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Bulger Trial Begins; Wildfires in Colorado; New Developments on Edward Snowden; Sarah Murnaghan Gets a Lung Transplant, in Surgery Now; Snowden to Chinese Newspaper, I am Not a Traitor

Aired June 12, 2013 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNNANCHOR: What happened to three women inside this Cleveland home sent shockwaves across the nation. Ariel Castro enters his plea on 329 counts.

And reputed mob boss Whitey Bulger facing 19 murder counts after years in hiding. It is day one of what could be Boston's biggest, baddest, ugliest trial ever.

But first here on the program, more than a dozen devastating wildfires are raging across the West. Some of the most dangerous and fastest growing are in Colorado where five fires are exploding in size and ferocity.

Scores of homes have burned down. Thousands of people have fled, sometimes really with just moments to spare.

We're expecting a news conference from there at any moment. We will bring that to you live as soon as it begins.

But in the meantime, let's go to our Dan Simon in Colorado Springs right by the fire. Dan, what's the latest?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, we're talking about very hot and windy conditions today, certainly not ideal for battling this wildfire. The real priority right now is making sure that they have enough firefighters on the front lines to battle this wildfire effectively.

Last night, we were told there were anywhere between 150 and maybe 300 firefighters. That's not enough when you're talking about a fire of this size.

As you said, this fire at this point has consumed dozens of homes. Right now, the official word is anywhere from 40 to 60 homes.

A lot of people have been evacuated. A lot of people congregated from the community at this news conference to listen in on what the fire officials are going to say, and I am told, John, that news conference is going to start momentarily.

BERMAN: And the news, Dan, zero percent contained, that fire, right now.

Also, the news -- we can see it right behind you -- dry, windy, wet -- dry, windy conditions right now, hot.

I think we have the sheriff who's starting to talk right now.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

SHERIFF TERRY MAKETA, EL PASO COUNTY, COLORADO: All right, good morning, everyone.

Take an opportunity to kind of give a brief update.

Last night, obviously, the plume died down. That's usually an indicator of activity, but the reality was we still had a lot of fire taking place.

Matter of fact, at one point, the lower right-hand corner where you see the red line on the map, shaded between the yellow and the -- looks like purple on there, the darker shaded area, we started getting fire movement in that area down there last night.

They were able to hold that line along Meridian. They had a lot of resources committed to holding a line on that side, but then again we're fighting the winds.

But I tell you, I was in there until 5:00 a.m. this morning, kind of checking out the areas and where the most activity was, and it was a very, very hot fire, even at 5:00 a.m. this morning.

Now, as we know, the winds are expected to pick up. We're going to be in a red flag warning day today. So what happens right now and what has happened up to this point is probably going to be pretty calm to what we can expect for the remainder of the day.

We have more resources arriving, as you have seen already. We've had aerial support up there as soon as they could get in and get the ground support to assist.

But this fire, as you well know, spread very rapidly yesterday. It moved through areas very quickly and consumed a lot of land.

So what I'll do is kind of just go through where we're still under a mandatory evacuation, which we expect that to remain in effect at least throughout today, completely today.

I know there's a lot of questions coming into our joint information center, asking when we can go home, when are we going to know on our homes? It's still a very hot and active fire area, and even this morning, you could hear explosions around some of the front line of that fire from propane tanks and other fuel sources.

(END LIVE FEED)

BERMAN: All right, you've been listening to the El Paso County sheriff, Terry Maketa, speaking in Colorado Springs now.

The news from there, frankly not great. He says it is a very hot fire, very hot even at 5:00 a.m. when he was out checking out the fire lines. Right now, he is expecting winds to pick up.

He thinks everything that has happened up until this point will be calm compared to what he expects to see today. In other words, it seems like it will get worse.

So let's bring in Chad Myers, meteorologist, right now, to get a sense of what the weather might hold today. Hot, dry, windy, it just doesn't sound good, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: No. And it's been dry now for a year there, John.

Seventy-two percent of Colorado is under a severe drought, or for that matter worse. All of Colorado is under some type of drought, and our Dan Simon right there in Colorado Springs, severe drought there.

Dry air out of the mountains, it's relative humidity this afternoon will be something sublime like five or eight percent. That is not going to help put any moisture back into those plants.

Plus, there's something called the Colorado Rocky Mountain beetle. That beetle has killed scores if not thousands of trees out there in Colorado, Utah. Those trees are dead and they're standing and they're waiting to burn.

This is going to be that Colorado and Western wildfire season that we certainly don't want to get to, but it's on its way now, John.

BERMAN: Chad, sounds like a really awful recipe right there, the insects, the dry, hot weather and, as we said, it could get worse as the day continues.

Chad Myers, thanks so much.

MYERS: You're welcome.

BERMAN: We're going to move on now to other news because we have some new developments from Hong Kong at this hour where Edward Snowden, the NSA leaker, is believed to be hiding out.

He has just given an exclusive interview to the "South China Morning Post." It's still not exactly clear where in Hong Kong he is, but he tells the newspaper his reasons for picking that place.

This is what he says. He says, "I am neither traitor nor hero. I'm an American. People who think I made a mistake in picking Hong Kong as a location misunderstand my intentions. I am not here to hide from justice. I am here to reveal criminality.

"My intention is to ask the courts and people of Hong Kong to decide my fate. I have been given no reason to doubt your system."

A lot to chew on right there about his reasons for picking Hong Kong.

Crime and justice correspondent Joe Johns joins us now live from Washington. Joe, besides this, what's the latest? JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Frankly, the headline on the story, John, is the NSA doesn't know where this guy is. The FBI is trying to help. They don't either.

There's been some report in the morning newspapers about a possible safe house, but if there is a safe house, nobody knows where it is.

If authorities were to actually get a hold of him, and if the United States Justice Department has already filed charges against him, the next step would be to try to revoke his passport, so that if he tried to pass from one country to another, he could be stopped, perhaps detained.

But that's all an open question because nobody knows where the suspect is, John.

BERMAN: By revoking his passport, it means he is in Hong Kong illegally. In theory, it means he could be picked up.

He's not the only one talking to the "South China Morning Post" right now. Later this afternoon, we will hear from the director of the NSA at a Senate appropriations hearing.

What can we expect him to say about the NSA leaks?

JOHNS: This is a spending hearing, so it's possible there will be a variety of topics discussed on Capitol Hill, but there's been a lot of heat from members of Congress about the electronic tracking program and disclosing more information so that the public can get a better sense of what it is, what it does, how it works, and how many telephone numbers or whatever they might have been able to take into the system, real interest in disclosing more.

One member of Congress told reporters yesterday he had no idea about the amount of information that was being taken in by the executive branch every day, so a growing concern there.

And, John, as you know, there's also threats of litigation involving the ACLU and others, just a variety of different threads of the story, all talking about disclosure and the need for more of it.

BERMAN: You know, it's an appropriations hearings, not usually tense moments at a hearing like that, but there's a lot of pent up frustration, a lot of questions that a lot of senators have been waiting to ask.

We can expect them today. There could be some fireworks.

Joe Johns, great to talk to you. Thanks so much.

Ahead here on the program, our take on "Daytime Justice," Edward Snowden still in hiding, as you heard, this as government lawyers working overtime making sure that once he is caught, that he faces the music.

So what charges could, should he face. Our legal panel weighs in, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: When I'm trying to look out for the red and the green light and listen to the message and keep my eye on the pylons, it was tougher than I thought it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Also on the program, CNN's Chris Lawrence wearing a funny hat, goes for a drive, all in the name of science, sort of.

So what's really going on here in the brain when we talk and drive. I promise you this is must-see television.

And later, let's say you're on the phone, you're driving and you crash. Should the police have the right to take your phone from you and search what calls, what texts you've made?

That's what cops in New Jersey want the power to do. The question is, is this even legal? The debate, later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, this just in. We're learning the young Philadelphia girl Sarah Murnaghan has received a lung transplant.

You'll remember, this has caused a great debate over transplant policy. She suffers from cystic fibrosis, a 10-year-old girl. She has needed a new lung. She was on the list for a child, a juvenile lung. She got on the adult list now.

Our Jason Carroll has new developments. Jason, what's the latest?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are just hearing now from Janet Murnaghan. That is Sarah Murnaghan's mother.

And basically what happened, John, the family got the word late last night at about 10:30 that a donor lung had become available.

Just about 30 minutes ago, we got word that Sarah Murnaghan will go into surgery this morning and also now, John, I do have a statement from Janet Murnaghan. That is Sarah Murnaghan's mother.

She says, quote, "God is great. He moved a mountain. Sarah got the call. She will be taken into the O.R. in about 30 minutes.

"Please pray for Sarah's donor, her hero who has given her the gift of life. Today their family experienced a tremendous loss. May God grant them a peace that surpasses understanding."

Once again, we have been covering this story, as you know, for some time about Sarah Murnaghan, 10-years-old, suffering from cystic fibrosis. Her family desperately for a year-and-a-half to two years, trying to get her a lung, and they basically challenged the system. They sued the system, the Department of Health and Human Services. Because she is under 12-years-old, they felt as though she was not treated fairly under the transplant system.

Their feeling was that those who are 12-years-and-older, according to the Health and Human Services policy, had more access to adult lungs, adult lung donations.

And so basically what they did, John, is they sued and that was last week. A judge ruled in their favor.

And then earlier this week, on Monday, in fact, United Network for Organ Sharing - that's basically the organization that oversees all of these lists, maintained the lists -- had an emergency meeting and basically had an interim change to their policy so now that people like Sarah, children like Sarah, another young man who's there as well, a little boy named Javier Acosta. He's 11-years-old in the same situation.

From now on these children will all, at least for the next year, have access to adult lungs based on meeting certain criteria.

So this is a huge, huge step for the family. Last week, they had a huge legal step, today a huge medical step now as Sarah heads into surgery now that she has received a donated lung.

BERMAN: Jason, such an emotional issue, such a complicated issue for so many people. I think the important thing right now, I think obviously 30 minutes before she heads into surgery, everyone's thoughts are with her and her family. I know you just spoke to them. Do you know if it was a child's lung she received or ultimately was it an adult lung that is the donated lung?

CARROLL: Good question, we're just getting this information now. No indication of who the donor was, but what we can tell you is that obviously when you get a donation like this, it is from someone who has recently been deceased. We don't know if it was an adult, we don't know if it was a child. We're just getting the information that she received the word last night at 10:30.

They're scheduled to go into surgery at about 11:00. Looking at the clock above me, says about 11:15. So, no indication of who the donor was, but you do see here from the statement that Janet Murnaghan submitted, which again is Sarah's mother, that she's calling whoever this person is a hero for giving Sarah the, quote, "gift of life."

BERMAN: Jason, thank you so much. You've had great reporting on this from very beginning. Great to hear from you as she heads into surgery.

With me now is Dr. Sanjay Gupta. I asked Jason a question we don't have the answer to, but it is an important question right now to know about the prospects for this surgery. Was it an adult lung donor or child donor. What difference does it make?

SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If it is an adult lung, it is coming down to something as simple as size, John. If you have a girl who's ten years old, in order to get adult lungs to simply fit, sometimes they may have to be trimmed, which involves removing portions of the lung, rendering them not useful, or taking only certain lobes of the lung.

It's a bit more of an involved operation. Also the blood vessels, you 're literally connecting blood vessel to blood vessel, there will be size differences. It is a technical issue for the surgeons more than anything else. The lung tissue themselves after that should work about the same. She's still going to have the same challenges with both, immuno suppression, still dealing with cystic fibrosis, potential infections in her body as a result of cystic fibrosis. Those challenges are still the same.

BERMAN: What are the prospects?

GUPTA: It is tough to say. Following the story from the beginning, we're not dealing with a situation you can say this is what happened the last 10,000 times, this is rare. Maybe a couple hundred lung transplants in children over the last ten years, in cystic fibrosis even fewer. Cystic fibrosis is a genetic disease, this won't be cured by the lung transplant. You know, I think people have all acknowledged that. It's -- I am a dad, you're a dad, it is a difficult thing emotionally, you want to do everything for your child, but this does not cure the disease. That's something the surgeons and her doctors have to contend with.

BERMAN: Buy some time, some years. I think everyone does identify though with these parents, any parent would do anything they could to buy any time for their child.

GUPTA: That's right.

BERMAN: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

I want to go to Jason Carroll right now. Jason, you have been speaking to the family. Do we expect to hear from them later today at the conclusion of the surgery?

CARROLL: That's what we're hoping for and certainly that's a possibility. Obviously right now Janet Murnaghan, Sarah's mother, wants to be with her, by her daughter's side. Through a family spokeswoman we have been dealing with as well, we are hoping to hear from the family perhaps very late today. Dr. Gupta would know better than I would in terms of how long a surgery like this would last, and of course, you know, there are no guarantees. It is a delicate surgery, it is a difficult surgery, especially when you're dealing with children, so there's still a lot of factors and variables to deal with here before Janet Murnaghan, again, Sarah's mother, would be willing to come down and speak to the media, but once they feel as though Sarah is in the clear, I am told the family will come out and make some sort of statement.

BERMAN: Thank you so much, Jason. Before we go to break, let me ask Dr. Sanjay Gupta, how long is the surgery. GUPTA: You heard, so Jason said last night at 10:30 is when she got the call, the operation is going to begin in a half hour. So there's a lot of coordinated steps over the last 12 hours that have taken place. What's happening now, likely John, is that the organs, lungs in this case are being removed. At the same time, she's going to be prepped for surgery, Sarah will be prepped for surgery. These two things are coordinated, happening simultaneously.

The operation itself which involves removing her lungs, putting in new lungs, probably several hours. After that, patients are often intentionally kept sedated for some time, in terms of how she's doing, which is the question everyone wants to know, that could be late into the night or tomorrow morning.

BERMAN: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Obviously we will be following this story as it develops. Jason Carroll has fantastic contacts and a great relationship with the family, he will bring us the latest as it comes in. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back. We mentioned a little while ago that Edward Snowden insists he is not a traitor. The NSA leaker told "The South China Morning Post" why he blew the whistle on NSA, he says "I am neither traitor nor hero, I'm an American." His words. More of his words, "People will think I made a mistake picking Hong Kong as a location misunderstand my intentions. I am not here to hide from justice, I am here to reveal criminality. My intention is to ask the courts and people of Hong Kong to decide my fate. I have been given no reason to doubt your system."

Question is what kind of charges could be brought against Snowden? Take a listen to what former U.S. attorney general Alberto Gonzales told us on this program Yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Clearly there's an unlawful publication of classified information. That in and of itself is a violation of the Espionage Act. So I think that this young man is in some serious legal jeopardy quite frankly. It is interesting that I think he made this disclosure on a matter of principle, yet he is not willing to stand behind that principle, feels like he needs to go into hiding. I think what's happened here is very, very unfortunate. I think it could do serious damage to the national security of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Meanwhile, there's anger, outrage, and now lawsuits from Americans, at least two civil lawsuits have been filed against federal officials, so let's bring in the defense attorney Danny Cevallos in Philadelphia and prosecutor from Brooklyn DA's office, Christine Grillo.

Christine let me start with you. There are two lawsuits filed against the federal government, one by a Philadelphia couple who alleged they were singled out for electronic surveillance because they criticized the U.S. military, the other lawsuit from American Civil Liberties Union, a Verizon customer, by the way. The question is, will either of these lawsuits hold water?

CHRISTINE GRILLO, PROSECUTOR, BROOKLYN D.A. OFFICE: Well, it all depends. It's going to have to be an investigation, looking into the facts of it. If these are true allegations and they have the facts to back them, they will hold water, they can file some successful lawsuits if their rights have been infringed upon as they claim.

BERMAN: But it has to show something specific. We have been harmed in this way. Would it be more than just the government has a ton of our data on file they have touched?

GRILLO: Yes. There has to be some damages. You have to prove some damages. You can't say I don't like what they've done, I don't like that they have this information, therefore I am going to sue and I should be successful. Show us how you have been damaged and that this lawsuit is warranted.

BERMAN: Danny, let's shift to the case against Edward Snowden right now. The government is preparing charges. When they are finished with the charges, how tough will it be to extradite Snowden from Hong Kong or, as Joe Johnson reported before, revoke his passport, get him back that way?

DANNY DEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first we have to go back and look at what is Hong Kong? Hong Kong was turned back over to China back in 1997 by the UK. As we stand today, it operates somewhat independently, but ultimately does answer to Beijing, which is the capital of China, it is part of china. So while it has its own --

BERMAN: We lost audio from Danny. Let me ask Christine to finish up part of this question. If the U.S. does want to get hold of Snowden in Hong Kong, who physically goes to get him?

GRILLO: That's a good question, but the point is first we have to if we are going to abide by the extradition procedures, that is the question to be answered first off because there has been prior case law that has allowed the United States to just go in, and if you would kidnap the suspect and bring them back, and that shouldn't stop us from then proceeding with charges against them if we have them here in the United States.

What you first have to see is what kind of extradition act Hong Kong has and what our agreement is with them. And if that is so, if he waives extradition, which if he is claiming he is doing this, has the rights to do this, and Snowden released all of this information, if he is doing it just for the betterment of the constitution rights and he didn't do anything wrong, he should waive extradition, and in that case he would just come back based on we would go get him, he would agree to come back and face the charges if he claims he had the right to do this.

BERMAN: See if that happens. All right, Christine Grillo, Danny Cevallos, we will come back to you in just a moment.

In the meantime, three women held captive more than a decade, their release gripped the nation. Now the man charged faces 329 counts. He faced the music in court today. We will go live to Cleveland in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)