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White House Personnel Change; Rice to Replace Donilon; Chrysler Refuses to Recall Jeeps; First Lady Clashes with Heckler; Building Collapse in Philadelphia

Aired June 05, 2013 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

We have a very busy show ahead. The day's main news and as always our take on daytime justice. One of the big stories today, though, Chrysler and our government are at a bit of a standstill and a bit of a war. And it has to do with the cars you see out on the road and maybe a car you are driving out on the road.

Coming up in just a few moments, why we don't seem to be able to force a company to take dangerous cars off the road and a question, are they actually dangerous? What do the reports say? How much power does the government have? All that coming up in just a moment.

But a big personnel shakeup to report at the White House this morning. Some Republicans calling it an act of defiance on the part of President Obama. But guess what? There is nothing anyone can do about it.

Later today, Mr. Obama will name this woman, Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. as his brand-new national security adviser. It's a position that does not require any kind of Senate confirmation.

You will probably remember Miss Rice well because she was at the center of the controversy over the attack on Benghazi, criticized heavily by Republicans for her early account over what motivated that attack that killed a U.S. ambassador.

Jake Tapper, chief Washington correspondent and host of the CNN program, "THE LEAD," joins me now.

So there has to be a lot of reaction to this. How is it starting to shake out, Jamie?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of Republicans, obviously, are upset with the pick, but as you point out, there is nothing they can do about it. It is not a position that requires Senate confirmation.

Dr. Rice, of course, went on the Sunday shows after the September 11th, 2012, attack at the U.S. compound in Benghazi, and she diligently recited from talking points that it turned out in retrospect were inaccurate and misleading in some ways as to whether or not there was a terrorist element to what happened.

A lot of the blame was put on protests in the Arab world and the Muslim world having to do with that anti-Muslim video when, in fact, there remains no evidence that that exactly -- that that played a role, exactly.

So Dr. Rice, as the one person that went on the Sunday shows, and I know because I was one of the hosts. I was substituting for George Stephanopoulos that morning -- is the one who answered questions about it. In a lot of ways said things that were not true.

But as you point out, there is nothing the Senate can do about it. She is a very close friend and adviser to President Obama. And, in fact, when she withdrew her name for consideration for the secretary of state position, Ashleigh, when it was going to John Kerry, ultimately, she earned a lot of chits with the White House.

She impressed a lot of people. Her stock went up because she was in the view of the White House very classy when she removed her name and made it easy for President Obama.

BANFIELD: But just to wrap this up and make sure we've crossed every T, dotted every I, the Ts and Is aren't finished yet. There's still a lot of questions. She's still going to have to answer those questions or does she get a break as the national security adviser? What's the status?

TAPPER: Well, who is going to ask those questions, me, you, the Senate? I mean, she honestly gets to ...

BANFIELD: The critics aren't going to go away, though, Jake. You've got to admit.

TAPPER: No, of course not. The criticism is -- and as you say, this is, you know, in many ways an act of defiance, President Obama saying to critics like Lindsey Graham and John McCain and others, you know, I don't care what you think.

He thinks a lot of these charges are trumped up and political. I'm not saying that I share that view, but his point is he can do what he wants. He's the president. This is a position that doesn't require confirmation.

It is a controversial pick. There's no question about it. But probably within the scheme of things, what may be more important is the role and the job that Susan Rice brings to this, which is she is different from Tom Donilon, the man she'll be replacing.

She is much more activist, much more of an advocate than Tom Donilon, who was more of a manager behind the scenes. And so it's going to be very interesting to see how that shapes the position when she takes this new role.

BANFIELD: All right, Jake Tapper, thank you for that. And I know you're going to have a lot more on your program later today.

I'm just going to remind everybody you're on at 4:00 Eastern. It's "THE LEAD."

Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Always nice to see you.

Some other news now that could safe your life, in fact. If you drive an older model Jeep Grand Cherokee or Liberty, listen up. The government wants to recall nearly 3 million of those vehicles, saying that they are, in fact, fire hazards.

Here's the weird part. The maker, Chrysler, says that's not true. All of this despite a probe by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that indicates more than 300 people have died when their Jeeps caught fire after rear-end collisions.

The latest one happened on a Houston highway just yesterday and the Jeep owner did not survive that crash.

Joining me now is Christine Romans, CNN's chief anchor and business correspondent. OK, I don't understand how this works. I thought when you have proof that something is dangerous, a product is dangerous, our government can sweep in and say, get those things off the road or off the shelves.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Recalls are voluntary. Recalls are voluntary, so the government comes in and says, we would like to have a recall. We would like this product to be recalled. And the company can say, no, we disagree with you.

At that point you have a conflict between the government and the industry or the car company. And then it goes to public hearings. And then in the end, if the car company still refuses a recall, it can go to court.

So essentially, recalls are voluntary, and it is a judge in the end who decides whether there will be cars that are taken off of the road.

BANFIELD: So when we've had something before where we've seen certain recalls, major recalls that cost tens, hundreds of millions of dollars, this is the result of a grand negotiation between the companies and the government?

ROMANS: That's absolutely right. Absolutely right. And we know that in this case it's been since 2010 the government has been talking to Chrysler about this particular issue.

Chrysler says and has said all along that they think NHTSA's initial conclusions are wrong. They think they have rebuffed this recall because they think the government is wrong on this.

And I want you to read -- I want to read either statement. "We believe NHTSA's initial conclusions are based on an incomplete analysis of the underlying data. We are committed to continuing working with the agency" -- that's that negotiation you're talking about -- "to resolve this disagreement."

They say for all these fires, some of them are the case that, for example, a Jeep Grand Cherokee that is just sitting there, slammed into at 65-miles-per-hour, that the placement and the type of fuel tank is not the problem. It's the crashes that are the problem.

BANFIELD: OK, so just quickly, is this something that we could -- I mean, we are not finished here, are we?

ROMANS: We are not finished.

BANFIELD: We could see this in court then?

ROMANS: We are not finished. I mean, this is going to move forward from here. You will probably have, as the statement says, more negotiation between Chrysler and the government.

One thing that a few people have noted to me today, Chrysler is now an Italian company. It is owned by -- it is an Italian company. It is owned by Fiat.

This a company wouldn't exist today if it weren't for the U.S. government bailing it out a couple years ago, and now it's a company that is seeing sales improve. It's back on its own two feet. And it's saying, no, no, we don't think. We're not going to agree to a recall at this point.

BANFIELD: A lot of people might have forgotten that this is now an Italian company that was bailed out by U.S. taxpayers.

Excellent work, thank you for that, and let us know how that progresses.

ROMANS: We sure will.

BANFIELD: Christine Romans, thank you so much.

Something rare to report to you now, in our top stories, first lady Michelle Obama in a run-in with a heckler at a fundraising event in Washington, D.C. It was for the Democratic National Committee.

The cameras weren't allowed inside, but it was still being recorded, the audio portion, anyway. Have a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: We have an obligation to stand up for those kids and I don't care what you believe in, we don't -- wait, wait.

One of the things I -- one of the things that I don't do well is this. Do you understand? One of the things I don't do is this.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A pool reporter says as soon as that happened, she walked away from the mike and approached the heckler and then, off-mike said this.

"Listen to me or you can take the mike, but I'm leaving. You all decide. You have one choice."

Apparently, a lot of people cheered for Mrs. Obama at that point.

It turns out the protester was Ellen Sturtz, who's a member of the gay rights group called Get Equal. She wants President Obama to sign an executive order that would bar any company that has a contract with the federal government from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

But, again, you don't see heckling of the first lady very often. It didn't go down well with the audience.

As many as 40,000 people are expected to gather at a service this hour to remember four firefighters. You are looking at some live pictures right now at Houston's Reliant Stadium.

Those four firefighters were killed last week in a massive hotel fire. They were trapped when that structure collapsed as it was burning.

It was the deadliest day in the history of the Houston fire department, and that is a 118-year-old history, it must be noted.

The Texas governor, Rick Perry, is expected to speak at that ceremony.

The last senator to serve in World War II is being remembered today in New York. Senator Frank Lautenberg, the long-time Democrat from New Jersey, died on Monday at the age of 89. He was the oldest member of the Senate.

The vice president, Joe Biden, and the former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, are among those who are expected to deliver eulogies at his funeral, which is happening this hour.

And tomorrow, Senator Lautenberg's body will lie in repose at the Senate chamber.

Small bit of information here, he will be transported, his body will be transported on Amtrak back to Washington. He was a huge proponent of Amtrak, so perhaps a very fitting journey for the late senator.

Just ahead, the "Daily Justice" rundown. Case number one, this is the ultimate picture of power. Just look at your camera scanning all those badges, stripes and brass. That's the nation's military brass.

The commanders, though, on the defense. They can't seem to stop sexual violence among their own ranks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: This isn't about sex. This is about assaultive domination and violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: So the question is, does our military need an overhaul?

Case number two, the ex-cop, the dead wife and one very provocative note. Is it or isn't it a fake? The battle of the handwriting experts, coming at you, next.

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BANFIELD: And we bring you this breaking news courtesy of live pictures in Philadelphia from our affiliate WPVI.

You are looking at what appears to be a building collapse that the police are now responding to in Philadelphia. This, if you know the area, is at the corner of 22nd and Market Streets in Philadelphia.

Rescue workers, you can see if you look towards sort of the center right of your screen, are on the site. They are going through this building, sifting through some of the rubble at this point.

The police have actually sent out a tweet about this asking the public to stay out of the area to allow the rescue workers access.

Now one of the things we do not know about this building -- there's the tweet itself. "Building collapse, 22 and Market Streets, asking the public to stay out of the area to allowing the rescue workers access." There you are, verbatim.

We just don't know if this was an abandoned building or if there were people inside at the time. It seems that these rescue workers have sort of congregated in one area anyway and are throwing small debris which is sort of a unique indication they feel there is something significant in that particular spot.

But it is quite a significant scene. We're going to continue to get our crews to the site and figure out just what exactly caused this. And, again, if there was anyone in that building or this was an abandoned area. But as we zoom out, you can see the damage to the buildings that are close by as well. It looks like a pretty dangerous scene all around.

The assembled brass that was sitting before a Senate committee represented some pretty awesome power when it comes to the U.S. military. Just take a look at that picture as it scans. It's their job to protect the nation and, you know, by all accounts they do it very well. But all those generals and all those medals can't seem to protect the mere rank and time service men and women from sexual assaults among their ranks.

The numbers are pretty staggering -- 26,000 incidents in 2012. And that is only a Defense Department estimate because that's just the number of assaults that were reported. There's also an estimate that just about 15 percent of attacks makes it onto the books; that's a lot that don't make it onto the books.

It starts with predators apparently getting into the military in the first place. You would think that's really tough, but listen to this exchange between Senator John McCain and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: General Dempsey, do the services allow individuals with a history of sex-related crimes to enlist or receive a commission to serve?

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHRM. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: There are currently, in my judgment, Senator, inadequate protections for precluding that from happening. So a sex offender could, in fact, find their way into the armed forces of the United States and, in fact, there's cases where a conviction wouldn't automatically result in a discharge.

MCCAIN: Obviously, we have to fix that. You would agree?

DEMPSEY: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So there you have it, the military admits that sexual predators are getting in unchecked. But what happens once they're serving? Where are the protections for their potential victims in this service? It turns out we have a bit of a problem there, too.

Just listen to this senator criticize the military for both letting in the bad guys, and then not dealing with them appropriately once they enlist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCASKILL: There are two problems. One is you have sexual predators who are committing crimes. Two, you have work to do on the issue of a respectful and healthy work environment. These are not the same issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That brings us to this important question -- sex assaults: does the military need an overhaul to deal where this problem?

I want to bring in CNN's military analyst, retired General "Spider" Marks. The general joins us from Virginia to talk about the problem and maybe more importantly to talk about the potential solutions.

Spider Marks, a lot of people say the problem stems from the chain of command. If you have an issue and you want to report it, you have to go to your boss, the person who could effectively destroy your career if he or she wanted to, and that that stops a lot of people from getting justice. Is that how you see it?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Ashleigh, it truly is a problem. Good order and discipline in a military organization starts at the top and is enforced by policies, by procedures, and by personal presence throughout the chain of command. So it clearly starts with those senior folks you saw at the table. They have to act knowledge and they have, and they have acknowledged that there is a very large problem in the chain of command.

The most telling challenge that we have right now is the number of assaults that do not get reported. And that goes to what General Jim Amos said, who's coming out of the Marine Corps, that there is no trust for the chain of command if that's the issue.

So when you take the guide on, when you take the responsibility to lead the service and to lead your organization, you've got to step up. You don't get to choose your missions. This is a mission that needs to be addressed.

BANFIELD: OK, so the next question would be a simple one. Should the chain be altered? Should there be a link taken out of the chain so that any potential victim doesn't have to go to his or her direct superior officer but instead can go right to the military prosecutors or the judges? Because it seems when the crimes are more serious, like murder, et cetera, you're not necessarily always dealing with the next superior officer.

MARKS: Yes, the issue, Ashleigh, is that there clearly is -- the organization of the military exists for those kinds of offline issues. You have your inspectors general. You have your chaplains, your military religious counselors. You also have your staff judge advocates.

The issue is that every one of those folks works for the commanding general, works for the boss. So there can be another parallel chain that has coordination within all of those agencies, so if an individual feels threatened, he or she can go to some outside agency and then there must be some type of a guarantee that it works its way back in and that it's received on that end.

So I think the chain of command has to stay in charge of good order and discipline, but the review of recommendations and decisions can be made through another channel. But that's a review process.

BANFIELD: I'm glad you said that, because one of the arguments has been good order and discipline needs to stay the way it is. But clearly, we've got some problems with good order and discipline if we've got numbers like that.

General Marks, always so god to see you. Thank you so much.

MARKS: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I want to bring in attorney Lisa Bloom right now to join us in the legal briefs discussion. She's a lot of experience dealing with civilian sexual assault victims.

And, Lisa, suddenly, we have this issue coming to the forefront. We've got a lot of predators apparently within the military. They're getting in. That was admitted yesterday. They're perpetrating. It seems they're not getting dealt with properly. And then here's our problem that we want to bring to you -- they are getting out. And they're getting out to walk amongst the rest of us civilians. So give me a feel for what someone has been able to almost prosecute his or her crimes unchecked does when they get out?

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: What we know is that military rapists, 90 percent of them are serial sex offenders, which means they're going to do this over and over again. They're victimizing women in the military, which is horrendous enough, and then they're going to get out and they're going to continue to victimize people.

You know, Ashleigh, the definition of insanity is doing things over and over again and expecting a different result. We know that the current system does not work. We cannot continue with the current system of having the chain of command be responsible for prosecuting rapes, because it does not work. Half a million women and men raped since 1991 in the military. It's got to go to a special prosecutor. This is a crime. It's not an order and discipline and training issue. It's a crime. Give it to special prosecutors. Let them prosecute and start taking this seriously.

BANFIELD: And it should be noted, I say this often but I'm going to repeat it, because a lot of people out there have had a problem with women in the military saying it leads to just this, that more than half of these sexual assaults are actually men who report being sexually assaulted.

So here's a question for you. So many people say this is a culture. The culture needs to change. We need to lead and discipline out of it. Do you believe that you can lead and discipline out of a rapist's culture or does this need to be something entirely different like that overhaul question we asked at the top?

BLOOM: Well, I think it's both, Ashleigh, as I said. First and foremost, it's a crime and so people have to be prosecuted to protect future victims as well as to give justice to the current victim.

This is not a women in the military issue. Countries like Israeli, Canada, Australia, have women in the military who serve honorably just as our women do. But they treat this as a crime and it goes to a prosecutor. It's not a chain of command issue. Women in the military are here to stay. They're not going away. It's the rapists who need to get out of the military.

BANFIELD: That's a good point to make. Lisa Bloom, thank you for that, and stay with me. Lisa's with avvo.com. She's a fantastic source for all things justice, so that's why I'm not going to let you go right now because I have another case coming up, Lisa.

Our next case, a former police officer accused of killing his wife. And there is so much forensic evidence in this case, but today this is the evidentiary piece that we're focusing on. Who wrote this note, a suicide note? Was this the dead woman or did someone forge it? The experts weigh in.

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