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Zimmerman Juror Speaks Out

Aired July 16, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In just moments, you will hear the interview from the first juror to come forward in the George Zimmerman trial. And let me tell you, she gets candid. She sat down with CNN's Anderson Cooper exclusively, talked about how she and five other women reached the verdict late Saturday night. Her revelations may surprise you.

Meantime, what does the future hold for George Zimmerman? Well, that might come down to one man, Eric Holder, who just reaffirmed that the Department of Justice is resuming an investigation into the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin. He's set to speak in just minutes from now at the NAACP's annual convention. That civil rights group has almost a million signatures now on this online petition which insists that George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin and that there are grounds for civil rights charges.

Other news now, Edward Snowden has reportedly asked Russia for temporary asylum as he seeks a way to settle in with one of the Latin American countries known for opposing Washington. The leaker of national security secrets voided an earlier plea for asylum after Russian President Vladimir Putin said he'd have to stop harming America. One of his contacts says Snowden is still sitting on secrets that would damage the U.S. government if they are released.

A North Korean freighter has caused a major to-do in the Panama Canal. Have you heard about this? Authorities say the crew turned violent during this drug inspection. The captain had a heart attack, tried to commit suicide and then buried amid sacks of sugar, authorities found undeclared weapons, possibly missiles, which North Korea, by the way, is barred from buying under U.N. sanctions. That ship was heading to North Korea from Cuba.

And now to that CNN exclusive that answers what the nation has been asking. What were those six jurors thinking when they found George Zimmerman not guilty?

Juror B-37 spoke to CNN's Anderson Cooper in shadow. We're following her wishes, keeping her identity a secret, the only question she left unanswered in her interview.

For the next hour, she explains the deliberations that ultimately left her and the other five women, the other five jurors in tears. Here's Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: When you first sat down on the jury, when you first gathered together, what was it like? Did you know how big --

(CROSSTALK)

JUROR B-37: It was unreal. It was unreal. It was like something that -- why would they want to pick me? You know? Why would I be picked over all these hundreds of people that they interviewed?

COOPER: And when the trial started, what was the first day like? There were the opening statements. Don West told a joke. What did you think of that?

JUROR B-37: The joke was horrible. I just -- nobody got it. I didn't get it until later and then I thought about it and I'm like I guess that could have been funny, but not in the context he told it.

COOPER: Going into the trial, did you have an idea in your mind about what happened?

JUROR B-37: No, because I hadn't followed the trial at all. I mean, I had heard bits and pieces of what had happened and the names that were involved, but not any details.

COOPER: So take me back, if you can, to that first day, the opening statements. What do you remember about them? What stood out to you?

JUROR B-37: Not a whole lot because it seems like it's been years ago that it happened.

COOPER: Really?

JUROR B-37: It does. It seems like it's been a very long time that we were there.

COOPER: Was there a particular witness that stands out to you? Who did you find to be the most credible?

JUROR B-37: The doctor and -- I don't know his name.

COOPER: The doctor the defense called?

JUROR B-37: Yes, yes.

COOPER: What about him?

JUROR B-37: I thought he was awe-inspiring, the experiences that he had had over in the war, and I just never thought of anybody that could recognize somebody's voice yelling in like a terrible terror voice when he was just previously a half-hour ago playing cards with him.

COOPER: This was the witness that -- the friend of George Zimmerman's who had had military experience?

JUROR B-37: No, this was the defense --

COOPER: The defense medical examiner?

JUROR B-37: Yes.

COOPER: What was it like day by day, just being on that jury?

JUROR B-37: Day by day was interesting. There were more interesting things than others. When they got into the evidence, it was a lot more interesting than just testimony. Some of the witnesses -- some of the witnesses were good, some of them not so good.

COOPER: Did you feel -- a lot of analysts who were watching the trial felt that the defense attorneys, Mark O'Mara, Don West, were able to turn prosecution witnesses to their advantage, Chris Serino, for instance, the lead investigators. Did he make an impression on you?

JUROR B-37: Chris Serino did. He -- but to me he just was doing his job. He was doing his job the way he was doing his job and he was going to tell the truth regardless of who asked him the questions.

COOPER: So you found him to be credible?

JUROR B-37: I did. Very credible.

COOPER: So when he testified that he found George Zimmerman to be more or less overall truthful, did that make an impression on you?

JUROR B-37: It did. It did. It made a big impression on me.

COOPER: Why?

JUROR B-37: Because he deals with this all the time. He deals with, you know, murder, robberies. He's in it all the time. And I think he has a knack to pick out who's lying and who's not lying.

COOPER: The prosecution started off by saying that George Zimmerman was on top in the struggle. And then later on, they seemed to concede, well, perhaps Trayvon Martin was on top, but maybe was pulling away. Do you feel the prosecution really had a firm idea of what actually happened?

JUROR B-37: I think they wanted to happen what they wanted to happen, to go to their side, for the prosecution, the state.

There was a lot -- the witnesses that the defense had on, plus some of the prosecution witnesses, there was no doubt that they had seen what had happened. Some of it was taped so they couldn't refute any of that.

COOPER: What was on the 911 tapes?

JUROR B-37: Mm-hmm, the 911 tapes and John Good calling and all of that.

COOPER: How significant were those 911 tapes to you? JUROR B-37: The Lauer tape was the most significant because it went through before the struggle, during the struggle, the gunshot and then after.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Coming up next: what juror B-37 told Anderson about the voice heard on that 911 call, also her thoughts about the testimony of Trayvon Martin's friend Rachel Jeantel next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It was that one 911 call that took center stage in the George Zimmerman trial.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Does he look hurt?

JUROR B-37: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on.

(CROSSTALK)

JUROR B-37: They're sending --

911 OPERATOR: Do you think he's yelling help?

JUROR B-37: Yes.

911 OPERATOR: All right. What is your --

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Who was that voice heard crying for help? Was it George Zimmerman? Was it Trayvon Martin? Juror B-37 didn't hesitate when she answered. Here again is CNN's Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: You had the parents of Trayvon Martin testifying. You had the family of George Zimmerman, friends of George Zimmerman testifying about whose voice it was in the 911 call. Whose voice do you think it was in the 911 call?

JUROR B-37: I think it was George Zimmerman's.

COOPER: Did everybody on the jury agree with that?

JUROR B-37: All but probably one.

COOPER: And what made you think it was George Zimmerman's voice?

JUROR B-37: Because of the evidence that he was the one that had gotten beaten. COOPER: So, you think because he was the one who had had cuts, had abrasions, he was the one getting hit, he was the one calling for help?

JUROR B-37: Well, because the witnesses of -- John Good saw Trayvon on top of George, not necessarily hitting him because it was so dark, he couldn't see, but he saw blows down toward George. And he could tell that it was George Zimmerman on the bottom. He didn't know who it was, but he knew what they were wearing.

COOPER: The one -- the juror who didn't think it was George Zimmerman's voice, who thought it was Trayvon Martin voice on that call, do you know why they felt that way?

JUROR B-37: She didn't think it was Trayvon's. She just said it could have been Trayvon's.

COOPER: So she wasn't even sure?

JUROR B-37: No. She wanted to give everybody an absolute out of being guilty.

COOPER: But you were sure it was George Zimmerman's voice?

JUROR B-37: I was sure it was George Zimmerman.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And everybody else on the jury was, except for that one person?

JUROR B-37: I think so. I think they were.

I don't think there was a doubt that everybody else thought it was George's voice.

COOPER: I want to ask you a bunch -- I want to ask you about some of the different witnesses. Rachel Jeantel, the woman who was on the phone with Trayvon Martin at the start of the incident, what did you make of her testimony?

JUROR B-37: I didn't think it was very credible, but I felt very sorry for her. She didn't ask to be in this place. She didn't ask -- she wanted to go. She wasn't to leave. She didn't want to be any part of this jury. I think she felt inadequate toward everyone because of her education and her communication skills. I just felt sadness for her.

COOPER: You felt like, what, she was in over her head?

JUROR B-37: Well, not over her head. She just didn't want to be there and she was embarrassed by being there because of her education and her communication skills, that she just wasn't a good witness.

COOPER: Did you find it hard at times to understand what she was saving? JUROR B-37: A lot of the times, because a lot of the times, she was using phrases I had never heard before and what they meant.

COOPER: So that term "creepy-ass cracker" that Rachel Jeantel said Trayvon had used, that you're saying that's simply how Trayvon and Rachel talked to each other?

JUROR B-37: Sure. That's the way they talk.

COOPER: And did you see that as a negative statement or a racial statement, as the defense suggested?

JUROR B-37: I don't think it's really racial. I think it's just everyday life, the type of life that they live and how they're living and the environment that they're living in.

COOPER: So you didn't find her credible as a witness?

JUROR B-37: No.

COOPER: So did you find her testimony important in terms of what she actually said?

JUROR B-37: Well, I think the most important thing is the time that she was on the phone with Trayvon. So you basically, hopefully, if she heard anything, she would say she did, but the time coincides with George's statements and testimony of time limits and what had happened during that time.

COOPER: Explain that.

JUROR B-37: Well, because there was -- George was on the 911 call while she was on the call with Trayvon and the times coincide, and I think there was two minutes between when George hung up from his 911 call to the time Trayvon and Rachel had hung up.

So really nothing could have happened because the 911 call would have heard the nonemergency call that George had called, heard something happening before that.

COOPER: She said at one point that she heard the sound the wet grass. Did that seem believable to you?

JUROR B-37: Well, everything was wet at that point. It was pouring down rain.

COOPER: What did you think about George Zimmerman?

JUROR B-37: I think George Zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place, but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods and wanting to catch these people so badly that he went above and beyond what he really should have done. But I think his heart was in the right place. It just went terribly wrong.

COOPER: Do you think he's guilty of something? JUROR B-37: I think he's guilty of not using good judgment. When he was in the car and he called 911, he shouldn't have gotten out of that car.

But the 911 operator also, when he was talking to him, kind of egged him on. I don't know if it's their policy to tell them what to do, not to get out of their car, to stay in their car. But I think he should have said, stay in your car, not, can you see where he's gone?

COOPER: Do you feel George Zimmerman should have been carrying a gun?

JUROR B-37: I think he has every right to carry a gun. I think it's everybody's right to carry a gun, as long as they use it the way it's supposed to be used and be responsible in using it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Coming up next: her thoughts on the infamous reenactment video and the jury's reaction to Zimmerman and Martin's parents taking the stand.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let me take you back to this exclusive interview, juror B- 37, one of the six women who ultimately determined Saturday night that George Zimmerman was not guilty of murder or manslaughter when he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin February of 2012.

She talked to Anderson Cooper and told him who she thinks started the fight that rainy evening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: George Zimmerman obviously did not testify, but his testimony essentially was brought into the trial through those videotapes, a number of videotapes that he walked police through a reenactment of what he said happened. How important were those videotapes to you?

JUROR B-37: I don't really know, because I mean, watching the tapes, there's always something in the back saying, is it right? Is it consistent?

But with all the evidence of the phone calls, and all the witnesses that he saw, I think George was pretty consistent and told the truth, basically. I'm sure there were some fabrications, enhancements, but I think pretty much it happened the way George said it happened.

COOPER: When George Zimmerman said that Trayvon Marten reached for his gun, there was no DNA evidence. The defense said, well, had testimony in, well, it could have gotten washed off in the rain or the like. Do you believe that Trayvon Martin reached for George Zimmerman's gun?

JUROR B-37: I think he might have. I think George probably thought that he did, because George was the one who knew that George was carrying a gun. And he was aware of that. COOPER: You can't say for sure whether or not Trayvon Martin knew that George Zimmerman was carrying a gun?

JUROR B-37: No.

COOPER: So you can't say for sure whether or not Trayvon Martin reached for that gun?

JUROR B-37: Right. But that doesn't make it right. I mean, it doesn't make it -- there's not a right or a wrong. Even if he did reach for the gun, it doesn't make any difference.

COOPER: How so?

JUROR B-37: Well, because George had a right to protect himself at that point.

COOPER: So you believe that George Zimmerman really felt his life was in danger?

JUROR B-37: I do. I really do.

COOPER: Do you think Trayvon Martin threw the first punch?

JUROR B-37: I think he did.

COOPER: What makes you think that?

JUROR B-37: Because of the evidence of on the T., on the sidewalk, where George says he was punched, there was evidence of his flashlight and keys there, and then a little bit further down, there was a flashlight that he was carrying. And I think that's where Trayvon hit him.

COOPER: So you think, based on the testimony you heard, you believe that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor?

JUROR B-37: I think the roles changed. I think, I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there. But Trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him and get the one- over, up on him, or something. And I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him.

COOPER: Do you feel like you know for sure what happened in the altercation? And did the other jurors feel for sure that they knew what happened?

JUROR B-37: Nobody knew exactly what happened. I mean, it started at one point and ended on another point. Witnesses said they heard left to right movement. Other witnesses said they heard right to left movement. But the credible witnesses said they heard left to right movement. So whatever happened, I think the punch came, and then they ended up in front of the -- in back of the house. I don't think anybody knows.

COOPER: When the defense in their closing argument played that animation of what they believe happened, did you find that credible?

JUROR B-37: I found it credible. I did.

COOPER: What did you think of the testimony of Trayvon Martin's mother and father? Did you find them credible?

JUROR B-37: I think they said anything a mother and a father would say. Just like George Zimmerman's mom and father. I think -- they're your kids. You want to believe that they're innocent and that was their voice. Because hearing that voice would make it credible that they were the victim, not the aggressor.

COOPER: So in a way, both sets of parents kind of canceled each other out in your mind?

JUROR B-37: They did, definitely. Because if I was a mother, I would want to believe so hard that it was not my son that did that, or was responsible for any of that, that I would convince myself probably that it was his voice.

COOPER: How critical, though, was it for you in your mind to have an idea of whose voice it was yelling for help? How important was that yell for help?

JUROR B-37: I think it was pretty important. Because it was a long cry and scream for help, that whoever was calling for help was in fear of their life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Coming up next, they discuss the issue of race surrounding this trial. Did the jury think it played a role? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There is a group in America that believes George Zimmerman targeted Trayvon Martin because Martin was black, but race turned out to carry much less weight in the jury room than perhaps some folks had thought.

Here again is Anderson Cooper's interview exclusive with juror B-37.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: The prosecution didn't use the word racial profiling during the case. They used the word profiling. And that was something that was worked out between the judge and the lawyers when the jury wasn't in the room.

JUROR B-37: Right.

COOPER: Do you feel that George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin? Do you think race played a role in his decision, his view of Trayvon Martin as suspicious?

JUROR B-37: I don't think he did. I think just circumstances caused George to think that he might be a robber, or trying to do something bad in the neighborhood because of all that had gone on previously. There were an unbelievable number of robberies in the neighborhood.

COOPER: So you don't believe race played a role in this case?

JUROR B-37: I don't think it did. I think if there was another person, Spanish, white, Asian, if they came in the same situation where Trayvon was, I think George would have reacted the exact same way.

COOPER: Why do you think George Zimmerman found Trayvon Martin suspicious then?

JUROR B-37: Because he was cutting through the back, it was raining. He said he was looking in houses as he was walking down the road. Kind of just not having a purpose to where he was going. He was stopping and starting.

But, I mean, that's George's rendition of it, but I think the situation where Trayvon got into him being late at night, dark at night, raining, and anybody would think anybody walking down the road stopping and turning and looking, if that's exactly what happened, is suspicious. And George said that he didn't recognize who he was.

COOPER: Well, was that a common belief on the jury that race was not -- that race did not play a role in this?

JUROR B-37: I think all of us thought that race did not play a role.

COOPER: So nobody thought race played a role?

JUROR B-37: I don't think so.

COOPER: None of the jurors?

JUROR B-37: I can't speak for them. I'm not their voice --

COOPER: That wasn't part of the discussion in the jury room?

JUROR B-37: No, no, we never had that discussion.

COOPER: It didn't come up, the question of, did George Zimmerman profile Trayvon Martin because he was African-American?

JUROR B-37: No, I think he just profiled him because he was the neighborhood watch, and he profiled anyone who came in acting strange. I think it was just circumstances happened that he saw Trayvon at the exact time that he thought he was suspicious.

COOPER: The prosecution tried to paint George Zimmerman as a wannabe cop, overeager. Did you buy that?

JUROR B-37: I think he's overeager to help people.