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Dr. Drew
What`s Happened to Amanda Bynes?
Aired July 29, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Amanda Bynes remains on lockdown. The judge extends a psychiatric hold after her parents reveal why they were frightened for her life.
A mother shot repeatedly. Her 2-year-old daughter left alone at the scene of the crime. What the nanny saw before the murder.
And if you made up your mind about Andrea Sneiderman, my exclusive guest might make you think again.
Let`s get started.
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PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host this week is Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
Coming up, police say a husband killed his wife while their baby daughter was in the home. The family nanny is here to give us her thoughts exclusively.
Plus, I`ve got another exclusive interview with a good friend of Andrea Sneiderman, who just has spoken to her over the weekend, and you may be surprised by what she`s got to say about Andrea.
But first, Samantha, we`re going to talk about Amanda Bynes. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANCE BASS, XM SIRIUS RADIO HOST: We all know Amanda Bynes as, you know, this lovable girl that was the next Lucille Ball.
AMANDA BYNES, ACTRESS: I don`t think I am interesting enough to be sort of splashed around.
PINSKY: This is the age, 18 to 22, 18 to 25, when major mental illness strikes.
BYNES: The club scene and drinking doesn`t appeal to me, so it`s actually easier for me not to do it. Birds of a feather flock together and I definitely don`t fly with that crowd.
PINSKY: People always think they`re looking at substance abuse because that`s so common these days.
BYNES: I don`t like drinking and a lot of kids do. What can I say? Maybe one day I`ll become a big drunkard and you`ll have tons of talk about.
I`m very close to my parents and I don`t want to do anything that I would have sort of a hard time telling my parents.
I appreciate that people -- you know, anything that anyone does for me, maybe it`s because I have parents who worked really hard to earn money. My dad used to always teach me the value of a dollar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The onset of mental illness causes the disruption in these close family relationships. We have to remember this isn`t bad parents having bad relationships with their kids.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Very erratic. Erratic behavior. Look at this. This 27-year-old posted this disturbing video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Came back to Los Angeles. She has a home here. And where this incident took place, once she got home, or I would say near her home, she lit this fire and has now been hospitalized.
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST: Do you see yourself looking forward, being somehow involved in the world of stardom and celebrity for the rest of your life?
BYNES: I don`t know. I`ve got to tell you, I don`t know if I will be able to take it for the rest of my life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Starting off with the behavior bureau: Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist and HLN contributor. Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "30-Day Love Detox." Dr. John Sharp, psychiatrist, faculty at Harvard University and author of "The Emotional Calendar."
And a special appearance, we welcome, Candace Cameron Bure. Candace played DJ on "The Full House" program. She`s an actress, producer, author.
First up, Samantha, I want to go to you to give us a report on what is the latest from Amanda.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Well, Amanda Bynes` parents Richard and Lynn are deeply concerned for their daughter. We are in day three since they have filed to obtain conservatorship of Amanda. And since then, the hearing will be now August 9th, OK?
So, in that hearing, until then, in the interim, the judge is going to carefully examine the case. He said he`s going to cross all his T`s, he`s going to dot all his I`s. He`s also going to hear from Amanda because we do know that her involuntary 70-hour hold is now extended for two weeks.
PINSKY: Two-week hold. Now, so, this shows how severely mentally ill she is. She`s gone from a three-day hold where now she has relinquished all of her civil liberties. She`s being held for 14 days. I`m of an opinion that the key to saving Amanda maybe conservatorship or parents again applied for probate conservatorship when is different from a usual conservatorship we apply for. It suggests she is complying to some extent.
Again, a conservatorship is where somebody is able to get a professional or family member to step in and take over financial affairs of that individual. Sometimes require them to get treatment. Sometimes take over the well-being of their body and their care on a daily basis.
Now, in their bid for conservatorship, Amanda`s parents itemized several bizarre behaviors.
Samantha, I know you`ve heard a lot about this.
And these are symptomatic of major mental illness. I suspect perhaps mania, Dr. Sharp, we`ll have you comment on that in a second. She`s homeless, she`s paranoid, seemed to be covering smoke alarms with towels and taping windows and covering dashboards and whatnot. Two hit-and-run accidents, including a drunk driving arrest suggest possibly a substance involvement here as well.
She arrived from L.A. to New York -- from New York to L.A. without any sort of notice. She says she cabbed here. She`s been uncharacteristically hostile with family members. She`s been excessively spending $1.2 million spent in just two months.
Now, as I said, you heard me saying in one of these tape pieces, these major mental illnesses like bipolar set in the late teens and early 20s, mid 20s. Dr. Sharp, do you agree this is probably major mental illness?
DR. JOHN SHARP, PSYCHIATRIST: Definitely I do agree it`s major mental illness and it could be bipolar, it could be schizophrenia, it could be some combination of the two. You know, lockdown is treatment. So, she is forced to be seen 24/7. She is forced to interact with people. There`s going to be a lot more data.
I think the judge was probably right to allow time to factor in so that we can really see what the diagnosis is and what the treatment needs are.
PINSKY: And also, Wendy, I imagine that she may reconstitute in treatment, so the conservatorship may ultimately be less defensible?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, she may reconstitute, but I think that part of the taking the two weeks time is to get any chemicals out of her system so we can see what the symptomatology might be separate and aside for how she`s been self-medicating. I mean, we don`t know for sure, but there have been allusions to some drug use and abuse, some marijuana use, potentially Adderall. There have been reports of all kinds of doctor bills, so she may have been doing the rounds, trying to get prescriptions and attempting to help herself along the way.
So we`ve got to get that out of her system, right, wouldn`t you agree, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Yes, oh, absolutely. It is substance with illness or separate from. It`s hard to tell what this is, because addiction can present any psychiatric symptom you can imagine. But this is a typical age when real significant mental age can develop. So, I`m suspicious it may not be substantive. We`ll see.
Candace, your co-star Jodie Sweetin had a major substance abuse problem -- meth, coke, alcohol. Did the rest of you see this coming?
CANDACE CAMERON BURE, ACTRESS & AUTHOR: We didn`t see it coming at all. It was quite a shock. I mean, I read it along in the newspapers, or in the tabloids with everyone else. You know, she stopped working at 13 years old. So at that point, I think some of the things that were hereditary that were genetically her makeup, we weren`t aware of those things. And she didn`t show us a clue at that time.
PINSKY: And, Candace, your thoughts on Amanda?
BURE: I mean, my heart as a mom, as an actress, as a woman, it just goes out to her, because clearly she`s a very talented girl. I can`t imagine that it`s not mental illness. I don`t think that being in the industry caused any of this.
But when you`re in the industry and you have access to everything and a lot of money, it just -- it exaggerates it and blows it up, and then everyone`s there to watch your decline and slide down.
PINSKY: Tiffanie, I agree 100 percent with Candace. I think the other issue we can all learn here. If you see these things coming, you need to get help early before it does spiral out of control. Would you agree?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I absolutely agree. The problem, Dr. Drew, is there`s such a stigma with mental illness in this country is a lot of people shy away, especially when you`ve got a child actress where they`ve been coddled for a lot of their lives and told that everything is right. You`re perfect. There`s nothing wrong with you.
It`s hard to see that person then reaching out and saying hey, I have a problem, I`m not doing well, I`m sad, I`m depressed. I feel worthless.
It`s really hard. It`s an interesting dichotomy that these kids, now grown-ups find themselves in.
PINSKY: You know, Tiffany -- Candace, I want to ask you. Tiffany brings up a really interesting point. Everyone around that child actor, she has been so great and so wonderful. They invested. They want to think of her that way, to think of her now as someone with an illness must be extra difficult.
BURE: Absolutely. And you have to think as a parent, did they ever see any signs or do they know their family history extensively. Could that have been a red flag at some point to think maybe this wouldn`t be a safe environment for my child to put them in if I know this is -- we have a history of this.
PINSKY: Another really interesting twist on this, that`s a very interesting point. If you know you have a family history of bipolar disorder, do you allow your child into this industry?
Next up -- thank you, panel. More on Amanda Bynes. And our exclusive interview with her old friend Lance Bass.
And later, you may think you know all about Andrea Sneiderman, but we have friends of hers here exclusively to tell us specifically their thoughts on the women they say they know better than the media does.
Back after this.
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BASS: The last time I saw her was probably in march. I was at a birthday party that she was at. A lot of her best friends had kind of moved on. They couldn`t really keep up with her. She was just doing really strange things.
Once a lot of her friends abandoned her, she isolated herself in New York City, and that`s where it really went south.
We did see little pieces of her changing from the sweet little Amanda we knew to almost becoming a little bit demanding on the set, which was so not her. To me it started unraveling when she did get a Twitter account and she was tweeting a lot about her boyfriends and men and that`s when we started seeing there was something going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The heartbreaking reality, the Amanda Bynes we see today far different from the little girl who starred in "The Amanda Show."
I want to show you something from the first season, 13 years ago, if you`re not familiar with where she came from, I think you`ll be startled. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We brought a surprise that will help you sleep, honey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Indeed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s rock-a-bye Ralph.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s rock-a-bye Ralph?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a doll, sweetie. >
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A doll that will help you sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
VOICE: I love you! Time to go sleepy!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aw, he`s so cute. Thanks, mom, dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nighty night, honey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: She was my daughter`s favorite program.
Candace, I wonder if you talked to your children about the Amanda then versus now and what they can learn from this.
BURE: I mean, I talk to them only because it`s so all over the news and it`s like mom, what happened? They didn`t grow up with her as much, but they see where she`s at now. And all their friends are talking about her.
And, you know, I can`t blame it on the business, but it just makes me parent on purpose, with purpose more and more and tell my kids not to do drugs, not to drink, not to -- to be very grounded and choose wisely who their friends are at the ages that they`re at. It just -- I want to do my best as a parent. And use her as an example.
PINSKY: And, Candace, would you have any resistance -- let`s say you found one of your children duct taping the vents in their room, fearful that somebody was trying to come in and get them. Would you have any resistance in getting that child to psychiatric care?
BURE: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
PINSKY: Dr. Sharp, do you have a reaction to that?
SHARP: I think that`s so important, Candace, because a lot of times people who are having an unfolding mental illness are self-medicating with drugs and alcohol. So she could be deteriorating, she could be unraveling, she could be getting detached and using drugs as a way not to feel that. So we can`t assume it`s drugs necessarily.
PINSKY: I agree.
SHARP: You`ve got to get a proper psych --
PINSKY: I agree. And, Wendy, it sort of bothers me that every time somebody behaves peculiar in the media, everyone wants to go to drugs. I`m an addictionologist, I`m ready to go there, but it`s not always that.
WALSH: Well, as you know, that most people who become substance abusers begin because they`re trying to self-medicate pain, emotional pain that they`re experiencing, psychiatric pain that they`re experiencing and then they sort of try -- they feel around the environment to try to get the cocktail of drugs that they`ll need to affect --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let me --
WALSH: Of course, it doesn`t work.
PINSKY: And let me sort of -- Tiffany, I`ll let you comment on this. I`m going to sort of refine this a little bit. In my role, it`s usually people who have trauma and feel horrible in their own skin, different, Tiffany, than somebody who`s developing a bipolar disorder and starts messing around with substances. That`s really the bipolar disorder is the problem.
HENRY: Right. And it usually is coming out of nowhere. If you`re talking about that age range, you spoke about it earlier, between 16 to 18 to 25-ish, that`s when a lot of stress is starting to come into their lives.
Maybe they`re at school, at college, maybe it`s the first time they`re on their own. Maybe it`s the first time they`ve ever had real responsibility in their lives. It takes a dramatic toll on someone that`s predisposed to a bipolar or schizophrenia or any type of mood or psychotic disorder.
And what has to happen for them is something multi-disciplinary. It can`t be just meds or it can`t be just therapy. It`s got to be a combination of a lot of different things -- psycho education, family talk therapy, medication management, support groups. And support groups specifically with other people with similar disorders. That`s so important.
BURE: Can I ask a question?
PINSKY: Who`s asking? Candace, go.
BURE: I`d like to just ask a question. What I want to know is how do you try to help a friend? If you`re not the parent, they are a legal adult. I faced that with Jodie. What do you do as a friend when someone doesn`t want to receive help?
PINSKY: Yes, it`s -- Dr. Sharp, I`ll go to you to answer this.
But first, I would say you`ve got to be ready to leave the relationship, in my experience. You use whichever leverage you have, which is other relationship, which is money, which is work, in notifying the employer, or the family, whatever you`ve got -- you`re often trying to save somebody`s life.
But, Dr. Sharp, my opinion is, you also have to be ready to leave that person because sometimes that is what gets through. And, by the way, don`t forget to use law enforcement, anything else you`ve got on your hands if this is a life-threatening problem.
Dr. Sharp?
SHARP: Yes, you`ve got to model a healthy decision. That can be an intervention. You can get friends together. That can be going to law enforcement. That can be walking away.
If I can just make one interesting point, I think. Schizophrenics` favorite drugs is amphetamines -- because that causes hallucination.
PINSKY: After tobacco.
SHARP: So, they`re trying to -- yes, after tobacco. So they`re trying to gain a sense of control over feeling out of control. So drug abuse in major mental illness is very interesting, very complicated.
PINSKY; Let`s finish this up by saying -- Tiffanie was mentioning all the stressors that come with being 18 to 22, trying to figure out what you are, what you`re going to do. But there`s something really about the brain development, is there not the case, that seems to have caused this to come out of those age groups.
SHARP: Absolutely. And we`re learning more and more about that now in terms of our science. It`s clearly a brain disease.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I have a question for you?
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Is she aware -- was she aware of her erratic behavior throughout all this? Because this is not the Amanda Bynes that her friends and family once knew.
PINSKY: It`s a great question. I think it dove tails on what Candace was asking. I`ll go to Wendy to help me without this. Which is that resistance to treatment, lack of insight, those are hallmarks of major mental illness and it`s a part of substance, too, but especially mental illness -- Wendy.
WENDY: And remember, when you`re having feelings of paranoia, you really believe them. And you believe that everyone else is completely wrong.
And I wanted to add one more thing, Dr. Drew, about these kinds of interventions that you try to do with adults. Remember, this is what happened to her, is that they did the things they were supposed to do and I really want to commend her parents because they`re doing everything right here.
But, you know, they did leave the relationship. And many of her friends did and she ended up alone in New York with $4 million of her own. So who could stop her? Does anyone know? Could anything have been done earlier when we, the world, saw on her Twitter account that she was starting to fall apart.
PINSKY: It`s so easy fort us to sit and talk about that. But when you look back in retrospect, it`s much easier to see it than if you`re a parent.
Not wanting to -- you know, we don`t want to think our kids are sick. I agree with you, these parents are doing exactly, exactly what they need to do, and it`s likely going to be -- it`s to benefit Amanda. Now, the judge may not grant them that conservatorship. If that happens, that will probably be because she is responding to treatment and participating, regaining her insight, and becoming the Amanda we all have come to love over the years.
Thank you, panel. If anyone out there has a question for the behavior bureau, tweet us at @drdrewhln #behaviorbureau.
Next up, a young mother shot her husband -- or was shot by her husband who`s charged with the murder. We will discuss whether alcohol and whether steroids may have been a factor. We`ll hear from one of his co-workers.
And later, Andrea Sneiderman`s friends join me exclusively. They say to set the record straight. You see what you think after this.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Tonight, 42-year-old Randy Maidens stands accused of pumping 10 bullets into his wife Rachel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He used two different kinds of guns, a handgun and a shotgun.
PINSKY: He allegedly kills his wife and leaves the body with his 2- year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two people kind of do that, evil and sick.
PINSKY: Look in their eyes. The white above their pupil, that is a manic thing that people get.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s wearing all black, a ski mask, a backpack that was cylinder shaped.
WALSH: This sort of paramilitary kind of behavior. This pumped up muscles. He`s a 42-year-old guy. Who know what is in his system?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, "What are you doing?" He said, "I live right there." And he pointed at the house where the murder later occurred.
JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: It must not be a coincidence that there seems to be so many spousal murders.
WALSH: So many women fall in love with love and miss all the red flags on love`s race course.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Samantha Schacher and psychologist Wendy Walsh, who we have just heard from.
Joining us, Sirius XM radio host and attorney Jenny Hutt, attorney Mark Eiglarsh from speaktomark.com.
Where have you been, Mark? A year away. Thank you for sending your tie --
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Vacationing, I needed it, brother.
PINSKY: Thank you for sending the tie ahead of you.
And, Karen Mills-Francis, TV`s Judge Karen joins us.
Randy Maidens pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder and is free after posting $750,000 bail. Apparently down from something like $2.5 million.
Show of hands -- anybody troubled that this guy is walking the streets? Judge Karen, does this guy bother you?
KAREN MILLS FRANCIS, JUDGE KAREN: What I`m troubled about is that maybe they don`t really have a case. I mean, he started out with a $2.5 million bond for a first-degree murder case. Now, it`s down to $750,000, the judge is letting him live in the house, he doesn`t have a bracelet on his ankle, he`s free to go where he really wants to go.
Maybe there is no case. All I heard is that there`s a note that`s an apology and he had $87,000 in his car. Hey, that could just be circumstantial.
PINSKY: Mark, you shook your head no.
After, Mark, I`ve got to go to our reporter who`s going to give us the update. But go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Well, it doesn`t mean that there`s not necessarily a case. It means that a judge analyzed whether he`s a danger to the community and a risk of flight and found that $750,000, a substantial bond, was appropriate enough for him to then just return to court. It`s not punitive.
PINSKY: All right. Richel Albright is on a phone with us right now. She`s a reporter for Brentwood home page and has been covering the shooting death of Dr. Rachel Maidens.
Richel, you`ve been in touch with several of Randy Maidens` former co- workers. What have they told you?
RICHEL ALBRIGHT, REPORTER (via telephone): Well, thanks for having me on, first of all.
But they told me just basically that previously, he had gotten sober, he had a drinking problem. I`m not sure how long he was sober for. But this spiral kind of started in February. He got a DUI on February 23rd and then he went to a conference -- a work conference in Orlando where he got into an altercation, he was intoxicated, and was screaming, "I just want to kill my wife" repeatedly.
And from there, he was -- a month later is when the murder happened. It was all within three months. It was pretty quickly.
PINSKY: Thank you, Richel.
Mark, all of a sudden you`re cringing a little bit here. I`ll add in to the alcohol -- let`s add the fact that he looked like he`s all pumped up maybe on steroids, it make people pretty crazy, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Listen, it`s not the steroids that concerns me. Whenever I have a client hypothetically who`s yelling "I want to kill my wife," those are not good facts. We can have a debate all night long. Those are bad facts.
PINSKY: Jenny, you think Mark`s right about that?
HUTT: A, I think mark`s right about that. B, I think the reason he`s allowed to be on the street is because the only person he was a danger to was his life, who was allegedly killed.
PINSKY: That`s very sad.
We have some additional detail. Randy Maidens had no previous criminal history and there were no previous reports of domestic violence.
Judge Karen, does that surprise you? At the crime, investigators found an apology notice expressing regret.
What do you think?
MILLS FRANCIS: Well, we haven`t seen any real evidence, so we`re just speculating here.
You know, there are a lot of times that people commit crimes for the first time in their life when they`re later on in life. So he had a drinking problem, apparently. He had a DUI. I understand that he embarrassed his wife in front of the neighbors by crashing into somebody`s car. There might have been trouble in the marriage.
We never know what goes on in somebody`s bedroom. We have his co- worker saying oh, my God, he was such a nice guy. A lot of nice guys kill their wives.
PINSKY: Wendy, are you sniffing here at some substance stuff like I am?
WALSH: Yes, especially when I`m hearing the pumped up muscles and he`s 42 years old and then a DUI. That`s an interesting mix, huh, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: That steroid, potentially for steroids. And then add some alcohol. That`s going to add some aggression.
PINSKY: But, Mark, the law doesn`t really look at this stuff. Do you think they`re going to be able to prove -- isn`t that what the law needs to do? Prove that he did something? Mark?
EIGLARSH: Well, of course. They need to be able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. As Judge Karen alluded to earlier, we don`t know what the evidence is really. We just hear things.
And secondly, I`m glad that we don`t know all of the evidence. This isn`t like the birth of a royal child. This is a homicide investigation. As much as I`d love facts so we can talk about it at night, it`s a homicide investigation. Keep it close to the vest. I like what they`re doing.
PINSKY: Go, Sam.
SCHACHER: Mark, how damning a piece of evidence is this letter of admittance saying he regrets killing his wife?
MILLS-FRANCIS: That`s not what the letter says. That`s not what we heard --
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Is that what it says?
MILLS-FRANCIS: We don`t know the content of the letter.
SCHACHER: The two police that were on stand and the previous bond reduction hearing stated that the letter claimed that he regrets killing his wife. If I remember and read correctly earlier today.
PINSKY: Well, let me ask -- we got a reporter. Richel, is that -- A, is that accurate, and B, are people in the community concerned about this guy wandering around amongst them?
ALBRIGHT: Well, he does have a GPS locator on him. He`s only permitted to be in Wellington and Davidson Counties. But he did have kind of -- he expressed that he was sorry for what he had done and they said it seems like they thought it was a suicide note.
PINSKY: A suicide note, not a homicide note.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Why haven`t they introduced that note in any of these hearings? Why do we have to hear what the note said? Why can`t we just read the note?
SCHACHER: Right.
ALBRIGHT: I don`t know.
PINSKY: Richel, you don`t know.
Mark, any speculation?
ALBRIGHT: I don`t know because I haven`t done it.
EIGLARSH: Well, first of all, we have no right to know. You know, Judge Karen has a mind that wants to know, but it`s not for us to know.
MILLS: You want to know, too.
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: --maybe because it wouldn`t help their case at this point.
MILLS: That`s what I`m thinking.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: The kid saying daddy left, daddy left.
MILLS: Right. But a note that says "I`m sorry, I killed my wife," we would have seen it by now.
PINSKY: Interesting.
Well, next up, I`ve got the nanny for the Maidens. That`s the couple. The couple`s baby daughter. She actually was the nanny of this couple`s baby daughter. She saw a lot, and she`s here to tell us about it. She was there obviously before things started unraveling. She has some interesting insights.
And later, Andrea Sneiderman has been called a black widow who pulled the trigger, actually, was the one that pulled the trigger in her husband`s murder. Her friends are here exclusively to tell you a different story. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw a man running across the force line, and I thought that was very strange. So, I went outside door and I tracked him. And he was wearing all black, including a ski mask and a backpack that was cylinder shaped and I decided to confront him. So, I walked over to about 30 feet from him and I said, "what are you doing?" and he was startled.
And I said, "what are you doing." And he said, "I live right there." And he pointed at the house where the murder later occurred. So, I finally said to him, "I recognize your dogs," but it`s pretty creepy looking out your back window and see a man running through the forest."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Indeed. Welcome back. I`m back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher. Also Wendy Walsh, Jenny Hutt, Mark Eiglarsh, and Judge Karen Mills Francis. Jenny, did you have any sort of feeling about listening to that neighbor story?
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes. It sounded freaking weird, Dr. Drew.
(LAUGHTER)
HUTT: This is not how usual neighbors behave. I mean, come on. Something is not right with this picture beyond --
EIGLARSH: Jenny --
HUTT: Go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Jenny, you wear black. You have dogs.
(LAUGHTER)
EIGLARSH: What`s so problematic with that?
HUTT: She doesn`t look paramilitary.
WALSH: I don`t think she wears a ski mask, Mark.
HUTT: Exactly.
PINSKY: Mark, did that question -- was that you or your tie that asked that question? I`m not sure.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Joining us, Eryn Moses, she was a nanny for the Maidens` baby daughter. Eryn, you were also Rachel Maidens` patient, I understand. Can you please tell us about her?
VOICE OF ERYN MOSES, FORMER BABYSITTER: She was absolutely amazing. She`s probably one of the funniest people I`ve ever met in my entire life. She was just so full of joy. And like, you could tell that she absolutely loved what she was doing.
PINSKY: And how about Randy? I understand, we would keep hearing he spent a lot of time at the gym. Did you see anything peculiar about him?
MOSES: No, I never saw anything. I mean, I was 17 in somebody else`s house watching their baby while they were there. So, it was a little awkward, but I never really saw anything that would stand out to me. Looking back now, sometimes, he would come out of the room being really, really friendly and then sometimes he wouldn`t.
But I mean, I was never qualified to see if anything was up with that. I was just kind of trying to sit there and watch his kid.
PINSKY: So, Eryn, you mean, he was irritable at times, is that what you mean?
MOSES: Yes. I just figured it was from work or something. I never had anything stand out.
PINSKY: Kind of peculiar, Wendy, for somebody to become irritable towards a 17-year-old babysitter. I mean, that`s somebody whose irritability is spilling out a bit. Wouldn`t you agree?
WALSH: Well, yes and no. You know, when you do have employees working in the home, sometimes, they are privy to our private personalities. And that we don`t always put on only our public personalities in our home. I understand what you`re saying. Certainly, Dr. Drew, I know you would be very conscious of the feelings of a 17-year- old babysitter in your home.
PINSKY: I hope so.
WALSH: But you know, people sometimes start to forget and think of them as a family member, and you know that rule. We save the most sadistic parts of our personality for those we love the most. And that`s what sometimes happens in our intimate relationships.
EIGLARSH: Drew, here`s the million-dollar question. We`ve covered this now for a couple of segments. The million-dollar question is while they don`t have to prove motive, what`s the motive here? Why did he off his wife allegedly? Why?
PINSKY: Karen, you have a theory?
MILLS: No, because I think the man may be innocent. I mean, we`re talking about how he acted with a babysitter? I mean, come on, you`ve had somebody work in your house and got irritated. I mean, it happens. I have not seen the evidence here. I know that he`s out on bond because he`s not a flight risk. But the fact that that bond went from $2.5 million to $750,000 and he can stay in the house and do what he wants to do, I`m questioning --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: He can`t stay in the house. He can`t stay in the house. He needs to be --
(CROSSTALK)
EIGLARSH: He has a monetary. He`s got a GPS --
MILLS: Right. He can`t -- my understanding today in the news is that in the civil case, that`s a wrongful death, the judge allowed him to stay in the house. He can`t spend any of the money in their joint bank account, but he can sell his car if he wants to.
PINSKY: Wendy, go ahead.
WALSH: Well, I was going to say. You want to look for motive, you go to where you should always go and that`s sex and money. You start to look at what kind of financial strain this couple has been under. Maybe there a little bit too house heavy and cash poor. You start to look for life insurance policies. You start to look for girlfriends and affairs. Motive will show up.
PINSKY: Karen, sex and money, is it that simple?
MILLS: He`s got $200,000 in his 401(k) account. He`s living in a million-dollar house that he only owes another $300,000 on. Before this happened, he earned $160,000 a year. I don`t think the motive is money.
PINSKY: Sam, what do you got?
SCHACHER: Is it, Dr. Drew. Is this something so simple? Because we`ve talked about, like you suggested, steroid usage. Can somebody be normal, a loving husband and a loving father and then abuse steroids and just snap?
PEREIRA: The answer is yes. I don`t know if you ever saw the show "The Drugs Made Me Do It", the professional wrestler who was on steroids and some other drugs and pulled somebody`s heart out? That`s not something that guy would have done in his normal state.
SCHACHER: Like temple of doom? Like --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Like temple of doom.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Yes. And the guy had the heart in his mouth when the police arrived, and that is what drugs will do to you, ladies and gentlemen. It can make your brain not work right and do the things you would never do. Jenny, what?
HUTT: Well, Mark, I have a question for you because you deal with this all the time. If the drug use or the alcohol use rendered his mental state incapable of knowing what he was doing, then would that be a way he could get off?
EIGLARSH: Yes, theoretically, but there`s no jury that`s going to say, yes, you shot her a bunch of times, we`re going to let you go. He needs to go with it wasn`t me.
MILLS: It wasn`t me.
EIGLARSH: And steroid didn`t make me do it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: The guy who tore the heart out is in prison despite of it having been clearly a drug-related. Thank you, panel.
Next up, was Andrea Sneiderman having an affair with the man convicted of having murdered her husband? Her friends are here exclusively to set that record straight. Back after a second.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to just play some sound real quickly. This was of Andrea on the stand here in this case where she kind of makes mention of who she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea why the defendant would have these feelings toward you? Don`t just speculate. Do you know why he might --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I -- um -- I think I`m a pretty nice person. I`m a very caring person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Andrea Sneiderman is no longer an accused killer. Murder charges have been dropped from the shooting death of her husband outside the daycare center. Her boss, an alleged lover, Hemy Neuman, was convicted. Jury selection in her case began today on 13 lesser charges including perjury.
PINSKY: Joining us exclusively, Andrea`s friend, Ryan Stansbury. He and his wife who may be called to testify became friends when their children were in daycare together. This is the same daycare where Rusty was shot. Also here, criminal defense attorney, Heather Hansen, and Judge Karen.
Now, Ryan, I want to go to you first. You say the things that have been said about Andrea have been all twisted around. What do you mean by twisted?
RYAN STANSBURY, ANDREA SNEIDERMAN`S FRIEND: What I mean by twisted is that they effectively fabricated a story to fit what they needed to do to put Hemy Neuman away. And I think Andrea was caught in the middle of it.
PINSKY: Heather, the one thing that I keep -- I`m sorry, Ryan, but Heather, the one thing I keep hearing about this story is that people believe there was an affair, and that if that had happened, she does have some culpability. Do you agree, Heather?
HEATHER HANSEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She has some culpability for having an affair, Dr. Drew, but I don`t think that that necessarily means that she has culpability for murder or even perjury, necessarily, which is what she`s still on trial for. You know, many people have affairs and it doesn`t lead to murder.
PINSKY: Judge Karen, do you agree?
MILLS: Oh, I absolutely agree. I was not surprised that the state dropped these charges. You didn`t call me to talk on your show last week, but that was my prediction was that the prosecution was going to drop this case. They didn`t have a murder case. And I feel the same way about these perjury charges.
If you look at the Georgia statute, the person had to have made a false statement under oath that went to a material issue. One of the statement that she made that went to a material issue, I wasn`t having an affair with him. Was that a material issue? This man was found guilty but crazy.
Why? Because he said he heard voices that made him do it. His own jury didn`t believe that this woman convinced him to kill the victim.
PINSKY: Heather, you wanted to comment on that?
HANSEN: Well, the other thing that I wanted to say, Dr. Drew, is that I`m a little concerned that they`re pressing these charges in the perjury charges to see if they can get her to testify the things that will then implicate her in a murder case. Just because they dropped the charges doesn`t mean that they can`t bring them back.
PINSKY: Wow. Now, Ryan, there are reports that Andrea was seeing another man, one who perhaps left his wife for her. Can you set that record straight?
STANSBURY: Let me tell you something, it`s part of how ridiculous this case has gotten. And some of your guests have nailed it. They never had a case. They had to fit their case to make Hemy look not insane. If they could prove that they were coordinating this, then he was not insane and they would (ph) guarantee their case.
MILLS: Well, the reality is, though, Andrea was having an affair with a man --
STANSBURY: That is not the reality.
MILLS: -- who left his wife.
STANSBURY: At all.
MILLS: Who was six months pregnant. Every report I read --
STANSBURY: You cannot be more further from the truth. You have no idea.
MILLS: What was the truth? What`s the truth?
STANSBURY: This is exactly what I`m telling you.
MILLS: What`s the truth?
STANSBURY: The facts of this case have not been revealed. All you have seen -- you have seen people --
MILLS: What`s the truth?
STANSBURY: -- saying hearsay on the stand. What`s the truth? There was no affair. There was no affair. She has never lied about anything. They may not have liked her answers, but she has never lied about anything. There was no affair.
MILLS: I understand that there were phone conversations between Andrea and this man while he was in jail when they talked about their relationship. They have Andrea saying while I`m in jail, you can live at my parents` house. When he moved in with Andrea, she was six months pregnant. That doesn`t make her guilty of murder. That doesn`t make her a black widow. What it makes her is a woman who knows how to charm women. In my time, they would say --
STANSBURY: What it is is a friend of the family --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Ryan.
STANSBURY: This is a friend of the family who had nothing to do with the murder. Who the D.A. tried to twist into the case.
PINSKY: Ryan, I hope that satisfies you for a last word. I heard you saying that that is again an untrue report. Are you good right now, Ryan? Can I move on?
STANSBURY: Absolutely untrue. But yes, you can move on.
PINSKY: Thank you, my friend. Thank you, panel.
Next, another friend of Andrea is going to join us to talk about why she is publicly supporting her friend. She was at the trial today. I think she probably feels similarly to Ryan. Our panel rejoins us after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with our co-host, Samantha Schacher. Joining us, another exclusive guest, she is Andrea Sneiderman`s Close friend, Steffi Miller, who was actually at the trial today.
Steffie, you say we have misjudged -- not we, but there is information out there that would cause someone to misjudge Andrea. Tell us what you mean.
STEFFI MILLER, ANDREA SNEIDERMAN`S FRIEND: Absolutely. Andrea was in my music classes in a mommy-me (ph) class about seven years ago. She was delightful, warm, funny, quirky, sweet as sugar. She was very involved with her daughter and she would come, sometimes, with Rusty and they would feast on each other. They would feast on their daughter.
They would look at each other with the most magic triangle of love you`ve ever seen. She separated herself from the crowds who come to my classes because she was so warm and even on exiting my classes after two years of staying with me, she said goodbye in a sweet, sweet funny way and told me how much she wished she could continue coming but her daughter was moving on.
And then later, my neighbor moved in and she was best, best, best friends with Andrea and her husband.
PINSKY: OK. Steffi, I get that you know her well and that she was lovely, but let me ask you this. This is what people will shake their head about. We hear the story of her taking these trips with her boss. Don`t you think the quality of that relationship were her husband to know about it, the details that we`ve now heard would be deeply, deeply wounding to him?
MILLER: Do you know that I believe that a woman who is sexually harassed has many different reactions. And some of them are humiliation and fear. I don`t think that she wanted this to be something that her husband had to deal with. I think she probably wanted to handle it.
PINSKY: OK. Judge Karen, you get what I`m getting at here, right?
MILLS: I do, but listen, I heard on one of these trips, she actually called the front desk and asked if they could change her room from a two queen bedroom to a king size bedroom and they ordered popcorn, she and a boss are watching movies in bed. It doesn`t sound like somebody who`s sexually harassed.
Also, they live in a million-dollar home. He left here a nearly $3 million insurance policy. So, these people obviously have money. She didn`t need to work. And if she was being sexually harassed, she could have quit.
PINSKY: Heather, do you agree with that?
HANSEN: You know what? I do to some degree, Dr. Drew, but the thing is, when it`s your boss and your job, it`s not that easy, you get caught up in it, and especially with someone like this killer who was mentally ill enough that he thought that Olivia Newton John was giving him messages and Barry White was giving him messages, that has to be a little scary. So, I see Steffi`s point in that regard.
PINSKY: I see your point, but Ryan, let me ask you two quick questions then I got to finish with this. One, why didn`t she share -- if he was scary, why didn`t she share with it her husband, number one? And number two, why would people look at her on the stand and go, gosh, she was so combative. Should we believe her? You could answer those two.
STANSBURY: Listen, I can`t tell you why she -- if she thought Hemy was scary. I knew that she was consulting her friends and getting conflicting information on how to handle it. But I can also tell you the reason why she looked so combative on stand, which is completely unlike her personality, is because she got sweet talked by the D.A. all week during jury selection.
He would come over nicely, hold her hand and say you`re the key to this case. You`re going to help us put this man away. And she told my wife, she said, you know, "I`m glad they finally came around to believe me." And then as soon as they put her on the stand, they attacked her. She wasn`t being combative against --
PINSKY: I get it.
STANSBURY: -- to put Hemy away. She was being combative because the way they treated her.
PINSKY: I get you. Ryan, Steffi, thank you for joining us. We may have more questions for you in upcoming episodes. I really do appreciate you being here. Panel, thank you. I`ve got to go. "Last Call" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Samantha, "Last Call" to you.
SCHACHER: Listen, I still have a number of unanswered questions in regard to Andrea Sneiderman that are suspicious to me, specifically, the timeline of the phone calls, before and after his death, her knowing that he was shot --
PINSKY: Got to stop you there. I agree with you. HLN right now -- "After Dark" right now, rather.
END
