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Jane Velez-Mitchell

Teen Accused of Fatally Stabbing Mother

Aired September 05, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight it`s something straight out of a Jodi-Arias-inspired nightmare. A beautiful 18-year-old daughter accused of viciously stabbing her own mother 79 times while in the bathroom, and slitting her throat. But even more shocking, just hours before Isabella Guzman allegedly committed this grisly murder, her mom had called the cops to the house and told them she was scared for her life. So what on earth happened?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighteen-year-old Isabella Guzman is accused of killing her mother, stabbing her 79 times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I still can`t believe it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He saw Guzman standing at the door holding a knife. She never said anything as she exited the bathroom and was just staring straight ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Female is going to be armed with a knife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s always been very affectionate with me and loving with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a nearly 20-hour search for 18-year-old Isabella Guzman, witnesses sent these pictures of police locating her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what could have happened. Only God knows.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`ve got breaking news for you. Isabelle was in courts just moments ago, and to say Isabella was acting bizarre is a wild understatement. Look at her. And there she is smirking. And she points at the camera. She makes faces. Is she having a meltdown after committing murder?

The morning of the attack, Isabella allegedly sent her mom an e-mail saying, quote, "You will pay." Cops say Isabella quickly made good on that threat.

Isabella`s step-dad said he heard his wife screaming from help from the upstairs bathroom, and when he rushed the room the door was locked and blood was seeping out beneath the door on the floor. He calls 911. He says by the time help arrived she`d already escaped from the bathroom with a knife in her hand, allegedly leaving her mother with 79 stab wounds and a slit throat, naked on the bathroom floor. Thirty-one to the face, 48 to the neck.

Cops launched a manhunt for this teen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The female is going to be armed with a knife. She is supposed to be in the backyard. I don`t have a description.

She`s an 18-year-old female, mixed race. I think it might be with Asian. She`s wearing a pink tank top, shorts and one shoe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why would anybody murder their own mom? Call me: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

We have an amazing panel of guests in our Lion`s Den tonight, including John Kelly, host of Investigation Discovery`s Dark Minds. But first straight out to KRLD reporter Joe Gomez.

Joe, we`ve learned there was a lot of drama before and during Isabella`s arraignment. What is the very latest?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD: Jane, what shocks me the most is the lack of any kind of emotion that Isabella felt. We heard in the arrest affidavit that she stared straight on when her father heard thumping upstairs, when he went up there and saw blood creeping out from the bottom of the bathroom floor. And she just stared straight on and she the house.

Then, Jane, we see pictures of the courtroom where, again, she`s making these weird faces. She had to even be dragged to the courtroom because she wasn`t going to leave her cell.

What strikes me the most of this, Jane, is just the lack of emotion. What made her feel so detached from her mother that she could stab her something like 80 times? Eighty times this 18-year-old girl stabbed her own mother! What caused that to happen, Jane? That`s my question.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And slit her throat, I might add. Yes, slit her throat.

Take another look at the bizarre video from Isabella`s arraignment. And this came in just minutes ago into our newsroom. And again, she`s accused of viciously murdering her own mom. Thirty-one stab wounds to the face, 48 to the neck, including a slit throat.

Here she is acting like a brat in court, mugging for the camera like hey, she`s got to do study hall and it`s a big joke. Smirking in front of the judge. Smirking in front of the cameras. Unbelievable.

We don`t know exactly what mother and daughter were fighting about, but neighbors reportedly had called cops in the past when they saw men jumping over the fence into the family`s backyard, only to learn that those men were Isabella`s boyfriends paying a visit.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Is she a defiant teen who wanted male company against her mother`s wishes? Remember, her mother`s last words was "Jehovah" as she was dying. So perhaps the mother has some religious beliefs that conflicted with what her daughter was doing. Or is this girl just mentally ill or both?

Got to start with Simone Bienne, relationship expert.

SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Jane, I mean, you could answer yes to both questions. First of all, we do know that we`ve all been teenagers. We know what it`s like to have really intense emotions. But this isn`t just the stuff of a rebellious teenager. She is acting like a psychopath.

In court, we`re seeing a follow-up where she is exactly -- the court reporter just said there`s no remorse whatsoever. And, you know, what could lead to this?

Well, we do know from the studies that we`ve heard that at 7 years old she was sent off to her biological father. Did she feel abandoned by her mother? Did the rage grow and grow?

We also know that she is at the age where schizophrenia could develop. We also know that mania could develop. Was she on drugs? So the fact is that this is a very disturbed teenager, and it is a very chilling tale.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I know we`ve all been teenagers. And I was kind of a crazy teenager running around and partying. But I`ve got to tell you: I never spoke back to my parents. I felt that the sky would fall down if I ever, ever spoke back to my parents. It just wasn`t done.

There were so many warning signs before this 18-year-old was about to snap. Isabella`s stepfather says on the night before the gruesome killing Isabella spit on her mother`s face and warned her in an e-mail that she would, quote, "pay."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s always been really affectionate with me, and loving with me. But I don`t know what could have happened. Honestly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It got so bad Isabella`s mom even called the cops the very day she was brutally murdered. Police arrived for a welfare check hours before she was murdered. They talked to both mother and daughter, and the police documents say the cops determined there were ongoing family issues between them, but it appeared to be resolved. Wrong. Not resolved.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Adam Thompson, criminal defense attorney, radio talk show host. Did cops drop the ball by falsely concluding whatever mom and daughter were arguing about had been resolved?

ADAM THOMPSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think absolutely. You know, there`s a big problem in these domestic violence cases that come up all the time. Police seem to be called. They go to the situation to respond. And then if everything seems to be OK at that point in time, they just resolve it, and they go out and they fill out a police report saying, "Done."

But I`ve got to tell you, most of the time it isn`t done. They need to delve a little deeper. And this is not the first time we`re hearing this kind of story taking place. There`s lots of times they go, and action could be taken. Maybe remove someone from the home. Maybe go to get a restraining order. Do something.

But obviously, look what happened here. This wasn`t over, and someone is now, 79 stab wounds later, dead. This is horrific.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: J. -- J. Wyndal Gordon, attorney out of D.C., it`s always easy to play armchair quarterback and say, well, the cops should have ripped her out of the home, but yes, they respond to dozens of these scenes every day where people are arguing. They don`t have a crystal ball to know that this is the one, the one where somebody is going to do something that is unheard of: stab their mother 79 times.

J. WYNDAL GORDON: Right, I respectably disagree with -- with my brother counselor up there. The police probably did the best that they could. I believe that they did the best that they could. The mother probably told the police, "Everything is fine." They`re embarrassed that they had to call the police anyway on their daughter.

And I`ll tell you, this case to me reeks of synthetic marijuana, bath salts combined with mental illness. I mean, there is something going on with this young girl that`s more than her just having a bad day or just upset with her mother. I believe that there`s some substance that`s playing a part with her mental illness.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t agree with you more. Eric Schwartzreich, criminal defense attorney out of Miami. I always say any time cops arrest anybody for any kind of violent crime they should immediately do a drug test. Because in my experience people, unless they are psychotic, do not do things like this unless they`re on drugs or very drunk.

But you can tell when somebody is drunk because they`re slurring their words and talking like this. Sometimes you can`t tell that somebody is stoned on a pill or on some kind of violence-inducing drug, because it doesn`t affect their -- their -- how they speak.

ERIC SCHWARTZREICH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, absolutely. And this case is tragic, but not every tragedy has to have a villain. This girl is 18 years old, and that is the time where we see young children coming of age...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s the villain! Excuse me.

SCHWARTZREICH: Not necessarily. We don`t know if she had an acute psychotic episode. We don`t know if she had schizophrenia. And we don`t even know if she committed this act. If you read the probable cause affidavit, which I know you have, Jane, it says that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have it right here.

SCHWARTZREICH: ... police were called -- Well, the police were called to a garage where the body was in a car. But yet, the body was in the house. I mean, we don`t know. There`s nothing in that probable cause affidavit that talks about any physical evidence: any knife, any weapon, any DNA, any blood in that car.

And with that being said, Jane, we don`t know if she did this, if she didn`t have mental health issues. Schizophrenia, psychotic episode. Who knows she`s not necessarily a villain -- a villain.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Then we have to get help...

SCHWARTZREICH: And voluntary intoxication is a legal defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... for somebody if they start arguing with their mother at age 7. And at age 18 they slaughter their mother. We`re talking about lot of years, 11 years where somebody could have intervened if, indeed, she is psychotic and gotten her help.

On the other side, we`re going to hear from the host of Investigation Discovery`s "Dark Minds." Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The female is going to be armed with a knife. She`s supposed to be in the backyard. I don`t have a description.

She`s an 18-year-old female, mixed race. I think it might be with Asian. She`s wearing a pink tank top, shorts, one shoe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After a nearly 20-hour search for 18-year-old Isabella Guzman, witnesses snapped these pictures of police locating her less than one mile south of her home in this parking lot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what could have happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A beautiful young woman accused of stabbing her own mother 79 times and slitting her throat. Eighteen-year-old Isabella fled the scene, allegedly still clutching the knife she used to slaughter her own mom. Cops launched a massive 16-hour manhunt, and they got a tip that led them to a parking garage less than a mile from her home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We brought in a canine, started to do a search of the parking garage. We believe that Ms. Guzman saw this coming, saw the dog, was doing a search. Tried to walk out of the parking garage and ultimately was recognized by some of our officers and taken into custody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here are photos of bystanders that took photos of Isabella`s arrest.

We`ve learned that Isabella`s mother and father divorced when she was just 4 years old and that, when Isabella was just 7 years old, her mom sent her away to live with her biological father because mother and daughter could not get along, and mom and daughter have been fighting since. Eleven years of conflict.

Straight out to the Lion`s Dead and our very special guest, John Kelly, host of Investigation Discovery`s "Dark Mind," one of the nation`s leading profilers of murderers. So profile away, John.

JOHN KELLY, HOST, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY`S "DARK MIND": Thanks for having me on. Jane, this is pent-up, volcanic rage that was manifested in a homicidal disfigurement. And this is very, very important. Because you`re talking about not only did this girl try to attack and hurt and kill her mother, but she tried to disfigure her mother, as well.

When you`re stabbing at the face, at the neck, at the head, you are full of intense volcanic rage, and in this case it became homicidal rage.

And this girl, you know, is really facing some major problems. I believe she has some kind of underlying mental problem. There`s no question about it. And I believe that this is the beginning of the break.

GOMEZ: I agree, Jane. I`ve seen so many crimes like this. Crimes of passion, if you will. Somebody doesn`t just take bath salts and stab somebody 80 times, their own mother, in the face, neck and chest. As a previous guest said, there had to be some kind of underlying issue. Perhaps some kind of abuse or something that goes on...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s always blame the murder victim.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s blame the murder victim and say mom had to have been abusing her. What nonsense.

GORDON: Right. There was a precursor to this, when she hit on her mother.

KELLY: The breakdown, the meltdown started now, you don`t just kill someone and stab them 80 times and say the meltdown started after. It started before. This isn`t what a normal person does.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second! J. Wyndal Thompson [SIC], take it away.

GORDON: I think -- I think what`s going on here again is a combination of drugging and mental illness. This thing didn`t just start the day that she stabbed...

(CROSSTALK)

GORDON: She spit in her mother`s face the day before. And she had been arguing with her mother, and who knows the extent of those arguments. But I would -- I imagine that they became violent or almost violent. So there were -- there were signs that something could has happen very terrible with this young lady.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second.

SCHWARTZREICH: I`m here. I`m here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Go for it. You`re the one who thinks that she didn`t do this.

SCHWARTZREICH: I didn`t say I didn`t think she didn`t do it. I just said there`s always more than meets the eye, and no one, including your viewers or much, should jump to conclusions.

I read the affidavit in this case. And there isn`t mention of any physical evidence that links her. And she wasn`t the one in the house. There was someone else in the house at the time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her step dad was there.

SCHWARTZREICH: OK. So the point is this. Let me jump in with this theory. This took place in the same town as one of our nation`s worst massacres.

GORDON: But she sure isn`t acting like someone who`s innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s a theory I have. Let me jump in with this. This horrific moment took place just a little over a year since 24-year-old James Holmes stormed into a jam packed movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, and opened fire. Same town. Holmes killed 12 people, injured 58 others. This town is still reeling from that horrific, unthinkable mass shooting.

So I want to go back to our panelists and ask particularly Simone Bienne. Did you think something like that, living in that town in an impressionable age as a teenager could have influenced her to become violent?

BIENNE: Yes, because if you look at what you need as a teenager, what you need when you`re growing up, you need love, you need support. You need boundaries. You need all of these things.

If the teenager didn`t feel that she had that in addition to, perhaps, she was escaping with drugs, you know, whatever, sex that she was said to be having a lot, then, of course this could kind of lead to this kind of extreme behavior.

And if there`s trauma around, we know that our response to trauma is way out there. It can be out of control.

In this case, though, I mean, it`s so tragic for this town. In this case, my hunch, Jane, is that yes, let`s look behind the labels. But let`s look at what her behavior was. And if it is -- I don`t believe it is one single thing. I think, as in many cases like this. you`ll know from all of the court reporting you`ve done, it`s a combination of factors. We can`t just look at one single issue.

GOMEZ: You`re right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The rage in her eyes right there. Look at that. That is one scary young lady. She`s saying, "Look at my eyes." She`s defiant; she`s angry. Somehow it looks like she feels justified. She feels like she`s the victim.

On the other side let`s put it all together. Why did she allegedly kill her mother by stabbing her 79 times, including a slit throat? Stay right here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers went upstairs and did locate that female, who was in serious coition. That officer described it as a pretty gruesome scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just three hours before the death, Robert had talked with his daughter at the request of his ex-wife. He left thinking everything was OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I still can`t believe it. I thought that I made progress, but obviously nothing. It didn`t do nothing. I don`t know what could have happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eighteen-year-old Isabella Guzman accused of stabbing her mother 79 times, and then she gets to court and she`s mugging for the cameras and making very inappropriate facial expressions. You`ll see some of them here. We`ll show them to you on and off. Let`s see. There it is. What kind of a smirk is that? Like she`s in study hall and she`s goofing around. No, you`ve been accused of viciously slaughtering your own mom, my dear.

This reminds me a little bit of Jodi Arias. Except it`s worse. Jodi Arias stabbed him 37 times and slit his throat. This young lady stabbed her mother 79 times and slit her throat.

Put it this way: If you were to stab somebody every second for a minute, you still wouldn`t get to the number of stab wounds that this woman inflicted on her own mother.

All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought, Christine.

CALLER: Hey, Jane. Thanks for taking my call. I hope you`re doing well.

You know, I`m a mental health advocate to try to get people help, and I`ve noticed a lot of parents with younger kids, they`re in denial. They don`t think what their kids are doing means mental health; they`re just acting out.

Well, with this girl, she`s probably got two or three diagnoses, not just one. And she`s -- and a lot of the diagnoses, you`re homicidal, suicidal or self-injure. Some do it all. Some do one. I think she was homicidal, not suicidal or anything like that. But I think her homicidal`s been for a few years, and it`s built and built and built. Just like Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. On her Facebook page she lists her mom as her inspiration and says that she loves her. So that`s what make this so tragic. This was a classic love-hate relationship. She felt, as Simone Bienne nailed it: She was rejected by her mom when she was 4 when they divorced. And then at 7 when she was angry over that, the mom sent her to live with dad. Reinforcing the sense of abandonment; makes her even angrier. And resentment builds and builds for 11 years.

And then she gets into puberty. She wants to start dating guys. The mother says no. Guys are jumping through the back fence into the house. They`re going crazy. And the violence erupts. It`s a tragedy. It didn`t have to happen.

Oh. My condolences to the family.

On the other side, Lamar Odom, where is he? He`s gotten a DUI, and there`s conflicting reports. Is he in rehab or has he gone AWOL? That`s next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t like when people are talking stuff about my family. Neither one of them are acknowledging it. You know, there was a paparazzi that found them driving up the street one day. And the guy asked him about it, and he got up and broke the camera. So neither one of them will confirm that there`s an issue. There appears to be an issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lamar Odom. We`re getting reports he has checked into rehab.

KHLOE KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: I married him 30 days to the day that I met him. We`re so honest. And we signed up doing the show, and we wanted to let you guys in and us not really hide anything for you guys.

ODOM: Just doing whatever it takes to win basketball games, to erase that last season I had. I wasn`t myself.

KARDASHIAN: He just said he wanted to make sure that we lasted forever and that we got married before kind of all the chaos happened. But I think we caused more chaos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Controversy and lots of chaos tonight in the case of conflicting reports as the entire world wonders where on earth is Lamar Odom, husband of reality megastar Khloe Kardashian. "People" magazine reporting the NBA star has checked into rehab. But we are also getting word from TMZ that Lamar is not in rehab. So, which is it?

Some reports claim his famous wife Khloe doesn`t know where he is. What`s going on here? We are going to investigate the Hollywood A-list mystery. But first, let`s break it down for you.

For weeks rumors have swirled that Lamar Odom has been battling a serious drug addiction. We reached out to him and Khloe for comment. Haven`t heard back. Then over Labor Day, the 33-year-old was arrested for allegedly driving under the influence. That was reportedly the last straw for Khloe who was said to give him an ultimatum. Get help or get out. A major change of tune for the star who once said on their reality TV show, Khloe and Lamar, that she would stick by her man no matter what.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHLOE KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: I just want him to know I love the flowers and everything, but no matter what I`m always going to be there for him and I understand. I love him no matter what. He doesn`t have to buy me things. I know he loves me and I love him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: After Khloe`s alleged ultimatum, Lamar reportedly left their house on Saturday and then she Instagrammed this photo of herself out with friends. Doesn`t seem too sad. But now he may not be in rehab.

So, let`s go straight out to Lisa Guerrero, chief investigative correspondent at "Inside Edition."

What is the latest? What the heck is going on?

LISA GUERRERO, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT, INSIDE EDITION: Well, first of all, to put this in perspective, Jane, let`s look back at where Lamar came from. I have interviewed him a number of times as a sportscaster. This is a very sweet, a very talented and a very child like guy, actually, to be honest with you. He comes from a terrible tragic background. His dad was a heroin addict. His mom died of colon cancer when he was just 12-year-old.

He bounced around. He went to three different high schools. He had a very, very traumatic childhood. Fast forward to him becoming an NBA star and then marrying into, of course, the Kardashian family.

But before we start bashing the Kardashians, let me let you know something that gives you a red flag as to his recent history has been. There have been rumors for months about him taking drugs. But this isn`t the first time. In 2001 when he was a clipper he twice tested positive for drugs. He was suspended. That at the time should have led to him finding some help and the Clippers in that organization, Donald Sterling as the owner, they really should have sought help for him at the time. Instead, that was brushed under the rug. He was allowed to continue to play. He went on the play for the Lakers and then Dallas and then again the Clippers.

And so, now we find ourselves in a situation where you see this guy who seems to be in the middle of a perfect storm. He has a tragic background with an addicted father. He is at the end of a very lucrative career and he could be facing depression as he bounces around from team to team. And now, he finds all of his problems are very publicly discussed in front of an audience of millions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, because you get involved in a reality TV show. That`s what happens. When you want your privacy, don`t become a reality TV star.

Mike, I have compassion for him as a human being and as a recovering alcoholic myself with 18 years of sobriety. But don`t tell me you want your privacy when you are a reality TV star. That`s a contradiction in term.

Now, TMZ is reporting tonight that Lamar, even though people magazine says he is in rehab, they`re saying, not in rehab. So, maybe he never entered rehab, maybe he checked in and then he immediately checked out. This is a very famous face. How is it possible that nobody knows where this guy is?

Now, Lamar lives in the Tarzana, California in the San Fernando Valley with his wife Khloe Kardashian who reportedly kicked him out. So, is he in the valley? Or could he be near the Staples center? All right?

So, let`s go to the Staples center? Or could he have gotten on a flight and just taken out of town? Gone. Who knows where. The Caribbean, Europe.

Straight out to the lion`s den. Where in the world is Lamar Odom? I have to start with Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of the Hills Treatment Center. Because you like we are both in recovery. I think you have said that many times in our show. And we have a tendency to know how this goes.

HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER/CEO, THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: First of all, Jane, this is a guy with only three choices. Voluntarily go to rehab, or he has get to get arrested and forced into rehab, or he`s going to O.D. and die. And right now, I`m sure Lamar is getting loaded as we speak. He is either sleeping it off or he is on the crack pipe.

From all the reports that m getting --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well look. We can`t say that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is outrageous to say that. We don`t know that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen. I used to a drunk. God forbid somebody accuse me of being on a crack pipe when I was on a chardonnay glass. I mean, you can`t make that (INAUDIBLE).

SAMUELS: I`m a recovering addict, OK? I know what addicts do because I work with them on a daily basis. This is a hard core addict that has addiction in his family. And for God sakes, I`m glad it`s in the public because that puts more pressure on him to get help. This is all an intervention.

So if you`re out there, Lamar, I beg of you to get into dream before it`s too late for you and your family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, but, I have to say, J. Wyndal Gordon, we cannot say what this man is using. We know he got to DUI. We know there has been rumors about drugs. We haven`t confirmed any of them. But we do know, as Lisa said, that he tested positive for drugs in the past. But those are the facts we get.

J. WYNDAL GORDON, ATTORNEY: That was like 10, 12 years ago. He`s in the Kardashian family. They gave him an ultimatum to stay or leave and he left. If he is on drugs, they drove him to be on drugs.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let him finish. Go ahead.

GORDON: All the men in the Kardashian family get emasculated and become Kardashian pets. You have seen it with every man on that show. It even happened to Kanye. I saw a recent interview with Kanye. These guys are fed up. They are tired of the live out loud lifestyle and they want to do something else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one has emasculated Kanye West.

GORDON: It`s coming. I saw him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you, J. Wyndal Gordon.

Simone Bienne, I believe that these reality shows are packed with the devil. Not to say if somebody ask me to do on that I would turn them down because I would love to showcase the vegan lifestyle, of course.

ADAM THOMPSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you agree to do a reality show, your whole life is thrown out there for the public to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

THOMPSON: I don`t care what the Kardashians are saying publicly.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let the lady in pink talk. Let Simone say something.

SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: -- with Kardashian because look, whenever we have a disease like addiction we all want to blame someone because most of us know somebody who has been an addict, most of us know how difficult is this disease is.

This guy Lamar, I mean, you say that he`s escaping the Kardashian. I`m saying maybe she`s escaping the valley. It`s really hot in the valley right now.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t blame this on the Kardashians.

BIENNE: Listen, wherever he is, I think it is a good thing. Because if is on a-wall or her is going into rehab, this means that he could lead him to recovery. Because he has to hit his bottom. And if he`s in rehab, great. He`s done it on his own. The reports are saying Khloe is turning round, She -- reports are saying that Khloe is saying she doesn`t know where he is gone. Jane will know more than anybody (INAUDIBLE) that actually you have to go. Well, you have to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s finished with that Kardashian stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn`t know because she`s in the club dancing and taking Instagram pictures. That`s what she is doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the only family he`s ever known.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Kardashians?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, guys!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this.

On the other side we`re going to compare Khloe and Lamar`s marriage to Kris Humphries marriage to Kim because they have a lot in common. Were they made for TV marriages? I`m not saying that. We are asking the question.

And by the way, the Kardashians are not known for partying. Partying maybe. But not drinking or drugging. Just sober drama.

All right. Stay right there.

When we come back we are going to take your call and solve the mystery of where on earth is Lamar Odom?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never interviewed someone as tall as you. I`m humbled by your presence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about as handsome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you embarrassed to admit that you like music wise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The beach boys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You like the beach boys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We won`t talk about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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KARDASHIAN: You have to make time to relax. You have to make time to have your own life and be with your real friends. You have to make that a priority or I think you`re going to go crazy. And you`re not going to be a big person. We`re so level headed because we know time to do the same things that we did before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Lamar Odom in rehab or not?

Now, Khloe and Lamar got married just 30 days after they first met. What a whirlwind. It seems the reality romance could be head for the rocks. Just like sister, Kim`s marriage. Remember, Kim`s blow up wedding to NBA player, Kris Humphries? That was filmed for E! Keeping up with the Kardashians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is walking down the aisle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my God. Well, Khloe and Lamar have been married for about four years. Kim and Kris were only in wedded bliss for 72 days. So, of course, a lot of people accuse Kim of tying the knot for P.R. reasons. She always denied that.

Straight out to the lion`s den. Got to say two Kardashians. Two basketball star husbands. So, I`m asking the question, was Khloe and Lamar`s marriage real or was it made for TV? And I`m looking at Simone Bienne. You have a mischievous look on their face? What do you think?

BIENNE: It was not wedding. It is -- I mean, sorry. I want to vomit.

So the thing is, whether it`s for TV or is she like diluted by her fantasies of romantic love? Is she a love addict or is she a media something or else. Which you know I`m not going to say on your show, Jane. Both could be true. But how well do you know somebody after 30 days? I mean, come on. Most women at that point aren`t even at the stage sort of removing their makeup before they go to bed. You don`t know somebody,

So, the fact, if the marriage is over, it would make sense. Plus, Jane, on a sort of more serious point, if you have a co-addict and an addict, you know, a love addict, then you know there`s a good fit there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And to be in reality television you have to be a drama addict. I think that is what a pre-requisite. I`m serious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the marriage was over when it first got started.

THOMPSON: They`re looking for this. This is what they are looking for. Anyone on this panel watching, honestly thinks that they`re not going to profit off this and say, hey, we have the script for the next four segments.

Come on. They are saying this is what is about. Get the guy --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I kind of agree with you. I mean, People are watching Khloe and Lamar because they appear to be genuinely, at least they appear on the television to be genuinely in love with each other. And you know, there`s a lot of viewers who think that, actually Khloe is one of the most likable Kardashians, all right? She is funny. She is not mean or nasty. She seems compassionate. She even did a rather go naked than wear fur ad for one of my favorite groups PETA. Check this out from You Tube.

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KARDASHIAN: I decided to pose for PETA rather than donate a campaign one because I`m so honored to see than be asked. That`s an amazing group of women. And two, it`s such a powerful statement. And I really want people to know that I`m serious about the fur campaign. I just don`t think it`s necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, clearly, a good kindhearted person.

But here`s my bigger question, Lisa Guerrero. Is this scandal going to help the Kardashian brand? I mean, really, they do ride the wave of drama to profit?

GUERRERO: Yes, and frankly I really don`t care about that. I find the fact that we are talking about this man`s life and the fact that he got behind the wheel of a car when he was, you know, potentially having done drugs and he could have killed somebody that night. And I really care much less about the Kardashians than I do about this person`s life and who he is affecting.

From what I hear from my sources, his team, his friends haven`t heard from him at all. And all of the information we are hearing right now is coming from the Kardashian side. So that is troubling as well.

So, you know, again, my empathy goes to Lamar and to the people who care about him, that truly care about him. Maybe his teammates, maybe college friends of his, maybe high school friends of his, but I certainly, you know, I couldn`t care less about the Kardashians.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, everybody in America does, though. That`s why they`re talking about Lamar. Let`s be real because he is part of the Kardashian clan. More on the other side.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay back, guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Send in your pet of the day pictures. Tugboat. I want to take a ride with you! You are so handsome.

And let`s see. Princess. You are a princess. You are royalty. And I curtsy to you. You`re so beautiful.

And gizmo. He says, well, I like to play games. That`s why my name is gizmo. Let`s go out and have some fun. Oh, buddy.

Christmas is every day when you`re around. Look at you, Santa.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM KARDASHIAN, KLHOE KARDASHIAN`S SISTER: Khloe and I have been here before. Lamar has never been here. So, it is fun to bring him here and (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim Kardashian not making the news tonight, but Lamar Odom and kid sister, Khloe, is.

Where is Lamar Odom? Let`s go to the phone lines. Janice, Colorado. Your question or thought, Janice. Nice, thanks for your patience.

JANICE, CALLER, COLORADO: Hi, Jane, thank you for having me on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

JANICE: Well, my comment is just, you know, I feel so terrible. This guy is under so much pressure. And I mean, you know, at the end of the day, these are all just regular people, whether they`re on reality or whether they`re just somebody just that you work with or just know from, you know, down the street. You know, they` just regular people.

And it`s like on the last season of Khloe and Lamar, we watched his whole career fall apart. I mean, this man lost his basketball career and was traded and got hurt and, you know, couldn`t get his game back. I mean, it`s like let`s be human beings right now and get behind him and, you know, hope for a quick recovery.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Janice, you`re a very kind woman and you make a good point. He is dealing with a lot. His reality show, "Khloe and Lamar" ended. He is not currently assigned to a team. And then had all those problems over a decade ago. He got suspended from the NBA after failing a drug test and admitting to using marijuana. In 2006, his less than 7- month-old son suddenly died of sudden infant death syndrome. Two years ago, after his cousin day dies, days later, he in the back seat of the car and gets in to an accident resulting in the death of a 15 year-old.

Howard Samuels, there is a lot of tragedy in Lamar Odom`s life. Does -- could that impact his addiction?

SAMUELS: Well, without question, Jane. I mean, I think that tragedy and trauma has a lot to do with someone using drugs and alcohol. But you also have to understand, his father was a heroin addict. He comes from a family of addicts and alcoholism. And it`s a genetic disease, just like my mother was an alcoholic and I became an addict. So, you know, he --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And my dad was an alcoholic and I became an alcoholic. Yes, I agree with you.

SAMUELS: Exactly. So, you know, we have to have an understanding here. It isn`t because of the reality shows. It isn`t because he`s a big basketball player. It`s because he`s an addict! And he is not in recovery yet. And --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s hope he is.

We have got conflicting reports. TMZ says he`s not. "People" magazine says he is and we really don`t know. But it`s interesting that his people aren`t saying anything. I would think if he had people, which everybody in TV has people, I don`t really have people, but, you know, most people have people. They would s something by this point. Say yes, he is in recovery. He is getting help. That would give us closure. Because, again, he is in reality television. That invites people into your private life. They`re going to be curious. It`s a pact with the devil.

Stay right there. We have got more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Khloe is upset about the publicity and she has tweeted this. As much as I wish I was made of steel, I`m not. And then also, really hard to sit here and listen to people talk bleep about my family, bleep you and shame on you. I`m too protective for bleep.

You know what I say to that Eric Schwartz-Wright, don`t get a reality TV show then.

ERIC SCHWARTZ-WRIGHT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know, Jane. We are sitting here, I feel like the Brady bunch. I mean, I could be Greg Brady. Adam over there could be Cindy. And J. Wyndal, I think he`s going to be Marsha. Buy, you are right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not going to be a girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can be the dad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can be Marsha, though. You would make a great Marsha.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m Greg. I`m Greg Brady. But the point is well- taken. Don`t get a reality show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This doesn`t happen on the Brady bunch!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t get married to people where you parents are involved in your relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents are all involved in your relationship, it`s too much.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you`re absolutely right. I mean, there is no boundaries here. And it blurs. It blurs everything. I mean --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He hasn`t even had a chance to become a man. I mean, he`s 29 years old and he looks like a child with these people. I mean -- when --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-two.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Simone, only a couple seconds. But really --

THOMPSON: Bottom line is, Jane -- get this guy some help! He need some help.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy is next.

END