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Interview with Sen. Marco Rubio; Rubio Backs Border Security Plan; Teen Charged in Wrestling Death; Torre's Daughter Catches Falling Baby; Deaf Boy Hears for First Time; Gay Conversion Group Shuts Down; Exodus International's Leader Says He is Sorry; Bombing Victim Vows to Run Again

Aired June 20, 2013 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. I want to get right to it here. CNN is talking with a key player on immigration reform as this issue goes front and center in the next hour. That is when a group of senators expected to announce a deal on a major issue. We're talking about border security and how that wraps into immigration reform.

I want to bring in our Dana Bash. Dana, you just had an interview with Senator Marco Rubio. Obviously, he's got some skin in the game on all of this as well, but tell us where are we in the process of immigration reform and the possibility of a deal brokered on the Senate side?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's start there with the news right now and that is we're waiting. Probably in about an hour, we're going to see the key players in this immigration deal come to the Senate floor and describe it. And the it is a bunch of conservative senators, the key players are senators Jovan and Corker, who came up with a deal to beef up the border, they say, in a way that they put more border agents there, that they complete the fence along the southern border. And that is all an attempt to appeal to conservative senators to try to get ultimately the vote in the Senate to the high watermark, the highest watermark they can get, in order to pressure the House to take this up. So, that kind of sums up where we are right now.

As you mentioned, a key player in all this is Senator Marco Rubio from Florida. Key because he is somebody who people are looking at for 2016 as a potential presidential run, but also because he is a Hispanic Republican who is trying to kind of bridge both worlds of the conservative base who are not happy with this and trying to lure Hispanic voters back into the Republican fold. Listen to the conversation that we had in the hallway just moments ago.

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BASH: Senator, as you well know, there are a number of fellow conservatives out there who say that this is just a smoke screen and it doesn't change the fact that what they believe you have agreed to is amnesty for illegal immigrants. SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Well, first of all, anyone who's in this country illegally is going to have to undergo a background check, they're going to have to pay a substantial fine for having violated our laws, and in return for that, the only thing they get different from what they have now is they're going to have to start paying taxes. And we'll know who they are. Right now, they're here already. We're not talking about new people. We're talking about people that are living here now, that have been here at least since December of 2011. And the only thing they're going to do now that they're not doing is they're going to be paying taxes and undergoing a background check and paying a fine.

But beyond that, we have very significant border measures that are now going to be amended on to the bill which basically says that no one can become a legal permanent resident of the United States until we add -- until we complete 700 miles of real border fencing, until we add -- double the size of the border patrol to 40,000 by adding 20,000 new agents, until e-verify is fully implemented, an entry-exit tracking system to prevent visa overstays is fully implemented, and until a very dramatic technology plan is fully implemented.

BASH: How many votes do you think that this ultimately is going to get you? Obviously, you probably know more than anybody. You've been working your fellow Republican colleagues.

RUBIO: Well, I think -- I don't know the exact number, but I think it will bring a substantial number of conservatives on board.

BASH: Enough to get through the House or even to get the House to take it up?

RUBIO: Listen, the House is in a whole other process and I'm not in the position to tell the House what to do. They're going to have their own product, they're going to have their own views and we're going to wait for them to do their part of it and we'll see where we go from there. Our job now is to get the strongest possible legislation and measures out of the Senate.

BASH: You understand the politics of this probably better than anybody within the Republican Party. For someone like you from a diverse state with likely higher ambition politically, this is important. For somebody who is in a conservative very red state voting for something like immigration reform hurts them rather than helps them. How do you -- how do you overcome that?

RUBIO: Well, I understand why conservatives are upset. They've seen all these promises in the past that haven't been delivered. That's why we're saying that nobody can become a legal permanent resident of the United States unless these border measures pass, all five of them. And that's why we have to do it that way because otherwise it won't happen. And that's been the evidence in the past. I understand why people are frustrated. I do. I -- we shouldn't do this for politics. I can tell you politically, this is as much a negative as it is a positive. People are really upset and I respect it and I understand it. By the other token, though, this is hurting America. This should be about helping the United States. And if nothing passes, then this disaster we have now, that's what's going to stay in place.

BASH: It's a negative as much as a positive, is it a risk for you politically?

RUBIO: Well, I don't know about for me, but certainly there are people that are upset. I mean, there are people that I agree with on every other issue who are mad at us for having gotten involved in this issue and primarily they're just distrustful that the government will do its part. And that's why we have to guarantee that it happens by saying that no one who has violated our immigration laws will become a legal permanent resident unless all of these things, the agents, the fence, the technology, the e-verify and the entry-exit tracking system. Unless all five happen, no one who's violated our immigration laws can become a legal permanent resident.

BASH: I know you have to get to a vote. One last question. In all candor, how much of your personal credibility and viability is on the line here? I mean, nobody talks about this without talking about Marco Rubio in the same breath politically.

RUBIO: Oh, I haven't -- I honestly have not analyzed it that way. If I --

BASH: Oh, come on.

RUBIO: No, because if I wanted to do something political, the easiest thing to do politically is just not deal with the issue, you know? Give a couple speeches and not play and get involved in trying to solve it. I'm dealing with this because this is hurting our country badly. I have studied this issue for two years, and I know we have to solve it. If we don't solve this issue, the illegal immigrants are still going to be here illegally, people will continue to come in, people will continue to overstay their visas, and our -- and our broken immigration system will still stay in place. That's why I'm doing it.

BASH: Thank you, sir. I know you have to go to a vote.

RUBIO: Thank you.

BASH: Appreciate it.

RUBIO: Thanks.

BASH: Bye-bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, Suzanne, just to reset where we are right now, we are waiting at the top of the hour for the senators who have crafted this what they say is a compromise, a breakthrough among Republicans, and also they're dealing with the bipartisan negotiators on immigration to beef up border security in the hopes of getting more Republicans, more senators to ultimately vote for immigration reform.

We talked about the dynamic in the house and that can -- it cannot be understated -- or excuse me, it can't be overstated. We have to underscore how important the House is because it is obviously run by Republicans. John Boehner, the speaker, was asked about the dynamic there. And it kind of tells you all he needs to know. He started comparing immigration reform to Obama care, essentially saying that there's just a distrust in this country about how the government can handle itself and handle things like what the conservatives are pushing, beefing up the -- beefing up the border.

So, the bottom line is that the dynamic in the House, even if the House speaker wanted to get this through, --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

BASH: -- he's got to deal with a -- with a caucus with the Republican rank and file, many of whom -- again, as I mentioned to Rubio, who are in these very red districts --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

BASH: -- who they vote for immigration reform and they run the risk of getting primaried by fellow conservatives.

MALVEAUX: Yes, and it's interesting, Dana, because you and I both covered the White House under President Bush.

BASH: Exactly.

MALVEAUX: It's almost like Groundhog's Day. Really, where --

BASH: It really is.

MALVEAUX: -- the Republicans against his plan because they really wanted to deal with border security first and then deal with citizenship, never happened. Dana, thanks. We're going to bring you back and, of course, we're going to have a panel straight ahead to talk more about this. This is something that is fast moving and developing out of Washington.

And investors, they don't like what they see today. We are looking at the stocks dropping 200 points this morning, about 224 right now. Haven't made up ground yet. We can see it there, the Dow hovering around 14,000, down 220 points. I want to bring in Felicia Taylor from the New York Stock Exchange to tell us why is this happening first of all. What is the big move that we're seeing this today?

FELICIA TAYLOR, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a number of concerns out there in the marketplace. And, you know, I keep using this phrase, but what they're doing is sort of re-pricing the risk of when that tapering is actually going to begin. And those are the words that -- you know, we didn't actually hear that from the Federal Reserve chairman, Ben Bernanke, in his testimony yesterday.

But, nevertheless, he has hinted at the fact that it could begin in sort of the next six months or maybe into the beginning of 2014. It's those hints that traders are worried about. It's not like we didn't know this was coming. You can almost think of it as a -- as a little bit of a trial. He's sort of testing the waters to see how the marketplace can react. And, frankly, this 200-point drop is a fairly normal range for this kind of thing. It could have been a lot worse. I mean, yes, the volatility has accelerated, there's no question about that. But this is not a panic selloff. The bears have stepped into the marketplace, and they are now obviously much more in control.

But, frankly, with levels that we've seen with, like, the S&P up 13 percent this year, this isn't a horrible pullback. It's in somewhat normal ranges. Of course, we're seeing a selloff. People are taking profits off the table. But hopefully the marketplace is going to understand it needs to go back to fundamentals, watch the economic data come back. And, again, this market should be data-dependent, not dependent on the Federal Reserve.

MALVEAUX: And, Felicia, for those who really aren't big investors but they are looking at their own 401Ks, they're looking at whether or not it's going to be more expensive to buy food or pay for their homes, how is this going to impact them?

TAYLOR: Well, that's a very interesting question because, obviously, as you look at your 401K and that, you know, slips back a little bit that always is a concern. When it comes to inflation, that is not of concern in the marketplace as of yet. Certainly, you and I are seeing higher food prices in grocery stores and home prices are accelerating in certain locations of the United States but not in everywhere. I mean, there are still places that are struggling quite significantly. And is it really that easy to get a mortgage to begin with?

And also, people are now concerned about something called deflation. And that is actually a decrease in prices. That usually accompanies what is not a strong recovery. And that would be worrisome for the marketplace. So, that kind of fear or uncertainty is now out there and being discussed by traders and investors.

MALVEAUX: All right. Felicia Taylor, thank you so much.

Coming up, a 13-year-old boy, that's right, accused of killing his half-sister by practicing WWE wrestling style moves on her. Well, he's now facing murder charges.

And then, the daughter of former Yankees manager, Joe Torre, makes a nice catch. She was in the right place at the right time, caught a child falling from a building. You're going to hear from her coming up next.

And, a child born deaf hears for the first time. Amazing story up ahead. This is the CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, daddy loves you. Daddy loves you. Daddy --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He heard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear daddy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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MALVEAUX: A group of senators reaches a deal now that could add momentum for the push for immigration reform. Now, it is designed to overcome the objections of some Republicans who are concerned about border security. The deal, here's what it looks like, would strengthen security requirements in the immigration bill. It would double the size of the border patrol from the current level of 21,000 agents. It also calls for 700 miles of fence along the border. Now, here is what Florida Senator Marco Rubio said in our interview with Dana Bash just this last hour about the politics behind this.

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RUBIO: I understand why people are frustrated. I do. We shouldn't do this for politics. I can tell you politically, this is as much a negative as it is a positive. People are really upset. And I respect it. And I understand it. By the other token, though, this is hurting America. This should be about helping the United States. And if nothing passes, then this disaster we have now, that's what's going to stay in place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: I want to bring in Democratic Strategist Maria Cardona and Republican Strategist Ana Navarro to talk about this. And if I could take a page from what Dana said to the senator. Oh, come on, really? It is politics. It's political, right? Come on. How can you separate the two? Ana, I'll start with you.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, listen, I think Marco Rubio, and I know him very well, this is an issue that was very important to him that he really wanted to put political capital into. And he's been doing it. He's been making a huge difference in this debate this time around, because he's got bona fides with the conservative base that, frankly, nobody else in that group does. And he's been able to use that to get a more receptive hearing from some of the crowds that were very anti-immigration bill a few years ago.

So, I think Marco's doing it for the right reasons and he is right because, you know, I live in Florida. I live in his state. I can tell you he is getting a lot of flak from the left and from the right. He seems to be getting hit by both sides every day for one thing or another. So, if he's doing it for getting credit, I am not sure this is the best thing he could have done. If he is doing it to solve the issue, this is the best thing he needs to do.

MALVEAUX: So, Maria, let's talk about this because obviously President Bush -- I mean this is something that he tried to do. He couldn't get his own party on board and now -- what would make it any easier or anymore likely that you have a democratic president like President Obama who would be able to make this through both -- through congress, though both chambers.

MARIA CARDOVA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: How about the November election? When 70%, 71% of Latinos actually voted for President Obama. And, you know, this is -- it isn't purely political, Suzanne, but politics has absolutely a lot to do with this. It is the right policy. We do need to get this done. There's no question about that. This is not just good for Latinos.

This is not just good for immigrants. This is good for America. The CBO report that came out this week I think is the biggest piece of news that where it says that comprehensive immigration reform will boost our economic security reducing the deficit by $1 trillion over the next two decades. $700 billion in additional wealth and housing will be injected by this bill.

So, there is no question that this is the right thing to do. But politically, Marco Rubio knows if he has any aspirations to reach the White House, and he will tell everybody that that's not what he's thinking right now, but if at any point in the future he wants to do this, he knows that this is something that this party has to do, not just for his aspirations, but if the republican party ever wants to get to the White House again.

MALVEAUX: All right. Ana, let me bring you in here because obviously -- you know, this is something where you've got a large majority of Americans think border security should be the top priority on immigration reform. The latest polls actually do bear that out. They show that. So, Speaker Boehner, the House, how do you get them on board?

NAVARRO: I think that what's happening today, I think two things happened this week. One was the CBO report that Maria just mentioned, which is very good news for the house because there are a lot of fiscal conservatives. And, now there's 175 billion reasons to vote for immigration reform according to what the congressional budget office scored this bill as.

But, second, this amendment that's going to be announced later today, that's going to be introduced later today, we hope -- the hope there is that it brings about a broad support for the bill, that it brings on 10, 12, 15 republicans so that then there is huge momentum going out into the house.

If you get this bill passed -- if the senate's able to pass this bill with 68, 70, 72 votes, that's huge momentum going into the next chamber. And, I think there is plenty of adults in the room in the house of representatives who are going to find a way to thread the needle.

MALVEAUX: All right. There are adults here. Rare that we are all -- you two in agreement here. But, Ana, Maria, good to see you as always. We'll see how this all kind of shape out in the next hour or so. How many adults are in the room.

NAVARRO: Thank you Suzanne. Good to see you Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Thank you.

CARDOVA: Thank you. MALVEAUX: Coming up, a Christian group that spent decades trying to convert gays to straight. Well, now saying it's sorry and closing its doors as well. Why Exodus International has now had a change of position.

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MALVEAUX: A group that spent almost 40 years trying to make gay Christians straight is shutting down. And, its leader is now apologizing. Exodus International's President Alan Chambers issued this statement saying, "I am sorry for the pain and hurt that many of you have experienced."

He went onto say, "I am sorry some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt when your attractions didn't change." I want to bring in Nick Valencia and Eric Maripodi to break this down for us. So, Nick, first of all, what is the deal with this guy? Why is he completely saying, "Look, this doesn't work. I don't believe in this anymore?"

NICK VALENCIA, CNN ASSIGNMENT EDITOR: It seems like an aboutface, doesn't it? It's more of a rebranding than anything else. They are still going to have their same members, still the same board of directors. But, what he says, Suzanne, is he's trying to appeal to a new generation of Christians. The philosophies have evolved, though some critics have said this is a very half-hearted apology that they are speaking out of both sides with their mouth.

On one side, they are saying. On one side, they are saying, "We are sorry for the undue judgment that we have been giving you for the past almost four decades." They have been around for 37 years. On the other side, he is saying, "We're not apologizing for our strict stance on the scriptures" and the scriptures are clear that they say marriage is between a man and woman.

And, he's not apologizing for that, but he is saying, you know, "Sorry we caused you harm. I meant no ill intent. This is not malicious at all. But, also, coincidentally and very curiously, he himself at one time a self-identified gay man and now he is married. He has kids.

He says it is very ironic and he addresses that in his mea culpa to his members that he was once a target and sort of a victim of the stance on LGBT by the church and also having to apologize for the that very same stance.

MALVEAUX: And, why does he think an apology is good enough?

VALENCIA: Well, they are again trying to appeal the new generation of Christians and they are going to rebrand themselves under reduced fear. They say this ministry -- this new ministry that they are set to launch will be more open. There will be more welcoming. And, they won't be so -- such a hard stance, hard line on their stance on homosexuality.

MALVEAUX: And, Eric, I want to bring you to the conversation. Because, obviously, you cover religion and you cover faith in deep detail here. Is this a trend? Do we think this is something that more groups are going to do? I mean, kind of get rid of this conversion therapy. This so-called conversion therapy that they say?

ERIC MARRAPODI, CNN BELIEF BLOG CO-EDITOR: Yes. Absolutely, Suzanne. Conversion therapy with evangelicals is very much out of vogue right now. You saw even Exodus themselves disavow the practice a few years ago and stop doing it. And, so what we see is groups like exodus are much less part of the mainstream within evangelical Christianity.

And, the big issue here is there has been a C-change and I would say the last five to ten years with the issue of sexual orientation. For years, we heard Christians say that sexual orientation was a chose. People chose to be gay. That is language you do not hear anymore. And, it's more or less disavowed.

And, now they say that orientation is something you're born with and it's something your behavior is the issue. And, what you heard Nick saying earlier is this, you're not going to see groups like exodus change their position on what they would call the biblical view of sexuality, that sex should be reserved for a married man and woman.

Now, if that's your stance, that's fine. But, that leaves little wiggle room for other issues, most importantly homosexuality. So, what folks were telling me today is you will still see this notion that Christians who are gay ought to be celibate and abstain from sex just like single folks who are Christians and our straight should abstain from sex before marriage.

So, that's a tough line in one that LGBT activists don't like to hear very much. But, groups like this, conversion therapy groups very much out of vogue right now with Christianity in the United States.

MALVEAUX: I want to ask you the same question that I asked Nick here, which is -- The people you talk to, do they think this apology is good enough?

MARRAPODI: The one thing from folks who I was talking to today expressed to me was somewhat of confusion. If this isn't what exodus is going to be doing, what are they going to do? And, when they got out of the conversion therapy business that was the same question.

So, what are they going to be all about. And, like Nick said, this rebranding. I don't know that it's going to get the job done for people who were so hurt by the church in the past and so hurt by this group in the past. We will have to wait and see to hear what they think.

But, for right now, it sounds like a lot of Christians that I have been talking to today are fine with this and happy that exodus is sort of continuing to disappear from the mainstream.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you very much. We're going to continue to keep our eye on this story. Nick and Eric, thanks as always. Appreciate it. Good conversation.

The daughter of former Yankees manager Joe Torre makes a nice catch. It's sweet. She was in the right place at the right time, caught a child falling from a building. Going to hear it from her, up next.

Plus, the Boston Marathon bombing two months ago, well, one victim who lost her leg. She is now moving forward with force. She's determined to run again. We are going to talk with her, coming up.

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