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Trust Fund Kid on Trial; What`s At Stake In Trial?

Aired June 13, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a grisly killing in a bathtub at the hands of a messed-up rich kid. Was Nicholas Brooks a no- good trust fund baby who strangled and drowned his beautiful girlfriend? Could her demands that he for instance get a job a motive? Did his sister publicly call a witness a quote awful (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

Plus, a possible delay in the Jodi Arias retrial. Why prolong the pain for Travis Alexander`s devastated siblings?

Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host, Sirius XM Radio host and attorney Jenny Hutt. We`ve got a lot to get into tonight.

Jenny, big news on the Jodi Arias trial. And we will hear from her best friend tonight.

But first, Sylvie Cachay, a beautiful young swimsuit designer, found dead in a bathtub at an exclusive New York City club, her boyfriend Nicholas brooks stands accused of murder. New details coming to light about the couple`s rocky relationship.

But before we get into that let`s look at how we got here.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What these men do to my daughter ruin my lives, ruin my family, he has to pay.

REPORTER: Inside, they found the body of Sylvie Cachay, the swimsuit designer dead lying in the tub.

PINSKY (voice-over): Partially clothed in an overflowing bathtub at New York`s exclusive Soho House.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hated taking baths.

HUTT: A socialite does not take a bath in a hotel bathtub.

PINSKY: Her boyfriend, Nicholas Brooks, is charged with choking and drowning her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn`t care. I didn`t see any remorse. He has to pay for my daughter`s life, for her beautiful life.


PINSKY: Joining us, attorney Mark Eiglarsh from, although I don`t recognize him without a tie. I don`t know who that is sitting in the box. It`s supposed to be Mark Eiglarsh.

Former prosecutor Loni Coombs.

MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: It`s casual Thursday.

PINSKY: I hope so.

Loni Coombs, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell," and attorney Lauren Lake.

All right. Guys, first, let me go out to Anne Peyton Bryant. She`s a matrimonial and family law attorney who`s been in court in support of the family for the entire trial.

Peyton, I want to ask you, what are some of the details that have come out in court that indicate to you that this was, in fact, murder?

ANNE PEYTON BRYANT, ATTORNEY: Well, the defendant has a really serious timeline issue. He was in the room for seven minutes while the hotel was receiving complaints about water overrunning into other rooms. And he doesn`t leave the room until seven minutes later. So that alone I think is a big smoking gun.

Also, I think everyone thinks that this took place in a bathroom. The tub in this case was in the middle of the room, was a big, glam rules tub. And his DNA was found on the tub box where the controls were. There were also a pair of socks that were soaked on the floor. The rug was soaked.

And I think one of the most -- the biggest issue is she was clothed. She was found in a turtleneck with her underwear on and a very expensive Rolex watch that was given to her by her family. So I think when you put all these things together -- I mean, there`s so many more facts I could give you, it was clearly no one else had the opportunity to do this. And - -

PINSKY: Certainly something -- thank you, Peyton, we`re going to get back to you later in the show.

But, Jenny, certainly something went down in that room for sure. And I want you to emphasize again what you said last night, which is that these socialite or people that are -- I don`t know what you want to call it. She`s not going to a bathtub.

HUTT: No, I think most people -- most people know that bathtubs in hotels are not really sanitary. And we tend to shower and not take baths in them, and especially a socialite who`s maybe well-traveled.

It`s gross. She wouldn`t have done that.

PINSKY: With a Rolex on.

HUTT: And one of her friends even said that on the stand.

PINSKY: Now, this week, after one of Sylvie`s friends testified in court, Nicholas` sister allegedly mouthed the words "awful bitch." Mark, my question is, is the court going to tolerate that, could she get in trouble?

EIGLARSH: She could, but this is a very emotionally charged case. I think that the judge will give everyone a little leeway. That`s all.

PINSKY: I want everybody to look at their monitor right now. Doesn`t Mark look about eight years younger with that casual outfit? He looks a little less like an undertaker, a little more like a horse wrangler.


EIGLARSH: Move along, Drew.

PINSKY: Just saying. Also, Loni, do you disagree with Mark?

LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: No, I agree. She was calling her name -- I had a witness testify and someone in court went like this while they were testifying. You know, and that was much more serious, kind of a death threat. And the judge admonished them and said, next time you`re going to be kicked out of the courtroom.

You know, emotions run high. They didn`t yell out. I agree with Mark that the judge will give her a pass.

PINSKY: Also this week, one of her friends took the stand and testified that Sylvie complained that Brooks constantly demanded sex from her. She used to refer to it I guess as "porn sex" saying, "He told me he wanted to have sex all the time like a, you know, the F-word, rabbit."

So, Lauren, does this sort of testimony have an impact on the jury?

LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, of course, when you hear about highly sexualized people it could turn some members of the jury completely off. And also, when you think about this young man`s background, we`re going to talk about I`m sure at some point, you know, his mom being a "Playboy" model, his father in the issue with the prostitutes and hiring them.

This could definitely turn some of the jurors off and make them think like, oh, this guy is a freak, this guy did have something to hide. Maybe he would kill her to cover something up.

PINSKY: Let me reinforce what Lauren just said. Mark, I`m going to go to you, which is that his mom was evidently on the cover of "Playboy" at one time. His dad had legal issues and had gone to prostitutes apparently -- Mark?

EIGLARSH: OK, we cannot talk about the evidence without talking about the medical examiner`s report. To me we don`t have to get into a gray of whether a socialite would bathe in a tub, some would, some wouldn`t, I`ll go with Jenny on that. What doesn`t lie are potential strangulation marks around her neck and the other physical evidence that clearly shows that this was some type of strangulation.


PINSKY: Now, the fact is we`re going to have a couple of medical -- we have a CSI investigator and medical examiner later in the show to talk about these specific pieces of evidence. And in fact, what I`m hearing is that there`s deep tissue injury that was discovered by the medical examiner in the neck, suggesting that there was strangulation.

You mentioned Nicholas` mom, she was in court supporting her son, she was on the cover of "Playboy" back in 1978. We have a picture of that cover. There she is. His father bought prostitute, his mother is a "Playboy" model.

Loni, does that make any difference when people bring that into the courtroom?

COOMBS: You know, I really don`t think it has anything to do with this case. It makes it scintillating and maybe more interesting. But I don`t think it has anything to do with the evidence of what happened in the room that night or leading up to it and what the motive might have been.

And the judge really is doing what they can to keep out the stuff about his father being arrested for, you know, sexual charges and the fact that they might have been going to prostitutes.

The judge is really limiting that stuff and I think that`s smart because you want the jury to stay focused on the physical evidence, on the medical evidence, on the letter and the e-mail that was going on just before her life was taken.

PINSKY: We`re going to talk about that letter and the e-mail. But, first, we want to back to Peyton who`s been in the courtroom and ask her about that medical examiner`s report. What do we not know that you heard in court?

BRYANT: First, we haven`t heard from the medical examiner yet. We`ve only heard the opening argument and the evidence that will be presented. But most of the medical evidence hasn`t been presented yet.

PINSKY: What are we going to hear?

BRYANT: So that`s where we are at this stage.

PINSKY: What are we going to hear? What`s your speculation?

BRYANT: You`re going to hear her lungs were twice the size of human lungs, they were filled with CO2, that the cause of death was drowning, that she had marks on -- internally but not on the outside of her lips, which indicate that someone put their hand over her mouth and pushed down. So there`s just so many details here that point to an obvious --

PINSKY: Murder?

BRYANT: -- strangulation, and then he drowned her.

PINSKY: And, Lauren, I see you shaking your head no. Mind you, this guy was doing drugs and alcohol that night. The police had to wait to interview him, he was so intoxicated, they couldn`t even interview him at first.

BRYANT: Yes, I`d also like to point out not only that, they left him for several hours so that he could sober up that he appeared high on cocaine --

PINSKY: That`s what I`d heard.

BRYANT: -- also drunk. And that there was testimony that he left the hotel room for a period of time. He went down and had a shot of whiskey, a beer, and cigarettes. He spoke to hotel staff and said that he wanted to get drunk. Then he went back up to the hotel room. He was there for about a half an hour. The water leaks started happening and he was still in the hotel room for seven more minutes before he left and he went out and drank again all night long and did cocaine.

PINSKY: Got it.

BRYANT: Then shows back up at the hotel.

PINSKY: Got it.

Jenny, last word, last thoughts.

HUTT: Yes, I was just going to say, it`s another tell that she was upset that he constantly wanted to have sex with her. If you`re in a relationship, you really like the person and you`re hunger, happy that they want you. So, the fact that she was not happy, clearly, that was another sign --

PINSKY: Well, funny you would say that, because next up -- not funny ha ha, funny coincidence, because the behaviorist examine the motives for murder including a threatening e-mail she sent just hours before she died, and also this issue of their sexuality and the sexual behaviors between them.

Later on, there he is, my forensic experts, they have their own theory about what really happened in the bathtub. I`m certain it didn`t include latex gloves.

Back after this.


PINSKY: Time now for the behavior bureau. Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt.

So, we`re going to talk a little bit about motive and the craziness that surrounded these two. Joining to us investigate, criminal investigation Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal"; forensic and criminal psychologist Cheryl Arutt; Samantha Schacher, host of "Young Turks" on "Pop Trigger"; and clinical psychologist, Wendy Walsh, author of "30-Day Love Detox."

So we`ve got a to-do list, I`ve got it right here, from Sylvie Cachay to her boyfriend Nicholas Brooks, five pages of things she wanted him to comply with -- I hear sighing already, who was that? Was that Jenny, was that you sighing?

HUTT: I`m sure, yes.

PINSKY: Listen, I`m sure you had these kinds of conversations with men before.

HUTT: Let me tell you something.

PINSKY: It included by the way put the toilet seat down. That`s a conversation I know all of you have had.


PINSKY: All right, thank you. But it happened to be in writing, it was extensive, included a lot about drugs and alcohol. But go ahead, Jenny.

HUTT: I`ve not made a list for any guy I`ve ever been with about the things that I want or expect him to do. Now, did she deserve to die? Of course not. This guy`s a monster. But the list thing, I -- I just never did that.

PINSKY: There it is. If her handwriting. By the way we get a handwriting expert in here to take a look at that one of these days.

HUTT: So sad.

PINSKY: Samantha, she told him to get a job, get out of bed, stop smoking pot, clean up after himself. What`s going on here? She`s like a successful woman, a socialite, and this guy is sort of freeloading in her apartment and living off of her. What`s going on?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he was essentially living off of her. She was supporting him emotionally and financially. He came off very entitled, almost riding on the coattails of his dad`s Oscar- winning, composing career success.

And, you know what, at the end of the day, though, a lot of women can relate to her. Maybe not to the extent of a to-do list like she made for Nicholas Brooks but a lot of women have been blinded by lust or love, and she did tell her friends that she had crazy chemistry with him.

So, you know what, maybe she thought she could change him.

PINSKY: All right. So I get --


PINSKY: I`m going to get to you, Wendy. Here`s the deal is that I wish -- yes, with a panel, I have a thing over here where I get to see my panel. While Samantha was talking all these heads are nodding, oh, yes, what are you going to do?

So, Wendy, go ahead, tell us.

WALSH: Of course, nobody deserves to die. But Dr. Drew, I`m going to quote you here. She was having intensity over intimacy, wasn`t she?

PINSKY: That`s right.

WALSH: And then after all the intensity and the clouds started to part a little bit, she looked and said, oh. He`s not even anywhere near a good boyfriend. Let me give him a little list of to-dos and see if I could shape him up, which by the way anything she asked for was not strange, it was very normal, it`s what everyone would expect of a boyfriend. But she should have had those expectations met first before the crazy intensity.

PINSKY: And, Danine, you`ve got a big smile on your face, go ahead.

WALSH: She was obviously getting something out of this teal. Maybe it was satisfying the need to have maternal instinct, their needing to mother or take care. She was obviously getting something out of this.

You`re not going to stay in a situation like this, not even for a little while, where you are carrying all this weight and you`re doing everything for this person unless there`s something. I don`t know what it was.

PINSKY: Jenny then Cheryl.

Jenny, go.

HUTT: I think maybe the crazy sex, maybe the chemistry was the crazy sex, and that is a super-powerful thing, that can seriously make you lose all sense of right and wrong in that time frame.


HUTT: It`s powerful.

PINSKY: Cheryl, I`m thinking of something you said about Jodi Arias having had her brains affected.

ARUTT: You mean intercoursing her brains out?

PINSKY: Right, I think that was the statement.

HUTT: Yes.

ARUTT: I think that may have happened here. But why are we focusing so much on Sylvie and why she didn`t leave him sooner? You know? I mean, here, this guy Nicholas Brooks had a roadmap to success and a roadmap to failure and jail and prison laid out in really neat, reasonable way. And he could not get out of his own way. One way led to success, the other was just catastrophe. He really messed up.

PINSKY: No kidding. And here`s -- even if he didn`t commit the murder, he put himself in a situation where it looks as though he did. And here`s what Cheryl`s talking about.

Sylvie wrote an e-mail to Nicholas just hours before she died, subject line: F-U. Fantastic. "For the past six months, I`ve supported you financially and emotionally. The fact that you cheated on me makes me sick and you will f`ing pay. I`m speaking with the credit card company and the police and I am going to tell them that I never allowed you to use my card, I don`t care, have fun in jail."

Samantha -- go ahead, Danine, was this enough to push him over the edge into some violence?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I don`t know if it`s enough to push him over the edge, but I mean, I just think that this whole relationship was something that worked for them. A lot of people have these real dramatic relationships where they make up to break up and they have this great makeup sex and all that.

I think that all of this was just the type of drama they were both drawn to. I think he was a deadbeat and she was drawn to this type of back and forth relationship. And unfortunately, it ended up being the cause of her demise.


ARUTT: I don`t know.

PINSKY: Cheryl, I see -- I see drug addiction.


PINSKY: That`s the headline here for me.

ARUTT: On his part.

PINSKY: On his part, and codependency on her part, simplistic way of looking at this. And when you hang around with people, doing a lot of drugs -- I mean, he might have don something in a blackout for goodness` sakes, who even knows here.

ARUTT: He might have. But she said, get out. If you can`t do these things I don`t want to be with you.

WALSH: She didn`t actually. You know what she said? Or we might not be together. And she us a said, I`m going to call the cops. She didn`t -- if you`re going to call the cops you do it.



SCHACHER: A lot of threats. A lot of threats hoping to get him to add up and be the guy that she hoped he would become.

ARUTT: Right.

PINSKY: How was -- how is this viewed in the community before, I`m wondering Samantha, before the murder? How was that relationship viewed by people that were socializing with them? Were people concerned about this?

SCHACHER: Well, a lot of her friends knew they had a tumultuous relationship.

PINSKY: Tumultuous? Knew he was an addict? I don`t know him, looks like drug addiction to me, call me crazy.

SCHACHER: He also was very charming, some of head of friends said. She had a very great lifestyle. She was very well known for her fashion mind and working with Tommy Hilfiger and Victoria`s Secret, she was a member of the Soho House, which as really exclusive membership. I tried to get into the Soho House, they didn`t let me in.


PINSKY: Of course not, of course not. Hey, wait a minute. Before you do, I want to get to this business about them having had porn sex, in the courtroom people were complaining she was being dogged for sex. That may have been normal young male stuff, right? Do we have to call him -- the intensity, again, we`ve talked about, can be part of that.

Wendy, do you think?

WALSH: Well, she did ask on her list for him to take her on more dates and actually cuddle after sex and say sweet things. What I think she was missing is, of course, the emotional connection with him. He said he was imitating this porn life rather than actually having a sexual relationship that involve good foreplay and after-play and all the things that bond couples and bring them closer. He was more like masturbating with her body.

PINSKY: And, Cheryl, I hear more complaints like this from women every day. I think the sex had been pornified for young people.

ARUTT: It does. And I think it does men a disservice as well as women. I think that men who learn from porn how to be a lover are dissatisfying their partners, they feel inadequate and fall short. I think that -- you know, I`m not saying all porn is a bad thing but I think if people look at that as their primary way of learning how to be sexual with somebody, I think that it ends up taking a lot of the fun out of it.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys. Well done. Now, if you viewer have a comment for the behavior bureau you can tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau and we will try to get the questions here on the air or answer them perhaps on our Web site.

Next, if Sylvie Cachay wanted to take a bath why was she still wearing clothing?

And later, a court-ordered clampdown as we get ready for Jodi Arias round two. We have some breaking news on that. We have an interview with a close friend of Jodi`s.

Be right back.


PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host Jenny Hutt.

Sylvie Cachay was found dead in an overflowing bathtub, submerged face-up and partially clothed, accidental drowning or murder? We`re trying to figure that out tonight. Joining us to discuss, Mark Eiglarsh and our own forensic investigators, pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd and CSI expert Dr. Randolph Beasley.

Before I go to my panel, I want to remind people that I did say I have afternoon interview with Jodi Arias` very close friend. It`s an interview conducted by Jane Velez-Mitchell this evening.

We`ll be sharing outtakes of that with you tonight and our panels will be analyzing.

Bill Lloyd, how can you tell the difference between a drowning and a strangulation?

DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: When somebody is strangled, their airway is collapsed. There`s going to be crush injuries. Not just on the skin, not always on the skin. But you`re going to find damage deep inside. You`re going to find bruises. You`re going to find fractures to the larynx, to the trachea, that keeps the person from breathing.

Now, with the lungs and drowning a normal person has a lung full of air. When you die, under normal circumstances, the air leaves the lungs and at autopsy, the lung is about the size of a soft softball. But in this case, the lung of Sylvie was back to the regular full size and it was full of water. The water had gone down the airway that was partially crushed from the strangulation.

PINSKY: Randolph Beasley, "A," do you agree with Bill Lloyd`s take on all this? And let me just sort of preload you with some information.

I`m hearing there was a lot of -- the medical examiner`s going to say that there was deep soft tissue injury in the neck, hemorrhage. There was not larynx injury per se. And there was only prescribed therapeutic level of medication which I`m hearing was alprazolam or Xanax, which, whatever, maybe she legitimately was taking that.

Your take?

RANDOLPH BEASLEY, FORENSIC CRIME SCENE EXPERT: Exactly, Dr. Drew. I think first of all, because this is a strangulation case and there`s no knife involved, I think we ought to refer to Dr. Lloyd on this case as Dr. Big Gulp. I`m just saying. Maybe --

PINSKY: Let`s go back out to the panel. Put the panel up.

Thankfully, Mark Eiglarsh is here on this panel to endorse that name if it`s appropriate. Now that you`re wearing your coat, Mark, we can take you more seriously.

EIGLARSH: Somebody brought me this jacket like it`s a fancy restaurant or something, you`ve got to wear a jacket, come on.

PINSKY: All right. Randolph, go ahead.

BEASLEY: OK. Yes, the fact that there`s trauma on both sides of her neck, of course, is indication, classic strangulation. They could argue if there was only trauma on one side of her neck, maybe she slipped and hit her neck at that location and fell into the tub.

But classic, classic heat of passion for a strangulation to occur and probably occur somewhere else and then the bathtub drowning is staged, of course. And I`ve had cases like that that I`ve investigated. So it`s just classic.

The injuries to the victim are what really tell the tale here.

PINSKY: OK, Mark, so what we`re hearing from our experts is that it was strangulation, perhaps it was part of their sexual repertoire. But it went too far, let`s say. He was drunk. He didn`t realize what he had done. And then he tries to stage a drowning.

Do you buy that?

EIGLARSH: Well, I don`t know about that first part. I don`t think anyone can speculate because she`s dead why he strangled her, allegedly, whether it was because there was some concern that she was going to out him over the credit -- fraudulent credit card use or what.

But my question to the experts is, they seem to be consistent in what they`re saying, that this clearly -- the injury shows a certain tale of murder. But the defense apparently has their own expert. And I want to know what the expert`s going on say, how they could possibly say that the injuries don`t show that.

PINSKY: Randolph?

BEASLEY: Well, it would being from. I`ve had a defense where the expert said it was a sex, rough sex type of a thing. So who knows if that`s going to go? Of course, the circumstantial evidence of an argument before and everything else involved with his actions, that`s not consistent.

PINSKY: Dr. Lloyd?

LLOYD: Yes, I want to ask about those autopsy records. So many trials that we`ve talked about, the evidence is there, as a matter of public record. Mark, does the defense have access to these autopsy records? It seems like nobody else does.

EIGLARSH: Yes, the defense would get a hold, sure.

PINSKY: Let`s look at some animation of what might have happened. My crack producing team has put something together that I have not seen yet but let`s take a look. This first animation is what happens if she had taken something and died accidentally. Apparently, there was again therapeutic levels of Xanax in her system. This is very high-tech stuff we`re watching here.

HUTT: I`m just -- I keep -- the bottle of pills, Drew, I keep a Xanax in my bag at all times. It`s not a big bottle, it`s a little teeny Xanax --

EIGLARSH: Drew, we`re talking about therapeutic amounts. How do you drown in a bathtub?

LLOYD: That doesn`t explain the fractured larynx. That doesn`t explain the fractured larynx.

PINSKY: That`s correct. And, again, alcohol could have been involved. Let`s see the second animation which I think perhaps is more satisfying than the first. OK, this is actually showing --

HUTT: I can`t -- so an alien came in and strangled her?

EIGLARSH: Objection, objection.

PINSKY: Really? We had to have an animation to understand what strangulation is?

HUTT: With blue arms.

PINSKY: Jenny, let me just say that the -- wow. Jenny, you looked crestfallen when we talked about this case. You actually look like you`re getting emotional as we talked about what possibly went on here. We were talking about it in abstract. You looked like somebody who was relating as a woman to what went down here. What was so upsetting to you?

JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Yes. Well, first of all, the whole thing was upsetting, because I don`t believe this was a rough sex gone wrong. I think he was angry and he strangled her. And then, I also think it wasn`t immediate that he then put her body in the bathtub. He left, he came back. There might have been a moment where he panicked and was like, oh my God, I might have killed her.

But the whole thing just reeks of something unbelievably awful and it`s every parent`s worst nightmare for this sort of thing to happen to their kid. And she was a young girl. It`s just unbelievably upsetting, my gosh.

PINSKY: Thank you for bringing it back to center, Jenny. I appreciate that. It is a sad, sad tale. And you`re right. Parent`s worst nightmare.

Next, we have breaking news ahead about the Jodi Arias trial and we`ll hear what Jodi`s best friend told HLN Jane Velez-Mitchell earlier today.

And later, how the Zimmerman jury may be different from the Arias jury?

VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," we`ve got two bold questions tonight. One of them, did Trayvon Martin attack George Zimmerman, because that`s the cornerstone of the defense.

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: That`s right. And the other one, will the jury`s race affect the verdict? Now, we`ve got our own in-studio potential jury. You know why, Vinnie?

POLITAN: Very diverse, too.

SMITH: Oh, yes. You know why?


SMITH: We`re going to cut them down to six.

POLITAN: Only six will survive. All right. That`s coming up top of the hour, "HLN After Dark."



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remember walking out my back door screaming, crying at the sky, asking why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to do the best to speak on behalf of my family. My family that has been tortured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have nightmares about somebody coming at me with a knife and then going after my wife and my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Losing Travis has completely destroyed the overall health of our family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been on several different antidepressants. Unfortunately, none of them really worked.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt and Mark Eiglarsh, Lauren Lake, Cheryl Arutt, Loni Coombs are all still with me. Here`s what we`re going to look at. Jury foreman, Will Zervakos. He has been scapegoated for voting against the death penalty. Here`s what he told KTVK`s Mike Watkiss about the threats he is receiving.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, I took some seriously, but I didn`t really get anything that would make me, you know, make me pause or felt like my family was in danger. I just feel like people quite honestly are stupid. Just calling me a dirty old man. People that make stupid remarks like that, I mean, it`s just not worth wasting time with.

No, we didn`t check them out. To check them out would be, OK, all right. They didn`t want to do it. OK, whatever. That would have been chickening out.


PINSKY: And on -- a reminder on Monday, he will join me in a primetime exclusive interview. He wants to come clean about all this and talk about these threats he`s getting. Going out right now first to Shanna Hogan, investigative reporter and author of the upcoming Jodi Arias book, "Picture Perfect." Shanna, you`ve got some breaking news. Go ahead.

SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST: Yes, Dr. Drew. Huge news just today. The defense team has filed a motion to continue, meaning they are waiting, they want the penalty phase of the trial to start in January 2014, which is a significant delay from the current July 18th trial date that it`s supposed to start on.

PINSKY: Now, Jodi`s friend, Patty, was supposed to testify during the mitigation phase on Jodi`s behalf but became frightened by all the same stuff that the foreman is getting. Listen to what she told Jane Velez- Mitchell just a short time ago.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They posted my address, my home address with a description of what my house looks like with a map. They`re hacking into my Facebook, stealing pictures of me and my daughter. I`m worried that, you know, this is all going to start over again. And I`m just now feeling better about my safety, and you know, just my mental health.

I never expected this, you know? I don`t know. I mean -- you could never tell. She was such a good person. And knowing that I shared so many good memories with her. We`ve all lost somebody in this horrible situation.


PINSKY: All right. I want to get everyone`s reaction to this. I`m going to start with Lauren Lake. Go ahead.

LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: It hurts me. And, I`m going to say this, Dr. Drew. I am getting so sick and tired of this new culture of aggression that we`re exhibiting in this country where when someone is called on to tell their truth, that if it`s not the truth you want to hear, you get to bully them and somehow threaten their lives, make them uncomfortable. It`s just not right.

And as a person, really, that makes a living giving opinions that are not always popular, you know, I can take the heat, but everyone can`t. And it`s truly affecting our justice system. People who have the right to come in and tell their truth under oath, to maybe a friend that they have, you know, we have to stop this.

I mean, I almost came to tears when she started tearing up, because that was her friend. We may hate her, but that`s her friend and she has a truth to tell and she`s entitled to tell it.


LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: You know, Dr. Drew, I think this is so important. I`m so glad you`re talking about this. I feel extremely passionate about this. I dedicated 18 years of my life putting the most dangerous people away behind bars. And it`s an important part of our society, the criminal justice system which keeps us from disintegrating into chaos.

But what we saw in this trial, we`ve been seeing a little bit more and more over the years, is extremely frightening, where the public is becoming so invested that they`re starting to attack people who are not to blame. They didn`t commit the crime. They`re coming in and they`re testifying as experts. They`re testifying as witnesses.

They`re friends of the victim -- or the defendants. They are not the ones to blame. And when we attack them, at the least it`s bullying or emotional -- you know, infliction of emotional distress. At worst, it becomes vigilantism and it really threatens the core of the integrity of our justice system where people are going to become frightened for their own lives if they participate in this justice system.

And I`ll tell you, we`ve got a real problem on our hands if we don`t step back and we all need to be reminding people and encouraging people, you can be passionate about it, but we need to have these boundaries. We need to respect people that are participating and doing the right thing, jurors, witnesses. We need these people to make the justice system work, and we can`t be attacking them like this.

PINSKY: By the way, how about just attacking people for expressing their First Amendment privilege? I`m just saying. But Jenny, go ahead. And by the way, I want -- hang on, before you talk, I want to ask the control room. You know what I like to do, I want to finish going to everybody on the panel.

If you wouldn`t mind, I`d like to replay the tape, because this really struck a chord with all of us. If we could replay Patty`s tape after we`ve gone around -- Jenny, Mark, and Cheryl. Then, jenny, go ahead.

HUTT: I just feel like it`s a little bit of a witch hunt in a way.

PINSKY: Of course, it`s the same thing. I`ve been thinking of the guillotine. It`s revolutionary France. That`s what happened there.

HUTT: Right. We don`t have access to Jodi, direct access, but we sure do have direct access to this woman who`s done nothing wrong other than she wants to maybe talk about someone who used to be her friend and this happened and it`s awful. So, I don`t like that mentality. It`s bullying and these people need to be spanked.


MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: The only thing I can add to what was so eloquently stated by your other guests is the following. Putting aside Jodi Arias for one second, if it`s one of your loved ones, and it can be, because it has been. When I`ve defended people in the system for close 20 years now, and what happens is you have a witness who can exonerate your loved one, but they don`t want to come to court. They don`t want to come forward, because either the mob mentality or because they`re just so fearful of what`s going to happen when they get to court. Think about it that way and maybe you say, you know what, you`re right, this shouldn`t happen anymore.

PINSKY: Cheryl, I`m saying that social media one of the consequences, it may be a great thing, but one of the consequences, the application of mob.

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., @CHERYLARUTT: Absolutely. And the loss of privacy. People feel like -- they feel so incredibly violated. It was so intrusive for Patty to have her Facebook pictures, her child put out there. She was not probably just concerned about herself but also concerned about her child. And we need to make sure that people feel like they can come forward and they can speak.

And if people are too intimidated to be able to speak their truth, this whole system isn`t going to work. All the guests spoke so beautifully about this, but I just want to remind everybody. You`re entitled to whatever feelings you have. But the system should work. And if somebody says, this is my best friend and I only saw the greatest person on Earth, and then the jury looks at all of the evidence, it will still work.

They`ll still see all these other things. We shouldn`t be so threatened by hearing multiple points of view.

PINSKY: We`re not saying Patty was accurate in her perceptions of Jodi Arias. We`re, in fact, saying she lost a fantasy version of what Jodi was. She can`t believe that Jodi was capable of murder. Guess what? She was. You had a misperception, but she`s still entitled to safely testify in court. Let`s replay that tape.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They posted my address, my home address with a description of what my house looks like with a map. They`re hacking into my Facebook, stealing pictures of me and my daughter. I`m worried that, you know, this is all going to start over again. And I`m just now feeling better about my safety, and you know, just my mental health.

I never expected this, you know? I don`t know. I mean -- you could never tell. She was such a good person. And knowing that I shared so many good memories with her. We`ve all lost somebody in this horrible situation.


PINSKY: I want to say thank you to Jane Velez-Mitchell for allowing us to air that interview and congratulations for an excellent, excellent interview.

Up next, Jodi`s jury got to go home at night. The Zimmerman jury will not be so lucky. And again, a reminder, the Monday program, we have a primetime exclusive, the foreman of the Jodi Arias jury will be my guest. He, as he has said, was one of the four jurors who voted against the death penalty.



PINSKY: Todd, you told our producers that you worried about your son. Why is that?

TODD BRIDGES, COMMENTATOR: Well, my son`s a Black male and he walks around and it`s very frightening, because they always assume -- like when we -- when something -- one black person does something, they lump us all in together, that we`ve all done it.

And I`ve noticed it when I walk in stores before, people follow me around the stores thinking I`m going to steal or I`m going to do something. And to me, it`s atrocious in this country and I think that we all should be treated equally.

PINSKY: All right.

BRIDGES: I just want to be treated like everybody else. And I really believe that no matter who was in those clothes, no matter who was walking looking like that, because I`ve got just as many White friends who get pulled over who dressed like Black guys or dress like gang members and get pulled over as anybody.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. It`s day four of George Zimmerman`s second-degree murder trial. Lawyers have been interviewing hundreds of potential jurors. None have been seated so far, Jenny. Back with us is Mark Eiglarsh and Danine Manette, and joining the panel Crystal Wright of, Michaek Skolnik, editor-in-chief of He`s on the board of the Trayvon Martin Foundation.

Danine, I know you had a hugecrush on Todd Bridges. I didn`t share that with him last night, but I understand --


PINSKY: It was a few years ago, mind you. But I understand you wanted to react to what he said last night?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Yes. In seventh grade, my locker was covered with Todd Bridges pictures.


PINSKY: There you go.

MANETTE: So, with that being said --

EIGLARSH: Mine, too.


PINSKY: Todd, man, that entire statement about I have friends who dress black, what does it mean to dress Black? I don`t understand what he meant by that. I mean, he`s sitting up here talking about gross generalizations and racial profiling, but I`m assuming that he means that he has friends that dress like thugs so he`s interchanging the words Black and thugs, which is a problem to me for two reasons.

Number one, Trayvon was not dressed like a thug. He was dressed like a young man who was covering his head to stay out of the rain that night. And number two, to use a negative connotation of equating Black and thug together, it makes what he`s saying no different than what he`s complaining about. He`s complaining about these gross generalizations and he just made one.

PINSKY: Got it. Crystal, your reaction?

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Bingo, bingo, bingo. I mean, that`s what it is. I think it`s really funny whenever we talk about Black people, all Black people dress alike. We all pray alike. We all eat alike. And apparently, you know, we all live in the same neighborhood. I never got the Black memo.


WRIGHT: You know, I agree with a lot of what was Todd is saying. We can`t minimize that Black males in this country are profiled and stigmatized. But at the same time, as you just mentioned, you know, Todd is saying that he doesn`t want to be put so much in a Black box, so to speak.

So, he doesn`t want to be lumped together with all the bad Blacks in many ways. So, I just think we need to end the stereotypes. I mean, come on. Black people --

PINSKY: That would be wonderful. That is a great goal. Michael, I`m going to have you comment on the other side after we get back from the break. So, just (ph) after the break. More of this conversation after this.


PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host, Jenny Hutt, still with me as well as my panel. Michael, here you go, weigh in.

MICHAEL SKOLNIK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF GLOBALGRIND.COM: Yes. I got a problem with what Crystal just said, because on one hand, you say all Black men look alike, that`s a problem. But then, you defend George Zimmerman.

That`s exactly what George Zimmerman did. Black teenagers were allegedly robbing some houses in the neighborhood, and then, George sees Trayvon, thinks he`s one of those kids, and profiles him because he`s Black and chases him and then executes him and puts a bullet in his chest after stalking him.

PINSKY: Crystal, you want to respond?

SKOLNIK: Isn`t that exactly what Zimmerman did?

WRIGHT: Michael, Michael, you know, wait a minute, Michael. I`m really sick of you and your stereotypes and your blanket statements about what you think. That`s the very problem why George Zimmerman is not going to get a fair trial because you`ve already convicted him in a court of public opinion. And don`t tell me about --

SKOLNIK: You just said that all Black males don`t look alike.

WRIGHT: Right. Blacks should be individuals. Thank you very much. And this case --

SKOLNIK: And Trayvon Martin should be an individual.

WRIGHT: But not race --

SKOLNIK: Trayvon Martin had nothing to do, had nothing to do with the kids who were robbing houses, nothing.

WRIGHT: This reminds me of O.J. Simpson all over again. Remember when O.J. was accused of murdering Nicole and Nicole Simpson`s boyfriend? Everybody said, no matter what, Black Americans, the majority of Black Americans were like, O.J. has to get off. He has to get off because he`s going to --

SKOLNIK: I`m not black, Crystal, I`m White, and I think George Zimmerman is guilty.

PINSKY: Hold on, guys. We got to play fair. Mark, I want to go to you. Can he get a fair trial?

EIGLARSH: Well, the answer is yes. If fair trial is simply defined by finding six people who can focus exclusively on the evidence and the law that`s given to the judge and make a decision based on that. And they did it in the Arias case. I think they can do it here.

PINSKY: I`ve got a twitter. It comes from one Crystal Wright. Let`s put it up there. Come on. Get up on the screen. "No. Zimmerman won`t have a fair trial." That`s Crystal.

WRIGHT: Yes, I really -- I don`t think he will. i think it`s going to be really hard because you have the president of the United States come out and say -- interject himself, if I had a son, President Obama said he would look like Trayvon. That, to me, is saying that he`s biased toward Zimmerman being a killer.

MANETTE: Jurors are a lot smarter than you give them credit for being, though.

PINSKY: I hope so. I hope so, Danine.

MANETTE: They`re a lot smarter.


MANETTE: They don`t do what we say.

PINSKY: Arias trial, I think, taught me that. But let`s -- guys, you all come back next week. We will continue with this conversation and dialogue. Hang in there. "Last Call" is next.


HUTT: Drew, drew, this has been a crazy show. I mean, this is great.

PINSKY: It`s been interesting. And Jenny, you`ve done a great job this week. I appreciate you being here. Reminder, the daytime Emmy Awards are on this Sunday live on HLN at 8:00 eastern time. We`ll all be there. And again, well done, Jenny, this week. Thanks to all for watching. Thanks to all my guests this week. And, "HLN After Dark" will begin immediately following us, in fact, right now.