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Senate to Debate Immigration Reform; Interview with Kathy Bird; Superman's Christian Connection; NSA Chief to Detail Thwarted Terror Plots;

Aired June 18, 2013 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Supporters say the law will mean consistency for businesses across the state. Opponents say it puts a burden on poor and working mothers.

Road trip for a 50-foot wide, 15-ton magnet. Here's an animation of a move from the Department of Energy lab on Long Island to another in Illinois. The 3,200 mile ride includes travel by barge down the east coast and around Florida. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The Senate will debate immigration reform today. It likely won't be pretty. But then again, nothing is easy when it comes to immigration reform. Republicans who back reform are under fire from fellow conservatives, so they're adding amendments like English-only required.

Senator Marco Rubio is proposing an amendment that will require all immigrants to fluently read, write, and speak English before earning a green card. In other words, if you can't speak English, you can't legally work in the United States. In a statement Rubio says in part, quote "I think learning English is not just important for assimilation, it's important for economic success."

And that has caused a firestorm. Kathy Bird is with the Florida Immigrant Coalition. Good morning, Kathy.

KATHY BIRD, FLORIDA IMMIGRANT COALITION: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Kathy, right now, immigrants are just required to take a language course to work here. As a result, many immigrants never really learn English proficiently. Some Americans say that's not okay. Why should someone work here who can't speak the language?

BIRD: Yes, Carol, thank you so much for allowing us to be on the show today. The reality is that speaking English is already a requirement in order to become a citizen. It's always been that way. And that's the way that it should be.

You know, requiring for someone to speak English in order for them to legalize just makes the path to citizenship so much harder. This really comes down to -- it's not about English. It's about solving the problem of 11 million people that are currently living in our country that want to become Americans, that want to be part of our country. And the only way for them to be able to integrate, to learn English and to be part of our communities is to offer a path to legalization.

Senator Rubio's proposal could keep millions of people out. We don't understand. You know, his own parents migrated to this country from Cuba, were able to legalize, learn English, become U.S. citizens, and now they have a son who's a U.S. senator. Why would he want to keep people out? We don't understand where this is coming from.

COSTELLO: I think he's trying to please conservatives, frankly, and from what I understand, when you become a citizen, you have to prove you're taking courses in English, but you don't have the prove you can speak English, write English, read English, etc.

BIRD: No, as a matter of fact, in order to become a U.S. citizen, you do need to show English proficiency. It's not enough to just say that you're involved in a course.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: What about to get a green card? He's specifically talking about getting a green card, to work in the United States.

BIRD: Exactly. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about 11 million people that are already here that are part of our communities that in order for them to fully be able to integrate, they need to be able to legalize. To be able to register for English courses. To be able to drive their car to their English classes. This is an unnecessary burden. The current bill, as it is, is already a difficult path to citizenship. It's a 13-year path. It's expensive, and there's many, many barriers as it is. We don't understand why. Poll after poll after poll shows that American voters want to see this issue resolved this year. This is not going to resolve the issue. This is going to keep millions of people out.

Let's get this done. The time is now.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I think some Americans, going back to the English only, I think some Americans point to certain communities within the state of Florida, for example, where mostly Spanish is spoken, and that bothers some Americans. So perhaps this is what Senator Rubio was addressing. So this bill will pass.

BIRD: But the reality is if there's anything that our economic crisis has shown us is that we need to be able to connect and communicate with other emerging economies. This type of English-only thinking is what's going to keep our country backwards. It is a plus to be bilingual. I'm bilingual. My mother came to this country and she didn't speak English when she got here. She was able to become legalized, learn English and become a citizen. And now she's a business owner. I wouldn't be sitting here today if my mother hasn't been given the opportunity. And we're just asking for the same opportunity for everybody else.

COSTELLO: All right, Kathy Bird, with the Florida Immigrant Coalition. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

BIRD: Thank you so much, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Up next in the NEWSROOM --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to believe that you were sent here for a reason, and even if it takes the rest of your life, you owe it to yourself to find out what that reason is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The Man of Steel, Superman, a Jesus figure? Moviemakers push a superhero Bible in churches across the country.

We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not an S. From my world, it means hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here, it's an S. How about "super."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Superman. The latest adaptation of the Superman franchise, "Man of Steel" raked in more than $100 million for its opening weekend, not to mention all the marketing that went along with it. Action figures, cereal boxes, and even burgers, and maybe we'll see even a Superman/Jesus figure. Who knows? a Christian PR group is drawing on a higher power to sell the movie -- churches. Here's CNN's Erin McPike.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When "Superman, the Man of Steel" landed in theaters this weekend, it got a surprising boost from the pulpit. Warner Brothers partnered with a Christian public relations firm to get pastors across the country into advanced screenings of the film.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somewhere out there you have another father. He sent you here for a reason.

MCPIKE: The marketers have also prepared an entire sermon titled "Jesus: The Original Superhero" complete with clips from film, all aimed at point out how Superman could be interpreted as an allegory for Jesus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. You will help them accomplish wonders. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can actually see exactly what some people are projecting.

MCPIKE: Pastor Quentin Scott from Shiloh Christian Community Church in Baltimore attended one of the screenings.

PASTOR QUENTIN SCOTT, SHILOH CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY: There was an actual push to say hey, we're actually putting out something that speaks to your group and everything.

MCPIKE: Did you take it seriously at first? I mean, what did you think?

SCOTT: Truthfully, no. When I sat and actually looked at the movie, and started to see how it was the story of Christ and the love of God was weaved into the story, I was very excited.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the S stand for?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not an S. From my world, it's hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, here it's an S.

MCPIKE: All of this may sound strange, but Hollywood has long known that churches can make movie miracles occur. Not just with overtly religious movies like "The Passion of the Christ," but also with general family-oriented fare. The formula, get pastors talking and congregations start walking right into the box office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be, Clark.

TED BAEHR, MOVIEGUIDE: I think it's a very good thing that Hollywood is paying attention to the church as a marketplace.

MCPIKE: Ted Baehr runs Movieguide.

BAEHR: Where it gets sticky is when they try to manipulate the market and where it gets sticky is when the churches try to manipulate Hollywood. So both of those become problematic. I think in this case, you've got a good match.

SCOTT: Here we have a message about Superman, and really an underlying message about the original Superman, Jesus Christ.

MCPIKE: Are you concerned that this studio was using you and religious groups to sell the movie?

SCOTT: They're using us, but in fact, we're using them. If you give me another opportunity to talk to someone about Jesus Christ and I can do it because of your movie, that's a win for me. Because it is about spreading the gospel.

MCPIKE: Lots of other groups have seen allegorical connections as well, like Jews. Of course, Superman is seen by Jewish by some and the original writers are Jewish, too. Be sure to also add that Warner Brothers studios, like CNN, is owned by Time Warner as well. Erin McPike, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: But not every pastor in America is comfortable with Superman as a Jesus figure. P.J. Wenzel is a deacon and Sunday school teacher at Dublin Baptist Church near Columbus, Ohio, right

P.J. WENZEL, DEACON, DUBLIN BAPTIST CHURCH: Yep. That's right.

COSTELLO: You have your doubts. You said, quote, "any pastor who thinks using Man of Steel ministry resources as a good Sunday morning strategy must have no concept of how high the stakes are, or very little confidence in the power of God's word and God's spirit."

Still, if a movie can persuade a kid to go to church, where's the harm?

WENZEL: Yes. Well, I think Carol that's a great question and thanks for having me on. You know, it's really about what is the goal here. What do pastors really want? And you know is it going to be about the Bible and Christ, who in and of himself is a very compelling figure, in fact, the most compelling figure of all time. Or is it going to be about something just to draw people into the pulpit?

I mean if we want to entertain our congregants, then why not put an xBox in every row too, right? So it's really about what's the heart of the message. And -- and that's kind of what I'm getting at here.

COSTELLO: Well the parallels --

(CROSSTALK)

WENZEL: The stakes are really high.

COSTELLO: The parallels are just kind of interesting. And this is just what I'm getting from --

WENZEL: Sure.

COSTELLO: -- you know from certain people online who like this idea. I mean Superman --

WENZEL: Yes.

COSTELLO: -- is born on another planet, somewhere, Kryptonite, we know that. But he was sent to save his species.

WENZEL: Sure.

COSTELLO: He was raised by surrogate parents and at the age of 33, he sacrifices himself for humanity, right.

WENZEL: Yes, yes.

COSTELLO: So it sounds an awful lot like Jesus. So I suppose maybe at Sunday school -- (CROSSTALK)

WENZEL: Sure.

COSTELLO: -- you could say here are the parallels. But there is a -- there is a spiritual Superman and his name is Jesus?

WENZEL: Sure. Well yes I mean and Carol, like any other good allegory, it kind of runs its course after a little while. Listen I've seen the movie. It's very entertaining. But it's a lot of hype for a movie that's really not that great. And -- and it's not as compelling as the real story, too.

So you talk about parallels, right? And parallels, you know sure, there are some messianic overtones, but look at the difference. Superman comes from another planet to save people from who -- from criminals. From -- from folks who are out to destroy them, get them.

But Jesus comes to do something completely different. He actually comes to do exactly the opposite of what was expected of him. When he came, people thought he was going to be sort of a political military hero to save folks. But you know what Jesus came to do -- and this is the gospel. The gospel is that Jesus came to save us from ourselves, from our sins and from the wrath of God that was on us. So it's a little bit different, and really where the parallels break down is at the crucial point in the gospel, which is that you know when people come to church, you know, they're there to figure out what it is that Jesus has done and it's not just to save them from you know oppressive outside political tyrannical rulers, but it's to save them from their own selves, their sins and that's the major difference so that's what the breakdown is right.

COSTELLO: So I take it you won't be showing the Superman movie in your Sunday school classes.

WENZEL: Well listen when you've got the word of God which is the most compelling narrative ever written and it's the real true power that changes and saves lives there's really no reason to -- to go to a secondary sort of material.

COSTELLO: All right. P.J. Wenzel, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

WENZEL: Hey, thanks, Carol. I appreciate it.

COSTELLO: And you can hear more -- you can read more about this story on CNN's belief blog at CNN.com/belief.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

COSTELLO: The NSA chief heading to Capitol Hill, probably already there right now. CNN has learned that Keith Alexander, General Keith Alexander, the head of the NSA, is coming up with examples of just how the agency's programs have stopped terror plots. Everybody has been wondering. Chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash is here with more.

So, Dana, what will he say?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was told by a congressional source, informed about what Keith Alexander plans to do, that he is going to talk about two specific plots, declassify information about two specific plots that allegedly were helped -- that were thwarted, at least in part, by these programs.

Now you remember Keith Alexander, the NSA director, said last week in open testimony that dozens of terror plots were stopped at least in part by these programs. There has been an internal debate going on since then about just what they can declassify and the sort of the rub has been proving to the American people these programs are worth it when it comes to civil liberties, but also continuing to protect sources and methods, which are so incredibly valuable in the intelligence community.

So the intelligence chairman who's holding this hearing, he's been really the one who has been pushing the administration, pushing the intelligence committee to reveal information again to prove to Americans that these programs are actually worth it.

It's worth it for the government to gather all this data about their phone records, gather data about Internet use. So that's why we expect at least him to come forward with two examples.

Now we are going to be listening carefully, Carol. And the reason is because we've been talking to members of the intelligence community -- intelligence committee, forgive me -- Democrats like Mark Udall, who say they have been briefed on a lot of these terror plots, and they just don't buy it. They don't think that these programs, which they say actually infringe on Americans' civil liberties too much have contributed that much to thwarting these terror plots.

So we're, again, going to be listening very carefully. I'm guessing there's going to be some pretty tough questioning from some of the skeptics on this committee about whether or not these plots really were that instrumental.

COSTELLO: Yes. Ok. So Dana, you're going to stick around, because that house hearing starts in just about seven minutes. And Chairman Rogers is going to give an opening statement, should be quite interesting. And then we'll have (inaudible) -- and then we'll have General Keith Alexander testifying.

BASH: Exactly.

COSTELLO: So you're going to stick around. Thank you very much, Dana Bash.

NEWSROOM will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The Boston Bruins shut out the Chicago Blackhawks last night to take a 2-1 lead in the Stanley Cup finals.

Andy Scholes is here with "Bleacher Report". Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, BLEACHER REPORT: Hey good morning Carol. You didn't have to stay up too late to catch the end of this one. After playing four overtimes in the first two games, The Bruins made an early night of game 3 as they beat Blackhawks in regulation.

Boston took the lead in the second period on a goal from Daniel Paille and then they added another on the power play. The ageless one Jaromir Jagr -- nice pass to Patrice Bergeron. That made it 2-0, Bruins. Boston goes on to win by that score.

These two teams are already starting to get tired of each other. They started fighting with just nine seconds left to go in the game. Game 4 of the series is tomorrow night in Boston.

It's do or die for the Miami heat tonight as they host the Spurs in Game 6 of the NBA finals. San Antonio is just one win away from winning their fifth NBA title. The Heat, meanwhile, they're trying to become just the fourth team in the last 18 years to come back from a 3-2 deficit in the finals.

Good news for Miami is that they haven't lost back-to-back games since mid-January. Bad news is they haven't won back to back games in nearly a month. Game 6 tips off tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

There's nothing quite like about getting a foul ball at a baseball came especially if you're a kid. Last night during one of the college world series games, this lucky girl -- Carol, look how happy she is.

COSTELLO: I'd be happy too like that.

SCHOLES: Yes, it's like me with a winning power ball ticket. This is where it all goes wrong. This poor little boy, just watching all the action, look she's going to catch him with an elbow. He gets fruit punched right in the face -- the poor guy. Didn't get a baseball and he doesn't have anything left to drink now as you got it --

COSTELLO: She's not giving up her baseball, are you kidding?

SCHOLES: She sure wasn't.

COSTELLO: Hello, punch in the face -- not a punch but punch -- you get what I mean.

Hey did you leave something out. Max Scherzer, ten wins?

SCHOLES: Hey he's 10 and 0 best in the American League, right.

COSTELLO: Yes.

SCHOLES: He's on a roll right now..

COSTELLO: Thank you, Andy.

The next hour of "CNN NEWSROOM" after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello.

We begin this morning in Washington --