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President Obama Visiting Ireland; New Implications of NSA Leaks; New Hoffa Tip; Still No Jury for Zimmerman Trial; Colorado Fire Abates

Aired June 17, 2013 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And at age 16, she was the youngest person ever on death row in the U.S. Today, 27 years later, freedom for Paula Cooper. You do not want to miss this amazing story.

We're going to start, though, with President Obama. He's in Northern Ireland right now for the G-8 summit. The president is there to talk with other world leaders about the important issues of the day, including security, the civil war in Syria and, of course, trade.

But back home here, there are some dark clouds brewing. Our Jessica Yellin, following the president in Ireland. And, Jessica, there is some trouble for the president in the numbers.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There is, John. Not a lot of good news for the president. In our new poll, only 45 percent of the American people tell us they approve of the job he's doing. That's an eight-point drop since May.

A bunch of factors are contributing to that. One of the president's strongest suits has long been people consider him honest and ethical, but the number who find him trustworthy has fallen by eight points since the IRS controversy and the leaks investigations hit. That's now down to 49 percent.

John, it's surprising to see the president's core strength take such a hit in one month.

BERMAN: You mentioned leaks, Jessica, and these are really the first poll numbers we have seen since after the NSA leaks revelation, everything Edward Snowden's had to say.

What are people saying about surveillance, in general?

YELLIN: Well, six-in-10 Americans tell us in the poll they object to the way the president has handled the surveillance issues. The president scores worse on this issue than President Bush did.

But it's worth noting an interesting wrinkle here because a narrow majority of Americans do approve of the NSA's surveillance programs, broadly, but they disapprove of the president's leadership on this issue.

And this probably has to do with another point. They think the government is getting too big and too powerful, John? BERMAN: Interesting. Jessica Yellin in Northern Ireland with a picturesque setting, thanks so much, Jessica. Always great to see you.

YELLIN: Of course.

BERMAN: The president's falling poll numbers, they're playing directly into this next story.

With so many Americans disagreeing with the phone surveillance program, the administration, changing tactics. It's going to declassify information about some terror plots that, according to the NSA, were thwarted because of that snooping.

Here's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A full-court Obama administration press to calm Americans' concerns about secret surveillance programs led by the Republican House intelligence chairman.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: If you can see the -- just the number of cases where we've actually stopped a plot, I think Americans will come to a different conclusion that all the of the misleading rhetoric I've heard over the last few weeks.

BASH: Intelligence agencies are now working to declassify specifics about dozens of terror plots that the National Security Agency director told Congress the secret programs helped disrupt.

Over the weekend, the government unveiled a teaser, this document claiming phone data collection programs have helped prevent terror plots, quote, "here in the homeland and in more than 20 countries around the world."

Supporters of the surveillance programs are trying to beat back suggestions that the government is listening in on calls in the U.S.

ROGERS: It's against the law for the NSA to record and monitor U.S. -- Americans' phone calls.

BASH: Another supporter, Dick Cheney, who rarely agrees with the Obama White House, does on this.

The GOP vice president on the day of 9/11 says these programs could have prevented that attack.

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I guess I'd ask everybody to pause and don't automatically fold the NSA in with the other stuff that's going on in the Obama administration because this is a program run by professionals. It's done great work, saved lives.

BASH: But naysayers like Colorado Democrat Mark Udall are not giving up.

SENATOR MARK UDALL (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I don't think collecting millions and millions of American's phone calls -- now this is the metadata. This is time, place, to whom you direct the calls is making us any safer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: I want to bring in Dana Bash now, live from Capitol Hill.

Before we do that, I should tell you we are monitoring a live interview of Edward Snowden, the man who leaked this secret information to "The Guardian," is giving online to the newspaper.

I promise we will bring you any details about potentially new, blockbuster information that this interview my reveal.

In the meantime, though, Dana, you mentioned that the intelligence committees are receiving briefings, or they did receive a briefing on reports of the so-called thwarted plots that this surveillance may have helped in.

Do you have any details?

BASH: We are expecting that those thwarted plots or information about those thwarted plots should be declassified as soon as today.

At least, that's what senior intelligence officials who were here briefing Congress on Thursday told the members of Congress, sometime this week, maybe as soon as today.

And what they're hoping, obviously, in releasing details, is to try to reassure Americans that their concerns about civil liberties are worth it, and to do that by really explaining in more graphic, explicit, understandable ways by saying, look, this could have happened had we not had these programs in place, these surveillance programs that are grabbing the data about your phone records.

BERMAN: Dana, it seems that every day we're see new reports, new releases in "The Guardian" from these leaked documents and Snowden himself giving this interview to "The Guardian" right now.

How worried are congressional leaders that information about the information that he might be leaking?

BASH: They're really worried. And I think they're probably worried about two different things that -- which may sound like they're at cross-purposes, and here's why.

They're worried about information that he leaks, but also misinformation they insist he is giving, information that he has given. He is the one who made public that these programs exist, and members of Congress, the White House, everybody has admitted, yes, they do exist. They admitted for the first time in pretty graphic terms. But they're also saying that he's saying things that simply aren't true. For example, he said in an interview last week that he, as somebody who is working with the NSA as a contractor, could, if he wanted to, find the president's personal e-mail, anybody's personal information.

They say here that that is simply not true, and that's information that they have gotten as part as their oversight responsibilities in Congress from the intelligence communities.

So there's a concern about correct information and what they say is even dangerous, incorrect information they say he's putting out there.

BERMAN: True or not, he seems to have an unending desire just to keep on talking. Dana Bash for us on Capitol Hill, great to see you, Dana.

Moving on now, one of the great American mysteries, and it is an enduring mystery. Where is Jimmy Hoffa?

The FBI is acting on a new tip today from a former Detroit mafia under-boss, and they're expected to start digging up a field just outside the city of Detroit.

FBI agents, past and present, have told CNN affiliate WDIV that this is the best Hoffa tip they've ever received since the former teamster boss disappeared all the way back in 1975.

Our Mary Snow joins us now. And, Mary, I've got to say I've been in the news business 15, 17 years. Every year there's another tip. Every year, it seems, they start digging.

Why is this tip so much better than the others?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this tip comes from a man named Tony Zerilli. He claims to have been a mobster, and a law enforcement source with direct knowledge of this investigation tells CNN's Susan Candiotti that the FBI has spent months looking into Zerilli's claims before seeking a court OK to dig up a field north of Detroit in Oakland Township.

Now, the same source describes the field as relatively small, having waist-high grass, compares it to the size of a small party tent.

So what is behind this latest claim? Well, Zerilli, the alleged mobster, tells CNN affiliate WDIV a mafia enforcer told him that Hoffa was buried in this field as a temporary measure, that his remains were supposed to have been moved after the heat died down from the massive police search to find Hoffa initially, but the body apparently was never moved, according to his claims.

Now, Hoffa, as you all know, was last seen on July 30th, 1975, outside a Detroit-area restaurant.

And, John, you mentioned so many digs in the past, the last one coming just last year in the Detroit area and obviously didn't turn anything up. BERMAN: No, but I've got to say, Mary, it's riveting every time it happens, which is why it's great Mary will be following this throughout the day.

Stick with CNN for updates on this latest search for Jimmy Hoffa. Thanks so much, Mary.

The Supreme Court just struck down an Arizona law that required proof of citizenship to register to vote. The seven-to-two ruling said it interfered with a federal law aimed at making voter registration easier. Arizona had argued it cut down on voter fraud, but civil rights groups said it was an unconstitutional burden for voters.

The Supreme Court is still expected to hand down major rulings on same-sex marriage, affirmative action by the end of June. We could get more decisions coming Thursday.

Britain's Prince Philip, home right now. The 92-year-old prince walked out of a London hospital under his own power earlier this morning. He'd been in the hospital since having abdominal surgery less than two weeks ago. He will recuperate at Windsor Castle, a nice place to get better.

A Chinese dissident allowed to move to the U.S. says he's being told to hit the road. Chen Guangcheng made history last year when he was allowed to leave China.

He was welcomed with a fellowship at New York University, but now the blind dissident says the school wants him to leave by the end of the month, and he says it's due to pressure from the Chinese government.

NYU says that is not the case, that Chen's fellowship was for only one year.

Ahead here on the program, our take on "Daytime Justice," George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin and that 911 call, whose voice is really screaming in the background, and will the judge allow it into evidence?

Also, she once sat on death's door, but this morning, Paula Cooper, she's a free woman. How did that happen? And more to the point, should it have happened?

And what's he going to say now? Edward Snowden is on live -- online live right at this very moment. Will the snooper/leaker divulge more of his secrets and might he come out of the hiding?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: NSA leaker Edward Snowden is speaking live online this hour. Earlier, he leveled more explosive accusations, that the target of world international diplomacy now.

"The Guardian" newspaper, citing documents it got from Snowden, reports that British spies monitored e-mails and phone calls of diplomats at the 2009 G-20 summit in London.

Could Snowden now face charges in Britain? Here to talk with me about that, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

So, Paul, let me start with you. Snowden's been called a traitor. He's been accused of treason.

Listen to what Vice President Dick Cheney had to say this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I think he's a traitor. I am very, very worried that he still has additional information that he's released yet that the Chinese would welcome the opportunity and probably wiling to provide immunity for him or sanctuary for him, if you will, in exchange for what he presumably knows or doesn't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: People toss around the word "treason," Paul, but that seems like an awfully tough sell, legally speaking.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm not so sure, John, and I say that only because if you look back historically, the last time we had a situation that was somewhat comparable to this was Daniel Ellsberg leaking the Pentagon Papers.

He was charged with treason under the Espionage Act, so it's not without precedent.

Now I think we're a lot more open-minded about this stuff with the Internet and free information being exchanged these days, but from a technical standpoint, if this is information that hurts the United States and he was under contract not to reveal it, you could make that charge.

BERMAN: Joey, if the U.S. government wants to put Snowden in jail, is treason the best way to go here, or should they be looking at charges more in line with, say, what they did with Bradley Manning?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, what I think will happen, John, is they're going to evaluate all and any charge that is potentially appropriate here. And of course it could go back to what Paul was saying. I mean, we've had an Espionage Act in this country for almost 100 years. Woodrow Wilson signed it into effect. And so I think they're going to look at it very closely.

No, I know, John, there's a lot of supporters of him out there and of course he's shedding light on a critical issue about surveillance. No matter where you stand on the issue of whether you think the United States is too Big Brother, or if you think they're spying on each and every one of us, you have an obligation in the event that you're working for the National Security Agency or anybody else to preserve that. And to the extent that you leak it and it's critical, I think certainly it should subject him to charges which are very serious, and whether that be explored by way of treason, espionage, or something else, I do believe that the government will be looking very forcefully to do something to prevent this in the future.

BERMAN: Whatever charges they're seeking, Paul, it's important to note he's not here. They still have to get him.

CALLAN: Well, they have to get them. And, you know, getting back to the espionage thing, I think in the end probably the U.S. government will back off. They won't charge it that harshly because they've got to get a conviction and modern jurors maybe are not that receptive to the charge.

But yes, they've got to track him down, and then they have to extradite them. And getting China to extradite him to the United States or whatever country he winds up will not be an easy thing. Now he's online, answering questions, trying to become an international public hero, it's going to be very hard to get him back to the United States.

BERMAN: Legally speaking, this is just beginning. Paul Callan, Joey Jackson, thank you so much.

We're monitoring a huge case that has been in the white-hot spotlight in Florida for some time. George Zimmerman on trial for murder. But before anything can start there, we need a jury. We'll take you live to Florida with the latest on what's happening this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Five days now into jury selection in the George Zimmerman trial and still not a single juror has been chosen. So the lawyers are back at it again this morning, going through the pool one by one. However, they will take a break this afternoon to tackle a huge issue that is still very much up in the air -- can experts testify about who is screaming on 911 calls like this one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Does he look hurt to you?

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on. They're sending.

911 OPERATOR: So you think he's yelling help?

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm joined now by HLN legal correspondent Jean Casarez, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson. Jean, let me start with you. How much longer is the jury selection going to take?

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's taking a long time for various reasons. They're going through individual questioning and that can spark other questions once they find out how much they know about pretrial publicity, what their opinions may be.

I've got to tell you that the most in-depth questioning that I have heard from a prospective juror just happened minutes ago. And it was a woman, a white woman, probably in her 60s. She said that it was very unsettling when the protesters came to town because she lived through the race riots of the 1960s, the Rodney King case, and she is concerned that an unfavorable verdict will spark those protests again. And so the question was, well, what do you deem to be an unfavorable verdict? She said a verdict of not guilty for George Zimmerman. But she said she could be fair, not succumb to any pressure.

She's also helping to raise her grandsons with her daughter, and she said that they just don't understand how a young teenage boy could go to the 7-Eleven and be shot dead before he gets back to his apartment complex. And she cannot veer away from the opinion that George Zimmerman followed him even after the 911 operator said, "You don't have to do that," and George Zimmerman said, "OK." She doesn't believe it.

BERMAN: Wow, that's an awful lot of information to get from a prospective juror. Doesn't sound like one that may end up on that jury ultimately.

But let me turn now to the 911 calls that are a key piece of evidence potentially for the prosecution. Paul, let me ask you about this. How badly do they need the testimony about the 911 calls?

CALLAN: It's a fascinating issue because, you know, on the 911 call, you hear in the background somebody saying, "Help me, help me," and they're trying to say there's scientific evidence which would prove whether it was Trayvon Martin or Zimmerman. Now, obviously if it's Trayvon Martin screaming for help, Zimmerman is cooked. He's going to get convicted.

So to me, this is the most important piece of evidence in the case. I think the judge in the end will throw it out and say I'm not going to let scientific testimony in. But you know something? If the jury hears the tape, the voice is sort of a high-pitched voice, I think they'll think it's a child's voice. So I think it hurts Zimmerman whether you get scientific evidence or not. That's my view of it at this point.

BERMAN: Joey, Paul thinks that the judge will not allow it, but if the judge does allow that testimony, what does the defense team do then?

JACKSON: John, it's very critical, because at issue here is who was the aggressor. And certainly if you have somebody yelling, "Help, help, help," that seems to demonstrate that they're not being aggressive at all. And as a result of that, that they are compliant and don't want to die. So it is critical.

So the defense would have to reroute in that case. And I think what they would have to do -- because the jury is going to hear it. The only issue at this hearing, John, to be clear, is whether experts could opine as to who in that voice - whose voice is that? So they're going to hear it. They'll have to evaluate it. And I think the defense will have to rebut it in some to argue that there's no way possible to pinpoint with any accuracy or reliability that that was Trayvon Martin. That's the only way that they could defense against it.

CALLAN: And ironically, you know, you need scientific evidence to be helpful on that, to say that a high-pitched sound doesn't necessarily mean that it is a kid. So in one respect, maybe the defense trying to get this scientific evidence thrown out could hurt them in the end when they would like to call an FBI expert to say you can't identify based on sound.

BERMAN: One thing is clear, it is pivotal. And this, again, before a jury is even seated there, this pivotal decision from the judge.

Thank you, Jean Casarez, Paul Callan, Joey Jackson. Appreciate it. We'll be talking about this and whatever decision the judge makes when it happens.

Up next, the tragic fires in Colorado, the biggest that state has ever seen. Firefighters are finally getting the upper hand, opening the way for investigators to get a closer look at how it all started and whether the fires were started on purpose. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Some top stories now. Several families are grieving in Chicago this morning after a deadly weekend filled with gun violence. The city had seen a recent decrease in shootings, but this weekend seven people were killed, more than two dozens others were injured. That includes a 16-year-old who was shot and killed by someone riding by on a bicycle.

Iran's president-elect held his first press conference a few hours ago. Hassan Rouhani is considered a moderate, but he was staying firm that the U.S. must recognize Iran's right to have a nuclear program. He calls U.S.-Iran relations complicated and, quote, "an old wound," and said before any talks, the U.S. must promise to never interfere with Iran's domestic affairs.

Shocking tabloid photos show celebrity chef Nigella Lawson and her husband with his hand - her hand around his neck. She's now moved out and he's responding, according to British newspaper, "The Evening Standard," he said, "We were sitting outside a restaurant having an intense debate about the children and I held Nigella's neck repeatedly while attempting to emphasize my point. There was no grip, it was a playful tiff."

Again, it was he who had his hands around her neck. He said Lawson moved out because of all the paparazzi.

Good news today for people in the fire zone in Colorado Springs. Firefighters now have the upper hand on what has become the state's most destructive wildfire ever.

Our George Howell is in Colorado Springs live right now. And George, what are firefighters saying about the progress this morning? And when will some of those people who were forced to evacuate, when will they get to go home?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the first part of that question, I look out on the horizon, I don't see any smoke anywhere. That is great news. And the latest number we heard from investigators is that the fire is 65 percent contained. Keep in mind we got that update after there was a big rain shower that came through, so we could see that number go up in the next update that we get.

As far as people getting back to their homes, right now the focus is on fire suppression. Until that happens, until they're done with that, that's when we'll start looking at people going back into their homes. The timeline is still uncertain, but certainly people are anxious to be back into their homes, though people we speak to are patient about it.

BERMAN: How that fire started and whether it might have been arson, where does that investigation stand right now?

HOWELL: Right, well, we do know that an arson investigator is here with many others investigators. Arson is one of many different possibilities that these investigators will look into.