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Police Battle Protesters in Istanbul; Tech Giants Reveal User Data Requests; Colorado Wildfire 45 Percent Contained; Unrest in Turkey; Metadata in Focus; Stiletto Heels as a Murder Weapon

Aired June 15, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up this hour on CNN:

Violent protests in Istanbul as demonstrators clash with riot police. We're going to take you there live.

Facebook and Microsoft say the U.S. government asked them to turn over users' private information, as many as 17,000 times in just six months.

Michael Jackson's ghost shows up at the trial over his death. And a judge allows the testimony. You can't make this stuff up.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Don Lemon. Welcome everyone. It is 2:00 a.m. in Istanbul.

And Turkey's biggest city is seething with rage right now. Just hours ago, Turkish security forces stormed Gezi Park forcing out protesters opposed to the prime minister. Now, in the streets around the park, the protesters are setting fires while the sound of chaos echoes all across the city.

CNN's Karl Penhaul, he is there in the thick of things.

So, Karl, what are you seeing right now?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we're down on one corner of the square and down this street about 200 yards down there, there are still large groups of protesters in the side streets that lead to the square and they continue to fight running battles with riot police.

That white vehicle that you can see now just reversing up the street is one of the police water canons. They saw action earlier on night falling Gezi Park. There were thousands of demonstrators gathered both in the square and in the park throughout the course of the afternoon, hundreds of riot police had also began gathering.

And then just as night fell, that was when the Prime Minister Erdogan and the security forces made good on their promise to clear the park. They sent in lines of riot police up the middle of the park and down the sides of the park, and at that point they were whipping up tents and driving the protesters both with water cannon and with tear gas out of the park. There was some resistance from the demonstrators. Some of them used rocks and bottles to fight the police but it wasn't a long fight. The demonstrators really didn't have much choice because of the organization of the police force to pull back.

But as I say right now in the early hours now of the morning what we're seeing down this street and down many of the other side streets, are groups of protesters beginning to reassemble and go head to head once again with the riot police. We also hear from my colleague, Arwa Damon, in another point of the city that maybe hundreds or possibly even thousands of other protesters are coming from other parts of the city to back these groups and to take the fight once again to the riot as they say.

This is one of the water canons we've been seeing action throughout the course of the night. They periodically will withdraw from the areas where the protesters are to go fill back up with water.

They are also armed with bulldozers on the front and that has been very effective against the protesters' barricades. They simply lower the bulldozer and plow through the barricades. And that is what has been allowing them to clear the lines so riot police can then go in on foot and get into close quarters with the protesters and drive them out now of the Gezi Park and of Taksim Square.

Those areas are now clear of protesters, but as I say, the fight goes on in some of the side streets, Don.

LEMON: Karl Penhaul, Istanbul, Turkey, keeping an eye on the situation there, we will get back to Karl as the situation warrants.

Meantime, Iran has declared the winner of its presidential election. It is moderate cleric Hassan Rouhani. He won more than 50 percent of the vote.

Here is brand new video of Rouhani and his supporters celebrating today in Tehran. His campaign began to gather steam last month when he dared to accuse the state media of censorship and lies and criticized the government's tight grip on security. He will take office come August.

Terrorists unleashed a devastating attack in Pakistan today. A bomb tore through a bus killing at least 11 women, 20 more people were injured in that attack. But it was just the first for that city. Next, militants stormed the hospital where the wounded were being treated. Before the siege was finally ended, three security force members and the deputy commissioner were killed along with three nurses caught in the crossfire. Four gunmen were also killed.

We have big developments in the controversy over your private data and secret government surveillance. Fans of Edward Snowden are showing their support on the streets of Hong Kong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD (chanting): We support Edward Snowden!

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: The 29-year-old who leaked NSA documents revealing the top- secret program is believed to still be hiding in Hong Kong.

Plus this, the NSA may soon declassify key documents on terror plots prevented by the secret government surveillance program.

Plus, Facebook and Microsoft opening up about how often the government asked them to turn over users' data.

We have brand new details on how the U.S. intelligence community is defending the secret surveillance program. A congressional source gave CNN a copy of a document the U.S. intelligence community sent to Congress today.

Here's a quote on tracking phone records. "The metadata acquired and stored under this program may be queried only when there is a reasonable suspicion based on specific facts that an identifier is associated with specific foreign terrorist organizations. In 2012 less than 300 unique identifiers met this standard and were queried."

The U.S. intelligence community says the program has helped disrupt dozens of potential terrorist plots.

Rene Marsh has the latest from Washington now -- Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, feeling the pressure the National Security Agency is trying to prove to Americans this method of tracking phone calls and collecting internet data has helped prevent terror plots. Now, this intelligence document CNN just obtained says the surveillance program helped disrupt dozens of potential terrorist plots in the U.S. and in more than 20 countries around the world. The document also details the intelligence community's assertion that one of the thwarted attacks was the 2009 plot to blow up the New York City subway system.

Now, because of NSA's phone tracking it says U.S. intelligence discovered a Pakistan terrorist was in contact with someone in the U.S. conspiring to carry out the attack. The NSA tipped off the FBI and Najibullah Zazi, as well as his conspirators were arrested and the plot thwarted. The head of the very secret NSA is promising to declassify more information about specific terror plots thwarted.

Senator Dianne Feinstein says the information could be released as soon as Monday -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Rene, thank you very much, Rene.

Let's talk more about this first of its kind disclosure.

CNN's Laurie Segall is looking into the depths of these requests and how Silicon Valley is responding -- Laurie.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don. Well, when it comes to this kind of data we learned a little bit about what Facebook is looking for. They said the data has helped local sheriffs find missing children, helped national security officials investigate terrorist threats. We could likely find out more of that information.

Microsoft knew a little bit less but we do know this has affected 30,000 users. We don't know exactly what those requests are. I think we should take a second to look and see what kind of requests are they publishing. So, a single request could be very sweeping. Are we looking at a couple e-mails or are we looking at three months of cell phone data?

So, obviously, a lot of folks talking about this kind of thing and a lot of tech companies coming forward with this data. I think, you know, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, this won't be the last of it. I can only assume.

But, Don, I also want to say Silicon Valley is really divided on this right now. I've been speaking with people all week. I've spoken to the founder of Reddit and different investors, and the view on this data collection is a little bit different. Listen to what they told me.

BRUCE K. TARAGIN, VENTURE CAPITALIST, BLUMBERG CAPITAL: I would say our perspective over all as the earliest stage venture investor in technology is, fundamentally privacy is dead. Today, there are nine companies participating. I suspect there will be a thousand companies that are in a position to participate ten years from now.

ALEXIS OHANIAN, FOUNDER, REDDIT: It will come up a lot sooner for founders and founders maybe who were thinking move fast and break things are now going to be thinking, well, move fast and break things, but don't break the Constitution. And I think this is an opportunity for us as citizens to really start to draw a line in the sand for what is off limits. What is still private even in this digital age.

SEGALL: Obviously transparency at the heart of this debate. You can expect the story keeps changing, keeps unfolding very quickly. We'll keep you in the loop -- Don.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Laurie, thank you very much.

Next, returning to ruins. Almost 500 Coloradoans run out by wildfires are allowed to see where their homes once stood.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It was a harrowing trip for a tourist taking one of those yellow duck boat rides in Liverpool, England. The amphibious vehicle sank at Liverpool's Albert Dock. More than 30 people were onboard. Several were taken to the hospital, but everyone has been discharged. This is the second time in three months one of these duck boats has sunk. In Louisiana with the investigation of one chemical plant explosion not even wrapped up, a second blast at a second Louisiana plant kills one person and injures eight. This happened last evening. It was in south Louisiana in Donaldsonville.

The plant manager says the explosion happened as nitrogen was being off loaded from a tanker truck. Thursday's explosion just 10 miles away in Geismar, Louisiana, killed two and injured more than 100.

Still no word on what caused that explosion. The sheriff says the general public was never in any real danger from chemical leaks. Thousands of Colorado residents are watching and waiting hoping good weather conditions will continue to give firefighters the upper hand. Fire crews are working to put out hot spots amid the 473 destroyed homes.

George Howell joins us live from Colorado.

Four hundred seventy-three destroyed homes. My oh, my. What's the latest on this mammoth fire now?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, definitely a fire that has caused a lot of damage here in the Colorado Springs area.

But there is some good news. At this point, the latest word from officials, 45 percent contained. Great news when you consider what we heard the other day that it was 30 percent contained. It is a sign that firefighters are gaining ground and they're getting the help of Mother Nature.

Just the other day there was a lot of rainfall in this area. We were drenched out here. That rainfall fell over this area near Black Forest. It was great news for the firefighters and they say it helped to get them where they are now, at 45 percent containment.

Will we get that rain this evening? Not looking so good. We're getting a few drops here and there. I've got the rain jacket on to be ready for it. But it seems like the heaviest rain has moved just to the north of the area that needs the rain the most, this area where the fire has destroyed homes and continues to cause damage.

But it is good news, don. We are seeing signs of progress, 45 percent containment and firefighters say now they want the fire to flare up. They want to see where those hot spots are because they are ready to deal with it.

LEMON: George Howell, thank you very much. We appreciate your reporting.

Michael Jackson's ghost shows up at a trial over his death and the judge allows the testimony. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There is still no jury seated in the murder trial of George Zimmerman. Attorneys on both sides of the case questioned potential jurors yesterday about how much they knew about the case, where they get their day-to-day news, and whether they think George Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty based on what they have heard in the press.

Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the shooting death of teenager Trayvon Martin last year. Jury selection continues on Monday. For seven weeks now, lawyers in Los Angeles have been battling over who is responsible for the death of Michael Jackson. When it comes to the superstar, we have seen and heard just about everything.

But this week, just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder, Jackson's ghost showed up in court. I kid you not.

Jackson's testimony was relayed to the court via AEG Live's Randy Phillips who heard it from Lionel Ritchie's ex-wife Brenda. AEG Live's former CEO Randy Phillips heard it from Lionel Ritchie's ex- wife, Brenda, who heard it from a medium of course. Are you following me here?

Well, maybe attorney Brian Kabateck is following me, because he joins me now from Los Angeles to help me explain all this. How on earth, Brian, did the judge even allow this to happen?

BRIAN KABATECK, ATTORNEY: Well, they opened the door when they started having e-mails going back and forth that one of them said exonerated AEG. And somebody said, well where did that come from? And finally the guy came out and testified and this is no guy. This is the CEO of the company.

He said, well that was from a medium who talked to Lionel Ritchie's ex-wife. The medium talked to Michael's ghost and exonerated us and said we did nothing wrong. In fact, Michael said he did it to himself and he is sorry. I can't believe that kind of evidence came in.

LEMON: Yes. He said that the medium according to Lionel Ritchie's ex-wife through the medium that Michael Jackson's ghost said Conrad Murray was not responsible for his death. That, in fact, Michael Jackson himself was responsible because he did it.

OK. There are plenty of e-mails between AEG executives that came up in court this week. I want you to listen to one and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this e-mail from Mr. Leiweke to you, it says, "Trouble with M.J., big trouble. What are you guys up to tonight?" Do you see that?

DAN BECKERMAN, CEO, AEG: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

And do you know why it is or what was your understanding of why Mr. Leiweke was informing you about trouble with M.J.? Let me ask you this way. Do you have an understanding of what Mr. Leiweke was talking about?

BECKERMAN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you respond to Mr. Leiweke?

BECKERMAN: Sure looks like it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did you tell Mr. Leiweke?

BECKERMAN: Do you want me to read what it says?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.

BECKERMAN: It says: "I figured something might be wrong given how jittery Randy has been this week. Is it pre-show nerves bad or get a straitjacket collar insurance carrier bad? We're around tonight just hanging out."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So that was during depositions right in November of 2012?

KABATECK: That's right.

LEMON: So then was he talking about Randy Phillips or Michael Jackson?

KABATECK: Oh, he is obviously talking about Michael Jackson because Randy Phillips isn't going to have jitters. He is not going to be performing on stage. It's clearly they're talking about Michael. Listen, Don, the wheels have come off.

LEMON: I was just going to say, what does this do to AEG? Because, at first many people would say, listen, this case is really going to be thrown out. The Jackson family has nothing. AEG, there isn't even a contract. What does it do to the case now?

KABATECK: I think this case has gone from what I originally thought was a tough case and I know the lawyers to this case now is turning into a damages case. It is going to simply be about how much money they're going to give the Jackson family.

LEMON: Wow.

KABATECK: There is nothing left here to talk about in this case. They controlled them. They operated. They're crazy. If anyone is in trouble it's AEG.

LEMON: Wow. How did it go -- how did it go from AEG having the upper hand saying, hey, listen, it was Michael Jackson who wanted to hire Conrad Murray. Michael Jackson was in control of this. We were just fronting the money for Conrad Murray. There wasn't even a signed contract.

How did it go from that to this? KABATECK: Because of the e-mails and because of the evidence. There are so many e-mails and it shows what happens when these e-mails demonstrate what actually happened.

LEMON: See, you never know, you never know at the beginning of a trial what's going to show up, how it's going to turn out.

In court yesterday, jurors watched a comparison of two of Michael Jackson's performances one from 2001 and the other from 2009 right before his death. I want you to watch and then we'll talk about it.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

LEMON: OK. So how is this going to impact the trial?

KABATECK: Well, what this is showing is just a few days before Michael died that Michael wasn't able to do his spins. He wasn't able to do the workout there.

And it goes in with all the evidence that's come in at this point in the trial, which shows that Michael was slowly but very clearly falling apart. And they had a duty or at least that is what I suspect the plaintiff will contend to, at some point, pull the plug on the show to get him help. In fact, did you know, Don, that one of the co- presidents of the company was Elvis' agent and saw what happened to Elvis?

LEMON: Can we roll that video again? You don't have to play the sound. He is what, almost 10 years older in the video, or eight, 2001 to 2009. I mean, how is that really going to make a big difference? Plus, this is a rehearsal, right? You're not going full force at a rehearsal, Brian.

KABATECK: No, but you have to take it into the context of the time and with all the other evidence that came in and the problems that Michael was having and the potential occasions he was showing up either having been drinking or as some of the people said here in big trouble. You take all of this together. There were warning signs everywhere, Don.

LEMON: Can I just call you Kabateck? I like that. I like one name.

KABATECK: You call me Kabateck all day long.

LEMON: You'll be like Madonna or someone who is really famous or Prince. Just Kabateck.

KABATECK: Just like them without the talent.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Thank you, Kabateck. We'll talk to you soon. Appreciate it.

KABATECK: Thank you.

LEMON: Violent clashes in Istanbul. (VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

LEMON: Riot police tossing tear gas in crowds and spraying protesters with water cannon. We're going to go live right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. We want to get you back to our top story right now. We showed you the protesters. The protests choking the streets around Gezi Park, Istanbul, Turkey. We saw it earlier and also Taksim Square, there have been some protests there, with people banging on garbage cans and also setting fires. We saw our Karl Penhaul out there a short time ago showing water cannon going back and forth between the scenes and then police also trying to move the protesters out of the park.

Arwa Damon is in Istanbul there.

And, Arwa, what is it like where you are right now?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if my eyes look a bit bloodshot it is because they just fired quite a few rounds of tear gas here. We are on the Asian side of Istanbul. There were a few thousand people gathered --

LEMON: That is CNN's Arwa Damon reporting from Istanbul, Turkey. She is reporting on the protests.

You heard her there a short time ago saying if her eyes looked a little bloodshot it is because they were spraying tear gas. And she got caught up in that tear gas saying she is reporting on the Asian side of the border but again Arwa Damon is there and our Karl Penhaul both there. We're going to continue with this for a little bit and try to get her back up for you.

But the police used water cannon and tear gas to try to clear the protesters that were camped out in this park which has really become ground zero for antigovernment demonstrations, targeting the police and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan. They took over the Taksim Square and the adjacent Gezi Park today and there you see some of the water cannon and police pushing those protesters back.

And our producers are there on the scene as well.

Arwa Damon joins us now.

Arwa, you were explaining to us where you were and there was some tear gas involved in your reporting.

DAMON (voice-over): Yes. We are on the Asian side of Istanbul and a few thousand people had gathered here. The image earlier was really quite incredible.

They had gathered here trying to walk across the bridge to the European side which is Taksim and Gezi Park are located. The police used tear gas to disperse the crowd and then again chased them down trying to push them as far back from the entrance to the area as they possibly could. Tear gassing was pretty intense.

We're now also hearing people banging pots and pans. They do this in solidarity and we're also hearing people are trying to regroup once again and try once again to actually cross that bridge. Istanbul has not been through something like this in recent history. We not only have the clashes happening, the tear gas happening in Taksim, in Gezi. This has spread to other parts of the city now as well.

LEMON: So, Arwa, we are concerned because for the most part today this has just been people who are making a lot of noise and causing some trouble, but no injuries and obviously no deaths. But you mentioned tear gas. We saw you earlier wearing a gas mask. That is of concern. What do you know about injuries and the use of these sort of weapons?

DAMON: We don't yet have accurate statistics on injuries from today but up until this point there were four people who have been killed so far. A thousand more have been wounded. Those who are wounded not just because of the gas but there are other injuries as well. We're hearing people are sustaining various scrapes. Some of the injuries more serious than others. The protesters actually set up something of a makeshift clinic inside the (INAUDIBLE) park itself and they had another clinic outside one of the five star hotels right next to (INAUDIBLE) park.

That is how they were trying to deal with the bulk of those who were injured. But we don't have a clear idea of exactly what those statistics are for. All of this taking place by surprise though because even though the prime minister threatened that he would be going in they were expecting it maybe to happen on Sunday, maybe early Monday morning but most certainly not tonight.

LEMON: All right. Arwa, keep a close eye on this for us and stay safe. We're hearing now from the Turkish government. 29 people injured. Our Arwa Damon reporting from Istanbul, Turkey. We'll get back to her if the situation warrants it there.

Let's move on now and talk about Facebook and Microsoft. They say the U.S. government asked them to turn over users' private information as many as 17,000 times in just six months. The fallout next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The U.S. intelligence community sent a document to Congress today getting specific about how often phone records are tracked. It says, "the metadata acquired and stored under this program may be queried only when there is a reasonable suspicion based upon specific and articulated facts that an identifier is associated with specific foreign terrorist organizations. In 2012 less than 300 unique identifiers met this standard and were queried."

Let's bring in CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes in Washington. Tom, that would have been great if it was in layman's terms or in English. We know what it meant. It just meant you have to have specific guidelines in order to get this information.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

LEMON: Tom, is the intelligence community trying to do damage control here?

FUENTES: Well, I think they are just trying to clarify to help people better understand what the real issue is. The data mining that we're talking about is like taking a hundred million records a day from the phone company and putting them in a warehouse. And then if some issue comes up, go to the particular file, to pull it off the shelf, and take a look at someone, some particular number to do an investigation.

So, you know, no one is in a position to be monitoring the volume that we're talking about. If you add the other phone companies under the assumption they're probably also providing similar data you could be looking at close to a billion records a day being transmitted to NSA, stored by NSA for a future look. There are not enough analysts in the world much less the U.S. government to analyze a billion records a day. That are getting put into storage. But when an issue comes up to be able to go back to it that is what the government is asking for.

LEMON: All right. In 2012 it says less than 300 unique identifiers met the standard and were queried. I mean, it doesn't seem to be getting a lot of information, garnering a lot of useful information. No?

FUENTES: Well, what if that was 300 cases where people would have died? I mean we have no tolerance for anybody dying from a terrorist act. You know, when the FBI said we've done all we can with camera land, the Boston bomber in 2011, we're not happy with that. They dropped the ball. Why didn't they keep following him? Why didn't they keep monitoring him? Because they were following the guidelines.

So that is the issue in these cases is how much access do you want the government to have and for how long? You know, part of the issue is these phone companies and internet service providers have all this data in the first place. Nobody is questioning that they know all that.

LEMON: It sounds like you are saying to me it is a lose-lose proposition for the government and maybe the administration. Maybe I'm wrong. If they have a program like this, it's over reaching. But if they don't and somebody dies, then it is their fault. Is that what you're saying?

FUENTES: Absolutely. That is true. It's just a fact of life and they know it. I know it when I was in the FBI that's what you're dealing with. Why didn't you know what the bad guy was thinking? Why didn't you know when he turned from just thinking bad thoughts to actually going and killing somebody? Do we want an FBI in this country to have the ability to know that? What would it take to be in a position to know that?

LEMON: Then why do people see this guy as a hero, Tom? There are many people who say I think what this guy did is heroic.

FUENTES: Because they don't understand the ramifications. Because what they do understand and legitimately they do understand and have a point that there is so much data being collected by the government. There is no question about that. They have a reasonable position let's say to be supportive of someone who tries to bring that to a stop. What they don't understand is are they also willing to accept that we don't care if the government no longer has the act to go track whether an individual has made phone calls to other terrorists, whether they are a bigger network.

LEMON: All right, Tom. Stand by. I want to figure out what makes someone like him tick. I want to bring in human behavior expert Wendy Walsh now. Wendy, Bradley Manning, in the Wikileaks case, also young, both millennials. Do you think this is sort of generational? Whether he is a hero or a traitor, depending who you talk to, he is either.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. It is very interesting because it seems to be divided based on age. I've been paying close attention to the comments on Facebook and Twitter. On Facebook of course which tends to have a slightly older demographic at least in my world they all think he is a traitor. But on Twitter they think he is a hero which tends to have a much younger demographic. I think that when we talk about these millenniums we have to remember this emerging psyche of people who think globally before they think locally.

And this is a threat to governments that he could quickly ensconce himself in Hong Kong and have new friends there because of so many millennials have been connected to each other on the internet for so many years and they've been saving the planet, remember, the whole planet since kindergarten.

LEMON: That's what they think. That is what they think at least but he seems to have this sort of holier than thou moral compass about him, right, that says OK. It's OK for me to break my oath that I wouldn't give away these NSA secrets, these intelligence secrets. So what does that say about his character if he says it is OK to do that but I did take an oath?

WALSH: Well, you know, there is a lot of bantering the word narcissism around, Don. We hear it all the time. And I want to make a distinction between a true narcissistic personality disorder and a high level of narcissistic behavior. You have to be narcissistic in order to run for office. You certainly as Greenspan once said in his book if you have what it takes to be president you don't deserve to be president. Because of these narcissistic behaviors.

So we look at this young man and sure he had to think individually and he had to make these choices. Some people are saying that our loose social bonds made him kind of do this. You know you could also argue that he's a millennium guy who is actually brave, who has been able to take this risk knowing full well the consequences. Let's think back. How long has it been since we had big youth protests, the '60s? Maybe there was a little in Occupy movement and they went away and went right back on their i-Phones when the economy picked up again.

So here is a young man who is, you know, doing an act of civil disobedience and is fully expecting to take the consequences no different than Dr. Martin Luther King did. LEMON: So what is the difference you think in the world, I'll ask Tom and then I'll go to Wendy, in the world that he lived in and grew up in as she mentioned Dr. Martin Luther King. What is the difference now for someone who is a millennial to think that it is OK to give away these government secrets and for this intelligence? Is it something that he doesn't know about the world or something that he does know about the world because of the information age that we live in, Tom?

FUENTES: Well, my opinion what I've heard him say publicly makes me think that he is politically about as ignorant as anybody I've ever heard and as naive.

LEMON: You think he is naive.

FUENTES: Extremely naive. So to think that he should save the world himself by giving up confidential information or breaking the law, you know, we have 800,000 plus people in this country with top-secret clearance with access to the most sensitive classified material. We have people in the military that could push the nuclear button if they chose to. Do we want them just thinking for themselves and assuming that their leaders don't know what they're doing and that they should take the law in their own hands, take action into their own hands, government policy into their own hands? I don't think we want a future with that situation.

I think that's why we want people to adhere to the promises that they made. If he wanted to bring this policy to an end for the good of the order there are many ways he could have done it besides how he has gone about it.

LEMON: Yes.

WALSH: And, Don, I think he is really, Tom is really correct in talking about the sense of entitlement that many of these youth have. If you think about it -

LEMON: Oh go.

WALSH: They have been celebrated with ponies and birthday parties and doting parents and hover parents since every time they did their first step. They were celebrated and glorified.

LEMON: Yes. And medals for coming in fifth. Everyone gets a medal. Every one gets a trophy and you know, every one who gets yelled out the school is being bullied. There are legitimate cases of bullying but not all are because when I was a kid -

WALSH: Right.

LEMON: If someone yelled at you or started a fight my mom would say "Did you hit him back?" And you say "No." She'd say go back down the street.

WALSH: It was called social learning back then.

LEMON: Right. All right, guys. We can have this conversation all day long. We appreciate you. We'll have you back. Thank you.

Coming up police say this woman used her stiletto heel to kill her boyfriend. The latest on her case right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The murder trial of one of the most infamous reputed mob bosses in U.S. history is finally under way. Prosecutors say James Whitey Bulger killed 19 people while heading up Boston's Irish mob. On the run for 16 years, he was nabbed in 2011. His own lawyer admits that now 83-year-old was into drug trafficking, extortion, and loan sharking. The trial could take three months and will detail FBI corruption, connected to Bulger's case. OK.

A stiletto heel used as a deadly weapon. This woman Anna Trujillo is accused of beating her boyfriend to death with her high heel. Yes, a shoe. She has been charged with murder but she claims it was all self- defense. Earlier I spoke with HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell about the details of her case and if her argument will hold up in court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: It is a deadly weapon, Don. In fact, the stiletto shoe was named after the stiletto knife which is a long, thin dagger type knife. So what happens is if you take a stiletto it is very pointy so all the pressure you exert on it goes into one little point so that makes whatever that point hits crumble.

And this woman according to the authorities stabbed him 10 times in the head, puncture wounds up to an inch and a half deep. Imagine that going into your skull.

LEMON: Well, you have a better explanation than what you're doing right now. With a watermelon let's take a look at Jane explaining how this happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have a melon here because this is the closest thing we could find to demonstrate something that would be like a skull. Now, look at that. That is a - when I first did this I thought oh, it's not going to go through but then when I did it with maybe feigning a little rage, OK. This is an extraordinarily violent crime.

LEMON: So same idea. A watermelon may be a little softer but you get the idea from doing that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me tell you, it took a lot of force to puncture that melon. This was a rage killing according to authorities and it was over kill. Ten puncture wounds to the head and up to 20 more on the face and the neck and the arms. So this was according to cops over kill. She claimed self-defense.

LEMON: How is she going to say self-defense? That seems like over exertion or too much force.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I spoke to an expert in this area. Believe it or not there are experts in stiletto shoes as a weapon something called a stiletto spy school that a woman who teaches women how to defend themselves using stilettos to literally rip their shoes off if a guy is coming at her and use it as a weapon.

And she says women are often so afraid of being overpowered by a man that when they do fight back they have a tendency to go for over kill because they want to make absolutely sure the man is dead so they can't come back at them.

LEMON: Let me ask you. Because what happens before is that going to play into it? Because apparently they were out drinking you said.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Tequila is a factor in this case. They were out at a night club drinking tequila and some guy tries to buy her a drink and she claims, remember, the man is not here, the professor is not here to tell his side of the story. She claims he got jealous. They continue home. Their argument continues. She claims he comes at her and that she has to fight back. However, her building manager where she lives says that she often would say if anybody ever messes with me I'm going to get them with my stiletto. So that is a problem for the defense.

LEMON: Yes. That may seem like premeditation of some sort.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or she has a pattern, she's over willing to use that shoe.

LEMON: And as we speak now, still no cause of death but most likely it's going to be from that stiletto shoe in the skull.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, an inch and a half deep. You're not walking away from that.

LEMON: Thank you, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Don. So good to see you.

LEMON: You as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Jane Velez-Mitchell, every night on HLN 7:00 p.m., guaranteed you will be interested and entertained somewhat on some of the stories there and informed, of course. Jane Velez-Mitchell.

The surviving Beatles entertaining fans on both U.S. coasts. Ringo shows off 50 years of his Beatles memorabilia, while Sir Paul rocks 80,000 at a huge music festival. We have both of them, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

LEMON: Paul McCartney, still amazing. The former Beatle performing Friday night at the (INAUDIBLE) Music Festival in Manchester, Tennessee. He played nearly three hours with three encores. Final song of the night, appropriately "The End" from "Abbey Road," the last album recorded by the bad boy.

And all the way on the other side of the country, another Beatle, Ringo Star, helped open his new exhibit in Los Angeles. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RINGO STARR, BEATLES: And you press the base drum pedal.

TORY DUNNAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT(on camera): Right here?

STARR: Yes. Look how easy.

DUNNAN: A drum lesson from Ringo Star?

STARR: You only just started.

DUNNAN (voice-over): It happened when the rock 'n' roll hall of famer took us on a tour of his new exhibit at the Grammy Museum in Los Angeles.

(on camera): From the outside everyone's looking on at the Beatles. They can't imagine what it's like to have been one.

STARR: No, they can't. And I couldn't really ever explain it to you.

DUNNAN (voice-over): But now fans can put the pieces together themselves by looking at the man behind the music, his drums, his wardrobe and even his personal belongings.

(on camera): I love this here, this postcard that you wrote to your mom, at the bottom.

STARR: I know. Call me Ringo Starr. Because it wasn't getting through when I'm Richard Starkey to your mother, I'm Richard.

DUNNAN: You got your name by the rings you're wearing.

STARR: I did. In Liverpool everyone sort of got a nickname.

DUNNAN: Would you ever change the name that you chose?

STARR: No.

DUNNAN: Never.

STARR: No. I'm Ringo. Hello, Ringo.

DUNNAN (voice-over): This drum kit is from the Beatles' first American appearance in '64 on the "Ed Sullivan Show."

(on camera): What do you think of when you see that?

STARR: Well, I think of an incredible moment of coming to America. Even on the plane you could feel New York buzzing.

DUNNAN: Would you ever wear any of these still? STARR: Yes, I wear them around the house. Barbara and I have Beatle night. No.

DUNNAN: Starr even drummed up and developed a book of negatives. These are all photos he's taken during the Beatles heyday.

STARR: We're in a big fancy hotel in Paris. And George is washing his hands. We just took our shirts and did it like that.

DUNNAN: And for those who are inspired to become drummers -

(on camera): You're going to see my lack of musical talent.

STARR: You and many others.

DUNNAN (voice-over): Then arguably the most influential drummer in all of rock 'n' roll crushed me like a bug.

STARR: You should play guitar.

DUNNAN (on camera): Oh, man!

(voice-over): Not everyone can be Ringo Star.

DUNNAN: Tory Dunnan, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Very nice.

A major league pitcher is in the hospital right now. He took a line drive to the head. It's frightening to watch. Coming up.

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LEMON: Fair warning, it's a scary piece of video. But it shows you the dangers of baseball. A major league pitcher was hurt pretty badly by a shot to the head this afternoon. This is Ale Cobb (ph), he's a starter for Tampa Bay and takes a hardline drive to the side of his head. You see it right there. He was carried off the field by stretcher straight to the hospital. According to his official twitter feed, he never lost consciousness. The team just announced that Alex Cobb has a concussion.

I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for watching. "AC 360 Special" right now from "Chris to Kristin."