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PIERS MORGAN LIVE
Storm Chasers Killed; Interview with Jesse Ventura; Senator Frank Lautenberg Dies at 89; Man Stung by 40,000 Bees; Oral Sex, HPV and Cancer
Aired June 3, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, breaking news. Raging wildfire in Colorado. Desperate residents running for their lives with 100 homes in the path of the flames. We'll have all the latest on that and on the powerhouse fire in California that has scorched 29,000 acres so far.
Also, death in Tornado Alley. Nobody knows the power of a twister better than storm chasers who put themselves in harm's way to save others' lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to be right here in front of me, it's coming down right now. Very, very, very low to the ground with higher vortex coming down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: At least 18 people were killed in that storm in El Reno, Oklahoma, including three veteran storm chasers. I'll talk exclusively to members of their team and to their families.
Plus, the shocking death of a Texas man who was stung by 40,000 killer bees. His grieving daughter joins me.
And on "The Grill" tonight, a man never shy about saying what he thinks. He says the government treats American citizens like slaves. He says he would close Guantanamo and give it back to Cuba. And he says he may run for president in 2016 on a ticket with -- wait for it -- Howard Stern. Is Jessie Ventura serious? I'll ask him live on "The Grill."
So a lot to get to tonight but I'll begin with the tragic deaths of storm chasers, Tim Samaras, his son Paul and his longtime chase partner, Carl Young. They were killed on Friday in a tornado in El Reno, Oklahoma. The twister had winds of at least 136 miles an hour and reportedly took a sudden left turn, trapping the veteran storm chasers.
Joining me now is Bob Young, Carl Young's father, and Sal Lucido, is Carl's stepfather. Thank you so much to both of you for joining me. I said at the start, how terribly sorry I am about the dreadful loss of Carl and indeed his two friends.
If I could start with you, Bob, you're Carl's father. When did you hear about what had happened?
BOB YOUNG, CARL YOUNG'S FATHER: Carl was killed Friday afternoon and I didn't hear about it until Sunday morning.
MORGAN: Wow. You obviously knew that there were these storms going on, you knew that he was a regular seasoned and experienced storm chaser. Did you fear --
MORGAN: -- that this may happen one day?
YOUNG: I was always concerned. Because not only did they want to get pictures of the tornado for scientific research, they wanted to put probes that could measure all of the different things with tornadoes which meant that they had to place these probes in the path of the tornado and get out of there before the tornado hit.
MORGAN: Sal, you were Carl's stepfather. Both of you men knew him a very, very long time. What is your reaction to what's happened? Because many people are saying look, it's just too dangerous for people to do this. Others are saying the work they do is so important, it must be allowed to continue.
SAL LUCIDO, CARL YOUNG'S STEPFATHER: The work must continue and of course as parents we were horrified of this accident but we do also want people to understand, for us as parents, to have our son go out on this is like sending your son or daughter out to war, and this took place every year, but this was Carl's passion and Tim's passion, and they were professionals, and we respected that. But we feel as any parent would, their son or daughter going out to war.
MORGAN: Bob, tell me about Carl. What kind of man was he?
YOUNG: He was a very gentle, very caring son, and I was very close to him, and his passion was doing this research, his passion for many years was the weather phenomenon, and he started chasing with Tim 11 years ago and he loved it. They worked well together and he looked forward to it. He knew it was dangerous. I knew it was dangerous. And we just hoped that everything would be OK and this time, we still don't know the details, but something happened and they did not survive.
MORGAN: What has been suggested, Bob, is that there may have been a sudden dramatic turn in the path of the tornado, and that's what caught them by surprise. Is that what you're hearing?
YOUNG: Yes. There are two different versions of it. We talked to the sheriff and he said that the debris field was a half mile long of the vehicle, and the engine of the car was found a half mile from where the remainder of the car came to rest. We feel that they were paralleling the tornado, heading eastward, and the tornado made an abrupt turn and they for one reason or another couldn't get out of it, or the tornado dropped satellite tornadoes which popped up and they just had no chance, and it was over quickly.
Evidently they did deploy three probes which were found, and they were on. So this leads me to believe that they set up the probes and then something appeared out of nowhere and they tried to escape and they couldn't make it. Because the probes were not turned off.
MORGAN: Sal, how would you like Carl to be remembered?
LUCIDO: First and foremost, as our son, and beyond that, we would like to thank everyone in Oklahoma and all the news media. They have been fair on this for the most part. They understand that these are not teenagers going out, these are adult mature, experienced scientists doing what they love.
It isn't something perhaps you and I would do, but this is something that this is their passion and they wanted to make a difference. We received a phone call not only from the sheriff which Bob mentioned, but also from one of their state senators, Senator -- I believe it's McClearly (ph), and he stated that he understands the danger and he wanted to personally thank us for having our son being there even though we're from California, because he knows that we -- that Carl and his team saved thousands of Oklahomans' lives.
MORGAN: Yes, Bob --
YOUNG: They were the first two -- yes.
MORGAN: I was just going to pick up on that point.
YOUNG: We're here.
MORGAN: I was going to pick up on that point, Bob, and just say that there's no doubt that Carl and his teammates did save countless lives. I mean, they managed through these probes to increase the warning periods for these tornadoes, I understand, which in itself would have certainly saved lives.
YOUNG: That is correct.
MORGAN: I mean he very much is a hero.
YOUNG: Yes, he is. Yes. Yes, he's my loving son and I miss him. And he's coming home to Lake Tahoe, where he will be -- we'll have funeral services on Saturday and he will be buried after that. And I will always remember him as a very loving son and very caring son.
MORGAN: Bob and Sal, I'm so sorry for your loss. It's heartbreaking to listen to you both talking about such a brave young man, who really did risk his life repeatedly for other people. And my heart just goes out to you and to all your family, both your families, and just I really -- I'm at a loss what to say to make it any better other than he does through his legacy, he will continue to save lives. The work that he and the team did with Tim and the others will definitely continue to save lives, and that can be a matter of great pride to both of you.
YOUNG: Yes, it will be.
LUCIDO: It will be, and thank you, Piers. We really appreciate the professionalism of everyone. Everyone's been very kind and they definitely understand the situation that we are in. And Carl was a very compassionate person and he gave up his life for that compassion to saving others. So we'll remember that. And thank you.
YOUNG: Thank you, Piers, for having us this opportunity.
MORGAN: You know, it's funny what you said, Sal. This is not something I could ever do, storm chasing. I don't have it in me to do that. I think it's an amazingly courageous thing that these people do and the more I've learned about it since I've lived in America -- we just don't have this problem where I come from, we don't have tornadoes and stuff in Britain.
And the more I've researched this, the more extraordinary it seems to me that these people, when others are racing away to save their own lives, these guys like Carl, like Tim and the others, they go into these storms knowing that they could be killed at any time. I think it's a remarkable thing.
LUCIDO: That is true. And like you, Piers, I couldn't do it either. So I give credit for those who can. And we're very supportive of them and I want people to recognize these are young adults. This is their profession. They have lots of experience behind them and these things happen.
For Carl and Tim, the two buddies, for this to happen to them, it just -- the only logical thing we can embrace is that there were multiple vortexes or tornadoes that sprung up and basically ambushed them. So again to us, this is a warzone and this is what happened.
MORGAN: Incredibly sad. Bob and Sal, thank you both so much for joining me.
LUCIDO: Thank you.
YOUNG: Thank you for your time. We appreciate it.
MORGAN: Joining me now exclusively, four men who worked closely with Tim Samaras and his team, Ed Grubb, only left Oklahoma on Friday morning to be at home for his daughter's birthday. Ben McMillan, an EMT who pulled 15 people from the rubble after the May 20th twister. Meteorologist Matt Grzych and Tony Laubach, who was just two miles from where Tim's team were on Friday night.
Thank you, gentlemen, all for joining me. Obviously a devastating loss to all of you and to the team.
Let me start with you, if I may, Ed. You're a navigator for TWISTEX. Tell me about the three men who so tragically lost their lives.
ED GRUBB, TWISTEX NAVIGATOR: I've had the privilege of chasing with Carl and with Tim and with Paul now since 2009, and they were always outgoing, energetic, willing to share every bit of information that they could possibly share with not only us, but with anybody else who would pull up alongside us on the road, who were afraid of what was coming at them, and they did it in a very, very good manner that was very well understood.
I know they were both excellent forecasters. Paul generally rode with Tony Laubach and myself in one of the (INAUDIBLE) vehicles that followed. He was a tremendous photographer and a great videographer, creative beyond anybody of his years that I've seen before. And the three guys were just incredible friends. The compatibility amongst all our team was always there.
It was just a stunning kind of thing to listen to and I myself didn't know confirmed-wise the situation until early Sunday morning myself.
MORGAN: Ben, I actually spoke to you by phone on Friday night in the middle of all this. And I've actually got a clip to play. This is from another storm chaser called Brandon Copic. And this is what he told me the same night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRANDON COPIC, STORM CHASER: This is a very powerful storm. I've been chasing for about four to five years now, and I haven't seen anything like it. This is one of those times where I'm just -- it has -- this is the first time I could actually say I feared for my life when this tornado was coming towards me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And, Ben, even though the loss of life at the moment hasn't quite reached the levels of the previous Oklahoma tornado 10 days ago, in terms of power it wasn't quite as powerful but clearly from what people are telling me, including yourself that night, it was a pretty awesome tornado, wasn't it?
BEN MCMILLAN, TWISTEX MEDIC: Yes, Piers. From the winds that we felt -- I felt that they were at the same level of what I felt in the Moore tornado. The EF scale rates tornadoes based on the damage that they cause, not the actual winds themselves in most cases, so we may never know how strong the winds actually were in this tornado, but in my opinion, the winds with this storm were at or above the level of what I experienced in the Moore tornado.
MORGAN: Matt, you've taken the season off because you've got a young child. It does raise this question which I'm sure a lot of people are thinking about the families and the wives and children of storm chasers, about how much pressure you guys all come under to give this kind of thing up. How do you respond to that?
MATT GRZYCH, TWISTEX METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it's a tough thing. My wife responded to this, asking me if I would retire from storm chasing, actually. It's tough. It's hard on the family. We get on the road for 60 to 80 days a year and we're putting our lives at risk every time we're out there. And we never knew -- we knew but we never thought this kind of thing would happen to us or our team. So it's very tough.
MORGAN: Tony, you've obviously been a seasoned storm chaser for a long time. Will this put you off? Have you guys talked about this as potentially a reason not to continue?
TONY LAUBACH, TWISTEX METEOROLOGIST: In terms of the safety of it, I mean, especially when you have somebody as well respected and as safe as Tim was, it leads you to believe that it doesn't take a moment of recklessness or stupidity to get yourself in a situation. But it hasn't sprung from my mind for a second to give up chasing.
I know if I did that, Tim would come down and beat me with my tripod if I -- if I quit over this. So we will be back out there and hope we can continue in some aspect the work that they have left behind.
MORGAN: Well, it's incredibly bold work and although it's a terrible triple loss I know to what you've been doing, their legacy will live on and I commend you guys for the bravery that you show all the time you go out into these things. And thank you for joining me tonight.
LAUBACH: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: When we come back, the latest on the Colorado wildfire and the life of a storm chaser. Why do they risk it all to rush into storms?
MORGAN: Denver meteorologist Mike Nelson worked with storm chaser Tim Samaras and said he died doing what he loved doing with people that he loved. Mike is chief meteorologist for KMJH. He joins me now.
Also the latest on our breaking news, the Colorado wildfire is threatening 100 homes tonight.
Welcome to you, Mike. Again, to you, my sincere condolences on the loss of your great friend, Tim Samaras. What is your reaction to what happened? It's so unusual to hear about the death of storm chasers.
MIKE NELSON, CHIEF METEOROLOGIST, KMJH: Well, Tim was probably the most brilliant and most cautious storm chaser out there. That's what makes this particularly unusual, because within the storm chasing community, especially after the movie Twister came out and the recent storm chaser series, there have been a lot of people who have gone out and decided they wanted to become storm chasers.
I've known Tim for over two decades. He has been doing this long before it was popular, and he was extremely cautious. He looked at every storm, called off chases if he determined that it was too dangerous. And I think in this case, this was just a very unusual storm that caught them in a spot that could have been any other chaser out there. This thing just made a turn and a hook on it and dropped a tornado where they probably only had a matter of a few seconds if the thing came down upon them.
They earlier had mentioned that they had deployed these special probes, so even to the last, they were putting out the research instruments. They didn't do this just to be cowboys. They did this to save lives. And I think they probably have saved hundreds of lives by improved warnings and better structures that are built to withstand the pressures and forces from tornadoes.
MORGAN: Mike Nelson , stay with me. I want to bring in CNN's Chad Myers now. He was in Oklahoma when that big twister struck on Friday and joins me now live from El Reno in Oklahoma.
Chad, it's one of those things where a lot of people come out after these storms, when they see the storm chasers and say these guys are reckless, they shouldn't be doing it, it's a crazy thing to do. The more I've learned about it, the more heroic these people seem to me. What is your view as a meteorologist? What do they bring scientifically, if you like, to the way that we combat tornadoes?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, let me tell you, there's a 10 percent scientific community, there's a 10 percent meteorology community and an 80 percent "I want to go out and see something, get my adrenaline rush" community that have no idea where the storm is. They don't have a radar in their car, they don't have any kind of wifi working on them. So, they don't even know the direction.
As this storm, as Mike said, as this storm turned hard left, I was two miles to its south. We kept driving to the east away from it thinking okay, we're fine but in fact, we weren't fine. It was only half a mile at the time because it was a wide structure. As I drove around the area today, this damage was over a mile from one side to the other. That was these little fingers that they were talking about, these tiny little extra vortexes that were coming around this multi-vortex large tornado, at least a mile in diameter for this big damage. And the EF-3 is easy. I can even see EF-4 damage with this storm. Weather service is still looking at it. That's for sure.
What these guys are doing for science is giving us 13 minutes' lead time now compared to what was just going to be four to seven minutes' lead time 10 years ago. We know now what a storm will do if it looks like that, then that, because these guys went through it.
Talked to Mike Ayles today. He was the first guy, he was the one really that they made this movie Twister about. He was the one that would drive into the storm to see how big the hail was so they could get the radar right and say okay, that's how big the hail is, if that, then that. And these chasers are heroic. I think about as I was listening to all the conversation today, think about if we didn't have fire jumpers. And you know, we may lose a fire jumper in the future, and you would say why would he ever jump into a fire to put the fire out? That's because he wanted to save people. That's the kind of man that Tim was.
MORGAN: And Chad, on the subject of fires -- I'm going to come back to Mike and talk about what's happening in Colorado, but there is this breaking story both in Colorado and California tonight. Tell me about the California part of this. 29,000 acres have gone up so far. How serious is it?
MYERS: Well, it is still serious. The wind's still shifting 15 to 20 miles per hour, and it's not so much that that's a wind speed that will really fan the flames ahead at five mile jump but because they're moving, they're not actually coming from one direction all day long, the firefighters don't know what side of the fire to jump on to to get out first.
Still 40 percent containment, the winds go down tomorrow, this is a much better situation tomorrow. They do have air tankers, they have helicopter drops, and they are getting a handle on this. Some people are allowed to go back to their houses now, but for awhile this was a very scary fire.
MORGAN: Mike Nelson, coming back to you, tell me about what's happening in Colorado in relation to the fires?
NELSON: Well, today we had 100 degree temperatures on the Eastern Plains. It was in the 90s in Denver and just to the west of Denver in the Evergreen area, which is just up in the foothills, we had about a five-acre wildfire that developed very quickly this afternoon. It's a very heavily populated area, a lot of homes up there in the tall trees. So we had large scale evacuations just to the west of Denver. The fire did not grow to be all that big. We're hoping to get a little bit of rain and higher humidity tomorrow, so that should make it better. But that is a major concern that we have after a pretty dry winter here in Colorado.
MORGAN: Mike Nelson and Chad Myers, thank you both very much indeed.
When we come back, a man who is not afraid to sound off on just about any subject. Jesse Ventura joins me On The Grill.
MORGAN: Now to a man who's done it all. Professional wrestler, actor, governor of Minnesota and perhaps presidential candidate. Who knows? Jesse Ventura is the outspoken author of "DemoCRIPS and Repub - I can't even say it - "ReBLOODlicans: No More Gangs In Government." And Jesse Ventura joins me On the Grill tonight. Jesse, how are you?
JESSE VENTURA, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MINNESOTA: I'm doing good, Piers. How are you? I just got back from Mexico about two weeks ago.
MORGAN: There's been about five stories in the news involving big political scandals recently. Every time I though to myself, I wonder what Jesse Ventura thinks of that. So now is my chance to put you on the grill and go through them.
Let's start with today's development at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has now upheld the police practice of taking DNA samples from people who have been arrested but not convicted of a crime. What is your view?
VENTURA: Well, again, the assault on our Bill of Rights is just astounding that we're allowing the government to destroy all the protections in our country. I do have to confess to you, Piers, as we get into this grilling, I may not be as good as you want because this year when I went to Mexico, I did not watch any television from January 2nd until about two weeks ago, and I still haven't watched the news yet.
MORGAN: Well, I can fill you in on any of the gaps, Jesse. I'm sure it won't take you long.
Let me ask you this. What is the difference -- what is the difference between the police taking a DNA sample and fingerprinting you?
VENTURA: I don't know. You know, I guess because to fingerprint you, aren't they supposed to charge you with a crime? I think that you should have to be charged with a crime before they're allowed to do any of that to you. You know, they need to arrest you and officially charge you with a crime.
MORGAN: Let's just move to Bradley Manning. Bradley Manning, the Wikileaks soldier. There is a 21-year-old soldier who finds all this stuff online, which is obviously supposed to be secret, spills it all to Wikileaks because he believes it's manifestly wrong that the American military is doing all this stuff. Is he a victim of an attack on his own freedom of speech rights, the way that he's being treated?
VENTURA: I do. I think he's a necessary whistleblower. I mean, when bad things happen, certainly we don't like to hear about them, but we certainly need to know about them. And I know the one thing I saw was the particular incident where a helicopter apparently was shooting innocent people down in a street in Iraq and, you know, those are serious things and again I never bad mouth our military because I view many times that the military's victims also.
Whenever there's a war it's because of failed politics. It's the politicians' failure and then you're required to go to war. And many of the wars we're fighting right now I don't think are necessary, especially the Iraq war. It was based upon lies. It was based on untruth and we went into this country, invaded it, overthrew their government and occupied them.
And I've never been in favor of that war from the moment they decided to do it, because there wasn't one Iraqi involved in 9/11 at all, and everything they told us, they never did anything to us. Why would you attack someone who never did anything? (CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: But -- but Jesse, but Jesse. Jesse. On Bradley Manning, though, there's no doubt that some of what he revealed was overtly in the public interest. And he supposed did a lot of wrongdoing by doing so. But what he should have done, I would argue, is done this the proper way. Gone to his commanding officer, said what he'd seen.
MORGAN: If the commanding officer didn't do anything, then discharge himself from the Army and apply under the Freedom of Information for specific details about what he'd seen. Why wouldn't you encourage people to do it that way?
VENTURA: Well, maybe so, you know. I can't -- I can't think for Bradley Manning. I can't imagine what went through his mind when he saw some of the horrific things that he felt were that horrible and that the public needed to know about. But I also counter and say what's the deal when our government labels top secret literally millions of documents a year, we're not allowed to know about.
Now I understand having been in the military there are certain things you can't reveal, but after the fact, after it's all over, everything should be revealed, in my opinion, and I state this because as a taxpayer, I'm entitled to know everything my government does because I pay for it, and I'm entitled to know what my money is spent on.
MORGAN: Right, but there -- but there is an argument and you would again know this from a military point of view. And I've got military in my family. That the time for all the information to be revealed should be after a conflict, should be after there is no ongoing operational risk to the troops on the ground, or to diplomats or to whoever it may be.
There's no doubt that Bradley Manning, given the scale of what he released, put a lot of people's lives potentially into danger. Where do you draw the line?
VENTURA: I don't know. I haven't read everything he released, but then again, if you're seeing something that you deem to be murder, how do you sit on that? You took an oath.
MORGAN: Well, I -- I agree but if --
VENTURA: And you have to remember, in the military --
MORGAN: Jesse, there are 700,000 documents. Clearly a lot of that --
VENTURA: In the military --
MORGAN: -- did not involved murder.
VENTURA: OK. But in the military, you take an oath, you take an oath to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And within that, that's what you take an oath to. And I can't answer for what Bradley Manning thought. I -- he -- maybe he potentially put people in danger, maybe not, but sometimes who knows what compels a person and motivates a person to be a whistleblower, but thank goodness that we have some because, you know, our government is not truthful to us that often.
They're very misleading at times and they're very political and they're not honest.
MORGAN: Do you agree --
VENTURA: Somebody out there needs to keep them honest.
MORGAN: Do you agree with the Department of Justice and Eric Holder, the attorney general, targeting journalists, you know, going after the Associated Press or the FOX News journalists for information about potential leaks?
VENTURA: Well, first of all, I think that we -- we got bigger fish to fry. We've got people down in Guantanamo who haven't been charged with anything --
MORGAN: Well, let's come to that. Let's come to -- but Jesse.
VENTURA: They're -- well, they're literally holding them until they die.
MORGAN: Right. We'll come to Guantanamo. But here's my point. If you're going to defend Bradley Manning as a great freedom fighter, revealing information that should be in the public interest and he should --
VENTURA: I'm not saying that.
MORGAN: No, I'm saying if you take that position, though, if anybody takes that position, that he shouldn't be prosecuted for what he did, how could you then justify the targeting of journalists who are revealing equally valuable information in the public interest?
VENTURA: I fully agree. You don't get no argument from me on that, Piers.
MORGAN: So they shouldn't be doing it.
VENTURA: They should not be. They should not be doing it, absolutely not. There's another example of these two parties and our administrations completely ignoring the Bill of Rights. You know, it's about time we hold them to the fabric of our country, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. And enough of this, allowing them to simply run roughshod over the very document that defines the United States of America.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break, Jesse. Let's come back while you're nicely boiled up now. We'll talk to you about targeting right- wing groups by the IRS. Pretty sure I know what you're going to say about this. And I look forward to hearing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VENTURA: You know, they always say, Piers, in the private sector, competition is good, right? Isn't that what we always hear? Well, how come competition isn't good for president? Why has it been 20 years since we've seen any third voice in a presidential debate? Because these two parties will -- they make the rules and they will not let anyone else win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Jesse Ventura on this show last year. The former governor of Minnesota has been hinting about a presidential run in 2016. Even if doesn't that mean to be more political his opinions, you don't Jesse Ventura. He's back with me now on "The Grill."
Jesse, I mean, are you seriously thinking still about potentially running?
VENTURA: Well, 2016 would be the year to do it, Piers, because you don't -- as an independent, you don't want an incumbent, so the office will be wide open. That's what I looked at in Minnesota.
And I'll tell you right now what I would run on. I would run with no political party and I would give the people of the United States of America the opportunity to elect their first president since George Washington, the father of our country, who does not belong to a political party. And I believe the time is right for that in 2016.
I believe on that issue alone, you would have a great chance to win the presidency because there are that many people out there who are completely disgusted with both of these political parties, and would have the chance to make history and elect since George Washington, with no party affiliation, if Jesse Ventura ran.
MORGAN: What did you think of the IRS targeting right-wing groups?
VENTURA: Well, first of all, let me state one thing I would do is abolish the income tax and go to a national sales tax, and then you wouldn't even have the IRS, or you would reverse their role and you would make them the watchdog of the government to make sure they spend our money properly.
So having said that, I don't particularly like -- when I got targeted before, way back politically when I was mayor of Brooklyn Park. I got audited two years in a row and came out fine. In fact, at one point they owed me money but I never got it because I had to pay my accountant who took care of the business for me.
The IRS is one place where I don't go represent myself, Piers, because you -- I'd get in too much trouble there. But I don't particularly like the IRS.
MORGAN: I don't think anybody likes the IRS. That's not really the point of the IRS, is it? Nobody likes paying taxes.
Talking of getting into trouble, I want to talk to you about a slightly sensitive matter. And I know you're going to be careful what you say here. But you're currently involved in a lawsuit against the wife of the slain sniper, Chris Kyle. He was of course gunned down --
MORGAN: -- at a shooting range by a troubled former Marine.
MORGAN: You had a defamation lawsuit against Chris Kyle when he was still alive for allegations --
MORGAN: -- he made in his book about a brawl that you had allegedly been involved with, and you've now decided --
MORGAN: -- to continue the action even though he's died. Why have you continued it?
VENTURA: Well, because it's always been about clearing my name and getting back my reputation. This never happened, and the only way that I can do that, Piers, is to go into court and let's present the evidence and let a jury and a judge determine whether this incident occurred, because it did not happen. So I feel totally fine with going to court over it and I will continue to pursue that, because how am I going to run for political office if I do decide to do that nationally with this hanging over my head.
I was accused by this gentleman of committing treason. That's very serious. In fact, it's a capital offense in the military. And I want to clear my name because the event and everything written about it did not happen. It never occurred.
MORGAN: But Jesse --
VENTURA: And the only place I can do that is to exercise my right to go to court. It is not about money. It's about restoring my reputation.
MORGAN: But do you not feel slightly uncomfortable about the fact you're now suing his widow? VENTURA: No. Because an insurance company is paying for the whole thing anyway. It's the insurance company of the book publisher. It has nothing to do with me. I just have to sue her simply because she is now the estate since he has passed away. It's just a legal procedure you have to go through because of a death. I would have continued this lawsuit all the way to court because I have to clear my reputation after what he did to it.
MORGAN: Jesse Ventura, always good to talk to you. Thanks for joining me.
VENTURA: Thank you, Piers. I appreciate you letting me clear that up for you.
MORGAN: Tonight's "Keeping America Great" a man who was a truly member of the greatest generation, New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg, died today at the age of 89. He was the Senate's last surviving World War II veteran and a man who friends and foes alike called a fighter for the causes he believed in.
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GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I think the best way to describe Frank Lautenberg and the way he would probably want to be described to all of you today is as a fighter. Senator Lautenberg fought for the things he believed in. Sometimes he just fought because he liked to.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: He came out of his sick bed in a wheelchair to vote on gun legislation. He agreed with 90 percent of the American people, if people had severe mental problems or were felons shouldn't be able to buy a gun.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Frank Lautenberg was as loyal as he was patriotic. So I will particularly miss the last World War II veteran who serves in the United States Senate.
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MORGAN: Funeral services for Senator Lautenberg will be held Wednesday in New York City.
Coming up, a Texas man stung to death by killer bees. His daughter tried desperately to save his life. I'll talk to her live.
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TANYA GOODWIN, VICTIM'S DAUGHTER: He was purple. He had numerous, thousands and thousands of bee stings on his face and arms.
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MORGAN: A shocking death. A Texas man stung to death by a swarm of killer bees. Within minutes, they stung Larry Goodwin thousands of times and Tanya Goodwin, Larry's daughter, joins me now.
Tanya, I'm so sorry about this dreadful tragedy that's befallen you and your family, with your father. Tell me exactly what happened. Why was he near these bees to start with?
GOODWIN: He was shredding a field for the lady.
MORGAN: So he was removing I think some brush piles for his neighbor, is that right?
GOODWIN: No. He was -- he was not moving any brush. He was shredding the field. And he never did go -- he got by the brush pile, but he never did move any of the brush.
MORGAN: Do you know what agitated these bees because there were 40,000 of them?
GOODWIN: I'm sure the vibration of the tractor and the shredder.
MORGAN: And what was the first that you know something awful was happening?
GOODWIN: Me and my sister were leaving to take our kids to a park and my sister had to pull her car over and she went over to the tractor because he went on the tractor and I seen an ambulance and I was wondering why the ambulance was coming. And then when I seen her jumping up and down, saying she couldn't find my dad, I knew something was wrong.
So I got out of the van and I ran down the driveway and around the street to see if I could see him anywhere by the house. And he was laying at the corner of the house and we got into him and he was -- he was already purple. We did manage --
MORGAN: Your father I believe suffer --
GOODWIN: We did manage --
MORGAN: I'm sorry. Do continue, Tanya.
GOODWIN: We did manage to move in and get him a little bit out of the bees. And finally, the EMT and the police officer came in and with a fumigator and fumigated the bees so we can move him and get him on a backboard and moved him out of the yard.
MORGAN: It must have been an absolutely terrifying thing to have witnessed. Do you know --
GOODWIN: Oh, yes, it was very horrible.
MORGAN: Do they believe it was the combined effect of the stings themselves that killed your father?
MORGAN: Absolutely appalling. GOODWIN: Yes, he went into anaphylactic shock.
MORGAN: Yes. And were you yourself stung?
GOODWIN: Yes, it was.
MORGAN: Were you stung? I believe that two of the neighbors were stung quite badly. Were you yourself?
GOODWIN: Yes. I have probably anywhere from 15-20 bee stings. Me and my sister and my nephew received bee stings.
MORGAN: I'm certainly appalled. Tanya, I'm so sorry for your loss. And thank you for joining me tonight.
GOODWIN: Thank you.
MORGAN: What a dreadful story. I want to bring in Dr. Steven Lamm. He's director of Men's Health for NYU Medical Center. He's here with more on that killer bee attack and the other big medical story of the day, Michael Douglas' cancer and what may have caused it.
Dr. Lamm, thanks for joining me. Just on the bee sting issue. There's the kind of thing that you sort of fear, but it never seems to really happen quite in this way. It could happen anywhere in America. What is the best advice to people if they're near. This kind of bee collection.
DR. STEVEN LAMM, DIRECTOR OF MEN'S HEALTH, NYU MEDICAL CENTER: I mean, these bees are extremely irritable. They get agitated very quickly. Noise, barking, anything. And they will start to attack in large numbers. It's the volume of the attack. The density of the attack. Thousands of bites. You get venom injected into you. You have an anaphylactic reaction, you only need one bee to do that.
But just sheer volume causes your blood vessels to dilate. You're done. You've got to run and you've got to run faster than the bees, which you can. You've got to run long distances. These bees will follow you for about a quarter of a mile. You keep running, don't jump into water. They'll wait for you. Cover your head. Don't swat -- try to swat them away. Just run away.
MORGAN: Let's turn to the other story, the Michael Douglas story. He gave this interview to the "Guardian" newspaper back in Britain in which for the first time, he suggested, pretty strongly if you read the transcript, that what had caused his throat cancer was oral sex.
It's slightly backtracked today. But if you read the transcript, that is clearly what he said. He was asked directly could it be linked to your smoking or drinking or partying. He said no, no, this type of cancer is caused by cunnilingus, oral sex, as he said.
MORGAN: Is he right? LAMM: Well, he may be right. I mean, about 70 percent of the new cancers, oral pharyngeal, tonsilar back of the tongue, are actually caused by, you know, the HPV virus that people acquire through oral sex. In the old days, it was primary alcohol and cigarettes. But they seem to occur in the front of the mouth, the tongue, the cheeks.
This is a special, increasing, very scary, new type of cancer because of the prevalence of oral sex in this country or any country. And the good news is that it's a little easier to treat.
MORGAN: Can you be vaccinated like you would anything else?
LAMM: Well, this is very -- that's why this is so critically important. You know, we have an HPV vaccine that, you know, young women are given and now an increasing number of young men are given to reduce the likelihood of HPV infection which results in cervical cancer. But now there's going to be a push to determine whether or not the same vaccine will also be helpful.
It's not proven yet. But it's a very strong suggestion. The problem is that sooner or later most young people will acquire HPV infection through sexual contact. Ninety percent will clear it so nothing really happens. But the small number that -- that are unlucky enough to have, let's say, HPV 16, one of the 40 to 100 different variants that are associated with cancer, you know, they're going to be in trouble.
Now the problem is that, you know, with oral cancer, there is no symptoms. You don't even know you have this and the latency period, the time from the acquisition of this virus to the time you actually get sick could be 15 to 30 years. So if Mr. Douglas did acquire this it could have been 15 to 30 years ago.
MORGAN: Right, and that had been ruled out, his wife Katherine Zeta Jones, as being potentially a carrier for this.
LAMM: Well, you know, this is a real serious issue because not only do you have to worry about who's transmitting it to you but now a person who has an oral pharyngeal cancer the HPV type, he's potentially contagious to his spouse. Fortunately, the incidence of that transmission is very low, according to the most latest studies which you've heard about a week ago.
MORGAN: His spokesman said Michael Douglas did not say cunnilingus, oral sex, was the cause of his cancer. It was discussed that oral sex is a suspected cause to certain oral cancers as doctors in the article point out. But he did not say it was the specific cause of his personal cancer.
Slightly reining back there, although, as I say, if you read the transcript put out by the "Guardian" --
LAMM: Yes, Piers, I --
MORGAN: He was a bit more direct than that. LAMM: I think the point is that oral sex is not safe sex. It's safer, but it's not safe.
LAMM: And HPV, syphilis, gonorrhea, a whole bunch of, you know, STDs can be transmitted that way.
MORGAN: So actually probably quite an important wake-up call regardless.
LAMM: Well, absolutely. And HPV really can become an epidemic, you know, by the year 2020 if this turned out to really be the -- you know, a true issue with HPV.
MORGAN: So we should applaud Michael Douglas for raising it even if he now wishes he hadn't?
LAMM: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's going to encourage young men to start getting this vaccine, as well, which is really important.
MORGAN: Yes. Dr. Lamm, thank you very much indeed.
LAMM: My pleasure.
MORGAN: And we'll be right back.
MORGAN: And that's all for us tonight, Anderson Cooper starts right now.