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Autism and Pollution; NSA Defends Surveillance

Aired June 18, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Secrets no more, the feds defending the NSA surveillance program now revealing that they helped disrupt more than 50 terror attacks, including a plot against the New York Stock Exchange.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(voice-over): A new study suggests a link between autism and pollution. We will break it down.

And a search suddenly heats up for the Times Square bike bomber. New video services of the person who tried to bomb a military station in Gotham.

Plus, shock jobs fired for their jokes about someone with Lou Gehrig's disease. Is it fair?

And pursuing a cold case, crews exhuming the body of a girl found decapitated 30 years ago. You will hear why it's happening right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: And we continue on, hour two. Thanks for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Breaking news out of Ohio. A woman and her child are free after being held captive for two years. Here is what we're learning. This all happened in a place called Ashland, Ohio, about two hours south of Cleveland. At least three people are under arrest, as we learned last hour, now facing federal charges for what prosecutors are calling modern-day slavery. Investigators say the suspects forced the mother to hit her child while it was being videotaped.

We are also told the suspects threatened to show police the video if she ever tried to talk. It kind of gets worse. According to these charges, the suspects used beatings, pit bulls, snakes, and threats of death to keep them from running.

We're told the mom and the child are recovering right now. I talked to the Ashland police chief, David Marcelli, just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MARCELLI, ASHLAND, OHIO, POLICE CHIEF: October of last year, the mother was charged with shoplifting, and the officers that took that complaint detected that there was other issues aside from the shoplifting.

We have had numerous involvements with these -- this group of people. And because they were astute enough and paid attention to what the woman was saying, they picked up that there was something wrong. And in the course of that investigation and through the course of interviewing her, they discovered the rest of these facts slowly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: In talking to that police chief, he told me the suspects were indicted today. They are now facing federal charges. And we're going to get you that information as soon as we get it here into us at CNN.

The evidence is now public that U.S. government snooping works to stop terrorists. So, this has gone now way beyond metadata, numbers- crunching, officials talking in general terms. Folks, we have names, faces and targets. Details were declassified and then put on the record this morning at this Capitol Hill hearing. The chief of the National Security Agency and leaders of the FBI named four separate plots that they say were thwarted because of the surveillance programs that a lot of critics are calling a mass invasion of privacy.

And it is just four, they say, of many more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. KEITH ALEXANDER, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY: In recent years, the information gathered from these programs provided the U.S. government with critical leads to help prevent over 50 potential terrorist events in more than 20 countries around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. So here are the plots that were stopped.

First up, New York subway, an intercepted e-mail from Pakistan led to Najibullah Zazi, who confessed to a plot to bomb the system. You also had a plot against the New York Stock Exchange, the NSA flagging an extremist in Yemen who led them to Khalid Ouazzani -- forgive me. He provided information in support to a plot to bomb the Exchange.

Next, Danish newspaper, NSA found that American David Headley was working on a plot to bomb the paper that published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. And the fourth, this case here, one that the FBI had closed, NSA actually reopened because of what analysts uncovered. And officials said that the U.S. was able to -- quote, unquote -- "disrupt terrorist activity."

Again, these are four, according to officials, of some 50-plus plots.

I want to go to two strong voices on what the NSA has been doing.

Julie Myers Wood is a former assistant security -- assistant security homeland -- let me -- I don't think it's security. I think it should be secretary of homeland security. Forgive me.

JULIE MYERS WOOD, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY FOR U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: That's all right, Brooke. Hello.

BALDWIN: And president, hello, of Guidepost Solutions. Typo.

And Ben Ferguson, radio host of the show "The Ben Ferguson Show."

So, welcome back to both six you. I know we did this one day last week.

BEN FERGUSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thanks for having us.

BALDWIN: So, we just wanted to follow up and come kind of full circle.

So, Ben Ferguson, you're up at bat first.

FERGUSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Did the government today reveal too little or too much?

FERGUSON: I don't think that they did really either of those things.

I think the American people are looking to these leaders and saying, OK, can you show us legitimate cause and make our fears be calmed down by showing us that in fact you are using this information for good, instead of just targeting Americans and my phone records?

And I'm not sure they did enough today to somehow make people feel more safe or feel more comfortable with these programs. Some of the information they talked about today, I think a lot of Americans are going to say, this is kind of captain obvious information. Of course, we know the government is attacking and trying to protect Americans and interests in bombings and everything else, but you still didn't speak to, what are you doing with all of our information and are you keeping it?

And more importantly, are there people in the government that can abuse this information?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So you're still frustrated with the -- with just the simple act of what they have been doing for the last seven years vs. the fact that, you know, perhaps a lot of fears are allayed today because these plots have been foiled because of this program? You're still stuck on that? I just want to make sure I'm hearing you clearly.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: I'm stuck on the fact that it still seems like there's not enough information on what they're doing with information that's not connected to terrorism and terrorists' phone numbers.

BALDWIN: You want more information?

FERGUSON: Yes. And most Americans feel the same way. We expect you to go after information connected to terrorists, but I don't think the majority of Americans feel as if this is a targeted program. It's too broad-reaching and it's taking everyone's information, specifically those that have no connection to terrorism.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

Julie, you have defended the program. What do you make of the news that came out today?

WOOD: I think the news was very significant.

They're talking about 50 plots, some very significant plots that have been disrupted. I think one of the most important things is that there was an investigation that was shut down and then reopened because of this program.

I agree with Ben that the story's not open -- over. We should continue to have more explanations. We should continue to explore whether or not our laws are strong enough, but I think the news this morning was very encouraging, frankly, to see all the things and all the ways they have used this information to protect America.

BALDWIN: Now, I know there are people out there -- and I talked to a former CIA operative last hour. My question to him was, look, this is four plots out of 50-plus plots. Do you think that the American government should say, OK, great, we trust you, we believe you, we don't need anymore plots declassified or more information to the public?

Should we trust -- should we be trusting the government that what they're saying goes? Should we, Julie?

WOOD: I mean, I think there's a lot of mistrust in the government overall, based on some of the activities that have happened the last couple of years.

BALDWIN: Yes.

WOOD: You can't blame folks like Ben for being frustrated.

At the same time, I think General Alexander had a great point this morning when he said we can't reveal every plot and all the details of every plot we have disrupted. If we do that, we're giving the terrorists too much information. So, I think there's a balance there.

FERGUSON: Hey, Brooke. Brooke...

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: Brooke, I think one of the interesting things is, is, if you asked the American people if they trusted the four individuals that are sitting there in front of Congress today, I think the majority of Americans would say yes. The problem is they're not the ones that are actually day in and day outgoing going through and mining this information. And that's where that core issue of trust comes up is, can I trust the people that work under you to not abuse this power and use it for possible political reasons, which we saw with the IRS?

This administration right now has a major trust issue with the American people and that's something they have not experienced before.

BALDWIN: Hang on. Let me just jump in because I think just a layer to this story is also the timing, because last night there was the big interview, president of the United States sitting down with Charlie Rose right on PBS, which, full transparency, listen, you know that that was taped before the president left for Ireland.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But let's first listen to a quick sound bite. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've stood up a privacy and civil liberties oversight board, made up of independent citizens including some fierce civil libertarians. I will be meeting with them.

And what I want to do is to set up and structure a national conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on. Hang on. Here he is. He's defending the NSA program. Let me just get to my other point, which is you had this hearing last night. Then less than 24 hours later, you have an intricately orchestrated hearing with all this new detail. Obviously no coincidence, Julie. Now, what do you make of the strategy here?

WOOD: Well, certainly, ever since the first leaks happened, they have gone back and looked, what can we connect? What can we show that has been disrupted based on these programs? And so they have really tried to build that case.

But I thought the president's point about the privacy and civil liberties oversight board was very significant. That was a board that was imposed by Congress, not by President Obama. And that's a board that's frankly been quite inactive. And so I think it's interesting that now he's going to bring this board together and now use this board in a different way. And let's see what that board is going to do in this instance.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I hear you, Ben. What's your but? I hear you. FERGUSON: Brooke, boards I think mean nothing.

And the proof of it is the president appointed a job creation board that met a number -- a total of zero times. So I don't think that's going to make the American people go, oh, well, you picked some of your buddies and they're now on this board, and that's going to fix our problem.

He had a job creation board, and they never even met before he dissolved it. So I don't think people think a citizen board is going to be able to figure out what's going too far and maybe what's not going too far when you're dealing with the NSA, for goodness' sakes.

BALDWIN: Julie, I want you to respond to that.

(CROSSTALK)

WOOD: Oh, thank you. Thank you.

This is a bipartisan board. These individuals have terms that last over several years. We can't just rely on the board. That's one piece. We need Congress to look at the laws. We need the FISA court and we need the executive branch all to act. Together, those can create appropriate controls.

BALDWIN: All right, Julie Myers Wood and Ben Ferguson, thanks, as always. We will see you again, I'm sure, soon.

WOOD: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Just in to us, more on our breaking story. We have just learned that Chrysler and the U.S. governments have resolved their standoff over that request that Chrysler recall more than 2.5 million Jeep Grand Cherokees and Jeep Libertys.

Safety experts say that the models are at risk of catching fire when they're hit from behind.

So, I want to bring in both Alison Kosik and Rene Marsh.

Alison, first to you. Tell me more about the news. Why did this happen?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, so, first of all, the stare-down that's been happening between government regulators and Chrysler, it is over.

So, after this ongoing saga, what Chrysler finally agreed to do is inspect these vehicles and if necessary it's agreed to provide an upgrade to fix the problem. This is a recall of 2.7 million vehicles. And here's which vehicles they are. It's the 1993 through 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokees and the 2002 through 2007 Jeep Liberty.

Now, one thing Chrysler continues to say even though it's going to go with the program and do what the National Highway Traffic Transportation -- NHTSA, Safety Administration, NHTSA, it's going to go along and do what NHTSA wants, Chrysler does continue to say that these vehicles are not defective. In fact, from the beginning of all of this, Chrysler has said that NHTSA's conclusions were based on an incomplete analysis of the data, that Chrysler met all the safety standards at the time that the vehicles came out.

But it does say that the Chrysler Group recognizes that this matter has raised concerns for its customers and what Chrysler wants to do is take further steps to provide additional measures to supplement the safety of its vehicles. So, there you go. People will be able to go ahead and bring their cars in -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's talk about the further steps. Rene Marsh, what if you are the owner or the driver of one of these 2.7 million Jeeps. What do you do?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you, Chrysler is saying that if you do own one of these Jeeps, you will be notified to bring your vehicle in for an inspection.

Once you do that, they will give it a visual inspection and they will determine whether you will get that upgrade. So you're asking what is the upgrade that will be made to the vehicles that are in question? Well, I'm told that the upgrade that both parties agreed to is a trailer hitch. So when you think about a vehicle, you see that little metal piece on the back of the vehicle if you want to drag a trailer or something like that, that is what we're talking about.

I spoke with one expert who says this could actually help. Essentially, the thought here is that that metal piece will just add some support to that fuel tank, which is in the rear of the vehicle. That added support hopefully would prevent another fiery crash, but that same expert saying that this is a Band-Aid approach to an already bad situation.

But think about it. It's an old vehicle. They can't move the tank anywhere else. So, this is the best-case scenario for them at this point, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Rene Marsh and Alison Kosik, thank you so much for the update.

Again, if you need us to go back through some of the vehicles and specifics that are recalled, just go to CNN.com for that information.

Coming up, let me tell you this is a story that has people across the country divided, these three sports talk radio hosts fired after what they said about a former NFL player living with Lou Gehrig's disease. Did they go too far? We will talk to one of the fired deejays about what he said and how he's responding to critics. He will join me here in studio seven. Do not miss that.

Plus, a new look at an old murder case. Police exhume the body of a young girl killed more than three decades ago, looking for new leads. Next, we will talk to a man who was one of the first investigators to the scene and is still working to find this killer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The year was 1983. A little girl's body was found in a vacant building in Clemens, Missouri. She had been sexually assaulted, strangled and decapitated. And authorities had hoped someone would recognize her clothes. But she was never identified and her killer was never found.

Police only say that this girl was African-American, was somewhere between 8 and 11 years old. So, this unidentified girl was buried and over the years, three decades, to be precise, the cemetery became abandoned and run down. In 2009, police went to exhume her body so they could give her a proper burial, but they couldn't find the body.

Now with the help of old photographs of the cemetery, they have now recovered this body, exhumed this body. And the Saint Louis City Medical Examiner's Office hopes it can use modern technology to finally identify this little girl and find the killer.

Cold case investigator and former Saint Louis Police Detective Joe Burgoon is joining me from Saint Louis.

Detective Burgoon, nice to see you. My goodness, you were one of the original detectives working this case. And here we are 30 years later. How does that sit with you?

JOE BURGOON, FORMER MISSOURI DETECTIVE: Well, it's been a while. It's been quite a while.

And different leads came in and then new detectives took the case over. And we kept in contact. And there's also the original captain, commanding officer at the time, he retired as a colonel, LeRoy Atkins. He's still alive and he's still interested in this case.

BALDWIN: So here they have 30 years later exhumed this little girl's body based upon -- here we are in 2013 -- new technology that will be used to try to identify her. Can you tell me a little bit about how they're hoping to do that?

BURGOON: Well, basically, the plan, from what I understand is they want to ship her body down to the University of North Texas in Fort Worth, Texas, who is part of the NamUs Initiative. That's part of the federal government for unidentified dead to try and identify this child.

BALDWIN: Take me back to the very beginning. Here's this little girl found with just, what, a T-shirt, decapitated.

BURGOON: Yes, she had a yellow -- yellow V-neck sweater.

BALDWIN: Yes. You remember it that well. How invested in this case have you been over years?

BURGOON: Well, we -- you know, we tried to stay -- we do stay interested. We tried and kept abreast through looking for similar crimes throughout the United States.

We have had the FBI involved with their VICAP program. And we used to send out telegraphs -- teletypes, rather, every year on the anniversary of her death to see if any department had a similar crime. This was sent throughout the United States.

BALDWIN: Hopefully, Detective, they will be able to identify her with this new technology and, thus, track down the person who did this to her.

Joe Burgoon in Saint Louis, Joe, thank you so much.

BURGOON: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Day two of testimony from the man nicknamed the Executioner. Today, he's describing some of the specific details of murders he says alleged mob boss Whitey Bulger had him carry out. Live in Boston next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In the trial of the reputed mob boss James "Whitey" Bulger, the man described as Bulger's partner in crime takes the stand for a second day.

He is John Martorano. He's the first of Bulger's top associates to take the stand and he is revealing gritty details about murders Bulger allegedly was involved in. Back in 2008, while Bulger was still on the run, this guy talked to CBS' "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Did you keep count of how many people you killed?

JOHN MARTORANO, WITNESS: Never, never, never, until in the end I never realized it was that many.

QUESTION: How many?

MARTORANO: A lot. Too many.

QUESTION: Do you have a number?

MARTORANO: I have confessed to 20 in court.

QUESTION: You sure you remembered them all?

MARTORANO: I hope so.

QUESTION: Did you always kill people by shooting them?

MARTORANO: I think I stabbed one guy.

QUESTION: But you like guns?

MARTORANO: Well, it's the easiest way, I think. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Deborah Feyerick is live for us in Boston.

And, Deborah, you have been inside the courtroom. What was it like today? What details are you learning?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, you used the word gritty. In fact, at one point, it rounded the corner to outright sickening listening to John Martorano testify.

He seems to have had a change of heart after killing his 20th victim. The reason is because the person was a friend of his. This was somebody who he had actually killed an Oklahoma businessman for, because the businessman was refusing to sell a jai alai business.

And so Martorano traveled to Oklahoma City. He picked up a suitcase that had traveled, that had been shipped by Greyhound Bus. It was filled with machine guns, masks, revolvers, and then he met the businessman and shot him between the eyes. This is what he testified to.

The friend was grateful, actually gave him $50,000 for carrying out this hit, but then when Bulger and others realized that the friend was talking about this murder, they decided it was too risky so they were going to have to take him out as well. And Martorano actually felt guilty about it.

In fact, he said -- quote -- "I felt really bad. I had just killed a friend I had risked my life for in Oklahoma."

What he did is he actually lured the friend to Florida, picked him up at the airport and then got into the back seat and killed him with a shot to the back of the head, dumping his friend's body in the trunk of his own car. And listening to this, Martorano said that he was remorseful, that it is not something that he wanted to do. He didn't like killing. He just killed because that was part of his business, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What a trial, what a gritty trial, to use your word, to be covering it. We're following, Deborah Feyerick for us in Boston, Whitey Bulger.

Coming up next, the story that has everyone talking, radio shock jobs fired for making a joke about a player with Lou Gehrig's disease. Was it fair? Should they have been fired? One of those hosts joins me live right here in studio. Don't miss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)