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Deadly Crackdown in Egypt; Philly Stop-and-Frisk a Model?; Stop and Frisk Controversy Heats Up; Gun Permit Request Spike in Newtown, Connecticut; Baby Monitor Hacked; Rescued Teen Breaks Silence; Jesse Jackson Jr., and Wife Get Prison Terms; Hostage Standoff Ends with Two Dead

Aired August 14, 2013 - 20:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Members mostly in Cairo are dead. This is new video of Egyptian security forces raiding one of two opposition camps there. They moved in this morning accompanied by tear gas and live ammunition. You could hear shooting in the background. There's troops kicked a wounded man around. Said a protester who escaped one of the two camps, it's an open war.

The raids touching off running battles, new videos as well of Muslim Brotherhood fighters pushing an armored personnel carrier off the Sixth of October Bridge. You'll remember the bridge is one of the rallying points leading into the Tahrir Square during the 2011 uprising.

Unlike then, the images coming in, the images that you're seeing now reflect precious little inspiration but plenty of desperation. Muslim Brotherhood supporters have been living in these camps for the last month and a half ever since the military ousted Egypt's elected president, Mohamed Morsy. Their frustration building.

The ruling military junta making it clear for weeks now they wanted them out. So when the clearing of the camps started this morning, it came as no surprise but it did mean danger for anyone close by.


ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For the Muslim Brotherhood, it is very much an existential battle for some of those hard core supporters. You will see them out there continuously but then at the same time you have --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Egyptian security forces here are clearly using live ammunition. They are firing into the side streets. There are front line positions between protesters, security forces all over Cairo and this time it looks like it is about to get very ugly.


COOPER: Well, it has the Secretary of State Kerry today calling events deplorable. Egyptian Vice President of Foreign Affairs and former top diplomat, Mohamed ElBaradei, has turned in his resignation. The Obama administration now considering calling off next month's big military exercises with Egypt with questions growing about the president's handling, not just of this chapter but entire saga in Egypt.

Arwa Damon, who you saw just a moment ago with guns going off around her, she joins us tonight.

Arwa, it's the middle of the night there now, obviously comparatively quiet to earlier today. What have you seen and heard?

DAMON: Well, curfew full on in effect. It's quite odd how eerily quiet the streets have been tonight especially compared to everything that we saw during the day. The Egyptian security forces not just having to deal with clearing the Morsy supporters from two main sit-in sites, but really multiple front lines at the same time.

We saw Morsy supporters trying to gather, break through the riot polices' ranks. We also saw them actually taking over another square in Cairo where they were as of tonight, as well when we returned back to that location, digging in there, setting up makeshift barricades once again, field hospitals, readying themselves for even more clashes.

And the other issue here, too, Anderson, is that the fighting that to have seemed (INAUDIBLE) the violence is not just clashes that are breaking out between those who support deposed president, Mohamed Morsy, and the security forces. You're also seeing clashes between Morsy supporters and residents in various neighborhoods where these sit-ins, the marches are taking place.

Additionally to all of this, neighborhood watch. Young men in various neighborhoods, taking batons, bats, setting up checkpoints, searching vehicles. It's a very unpredictable situation right now especially here in the capital Cairo.

COOPER: And right now you've basically sort of both sides pointing fingers at each other for the violence. Based on what you saw, what can you report about who's responsible for the deaths?

DAMON: Well, you know, the vast majority of around over 250 deaths is the Mohamed Morsy supporters. The security forces, the government, is saying that their initial intent was simply to lay siege to these two sit-in sites, to allow those who were there to be able to exit but that they were going to be preventing anyone from entering.

They are claiming that they were shot at first by these demonstrators, and then the situation rapidly escalating from there. People who were at these demonstration sites saying that the security forces barely issuing any warning whatsoever, moving in immediately beginning to fire, intense volleys of tear gas and live ammunition, as well.

Anderson, we did not see any of these demonstrators carrying weapons. That's not to say that they weren't. However, there are more than 40 people who were killed, members of the Egyptian police force in all of this. So presumably there were people who were armed, who were shooting at them because of those deaths, but this is very much a blame game at this stage.

The great concern, though, is because these demonstrators are still taking to the streets, yes, in lesser numbers than we were sitting at the two -- than what we were seeing in the two cities but they still are effectively taking to the streets so the concern is that these clashes are only going to be continuing.

COOPER: Yes. Arwa, stay there. I want to bring in our Ivan Watson who's -- happens to be here in New York.

You've got spend a lot of time, Ivan, in Egypt over the last couple of years. You've seen a lot of this firsthand. Where does this go from here? Because the Muslim Brotherhood is not going away. I mean, the Muslim Brotherhood was outlawed for decades and remained. Obviously, it's on its heels right now but they're not going away.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's what's so frightening here. I mean, what does the military want the end game to be? Do they expect that the Islamists in Egypt would just simply disappear if this was such a tenacious organization that survived torture and imprisonment in previous decades? They're not going to disappear.

The experiment of democracy in Egypt that we kind of saw the beginnings of in 2011, I think it's very clear when you see this carnage and this death toll that it's over. The fear is in the cyanide right now of Egypt, on the border of Israel. There are jihadists, there are believed to al Qaeda groups that are waging open insurgency against Egyptian security forces. There have been more deaths there in the last couple of days.

And could that spread now? You've closed the door to the democratic process to the preeminent Islamist political force in Egypt. So what other avenue does it have?

COOPER: And, Arwa, the situation -- we don't have Arwa anymore. But the situation Arwa was describing, now you have these neighborhood groups which is something we saw back in 2011. I mean, it is -- it just seems to be fracturing more and more into disparate groups all sort of taking the law into their hands.

WATSON: It's very frightening when you start to see the cycle of violence and the fabric of society starting to fray, and that was kind of knit together in 2011 after there was a crime spree, and people were very worried and they took charge of protecting their own neighborhoods, and things like that. But that was followed by a historic period of elections and things that had Egyptians very excited. They got the freedom to vote.

How are you going to follow this crackdown when you have had hundreds of people killed not only today but in previous bouts of violence --


COOPER: And does the Muslim Brotherhood then have a role in the elections? I mean, are they allowed to run again?

WATSON: How can they? The president is imprisoned, we don't know where, for six weeks. A democratically -- the first democratically elected president of Egypt. Most of the leadership seems to be under arrest and now this carnage.

COOPER: And we have Arwa back.

Arwa, I mean, the situation you described, these neighborhood groups, it does seem while you're describing a situation which is just fracturing by the hour almost.

DAMON: It does really feel as if one is slowly beginning to watch the unraveling of society Ivan referring to it right there. One also, you know, needs to go back and look at how we reached this point in time. On June 30th, there were an unprecedented number of Egyptians who took to the streets demanding the resignation of former President Mohamed Morsy, calling for early elections, and that then gave the military the support it believed it needed to go in and oust former president, Mohamed Morsy.

And since then tensions in Egypt have only been increasing society, the population growing more polarized in these pro and anti-Morsy camps. Additionally to all of this, and this is also very disturbing as well, some of the violence, we saw today mobs of Morsy supporters attacking police stations but also, Anderson, attacking a number of churches across the country, as well.

COOPER: And Arwa and Ivan, I want to bring in -- I want to extend the discussion, I want to bring in "Daily Beast" and "Newsweek" correspondent, Peter Beinart. He's editor of "The Daily Beast's" blog, and is usually a defender of the administration but now not so much on this case.

Also national security analyst Fran Townsend. Fran, as you know, serves on the CIA and Department of Homeland Security External Advisory Board.

Fran, what's your sense of where this goes?

FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, they've -- clearly they've declared a state of emergency because they expect that this violence is going to continue. When you see the sort of fatalities and injuries and the numbers we've seen, there's been reports of over 900 injured in addition to the deaths that we reported, you've got to expect that this is not just simply going to stop.

The security services have made perfectly clear their willingness to revert to brutality and violence, and the pictures speak for themselves, but look, you've got to -- if you want to move to the democratic society that Ivan and Arwa have both spoken about, you have to be inclusive.

Look, we've got in this country, there are plenty of groups who stand for ideals that the majority of the population don't believe in. But they can be heard, they can be safe and secure in raising their voices, and they can run for public office, which is not to elect the people whose ideals we disagree but Egypt is going to have to work its way through a process. The military can't sideline them and expect them not to revert to violent activity in the streets. COOPER: And, Peter, I mean, we've talked about what Egypt can do. Is there much that the U.S. actually can do here? I mean, obviously, the U.S. gives a lot of aid but it sounds like at this point the generals kind of don't even care whether that continues or not, that that aid can be replaced by Saudi Arabia or somewhere else.

PETER BEINART, EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST'S OPENZION.COM BLOG: Right. At this point it's hard to see how much the U.S. can do very much. I think the real question that historians will be looking at for many, many years is, would it have made a difference at the moment of the coup when there was still a possibility of restoring Morsy or forcing the military not to go down this path?

If the U.S. said then at that point, said, we're cutting off aid, taking a really blunt unequivocal stance instead of what the Obama administration did which is kind of trying to have it both ways, essentially saying we're not going to cut off aid, we accept that Morsy probably won't come back but still try to be restrained --


COOPER: You used the word coup. The administration has not used --

BEINART: Right. They didn't want to use the word coup because it would have required cutting off aid. In retrospect, and obviously hindsight is always 20/20. In hindsight they were too nuanced. They were trying to split the difference and their message didn't get through. And I think that -- at that moment perhaps the U.S. could have stopped the military. We don't know but it would have had a better chance than it does now.

COOPER: Well, Fran, I mean, all along in all of this, how much impact do you think the U.S. really could have had? I mean, even under -- in the overthrow of Mubarak, there are many people who criticized the Obama administration for not supporting Mubarak longer, I mean -- I mean, you and I were there. The sense on the street was, it didn't matter what the U.S. was going to do.

These events on the ground in Egypt are happening at a pace that is irregardless of what the United States is doing.

TOWNSEND: That's right. And what we haven't -- you mentioned Saudi Arabia, but this is an instance where Egypt is such a powerful force in the Arab world, and with its Arab allies, this is a place where actually our Arab allies can perhaps be more influential than we can.

Look, we could have -- I think if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. So this was a coup. We can -- we can debate why the administration didn't use it. I have to agree with Peter, they didn't use it because of the consequences of that. But look, it was clearly a coup.

The fact is, though, the problem with cutting off aid, you've got to play the chess game of moving the pieces down the board. If we removed ourselves and removed the aid, someone who has different -- a different foreign policy agenda might have filled that gap. So Russia or Qatar or others within the --


COOPER: But even -- but look at Saudi Arabia. I mean, talking about Saudi -- you know, Saudi Arabia could have an impact. Saudi Arabia doesn't want a democratic Egypt, do they? I mean, that -- they don't want that example of democracy in the Middle East.


WATSON: Stability is what many analysts would say.

TOWNSEND: That's right.

BEINART: Well, Saudi Arabia -- right. But I think what Fran was saying correctly is there ultimately will be no stability without the Islamist having the opportunity to express themselves politically. And because the U.S. didn't -- the U.S. was equivocal and the Gulf states, Saudi Arabia and others, came down very strongly on behalf of the -- of the people of the military leading this coup.

And now we have the possibility of a Syria-like situation in which we've got different regional actors, Turkey on behalf of the Islamist brotherhood, the Gulf states on the other, playing it out with Egypt as their battlefield like Syria has been.

COOPER: Quickly, who -- I mean, Peter, do you see this going to wider conflict? Do you see this or at least erupting larger within Egypt?

BEINART: Well, you don't have the same sectarian divisions exactly, although I think the question of the Coptic is very, very concerning one. But I do think you have the possibility of the most powerful country in the Middle East now being essentially an open battlefield in which you could imagine people starting to arm elements of the Muslim Brotherhood. They have supporters all over the Middle East, and that is a truly, truly frightening --

COOPER: Fran, do you see that as well?

TOWNSEND: Yes. I think there's a real -- I think the Saudis want stability. They didn't want to see Morsy as a member of the Muslim Brotherhood in power. And so there are these regional actors who are playing through their own agendas and I think that fuels further conflict.

COOPER: Dangerous days. Thank you so much Peter, Fran, Ivan, Arwa, as well.

Arwa, please stay safe.

Let us know what you think. Call me on Twitter @andersoncooper.

Next, the big city African-American police chief on why, controversial or not, his department uses stop-and-frisk.

And later Hanna Anderson opens up online about her captivity and what she thinks of the killer who kidnapped her.


COOPER: "Keeping Them Honest" tonight on stop-and-frisk. New York's controversial policy of detaining and searching hundreds of people, mostly innocent people, every day in hopes of reducing crime.

On Monday a federal judge calling it discriminatory put limits on it. A New York police officer reacted today telling the "New York Post," quote, "Welcome to Chicago," he said, meaning say good-bye to New York's plummeting murder rate. If that's what the judge wants, this officer said, crime is going to go up.

The Chicago PD taking sharp exception, a spokesman saying, quote, "We had significantly less crime, significantly fewer shootings and fewer murders of any year since 1965 without imposing on the right of our residents."

So who is right? And can you operate a stop-and-frisk program without discriminating and alienating communities you both sworn to protect and whose help you need to do it?

Let's talk about it with Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey whose department uses a version of stop-and-frisk, also conservative blogger, Crystal Wright, and criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos.

Commissioner Ramsey, your city actually faced a similar situation as New York. Litigation that led to mandated reforms, some including New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, have pointed to crime rates going up as a result of those reforms, and when the mayor was first pressed on this issue last year he said, quote, "Why would any rational person want to trade what we have here for the situation in Philadelphia, more murders, higher crime?"

To that you say what?

CHARLES RAMSEY, PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, to that I say he's wrong. Our murders are actually down 30 percent this year, shootings down 18 percent, overall crime is down significantly in Philadelphia. But we did enter into an agreement, I think, in the long run is going to be for the betterment of the department.

COOPER: Explain that. I mean, does stop-and-frisk work?

RAMSEY: Well, it's not a question of just if it works. Does it work? Yes. But we have to be careful as police to make sure that whatever we do we do within constitutional guidelines. We can't just sacrifice all constitutional rights in order to impact crime. I think you can -- you can do both. I think you can impact crime and do so within constitutional guidelines.

Stop, question and frisk is a valuable tool but it has to be done correctly.

COOPER: There are a lot of people, though, who say look, this is not racial profiling, this is -- this is going where crime is. To that you say what?

RAMSEY: Well, it is going where crime is but you still need reasonable suspicion before you can temporary detain a person for investigative purposes. You also have to have some reasonable belief that a person is armed and dangerous before you conduct a frisk. I mean, it's pretty clear and I think we need to really focus on our training for officers, but we also need to make sure that we have in place audits to make sure that they're doing it correctly.

We do have to record all stops in Philadelphia. We do have a multi- layered approach toward auditing these stops to make sure that they're being done properly, and in the long run, I think it's better for the community, it's better for the department, it's better for everybody concerned.

COOPER: Crystal, you support what New York has been doing, but a vast majority of the people who are stopped and frisked are released. They have done nothing wrong.

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, EDITOR/BLOGGER, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: I agree with Commissioner Ramsey. We have to go where the crime is, and the crime is overwhelmingly in New York City, in predominantly black neighborhoods, and the crime that's being commented in New York City is overwhelmingly done by minorities, particularly black males.

Now this is an inconvenient truth but it's a reality. So why would you stop somebody that's like a Norwegian tourist when they're not committing the crime? And at the end of the day, I also agree with Commissioner Ramsey, we need to honor the Constitution, the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable search, but the fact is, police officers under the Fourth Amendment have the right to reasonable searches.

Now do we need to revisit the program periodically and how we train officers? Sure. But I also -- there's one thing I want to disagree with the commissioner on, and that is, from what I've read, your crime rate is going up. Crimes have gone -- increased in Philadelphia compared to last year before you engaged in this settlement.

Now, you know, I think that we would -- you know, you may disagree with me on this but from what I see that's happening in Philadelphia, we've taken the politically correct route and oh, let's make sure the police officers aren't pissing off anybody when they have to actually go in neighborhoods and do their job.

RAMSEY: I don't know what you read. I don't care what you read. But that's just simply not true. And if it is true, you can't tie it right back into any settlement agreement that we may have entered into. I mean, crime --

WRIGHT: Well, but you --

RAMSEY: -- is something that does fluctuate.

WRIGHT: Right. I understand.

RAMSEY: -- for a variety of reasons.

WRIGHT: Right. But I do understand, you also said, Commissioner Ramsey, that you didn't think it was inappropriate for people to assume because you're stopping a black individual that you didn't have the right as an officer or your officers to stop that individual just because of his race. I mean, I think that's an --


RAMSEY: But it's --

WRIGHT: That's a dialogue that we need to have.

RAMSEY: Well, it's not about race. It's about what is that person doing? What is the behavior? Are you responding to a flash message? Does the person fit the flash? Is the person --

WRIGHT: Right.

RAMSEY: -- a member of a gang? And you're looking at retaliation as a possibility and are known to carry weapons?

WRIGHT: Yes. Right, but you're --

RAMSEY: I mean, you have to have more. Is that -- listen, there are more descent law-abiding people living in black communities, Hispanic communities and every communities than criminals.

WRIGHT: There sure are. But you were --

RAMSEY: And you can't --


RAMSEY: Paint everybody with the same brush.

WRIGHT: OK, but you --

RAMSEY: You just can't do it.

WRIGHT: I'm going to disagree with you, and like I said before about the crime, the crime is occurring at a higher rate in predominantly black neighborhoods. And there's a reason why when Anderson was growing up --

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And what is the reason for that?

WRIGHT: Wait. Because of the breakdown of the black family.

GERAGOS: Well, what's the reason for that?

WRIGHT: There is no fathers in the house.


GERAGOS: That's just -- well, that could be.

WRIGHT: Chicago? Chicago? Chicago is --

GERAGOS: But it's an economic --

COOPER: Let her finish. Let her finish.

WRIGHT: Can I finish? Chicago is genocide, black male genocide central.

RAMSEY: I'm from Chicago, I grew up in Inglewood. And if you know anything about Chicago you know about Inglewood and gangs and issues. I've been -- I've been -- I was a Chicago policeman for 30 years. I've been police chief in Washington, D.C. for nine. I've been police commissioner in Philadelphia for five and a half.

I didn't come out so bad and I grew up in Inglewood. You cannot paint every black person that grew up in any particular environment.

WRIGHT: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Don't distort what I said.

RAMSEY: As necessarily being bad -- well, wait a minute now.

WRIGHT: That's not what I said.

RAMSEY: Or being prone to crime. Listen --


WRIGHT: That's not what I said. You're misrepresenting what I said.

COOPER: Commissioner Ramsey, Mark Geragos, we need to take a quick break. Hold those thoughts. A lot more to talk about. We'll continue the conversation after the break.

Also ahead tonight, kidnapping victim Hannah Anderson goes online, gets candid about the horrific ordeal she survived. What she's saying and how it might affect her recovery ahead.


COOPER: Welcome back. "Keeping Them Honest." We're continuing the conversation on stop-and-frisk. With us is Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey, conservative blogger Crystal Wright, and criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos.

Commissioner Ramsey, you were trying to make a point before the break. I want to pick it up there.

RAMSEY: Here's the bottom line. As police, we have to make sure that we exercise the enormous authority that the public has given us in a constitutional way. And we do not abuse people's rights. We do not say that there is more -- all black people are criminals or there are more in this community or more in that community.

There are some in every community. We need to weed them out, but we need to do so in a fashion where we do not disrupt the decent law- abiding people that are just trapped in an environment that they don't want to be in any more than you would want to be in --

COOPER: Commissioner, in your experience -- Charles Blow was on this program, a columnist the other day, with Crystal and with Mark. One of his points was that the experience for a young black male, say, of being pulled over, of being stopped, of being frisked, and not having anything on you, and, you know, statistics show most people who are stopped and frisked are let go because they haven't done anything wrong, nothing is found on them, that that builds a certain sense of humiliation.

It builds a resentment towards the police. It builds a sense that the police are not there to help us, they are there to monitor us. And that long-term actually hurts -- hurts law enforcement because there is not that sense of cooperation. Do you agree with that?

RAMSEY: Well, it does have a negative impact on our relationships. Most of the complaints I get are not about the stop. It's about how they were treated during the stop. And again, it goes back to training and making sure that police officers can do their job but do so by treating people in a respectful way.

WRIGHT: I agree with the commissioner. You know, police officers should be trained. I mean, they have to -- and I think stop and frisk you continue to monitor the training, how are the police doing this in the field?

RAMSEY: We can go about and make neighborhoods safer, and people want us to make them safer, but at the same time, they want us to respect the rights that they have, even criminals have rights. Everybody has rights. It's the way in which we go about doing our job and investigating, the way we write it up. Most of these stops are probably good stops, but the cops write them up terribly and don't justify the reasons why --

COOPER: Because Crystal --

RAMSEY: -- it's a problem.

COOPER: Crystal, when you look at the reason police officers says they pull somebody over and furd of movement, does that worry you? I mean, as somebody who respects the constitution does it worry you a police officer is saying they made a furd of movement on the street and I can pull them over and frisk them?

WRIGHT: Look, I've said from the beginning, the police need training and I think they have to evaluate how they are pulling people over and why and what behavioral things. We need concentrating. New York City is a lot safer and I want to go back to yes, there is -- I think it's less than 2 percent of the people pulled -- stopped and frisked have guns on them. However, wouldn't you argue that because folks know there is stop and frisk going on in New York City you would think twice about packing a gun and doing something bad.

GERAGOS: I think there is a lot of people who would argue that the reason there is only 2 percent is because you've got gun enforcement laws in New York and they don't want to be caught with them. Remember, Plaxico, he shot himself and went to state prison --

WRIGHT: Four hundred murders -- 400 murders last year?

GERAGOS: Four hundred murders as a percentage I don't think if I'm in a particular community if a small tiny percentage of constituents in our community --

WRIGHT: Eight million people --

GERAGOS: I don't what to give up my constitutional rights.

COOPER: Commissioner Ramsey, I want to leave you with the last word. My understanding in New York when stop and frisk has gone down 20 percent of increased monitoring and training, crime hasn't gone up. If stop and frisk is the reason that crime has reduced and in New York, you would think a 20 percent reduction of stop and frisk would raise the crime rate, but it hasn't in my understanding.

RAMSEY: New York has done a tremendous job in lowering the crime rate over the last couple decades. There is no question about that. We're not talking about throwing out stop and frisk. We need that. But need to make sure we do anytime a way to not lose that. If we don't straighten up our act as police we'll lose it and really have a problem. We were supported to do this segment yesterday.

The reason I didn't do it is because I had a policeman shot yesterday, shot in the stomach by a person with 12 prior arrests, carrying a stolen firearm and shoots one of my policeman at point blank range under his vest and he's fighting for his life as we speak. We encounter some very dangerous people on the street and nobody knows it better than I do.

But at the same time, we can't just go through that neighborhood that that particular person is from, throw everybody on the wall, start random searches of people simply because we have that take place. We've got to go after the people causing harm, have the reasonable suspicion and bases for the stop that we need to have so we can preserve the tools that we have available to us.

COOPER: Commissioner Ramsey, I appreciate you being on and the best to that officer and we hope that officer recovers. Crystal Wright, great to have you on as well. Mark Geragos, thank you so much.

Well, there's a lot more happening tonight, Susan Hendricks is here with the 360 Bulletin -- Susan.

SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, convicted leaker Army Private First Class Bradley Manning apologized for actions today at his sentencing hearing. He said he hurt people and hurt the United States by leaking tens of thousands of pages of classified documents and videos to the web site Wikileaks.

Demand for gun permits has spiked in Newtown, Connecticut. As of August 8th, 209 permits have been issued. A 22 percent increase over the entire previous year. This is the same town where 26 children and adults were shot to death at Sandy Hook Elementary School last December.

And near Houston, unbelievable, a high-tech nightmare for the parents of a 2-year-old girl, an unknown hacker gained access to their baby monitor and called out to the girl by name after likely seeing her name posted on her bedroom wall. The hacker also harassed the girl and parents with foul language. The little girl did not hear the hacker because she was deaf and she didn't have her cochlear implants in at the time but a terrifying situation.

COOPER: Susan, thanks very much. Coming up, 16-year-old Hanna Anderson answering questions about the ordeal, surviving kidnapped after her mother and brother were killed.

Also ahead, searching for answers in the deadly jetliner crash, the latest on that and more still ahead.


COOPER: It's been hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign funds and everything from vacations and furs to Michael Jackson memorabilia. Now former Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. learns the price he'll pay in prison time when we continue.


COOPER: Welcome back. New details tonight about what was found in the burned down home of Hanna Anderson's kidnapper James DiMaggio. According to search warrant by our affiliate KGTV, the bodies of Christina Anderson and the Anderson's family dog were discovered in DiMaggio's detached garage. A crowbar was next to the mother's body. Inside the house, the remains of Ethan Anderson.

Authorities also noted that DiMaggio's sister made an unusually large number of calls to him on the day of the fire. According to the warrant, phone records show that Hanna Anderson and DiMaggio called each other about 13 times before the phones were turned off the day she was kidnapped. Today an Idaho coroner said a preliminary autopsy shows that DiMaggio was shot at least five times. He was killed by an FBI tactical agent after a massive manhunt and tonight we know why she didn't try to escape from him, he would have killed me.

That's what Hanna said in what amounts to her first public interview in an online chat room. She felted questions about horrific ordeal, online posting about her mom and brother and what happened the night that DiMaggio killed them. The online openness stunned some, but she's a 16-year-old girl doing what teenagers often do. Casey Wian reports.


CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 16-year-old Hannah Anderson is sharing details about her kidnapping on social media. She fielded questions on the site "ASKFM" about her abduction by the man she knew as Uncle Jim, James DiMaggio. A user asked, did you want to go with DiMaggio? She replied, no, not at all. Why didn't you run? He would have killed me. Why didn't you tell your parents he creped you out? In part, he was my dad's best friend and I didn't want to ruin anything between them.

Hannah shed new light on the night she was kidnapped, the same night her mother and younger brother were murdered. Their bodies burned in DiMaggio's house. How did he separate you from your mom and brother? He tied them up in the garage. How did he keep the fire a secret? He had it set where it would catch on fire at a certain time.

Hannah also wrote DiMaggio threatened to kill her if she fled and brought her at least in part to help carry equipment in the wilderness. Some questions from subscribers were brutally blunt. Did he rape you? I'm not allowed to talk about it so don't ask questions about it, thank you. Are you glad he's dead? Absolutely. Some experts question the wisdom of Hannah's online chats.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: This is a 16-year-old who is totally traumatized. She is in a state of trauma and so she is not thinking. Sometimes in a numb state you're doing things that you don't really consider the consequences.

WIAN: Hannah even posted a selfie and engaged in lighter conversation typical of a teenage girl, but even some of that seemed painful. What design did you get on your nails? Pink for my mom and blue for Ethan. Those who know her tells CNN Hannah spent some of Tuesday helping to plan their funerals. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.


COOPER: Hanna's father asked for privacy after the rescue so the postings came as a surprise to a lot of people. I want to bring in Rebecca Bailey, co-author of "Safe Kids, Smart Parents." She is also Jaycee Dugard's therapist. Dugard you may remember was held captive, of course, for 18 years.

Rebecca, thanks for being with us. What do you make of this? Is it healthy for her to answer questions from complete strangers online three days after she was freed?

REBECCA BAILEY, CO-AUTHOR, "SAFE KIDS, SMART PARENTS": You know, as usual, I go to the go-to place, which is I can't judge if it's healthy or not for her. She -- as you said, is a 16-year-old girl processing a tremendously traumatic experience in the only way that she knows how at this point.

COOPER: And I guess, I mean, one of the conversations someone asked her if her dad knew that she was answering these questions and she said that quote, "he knows." It would be hard, I guess, as a parent in this situation to strike the right balance between being vigilant and giving your daughter the space she needs.

BAILEY: Absolutely. I mean, would I advice her to be processing this way? No. We've got to speculate if we're going to speculate, which again, I hate to do her dad is dealing with his own tremendous, tremendous grief right now, and in some ways, she was able to take some sense of power in her ability to not answer the questions. She did set a limit and say no, I can't answer that.

COOPER: Yes -- and -- and some of the questions, I mean, I -- when I heard she was doing this, first of all we weren't sure it was real. We knew about this last night at air time, but wanted to make sure it was her, of course, but also exposing yourself to, you know, complete strangers online. Some of the questions were really horrible, too horrible to even repeat on air. That's certainly one of the dangers in something like that, somebody opens themselves up to the positive feedback but also the negative.

BAILEY: I agree. And unfortunately, it's a strange world that a lot of our teenagers live in, as we talk about in our book and why you have to revisit and revisit this top pick. My concern more is that if she didn't understand before she was doing this that it might get to the media, and that's what is troublesome because she's trusting and having it in her face. It's small potatoes compared to what she's dealt with, Anderson, we know that.

It's a top pick parents should have with their children about the implications of when you do expose yourself publicly like this, but again, this is what she's doing to cope right now, and my goodness, this girl needs some support somewhere. I wish it wasn't strangers, and I really hope that she's got people surrounding her and supporting her that are there for her.

COOPER: You know, one of the things I read a couple years ago about PTSD, therapy that psychologists are doing in the field with soldiers and marines and service members with PTSD is trying to give them a narrative to kind of explain their time overseas, and giving them a narrative even before while they are still overseas before they come home it helps them, I don't know, process is the word right.

Is that something that's important for somebody for a child who's undergone a trauma to kind of come up with a narrative that -- I mean, it's something that doesn't make sense but at least give an explanation in their own mind?

BAILEY: Anderson, that's such a great observation because again, it's so case specific but for some people processing PTSD, doing it this way, developing narrative so soon can be helpful. For some it cannot be. Some people need to be quiet and sit with it and not talk about it. But you're absolutely right. For this individual child, this may be what exactly -- exactly what she needed to give it some sort of a sense of control and some sort of a story.

COOPER: And this is obviously something you do in your work and write about in the book.


COOPER: But what -- just for parents out there whose child has undergone any kind of traumatic thing, obviously, not something to this degree, even, what do you recommend in terms of helping them kind of -- I don't want to say move on because that's not the right term, but help them understand it, helping them deal with it. BAILEY: Well, in addition to certainly seeking professional help when it's the right circumstance, allowing the child to bring the information to you when they -- when they see fit. I also want to say for a lot of kids this is a scary top pick. They are hearing about it in the news. They are hearing about it on the radio and in some levels, there is a bit of a trauma of hearing about this. It brings to mind, you know, uncle so and so. Do I have to worry about him? So help the kids deal with potential trauma of even the reality that things like this happen by talking with them, allowing them to share their feelings. So the best answer is revisit and try to revisit on their terms.

COOPER: Good advice. Rebecca Bailey, always good to have you on, thank you.

BAILEY: Thank you so much, Anderson, take care.

COOPER: Coming up a grim and bloody ending to a hostage at a bank we talked about last night. Details what happened ahead.


COOPER: A check with Susan Hendricks and a 360 business bulletin -- Susan.

HENDRICKS: Anderson, the NTSB is investigating today's deadly crash of a UPS cargo plane near Birmingham's airport. The pilot and co- pilot were killed. The jet coming from Louisville, Kentucky went down on approach and burst into flames. Nobody on the ground was hurt.

Former Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. will serve 30 months in prison for spending about $750,000 in campaign funds on personal expenses. His wife, Sandy Jackson, was sentenced to a year behind bars. The couple who have two young children pleaded guilty to a number of charges in February.

A 360 follow now, a standoff at a Louisiana bank is over and two are dead. Police said the suspect shot his two remaining hostage when is a SWAT team stormed the building overnight. One hostage died. Police killed the gunman.

And children may be priceless, but the cost of raising them can break the bank. On average, it now costs a middle income couple $241,080 to raise a child to age 18. That's according to new government data and by the way, Anderson, that does not include college.

COOPER: Getting pricey. Susan, thanks. "The Ridiculist" is next.


COOPER: Yes, time for "The Ridiculist." Tonight we have the story of a man in Tennessee and the beloved raccoon, two raccoons, actually. Once upon a time there was a raccoon named Gunshow and he posted a video online of he and Gunshow dancing to what early but Aretha Franklin's "Chain of Fools." Now sadly, that particular raccoon has gone onto the great gun show in the sky. He passed away in January. Four months later a new raccoon came into Mr. Brown's life and apparently into his bathtub, as well. Normally when a masked bandit shows up in the bathroom, that's a bad idea, but he bottle fed, kept as a pet and showered with.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my darling on my shoulder, suds up, you shampoo your cat, you shampoo your dog. I shampooed my raccoon.


COOPER: Does that sound like that? It's rare to hear that sentence use in a literal way. Sadly, these days Mr. Brown is showering alone because the Tennessee Wildlife again see took Rebecca away because it's illegal to keep a wild animal as a pet. Mr. Brown doesn't see it that way.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm trying to get her out of captivity and keep her from this, and this, I have done nothing wrong but save something from a certain death. What I did should not be condemned. It should be commended. She would not be here today had it not been for me.


COOPER: Well, now he's appealing to the governor to bring his little baby home and blames the whole thing on the cruel mistress of internet fame.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So now that I have become a big fish, they have come after me to take Rebecca away from me. The governor just gives me my permit, give me my pardon and I'll shut up. I ask god every night for two things, either free Rebecca back to me, or let me just forget about it.


COOPER: That beard is amazing. Look, I've said it before and again, it's hard not to be sympathetic for a grown man looks like he's in ZZ top is poetic as his raccoon. There seemed to be a unique bond there. When it comes to this raccoon controversy, you make the call on "The Ridiculist."

That does it for us. See you again one hour from now at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.