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President Defends Spying Programs; What Info the Government Gets; Transgender Ex-Navy SEAL Living Her Life; Man Has 22 Kids by 14 Women; Americans Strike Out on Their Own

Aired June 07, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Unless you're living totally off the grid, big brother is watching you. We found out yesterday that the U.S. government is collecting the phone records of Verizon customers, everyone from your gun popping teenager down the street with the cell phone glued to his head to your grandmother who is still trying to figure out how to send that text message.

Today, two newspapers, "Washington Post," and Britain's "Guardian," reveal another spy tactic. The reports indicate that the FBI and the National Security Agency or the NSA are tapping into some of the world's biggest online companies, these are they, on the screen, to get everything from e-mails, videos, photographs. You have Microsoft, Apple, YouTube, Yahoo!, Google, Facebook, and Skype.

President Obama weighed in on the spying for fist time just a couple of hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Nobody is listening to your telephone calls. That's not what this program is about. As was indicated, what the intelligence community is doing is looking at phone numbers and durations of calls. They're not looking at people's names and they're not looking at content.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The president also says the internet spying does not target any U.S. citizens, U.S. residents or anyone living in the United States. So if no one is listening in on your phone calls, searching through your Facebook page, what is the government seeing and what is it doing with the information?

Kim Zetter is a senior reporter with wired.com and James Bamford has written four books including the very first one about the NSA, including the "Shadow Factory, The NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on Americas."

So welcome. Welcome to both of you. Kim, first question to you. Obviously it's a two different issues, it's the phone calls and the internet surveillance. But, you know, government says they're storing this metadata in English. What is that? KIM ZETTER, SENIOR REPORTER, WIRED.COM: So, metadata is -- potentially we're talking about the phone records. We're talking about the calls, the phone numbers that are the original phone number and the recipient phone number. We're talking about data, about duration of call, possibly the location of the phones, where they occurred, that kind of thing.

When we talk about metadata, we don't talk about content. We're not also getting subscriber information, the court order in that case was very clear they weren't asking for the name and address of the subscriber. However, that doesn't mean the NSA doesn't always have that information or has the ability to get that as well.

BALDWIN: Quickly, let me jump in. James, I'll get to you in a second. Just to be clear, I think about "The Matrix," the movie, and the blips and symbols running through that, an idea of what this could be. Are they looking at this or are they looking at actual phone numbers or words?

JAMES BAMFORD, AUTHOR, "THE SHADOW FACTORY": Well, from what they have said recently, basically what they're trying to do is they pull virtually the entire country's telephone bills, what you see on your bill, how long you made the phone call, who you called, and they're including local calls. This isn't international. These aren't foreign calls.

These are calls between you and your neighbor or you and your children or whatever. These are everybody's phone calls. That's what makes this so outrageous is this wasn't passed through Congress. This wasn't approved by anybody. This was just a mandate to get everybody's telephone communications, not necessarily what they're saying, but who they're calling and how long they're on the phone, where they're located and all that.

BALDWIN: As the president explained today, you know, if they want more information to go to the judge, the federal judge, defies the judge and has to prove why they want the information, they could get the content of that. Tell me then what does the government do with this information, James?

BAMFORD: Well, it does this thing called data mining. It is rather useless but they do it. They take all the information, try to make sense out of it and try to find a terrorist. It hasn't worked very often because the program has been going on for seven years or so, and we had the bombing in Boston, we had the underwear bomber, we had the Times Square bomber.

So all these people communicated and a lot of them communicated internationally, but this is a big surprise to everybody. I've been writing about the intelligence community a long time. The one thing they always want is more information, more data. And all you do is get a bigger hay stack and it makes it more difficult to find that little needle in there.

BALDWIN: Yes, I --

BAMFORD: You get more people piling data on to the hay stack and fewer people looking for the needle.

BALDWIN: Yes, I read the analogy in "Politico" where you were quoted talking about that. I thought, you know, add to this, the fact they're building this massive $2 billion facility outside of Salt Lake City, to put a lot of this information. So the hay stack, metaphorically speaking getting bigger and bigger. How do we find the people who are better at finding the needles?

BAMFORD: Have to first of all find people that speak the language and then trying to speak Irdu and Pashtu and languages like Angola and Arabic and all those others. You have to find people that speak the language, understand the culture, which they always had a problem doing. And then you got to have enough engineers and computer experts to sift through the data. I think it is a fallacy to think this is going to solve a big problem with terrorism by --

BALDWIN: Even though Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, says one attack was thwarted. You say it's not helping.

BAMFORD: Well, I would like to hear the details about the attack that was thwarted. They seem to ballyhoo every time they have a terrorist success. I didn't hear anything about this and if that's all you this is one success and all these failures, I don't know. If that was a company, I think that company would be out of business at this point.

BALDWIN: I think I go back in quoting the great lawyer, ALAN DERSHOWITZ, just in saying we only know a sliver of this. What we don't know is what we don't know and there is so much else to have a better informed conversation. We have to leave it there. James Bamford, thank you very much, writing the original book on the NSA and Kim Zetter with wired.com, thanks to both of you.

And now to this, a former U.S Navy SEAL part of this elite team with a big secret, a secret she says could have killed her. She's revealing her emotional transformation story to CNN. That's next.

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BALDWIN: In just a moment, you will meet someone who demonstrated bravery time and time again as a Navy SEAL serving this country with great strength and honor for 20 years. But now this person is showing a different kind of strength. Here is Anderson Cooper with the exclusive report.

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ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN'S "AC 360" (voice-over): Christopher Todd Beck enlisted with the military in 1990, with the dream of joining the U.S. Navy SEALs, the elite unit with a reputation for being one of the toughest, the fittest and most secretive forces in the U.S. military. Beck realized that dream serving for 20 years with the SEALs in some of the most dangerous battlegrounds around the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan.

A former Navy SEAL who knew Beck said he had a stellar reputation among his comrades. By the time he retired from service, in 2011, Beck had a long list of medals and accommodations including the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. But for 20 years while beck was fighting for his country, he was also fighting an inner battle, a battle over his gender identity.

Chris Beck wanted to live his life openly and honestly as a woman, which is what he started doing after he retired in 2011. Chris Beck is now Kristin Beck, on hormone replacement therapy, and feels like she's becoming the person she was always meant to be. It has been a long journey for Kristin to get to this point. She's written a book about her experience called "Warrior Princess," hoping to help others.

The book comes nearly two years after the Department of Defense repealed its "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, but gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality. Transgender men and women are still banned from service. The 20-year decorated combat veteran would not be allowed to serve in the military as she lives her life today. Anderson Cooper, CNN.

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BALDWIN: In an exclusive conversation with Anderson, Kristin explains how hard it was to hide who she was for two decades as a Navy SEAL.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: What would have happened if you had said to some of the SEALS you were serving with that this is who you are?

KRISTIN BECK, FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL: Well, it's probably very similar to some of the support I'm getting right now, but it would have been only that, you know, a few of them that would have accepted it and said, you're my brother and I have never seen you do anything wrong and totally honorable and it's good to go and they might have accepted it and maybe half and half, maybe less. I don't know. That's a chance that if I took it, I might be dead today.

COOPER: You might be dead because what?

BECK: If it got out while I was on active duty. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to say what the reaction would be.

COOPER: But that was an actual fear of yours, concern of yours, that if this got out, somebody might kill me in the field?

BECK: Yes. That's a fear I have right now. I don't know.

COOPER: You worry about that now?

BECK: Yes. There's a lot of prejudice out there. There have been a lot of transgender people who are killed for prejudice, for hatred. When the book came out, some amazing support and some amazing praises, but also some pretty amazing bigotry and hatred and they don't want to know. They make comments like I will never read that book. If you read could educate yourself a little bit. I don't want you to love me. I don't want you to like me, but I don't want you to beat me up and kill me. You don't have to like me. I don't care, but please don't kill me.

COOPER: Everybody knows that SEALs are incredibly strong. In my opinion, to do what you're doing now requires a whole different kind of strength.

BECK: I've seen that comment quite a bit and some SEAL team brothers said it is a whole different kind of courage. It is not something I look at myself and say, you know, I'm courageous, I never thought about it that way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: And that is just a piece of the interview. You can watch much more, go to cnn.com.

Coming up next, he has 22 children with 14 different women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was young, ambitious. I was just young and ambitious and I love women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, that may have been how he felt then. These ladies, they need some money. He owes tens of thousands of dollars in unpaid child support. We'll talk about him on the case next.

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BALDWIN: A Tennessee man has 22 children by 14 different women. He says ladies love him, but he's costing taxpayers a lot of money. Nick Beres with our affiliate WTVS has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted 50 kids.

NICK BERES, WTVF REPORTER: You're almost halfway there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want no more.

BERES (voice-over): Apparently 22 is now enough for Orlando Shaw.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't want no more kids. I want to be fixed.

BERES: That's his choice, and no one at the Davidson County Juvenile Court is going to object. Cases involving Shaw's children can fill an entire docket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Britain versus Shaw, Jenkins and Shaw, Williams and Shaw, Infeign and Shaw, Johnson/Shaw, different Johnson/Shaw --

BERES: The list goes on and on of the mothers represented by Child Support Services seeking support for their children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have never doubted Mr. Shaw's love for his children.

BERES: But Shaw is tens of thousands of dollars behind in support payments.

MAGISTRATE SCOTT ROSENBERG, DAVIDSON COUNTY TENNESSEE JUVENIAL COURT: What we're looking for is to come up with a solution to have parents be financially responsible for their children.

BERES: Magistrate Scott Rosenberg knows that would be good for both the children and the taxpayers. When Shaw doesn't pay, the state has to help support his kids. Consider $142 per child in temporary assistance, and another $200 or so in food stamps. Multiply that total by 22 kids and the state pays more than $7,000 each month. So how on earth does the man in he's early 30s explain fathering nearly two dozen children with more than 13 women? The only way to find out is to ask. That's what we did. Listen.

ORLANDO SHAW, FATHERED 22 KIDS BY 14 WOMEN: I love my kids. I could care less what anybody thinks about it.

BERES (on camera): Are you able to pay child support?

SHAW: I can't pay child support right now. They know I can't pay child support right now.

BERES: How do you father that many children to that many women?

SHAW: Pick them up, you got habit worked out.

BERES: What about contraception? Was that not an option for you?

SHAW: I was young, ambitious. I was just young and ambitious and I love women. You can knock no man for loving women.

BERES: Ladies like you?

SHAW: The ladies love me. They don't like me. They love me. The ladies love me. They don't like me.

BERES: You like the idea of having that many children out there that you fathered. Is that it?

SHAW: Yes, our legacy lives on. My family stays strong. I make sure we'll be here for years and years to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Sorry. Sorry. That was Nick Beres with our affiliate WTVF for that report. Straight face here because this is serious. You just heard he's costing the taxpayer more than $7,000 a month. CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin is in New York. I see that smile on your face. I mean, listen, you heard the women giggling as he was talking about loving women. But, but do these women, he said it himself, he can't pay child support. Do these 14 mothers have a chance of getting a dime from this guy?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I don't really think so. This has been a problem, Brooke, that you and I have talked about in particular. We talked about another case where there is a father that had fathered so many children. I think that this is a real problem affecting not only this gentleman, but other people as well. The federal government has even gotten involved in trying to help the state sort of crack down on these deadbeat dads.

I don't know that jail is really the option because you want them to be able to fulfill these child support obligations. If they're in prison, they're not making any money and not supporting their children. And so I think in cases like this, the real solution is perhaps probation as a condition of probation, make sure they have to get a job.

But in his case, he's saying that he's got a criminal history, so it is even more difficult for him to get employed. I think the advice of the women here is I think they have to get employment.

BALDWIN: Start working. What about the judge? What do you think is going through his head?

HOSTIN: You know, I would imagine he's thinking, how do I fix this? How do I help? That's what I was thinking about when I started researching this case. And I really do think that the solution here is trying to find this person some sort of employment because it really is about being personally financially responsible for your children.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you.

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BALDWIN: U.S. economy adding more jobs last month, even though unemployment rate went up. So some workers are depending on themselves for the paycheck. Tom Foreman with this week's "American Journey."

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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When this small tech company began out in Kansas, one of the founders, Dan Carol, knew he needed virtually no permanent staff, just talented temporary workers hired when needed and ready to embrace a new professional mantra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess the idea that the job you create for yourself is the most stable job you could have.

FOREMAN: He's not alone. One business study estimates there are already more than 17 million Americans who no longer work for companies, but sell their skills day by day. That number could jump to 23 million in the next few years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, freelancing is happening everywhere.

FOREMAN: At the Freelancer Union in New York, the founder, Sara Horowitz, knows all about it.

SARA HOROWITZ, FOUNDER, FREELANCERS UNION: It is really a phenomenon where people are hard working, and they're just putting together a bunch of projects and they work in fields ranging from being a doctor to a programmer to being a nanny.

FOREMAN: Not much like a traditional union, her group helps its members take on all the tasks that employers used to manage, networking for the next job, marketing skills, and the toughest part, managing health care. By combining their purchasing power, she says group members get insurance for 40 percent less than it would cost them individually. And for all the headaches --

HOROWITZ: Because they don't work that 9 to 5, they can be home when their kids get home from school. They can still do the things they love, the projects that many of us say, well, we'll do that when we retire.

FOREMAN: And she suspects many freelancers, despite some economic jitters, are feeling more free because they left the everyday office behind. Tom Foreman, CNN, Kansas City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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