`s family furious that George Zimmerman wants to portray Trayvon as an angry young man claiming there`s a video and text messages that show Trayvon was prone to fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`MARA: He actually had texted about having lost the first round of a fight because somebody had gotten on top of him much the way he did to George Zimmerman. And he also texted or might have been a Facebook post that he had won a fight because he punched somebody in the nose at first, which is, again, exactly what we suggest the forensic evidence supports.
Presumably, however, you`ll keep your mind open when we present to you the videos of him at these fights, not just as a pure spectator, but refereeing one and being involved in taping one where two guys of his are beating up a homeless guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natalie Jackson, Trayvon Martin family attorney joining us from Sanford, Florida; and I thank you for joining us. What is your response to, you heard it, the attorney for George Zimmerman saying that Trayvon, the dead young man was prone to violence?
NATALIE JACKSON, TRAYVON MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, thanks for having me Jane. One of the major jury instructions that the judge will give the jury once it`s selected is that what the attorneys say is not evidence in a case. I think, just because Mark O`Mara says it, it doesn`t make it evidence in this case. The jury will be able -- they will be instructed to consider only the evidence in this case when deciding the guilt or innocence of George Zimmerman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you know of any such video where he`s involved in either refereeing a fight or video taping something while two friends are beating up a homeless guy? I mean is this -- where did this come from?
JACKSON: We don`t know. We don`t know anything that you don`t know. I think many people are confused on our role in this case. We don`t work with the state attorney or we don`t work with the prosecutors. They don`t give us any information. The prosecutors have made it clear that they`re going to try this case based on the evidence in court and not in the court of public opinion. And I think the judge has made it clear that she`s not going to allow Trayvon`s life to be on trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side, we`re going to talk about some of the other issues that came up today, specifically the issue of marijuana -- in or out?
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Ernesto Hemingway, I love you. Jack-Jack, you`re so cute. You`re a little baby, aren`t you? And Poppy says hey, what about me? I`m pretty cute, too, aren`t I with my pink ribbons. And McShane & Murphy, what a pair -- we love you, McShane & Murphy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O`MARA: There is evidence where he suggests to one of the witnesses that he had marijuana with him on the way up. He had hidden it from his father who was going to search him to see if he had whatever he was bringing up here. So he hid it discreetly where it couldn`t be found, and that he had smoked it while he was up here. That`s evidence that would be presented to the jury, potentially. And that he was out of pot then and may have been looking for more up here in Sanford.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it. The defense attorney you just heard from there says that THC which is an ingredient in marijuana, was in Trayvon`s system and claims he brought it up there to Sanford. Just quickly, yes or no? Should marijuana be part of this trial starting with Wendy Murphy? Wendy Murphy, yes or no?
MURPHY: Maybe. It depends on the level. But, you know, I`m not sure it helps the prosecution because most people on pot sit down and eat munchies, you know, they`re not violent.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to get the rest of the answers on the other side. Should the judge have let the pot in? Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Expert panel, raise your hand if you think marijuana should be part of this case, briefly? Yes or no, raise your hand? Ok, nobody thinks so. Only one.
JOHNSON: I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank our very special guest -- ok, you`ve been outvoted, though -- Natalie Jackson, we`ll be seeing more of you. Nancy`s next.
END
