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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Chilling Testimony in Josh Young Murder Trial

Aired August 02, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JEAN CASAREZ, HOST: Tonight, chilling testimony and evidence by a medical examiner forces a young murder defendant to look away in disgust.

I`m Jean Casarez filling in for my friend, Jane Velez-Mitchell. Thank you so much for joining us.

You are looking at photos right now of the 14-year-old victim with the now 17-year-old defendant. Did he help his father murder his own stepbrother?

The defense says that father, who already pleaded guilty to murder, acted alone. A defense forensic pathologist testified today the victim was likely beaten by one person, not two. Can anyone account, then, for where the teenage defendant, Joshua Young, was that night?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Josh showed more of an aggressive personality.

JOSH GOUKER, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I said, "Josh, if they catch us, you just play crazy."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he cry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I saw.

AMANDA MCFARLAND, MOTHER OF TREY ZWICKER: I struggled with the idea that he could do such a heinous thing.

GOUKER: You know, it`s one murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were two of a kind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone is going to find out that my nephew is innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you that the little boy is just as vicious as his daddy.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: So you think they`re both guilty?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Trey Zwicker was bludgeoned to death and his body dumped in a ditch behind a high school. Could two people have inflicted the beats? The defense`s forensic expert says he doesn`t think so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. GEORGE NICHOLS, FORMER KENTUCKY STATE MEDICAL EXAMINER: This can be done by someone using a rod or rod-like structure, forcefully striking the head, the neck, the upper back, done by a single person standing in the exact same footprint.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Joshua Young turned away as these graphic photographs of his stepbrother`s injuries were shown. Tonight, you are going to hear the details of the 14-year-old`s murder. It sounds intensely personal. You get the picture of a killer in a rage who is out of control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you able to determine how many strike wounds the victim suffered in connection with this beating?

NICHOLS: There are at least five proven injuries due to a rod or rod- like structure that left the telltale mark behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the maximum number of strikes that you could determine, what would be the outside range?

NICHOLS: More than enough is the answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Straight out to the Lion`s Den. We are going to debate all of the evidence and the forensic evidence with my expert panel. But I want to start tonight with forensic scientist, Dr. Larry Kobilinsky.

Thank you so much for joining us.

You know, we saw photos of the blood on the victim`s arm. And we heard about blood that was on rocks and leaves and tree stumps and tree branches.

Let`s start with that arm. Because we`re looking at these very little -- little particles of blood. Doctor Kobilinsky, what is that type of blood and how did it get there?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Well, the pattern of blood stain on the forearm is referred to as arterial spurting. I believe that when the laceration was opened up on the skull, an artery was ruptured, and the heart continues to beat, and with each beat, there is a spurt of blood. That`s the kind of pattern that is seen on the arm.

Now, clearly...

CASAREZ: So he`s alive. He`s alive, Dr. Kobilinsky, is what you`re saying, when that blood is coming out.

KOBILINSKY: That is correct. But at the same time, severe injury to the brain results in a hemorrhage, and ultimately brain death. I cannot say how long he survived after being hit on the head. Most likely we`re talking about, I don`t know, maybe 15, 20 seconds.

CASAREZ: All right. Now let me ask you about blood on the tree stump or the tree branches. That`s high above. I mean, if we visualize somebody with a bat or a pipe continually striking the back of the head, is that where that upper elevation blood comes from?

KOBILINSKY: Yes, precisely, Jean. What this is -- it`s called cast- off spatter. And when you use a device, a linear rod-like weapon, when you first strike the head, it opens up the laceration. And now there is blood that begins to emanate from vessels.

Now, you draw back and you hit the second time, you are now hitting a pool of blood, and when you then pool back that weapon in order to strike again, you now create a linear spatter pattern, which is called cast-off. I believe that`s the kind of blood spatter pattern that you`re talking about now.

CASAREZ: The defense expert, a former chief medical examiner for Kentucky, testified that it is possible but highly unlikely that the victim was beaten by more than one person. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: Now, I can`t tell you that another person could not have also participated in this beating. But to do that, the other person would have to come around the dead, the injured, unconscious child and stand in the exact same place where the original assailant was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now Joshua Young is charged with complicity to commit murder. So if he had stood there, if he watched his father inflict the blows, could he still be found guilty?

Let`s go straight out to Bradford Cohen, defense attorney joining us out of Miami. What say you on this? If he stood there and the one person was his father doing the blows, is he guilty?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, if he just stood there and did nothing about it, it would be very difficult to prove that he actually participated in the murder, as opposed to like a principle theory, where someone robs the bank and you`re the getaway driver, you`re both guilty of robbing the bank.

What they`re trying to prove is that he actually participated in the murder, more than just he stood there and watched and then didn`t say anything about it. Obviously, if you just saw your dad or your stepdad kill someone, you`re probably a little frightened yourself to tell anyone, because you just watched him murder someone.

So that`s not the great argument to make, to say, like, he stood there and watched and he didn`t do anything that he should have done something, when there`s a gentleman who`s, you know, heavier than him he, bigger than he and he`s...

CASAREZ: That was my first sentence: is he down there? Now let`s add to that, that he either led the victim down there, he led Trey down there. That`s not enough, though. Because maybe he led Trey down there to collect another turtle, Ashley Merchant...

ASHLEY MERCHANT, ATTORNEY: Right.

CASAREZ: ... because that`s what they`d done the day before. But the key here is communication in some form or fashion with his father, right, Ashley Merchant?

MERCHANT: Right. They would have had to basically come up with a plan to do this. The law says that, unless he has a duty not just to stop somebody, to stop this action from happening, then he can`t be complicit in a murder. So he would have had to have conspired with him, planned, aided, solicited, done something, an actual act to further the murder.

Because I just think, since he had no legal duty to act, by just standing there watching it, that`s not enough under Kentucky law. He would have had to have actually done something to aid in this crime.

CASAREZ: Kelly Saindon -- prosecutor Kelly Saindon joining us tonight from Chicago.

Here`s what we learned today. And this -- this is horrible. The forensic pathologist for the defense taken out of order because he couldn`t come during the defense case.

He believes that there was a type of hit to the front of the face that knocked him down to the ground. That could have been a punch with a hand. He goes down to the ground, and then blow after blow after blow with what he believes is a pipe.

And all the injuries to the face came from that face going into the rocks and the mud and the dirt and the gravel. Couldn`t one person have hit him in the face and the other person have started beating him with the pipe?

CASAREZ: Yes, and that`s what his testimony was, that he couldn`t conclusively say that the punch didn`t come from someone different than the person inflicting the pipe.

And so that`s why they potentially have a stronger case for the prosecution, because Joshua Young could have lured Trey to the area, knowing that he was going to get beat up, and that would be enough, in my opinion, that he would be complicit in a murder, if Joshua went too far, the father, in hitting the pipe.

And none of this is OK. But that is very damaging testimony, that it could have been more than one, and that would add to the credibility that he was complicit in this crime.

CASAREZ: Back to Dr. Kobilinsky. We also learned today from this medical examiner that -- that Trey was found on his stomach, face into the ground, but there was a lot of dirt on his back, sort of in that middle section, upper waist area, a lot of dirt and gravel on his back. Where did that come from?

KOBILINSKY: That`s a good question. It was either transferred directly to the garment by somebody else, or he actually -- his back -- he was on the ground at some point in time. But I don`t know that that is going to help us reconstruct the events.

I think the crucial point is that there are these four parallel blows by this instrument on the neck and back, and that severe blow to the head. I think that the time frame of that is very short, and how dirt got on his back might be an important point, but I`m not really sure we...

CASAREZ: It could be important, Dr. Kobilinsky, if it forms in the shape of a shoe. If that could be a shoeprint at all in the gravel. We don`t know that at this point, but if a foot was on his back as that blows were being struck to his head. That could be important, everybody.

Joining us right now, a very, very special guest, someone that is having to hear and listen to this evidence in court. Joining us tonight is Shelly Stewart. She is the grandma of Trey Zwicker, who is the very young 14-year-old victim.

Mrs. Stewart, thank you so much for joining us.

SHELLY STEWART, TREY ZWICKER`S GRANDMOTHER (via phone): Thank you. I`m glad to tell everybody what kind of kid my grandson was.

CASAREZ: Well, we want to know about Trey, because we heard your daughter, Amanda, and I was so struck with your daughter Amanda`s testimony, in that -- that Trey was the quiet one, that he was the good guy, that he cared about people. Tell us more about the grandson that I know you helped raise.

STEWART: Trey was a very immature 14-year-old. He hadn`t even gotten into girls yet. He was still playing with video games and skateboards and things like that. He -- he loved taking care of his little sister and stuff. He was still, you know, a little bit less than 14, as most 14-year- olds are today.

CASAREZ: Was he aggressive in nature? Would he -- he be someone that would have provoked an attack? Did he talk back to people? I mean, immaturity can bring certain emotions and reactions in a kid.

STEWART: No, he was a very well-behaved child. Actually, the last conversation I had with him, he was wanting to join the Marine Corps so he would be able to take care of his little sister, because he knew the situation his mom was in, and he was afraid he`d be the one to end up raising his little sister.

So he knew what he wanted out of life. It`s just he didn`t have a chance to have a life. And that spot on his back, that is a footprint.

CASAREZ: It is. I was right.

STEWART: It is a footprint. It`s where they held him down on the ground. And his little face was pushed so much into the dirt and mud that his face print was in the mud. You could see his nose and cheekbones and everything in the mud, along with the blood and everything. We had to look at his face print in that mud.

CASAREZ: Oh, Ms. Stewart.

STEWART: That`s how bad they beat him.

CASAREZ: That is so chilling. You know, I listened, I watched your daughter, Amanda`s, testimony. I found her very, very credible on the stand. Extremely credible. Have you talked to her since she testified?

STEWART: Yes.

CASAREZ: Was she nervous? Was she relieved? How is she?

STEWART: She is -- Amanda has always been a very cold and distant person, even when she was a child. She never had very much emotion, and she showed that on the stand that she wasn`t very emotional, I thought.

But like my grandson, I just want to -- I just want to get sick, like today, seeing all those pictures. Which I had already seen them before. And it upset me kind of bad, but it didn`t seem to very much upset her as it should have, I think.

But she is my kid, you know, so she`s always been heck on wheels when she was 14. And Josh Gouker has been in our life since he was 13.

CASAREZ: Since 13 you have known Josh Gouker.

STEWART: And I have fought to get rid of him ever since he was 13. He has been no good his whole entire life.

CASAREZ: Wow. When you look at Joshua Young, who now stands trial, what Amanda said in regard to Joshua Young, that around the neighborhood nobody liked him, he always talked back, he was the type to just try to make fun of people, do you feel like, that history is repeating itself, that what Joshua Gouker`s reputation was around the community was then Joshua Young`s reputation around the community?

STEWART: Big Josh was trying to create his own little army of teenagers. So he -- big Josh can influence weak-minded people. He loved to control weak-minded people. He had all the bad kids in the neighborhood starting to hang out with him. And if he can control you, that is what he`s all about.

And his son had lost his mother, and all he had was his father, and he had been in foster homes. So I think he would have done whatever his daddy wanted him to do for that approval. He went as far as to stab a dog to get his daddy`s approval.

CASAREZ: And I`ve heard that. Everybody, we`ve got to take a short break. We`ve got Shelly Stewart, Mrs. Stewart, who is Trey Zwicker`s biological grandma with us, who is in that courtroom every step of the way during this trial. We`ll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCFARLAND: I struggle with thinking that somebody who lies down with me and says that they love me, someone who claimed to stand up for my son at the bus stop against the neighborhood bullies, I struggle with the idea that he could do such a heinous thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is literally murder by Josh Gouker and Josh Young.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gouker is a total complete manipulator and liar.

GOUKER: It`s one murder. You know, it`s not like it was a whole bunch of murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just amazes me that you sit there with a smirk on your face and just smile through this whole process, knowing the pain that you`ve caused all these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: The prosecutor admitted in her opening statement that she has no clue what Joshua Gouker is going to say when she calls him to the stand. Now, his first story was that some neighborhood kids beat Trey. Then he said no, his teenage son, Joshua Young, who`s on trial now, did it alone. And finally he said, "No, no, I alone killed Trey."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOUKER: I wouldn`t plan on killing Trey for nothing.

That`s what he wanted them to think, that Josh did it, because he was a juvenile. I said, "Josh, if they catch us, you just play crazy. You know, you`re a minor."

He didn`t have nothing to do with it. Josh loves me, and I let him down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And Joshua Gouker pleaded guilty. He`s serving a life sentence for Trey`s murder.

Gouker`s attorney, Mark Hall, is joining us now on the phone from Louisville, Kentucky.

Mr. Hall, thank you very much for joining us. I have wanted to talk to you, because you are a very important person in this case. You are the attorney representing Joshua Gouker. Are you following this trial?

MARK HALL, ATTORNEY FOR JOSHUA GOUKER (via phone): Yes, ma`am. I have followed it from the beginning.

CASAREZ: Well, it`s very interesting. They have done a lot on the forensic evidence today, a lot of the results of the forensic evidence along with the defense medical examiner. Is your client, Joshua Gouker, going to take the stand on Monday?

HALL: We have been told and put on notice that there is a very good possibility that he will be called as a witness. And I believe that the commonwealth instructed the jury that they intended to call Mr. Gouker. And so he is prepared to testify if called, yes.

CASAREZ: Now here`s my -- here`s my big question. So I guess we -- you won`t confirm that it`s Monday, and maybe you don`t know, because when the prosecution decides they want him, boy, they`ve got to bring him from the prison to the courthouse.

Here`s my question, though, that I`m very perplexed by, because early on Joshua Gouker said that it was Joshua Young. We all know that. He said it was his son, and that`s why his son was arrested for murder.

And then later he changed it around. How do we know that that`s not the truth? How do we know that Joshua Young wasn`t really the killer in all of this? I`m just asking that question to get it out there.

HALL: The -- it`s a great question, and it`s obviously one that the jury is going to have to struggle with when they start their deliberations. And it`s one that has been sort of the basis of the investigation since this started, because every turn of this investigation and this prosecution has made the turn, made the right, the left-hand turn based on comments and statements that Mr. Gouker has made.

And I think that what`s most compelling for the jury to hear, and what I think that will be the most probative evidence to support Mr. Gouker`s guilty plea, is the evidence that the medical examiner, both that the commonwealth will present, the doctor who actually performed the autopsy, and also Dr. Nichols, who testified today on behalf of the defense, they took him out of order.

But both doctors will testify that the physical evidence indicates that one person likely is the -- caused the death. And also the -- a big part and the big point of that is the blow that the victim received to the face, which the medical examiner that the commonwealth will present when we spoke to her in our investigation in preparation for trial, indicated that she believed at the time that the -- and she hasn`t testified at this point, but she believed that the initial blow was to the face and likely came from a fist or something, a blunt-force type of injury to the face.

And frankly, if you look at the stature of the defendant that is sitting trial now, Mr. Young, and you look at the photographs of the victim, it`s unlikely that Mr. Young would have been able to cause the type of injuries that would have caused him to fall face first and allow for the type of violent beating that took place.

And so I think that that evidence is very important, and I think that ultimately the jury will have to put a lot of weight into that.

CASAREZ: It`s a good point. It`s a very good point that you say.

Now we know that the blows to the back of the head were from left to right. That`s what we heard today from the forensic pathologist medical examiner, left to right. I don`t know if that favors someone being left- handed or right-handed, but is your client right-handed, left handed?

HALL: I`m fairly certain he is right-handed, yes.

CASAREZ: OK. And the blows to the front, I guess we will listen to the medical examiner testify, but do you know if the hit to the face was from the left to the right or the right to the left?

HALL: The injury to the face of the victim was on the left side around his eye which would be consistent with a punch from the right hand.

CASAREZ: From the right hand. All right.

We`re going to take a short break, everybody. We have got the attorney for Joshua Gouker, who has pleaded guilty to murder. He is joining us tonight and talking. Mark Hall, attorney from Louisville, Kentucky.

We`ll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOUKER: It`s something in me. I`m just a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you set your son up to kill Trey Zwicker?

GOUKER: No. Absolutely not.

That`s what we wanted them to think, that Josh did it because he`s a juvenile. He`d get less time. He`d be out in, you know, three or four years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The motive for the murder? Revenge. He wanted to kill the teen because his mother aborted their baby.

GOUKER: Look, Amanda had killed my kid. You know, that`s just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crazy. We`re even.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One thing that those guys agree on, and that is that Josh Gouker is a monster and a murderer.

We do not have a deal with Josh Gouker. We have not met with him to go over testimony. We have no idea what he might say when he gets on the stand, because Lord knows he has told a lot of different stories between May 11 and now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: The defense expert testified that 14-year-old Trey was hit over and over and over again, even after he was knocked unconscious and he was lying face down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The force used, was it -- did it exceed the amount of force necessary to cause death?

NICHOLS: Yes. It`s highly doubtful that the initial strike while he was upright killed him. It likely rendered him unconscious. And then it was one or more blows that occurred to the back of his head while he was prone, face down on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: It`s just chilling: strike after strike while the victim was lying face down, hopefully unconscious at that point.

We know that big Josh, Joshua Gouker, has a history of violence. Now, is a 15-year-old boy capable of such brutality? Let`s go out to the Lion`s Den. Because if this was a rage killing, does it favor the defense?

J. Wyndal Gordon, attorney joining us out of Washington, D.C., you know, we just spoke with the attorney for Joshua Gouker, who said that the main piece of evidence to show that it was Gouker that did the killing itself was the force of the violence. And we know Joshua Young doesn`t have to do that to be convicted.

But my question is, do you think a 15-year-old could not do that type of violence?

J. WYNDAL GORDON, ATTORNEY: Well, let me just say, yes, I think a 15- year-old could do it.

But in this case, I`m almost wondering why they even brought this case against this young man in the first place, especially when the prosecutor just stood before the jury, at least the clip showed, stood before the jury and said, "I don`t know what Josh Gouker is going to say." And how else are you going to connect this young man with the crime if Josh Gouker doesn`t say that he was there and he was complicit with this crime?

The forensic evidence certainly doesn`t show that -- that the young Josh Young has committed this crime. The evidence, when you look at it objectively, really doesn`t indicate that he committed this crime. Mere presence at the scene of a crime is not enough to show that a person is guilty. You have to have more.

And I agree with all the other experts in this case: you have to have some type of an agreement, some type of confederation or something. Give me something.

But don`t tell me at the beginning of the case that your star witness, you have no idea what he`s going to say, and that he`s lied, or at least given inconsistent testimonies, multiple times in the past. I`m really confused about this case.

CASAREZ: All right. Bradford Cohen. Criminal defense attorney Bradford Cohen joining us. Here is what I get. I get that they are putting father Josh on to testify against his son, because he originally told inmates, "I set my son Josh up to do it. I set my son up. He did it."

So what they`re going to do is if now big Josh says "No, I did it by myself." They`re going to put these inmates on to say, "Do you know what he told me in jail? He told me x, y and z -- it`s to impeach him.

BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I`m sure they will. But I mean as everybody knows once you`re in jail, those guys that you`re in the cell with want to get out too, so they`re going to say whatever they want to say. I mean the defense is going to tear them apart.

I don`t -- I have to agree. I always wanted to say hallelujah when the last attorney was speaking because I don`t understand -- if you can`t put the connection together and all you have is a bunch of jailhouse snitches saying he told me that he set his up son up to do this, and that`s all you have. And the father a (inaudible) guy and does not look like he`s the peaceful type is going to take the stand and say "I did it. I was the one who did. I was going to say that my son did it because he`s an underage guy and I thought he would get away with it or something like that." I don`t see where the prosecution is going with this if that`s what they`re gambling on is a bunch of jailhouse snitches.

CASAREZ: All right. Ashleigh Merchant, we are just in the beginning really of the prosecution`s case here, if there is a footprint at the scene. If the dirt on the back of Trey does form the print to show a size of a shoe that implicates Josh Young, that obviously helps the prosecution, more or less, if there are text messages of what Josh said to others when it was all over. Doesn`t that help the prosecution?

ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That would definitely help the prosecution. The problem is the prosecution doesn`t know what happened. And if they don`t know what happened, how is the jury ever going to know what happened? Someone has to know what happened. Someone has to prove what happened.

And if the prosecution can`t say this is what happened, and this is the proof we have to show what happened, then the jury -- they`re not going to be able to pick up the pieces and fill in the pieces. That`s not their job. It`s the state`s job.

CASAREZ: It`s called a circumstantial case.

All right. We`ll be right back after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANDA MCFARLAND, MOTHER OF TREY ZWICKER: After Trey had died, I locked his room and I took to my bedroom his pillow and some clothes that still smelled like him. And he said something --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s he?

MCFARLAND: Josh Gouker told me not to bring my dead son to bed with me every night.

So there was another extremely alarming situation that caused a lot of doubt in his story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOSH GOUKER, IN PRISON FOR KILLING TREY ZWICKER: It`s something in me. I`m just a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you set your son up to kill Trey Zwicker?

GOUKER: No, absolutely not. That`s what we wanted them to think, that Josh did it, because he`s a juvenile. He would get less time. He would be out, you know, in three or four years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The motive for the murder -- revenge. He wanted to kill the teen because his mother aborted their baby.

GOUKER: Look, Amanda killed my kid. That`s just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crazy. We`re even.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: The victim`s mother admits that the baby-faced defendant who was 15 years old at the time of the killing had an aggressive side to him. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCFARLAND: Josh showed more of an aggressive personality. He joked on people, teased and made fun of them. Trey had a more laid back, soft hearted, didn`t joke on people.

Trey had his own reasons. He made comments that he did not like Josh Young. Young starts laughing, "Trey, guess what I did. I stabbed a dog in the neighborhood in the nose. Isn`t that funny?" "No, man, that`s sick."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Is this gruesome killing the result of a vicious cycle that repeated itself. Testimony from Terry, Trey`s father, said that he had known Josh Gouker, the father, since middle school. Nobody in the neighborhood liked him. They all thought that he wasn`t trustworthy.

Well, now we hear the same thing was thought about his son, now the defendant, Joshua. Could there be a genetic or an environmental influence on this defendant?

I want to go out to Seth Myers joining us from Los Angeles. He`s a clinical psychologist. Doctor, you know, is there a genetic component to a criminal mind? One that is prone to engage in criminal activity?

SETH MYERS, CLINICAL PSCYHOLOGIST: It`s a great question. Actually Martha Stout has written a lot about sociopathy and actually has shown that there is genetic loading for sociopathy. So yes, if you have a sociopathic parent, you are going to be more likely to be sociopathic yourself and that`s what I think is so interesting here.

I think we have a sociopathic father, a sociopathic son, and with Amanda -- I know Jean, usually I agree with you -- but you mentioned that you found Amanda to be very credible. She actually struck me as psychologically off. No emotion. No affect. Her mother described her as cold since she was a child.

So you know, it really is a whole group of people that seemed to function very dysfunctionally.

CASAREZ: You know, I wasn`t looking at her emotion or lack of emotion and I was looking at exactly what she said. I wanted to see if I felt she was consistent with what she said with what she said with everything I know or inconsistent. That`s what I was looking.

You know, Shelly Stewart, Trey`s grandmother who is joining us, who is Amanda`s mother -- what I want to ask you is about Joshua Young and did his father have this influence over him where he just sort of idolized his father? I mean he had only known him for a few months since he got out of prison. And maybe that`s one of the reasons he idolized him. He hadn`t had him in his life.

SHELLY STEWART, MOTHER OF AMANDA MCFARLAND: Right. He didn`t have his father in his life and his mother had passed away, so he was looking for some kind of affection, whether it be good or bad. Take for instance when they were playing basketball and little Josh wouldn`t hurt his father on the team, his father said, you take out anybody. I think that Big Josh is the one that knocked Trey to the ground and I think he made Little Josh do all the damage to Trey to prove that he was worthy of his father`s love. That`s what I think happened.

CASAREZ: That`s so interesting, Mrs. Stewart.

STEWART: He would do anything --

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: You know this case. You`ve lived this case. The evidence is now coming out and we are learning the case. How does your family feel, though, about Joshua Young being sentenced, convicted and sentenced and in prison for the rest of his life? He really doesn`t have a chance at that point. Do you think --

(CROSSTALK)

STEWART: They will not give him life in prison. They done told me that at his age, he`s not eligible for life in prison. He`ll probably get 35 years or something. But he won`t get life in prison because he`s so young.

CASAREZ: Interesting. All right.

On the other side, a heartbreaking mystery: who would kill a 25-year- old medical student who had an outstanding future ahead of him at the University of Michigan? You`re looking at him right there. We`re going to talk to a friend of his, next.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DeWolf, who was training to be a surgeon, was found dead in the basement of Pi Rho Sigma House, the fraternity for med students where he`d lived for the past three years. Police say he died from a single gunshot. No weapon was found, nothing known was stolen, and there was no sign of a struggle.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely unnerving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ann Arbor Police are telling people here, especially students, to stay vigilant and aware of their surroundings until they can solve this murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Paul was a modern day Renaissance man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 25-year-old aspiring surgeon with a magnetic smile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard for me to believe that Paul would have any enemies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Utter shock spread through the community when a co-worker found DeWolf dead.

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CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez in for Jane Velez-Mitchell. Tonight, a murder mystery in Michigan: a promising 25-year-old medical student and an Air Force second lieutenant was found in a pool of blood in his fraternity house, shot dead from a single gunshot wound to the neck. Cops are calling it a homicide, but they have little clues about who would want Paul DeWolf dead.

Now Ann Arbor police, they were looking for this man that you see right here in this video. It`s video surveillance and it was near by the crime scene. But they tell us that this gentleman voluntarily came forward and he`s not connected to the case in any manner. Adding to the mystery, no weapons were found at the scene, nothing was stolen from DeWolf.

Was he a target? And if so, why?

Now, we`re going to talk to a friend of Paul`s in a moment, but first, let`s go out to Dave Begnaud, he`s the host of "News Breakers" on Aura TV. What`s the latest?

DAVE BEGNAUD, HOST, "NEWS BREAKERS": Well, look, here`s the interesting thing police wanted to talk to that guy. Mainly they went out of their way to say he is not a suspect. We think he`s simply a person of interest.

What is interesting, and as you well know Jean, is that a lot of times the police will initially come out and say look, this person is not a suspect, we only want to talk to them as a person of interest. But behind the scenes police may have a stronger motive. This person may be a suspect. They may just not be letting on at this point. According to police, they have interviewed the person but they`re not willing to divulge details of the interview just yet.

CASAREZ: And David everybody is looking at right now -- we just changes but it was the fraternity house --

BEGNAUD: Right.

CASAREZ: -- because this is a medical student, a current medical student. He wants to become a surgeon, set to graduate from medical school in May. He was the valedictorian of his high school -- just an all around great, great guy. And here`s the thing that I find interesting. He was shot in his bedroom in the fraternity house where lots of other people live, other people were. They`re not talking right now. But Dave, how do they know that it was a homicide? Because one gunshot wound could be a suicide. But they early on have said no, this we believe is a homicide, death at the hands of another.

BEGNAUD: You know what it tells me? It has to do with what the medical examiner has determined. The body`s already been buried now. But there`s something about what that medical examiner has found that leads them to believe that the way the bullet entered, the way it exited the body, if it did, was a homicide.

But again as you pointed out, nothing was disturbed. It doesn`t appear he was robbed. It doesn`t appear as if the home was burglarized. He didn`t live by himself. He lived in close quarters with other medical students at this off-campus frat house. So does somebody know something? Is somebody not talking? And how is it that this guy who was a standout in the Air Force, good looking guy, aspiring medical student, the school said the nicest things about him -- how is it that he dies and nobody knows a thing?

CASAREZ: He was set to graduate from medical school in May, destined to become a surgeon and work for our Air Force.

We`ll be right back with more on this story.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul was probably the best person that I`ve ever met in my entire life. He really brought everyone that was with him up -- myself included. It`s hard for me to believe that Paul would have any enemies. I don`t know a single person that didn`t like him.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Paul was a modern day Renaissance man. He excelled at everything that he did. He will be missed. The community lost a hero and it`s tragic that this had to happen to such a wonderful person.

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CASAREZ: The family has released a statement saying, quote, "A brother, a son a man of faith and a good friend to everyone who had the pleasure of meeting him, Paul will be greatly missed."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victim`s friends are stumped about who would want the hurt this aspiring surgeon, high school valedictorian and marathon runner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul was probably the best person that I`ve ever met in my entire life. He really brought everyone that was with him up, myself included. It`s hard for me to believe that Paul would have any enemies. I don`t know a single person that didn`t like him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Joining me now is Sarala Sarah, a very, very close friend of Paul DeWolf. Sarala we have heard that Paul was a wonderful person, you know, I just look in his eyes in these pictures and you can tell that he`s special. And he had goals and aspirations -- he was going to be a surgeon. What are you hearing about this investigation?

SARALA SARAH, FRIEND OF PAUL DEWOLF (via telephone): Well it`s still ongoing but it is definitely a mystery. They have no suspects, no motive. He really did have no enemies. He was a med school student. He spent most of his time studying. He was getting ready to leave for the Air Force on Wednesday, out to California to do a surgical training. There was nothing tortured in his life. The last time I spoke to him, he had nothing but excitement and happiness to share.

CASAREZ: So you`re saying that he was just about to leave town. He was just about to go out to California?

SARAH: Yes, he was. Actually two days ago he was about to leave to go to California to continue his surgical rotation and begin his flight training.

CASAREZ: How long was he going to be out there?

SARAH: I believe for two months.

CASAREZ: Wow. Do you think that has any connection to this happening because it`s so coincidentally close in time to someone not being able to do this once he left?

SARAH: No, I don`t. But then again that`s just speculation on my part. It`s honestly such a mystery to me. I`m just shocked that something like this could happen to one of the best people I`ve ever had the pleasure of knowing.

CASAREZ: He was actually found in his bedroom. Was he on his bed? Was he on the floor? Do you know where the body was found?

SARAH: I actually have no news about the investigation. The police haven`t released anything regarding that part as well. I do know they`re doing that best to take care of this and I know it`s a top priority for the community.

CASAREZ: Sure. T.J. Ward, joining us, private investigator from Atlanta -- what are your thoughts on this? I mean this is very, very strange. First of all they determined early on it was a homicide.

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, Jean, one of the things that`s going to have to be looked at, not only looking at the crime scene but try to establish the motive and interview people he had contact with but to look at each and everything thing that he may have had -- his computer, phone.

And also something you may have thought of, he was in the military. It`s probably going to be possible they`re going to have to deal with the military police to see if he might have had somebody -- a confrontation with somebody that might have not liked him in the military. They obviously knew he was a medical student and probably knew where he lived. They`re going to have to expand their investigation out further even just beyond the school.

CASAREZ: You know, T.J. there are various law enforcement agencies on this now -- the school police, University of Michigan, you`ve also got the Lansing police and you`ve got the Air Force police that are involved in this investigation. What do you think the most important thing for them to look at is when nothing was taken, his body was undisturbed, nothing was out of place but yet such a personal attack, right?

WARD: Well the witness that they have, they`re going to have to really lean on and they`re going to have expand their investigation out. There`s probably more that police know than what`s being let out. The integrity of this investigation has got to be kept quiet in order to keep the integrity of this case and to take what witnesses they have and try to expand out from there.

CASAREZ: What about the fraternity house? It was filled with fraternity brothers?

WARD: Well maybe somebody in there knows that does not want to be involved or does not want to get involved. They`re going to have to expand out. They`re going to have to expand from the school all the way out to him being in the military and see if they can find a potential witness to find what may have happened in this case.

CASAREZ: All right everybody. We will be right back.

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CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez in for Jane Velez-Mitchell. Nancy Grace is next.

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