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U.S. Tracking Verizon Calls; Andrea Close to Landfall; Conrad Murray's Message to Paris; Philly Collapse

Aired June 06, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Your phone records in the hands of the government. Is it necessary to protect America? The debate over big brother hitting a fever pitch.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

Tropical Storm Andrea on the move. We'll take you to the action, live.

He is the teenager found dead inside a gym mat. As his parents are demanding answers, a major development today involving their son's body.

Plus --

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you a little nervous as we head inside here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. You know, I really am. It's a strange thing because in a way she's a stranger to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A victim of the Boston bombings didn't know the woman who saved her life, until now. Do not miss this reunion.

And --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

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BALDWIN: His show hasn't even started, but George Stroumboulopoulos is already making headlines. CNN's newest host joins me live. We'll get personal and have a little fun.

And here we go. Good to see you on this Thursday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And, you guessed it right, big brother is keeping files. Apparently every single phone call handled by Verizon and possibly every phone call, period, is being funneled into these files of the top secret uber technical data mining service known as the National Security Agency or NSA. This is the headquarters there. This is Ft. Meade, Maryland.

So if you called granny yesterday to wish her a happy birthday, chances are pretty darn good that there is a record of that call right now in the NSA's massive computers. And you ask, good question, how do we know this? Well, here is the order itself. Formerly top secret approved April 25th by a court that issues warrants in the fight against terror.

Now we're learning this snooping started seven years ago. And how about this? Two highly connected senators speaking just a short time ago say it is legal, totally legal, under The Patriot Act enacted shortly after 9/11. Take a listen for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIR: This is just metadata. There is no content involved. In other words, no content of a communication.

SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: All of these numbers are basically ferreted out by computer. But if there's a number that matches a terrorist number that has been dialed by a U.S. number or dialed from a terrorist to a U.S. number, then that may be flagged.

FEINSTEIN: Terrorists will come after us if they can. And the only thing that we have to deter this is good intelligence. To understand that a plot is being hatched and to get there before they get to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And let me just add to that. A short time ago we got this from Congressman Mike Rogers, the chair of the House Intelligence Committee. He tells us that this phone data, this metadata program, was actually used to thwart a planned terror attack on the homeland within this past year. And he went on to say he hopes to declassify some of the details to further the point of why this might be necessary.

But, still, a lot of folks are very upset about this. Joining me now from Dallas, Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson" radio talk show. He is a conservative. And from Washington, we have Julie Myers Wood, former assistant secretary of Homeland Security. She served in the Bush administration.

So, Ben and Julie, welcome.

JULIE MYERS WOOD, FMR. ASST. SECY. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Thank you.

BEN FERGUSON, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": Thanks for having us.

BALDWIN: Before we get going, let me show this one thing. This is what Al Gore is saying. He tweeted about this. This is his tweet about the surveillance program. "Obscenely outrageous," he says. "Is it me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous."

Ben Ferguson, I want to begin with you because you are our conservative -

FERGUSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Who we normally love having on this show. But am I hearing this correctly, you're agreeing with Al Gore?

FERGUSON: Yes, I do. And the reason why is, is I think the way that they're expanding this is exactly the opposite of what it was intended to do. If a number is being dialed from outside the U.S. coming in from a known terrorist number, I think it's OK to monitor that phone call or that information.

But to go to Verizon or any other American carrier, and there's probably going to be more than just Verizon we find out about, and say give us all the information on every human being without there being any basis for looking at my phone records or where I'm calling from or the data I'm sending, I think it's absurd.

Even more importantly than that, the hypocrisy from Barack Obama. He was at Dartmouth in 2008 on one of the last days of the campaign and he said, let me make it clear, if you vote for me, we will not allow this to happen and it will not go forward.

BALDWIN: OK. Hang on. But, hang on, Ben.

And, Julie, I'm going to get to you.

But, Ben, you know, as we said, this has been going on for seven years. This happened under the Bush administration.

FERGUSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: And I just have to ask, are you upset about this just because, you know, you want to pick a fight with Barack Obama?

FERGUSON: No, I'm upset with - I'm upset the fact that it's blanketed and not using common sense at targeting individual numbers and then seeing who that person is calling. There's a difference between saying we have a real threat or a possible threat coming in from this number and we're going to look at every number they're talking to and connect dots and just going to Verizon saying, hey, we want everybody's number and everybody's information for no reason.

BALDWIN: OK. That's right. No, you're right.

FERGUSON: That, to me, is not OK.

BALDWIN: Julie, you know, as we read this reporting, you know, it is phone calls within the United States, it's a phone call from here abroad. You served in the Bush administration, Department of Homeland Security. You see some good in this?

WOOD: I absolutely do. I think the government has a responsibility to look at this metadata and to try to connect all the dots. We've got to be targeted, just as Mr. Ferguson said, but we've also got to look at this metadata. And, you know, metadata is -- follows you just when you get on the Internet, when you go into Target, when you do anything. And so the idea that the government would ignore metadata is really irresponsible.

But I would say that those who are concerned about these calls and the NSA having these calls, yes, they have a point in that there is some lack of trust in the government. Do we know, are there appropriate controls in place? Is the FBI and the NSA, are they doing what they need to do to protect them and can we trust them?

BALDWIN: Yes.

WOOD: Or do we have another IRS scenario on our hands?

FERGUSON: Well, and, Brooke -

BALDWIN: Well, and I know and I know and we've heard -

FERGUSON: I don't -

BALDWIN: Hang on. We've heard, you know, the last couple of years from both senators Udall and Wyden both sort of ringing alarm bells for the last couple of years. This isn't new, but it's just another example, according to them.

But let me just give an example. Just hang on both of you because, for our viewers, you know, let's say I call my mom, want to wish her a happy birthday and then so somewhere in the bowels of the NSA there is this record of the phone call. It's not what I said. It's not even my name but, you know, Ben, you said it, it's your phone number.

FERGUSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: It's my mom's number. It was when the call was placed, how long it lasted.

But, Ben, my question then to you is, what do I have to fear? If there is nothing nefarious about this phone call, it's just a little happy birthday, what's the big deal?

FERGUSON: Because I - because -- Brooke, I have a right to not have to be treated as if I'm a suspect by the United States government when I make a phone call to grandmother to wish her a happy birthday.

BALDWIN: Even if I have nothing to hide?

FERGUSON: And I shouldn't - I shouldn't have -- the burden of proof is not on me to always be walking around going, I have nothing to hide. The government should have the burden so that we actually have a government that's not obsessed with controlling the people to be able to say, you should be able to make a phone call in the United States of America to grandmother to wish her happy birthday without the government keeping the data on that phone call. And the fact that I'm even having to defend it tells me how warped this whole conversation is. More important than that though --

BALDWIN: So then - so then -- FERGUSON: Let me - but let me say this.

BALDWIN: Go.

FERGUSON: Do we trust the government? I don't. Look at how they've been monitoring the Associated Press and other news organizations. And look at how the IRS used information to target Americans. So why then all of a sudden would I trust the government with my cell phone records to not abuse that power and target individuals maybe they don't like.

BALDWIN: Then, Julie, to you.

WOOD: I think that -

BALDWIN: Go ahead. Jump in. And also answer me this, then what should our expectation of privacy be?

WOOD: Well, I certainly think the government, you know, should use all these things responsibly. And so we've got to make sure, and I think that's one, you know, positive thing from these lawsuits, we've got to make sure that the government is following its own protocols and doing things appropriately. But I think we want the government to be running these sophisticated algorithms and doing this data mining and making sure that for the patterns that are not apparent immediately on, we don't have to wait for a terrorist attack to come to go back and look at it. That we can actually proactively look at it now. And so it -

FERGUSON: But, Brooke - Brooke -

WOOD: You know, data mining --

FERGUSON: When we had actual -

BALDWIN: Go ahead. Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: When we had actual data - when we had actual data and the FBI went and talked to the people, they ended up doing the Boston bombing. And we had warnings from Russia to go interview someone and we didn't act on it fully? If they can't even get that right with solid proof and warnings, then why should I expect them to be able to do the same thing with my phone calls when they don't even get it right when there is terrorists involved and is terrorist information given from other countries?

BALDWIN: I -

WOOD: They've got to get it right. They've got to get it right. And part of getting it right, though, is looking at new technology and new ways to analyze patterns that might not seem obvious up front. I think Boston is the perfect example of why we've got to have these sort of things in place with appropriate controls to make sure if there are not obvious patterns, we catch them. We get that metadata and we use it for law enforcement. We don't just use it for the commercial sector. BALDWIN: It's a great conversation. Guys, I appreciate both your perspectives. Valid questions. We're actually going to talk to a lawyer next hour about what really is legal when it comes to big brother.

Ben Ferguson, thank you. Julie Myers Wood, thank you so much to both of you.

WOOD: Thank you.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And speaking of maybe saying no to the government, Chrysler is voluntarily recalling -- different story today. They are now voluntarily recalling some 630,000 newer Jeeps. These are not the Jeeps we talked about yesterday. Possible airbag here and seat belt problems are behind the recall of some 2010 and 2012 Jeep Patriot and Compass SUVs. Chrysler says seat belts and airbags may not function properly during rollovers. Problems with transmission fluid leaks are behind the recall for some of the 2012 and 2013 Jeep Wrangler SUVs. Chrysler, we told you about this yesterday, they are still refusing to recall nearly 3 million older Jeeps that federal safety regulators have deemed unsafe. They are saying no to the federal government here. The feds say some older Jeep Grand Cherokees and Libertys have a defective gas tank design that could result in fires if the Jeeps are hit from behind.

And to the world of severe weather here. The first named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season is mere hours from landfall. Look at this. The center of Tropical Storm Andrea will hit near Clearwater, Florida, in just about three hours from now. It is not - let me repeat - not likely to become a hurricane between now and then, but at least two small tornadoes were reported today as the rain bands move inland. Along the gulf beaches, one of the biggest threats have been dangerous rip currents.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of a sudden like my feet, I wasn't touching the ground anymore. And I was like - I couldn't see any of my friends anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I definitely thought I was going to drowned. Like I have anxiety and I started freaking out because my sister was in front of me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You helped save lives today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess - I guess it's a good feeling. I'm just -- again, I'm just very glad that we got all of them back safely and nobody was injured or anything happened to them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were -- we were just swimming. We didn't - we didn't think we were that far out until like we couldn't get our bodies back in and we couldn't touch and we were all freaking out.

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BALDWIN: Scary stuff. This was Gulf Shores, Alabama. The story was that six swimmers suddenly found themselves in trouble as the undertow dragged them away from shore yesterday. Lifeguards raced out to the swimmers, rounded everyone up and brought them back to safety.

Our Alina Machado is in Clearwater, Florida, for us right now.

Looks pretty windy where you are, Alina. Tell me - tell me about conditions there.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, you mentioned it's windy. It's actually -- we've felt like the wind has started to really pick up for some reason in the last half hour. I've been pelted with sand here while I've been standing here.

Now, this is nothing though compared to what we saw just a few hours ago. Earlier this morning, there was some very heavy downpours here on Clearwater Beach. That's what caused this minor flooding here just off the shoreline. This water here is probably about six inches deep. This is very, very minor.

Now, we have been seeing people coming out here enjoying the day because the rain has pretty much stopped and conditions have improved despite the wind. As you can see behind me, there is some pretty rough surf, but there's also a lot of people out here. There are families out here with their children out going for a swim. We've also seen a lot of surfers who have been out here enjoying the rough surf. We haven't -- this is not very common for this part of the area. Typically the water here is very calm. But you can see, there's plenty of waves and people are enjoying that.

Now, we've just received some new information from a spokesperson with Pinellas County. She tells us that a tornado was reported in Gulfport. That's about 45 miles south of Clearwater in this county. She tells us that the damage caused by this reported tornado was very minor. Some downed trees and power lines. No major issues there. So, conditions here at Clearwater Beach, looking better. There is some minor flooding, but things are getting better.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Alina Machado, thank you.

Coming up next, Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson's former doctor, sending a message to Paris Jackson on the day we learned she cut her wrists. It gets a little strange. We will tell you all about that, next.

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BALDWIN: Conrad Murray is reaching out to Paris Jackson in the wake of her apparent attempt to commit suicide. That's right, Conrad Murray, the doctor who is now doing time for involuntary manslaughter for giving Paris' superstar dad, Michael Jackson, that fatal dose of the anesthetic Propofol. Murray recorded this open letter to Paris Jackson assuring her that he's there for her. He gave it to celeb gossip site TMZ. And in this letter, Murray tells the 15-year-old, quote, "I don't know if there's anything I can do to solve your pain or help you with your problem, but I wanted you to know that I am here for you. I have never been gone."

Alan Duke, let me come to you here in Los Angeles because my question, number one, when I heard this is, how can he even -- you talked to Conrad Murray's lawyer. How can he even reach out to her from behind bars like this over the phone?

ALAN DUKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he has a phone in his jail cell. I mean another form of a cell phone, I suppose. He's had it for some months. And he constantly calls people. You have to accept a collect call and set yourself up on the jail system to do that and it's not cheap. But Conrad Murray has free use of a telephone pretty much 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

BALDWIN: Huh.

DUKE: I've gotten calls from him. And, so, there you go.

BALDWIN: Wow. OK. So he has a phone. He uses it. We also know he used the title of the Jackson song, "You Are Not Alone." Other song references in this letter to Paris. It was just a couple of months ago he I guess the words would be serenaded Anderson Cooper during an interview from prison. Remember this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONRAD MURRAY, CONVICTED IN DEATH OF MICHAEL JACKSON (singing): She's a little boy that Santa Claus forgot. And goodness knows he did not want a lot. He wrote a note to Santa for some Crayons and a toy. It broke his little heart when he found Santa hadn't come. In the streets he envied all the little --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You see the expression on Anderson's face there. Alan, tell me what is Conrad Murray's relationship with Michael Jackson's kids?

DUKE: Well, they've not seen him since the hospital on June 25, 2009. Nearly four years ago when Michael Jackson died. They were all together there at the emergency room. That's the last time. Conrad Murray has reached out at times to try to meet with the members of the family, but they've declined up to this point.

But I can tell you that he was their doctor for three years. He practically lived with them for a couple of months leading up to the father's death. And there was an affectionate relationship between Conrad Murray and Michael's kids, Blanket, Prince and Paris. And I think that they have some fond memories of him because they believe that their father trusted him.

And, actually, I think we're going to hear in this trial, they don't think -- they believe that the people responsible for Michael Jackson's death was not Conrad Murray, but was -- were AEG executives. BALDWIN: So perhaps that sense of affection that his kids, including Paris, had all of those years leading up to their dad's death, you're saying, still remains?

DUKE: I think some of it does with some of them. I think that's going to come out. And I've been told this by people in the Jackson household, that they don't -- that the kids themselves, they didn't sue Conrad Murray. They could have. But they chose to sue AEG Live.

BALDWIN: Interesting. Alan Duke, you have great sources, I know, within the Jackson family. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. There in Los Angeles.

Coming up, we will take you live to Philadelphia where the mayor has promised, and I'm quoting him here, a wide ranging investigation into what caused that building collapse from yesterday. Some eye witnesses say they knew the building was going to collapse. Our question is, how did they know that? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A Chicago couple on a trip to Cambodia never planned for their vacation to become a mission to educate two young women. Educating girls is the subject of this CNN film. We're calling it "Girl Rising" which airs June 16th. And I want you to watch this preview because it tells how their sightseeing tour ended up changing lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL SMITH: We were just horrified. I mean there was hundreds of people on this giant garbage dump.

LAUREN SMITH: The smell was horrible.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was 2002 when Bill and Lauren Smith ended up at this garbage dump outside Phnom Penh. They were sightseeing when their driver asked if they wanted to see the children.

B. SMITH: And they were just like starving, picking through garbage for a few cents a day.

WHITFIELD: So the Smiths decided to help one person.

L. SMITH: And I remember seeing this little girl with a red hat. And I don't know if it was a red hat or if it was her eyes, but just looked kind of hopeless.

SREYNA, SCAVENGED AT DUMP AS A CHILD: The (INAUDIBLE) guy that he come up to me and say, hey, you know, these foreigner want to talk to you. They want to help you. Take you, go to school.

WHITFIELD: They took 10-year-old Sreyna home to talk to her mother and met 12-year-old Salim.

L. SMITH: We're like, well, we've got to help the sister too.

WHITFIELD: The couple agreed to pay the girl's mother what the children earned at the dump, about $10 a month each.

B. SMITH: The deal was that they could never go back to the dump again and we would put them in school. We would pay for everything.

WHITFIELD: Over the years, the girls became close to the Smiths.

SALIM, SCAVENGED AT DUMP AS A CHILD: We feel like we be like second family. I get emotion is like because I don't have like a feeling with my family that much.

WHITFIELD: Now, the two young women are attending college in Chicago.

SALIM: Education to me is like a second life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It's incredible. CNN film "Girl Rising" premiers right here on CNN June 16th at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

Coming up next, to self-help radio hosts commit suicide using so- called exit bags. We will show you some pretty chilling video of their advice to listeners.

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BALDWIN: We are near the bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

It has been 26 hours for grief mixed with joy at the site of a building collapse in Philadelphia. Firefighters working through the night, pulling the bodies of six people from the rubble. But they also rescued one person, a 61-year-old woman who had been trapped for more than 12 hours. She's the 14th person to make it out alive. At this hour, crews continue to search for survivors. And as they work, there are new details today on what happened right before the collapse. A wall in the building set for demolition fell into this adjacent Salvation Army thrift store there on the corner which had customers inside. City officials today said demolition crews are not scrutinized like other trades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what are those requirements? Does somebody have to demonstrate proficiency at demolition?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On specific jobs, yes. In terms of electrical contractor or a plumbing contractor, but not specifically to demolition, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So this particular contractor did not have to show any proficiency or history of doing a job like this successfully?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The code doesn't require it, no. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Want to go straight to the scene to Don Lemon who's there for day two.

Don, tell me what's going on behind you.

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, can you believe if you want to demolish a building, you don't have to show any proficiency in demolishing a building? I mean especially when there's - because you can demolish a building when it's occupied - another structure is occupied next door.

BALDWIN: Frightening to hear.